From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:13 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: S.P.I.D.E.R. On 21 April, 2000 AD, Popeyesays@aol.com said: >Greetings from another fossil! The D.A.G.G.E.R. Affair and the one where >they >get mixed up with Dracula (I cannot remember the title unfortunately) were >my >two favorite books in the series. > I'm not sure, but I think that may have been "The Thousand Coffins" affair. Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Inside the Deep Ones On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Davide Mana wrote: > One caveat - do not mistake real life Deep Ones with the Call of Cthulhu > RPG Deep Ones. OOOh-kay. We'll be sure not to do that. Yeah. > Cthulhu's Dream could be a sort of Pocket Dreamland, or just a region of > the DL we have yet to map. Yeah, I don't remember ever seeing Randolph Carter or whoever Captain Nemo-ing about the ocean floor on some roody-poo quest or something. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Karotechia Research On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Robert Thomas wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_721000/721037.stm > > Now if you can't make a nice scenario out of this plus Haider in > Austria you just ain't trying :-) Body parts to be "buried" Kewl. On an insensitive note, why can't these morons just have some kind of symbolic funeral so the cadaver guys don't have to screw around with the yucky bits. I mean, supposedly, it's the soul that matters in these religions, not the meat. Then again, maybe hypocrisy should be more important than faith. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Steven Kaye wrote: > IIRC, Siren's Song only works on similar species. Not in my copy of 5.5, but so what? The Deep Ones can easily be provided with some Shoggoth specific variant by ET "spell research" and a Keeper. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: New DS pictures (CELL F Report) On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, William Timmins wrote: > 'Michael' indicates that the process is difficult and that he had been > working on his 'harmonizer' for a few years. He stated he needed plutonium > to make the device work. Why don't we just call it a harmonica :) > For the time being, Michael is being watched very carefully. So far, > beyond a degree of empathy by SH2, there seems to be no ill effects. The > ancient literature regarding this species do not seem to indicate > 'conversion' or other contagious effects are associated with them. Plans > have been drawn up for elimination, if it is warranted. Plans are always in place. I suggest that we watch SH2 for signs of interest in obscure mathemathics etc. This MiB would really hate to see a repeat of [9 9 2 0 .2 2 9 9 8 9 2 1 2 .3 3 4] No, really I would. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Someone dissing the ancient and honorable art of conspiracy theory In a message dated 00-04-25 17:08:26 EDT, you write: << > In conspiracy theory Conjecture is evidence; supposition proof. Wrong. You need to identify supposition as opposed to known sources, no matter how unreliable. This is what we call "supporting your arguments" as opposed to "completely moronic bullshit." Then again, maybe you like being considered an imbecile by your intellectual betters. I dunno. I could be wrong :) >> Yeah, like he said. That sort of reflex disparagement of the quality of thinking that goes into conspiracy theoreticamograficationizing just gets my Black Goat. Sorry Cholly, I see more shallow thinking and knee-jerk response out of the average 'explanation' or 'answer' for conspiracy questions than I do in the questions. Even when the questioner is a known *crank* with a history of *conflicts with the authorities* who is being investigated for purveying or possibly being in possession of *child pornography* or *narcotics*. Unless of course, they are just trying to make a buck with this, like noted *paranoids* *Chris Carter* and *Art Bell*. Some say the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing us it was all an Oliver Stone movie. Then, like that, he's gone. Mark McFadden Trusts his dog's instincts more than the average consumer's. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 4:51 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island His Majesty, Michael Layne, King of Naked Land, waved his royal scepter back and forth, up and down, and wrote: > I had read about the island, myself, but not about the 1980s cleanup > effort! Here, I was figuring that, if decontamination became necessary, the > RAF would need to attend to it -- assuming they had a sufficiently clean > bomb in inventory that would minimize the fallout getting ashore, while > still blasting the abovewater portion of the island out of existence... Mikey, I'm ashamed of you. Even a nuke would send radioactive Anthrax laden fallout back to Scotland. Anthrax is best served through the lungs. If the stuff is imminent in the earth, then you're at a reduced risk. Blasting crap into the air will send it back to the mainland. Soaking the ground with environmentally unfriendly chemical pollutants is the only option. YAY! BIOWARFARE~! In hindsight, what those idiots should have done is prepare high concentration with easy dilution. US Navy did this in the Pacific. Read The Cobra Event by Richard Price Preston (Author of The Hot Zone). Unca' Joe has been known to pimp this book. You want ISBN? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE ISBN~! Hardcover 0-679-45714-3 $25.95 AudioBook 0-679-46051-9 $24.00 Large Print 0-679-77447-5 $25.95 Paperback 0-345-40997-3 $7.99 The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > Where the DO have been living for 80,000 years, 60,000 years longer than > human beings have been in America? 60,000 years longer than they *tell* us humans have been in N. America. > The way the USN did or did not have to jazz up their depth charges is > neither here nor there. A metropolis 20 times older than the oldest > surviving human city was "hurt". Again, you ignore all that Hyborian, Hyperborian and other crap. > On Walakea's island they were defeated and exterminated by human beings who > had none of our technologies, just (just!) spears, clubs, muscle and human > intellect. They don't seem to learn fast. In addition to spear chucking and net fishing, the tribes who combined to butcher their corrupted foes had another source of aid. Someone (or some... thing?) also left a bunch of star shaped greenish soapstones lying around the island after the attack. There is more to what happened on Walakea's isle than what you present. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James Holloway [j_holloway26@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology > > > The Innsmouth situation was an oppressor (DO's & Hi-B's) attempting to > > maintain control over a situation involving a single human. > >By which I assume you mean that Treasury agent? Unfortunately for your >feeble attempt at logic, there were CoC investigators also present before >the raid. > I think he means the narrator of "Shadow." Or maybe Brian Burnham? > > Actually my bet is that the DO's fought the ET's using magic and numbers >(they can out breed the ET's). Most of the abilities of the DO's have been >limited to magic, genetics, and Alchemical techniques. > Well, maybe. Again, we don't have a very good idea what the DO are up to on the ocean floor. What we've seen of their technology(?) has been predominantly weapons or trade goods. Some of the weapons (I'm thinking in particular of the "throwing stars" and the mapulo) are biological in nature. >You don't know that they can outbreed the Antarcticans. By all available >evidence, the Deep Ones have problems breeding (females eating the young, >setting up towns like Innsmouth to breed, etc), while the Elder Things are >clearly masters of Biotechnology. I see no reason why this shouldn't >include cloning. > In fact, don't I recall that female Deep Ones instinctively kill their young as a kind of population-control reflex? This, it has been argued, is why male Deep Ones are so eager to breed with human females - they dream of expanding the race's numbers in order to swarm their enemies. But a baby-killing instinct? That sounds unlikely to be a useful trait, even for immortals... unless someone a) cooked up the DO from scratch to use as servitors, but didn't want them getting out of hand or b) whupped them in a huge interspecies war and placed this control on them to stop it happening again. >Furthermore, there is almost nothing (other than the use of Shoggoths) that >suggests the Deep Ones ever came into conflict with the Starfish (not that >kind of Starfish... sickoes). Mostly because we haven't much to tell us >when the Deep Ones first evolved. Maybe at the time of Theem'hdra? > Well, it seems likely enough that the shoggoths originated with the Elder Things, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they went directly from ET to DO. Maybe the Star-Spawn picked up a few during the war, and outfitted the DO with them when they first began to worship Cthulhu - whenever that might have been. Many have speculated on the human origins of the Deep Ones - which places them as comparatively recent. If they were building cities before humans, I'm guessing that Cthulhu and/or his Spawn hooked them up with magic and (possibly) biotech based on ET knowledge to give them a "jump-start." This seems a little "interventionist" of Cthulhu to me, but what do I know? -- James Holloway "Okay, and there's nothing in between. It's either grain alcohol in back alleys or a happy world of rodents and feetie pyjamas." "Yes." "I mean, why is that so hard to accept?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 box_nine@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Lumley has the sea shoggoths serving the water-fearing cthonians, so > they can't be that hard to intimidate. Yeah, but doesn't Lumley... SUCK~! Always check your sources :) The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Someone dissing the ancient and honorable art of conspiracy theory On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > That sort of reflex disparagement of the quality of thinking that goes > into conspiracy theoreticamograficationizing just gets my Black Goat. It actually, a reflex disparagement of the quality of thinking. It doesn't matter, and the MiB means IT DOESN'T MATTER~!, if it's conspiracy theory or professional wrestling history, bad thinking is just that. Mine, yours, Snorkey's, and especially yours. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, James Holloway wrote: > But a baby-killing instinct? That sounds unlikely to be a useful trait, even > for immortals... They probably don't munch every baby. Just the tasty ones! Their baby diet is probably based on some hormonal, cyclical, high population crowding kinda thing. A good example of this sort of thing in nature can be found in the excellent Kobolds Ate My Baby RPG. http://9thlevel.com/KAMB/kobolds_index.htm The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 5:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology ----- Original Message ----- From: The Man in Black > Yeah, but doesn't Lumley... SUCK~! Always check your sources :) You sure got that right . . . The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 6:51 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island On 25 April, 2000 AD, The Man in Black said: >His Majesty, Michael Layne, King of Naked Land, waved his royal scepter >back and forth, up and down, and wrote: > > > I had read about the island, myself, but not about the 1980s cleanup > > effort! Here, I was figuring that, if decontamination became necessary, >the > > RAF would need to attend to it -- assuming they had a sufficiently clean > > bomb in inventory that would minimize the fallout getting ashore, while > > still blasting the abovewater portion of the island out of existence... > >Mikey, I'm ashamed of you. Even a nuke would send radioactive Anthrax >laden fallout back to Scotland. Anthrax is best served through the lungs. Would there have been any anthrax in the fallout? It would have all been at Surface Zero of a nuclear burst, after all. Anthrax spores are rugged, but I don't think they are that rugged! For example, the first H-bomb detonation, the MIKE shot at Eniwetok (1 November 1952), yield 10.4 MT, produced a 3.5 mile diameter fireball. Eugelab Island, where the test device was set up, was blown away (replaced by a crater 164 feet deep and 6,240 feet wide, blasted into the sand and coral), and nearby islands were severely damaged by the thermal pulse, blast wave, and ocean surge. (My figures are from "U.S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret History" (Chuck Hansen, 1988, Aerofax, ISBN 0-517-56740-7).) I have a feeling that if there had been any anthrax on Eugelab, none of it would have survived the thermal and ionizing radiation generated by the burst. Spores and anthrax toxin would have been very rapidly broken down by the extreme energies present. Had a similar device been used to sterilize the island off Scotland, no anthrax would have survived to reach the Scottish coast. Some of the elements originally forming the spores and toxin might have, but it wouldn't be anthrax any more! Of course, the MIKE explosion took place on a far-off atoll in the Pacific, while the island we're concerned with is off the coast of Scotland -- inconveniently near civilization and reporters! Had the RAF been ordered to bomb the island with a weapon equivalent to the MIKE device, the immediate effects of the explosion would have been felt many miles away, and the fallout (both radioactive and political) from the detonation would have been highly dangerous, so I really think the MoD would have saved such a measure for an absolute last resort... IIRC, in Clive Cussler's novel "Vixen 03", the (luckily isolated) Pacific island that had been used for the one test of the QD ("Quick Death") bioweapon (which had somehow defeated the NBC protection of a team sent to examine it) was dealt with in similar fashion at the end of the novel -- an American sub launched a nuke at it from off the coast of China, and the press reports suggested this was some sort of Chinese test... >If the stuff is imminent in the earth, then you're at a reduced risk. >Blasting crap into the air will send it back to the mainland. Soaking the >ground with environmentally unfriendly chemical pollutants is the only >option. YAY! BIOWARFARE~! A quite workable solution! But, it is important to remember that most of this stuff is about as toxic as the anthrax toxin, and, like it, doesn't degrade with time! (In theory, this makes it even worse than radioactives, which at least have a half-life -- although the half-life of some nuclear wastes makes this matter only relevant to beings as long-lived as Cthulhu...) Michael Layne DGGF#688 NOT any kind of King -- I don't want the job! theherald@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James & Sarah Collins [collwood@gte.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 7:32 PM To: Delta Green Subject: DG: Unknown Armies Has anyone with a copy of Unknown Armies thought of converting the magic system to Delta Green? Later. James D. Collins Painted Frog Productions From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 9:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Unknown Armies On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:31:44 -0700 James & Sarah Collins wrote: >Has anyone with a copy of Unknown Armies thought of converting the magic >system to Delta Green? Yes--I announced months ago I would be doing it shortly. Yet another failed promise, as other things have taken over my time. If nobody else does it, I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually, maybe this summer when I have some free time. (I also need to revise the Unknown Armies Madness Rules for CoC, finish my part of Emerald Hammer, finish and revise Angel, and more that just merges into a murky realm of pain and madness. But I'm having fun! Oh yes I am.) Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 10:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology At 03:39 PM 4/25/2000 -0400, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Snorkey wrote: > I have some personal doubts about our ability to Depth Charge a DO city. I > don't think the mechanisms could survive the pressure. (They are designed > for much shallower depths). Torpedoes, my man. That's what it was. (Note: I have no idea whether that makes things any more plausible, but even a member of DG Run & Hide recognizes that there's some difference there.) Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island After wondering why he has a royal tailor, Michael Layne wrote: > Would there have been any anthrax in the fallout? It would have all > been at Surface Zero of a nuclear burst, after all. Anthrax spores are > rugged, but I don't think they are that rugged! Hey, I'm no expert, but... > For example, the first H-bomb detonation, the MIKE shot at Eniwetok (1 > November 1952), [KA-BOOM~!] > blasted into the sand and coral The key words here are "sand and coral" rather than imbedded in the topsoil, which Pacific atolls have very little of. Remember, every explosion (even nukes) send debris into the upper atmosphere. > I have a feeling that if there had been any anthrax on Eugelab, none of > it would have survived the thermal and ionizing radiation generated by the > burst. Spores and anthrax toxin would have been very rapidly broken down by > the extreme energies present. Sure, at ground zero. But a nuclear explosion is a lot more than ground zero. > Had a similar device been used to sterilize the island off Scotland, no > anthrax would have survived to reach the Scottish coast. Some of the > elements originally forming the spores and toxin might have, but it wouldn't > be anthrax any more! We don't know how big the island is. If it's a great big bluddy Scottish haggis of an isle, bursting at the seams with Anthrax laden mutton and the deep rich peat moss of the highlands, then mebbe the BAGPIPE detonation would spread Anthrax. Or mebbe not. Tis tricky me laddie. Best ta call ye OAKRIDGE Boyz. > But, it is important to remember that most of this stuff is about as > toxic as the anthrax toxin, and, like it, doesn't degrade with time! At least it doesn't multiply. Or wander off as much. > NOT any kind of King -- I don't want the job! Of course sire. Not a King at all. ALL HAIL HIS MAJESTY~! KING OF ALL THAT IS NAKED~! Maybe you could pass the crown to Lizzie. He could become an *emperor*. The Man in Black is : starting a small little Kingmaking business. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Unearthly threads from above... On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: > Just spotted this on the Porton Down website... > http://www.dra.hmg.gb/html/who_are/history/porton.htm > report that the Germans were releasing some form of vesicant > threads or cobwebs over the UK. Porton looked into the matter and > confirmed that the threads were a natural phenomenon. Gilbert > White, the naturalist, had observed similar concentrations of > airborne gossamer in September 1741. The Scooby-Doo/Scully explanation is spider parachutes. Anyone remember their Charlotte's Web? Baby spiders are almost too tiny to be seen, and hit the road as soon as they land. The remaining webs make people curious. It is theorized that sticky webs that dissolve are ideal for aerial dispersal of biological and chemical agents, both benign and malevolent. The Man in Black is : gonna go talk to some purple arachnid "friends." Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:28 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology At 06:13 PM 4/25/2000 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 box_nine@ix.netcom.com wrote: >> Lumley has the sea shoggoths serving the water-fearing cthonians, so >> they can't be that hard to intimidate. >Yeah, but doesn't Lumley... SUCK~! Always check your sources :) You can hardly disqualify a work of Mythos fiction because it's bad. ;-) Besides, Lumley is extremely relevant here, as he's perhaps the only person who's written a novel-length work (RETURN OF THE DEEP ONES) on this subject. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 11:45 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Spell Changes (was Re: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology At 03:58 PM 4/25/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Daniel wrote: >>> IIRC, Siren's Song only works on similar species. >>Hmmm... That didn't make it into the rulebook version. Or did I >>gloss over it? ;-) >The limitation's there in [ADVENTURE REDACTED], I'm assuming it got cut from the rulebook at some point, along with the more gruesome spell components for various spells. That's a shame, indeed, and almost criminal in its ramifications. Here are two versions of the "Create Fetch Stick" requirements: CoC 5.5: To make a fetch stick, the sorcerer first obtains a bamboo staff and attaches a sharpened iron point to one end. Over the course of the next year, the sorcerer then sacrifices two humans and 2 POW to the fetch stick and attaches the second skull to the stick. This process should cost at least 20 Sanity points, and the keeper should describe it as gruesomely as possible. Fragments of Fear (original): The sorcerer must first obtain a bamboo staff with a sharpened iron point attached to one end. He then sacrifices an adult human on a starless night by plunging the staff through the sacrifice's heart. The sorcerer then sacrifices a point of POW to the embloodied (?) staff. Exactly one year later, the sorcerer must cut off the head of a second human sacrifice and scoop out the brain, then chew off all the remaining flesh from the skull with his own teeth. When he is done, he sacrifices a point of POW to the tattered skull. Then then attaches the skull to the blunt end of the staff, and the fetch stick is finished. See? Now, there will all sorts of disappointed sorcerers running around, having wasted a year for nothing, just because they used those flesh-eating beetles to clean the skull. Sigh. There are probably more examples of this, but I'm too tired to track them down now. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 1:03 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology In a message dated 4/25/00 8:53:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: << > I have some personal doubts about our ability to Depth Charge a DO city. I > don't think the mechanisms could survive the pressure. (They are designed > for much shallower depths). Torpedoes, my man. That's what it was. (Note: I have no idea whether that makes things any more plausible, but even a member of DG Run & Hide recognizes that there's some difference there.) Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. >> Yep. "Only one paper - a tabloid always discounted because of it's wild policy - mentioned the deep-diving submarine that discharged torpedoes downward in the marine abyss just beyond Devil's Reef. This item, gathered by chance in a haunt of sailors, seemed indeed far-fetched; since the low, black reef lies a full mile and a half out from Innsmouth harbor." Incidentally, the first three paragraphs of the story are a must-read for DG fans. Secret meetings with journalists followed by a profound lack of stories about the Raid and the abuses of constitutional rights of US citizens. Irate citizen's rights groups taken for clandestine tours of the holding facilities, followed by a profound lack of further protests. So, the story was more wide-spread than the DG sourcebook indicates, with more eye witnesses. Who were the civilians taken for tours? What did they do afterward? How many journalists knew? Because those guys are famous for keeping secrets he said with tongue poked painfully in cheek. Submariners are good at keeping their lips zipped, *to outsiders*, but how many other 'haunts of sailors' had that story floating around? Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 3:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [Re: DG: Inside the Deep Ones] > Cthulhu's Dream could be a sort of Pocket Dreamland, or just a region of > the DL we have yet to map. <> Then again, the Dreamlands sourcebook postulates the existence of 'Mer-men', deep one-esque fish people who are the product of interbreeding between deep ones and another Dreamlands race, something called the gnorri (who look like beardy folk with fish tails). I don't recall which author's fiction they're derived from (although I smell something Lumley-esque), but their existence certainly suggests the Deep Ones are active in the Dreaming. Regarding Davide's original post, there's already the suggestion of Cthulu's dreams having a physical presence in the real world (Leiber's 'The Terror from the Depths'), adding some credence to your outlandish theory... ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 4:23 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Spell Changes On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:44:56 -0400 Daniel Harms wrote: >That's a shame, indeed, and almost criminal in its ramifications. Here are >two versions of the "Create Fetch Stick" requirements: [gruesome spell comparisons redacted] SOme time back, we called for people to post something like this, to add some "oomph" to the dry spell descriptions. Lots of spells ought to have things like "eat the flesh off the sacrifice's face with you own teeth." But the thread, after some initial enthusiasm, died out. Too bad. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 4:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:33:56 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black wrote: >On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, James Holloway wrote: > >> But a baby-killing instinct? That sounds unlikely to be a useful trait, even >> for immortals... > >They probably don't munch every baby. Just the tasty ones! Their baby diet >is probably based on some hormonal, cyclical, high population crowding >kinda thing. Also, they may not munch their own babies, but rather those of other Deep Ones, a very common trait in many animals. Helps ensure that _your_ kids (and genetic material) have a good shot at the food base and, later, the reproductive arena. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 4:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Karotechia Research On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:11:14 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black wrote: >Body parts to be "buried" Kewl. On an insensitive note, why can't these >morons just have some kind of symbolic funeral so the cadaver guys don't >have to screw around with the yucky bits. Personally, I've requested to be wrapped in a a dirty old blanket and dumped in a hole in the ground, with an apple tree planted on top. Where I'll _rot_, and contribute my nutrients to the tree, and people will eat apples full of _me_, ME! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA! The fact that most people reading this were grossed out at the thought of eating apples with random molecules of a dead person in them is the funniest part of this. Dave It sure wouldn't gross out the Deep Ones. No sir! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 7:07 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Bronsons on tour? At 03:51 PM 4/25/00 -0400, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Jonathan Turner quoted: > >What an idiot. Sez "definitely not a civilian version" then admits >ignorance of DoD markings. I feel for the benefit of my already lacklustre reputation I must thank you for pointing out this is a quote from some other guy... who might look like me, but we ain't related... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 7:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Unknown Armies >From: "James & Sarah Collins" >Has anyone with a copy of Unknown Armies thought of converting the magic >system to Delta Green? > >Later. > >James D. Collins >Painted Frog Productions It's occurred to me a bunch of times, actually. Particularly given that the magic system in CoC, while neat, isn't demanded by the source material. You could easily set up 'hypergeometric' and other styles of 'magic systems', with obvious effects on sanity. This has some nice aspects... it ties magic-users more directly to the reality-warping effects they are handling. Specific rituals slot in easily in UA. Though normally my first thought is to adapt UA's sanity system... which is very nifty! -=Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 7:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: The Wolrd Ends...When? (was Re: DG: Re: Hoyle) On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 00:39:29 EDT LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Yes, inevitable race extinction is part and parcel of the Game. I just >dispute the timeline in the other guy's almanac and suspect we were edited >out of the export version. Anyone (Mr. Harms, I'm glancing sidelong in your direction, then looking quickly away before you notice) care to furnish us with a list of the roughly predicted EndTimes? I know there are several conflicting reports on this--some hav us all being wiped of soon, others put it thousands of years in the future. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 8:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island Michael and MiB were having the following argument.... >> Would there have been any anthrax in the fallout? It would have all >> been at Surface Zero of a nuclear burst, after all. Anthrax spores are >> rugged, but I don't think they are that rugged! > >Hey, I'm no expert, but... [surely not a confession of ignorance by the MiB?! I never thought I'd see the day...] >The key words here are "sand and coral" rather than imbedded in >the topsoil, which Pacific atolls have very little of. Remember, every >explosion (even nukes) send debris into the upper atmosphere. Gruignard is, what, about 2 miles long, less than a mile across IIRC. Even if the spores survived the heat generated in the detonation (highly unlikely) and the radiation liberated didn't blow their genome to bits (again, highly unlikely) then the spores would still have to come into contact with a suitable environment to germinate (like lungs, as MiB acutely points out). Bring into this picture the concept of minimum infectious dose: even for something with a low MID like anthrax or TB, this is not as low as 1 (by which I mean one spore getting into the lung does not necessarily lead to infection). You might need several spores arriving independently within a similar time frame to cause the infection... the entire thing gets a little bit quantum, but is well established in practice. Frankly, I doubt that the spore concentration (even at it's peak) would have been high enough for this scenario to be feasible. Now a direct low yield tactical nuclear hit on a factory making the stuff, or on a storage facility... that would be a different story. >> I have a feeling that if there had been any anthrax on Eugelab, none of >> it would have survived the thermal and ionizing radiation generated by the >> burst. Spores and anthrax toxin would have been very rapidly broken down by >> the extreme energies present The talk of toxins disturns me. Anthrax does involve the production of at least three toxins (protective factor, oedma factor, and lethal factor IIRC) but only by the bacteria after they have germinated from spores. The toxins are never present in the spores, and only help when the bacteria are able to grow fast enough to cause an overwhelming infection. I wonder if you aren't getting mixed up a bit with botulism? >We don't know how big the island is. If it's a great big bluddy Scottish >haggis of an isle, bursting at the seams with Anthrax laden mutton and >the deep rich peat moss of the highlands, then mebbe the BAGPIPE >detonation would spread Anthrax. Or mebbe not. Tis tricky me laddie. Best >ta call ye OAKRIDGE Boyz. Oh c'mon ye great big bludy sassenach t's not that big. Seriously. The photos I've seen of the place let you see straight across the island (one side to the other) from the mainland (it's about 3 miles out). Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jpetheri@cyberbeach.net Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 9:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Fwd: Re: DG: Botox Date: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 at 08:01:27 AM From: Graeme Price Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax island --------------------------------- Michael and MiB were having the following argument.... >The talk of toxins disturns me. Anthrax does involve the production of at >least three toxins (protective factor, oedma factor, and lethal factor >IIRC) but only by the bacteria after they have germinated from spores. The >toxins are never present in the spores, and only help when the bacteria are >able to grow fast enough to cause an overwhelming infection. I wonder if >you aren't getting mixed up a bit with botulism? Hmm, probably the Lizard King or some other American Left Coast resident introduced this meme. Most likely after having just gone for their Botox injections to remove the wrinkles caused by knotting their brow over the erudite discussion on this list. ObDG: I wonder how injections of protoplasm would work as a treatment for wrinkles? Would probably do all sorts of amusing things to a person's appearance. ======================================== John Petherick, CIH e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Did you know ? Cyber Beach has extended its monthly plan to UNLIMITED surfing per month !! Happy Surfing ! http://www.cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! http://www.cyberbeach.net From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MARTIN WOLFF [martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 9:09 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Useful Resources for Deep One Society and Technology > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > > > > The Elder Race created only 'male' shoggoths but gave them a strong > desire > > > to breed. The only way to create new shoggoths is through an 'Aliens' > style > > > implanting. Thus the Elder Race had to trade off Shoggoth numbers > against > > > sacrificing themselves. > > What source does this come from? Or is this a made up thang of your own? > > > > And while we are at it, why did the Shoggoths originally have to implant in > the Elder Race? If human beings or DO will do as well, wouldn't a > domesticated food animal have sufficed? Remember the Elder Race were > carnivores. > OK, I admit it, I made it up. Unless you think a Cthulhu inspired dream is actually from the horses mouth...... And yes, you are right about any type of animal being suitable for implanting but do you think either the Elder Race or the DO told them that? As to the practicality of it, while a shoggoth implanting a gerbil or sardine may be quite pleasurable, neither would live long to give an embryonic shoggoth viability. It could also be said that most land and sea based animals of a suitable size are just too fast for a single shoggoth to catch (what speed does a shoggoth have?) which only leaves slow bipeds (us!). As to the siren call spell, is it a POW vs POW kind of thing? Did someone say that a three DOs to one shoggoth ratio would keep the shoggoths in check. So, what happens when there are more shoggoths? Martin.