From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Making Karotechia more powerful In a message dated 4/20/00 7:42:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gerwalkveritech@juno.com writes: << Hence, the perfect mole is the Hardened Cynic, who seeks to destroy the society because its' ideals (and therefore, it ) failed them, and thus are to be despised. >> Is that TEMPEST Hardened, or EMP? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Misperceptions In a message dated 4/20/00 7:56:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, paposehn@juno.com writes: << Of general interest both politically and as good DG scenario backdrop will be the plans for really big demonstrations at the 2 party national conventions. Anybody remember 1968? >> Bobby Kennedy? Martin Luther King? The Tet Offensive? The release of '2001: A Space Odyssey'? "We can chaaaange the wo-oorld Re-arraaaaeeeaaange the wo-ooorld" When the tear gas hits, we'll see who will not be moved. Did you know that one of the largest AFEES centers in the US is in Chicago? During the "riots", troops fresh from the shit and waiting to be out-processed were issued rifles and sicced on the crowd. They were told that the paperwork would come to a grinding halt until those dirty filthy hippies and Commie war protestors were taken care of. Nudge nudge, wink wink. Nothing special about that arrangement, every training center has a platoon assigned to Civil Disturbance duty. Truth. They have a special place in morning formation, and a painted area to stack their rifles. At least in 1974 they still did. See "In A Manner That Would Shame God Himself', by Kurt Vonnegut for what happened at the Republican convention in Miami that year. Collected in 'Wampeters, Foma and Granfalloons'. Vietnam veterans lined up in perfect military formation, with buddies helping the wheelchair-bound, and marched *silently* in perfect formation, in step, to the site of the convention. Then they came to parade rest and hung their heads in unearned shame. The delegates missed it because they were inside busily nominating Richard Crookback, the Beast From Whittier. I had a ripping good time watching Harlan Ellison give his impressions on the funeral of the Trickster on 'Later with Tom Snyder'. He said the American people are entirely too forgiving of the dead. He wanted to leap in the grave and hammer a stake through his shriveled black heart, just to be sure. Sniff. Harlan always makes me sentimental and maudlin. Mark McFadden "The police are not here to create disorder. The police are here to *preserve* disorder." Mayor Daley, accidentally speaking the truth on camera. Ewige Blumenkraft, motherfucker. I am a patriot of a nation that doesn't exist. Yet. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Making Karotechia more powerful In a message dated 4/20/00 7:42:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gerwalkveritech@juno.com writes: << They say the worst kind of cynic, perhaps the only true kind, is the one who _became_ a hardened cynic, through the embitterment of being a Failed Idealist. >> Someone once defined a Conservative as a Liberal who has been mugged. Mark McFadden Extropian and regular voter of Third Parties. I've been reading a lot of Dario Fo lately. You know, that seeming chaos of Italian politics looks like a vital system that is still growing. If you look at The Big Picture. Not that I have any more recent experience than 77-78. The most common grafitti in Rome was swastikas versus hammer-and-sickles. Usually painted on a lovely walled estate in town with broken glass (wine bottles!) across the top. I figured that when the "opposite" ends of the political spectrum were agreeing on the best place to leave their mark, hilarity (and progress?) would soon ensue. How did it turn out so far, Davide? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Making Karotechia more powerful In a message dated 4/20/00 7:42:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gerwalkveritech@juno.com writes: << How to make the Karotechia more powerful? Almost everyone in America, 2000, is a potential Karotechia recruit. Maybe even everyone. Just waiting for the right time, place, and event. Everyone. :) >> Every nation is 10 missing meals away from a revolution, someone said. Incidentally, you got the Poisoned Idealist thing down. Nothing will make you more bitter than being lied to by someone or -thing you trust. ed. That's the central theme of my Howls From The Belly Of The Beast. Mark McFadden Too sweet and sour to be bitter. Perhaps a little salty, but it's all a matter of taste. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:38 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Tim POwers http://pw1.netcom.com/~cbranch/powers.html I cannot find his official page at this time but this one gives a rundown and preview of Mr. POwers' latest book. I give Tim Powers a rating overall of a Dark Young of Shub-Niggurath (My rating system is simple, imagine a group of six players, unarmed, fighting the monster mentioned. The quicker the combat is over, the higher the rating) -----Original Message----- From: James & Sarah Collins To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 10:26 PM Subject: DG: Re: Tim POwers >Do you have the URL? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mused >To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 6:32 PM >Subject: DG: Tim POwers > > >>If you get a chance, take a gander at Tim POwers' official website. It has >>previews of his new book, which is his usual mix of sorcery and history, >but >>this time it is the cold war rather than the past. >> >>I am suspecting strong DG potential material >> From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 1:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Misperceptions > I had a ripping good time watching Harlan Ellison give his > impressions on > the funeral of the Trickster on 'Later with Tom Snyder'. He said the > American > people are entirely too forgiving of the dead. He wanted to leap in > the grave > and hammer a stake through his shriveled black heart, just to be > sure. Interesting. Dan O'Neil had himself heading off to Whittier with a stake and mallet in his comic strip, "Odd Bodkins" about the same time. Phil > Sniff. Harlan always makes me sentimental and maudlin. > > Mark McFadden > "The police are not here to create disorder. The police are here to > > *preserve* disorder." > Mayor Daley, accidentally speaking the truth on camera. > Ewige Blumenkraft, motherfucker. > > I am a patriot of a nation that doesn't exist. Yet. > If Everett Wheeler and Graham were right...It Does. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 2:24 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Big fires ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Layne > Didn't one of the physicists at the TRINITY test in 1945 make a bet > that this would happen? Yup > IIRC, several other scientists accepted his bet, > then wondered how he would collect if he won? > In Hell > Probably not as powerful as an Illudium (sp?) Q-37 Explosive Space > Mod-u-lator, but nonetheless effective... > Also, real I wonder if this could happen to another planet's atmosphere? No planet in the Solar System - none of them have energetically unbalanced atmospheres that show life exists in large quantity: but in another system? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 2:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Hoyle ----- Original Message ----- From: William Timmins > Actually it isn't, but it's fun to be reminded of it. Hoyle is quite > entertaining. :) Yup. There was an old saying in astronomical circles . . . . "Prove Fred Wrong". Do that and you've discovered the truth. The Big Bang vs Steady State and so on. This wasn't the insult it sounds: Hoyle's theories may be off-the-wall loony, but they are fertile and testable. We need more & wilder ideas to understand the GOO. > Although there is a more believable method of bacterial spread in the > Mythos... the motions and travel of GOO and other races, through Gates and > various modes of travel, could quite easily have spread an initial > concentration of life throughout the known and unknown universe! > Right. And, indeed, bought life into this Universe from elsewhere. The Star-Headed Antarctic Elder Race accidentally started life on Earth - so they are our daddies. (I take it that this is what Ubblo-Sathla symbolises - though debatable, maybe.) What originated the life-system that produced them? They were alive and highly evolved 4 billion years ago, only about 4 billion years after the galaxy settled down. Could they really have evolved from scratch in that time? Isn't it more likely that _they_ in turn evolved from the parasites, droppings, debris or domesticates of the first GOO to migrate to this continuum? So the GOO are the parents of "Ubblo-Satha", and our grandparents? The Glove Gleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 3:28 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths From: Michael Layne To: > On 20 April 2000 AD, "William Timmins" pointed out > requirement for Mythos protective equipment upgrades due to newly determined > Threat capability: > > >And then it turned out the shoggoths had learned to whistle. Whistle REAL > >loud. Shoggoths - the Young Turks of the Mythos. Fascinating creatures. Whenever I read "At The Mountains Of Madness" it always strikes me that the real and most deeply poignant tragedy of the Elder Race was that they were bought down, not by war, not by GOO incursion, not by racial degeneration, but by what are basically animated bioengineered cranes. There was no Mythos element at all: it was just a technology that went wrong. (Or is that the same thing, in its deepest root? The Universe generates things like that) Of course _since_ then the Shoggoths have made alliance with Mythos entities - have become "authentic" Mythos entities. Questions:- What the hell stops the Shoggoths from eating the world? They are obviously, from an evolutionary point of view, hypercompetent. Do they have trouble breeding? In the original ATMOM, was the idea that they were kept away from the rest of the world by the Antarctic cold: and that the real threat of the Starkweather-Moore expedition was that they might Get Out? Anyone here know if Campbells "The Thing" was derived from ATMOM? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 3:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: STORYTELLING: The Sopranos (long and *ALL SPOILERS*, I reveal theending) No, I didn't write this tonight. This has been worked on over a week. Sorry it's so long. For those who don't get HBO, The Sopranos is a weekly one hour dramatic series appearing on cable, which allows it greater range in depicting the usual suspects since it's pay cable rather than network or basic. The series deals with the dramatic conflicts of the Soprano crime family, as well as the personal family of the protagonist, Tony Soprano. Let me Ob some DG up front and mention that I was going to bring up The Sopranos as a resource for dramatically depicting the crime families of The Network. I was thinking of doing some sort of DG/Sopranos crossover. Perhaps a writeup of Tony Soprano as an NPC. I was holding off until the latest cinema fest dies down and we aren't skating so near the edge of the OT abyss, but the Sopranos season finale had Many and Diverse Signs of the Invisible Hand of the Secret Chiefs, and even some list synchronicity. Also, it addresses the "mixing business and family" thread, has some input for any dream threads. But I need to give it some context, so please bear with me. "The series deals with the dramatic conflicts of the Soprano crime family, as well as the personal family of the protagonist, Tony Soprano." With a description like that and what we have come to expect from the entertainment processors, it could range from occupational comedy with a heart and message ("Kids, don't run drug syndicates.") to prime time soap opera (with tits on cable!). Instead, without getting cute with technique they present a solid story arc, character development and complex structure. The first season introduced the characters, and a Shakespearean subtext. Tony Soprano is the son of Johnny Soprano, head of the Soprano crime "family" and recently deceased. There is some wary scuffling for leadership but an agreement is reached. Johnny's brother, Tony's Uncle Junior, is made chairman of the board. Tony's mother resents being sent to a retirement home and is visited often by Uncle Junior. Tony's mother is so angry with him that she is expressing unmotherly thoughts to Uncle Junior, who, incidentally used to date her before she married Tony's father. So let's see, we've got the heir to the throne missing out on the crown, and his mother getting comfy with her dead husband's and his father's brother. An element of the show that gives it a sort of chorus is Tony's visits to his psychiatrist. Rather than being the stuff of satire, like Analyze This, or some ritual TV framing device ("What did we learn today, Tony? Look, Spock thinks it's funny, too. Arf arf.") the sessions act as goads for Tony to take action or face a situation. But instead of the typical staging of an epiphany and tears at the office, we usually see truculence and anger and leaving the session early. He works it out on his own and deals with it in his own way because in the final analysis he must keep his own counsel. There are things he cannot discuss with his therapist, and not because he's in denial. But… there is a constant subtext in the sessions that he would like to say more, and the psychiatrist would like to know more since she reads the papers. But she doesn't want to be an accessory or lose any compassion for him. He tends to roll his eyes when the ground rules are mentioned. Whether it was consciously planned or happy serendipity, the psychiatric sessions suggest Hamlet's feigned madness. Tony actually becomes a more effective mob boss because of the things he learned in therapy. Tony even discovered that the old hands used to work around his father when he was in one of his periodic "moods." The good fella that acts as a sort of consiglieri tells Tony that it wasn't bad, "once twice a year, maybe. What can you do? They didn't have Prozac back then." The first years crisis ended the season with Tony discovering his mother plotted to have him killed by Uncle Junior. Did you know that the first essay on Freudian theory in English was Ernest Jones' 'Hamlet and Oedipus'? Two arcs in the second season involved old friends. One is a friend from high school who shows up at a high stakes poker game Tony was hosting. The friend, David, gets in over his head and asks Tony for a loan. Tony explains that loans are business, David did realize what he meant by business didn't he? He explained the vig and advised that if you think carefully that you can't recall any good stories about these types of loans. He told his friend that he had a gambling problem and should seek help instead of a loan from a shylock. David insists and in no time cannot keep up the payments. In brief, Tony systematically takes everything away from David, ending in a heart to heart between friends in the store that Tony has stripped into bankruptcy. Significantly (later), he used the last of the store's credit to purchase some stolen airline tickets for a future scam. When David asks Tony why he did it, Tony replies that it's his nature, it's what he does. Just as it's David's nature to be a degenerate twisted addict who impoverished his family to feed his habit. No hard feelings, its just business. What impressed me with this arc is that they were content to show you the parable of the Scorpion and the Fox without ever mentioning it. The other arc concerned Tony's closest friend at work, Pussy; named for his enthusiasm for cunnilingus. The Feds, who were incrementally getting him closer to wearing a wire and even doing a setup, had turned Pussy. Pussy, all 300+ pounds of him, had a profound case of Hostage Syndrome and was beginning to talk to his control about their future collaborations after taking care of the Tony business. The setup was to get Tony involved in a calling card scam, which would bring in the Feds. Tony, in order to make his mother (alive and suffering from a psychosomatic stroke, relieving her of any memories of any unmaternal peccadillos) shut the fuck up during an argument, goes out to the car and returns with two airline tickets and tells her to go to Florida for awhile. As the final episode began, we see Tony and Pussy eating with a partner at an Indian restaurant. A large fish is brought to their table. Immigrants call home, they are the prime market for $20 calling cards for $7. The music was a melancholy tune with the chorus "waiting for a call from you." Tony is doing good business; his daughter is graduating. Life is good. Have a cigar. ***List synchronicity: A 'customer' of Tony's drops off a garment bag at the restaurant. The 'customer's' brother had to be killed, just business, last season. He takes the puffy bag home and interrupts his wife paying bills at the dining room table. She's a little torqued at finding out about his latest mistress. He keeps interrupting her with comments about the new suit he got, and how he hates it when air gets trapped in the garment bag. He unzips it and looks inside. "Whoah. What is that? What is that, fungus? It looks like a beard or a >merkin< or something." It was, of course, the fur coat he got for her. How many Merkins outside this list know what a merkin is? Kind of an odd reference, donchathink? *** After some 'Venus in Furs' action, Tony sleeps. Later, he is at the beach, joining his crew, waiting for someone to show up. They are all glad to see him, except for Pussy, who sits in profile and won't look at him. It is only when the brother of the fella who dropped off the coat turns his head, revealing the exit wound, that we realize that this is a dream. Stuff happens, "Hey, where's Pussy?" When he wakes up he is in a deep deep depression, mumbling "nothing. Just black. It's horrible." Then he realizes that he is physically ill and runs to vomit. He remains nauseous for much of the rest of the show, getting grayer and grayer as he endures the 'food poisoning' he must have gotten at that fuckin' Indian restaurant. The fever dreams that follow the nausea could be taken for the mysterious illnesses and visions that afflict those who become shamans when they come out the other side. Of course, armchair psychologists recognize the body externalizing something that is hard to swallow and harder to keep down. Dreams include: A member of his crew who entertains the others with his Al Pacino impressions appears and solemnly informs him that "Our true enemies have not revealed themselves yet." He enters the psychiatrist office after his obvious erection. When he sits down, his doctor crosses her legs sensuously and says "Who's your friend?" "Huh? You mean…?" "Pussy. Isn't Pussy your friend?" "Hey, pussy is always my best friend. Or do you mean, you know, Pussy?" "I don't know Tony. What do I mean?" "You now, I know this is one of those fucked-up dreams where you know you're dreaming. I've always wanted to nail you, I told you that." "Oh, Tony Tony Tony, what am I going to do with you?" Wham bam on the desk. [meanwhile, in the waking world] Doctor: What's he smiling at? Wife: He's freezing, you can hear his teeth chattering. At a fish market at the beach, a large fish on ice says in Pussy's voice, "Hey Tone. How's it goin'? "Oh, now you too? What are you going to tell me?" "Come on Tone. You know." "What?" "I been turned by the Feds. It's obvious isn't it?" "Oh, fuck this." "It's true Tone. You know it is. - Oh yeah, $3 a pound." So Tony gets out of his sick bed ("Tony, if you miss your daughters graduation because you're too sick…") and visits Pussy. He tells Pussy that he wants his advice about a boat he might buy. And it has to be now to get the price he wants. Then he has a bout of nausea and Pussy goes downstairs to wait. Tony wasn't as nauseous as he pretended, he gives the bedroom a shakedown and discovers the wire and cassettes under a false bottom in Pussy's cigar humidor. So he takes Pussy out to sea with the rest of his inner circle, and kills him and dumps him. And divests himself of any interest in the calling cards. He is safe again. Then his mother gets arrested at the airport with the stolen tickets he gave her. Trafficking in stolen airline tickets is a Federal offense. *** List synchronicity: Tony's lawyer: "If all they have on you is these 23 tickets, you'll beat this no sweat." *** But Tony knows that he was safe, but now he isn't, and he has no one to blame but himself. He knows goddam well what a stupid stunt giving his mother those stolen tickets was; and he knew it when he did it, too. Now he will be out on bail and making legal maneuvers for the rest of the foreseeable future, until whatever happens, happens. The Sword of Damocles is back, and he ruefully acknowledges that it didn't feel right when it wasn't there. Is that fucked up or what? Back at his analyst's, he is bouncy and sarcastic. She says that with all of the things that had happened recently: his mother trying to have him killed, the narrowly escaped murder charge (the sole witness inexplicably got amnesia when the Feds slipped and revealed that Tony Soprano was the suspect), being arrested in front of his daughter and her school friends because of the airline tickets, the airline tickets, and whatever this problem is with Pussy; she can feel palpable waves of sadness coming from him that he is masking with hostility. Masking as in hiding behind. "Tony, you're mother wanted you dead, she is sick. Where was your father when this was growing?" "Oh boohoohoo, poor me!" He puts his feet up on the coffeetable. "You're trying to drown it in anger, but it's not going to go away. Someday you are going to have to deal with sadness Tony." Tony, who did not answer "How was your week?" with "Killed my best friend. How was yours?", smiles to himself and leaves the office belting out "Maybe Baby, I'll Have You." *** List synchronicity: This episode came on at the crest of the last dream thread, and at the end of the 'Cinema & DG: threat or menace?' thread. *** We see his daughter's graduation and the reception afterwards. Tony is well, he is smiling and proud. David is separated from his wife and is moving to Nevada to work on a ranch, because he lived in Montana until he was 11. It's only an hour outside Vegas, with these buses…. Uncle Junior gives his niece a gift of the traditional fat envelope and best wishes. He and Tony reconciled a few shows back. Uncle Junior is sincerely sorry that he ever listened to that 'witch'. Everything else was business. Tony tells him to get out quick before his wife sees him. She doesn't understand business like they do. Calling cards are hawked by Indian sandwich-board men. The music is from the beginning, with the chorus 'waiting for a call from you'. Tony's childhood friend, who's restaurant he had torched to extricate him from his debts without telling him about it because his friend loved that family restaurant, smiles smugly at the splendid reception he has catered from his new, much more profitable restaurant that he bought with the lavish insurance settlement. The final image of Tony is a lingering static shot that embodies my principal, ahem, of the economy of statement possible in the visual arts. As the camera approaches, Tony lights a good cigar. As the camera comes to a halt with Tony full frame, he looks at us sidelong as he exhales a rich plume of smoke. The look on his face somehow restated everything we had just seen. Like that. Fade to sunset on the ocean. Would I be reading too much into an image to see the ocean at that moment as our symbolic womb, as well as a metaphor for big and mysterious and everywhere and eternal? It was here before us, it will be here after us. Watching TV or film at it's best is an interactive process, and when it clicks it can bring about a happy synergy. A whole greater than the sum of it's parts. ObDG: Tony is the PC. Pussy is another cell member. The Feds are the Bronsons. His mother is Andrea. The airline tickets are files. David is a Friendly, his catering friend is another. Uncle Junior is Alphonse. It isn't horror, but it's Delta Green, through and through. However, if his psychiatrist is Doc, Tony can keep his 'friend' to himself, fuck you very much. I'm going on much too long. I'm not pimping the show so much as giving an example of good, deep storytelling. The episodic nature of series TV has the same problem as writing roleplaying sourcebooks: you have to create a structure that can continue while being consistently interesting, and never resolving. Most of TV is a wasteland, that's Sturgeon's Law, but there can be an occasional oasis. I was lucky enough to catch the entire arc with Kevin Spacey as Mel Profit on 'Wiseguy'. Mark McFadden On the other hand, as I type this HBO is showing a Cop On The Edge, with a Model Turned Lawyer With A Dangerous Secret. Starring a Baldwin and Cathy Whatever with the mole. At least Garth Ennis had fun with it. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 3:40 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:27:34 +0100 Andy Robertson wrote: >Whenever I read "At The Mountains Of Madness" it always strikes me that the >real and most deeply poignant tragedy of the Elder Race was that they were >bought down, not by war, not by GOO incursion, not by racial degeneration, >but by what are basically animated bioengineered cranes. And I seem to remember something about how the ETs _knew_ that breeding shoggoths is dangerous. An excellent parallel with our use of fossil fuels, nukes (both for power and for blowing things up), bioweapons, and so many others. HPL, ahead of his time yet again. >What the hell stops the Shoggoths from eating the world? They are >obviously, from an evolutionary point of view, hypercompetent. Do they >have trouble breeding? Definitely something to consider. I like the idea that they CAN'T breed, but have to be created--it would be smart for the ETs to design them that way. This calls into question how they evolved intelligence--could they "evolve" without breeding? Perhaps--such highly mutable creatures could, though trial and error, "evolve" organs, including more efficient "brains." >Anyone here know if Campbells "The Thing" was derived from ATMOM? I've been told it was, by multiple sources, but I've never seen any suporting evidence. Hmm, sounds like a good lit research paper... I love a good monster thread. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 3:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shiny-san On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:15:16 EDT William Timmins wrote: >I basically postulated a bunch of more intelligent shoggoths in Antarctica. >Nothing is more dangerous than a smart, cautious Mythos critter, and they >are perfect if you have let things get too powerful (too much magic, or >firepower, or whatever) Yes. But even more fun is a smart, cautious Mythos critter with an alien, predatory sense of humor. That was where the whole "eyelids, tongue, balloon-animals" thing came from. Now, a shoggoth who isn't content just to smash his enemies, but to play with them, driving them insane and taking them one by one like a gigantic, polymorphous chainsaw killer--that will make for good gaming memories. But back to Senor Shiny, while we've mentioned several times that he's smart, keep in mind that that's "smart for a shoggoth." He is much less "clever" (in the sense of flexible and quick-witted) than a human. In fact, he can be pretty dumb sometimes. OTOH, he's got _eons_ of experience in dealing with humans, and probably knows us pretty darned well by now, probably better than any human could know humans. His arrogance and alien mindset can get in the way, though. But as a predator, I play him _wicked_ smart. And very, very patient. >And then it turned out the shoggoths had learned to whistle. Whistle REAL >loud. That is, a sonic ranged attack (most Mythos critters lack ranged >attacks, which can screw them) Considering the size of shoggoths, and that they can form their entire body into a bellows-and-whistle shape, I can definitely believe this. Hmm, I wonder how much energy it takes to start shredding flesh with sonics... Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 4:09 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: THE BLOB! (in Technocolor) More on shoggoths: Notice how the Mi-Go are using proto-shoggoth matter? Do they also have a few shoggoths up their sleeves? Or do they just have the factories on standby, to make a few "living weapons" in case they need them? How many other species in the universe create shoggoths? We know that some insane humans have been experimenting with proto-shoggoth matter--are we going to be eaten by our own creations? How many worlds are now overrun by shoggoths? Perhaps shoggoths are the oldest species in the galaxy. Perhaps most species are derived from the same process that creates shoggoths. We may be more closely related to aliens than we think. Not that I want to suggest that all species are derived from shoggoths. That would be dull. Hounds of Tindalos, most of the GOO, etc. are obviously quite different. But like us, shoggoths are quite soldily trapped in the 4-dimensional universe. He ain't heavy, he's my brother. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 4:37 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths > > Anyone here know if Campbells "The Thing" was derived from ATMOM? > > > > The Glove Cleaner > Oops, I misread that to be Carpenter's "The Thing" I think I should sleep more. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 4:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths > Anyone here know if Campbells "The Thing" was derived from ATMOM? > > > > The Glove Cleaner > "The Thing" was taken from "Who Goes There?" by John W. Campbell. i have no idea if he was inspired by the Mythos. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 5:04 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: THE BLOB! (in Technocolor) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Farnell > More on shoggoths: Notice how the Mi-Go are using proto-shoggoth matter? Do >they also have a few shoggoths up their sleeves? Or do they just have the factories >on standby, to make a few "living weapons" in case they need them? How many >other species in the universe create shoggoths? Many, I'm sure, use biological robots of various sorts. The possibilities are infinite. But these wouldn't be "shoggoths". I would guess that if the Mi-Go are using proto-shoggoth matter, they found it on Earth (or some other place Shoggoths have been taken to) rather than developed it ex nihilo. Thought - suppose one of the Mi-Go's main interests in Earth was getting hold of Elder Race biotechnology and crossing it with their own? Suppose that was THE main aim all the stuff with humans is a minor sideline? >We know that some insane humans have been experimenting with proto-shoggoth >matter--are we going to be eaten by our own creations? How many worlds are ?>now overrun by shoggoths? > I always considered that the Shoggoths, though they seem to share a common "Terrene" (or "Briahtic") DNA/protien metabolism with the Elder Race and with humanity, are the artificial products of technology, not the result of undirected natural evolution. In ATMOM the process *seems* to be: Shoggoths created by Elder Race at height of power Elder race loses skills, science Shoggoths are "bred" by Elder Race and start to change in unforseen ways. This hints that the Elder Race controlled shoggoth reproduction but could no longer fully guide it. I don't believe anyone could be stupid enough to create something like a Shoggoth without crippling it in important ways. I'd go so far as to say we *know* the Shoggoths can't breed easily - if they could they'd have taken over long ago. I would guess therefore that Shoggoth reproduction must require the active participation of some artificial technology. So, if the Blobs get smart enough to control that technology themselves???? Is that the long-term aim of Mr Shiny and co? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 5:12 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Anyone here know if Campbells "The Thing" was derived from ATMOM? > > I should have said 'Don A. Stewart's "Who Goes There"', of course. > > > > > > The Glove Cleaner > > > Oops, I misread that to be Carpenter's "The Thing" > > I think I should sleep more. > You mean you ain't asleep right now? :-) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 5:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths At 04:34 AM 4/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >"The Thing" was taken from "Who Goes There?" by John W. Campbell. i >have no idea if he was inspired by the Mythos. > > Carpenter's the Thing was of course a remake of the Thing from Another World, the black and white movie which gave us the phrase ``Watch the Skies''. The original is a great movie too, even if it did have a walking vegetable man for a monster. JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 5:33 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Making Karotechia more powerful In a message dated 4/20/00 10:16:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: << Nothing will make you more bitter than being lied to by someone or -thing you trust. ed. >> Someone remarked offline that that is an odd sentiment to be expressed by someone who aspires to create and track an Urban Myth and regularly plays fast and loose with the picky picky truth. Excuse me a moment, I need to get this out of the way. Dexter. Sinister. Tenderize him as only you can. Bert, Ernie; get creative. Kink away. You, the dwarf in the butler suit who's here every week... look, this is getting silly.... you're going to be Bobo from now on, okay? Oh no, wait...you're Point Five. Get it? Number 2, Number 1, you're here every week so you must be importatnt - you're, uh, vertically challenged. Too hip for the room? Anyway, don't speak, especially backwards. And no dancing. Where was I? Oh yeah, Point-Five, prepare the piranhas. You have our gratitude. Anyhow, the problem is the medium, see. In real life you can usually tell I'm goofing because I waggle my eyebrows. Also, you can tell I'm about to charge the boat because I wiggle my ears. "And on our left you can see the mysterious lost Schweitzer Falls, named of course after the world famous Doctor Albert... Falls." Mark McFadden Man, I miss the old Jungle Cruise in the 60s and 70s, before they had to stick to the script and all the 'pilots' were aspiring standup comics trying out new material. "Mem-reeeeees, like a fuckin' Streisand flick" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 5:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths In a message dated 4/21/00 1:28:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << What the hell stops the Shoggoths from eating the world? They are obviously, from an evolutionary point of view, hypercompetent. Do they have trouble breeding? >> I assume they never stop growing and can fission if they choose to. This would be in line with an efficiently designed biological servitor. Parthenogenetically reproducing to keep replacements identical and modular. It's hard to think of such freeform creatures as modular, perhaps the ET wished to maintain a consistent mental profile. Whoops, musta picked the wrong traits. I like to think that the really large original shoggoths went to the ocean deeps and grew without restrictions, thinking new kinds of thoughts as they got too big for centralized control, and discovering new abilities in the pressure and cold. I once speculated that Deep Ones might be biological recon systems created with captured ET equipment. They are manipulators and defense and capable of living in both the water and air. They leave self-propagating probe engines in the surface dwellers which replicate through the 'Innsmouth taint' to create probes that live on the surface as a surface dweller. Then gradually change into the return phase to swim down to the shoggoth, or a tendril reaching into a Deep One city, to be absorbed and assimilated with memories of intel about the surface. Since there is a dearth of details of Deep One culture AFAIK, and gods like Dagon (a human deity) and Mother Hydra (what the fuck?) sound like something made up without much thought, Deep Ones have bugged me for awhile. The environment is not conducive to high tech as we know it. Most of us postulate biological engineering. Sound familiar? Of course, most of us still balk at the leaps of intuition it would take to design the biological tools to make the biological tools to make the biological tools that built the cities and technology without fire or most of it's products. And electronics? shudder. I'm trying to figure out what you would observe down there that would imply the existence of electricity. Oh, electric eels and such. Right. I'm still wondering how to build a gene splicer without using electricity so you can make the bio-tools to construct a gene splicer. But what if the tech was *given* to them, along with an approved limited slave culture and an official religion. And pure metal from deep plumes, ready for nano-assembly. For the most part, even if Dr. Emerson cracks the DO code, it won't explain why all of this just 'magically' works, how a creature evolved in and for another environment from what is assumed to be separate stock can interbreed with us, something horses and donkeys have trouble doing past one generation. This was no boating accident, this was a design. I think the bipedal humanoids were engineered from the parthenogenetically reproducing Rosie the Primate Riveters I postulated in another post. The ET modular bio-tool servitor race made from Moonwatcher and Co.. All female, self-replicating. Perhaps the survivors in an Oklahoma outpost were the ancestors of the K'n-yan. Self-replicating clones could be prone to telepathy. Cloning is a form of immortality. But real immortality is possible with preserved ET equipment and no party-pooping ET governors built into the design. And destroying the idols of Tsathoggua because they discovered the true nature of his worship? Puh-leeze, not while still dabbling with Yig and Tulu and Hastur and Shub-Niggurath and Ghatanothoa who knew Nug who begat Yeb and lo she bore him in tears an oak tree, which stood for three days and then fell over - like a bridge, and beneath this bridge there came a catfish, and he was swimming, and he was the biggest she had ever seen.... where was I? Anyhow, maybe they just didn't like Tsathoggua's looks after they learned something else. My tuppence. Mark McFadden You too can be an instant Mythos scholar with the Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, available through all the finer sources. Shit, I didn't even change the order of the gods. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths / nanotech / DO ----- Original Message ----- From: > Of course, most of us still balk at the leaps of intuition it would take to > design the biological tools to make the biological tools to make the > biological tools that built the cities and technology without fire or most of > it's products. I'm sure that what we call biological technology and what we speculate about as nanotechnology fuse a little way down the road we are stumbling along now. "Machines whose parts are individual molecules" describes _both_ living things _and_ nanotechnology, exactly. Conclusion: when you can do both, you discover there is no difference, or at least no boundary. When asked about how technology would go in future, Feynman said "there is plenty of room at the bottom". I'm pretty sure that our current "macrotech" is a short-term fudge which more masterly races drop quickly. BioNanotech is likely to be universal. > And electronics? shudder. I'm trying to figure out what you > would observe down there that would imply the existence of electricity. Who needs electronics? Biological data processing is much better - when you can tailor it. Imagine a missile as smart as a dog, with sensors as good as an eagle's eyes and target discrimination at the same level. > But what if the tech was *given* to them, along with an approved limited > slave culture and an official religion. Despite what I've said above, I imagine the DO got their biotech from the leavings of the Elder Race. If they were masters of it, they'd have taken over long ago. So maybe they have fudged up enough biotech to breed Shoggoths, but not enough to create similar entities out of nothing. That sounds about right. Their skills are pretty modest. > And pure metal from deep plumes, ready for nano-assembly. > Who needs metal? Especially if you are wet all the time. Composites are better - like bone. Yes, the DO do use gold, but that's about the only metal that wouldn't rust in short order. I bet they get it from the deep plumes. > For the most part, even if Dr. Emerson cracks the DO code, it won't explain > why all of this just 'magically' works, how a creature evolved in and for > another environment from what is assumed to be separate stock can interbreed > with us, something horses and donkeys have trouble doing past one generation. > This was no boating accident, this was a design. > > I think the bipedal humanoids were engineered from the parthenogenetically > reproducing Rosie the Primate Riveters I postulated in another post. I don't want to hamper Dr Emerson's work with unneccssary crosstalk, but I will point out that there's an obvious third possibility: that the DO are a transformed race of human or nearly-human hominids. Perhaps they are what happened when some ancient surviving Elder Race biotech genetic reprogramming artifact glommed on to an unfortunate set of Java Men walking down by the beach, or even earlier, some of those "aquatic apes". This would explain - Their ability to interbreed with hom sap Their surprising desire to interbreed. Maybe, though their culture hides it, their genetically programmed standards for sexual attractiveness remain pretty close to standard human. There's some good stuff in the Ice Cave on this, as I'm sure you know, but I don't think this exact point has come up. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:05 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: New DS pictures On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, William Timmins wrote: > The explosion, as per report ADF-NASA/MJ-21-1999-12-20, was likely > underground. A smuggled report from MJ indicates that the components of the > explosion are a mystery. Just how MJ was able to analyse the material > components released by an explosion on Mars, from Earth, warrants further DG > investigation. The easiest way is by simple spectography. Either of the Mars satellites would be be equipped with such a device. Telescopes on Earth or Earth orbit would also be able to pick up the chemical composition of such an explosion. That's why I submit that the Cydonian Flash occured while Mars was facing away from Earth. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Shoggoths Mark wrote: I like to think that the really large original shoggoths went to the ocean deeps and grew without restrictions, thinking new kinds of thoughts as they got too big for centralized control, and discovering new abilities in the pressure and cold. Combining this with the details in "The Call of Cthulhu" about water blocking telepathic impulses, one wonders what the Elder Things were thinking when they decided "Oh, let's allow our shoggoths to evolve undirected in the water. Better still, let's join them down there, just in case they run out of Tetra Penguin Flakes." Anybody want to comment on how common liquid water is in the cosmos? It is curious how both Cthulhu (to some extent) and the Elder Things are brought down by the effects of it. >Perhaps the survivors in an Oklahoma outpost were the ancestors of >the >K'n-yan. The natives of K'n-yan do have legends of being brought to Earth by Cthulhu. And Ramsey Campbell's "The Room in the Tower" gives an extraterrestrial origin to Deep Ones. Which would shoot my theory about GOOs' unfamiliarity with liquid water to hell, damn it, unless the Deep Ones weren't always aquatic beings. I could see Cthulhu's dreams reshaping the development of the Deep Ones ("Now listen. If I'm trapped underwater for vigintillions of aeons, I want you guys to grow gills, OK?"). And IIRC, Lovecraft toyed with the idea of "the Innsmouth Look" being atavism, in much the same way that some people backslide into ghoulism. >And destroying the idols of Tsathoggua because they discovered the >true >nature of his worship? Well, in light of the events towards the end of "The Mound," perhaps the natives of K'n-yan got freaked out by the whole formless thing. Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The noble skill of Lying You know, Purple Kat, the true Eurocontinental champion is required to represent not only all of Europe, but all continents. I think that even includes Australia, although we all know that Australia isn't a "real" continent... Purple Kat, you're Australian for Beer: > Of course the subject IS 'The Noble Skill of Lying' so of course The Man in > Black is lying! I wasn't lying. I was advocating a lifestyle choice. That doesn't mean that *I* prefer that particular lifestyle. It's just a simple expounding upon a valid and worthwhile choice of abstinence over degenerate rutting, breeding and mating. The only tru7h is that our friend Daniel "I refuse to use toilet paper" Harms is celibate as a Skoptsi Lemur (TM) deep in the opposite of heat. The Man in Black is : your Eurocontinental Champion. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 7:52 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Battleship deckplans On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/20/00 5:47:05 PM Central Daylight Time, > theherald@hotmail.com writes: > >> If we were in this for the money, we'd be working for S.P.E.C.T.R.E > Sure, I've heard this name before, but what does it stand for? > For that matter, what does the Bad Guy's S.P.I.D.E.R. (I believe) in > T.H.U.N.D.E.R Agents comics stand for? > -Ken- The Special Executive for Counter-intelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. Devised by Ernst Stavro Blofeld, this organization lasted from sometime in the late fifties/early sixties to 1967 when British Intelligence put an end to it's operations. As for S.P.I.D.E.R. The exact nature of this organization is unknown. A recent conversation with Selina Kyle (Catwoman 49) indicates that S.P.I.D.E.R. is still conducting acts of violence and terrorism in the modern era. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:07 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > Do that and you've discovered the truth. The Big Bang vs Steady State and > so on. The only tru7h is that there is no tru7h. > This wasn't the insult it sounds: Hoyle's theories may be off-the-wall > loony, but they are fertile and testable. We need more & wilder ideas to > understand the GOO. And this is where it all falls apart. Humanity cannot understand the Great Old Ones. The fallible nature of our perceptions make us assume that science is tru7h, but no amount of science will ever be able to explain anything. There will always be more to understand or an alternate but just as valid explanation. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Seven is darker" - Leela, UESC Marathon http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:26 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shiny-san On 21 Apr 2000, Dave Farnell wrote: > But back to Senor Shiny, while we've mentioned several times that he's > smart, keep in mind that that's "smart for a shoggoth." He is much less > "clever" (in the sense of flexible and quick-witted) than a human. In > fact, he can be pretty dumb sometimes. OTOH, he's got _eons_ of > experience in dealing with humans, and probably knows us pretty darned > well by now, probably better than any human could know humans. His > arrogance and alien mindset can get in the way, though. But as a > predator, I play him _wicked_ smart. And very, very patient. This is actually an alteration of the actual character. Shiny only has an INT of 13, so he's not all that brilliant. His Psychology of 15%, Persuade of 30%, and History of 35% don't exactly convey too much understanding of good ol' homo sapiens sapiens either. As humans cannot comprehend the alien, so too the alien cannot understand the human - all things being equal. He mostly survives by smashing the pulp out of folks who foil his schemes, and starting over. Immortality has it's advantages. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:46 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: THE BLOB! (in Technocolor) On 21 Apr 2000, Dave Farnell wrote: > More on shoggoths: Notice how the Mi-Go are using proto-shoggoth matter? > Do they also have a few shoggoths up their sleeves? Or do they just have > the factories on standby, to make a few "living weapons" in case they > need them? I've noticed this before (on the list too in fact). My theory is that this is simply the Mi-Go version of Operation Paperclip, stealing a defeated enemy's tech after a war. Remember, the ET's had a war with both Cthulhu & Co. and the Mi-Go. Now that the ET's on Earth are toast, who uses the Shoggoths? Deep Ones and Mi-Go. It seems that the Mi-Go, with their more tech oriented culture and linear thought streams, have taken longer to assimilate protomatter tech. Meanwhile, the Deep Ones simply use Shoggoths and don't worry about making Groversville's and humanoid Splatters like Hope. > How many other species in the universe create shoggoths? Note that Shoggoths are spawned from Ubbo-Sathla, which leads me to believe that the Mi-Go are active in Antarctica. They could even be mining the Mountains of Madness, although Spheres of Nath seem to preclude that possibility. In fact, I ran a mini-campaign that involved NWI's vast industrial project of oil tankers moving protomatter from the Karotechia's long abandoned base (Point 103). This replay of AKTION EISSCHLOSS combined with the Mi-Go's Gate pipeline ended poorly, as the oil tanker spilled it's load of protomatter into the bay of a small Pacific atoll containing an experimental ecosystem research base. At least it didn't rain protomatter like when the Tanker truck exploded... only a small tidal wave. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:45 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shiny-san >From: "Dave Farnell" >Yes. But even more fun is a smart, cautious Mythos critter with an alien, >predatory sense of humor. That was where the whole "eyelids, tongue, >balloon-animals" thing came from. Now, a shoggoth who isn't content just to >smash his enemies, but to play with them, driving them insane and taking >them one by one like a gigantic, polymorphous chainsaw killer--that will >make for good gaming memories. Heh. Odd you mention that... I neglected to mention some aspects. The shoggoths on the Antarctica adventure definately played with the players... never just wiping them out, but picking them off and haunting them. Backstory... the players were on the trail of a Nazi expedition to Antarctica. The Nazis had found (via psychics and tomes) hints of something Interesting there. The Nazi expedition, alas, had been wiped out by Shoggoths. So, as one player was snowmobiliing it, he heard a haunting voice calling out 'bitte.. bitte..' over and over (shoggoths having fun) Later, in labyrinths of ice tunnels, they find a cavern with a mosaic... a mosaic consisting of things resembling huge starfish of leather (elder race heads) and many many many eyeballs with blue or brown irises, in intricate patterns and whorls, frozen in transparent ice. Looking closer, the ice seemed to resemble smooth faces and other less identifiable shapes... needless to say, this shoggoth art project caused some SAN loss.. -=Will Oh, and it turned out the Nazis had uncovered a vehicle from the Endtimes, buried in the ice. A UFO from the future... the players eventually stumbled on a more complete specimen being examined in Russia by Karotechia agents. And protected by vaults of halon and zombie nazis. But that's for another day... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shiny-san In a message dated 4/21/00 1:54:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, superdave@disinfo.net writes: << But back to Senor Shiny, while we've mentioned several times that he's smart, keep in mind that that's "smart for a shoggoth." He is much less "clever" (in the sense of flexible and quick-witted) than a human. In fact, he can be pretty dumb sometimes. OTOH, he's got _eons_ of experience in dealing with humans, and probably knows us pretty darned well by now, probably better than any human could know humans. >> I figure Mr. Shiny deals with humans the way that Deep Blue plays chess. Deep Blue finally won when it was programmed to specifically analyze it's opponent's previous games when calculating the next move and predicting reactions. Shiny has an ancient database but some uninspired search routines. He wasn't even bright enough to hang on to some ET facilities. Poppin' Fresh Marshmellow Man. Neener neener neener. But that whole Kingpin-turning-into-the-Blob thing is kewl. Sumo-boy. Mark McFadden But thought the proto-shoggoth in The Asylum rocked. They chose not to speculate on the forms sex with his (assistant? secretary?) took. Eeeeyeeeewwwww. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The B&W Thing (spoilers. Oh come ON, there has to be a statute oflimitations) In a message dated 4/21/00 3:15:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, j.turner@irishnews.com writes: << Carpenter's the Thing was of course a remake of the Thing from Another World, the black and white movie which gave us the phrase ``Watch the Skies''. The original is a great movie too, even if it did have a walking vegetable man for a monster. >> You take that back about Marshal Dillonion. I love that movie. It is so quintessentially 50s without realizing it. So the Alpha Male and the scientist\secretary lady, *a lone woman inexplicably stationed in an ice station*, have this sort of duty-crossed 'thing' that the fast-talking crew cultivate through rat-tat-tat badinage. WHAT are you going to do, Skipper? What ARE you going to do, Skipper? What are YOU going to do, Skipper? What are you GOING to do, Skipper? What are you going to DO, Skipper? Yeah, what are going to do, uh, SKIPPER? It was made for MST3K, although it is often too good in it's effect to sustain the proper affectionate contempt.I have been considering replacing the dialogue completely with my own in the style of the LA Connection. Then, when they discover the UFO buried in the ice, they accidentally trigger it's self-immolation when they decide to clear the ice with some thermite. No one comments on the splendid performance of our Armed Forces thus far. Couldn't be helped, alien technology. Our bad. Whoops. Where's that alien that through sheer good luck had been frozen *away* from the valuable techint? Damn those crafty aliens with their booby-trap metal that burns. How could an aircraft crew be expected to know about metals like magnesium? So they keep it frozen out in a shed with a guard, who throws an *electric blanket* over it because it gave him the creeps. Must have been descended from Transylvanian peasants. The head scientist looks like Lenin in a yachting outfit. He apparently doesn't sleep due to his pill intake and speaks glowingly of a sexless race free of these sticky distractions, a race of pure emotionless intellect, what things they could show us since thay are already so superior. Of course they are peaceful, they're smarter than me, it's axiomatic. The comedy wise-cracking relief, and the only critical voice other than the mad scientist is the journalist, Scotty. Looks like Dennis the Menace's dad losing his hair. Always making unhelpful comments about the military and demanding to be a witness to, you know, military stuff with guns and firebombs and stuff. You know what the press is like. Can't follow a simple order without making some wiseass crack. Good thing the storm has knocked out communications or he'd be demanding to tell the whole world about our secret military discovery and talking about frozen plant guys and other critical strategic secrets. Don't you just hate those guys? Always coming on like they're smarter than us working stiffs. But we know better, we know that patriotism as a tactic for survival demands compromise and sacrificing some of the more frivolous "rights" for the greater good. As defined by cooler heads than these yapping know-it-alls with their trick questions. Objection Your Honor, leading the evidence and ranting. Sustained. Shit. Do not get me wrong. I really and truly love this film on several levels, and several of them admire the craft. It works. You've got to do some mental time travelling to appreciate the traditional sci-fi horror form so capably expressed, and some insight into the period helps. Just think Joe McCarthy and Godless Communism. What we see now is not what they saw then. ObDG: hrrruumppphhhh. Ob my ass, this thing has DG all over it. Ditch the love interest. I'd ditch the UFO and make the Thing a frozen Shoggoth in a humanoid form. Keep the 50s, it must have been a weird time for DG. Imagine being one of J. Edgar's boys, ex-OSS DG, and picking up on the zeitgeist but knowing what he knows. I could see some coming on like MIB, essentially ordering citizens to keep their yaps shut or else. So say a military mapping aircrew based from a station housing scientists. A FBI man undercover keeping an eye on the head scientist for his daytime politics and recognizing signs of Mythos dabbling from his DG days. Could provide meeting adventure for a later cell of DG and Friendlies. Scientists doing a year or so on the ice, studying things besides arctic stuff. Astronomy, biology, meteorology, dog handler, doctor, geologist, cartographer. Pilot, radioman, photographer, engineer. Mark McFadden Watching the skies. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: THE BLOB! (in Technocolor) In a message dated 4/21/00 3:04:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << would guess that if the Mi-Go are using proto-shoggoth matter, they found it on Earth (or some other place Shoggoths have been taken to) rather than developed it ex nihilo. >> If you postulate some common universal knowledgebase like the Macrosope broadcasts or the Uplift Libraries, shoggoths could be a common design for those discovering the wonderful world of biotech. Which would supply a reason for the ETs knowing that creating shoggoths was dangerous before they created shoggoths. Hastur wave with tutorials? Mark McFadden Can tell already it's going to be one of those weekends. You didn't have *plans for Easter* did you, Davide? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: THE BLOB! (in Technocolor) In a message dated 4/21/00 3:04:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << I'd go so far as to say we *know* the Shoggoths can't breed easily - if they could they'd have taken over long ago. I would guess therefore that Shoggoth reproduction must require the active participation of some artificial technology. >> Yeah, skip the fission. I like this better. Also, if Shoggoths are effectively immortal, why would they dink with their own DNA? You do that for better kids, not to improve yourself. As if any Shoggoth thinks it needs improving. Of course, then we would have a race of immortals among us, cautiously cooperating but knowing full well that in the end, There can be only one! (big one on the bottom of the ocean after it eats all the others) Mark McFadden Duncan MacBlob, the Lowlander MacBlob!!! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:09 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: THE BLOB! (in Technocolor) On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > I would guess that if the Mi-Go are using proto-shoggoth matter, they found > it on Earth (or some other place Shoggoths have been taken to) rather than > developed it ex nihilo. They just scooped up some of Ubbo-Sathla. Yum! > Thought - suppose one of the Mi-Go's main interests in Earth was getting > hold of Elder Race biotechnology and crossing it with their own? > > Suppose that was THE main aim all the stuff with humans is a minor > sideline? Perhaps all their mucking about with humanity is to figure out how to create sentience (and thus POW) out of protomatter. Consider a few things: Shub-Niggurath is *required* for Mi-Go reproduction. Humans (based on protomatter) derive from Ubbo-Sathla. It would seem that if neotissue could resolve into Mi-Go life, then the Mi-Go would gain more control over their biology, and a measure of freedom from Shub-Niggurath. Of course they would only be trading one Outer God for another, but at least they would have a choice. This sounds like an excellent motive for continued investigation of homo sapiens sapiens on a world long since deprived of it's valuable extradimensional mineral resources, and plunging headlong into the ENDTIMES. I would presume that once the Mi-Go solve their little problem, they will evacuate immediately. The exact nature of this evac will not be a good thing, since all Gates will close, all structures will have to be destroyed, and most worker drones should be altered into warriors or flat out terminated. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:58 AM To: The Delta Green List Subject: DG: The FBI & FOI Greetings This courtesy of Steve Jackson's "Daily Illuminator" mailing: http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm Apologies if it has been sent to the list before. Basically the FBI site now has a central page from which you can download pdf copies of some of the most commonly sought documents. DG relevant subgects include Majestic-12, Cattle Mutilations, Project Blue Book, UFOs. Other material of interest refers to Tesla, policy papers on "surreptitious entries", POW/MIA soldiers in SE Asia etc etc Enjoy -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:24 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths / nanotech / DO On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > > But what if the tech was *given* to them, along with an approved limited > > slave culture and an official religion. > > Despite what I've said above, I imagine the DO got their biotech from the > leavings of the Elder Race. If they were masters of it, they'd have taken > over long ago. So maybe they have fudged up enough biotech to breed > Shoggoths, but not enough to create similar entities out of nothing. That > sounds about right. Their skills are pretty modest. I concur, they probably just took up what was left over and never developed it out of both immortal cultural apathy and witnessing the fate of the Elder Things. > I don't want to hamper Dr Emerson's work with unneccssary crosstalk, but I > will point out that there's an obvious third possibility: that the DO are a > transformed race of human or nearly-human hominids. This is my personal notion. (See Aquatic Ape Theory) > Perhaps they are what happened when some ancient surviving Elder Race > biotech genetic reprogramming artifact glommed on to an unfortunate set of > Java Men walking down by the beach, or even earlier, some of those "aquatic > apes". I was thinking that Starspawn directed primate evolution via Telepathy. "Come to the sea..." "You like to eat Fish." "How about a long swim?" > Their surprising desire to interbreed. Maybe, though their culture > hides it, their genetically programmed standards for sexual attractiveness > remain pretty close to standard human. I thought it was because that when Deep One population dropped below a certain level due to war, natural disaster or because they were planning for war, Deep Ones needed to breed with humans because Deep One females have this annoying tendency to eat their young in order to keep the immortal population stable. Humans don't do that sort of thing too often. The Man in Black is : eating his young. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shiny-san On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > He wasn't even bright enough to hang on to some ET facilities. Sez you. I have evidence to the contrary, temporary ally number six. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Waaaaaaay off topic The Sopranos In a message dated 4/21/00 3:43:42 AM Central Daylight Time, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: << Would I be reading too much into an image to see the ocean at that moment as our symbolic womb, as well as a metaphor for big and mysterious and everywhere and eternal? It was here before us, it will be here after us. Watching TV or film at it's best is an interactive process, and when it clicks it can bring about a happy synergy. A whole greater than the sum of it's parts. >> I thought the ending of the episode showed Tony's-happy-ending-type footage cut together with an assortment of Tony's-assorted-scams footage to provide obvious contrast. The shot of the ocean at the end was just another shot of Tony's bizworld-i.e:Pussy's new home. -Ken- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 10:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Shoggoths At 11:11 AM 4/21/00 +0100, you wrote: >At 04:34 AM 4/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >>"The Thing" was taken from "Who Goes There?" by John W. Campbell. i >>have no idea if he was inspired by the Mythos. >> >> > >Carpenter's the Thing was of course a remake of the Thing from Another >World, the black and white movie which gave us the phrase ``Watch the >Skies''. The original is a great movie too, even if it did have a walking >vegetable man for a monster. > >JT > "Lurker in the Lobby", published by another front company of DG, explores this concept. An interview with John Carpenter reveals that he did consider Lovecraft to be an influence. The opinion of the authours was that "At the Mountains of Madness" did inspire Campbell to write "Who Goes There?". ** Shilling for the Man ** ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net