From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Snorkey [snorkey@home.com] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 8:10 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology A couple recent discoveries that have been missing from this discussion include: Hydrate Ice - Natural gas, when under pressure deep under water, forms a white ice that melts at about 40 F (IRC) and can burn in the presence of oxygen if ignited. It is believed that several trillion tons of natural gas lurk in hydrate ice just below the muck of the gulf of Mexico. Note: there are fears that global warming will raise sea temps. enough to cause the some of the stuff to melt; creating great out gassings of a potent green house gas. (which in turn may raise temps...) Petroleum Smokers - A natural upwelling of oil and natural gas. These smokers often have as diverse (if a bit more sparse in terms of numbers) an ecology around them as the Black (volcanic) smokers do. Powered by bacterium that break down the methane (and oil) from petroleum "smokers" as an energy source. Worms, crabs and such then feed on the bacterium . Anoxic Bacterium - Found in the sea bottom muck, even in the most hostel places. Some varieties can get to be big enough to be naked eye visible (about the size of a period, about 1/100 inch). The creatures live in a feast and famine environment. Gobbling up food when it is available in the normal Oxygen cycle becoming bloated with sulfurous sugars. Then in the hard decades they slip into a sulfur cycle that produces oxygen (which it uses). Algae - It has been know that Algae produces a small amount of hydrogen at night. Recently it has been discovered that by depriving the Algae of sulfur you can send it into a starvation mode where it produces vast amounts of hydrogen during the day. This lasts only for a few days until the Algae starves to death. Radiation Proof Bacterium - These critters have found in hot springs, nuclear reactors, tins of irradiated food. Blast them with a few million (yes million) RADS they put them selves back together without errors. Interesting given that the human can die from about a 1000 RADS. (> 3000 will make most stain their paints as they go into convulsions from ionization of chemicals in the nerves. Makes you wonder how anything could evolve a resistance to such impossibly high levels of radiation. (ET experiments? Shoggoth flakes? Or just a novel way of dealing with dehydration? You decide.) CO2 Sequestering Plans - There are many studies being conducted at the feasibility of taking CO2 produced as apart of industrial processes, liquefying it, and piping it to the bottom of the ocean. There it becomes a hydrate Ice. If executed it should raise energy costs by about 50%. Typical Big Biz, come up with a expensive solution to dispose of the waste products so that they can continue doing things the way they have been. There are concerns that an earth quake might trigger massive gas release. All this is just bio-tech idea fodder and it gives me visions of slime coated blocks of bubbling ice feeding giant plantations of tube worms. Until non-NWO Oil rig starts dumping its waste CO2. That or a DO doom's day plot to melt the hydrates to bake the earth. Thought: Were not the Deep ones brought to earth by Big C. (TMOM?) Are not most of the Mythos, Post technological. (evolved beyond the need for technology). Their existence before being brought to the earth was, most likely, vastly different than what it is now. Personally I imagine DO's as a post technological Utopia, where immortals follow a life of idle research and Spartan decadence. Their cities as being made from BF blocks carved of primordial Granite, Serpentine and Balsalt. (Using Hyper-geometrical Fracturing Technologies. ) They feed, when needed, by swimming up to higher levels and gorging them selves. The few material items that are needed are made from base metal condensed from sea water using Alchemical Techniques. Snork - Snorkey: Who can't separate Illusion from Reality without breaking the yoke. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Devin Binger [agent-xavier@home.com] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 9:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology > Radiation Proof Bacterium - These critters have found in hot springs, > nuclear reactors, tins of irradiated food. Blast them with a few million > (yes million) RADS they put them selves back together without errors. Bizarre. Could you send me anything on this? Cuz that's (for the less scientifically gifted on the list) equvelant to becoming immune to, say, physical force/kinetic energy. Not having armor. Just immune. >Spartan decadence ?????? Errr... Howzat work? Maybe if you really like black bread and porridge... Xavie From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up In a message dated 4/23/00 4:03:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Whoa there! I don't think P.X. ever stole the Silver Surfer's powers, manipulated Terrax, owns his own country, stole the Beyonder's powers, toyed with many cosmic cubes, layed the Latverian smack-down on Mephisto, and generally fought every single Marvel (and a few DC and other) superhero and villain for thirty years, including the combined Avengers (Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Capt. America). Doing all this without resorting to any team-ups, except for that one with Steven Strange. And those one's with that traitor Kang... >> And, AND, already conquered the whole world once but no one knew about it. But he was so bored with the result that he released Magneto from his grip and dared him to do something about it. Not only that, but there is strong evidence that Kang *is* Victor von Doom in the future, as well as a Pharoah in the past. Survey says: Doctor Doom rules! Mark McFadden Don't forget, Victor von Doom has a heritage of technology *and* magic on his gypsy mother's side. After messing up his face (another *assumed* fact) he went to the Himalyas and was rescued by a secret order of monks, which he soon commanded upon recovering. They built the armor at his bidding, and he put the mask on before it was cooled. So the condition of his face before that point is moot. Talk about your Shaolin graduation tests... Mark McFadden Hail! Hail, Latveria! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Dylan Dog training In a message dated 4/23/00 1:31:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << The story about voluptous daughter et cetera is the classical bit of formulaic (and gratuitous) stuff I mentioned and that at lenght (no pun intended) gets rather boring (again, no pun). Considering Mr Dog beds _at least_ one new voluptous young lady in each episode, one wonders where does he find the time, and the physical strenght, to go occult-hunting. >> Oysters, smart drinks, positive thinking, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Monster Hunters, and laying (pun intended) a solid foundation of tantric training with an army of interns. Your mileage may vary. Oh, you meant the guy in the comic book? Never mind. Mark McFadden Oh stop it, you'll give me a swelled head. The 'seven miles' was just poetic imagery, unless you count the 4th dimension. Really, 'miles' indeed. I've been metric since the 60s. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 1:43 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Occult Weirdness All, For those who need weird mythological/paranormal references in a bizarre stream-of-consciousness style, I recommend this page: http://www.danwinter.com/blood/index.html Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 2:04 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology From: Steven Kaye > Nah - only rates a minor flensing Not Time To Feed The Shoggoth, then?? Phew . . . .. . > So assuming that Deep Ones are adapted to a deep sea environment, > they might only have rods, rather than rods and cones. Check out > http://www.mbari.org/webcomments/_webcomments/000000b7.htm, > specifically the discussion of the vision of inshore fish vs. ocean > fish - also http://oceanlink.island.net/ask/fishy.html#anchor73223. > It's also interesting the Deep One hybrids have eyes in a normal > human configuration (at least, one assumes Olmstead would have > mentioned them having eyes unusually widely-spaced). Interesting points. Umm. As well as color vs black-and-white, cones in the human eye at least are wired for high-definition vision, while the rods are wired for motion-detection. If the DO are tool users they must have good high-definition vision, and they might be expected to have binocular vision. Lots and lots of land animals have eyes in the "fish" position - look at a rabbits' some time. There's no reason why tool-using "fish" shouldn't have eyes in the "tarsier" position. > Do they see in color? They share a lot of genes with us and I can see no advantage in dropping the ones that give color vision particularly if they are amphibious The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 2:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: New DS pictures (CELL F Report) ----- Original Message ----- From: Til Eulenspiegel To: > Questions remain. First, no known nuclear explosions occured at > the same time as the event. Where did the energy originate? Direct link hypergeometrical link to the heart of the sun? Direct hypergeometrical link to the heart of a comet moving at 70 km/sec relative to Mars' surface? You'd only need to teleport in a ton or so of material at that speed (about 1 meter cubed) to get an explosion in the kiloton range. Just a thought. Maybe, maybe not. The problem is, this would make him too powerful. If DS could *routinely* handle such ranges in time and space there would be so much they could do that they would be able to time travel, teleport matter from one place to another, and generally be godlike. They have problems (else why ally with us?) and they are not near-omnipotent beings. (And links over great distances could bring in the relativity problems we discussed in the Gates thread.) Perhaps they can do such things occasionally - but it requires great effort, pain and expense. A human analogy might be permanently moving from one country to another. You *can* do it - but you are not likely to do it more than once in a lifetime. "Michael" stated that he achieved that explosion by manipulating the local space/time geometry (or something like that) and I see no reason why he shouldn't do things in whatever way is easiest for him. Maybe he *could* pluck the energy from elsewhere, but I suspect what he did was the simplest and cheapest way, and the choice of plutonium as a substrate was logical - from his own point of view. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 2:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: Snorkey > Hydrate Ice - Natural gas, when under pressure deep under water, forms a > white ice that melts at about 40 F (IRC) and can burn in the presence of > oxygen if ignited. Damn good point > Anoxic Bacterium - Found in the sea bottom muck, even in the most hostel > places. Some varieties can get to be big enough to be naked eye visible > (about the size of a period, about 1/100 inch). Interesting. Any known "concretion" reactions? At any rate there is a lot of raw material here for the DO to select from. > CO2 Sequestering Plans - There are many studies being conducted at the > feasibility of taking CO2 produced as apart of industrial processes, > liquefying it, and piping it to the bottom of the ocean. LOL! I'm sure the DO would have something to say. > Personally I imagine DO's as a post technological Utopia, where immortals > follow a life of idle research and Spartan decadence. Trouble is, they just aren't that powerful. Their cities are vunerable to depth charges! What price "posttechnological Utopia" if you can't fend that off? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Snorkey [snorkey@home.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:13 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology >> Radiation Proof Bacterium - These critters have found in hot springs, >> nuclear reactors, tins of irradiated food. Blast them with a few million >> (yes million) RADS they put them selves back together without errors. > Bizarre. Could you send me anything on this? Cuz that's (for the less > scientifically gifted on the list) equvelant to becoming immune to, say, > physical force/kinetic energy. Not having armor. Just immune. There was an article a while in Science News [Dec 12, 1998 vol. 154 p376 "Meet the Superbug"] that talked about bacterium D. radiodurans that could thrive after exposures to 1.5 MILLION RADS. (3+ million if cold or frozen.) It essentially had the ability to reassemble it's DNA from the Radiation blasted fragments. It is intrusting to ponder exactly how such a life form could evolve on earth. The article did posit a answer: Dehydration resistance. Dehydration generates the same type of DNA damage as irradiation. Furthermore the same bacteria has been found in hot springs. The bug's has several repair mechanisms: A protein that can repair double strand breaks; It keeps 4 to 10 full copies of it's genome in each microbe; and some system of double checking the backups. The article is standard Science News fare: not too technical, yet with some meat. >>Spartan decadence > ?????? > Errr... Howzat work? Maybe if you really like black bread and porridge... Living a life where you can have all that you want when you want nothing. Imagine: you are immortal, need to eat occasionally to maintain energy and size, most everyone you know is also immortal. The temp is constant, weather occasional; What would you want? (Answer is Mates). Snork -- Snorkey: Remember, a rested mind is not a fevered mind. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Snorkey [snorkey@home.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:40 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology >> Personally I imagine DO's as a post technological Utopia, where immortals >> follow a life of idle research and Spartan decadence. > > Trouble is, they just aren't that powerful. Their cities are vunerable to > depth charges! > I have some personal doubts about our ability to Depth Charge a DO city. I don't think the mechanisms could survive the pressure. (They are designed for much shallower depths). A further point to consider is that DO cities were never designed to survive an attack from surface dwellers: The DO's have been alone in the sea (with Big C and the Star Spawn) sense the end of the war with the Elder Things (at least 50 Million Years or More). > What price "post technological Utopia" if you can't fend that off? The DO's are leaving a Golden Age, a time of unrivaled peace and plenty (abet periodically interrupted by minor Ice Ages). Now, as the threat of humanity grows and the End Times' Near. Their Numbers are growing; They have been studying (and other things) this new species. Soon DO's will dust off (or de-lime) the weapons that were used in their last war (with the Elder Things) and fight back. Up until now there just hasn't been the need. Snork - Snorkey on Win98(and 95, 3.1, ...) I'd rather rip my fingernails out and then try to peal an orange. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MARTIN WOLFF [martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:46 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology One option you are over looking is the number of DO's needed to create and sustain a city. The DO are using the shoggoths as labor for most of their grunt work. The Elder Race created only 'male' shoggoths but gave them a strong desire to breed. The only way to create new shoggoths is through an 'Aliens' style implanting. Thus the Elder Race had to trade off Shoggoth numbers against sacrificing themselves. What usually happened was that a sick or dying one would let itself be multiple impregnated for the greater good. The DO got its labor and the shoggoths got new brothers. After a while, the shoggoths resented the Elder Race and in one big breeding orgy wiped out the entire Elder Race. It was only later that the shoggoths how stupid they had been. Eventually, shoggoths made it into the waters and encountered the DO. After a few hit-and-implant raids on still primitive DO settlements, the shoggoths were ready to go full force against the DO. The smarter DO realized that the shoggoths were physically superior to them but if they could be tamed, they could be used to build their cities. A truce was called, the DO said they could supply an unlimited number of implant bodies if the shoggoth would not attack and actually work for them. The DO hope was that they could become strong enough to wipe out the shoggoth eventually. The only flaw in their plan was where to find the implant bodies? The requirement was a physiologically similar creature to themselves which could live in water. The DO were not too keen to use their own for the shoggoths. So, the DO moved more towards the land. After a few raids on quiet fishing ports they found they were able to breed with the humans (though the thought of doing it made them sick!). After a number of years, the DO genes took control and the hybrids gladly went to the sea believing immortality. To the DO, they were just cattle to be bred. This uneasy truce has been working for a while. The shoggoth, while not very smart have been able to use tools and technology (mostly building) from the Elder Race and the DO have been able to deliver the bodies. The problem is that after a failed scientific trip to Antartica, the shoggoth have discovered that the the implantable bodies live on the land. Even the dumb shoggoths realize that they don't need the DO any move. So the balance of power is this. The shoggoths can again become hostile with the DO. The DO, who are not yet strong enough to defeat the shoggoth may have to, as a last resort, invoke Cthulhu to strike against the shoggoth (and bring on the endtimes). If DG became aware of the situation what would they do? Do they side with the DO who are raping the humans to avoid them invoking Cthulhu or do they side with the shoggoths who are physically stronger than them to defeat the DO before they invoke Cthulhu. Both ways seem hopeless. So CoC, so DG. Martin. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MARTIN WOLFF [martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:29 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up > So the lame duck VP is the front runner to lead his party to yada yada ad > infiyada. No shit. It's part of the deal. Eight years of waving and wearing > hats and cutting ribbons, then you get the nod. Besides, it's common wisdom > that VPs running for the top spot always get it... except when they don't. Actually George Bush (no W) was the only president from VP in the 20th century and he didn't manage 2 terms. ObDG: Perhaps they know too much. Non-ObDG: Perhaps they are useless! Martin. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up] >And, AND, already conquered the whole world once but no one knew about >it. >But he was so bored with the result that he released Magneto from his >grip >and dared him to do something about it. >Not only that, but there is strong evidence that Kang *is* Victor von >Doom >in the future, as well as a Pharoah in the past. >Survey says: Doctor Doom rules! Let's not forget Doom's activities in the ill-fated 'Doom 2099' series by Warren Ellis either(conquering America, declaring himself President by right of revolution, and dismantling the corrupt and capatilist free-market corporate structure that had dominated up until this point) "My mistake was in thinking I could cure America, when I should have cut it out of this planet like a cancer." - Doom, following a succesful corporate counter-revolution ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 10:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Bronsons on tour? >From a Millennium's End mailing list.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan K. Pendergast To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 7:09 PM Subject: [ME]: Black Trucks > This is going to sound like a dumb question to many readers, I'm sure, but > I have to ask. I just walked in my apartment after driving in from my > parent's house in Corpus Christi, TX. Just outside Corpus, I passed three > military vehicles - two 5-ton trucks and a HMMWV. Nothing remarkable about > that except that they were all painted gloss black. The HMMWV was a > military hard top variant with a deep water fording kit - definitely not a > civilian version. The 5-tons were all black except for the canvas covers > over the cargo bed which were ordinary olive drab. > > I'm writing to the list hoping than someone will have an idea of what it is > that I saw. Are there any DoD vehicles painted in glossy black? > > Also, happy belated easter everyone.... > Ryan > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up Martin wrote: Actually George Bush (no W) was the only president from VP in the 20th century and he didn't manage 2 terms. You're forgetting Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon (who was Eisenhower's VP, but became President later), and Gerald Ford. Sure, many became president after assassinations, but even so. Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 11:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Patent sillynes.... At 11:04 PM 4/23/00 +0200, you wrote: >.... And Off topic, too. > >But, please, check out this one > >http://www.hecklers.com/simshatner/simshatner.php3 > Yep.. great stuff. It was Alphonse himself who mentioned this to meself at a Con in Cork. So it's obviously something to do with OUTLOOK or something... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology In a message dated 00-04-24 03:34:51 EDT, you write: << > CO2 Sequestering Plans - There are many studies being conducted at the > feasibility of taking CO2 produced as apart of industrial processes, > liquefying it, and piping it to the bottom of the ocean. LOL! I'm sure the DO would have something to say. >> Unless they asked for the waste. Hey, are you using that? Mark McFadden Has seen some of the IMF hidden agenda. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Stephen Joseph Ellis [sje1@st-andrews.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: ODH size. (ATTN Pagan) I'll repost this 'cos I think Pagan might have missed it. (teach me for emailing at the weekend.) Steve. "In the long run we are all dead" -John Maynard Keynes ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:21:10 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Joseph Ellis To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: ODH size. Dear all, Having missed most of the recent brouhaha over ODH (I wish we had a searchable archieve. oh well.) , a question for the Paganistas suddenly occurred to me. Will 'Our Darkest Hour' be competing for the 'biggest Cthulhu title ever' award? After all, I thought Countdown (425 pages) was unfairly pipped to the post by Beyond the Mountains of Madness (440 pages) last year. Perhaps ODH will make it past the 500 page mark? (To bulk up the size, how about including a special deal where you get the complete 'The World at War' video collection with every ODH?) Keep up the good work Pagan! Steve. (who by his calculations is eagerly expecting the 2010 Pagan release of over 1000 pages. I'll have to go start building a reinforced book case to hold them all now.) "In the long run we are all dead" -John Maynard Keynes From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James Holloway [j_holloway26@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:36 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Immunitary System Lock-up >Actually George Bush (no W) was the only president from VP in the 20th >century and he didn't manage 2 terms. With the exceptions of Harry Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, and Gerald Ford. (Yes, yes, none of them were _elected_ to their fist terms - but with the exception of Ford, they were all re-elected at least once). Richard Nixon was also a VP, but he had to weather some Democratic adminstrations first. I'm sure there have been others, as well. But if you'll check back, you'll see it's not about whether VPs get elected, it's about whether they get nominated. Different thing altogether and much more unpredictable. -- James Holloway "Okay, and there's nothing in between. It's either grain alcohol in back alleys or a happy world of rodents and feetie pyjamas." "Yes." "I mean, why is that so hard to accept?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 2:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Naughty little ELFs... >From Disinfo... Finally, the behaviour of the Paganites explained... http://www.disinfo.com/disinfo?p=dossier&title=The+Woodpecker+Effect JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: More Waco stuff Waco always seems to be a hot topic on the DGML, so I hope this is of interest. >From the www.specialoperations.com mailing list Report: Federal agents didn't fire at Branch Davidians April 22, 2000 Web posted at: 4:54 AM EDT (0854 GMT) ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Federal agents did not fire at Branch Davidians in the 1993 siege that ended in a deadly blaze at the group's compound in Waco, Texas, according to a preliminary report from last month's simulation of the confrontation. Vector Data Systems, the British firm that conducted the simulation, provided the written report to U.S. District Judge Walter S. Smith Jr. earlier this month. The test was performed March 19 in Fort Hood, Texas. Vector found that flashes produced by sunlight reflecting off debris were considerably longer in duration than flashes produced by gunfire, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported today, citing informed sources. That finding would support the government's claim that similar flashes seen on a 1993 infrared tape were the result of sunlight reflecting off debris from the crumbling complex, not gunfire. Vector also reported that the infrared cameras in aircraft above the Fort Hood simulation site picked up flashes from six of the nine weapons tested. But wherever flashes were visible from weapons, the shooters also were visible, the sources said. Flashes on the 1993 Waco tape do not show shooters. Vector followed up the preliminary report with an oral briefing for Smith last Monday. Mike Caddell, the lead counsel for the Branch Davidians, said Smith has not yet relayed the conclusions of Vector's oral report. He interpreted that as "a bad sign for my side." But, Caddell said, he has strong evidence on other issues that he will stress at the June trial of the Branch Davidians' wrongful death suit against the government. Among them are the Davidians' claim that the FBI failed to provide fire equipment as instructed by Attorney General Janet Reno and that the FBI commanders on the scene abused their discretion by prematurely knocking down part of the complex. Regardless of Vector's conclusions, Caddell plans to present his own experts who will argue that the flashes on the 1993 tape are from government guns. He acknowledges that his experts cannot show that any particular Branch Davidian died from a government bullet. Vector was hired to conduct the test by Special Counsel John Danforth who, in September, was appointed by Reno to oversee an independent investigation into the standoff and fire. The appointment came amid criticism following revelations that the FBI, contradicting a position it had taken for six years, used potentially incendiary devices on the last day of the 51-day standoff on April 19, 1993. David Koresh and about 80 followers died. Reno and the FBI deny any wrongdoing. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 4:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Naughty little ELFs... In a message dated 00-04-24 15:49:39 EDT, you write: << >From Disinfo... Finally, the behaviour of the Paganites explained... http://www.disinfo.com/disinfo?p=dossier&title=The+Woodpecker+Effect >> "In March 1978, the town of Eugene, Oregon, and much of the Pacific North-west was saturated in psycho-active 'Extra Low Frequency' (ELF) waves which resulted in a wave of sudden gastro-intestinal illnesses, headaches, fatigue, and anxiety attacks. Initially blamed on a battle between the U.S. Navy and Soviet non-lethal warfare specialists, the microwave signal (likened to a woodpecker) was finally traced by the Federal Communications Commission to a Navy transmitter located in California, rumored to be part of a naval communications system." Hmmmm. Early '78... USN... California. Nope, doesn't ring a bell. Even if it did, and I'm not saying it does, I would be disinclined to discuss such a hypothetical project or my alleged participation in such an endeavor if it did happen, which I'm not saying or in any way implying at this point in time to the best of my recollection. Besides, they should have worn Faraday hats. So it's all their fault if you want to keep harping on this dismissably ridiculous non-issue. Mark McFadden When will you stop hounding me? Hmmmm. What was up with those tatoos in 'Raising Arizona'? HahaHA-ha. HahaHA-ha. Hahahahahahaha. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 4:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Anthrax island Can anyone guide me in tracking down the Scottish island where they tested anthrax after WWII? And no, not the flipping band... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 4:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Naughty little ELFs... At 05:30 PM 4/24/00 EDT, you wrote: > When will you stop hounding me? > Hmmmm. What was up with those tatoos in 'Raising Arizona'? > HahaHA-ha. HahaHA-ha. Hahahahahahaha. > Sooooo.... it was YOU on the motorcycle with the speaker on the front... I beat you hang naughty ELF bells from your pointy hat, you swine... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island Jonathan wrote: > Can anyone guide me in tracking down the Scottish island where they tested anthrax after WWII? And no, not the flipping band... Gruinard, northwest of Scotland. See http://www.calpoly.edu/~drjones/biowar-b.html, for example. "It was thought that it was far enough off the coast as too prevent any contamination of the mainland, which later turned out to be false. The data gathered from these experiments was used by both Great Britain and the U.S. to develop bombs that were better able to effectively disperse spores. After an outbreak of anthrax in sheep and cattle in 1943 on the coast of Scotland that directly faced Gruinard, the British decided to stop testing. A tragic consequence of this testing is that even today Gruinard Island is contaminated with Bacillus anthracis spores. The original idea for decontamination was to start a brushfire that burned off the top of the soil and killed all traces of the organisms. Unfortunately, the spores unexpectedly embedded themselves in the soil so total decontamination of the island was/is impossible. As long as no ground is disturbed, we are supposedly safe, but birds that travel back and forth from mainland to island probably don't know this!!! " Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:10 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Unearthly threads from above... Just spotted this on the Porton Down website... http://www.dra.hmg.gb/html/who_are/history/porton.htm In the early war years, gas attacks were expected and Porton played a central role in investigating and evaluating reports of possible incidents. One notable false alarm was caused by the report that the Germans were releasing some form of vesicant threads or cobwebs over the UK. Porton looked into the matter and confirmed that the threads were a natural phenomenon. Gilbert White, the naturalist, had observed similar concentrations of airborne gossamer in September 1741. This reminds me of a scare story circulating in Bosnia during the 93/94 conflict. It was exactly the same, that the Serbs were dropping bizarre threads or webs onto Croat and Moslem towns. Anyone know what this stuff is? JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Anthrax island Gruinard Island it was. A sweet little spot. I won't bother to post links - any search brings up 100's The Glove Cleaner ---- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Turner > Can anyone guide me in tracking down the Scottish island where they tested > anthrax after WWII? And no, not the flipping band... > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 5:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island At 06:06 PM 4/24/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >Gruinard, northwest of Scotland. See http://www.calpoly.edu/~drjones/biowar-b.html, for example. Thanks a lot, mate. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 4:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: Snorkey > I have some personal doubts about our ability to Depth Charge a DO city. I > don't think the mechanisms could survive the pressure. (They are designed > for much shallower depths). HPL specifically states we did, and back in 1928 to boot. > The DO's are leaving a Golden Age, a time of unrivaled peace and plenty > (abet periodically interrupted by minor Ice Ages). Now, as the threat of > humanity grows and the End Times' Near. Their Numbers are growing; > They have been studying (and other things) this new species. Hmmmm. Maybe so, maybe no. If they are wise immortal philosophers, why are they so cavalier with their own lives? They spend themselves like water. They live - on the land - in pain and squalor. Creatures so violent and careless will have problems living forever whatever their DNA says. At Innsmouth, were we fighting DO expendables - deportees, convicts and slaves thrown ashore to break ground and prepare for the Elite? > Soon DO's will dust off > (or de-lime) the weapons that were used in their last war (with the Elder > Things) and fight back. And just what have we seen them use so far? Maybe, maybe, but evidence, please. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Purple Kat [kringskeep@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 7:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The noble skill of Lying >kringskeep@hotmail.com writes: > ><< Of course I have no knowledge of lemurs, or heat, or sex, or activity. >And >I will deny any charges to the opposite. >> > > Thank you, thank you. I also do weddings and bar mitzvahs. > > Joey the Lemur > care of MST3K You do WHAT???? at weddings and Bar Mitzvahs?? Purple Kat ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 7:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The noble skill of Lying In a message dated 4/24/00 7:10:30 PM Central Daylight Time, kringskeep@hotmail.com writes: > You do WHAT???? at weddings and Bar Mitzvahs?? I'll have you know that his [REDACTED] is vitally important to the [REDACTED]. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 8:06 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Unearthly threads from above... In a message dated 00-04-24 18:15:01 EDT, you write: << This reminds me of a scare story circulating in Bosnia during the 93/94 conflict. It was exactly the same, that the Serbs were dropping bizarre threads or webs onto Croat and Moslem towns. Anyone know what this stuff i >> A) Normal airborne spider propagation. Spiders were the first new lifeforms to re-populate Krakatoa *West* of Java. B) Chaff from military aircraft C) The mysterious gossamer stuff in Blue Book that was explained away as chaff D) The Ubiquitous Unreliable Reporter E) A Fortean Mad Web Monger (much like the "Mad Fish Monger" English papers credited with a rain of fish) F) Mass Hypnosis G) Mass Hallucination H) Mass transit I) Fluoride in our drinking water, and in children's ice cream. CHILDREN'S ICE CREAM, MANDRAKE!! Mark McFadden J) God is getting a haircut (I just knew he was blonde) because of something bad that you did which made him want to quit. I hope you are proud of yourself. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Snorkey [snorkey@home.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 8:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology >> I have some personal doubts about our ability to Depth Charge a DO city. I >> don't think the mechanisms could survive the pressure. (They are designed >> for much shallower depths). > > HPL specifically states we did, and back in 1928 to boot. I was under the impression that attack was on devil's reef. Much shallower than the sea bottom. Consider it a trading outpost. Modern Depth charges, unless specially crafted, most likely wouldn't function more than a mile down. The big cities are safe from all but specially crafted Nukes. (hey weren't there some French tests in the pacific not to long ago...) > If they are wise immortal philosophers, why are they so cavalier with their > own lives? They spend themselves like water. They live - on the land - > in pain and squalor. > > Creatures so violent and careless will have problems living forever whatever > their DNA says. > > At Innsmouth, were we fighting DO expendables - deportees, convicts and > slaves thrown ashore to break ground and prepare for the Elite? The Innsmouth situation was an oppressor (DO's & Hi-B's) attempting to maintain control over a situation involving a single human. In failing to catch him they incurred a much stronger response than they ever expected. They fought desperately for their way of life and, possibly to allow more the more powerful one's to escape (speculation on my part). Up to that time most of their actions had involved a few primitive humans (and a 1d6 SAN loss would cow most) or lone individuals so they were unprepared for strong, organized opposition. > > >> Soon DO's will dust off >> (or de-lime) the weapons that were used in their last war (with the Elder >> Things) and fight back. > > And just what have we seen them use so far? > Maybe, maybe, but evidence, please. In conspiracy theory Conjecture is evidence; supposition proof. Just so happens I have a DO Molecular Resonating Scintillater: It does a very nice job of suppressing weak force by shunting the energy to/from the electromagnetic spectrum. It becomes very dark and very cold as energy is absorbed to allow the molecules to break up; When the effect is removed the molecules decompose back into somewhat lower energy states very rapidly. Releasing vast amounts of energy that Temporarily, electrons in molecules no longer bind to their atoms and the molecules break apart and then collapse back to a lower energy state (releasing energy). Takes a big draw and doesn't work so well on dense materials. It's marginally useful for boiling water 5 miles down; But it makes air explode Real Good! Not to bad for a bit of scrimshaw with funny squiggles on it. Then there is the BF Block mover: use extensions of gate magic to cut a 100,000 ton cube and place it exactly where you want it. Actually my bet is that the DO's fought the ET's using magic and numbers (they can out breed the ET's). Most of the abilities of the DO's have been limited to magic, genetics, and Alchemical techniques. Snork - Snorkey: Just another crack pot with a mission from GOD (but am not sure which one).