From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 2:41 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: > So skip all of that, and focus on what they do see and feel. Starting from > zero and opposable thumbs, what directions does the tech urge follow from the > evidence they would see? Basics, basics, the man sez. ---- **** ---- Tech is about 1) war 2) food 3) shelter. DO don't need 3). How do they handle 1) and 2)? -You start by domesticating animals. That is a basic technology. -If you live down low, you domesticate squids, which are very common and about as brainy as parrots -If you live near the surface, cetacea. -If that works you have food animals and maybe war beasts. ---- **** ---- How do you get killing tools? Rock can be splintered and split even underwater. Seashells are excellent cutting tools - abalone shell FX. ---- **** ---- How do they go on from that? If they have artifacts, they need places to store them and hide them from thieves. So they build. They cement rocks together by controlling the precipitation of silica out of the deep water - like Davide said. A guess. Low temperature "precipitation technology" is for them what a high temperature "melt technology" is for us. They tailor materiels by mimicing the way deep sea animals build hard internal structures: 1) set up an organic matrix of protein 2) precipitate crystals of silica or calcite within it. A lot can be done by controlling the chemistry of water, tipping it from one equilibrium to another. Using only organic feedstuffs, you could make materials as good as glass fibre this way. > > Mark McFadden > Of course a slave race using 'liberated' tech adapted to the environment by > the (former?) masters is another thing entirely We *know* they use Shoggoths - but maybe that is recent. Wasn't "the Shadow Over Innsmouth" a sequel to "At The Mountains Of Madness"? The DO were using Shoggoths at Innsmouth But perhaps the Shoggoths were the very *first* to escape from the Ice: Perhaps it's the arrival of these newly liberated Shoggoths after the Starkweather-Moore expedition that caused the upsurge in DO activity? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 2:43 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle In a message dated 4/22/00 2:29:50 PM Central Daylight Time, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: << Mark McFadden Not saying that we are *not* doomed, just noting that it's the duty of all prisoners to continue escape attempts. >> Exactly! The average agent has compartmented knowledge of the Mythos anyway, how can we assume he knows how hopeless the situation is. Why should you trust the opinions of madmen about what is hopeless anyway, maybe hopelessness drove them mad. It is not in the human mindset to long admit hopelessness anyway - we cull from the herd the hopeless - or they cull themselves. It is the nature of the conspiracy to work toward a goal, it is not the nature of the conspiracy to consider the goal unattainable. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 2:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Prisoner >From the Internet Movie Database (www.imdb.com Full Cast and Crew for Prisoner, The (2000) Directed by Simon West (I) ['Con Air', 'The Generals Daughter'] Writing credits Lawrence Konner & Mark Rosenthal (I) ['Mighty Joe Young', 'Mercury Rising', ST-IV: The Undiscovered Country'] Christopher McQuarrie ['The Usual Suspects'] Produced by Patrick McGoohan (executive) Barry Mendel ['The Sixth Sense', 'Rushmore'] Well, West can make it look good, McQuarrie is a good sign, but McGoohan keeping control of his creation is the best news. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle The great MiB wrote: >> Because humanity's extinction is already engraved in sandstone. It's >> not a matter of species war, but of inevitability. On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Written by who? I do not acknowledge their authority and suspect their > motives. Well the former quote was me, and the latter part was you, but mostly the concept of inevitable species extinction was HPL. This is Call of Cthulhu you know. HPL simply extended the mortality of individuals unto civilization and entire species. > Mark McFadden > Not saying that we are *not* doomed, just noting that it's the duty of all > prisoners to continue escape attempts. Well, that's the point of Delta Green. It sez so right in the book. We're doomed, but we fight anyway. It's a good a way of spending the short time we have left as any other I suppose. The Man in Black is : doomed. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology In a message dated 4/22/00 12:45:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << The DO were using Shoggoths at Innsmouth But perhaps the Shoggoths were the very *first* to escape from the Ice: >> And maybe Shoggoths were using DO. Someone mentioned something about that. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology In a message dated 4/22/00 12:45:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << They cement rocks together by controlling the precipitation of silica out of the deep water - like Davide said.>> Ah ah. You're running again. Baby steps, please. They precipitate using what tools? And before you say Shoggoths, what's in it for them? Or, if the severely limited material-refining Shoggoths are used, how did the DO get them and learn to control them? <> Did they use chipped stone and sharp seashells to make this tech? <> So we have an idea of what their Industrial Revolution would look like, but what was the killer app that kicked it off? In Harry Harrison's 'West of Eden' trilogy, he had the same problem. He had all kinds of cool biotech for the reptilian tool users to use, but the evolution of the tech was glossed over. The best he offered was an aboriginal colony using hand-help poisonous creatures as weapons. Biped lizards chasing each other with scorpions and sea urchins; to living cities, gun creatures, microscope creatures and fleets of cargo ichthyosaurs, but nothing in between. So before we precipitate, let's look at organic glue from indigenous creatures that could be used. Perhaps, the migratory hunter stage was replaced with a gatherer stage using balleen to sieve plankton. Taking advantage of a stable current would make a city a good idea. Orca would make great sheepdogs. What would the DO have to offer an Orca? Not scrap bones around the campfire, but something else might be arranged. Maybe DO didn't evolve their tech underwater, they *are* amphibious after all. Adaption is easier than creation. Merovingians? Cagot? Mark McFadden Gonna make Dagon significant someway or another. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > Exactly! The average agent has compartmented knowledge of the Mythos anyway, > how can we assume he knows how hopeless the situation is. You are not following this thread. The point is that IN THE MYTHOS (as opposed to in the game) humanity is doomed. DOOOMED DOOOOOMED~! I say! The Man in Black is : moving to Latveria. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Prisoner On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > ST-IV: The Undiscovered Country'] The Trekkie in me crys out that "The Undiscovered Country" was part VI and not IV. STIV was the one with the Whales, and the Nucleear Wessels, and Transparant Aluminum on the Mac. > Well, West can make it look good, McQuarrie is a good sign, but McGoohan > keeping control of his creation is the best news. Not really, McGoohan might screw it up due to micromanagement or simply falling behind the times. It could happen! The Man in Black is : zero. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > Wasn't "the Shadow Over Innsmouth" a sequel to "At The Mountains Of > Madness"? No, you are stupid and wrong. So goto hell, you goto Hell and you DIE~! :P Innsmouth was 1928, Mountains was 1930-1931. The info can be found in the main rulebook, EC, and sundry others. As for the possibility of modern shoggoth emergence, you must discount the many mentions of the creatures in Mythos tomes, and Mr. Shiny, who seems to have been around for much longer than this century. It would make an interesting curve ball to throw at complacent players used to trusting causality and continuity. And it doesn't exactly violate the "rules", just bends them a bit. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 3:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle In a message dated 4/22/00 1:18:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Well the former quote was me, and the latter part was you, but mostly the concept of inevitable species extinction was HPL. This is Call of Cthulhu you know. HPL simply extended the mortality of individuals unto civilization and entire species. >> The concept of inevitable species extinction was around before HPL. Ragnarok, Armageddon, entropy and every other variation on 'How it will all end'. I'm not going to resort to HPL cant as the final authority any more than you do when it gets in the way. Yes, it is CoC, after all, but HPL didn't state that that was the way the world will end, he reported what the tomes and carvings and Mythos players said. Fruit of the poison tree. Nice try, thank you for playing. Please, take this home version as your lovely parting gift. Next! << Well, that's the point of Delta Green. It sez so right in the book. We're doomed, but we fight anyway. It's a good a way of spending the short time we have left as any other I suppose. >> Some of us with access to The Big Picture "know", or at least have seen the tomes or read Alphonse's Cliff Notes to the Necronomicon. Hell, we knew that the Amerinds were doomed. That didn't prevent Little Big Horn or gambling on reservations. It never seems to go according to plan. Damn monkeys. In addition to Cowboys, there are Indians. <> It just seems that way. But don't let me stop you on your march to the sea, Lemming in Black. Mark McFadden If you think I'm about to *insert* a Gerbil joke, you've got the wrong Lizard. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Prisoner In a message dated 4/22/00 1:31:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << > ST-IV: The Undiscovered Country'] The Trekkie in me crys out that "The Undiscovered Country" was part VI and not IV. STIV was the one with the Whales, and the Nucleear Wessels, and Transparant Aluminum on the Mac. >> Lisdexia. Sorry. That's right, even numbers OK, odd numbers suck. Shatner directing, be afraid, be very afraid. Mark McFadden Gonna rent ST-III, "In Search Of: Spock's Brain', hosted and narrated by Leonard Nimoy. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Prisoner In a message dated 4/22/00 1:31:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Not really, McGoohan might screw it up due to micromanagement or simply falling behind the times. It could happen! The Man in Black is : zero. >> Cheer up bubbelah, you're not a zero to me. Point Five is taken, Number One is for the finale...hmmmm. Ok, you are Number Two. Hey it fits! The MiB is Number Two! Feel better now? Mark McFadden Bring it on, Meat. I mean, Number Two >snicker<. Aren't you glad to be back in the thick of things? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:03 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > And before you say Shoggoths, what's in it for them? Or, if the severely > limited material-refining Shoggoths are used, how did the DO get them and > learn to control them? I always assumed that the Shoggoths came rolling along and met a Deep One city, recognized a civilization similar to the one that enslaved them (and that they had been bred to fight) and started whuppin' @$$ until a few Starspawn came along to mind control them. This assumes that Starspawn are telepathic like their boss Cthulhu, and that the ocean only inhibits telepathy at really long ranges, like maybe... past a city's radius? This gives us a setting in where Starspawn allow Deep Ones (stolen and modified humans?) to acquire Elder Thing Tech, and also present the Deep Ones with Starspawn tech as well. Given the possible extra terrestrial nature of the DO, they may have just brought it all with them. Remember, Cthulhu and Co. had a little tiff with the ET's and the Deep Ones might have been part of this conflict. Some might say that this was supposedly before there were primates, but this is CoC, with Hyborians and Hyperborians and Time Travel and meaningless causality. So in this scenario, Starspawn are controlled by the Big C, who told them to keep it on the Q-T until he awakens, and the Spawn control the Deep Ones, who control a few Shoggoths. That makes Deep One priests important to maintaining control over long range Deep One missions, and explains why we don't see them swimming about the oceans, which is probably a good idea for sea creatures. Then again, they could be ranging all over, who can truly know for sure? Of course, this whole post is merely rationalizing a need to avoid fully describing the development of an underwater species' technology so just we can get straight to the Kewl parts. The Man in Black is : your advocate for Kewlness Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up Davide invoked me by writing: >The premise: most of humanity is killed by a truly nasty retrovirus >(possibly a bioweapon), that acts like the opposite of HIV - it boosts your >immunitary system reaction to the point that both endocithosys and >exocitosys (sp?) stop, locking up metabolism, and you die. >One of the character describes the progression of the illness as 'visible >autism', and it sounds good. Interesting. Wonder why they chose a retrovirus (as opposed to any other type of virus). Still, at the risk of going into lecture mode, here goes. Endocytosis and exocytosis (the cellular processes involved in uptake and export of molecules into cells respectively) are functions carried out by all cells, not just the immune system. I wonder if the author actually meant phagocytosis, which is the uptake of microbes or dead cells by the immune system (usually by cells called macrophages and neutrophils, but also dendritic cells, B-cells and eosinophils to some degree). Why this would jack up the immune system so far as to cause what are fundamental cellular processes to fail is beyond me. Some chemicals can stop both processes though (normally by messing with the cytoskeleton to prevent the formation of vesicles at the cell surface). Note also that stopping endocytosis and exocytosis would kill the cell in a few hours, and so wouldn't be very conducive to virus spread (especially for something like a retrovirus that has the option of inserting into the host genome to facilitate long term survival). The phrase "visible autism" is also a mystery, as autism is a mental disorder which has affects spatial perception amongst other things (and hence is a highly personalised disease). >Now, given my scarce background in biology, I can't say if this is just >strikingly dressed-up crap, or if the thing as some claim to realism, but >sure the effect is great. Well, I hope I don't affect your suspension of disbelief, but this sounds like "strikingly dressed-up crap" to me. But I'm just in a cynical mood as I've spent the last 3 hours frantically checking the galley proofs of a manuscript (on a saturday afternoon) to be informed by my boss that it wasn't really urgent as the publicatiopn date has just been put back by another fortnight..... AAAAAAAARGHH!! Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Yes, it is CoC, after all, but HPL didn't state that that was the way the > world will end, he reported what the tomes and carvings and Mythos players > said. > Fruit of the poison tree. > Nice try, thank you for playing. Please, take this home version as your > lovely parting gift. > Next! Are you trying to deny that inevitable species extinction is not part of the Mythos? Not one of the central pillars of our faith? Not mentioned by certain "Cones Now, Coleopterans Later" kinda guys? Keep in mind that I never mentioned specific Agents by name or category either. Just the obvious OOC viewpoint. > <> > > It just seems that way. But don't let me stop you on your march to the sea, > Lemming in Black. You seem to forget that I am going to die, you are going to die and so is everyone else. We all will meet our doom someday, it is how we face it that matters. That is what I'm trying to say, and that's what I think DG and HPL were trying to say as well. What are you trying to say, that I'm Immortal? Is there something that I should be aware of? Should I invest in impenetrable, yet comfy, 24/7 neck armor? > If you think I'm about to *insert* a Gerbil joke, you've got the wrong > Lizard. Q: Why did the gerbil cross the road? A: To get into [CENSORED]. The Man in Black is : [CENSORED]. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle In a message dated 4/22/00 3:22:40 PM Central Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << You are not following this thread. The point is that IN THE MYTHOS (as opposed to in the game) humanity is doomed. DOOOMED DOOOOOMED~! I say! >> You know that, I may know that - but the average delta green agent - may not know that. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Prisoner On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Ok, you are Number Two. > > Hey it fits! The MiB is Number Two! > > Feel better now? > > Mark McFadden > Bring it on, Meat. I mean, Number Two >snicker<. > Aren't you glad to be back in the thick of things? Kewl, No.2 neato-keen! ... HEY! WAIT A MINUTE~! I want Zero back. NOW. Actually, Zero was a number of one of the wierd folk at the New Facility, which was my minimalist art deco ubertech version of Da Prisoner. Everyone but the PC's had really high round numbers like million, billion and infinity. I'll probably co-op seven and 23 the next time around. I have mentioned this OT crap on the list before. The Man in Black is : not a number, he's an alphabet. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/22/00 3:22:40 PM Central Daylight Time, > mib@cyberspace.org writes: > > << > You are not following this thread. The point is that IN THE MYTHOS (as > opposed to in the game) humanity is doomed. DOOOMED DOOOOOMED~! I say! > >> > > You know that, I may know that - but the average delta green agent - may not > know that. This is just sad. You're STILL not following the thread. Read what is contained above in the parenthesis of my quote of your quote of my quote. It sez (and I quote my quote of your quote of my quote) "as opposed to in the game" I think I will type it some more, just to make sure. IN THE GAME! IN THE GAME! IN THE FREAKIN' GAME! AAAAAAIIIIIIGGGGHHH~! Get this big pink Christina Aguilara Bug offa me! The Man in Black is : going off to get some much needed sleep. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:32 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle In a message dated 4/22/00 4:16:49 PM Central Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Q: Why did the gerbil cross the road? A: To get into [CENSORED]. The Man in Black is : [CENSORED]. >> and abviously terrified of gerbils across the road! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: THE GUN EATERS In a message dated 4/22/00 1:36:35 PM Central Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: > "We are the hollow men... > Our dried voices, when > We whisper together > Are quiet and meaningless > As wind in dry grass > Or rats' feet over broken glass > In our dry cellar."- T.S. Elliot, "The Hollow men" More appropriate for Delta Green might be: "This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper" ---Also from "The Hollow Men" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle In a message dated 4/22/00 3:18:56 PM Central Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: > Well the former quote was me, and the latter part was you, but mostly the > concept of inevitable species extinction was HPL. This is Call of Cthulhu > you know. HPL simply extended the mortality of individuals unto > civilization and entire species. So let me get this straight...HPL, who, as far as the mythos is concerned, is as close to a primary source as we'll ever want to come, is only infallible as long as his predictions include stark destruction and doom? Whereas if the Mi-Go appear even a little bit human or fallible, that's not what he meant? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 10:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: Graeme Price > Alternatively, you could culture > large bacterial or fungal colonies as food which don't neccesarily need > light or air (don't laugh - there were serious proposals to use both fungal > and bacterial biomass as a solution to global food shortage in the 1980's). Bacterial/microbial technology, yes. Let's not forget human biotech is 1000's of years old. Cheese, beer, youhurt - it's basic to our food processing. So, imagine FX cultures of "cementation bacteria" that the DO mix with deepsea mud. After a certain number of divisions the metabolic products of the bacteria make the mud go hard and stay that way. Undersea cement or concrete. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:08 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: The Man in Black > On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > > > Wasn't "the Shadow Over Innsmouth" a sequel to "At The Mountains Of > > Madness"? > > No, you are stupid and wrong. So goto hell, you goto Hell and you DIE~! :P > > Innsmouth was 1928, Mountains was 1930-1931. The info can be found in the > main rulebook, EC, and sundry others. > Damn. Yr right, curse you. To much posting late at night On the other hand, there is no such thing as too much posting late at night :-) On reflection, many other pre -ATMOM stories have Shoggoths. And yet I still think that the blobs in those stories were "mythological" or "dreamland" echoes of the Shoggoths - that HPL was rationalising their appearance in TSOI when he wrote about them in ATMOM. The idea that The Shoggoths Have Just Escaped From Their Caves Under The Ice And Now They Are Coming To Eat Us was, as someone pointed out, the inspiration for Shea's Fat Face (one of the slim handful of good Mythos stories in the last 20 yrs). And it ties in with "The Thing/Who Goes There" - as LizardKing says, given our special knowledge it's bloody obvious what that so-called "alien" was. I suspect that the stupid vicious blobs didn't even know there was a world beyond that dark underground sea until the Miskatonic expedition stumbled on to them. When they did they thought - duh, food. Some of them set out across the ice, reshaping themselves into soma that had little contact with the underlying ice (less energy loss through conductivity if you grow legs instead of slithering). Dumb and stupid, no idea of the distance involved, they froze on the way. Some US expedition dug them up and zingo. The facts were fictionalised by Campbell with a light dusting of SF/flying saucer but what actually happened was a lot closer to the recent (color) film. That's how I'd see it. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:39 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology In a message dated 4/22/00 2:04:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Of course, this whole post is merely rationalizing a need to avoid fully describing the development of an underwater species' technology so just we can get straight to the Kewl parts. The Man in Black is : your advocate for Kewlness >> Float like a butterfly, sting like a MiB Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up In a message dated 4/22/00 2:17:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, graemep@immagene.mcg.edu writes: << I've spent the last 3 hours frantically checking the galley proofs of a manuscript (on a saturday afternoon) to be informed by my boss that it wasn't really urgent as the publicatiopn date has just been put back by another fortnight..... AAAAAAAARGHH!! >> But that should delay it's debut until midsummer's eve, just at vespers. Blast. That *is* a rum go. Speak Merkin ya damn furriner. Mark McFadden Being curmudgeonly... esque From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Prisoner In a message dated 4/22/00 2:22:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << HEY! WAIT A MINUTE~! I want Zero back. NOW. Actually, Zero was a number of one of the wierd folk at the New Facility, which was my minimalist art deco ubertech version of Da Prisoner. Everyone but the PC's had really high round numbers like million, billion and infinity. I'll probably co-op seven and 23 the next time around. I have mentioned this OT crap on the list before. The Man in Black is : not a number, he's an alphabet. >> It wasn't OT, it came up during an alternative-to-Andrea\didn't-know-about-Outlook-yet discussion. First, you can't be Number Zero, I'm using that for the movie. And you can't pick any number you want. I tried it, everyone wants to be 23 or 69 and wear black. Fuck that. My way or the hiway, see? Now where was I? Actually, I liked your Village2000 concept well enough to add this: What happens to all the transient Number Twos? I say they all become Pi and become roving authorities. Except for you, of course, who will always be Number Two to me. Mark McFadden OK, OK, you can be Numma Ten. >snicker< OK, Joe? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:39 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Hoyle In a message dated 4/22/00 2:16:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Are you trying to deny that inevitable species extinction is not part of the Mythos? Not one of the central pillars of our faith? Not mentioned by certain "Cones Now, Coleopterans Later" kinda guys?>> We will re-examine these doctrines of our faith just as soon as I nail these Ninety-seven Feces on Adam Weishaupts door. Then I'll order a bunch of anchovie & pineapple pizzas to that address and say Jack Mehoff ordered them. Where was I? Oh, yes. Bite me. Yes, inevitable race extinction is part and parcel of the Game. I just dispute the timeline in the other guy's almanac and suspect we were edited out of the export version. Those Yithian videos bothered me until I remembered the EWG model. Now I'm a much more upbeat guy. Come into the Light, MiB. Just wipe that jelly off before you sit on anything. << You seem to forget that I am going to die, you are going to die and so is everyone else. We all will meet our doom someday, it is how we face it that matters. That is what I'm trying to say, and that's what I think DG and HPL were trying to say as well. What are you trying to say, that I'm Immortal? Is there something that I should be aware of? Should I invest in impenetrable, yet comfy, 24/7 neck armor? >> No no, basic black is commonly accepted as a normal choice out here. The pearl gerbil collar is a classy touch I must say. I will not subject you to the Spago fresh virgin basil and sundried free ranch tomato served on a bed of choice Amazon arugula garlic bread test. Once over lightly in the office tanning bed will suffice. Our 'inevitably' being supplanted by Coleoropterans shouldn't stop any Agents from puttting away money for their kid's college. Further, I am reluctant to get all touchy-extropian, but everyone on this List has a shot at immortality depending on local politics and health care. We are getting closer every day. It would be short-sighted to exclude any scenarios involving immortal-until-proven-otherwise humans. Maybe human immortality requires free fall. Let the Coleopterans have the dirt. Mark McFadden Deliver me from reasons why you'd rather die, I'd rather fly. Out here on the perimeter, there are no stars.... so how can they be right? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: > << They cement rocks together by controlling the precipitation of silica out > of the deep water - like Davide said.>> > > Ah ah. You're running again. Baby steps, please. > They precipitate using what tools? > Did they use chipped stone and sharp seashells to make this tech? I would guess that first they find or stumble on ways of hardening undersea muck. This could be a chemical process (move it from very deep sea to more shallow waters and the chemical balance of the water changes. If Carbonate structures dissolve in the deep sea, then maybe deep sea ooze gets carbonate cemented when you bring it up). For them, this allows construction at the wattle-and-daub rammed-Earth stage. That's your starter. When you have that, 1) you can seal off volumes of water and change their chemical composition by the simple means of dumping various minerals into the sealed volume - ground coral, silica, whatever else 2) you can make moulds which you can then use to shape large structural elements. To build these "biologically" you could, as you say, get various organic "glues" and form them into a gel, and then precipitate minerals into them. This is the way seashells and so forth are made by the animal. I repeat, you can build very strong and tough substances this way. Yes, these are only first steps, but that's what you asked for! > So we have an idea of what their Industrial Revolution would look like, but > what was the killer app that kicked it off? > See above for one idea. http://itri.loyola.edu/nano/us_r_n_d/04_03.htm for a link. They don't need to fully understand these processes to use them. > In Harry Harrison's 'West of Eden' trilogy, he had the same problem. He had > all kinds of cool biotech for the reptilian tool users to use, but the > evolution of the tech was glossed over. He sure did. > Maybe DO didn't evolve their tech underwater, they *are* amphibious after > all. Adaption is easier than creation. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of DocHopt@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 11:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: the movie In a message dated 4/9/00 7:28:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, duggerj@mindspring.com writes: << >Who would do the theme song for the marketing blitz? Front Line Assembly's "Don't Trust Anyone" captures the spirit, but its slow tempo doesn't match modern advertising. I think countering the trend could work, but a faster remix might serve better. Say MDFMK (formerly known as KMFDM) for that job? >> Hate to sound corny and condescending-to-the-popular, but perhaps "The Kids Aren't Alright" by the Offspring. Nicely dismal song about the wearing-down of young American society, which is what most DG cell members basically are... Of course, based on reading other previous posts re: the DG movie, one of you has probably suggested this already. :P Hopt From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up Greetings. Let's indulge the Lizard King's OTs.... once again ;> > OT, but indulge me per favore. When I was last in Italy (77-78) I noticed >that 100 Lire notes were not necessarily good from town to town. I looked >closer and noticed that 100 Lire notes were of many different colors and >designs, and in fact were all signed checks from a local bank. Is this still >the case? > Just trying to get those little details that make foreign adventures more >fun. They were called 'Miniassegni' (minicheques) and they are, gratefully A Thing of the Past (TM). So... Back in the seventies, what with crisis and all that, metal coinage suddenly disappeared from Italian pockets. How this came to happen is still a mystery onto itself. Anyway, as at the time 100 lire were still enough to get you a pack of chips or some light refreshment, the sudden disappearance of 50 and 100 lire denominations was a tragedy. To counter the drama, local banks emitted variable runs of cheques for the worth of 50 and 100 (rarely 200) lire. As Mark notes, as this was a local bank thing, often moving a few kms rendered your paper currency worthless. [gosh, this sounds like something out of the Reinassance!] Banks in tourist locations were expecially interested in printing the things, and a few thousand different designs circulated for about five years. Then, as they had disappeared, coins came back to our pockets, and minicheques vanished. Tons of them were destroyed by the Banca d'Italia. Today, minicheques are a prized collectible, and can get up to a few hundred times the printed value. This has little Dg content.... BUT! Remember that minicheques were basically scrap paer from a legal point of view. As a result, it was all right to write on them, and as long as they circulated, they were used as a convenient and handy tool to take notes, jot down phone numbers and so on. People even used them to circulate poetry - you write your haiku or what on the note, use it to pay the bar bill, and it gets around. Glove cleaners would have loved them. Note: written or otherwise damaged minicheques are worthless from a collectible point of view. > AND, 'The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen' by Alan Moore is being >re-issued. I picked up Volume 1. Yeehaaa! They're even translating it in Italian! There's still hope for this country, despite the rightwingers winning in the political arena. Cheers! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 4:04 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology Greetings. ><< They cement rocks together by controlling the precipitation of silica out >of the deep water - like Davide said.>> > > Ah ah. You're running again. Baby steps, please. > They precipitate using what tools? Bacteria. Deep One Da Vinci notices that certain molds seem to cause the underlying ooze to get thicker and stickier. So he sez 'What if I put this between two chunks of rock?' As simple as A, B, C. ;> Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 5:36 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up Greetings. Thanks to Graeme for setting me straight about this Eden stuff... >Interesting. Wonder why they chose a retrovirus (as opposed to any other >type of virus). Still, at the risk of going into lecture mode, here goes. >Endocytosis and exocytosis (the cellular processes involved in uptake and >export of molecules into cells respectively) are functions carried out by >all cells, not just the immune system. Infact. The idea is, _all cells_ in your body suddenly lock up. > Note also that stopping >endocytosis and exocytosis would kill the cell in a few hours, and so >wouldn't be very conducive to virus spread (especially for something like a >retrovirus that has the option of inserting into the host genome to >facilitate long term survival). >From the way the idea is presented, looks like the virus infects you, turning you into a carrier of the infection, then the lock-up effect is triggered by some secondary phenomenon. Various ways can be used to slow down the activation (from massive doses of vitamin C to experimental vaccines). The two-phase patetrn of the infection is what leads the characters to believe the thing is possibly a bioweapon. >The phrase "visible autism" is also a >mystery, as autism is a mental disorder which has affects spatial >perception amongst other things (and hence is a highly personalised >disease). My fault - never translate back translations without checking. 'Physical autism' might be a better form. The idea seems to be that autistic individuals somewhat sever their bridges with the outer world, exactly as the infected cells sever all contact with the outside. >Well, I hope I don't affect your suspension of disbelief, but this sounds >like "strikingly dressed-up crap" to me. No problemo - I can suspend disbelief as long as the story is solid and a fun read, which seems to be the case. > But I'm just in a cynical mood as >I've spent the last 3 hours frantically checking the galley proofs of a >manuscript (on a saturday afternoon) to be informed by my boss that it >wasn't really urgent as the publicatiopn date has just been put back by >another fortnight..... AAAAAAAARGHH!! I understand. I'll star a new job next week, and my new boss (a young lady) stated that nobody seems to like doing the first shift, starting work at seven a.m. At which I pointed out that the seven o'clock shift would be perfect for me, as I'd be off early in the afternoon, in time to do some consistent work at the university. Well, she was extremely understanding: untill further notice, I'll be working from 9 a.m. to 7.30 p.m., with either two useless one-hour breaks or four even-more-useless half-hours breaks. My working day is totally crippled. I was told once by a British friend that the technical term to define my boss is 'bitch'. I therefore offer the following option - let's abolish bosses. The way they did in France in... what was it, late eighteenth century? Anyway, thanks for your time, Graeme. Good night! And Happy Easter to all of you out there! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 2:23 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Minicheques ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > [gosh, this sounds like something out of the Reinassance!] It does, doesn't it? Very city-state. What an Interesting country you live in. Chuckle chuckle > Glove cleaners would have loved them. > Correct. 10 out of 10. This one drools at the very thought of them. Thr Glove Cleaner