From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Zephyr Went to the Zephyr, a restaurant in Ravensbrook, which is a suburb of Chicago, which is about 30 miles away from my home. Anyways, I was looking over the entrees, and lo and behold, they had "A Night at the Opera". ObDG: A way of contacting DG cells? Staff the place with DG friendlys, and have a prearranged code phrase, something like "Alphonse Green highly recommends a Night at the Opera", or whatnot, and deliver a phone number and time to call on the receipt. Calling the number links you with a contact waiting at a payphone; he will speak first, telling you to create an e-mail account with one of the free servers. A message will be sent to the account in ten hours. The message will be encrypted (or something, I'm not too clear on how that works) and will contain instructions for meeting your contact at such-and-such a place---say, an AIDS clinic, where they'll call out for Mr./Ms. [Agent's Cell Code Name] Green to come into the little room. There, another friendly will hand over a packet disguised as a trsting kit with your orders. Read the orders, commit them to memory and leave. Criticisms? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:07 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 EdDrWho@aol.com wrote: > I'm getting ready to run a GURPS DG game soon; my players are all > gunfondlers, so I'm issuing them with pregenerated characters for what I've > told them is a normal FBI game. I can hardly wait for that first surprise > fright check. I dunno, people get fright checks witnessing normal combat in my games. Perceiving a Shan or something requires a Mythos Fright Check. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:19 AM To: Delta Green Subject: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Bodezilla wrote: > This story about the cult in Uganda seems to have the makings of a great > campaign. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject? I have many thoughts. Let's start with the most horrific ones. 1) This is a crosspost between two mailing lists. NEVER FUCKING DO THIS~! 2) We have discussed this to death on the Delta Green Mailing List. You must be a creature of lower than human intelligence not to have lurked long enough to discover the many resources that would have enabled you to learn this small fact. I shudder to think of the other idiocies you must have perpetrated, and will continue to perpetrate. 3) I hate fucking newbies. This seems to have the makings of another stroke. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: My Funeral On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Jason R. Armstrong wrote: > writes: > Goddamn it, stop being so mean. Sure, I'll get right to work on that. > And stop tormenting Mr. Harms. He has enough problems, what with > his internment in Buffalo and all. Certainly, I will henceforth leave Mr. Harms alone. > Do you realize, you EVIL HAWAIIAN FUCK:), that we Buffalonians > are celebrating spring, but were dealing with SNOW up until about two > weeks ago? second> At night, it still goes down to about 36 Fahrenheit, but we're > all acting like it's a tropical paradise...because, for HERE, it IS. It's been hot lately, think I'll go down to the beach tomorrow. > You keep calling Harms a dork. But you forget, your MAGE stuff is > final projects and I'm pretending I've got something to say and I don't > fuckity-fuck. Yeah, that does seem rather unKewl now doesn't it. My dark secrets revealed... to CORRUPT YOU~! and YOU~! and YOUandYOUandYOU~! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Zephyr On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 EdDrWho@aol.com wrote: > Anyways, I was looking over the entrees, and lo and behold, they had "A Night > at the Opera". What was it, you fucking tease? Can you smell what ALPHONSE is cookin'? > Calling the number links you with a contact waiting at a payphone; he will > speak first, telling you to create an e-mail account with one of the free > servers. I like the idea the list spat out about hiding coded messages in newsgroup spam. That seems best. Unless you use the Delta Green Secure Server... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MacMourna@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 1:46 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me In a message dated 00-04-28 02:21:51 EDT, "MIB" wrote: << 3) I hate newbies. This seems to have the makings of another stroke. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject? >> Yes, I have a few ideas and opinions on the subject. There was absolutely no need for such a billigerant response to the sender of the Ugandan-cult mail. If he made a mistake, there are better, and entirely more civilized ways to help correct the mistake, other than attacking him, and insulting his intelligence. We were all newbies at one time, and many of us still are. Please, try to be more considerate of those who are new, and are trying to contribute. Making such horrible statements to someone who makes a mistake or you disagree is not going to bring any new people to the list, and will inspire others not to post, or present new ideas to us, if such hostility continues. In fact, the only person that has demonstrated they are of "lower intelligence" is you yourself. Bruce From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 2:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 02:46:18 EDT MacMourna@aol.com wrote: >There was absolutely no need for such a billigerant response to the sender of >the Ugandan-cult mail. [snip] Uh-oh, here we go again. Unfortunately, we still do not have a FAQ posted. If we did, you would know all about the MiB and would have realized that he was actually exuding rays of love and huggles in that post. I made the same mistake once, myself, back in the early days of the list, before I realized that the list would just not be the same without the MiB and his...colorful...personality. (I'm not saying the list would be worse off, just different.) Besides, the MiB had a troubled childhood. He served ten years for shooting a man just to watch him die. He's had a Shan egg implanted in his brain. And we, who want to preserve our reps as nice guys and gals, have saddled him with the unofficial post of "newbie savager." When someone screws up, we know the MiB will rip into them, so we don't have to bother pointing out problems ourselves. Is it any wonder he gets a little...extreme? He is also a Darwinian force--anyone who can see past the abuse and realize it's a big, long-running joke (and yet serious! , in its way) not only feels "in," but even proud of having "survived the MiB." Dave (just knows the MiB is going to rip into him for that) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 3:43 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Unearthly threads from above... At 07:56 PM 4/28/00 -0600, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Go to your local library and check back back issues of Aviation Week >for details of the anti-power plant weapons used by USAF in recent >bombings. If you heard this story recently, it might be that the >glass-aluminum (not carbon fiber) threads used by these specialized >bombs were transformed by rumor and hearsay into the story you >report. > Uhhhh... they weren't developed for use during the Bosnian conflict, and certainly not during the 18th century, unless it was the Yithians again. But thanks anyway... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 3:50 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Unearthly threads from above... ----- Original Message ----- From: Til Eulenspiegel > Go to your local library and check back back issues of Aviation Week > for details of the anti-power plant weapons used by USAF in recent > bombings. If you heard this story recently, it might be that the > glass-aluminum (not carbon fiber) threads used by these specialized > bombs were transformed by rumor and hearsay into the story you > report. > You are right - I remembered something like that but could not place it. Taking this to a more wild extreme - threads as a delivery system for Chemical/Biological weapons - if you have a many small dense objects that you want to drop from on high to be distributed about the countryside, much the best way to arrange it is to attach each of them to a long thread. This works as well as, and is far cheaper than, a small parachute. As has been mentioned, spiders use this trick. Delivery of tailored insect vectors? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 4:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Unearthly threads from above... On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > Taking this to a more wild extreme - threads as a delivery system for > Chemical/Biological weapons - if you have a many small dense objects that > you want to drop from on high to be distributed about the countryside, much > the best way to arrange it is to attach each of them to a long thread. This > works as well as, and is far cheaper than, a small parachute. As has been > mentioned, spiders use this trick. Delivery of tailored insect vectors? Vector delivery is unreliable at best, as the Japanese discovered in WW2. Most modern bioweapons are designed for an aerosol delivery method which tests have shown can be highly effective (see Biohazard by Ken Alibek for example). ObDG: That is unless there is something *special* about the vectors you want to deliver... Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 4:40 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war ----- Original Message ----- From: David.Clements > Vector delivery is unreliable at best, as the Japanese discovered in WW2. > Most modern bioweapons are designed for an aerosol delivery method which > tests have shown can be highly effective (see Biohazard by Ken Alibek for > example). > > ObDG: That is unless there is something *special* about the vectors you > want to deliver... Fair point. Actually I was thinking of insects (or micro-robots) being used _directly_ as biological weapons, rather than as vectors for microbes. Some insects have a very nasty bite/sting indeed. Suppose they could be genetically manipulated to a state where, instead of sensibly hiding and using their poison as a last resort, the way evolution mandates, they attacked everything that smelt human? (or DO?) Scenario:- Find insect or other arthropod species with lethal sting. Find a neurochemical in insect brain that suppresses aggressive behaviour. Knock out gene, breed insects deficient in it. To stop them killing each other do it in sealed environment saturated with neurochemical When they are wanted for war - scoop 'em up and drop 'em down. Chemical mist clears and your drop zone is full of horrid wriggling things that kill. But they must be well dispersed or they will kill each other. Threads could be necessary to stop big uns splatting, though. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 5:13 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > Oh, dear. > H.E.P.,now - do you too feel the hot breath of the engineers waiting at > your back to ransack your hut, burn down the village and steal your women, > not to mention get the few jobs available? I gave in and joined The Enemy years ago. Sob, sob. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 5:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David.Clements > > Vector delivery is unreliable at best, as the Japanese discovered in WW2. > > Most modern bioweapons are designed for an aerosol delivery method which > > tests have shown can be highly effective (see Biohazard by Ken Alibek for > > example). > > > > ObDG: That is unless there is something *special* about the vectors you > > want to deliver... > > > Fair point. Actually I was thinking of insects (or micro-robots) being used > _directly_ as biological weapons, rather than as vectors for microbes. > > Some insects have a very nasty bite/sting indeed. > > Suppose they could be genetically manipulated to a state where, instead of > sensibly hiding and using their poison as a last resort, the way evolution > mandates, they attacked everything that smelt human? (or DO?) I'm not sure what such a scheme would buy you that chemical or biological attacks would not. If you want a rapid effect then chemical weapons will do, while a longer term, and persistant effect would come from bioweapons. What would insects do that bugs and chemicals can't? This may be getting OT... Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 6:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war ----- Original Message ----- From: David.Clements > > > > Suppose they could be genetically manipulated to a state where, instead of > > sensibly hiding and using their poison as a last resort, the way evolution > > mandates, they attacked everything that smelt human? (or DO?) > > I'm not sure what such a scheme would buy you that chemical or biological > attacks would not. If you want a rapid effect then chemical weapons will > do, while a longer term, and persistant effect would come from > bioweapons. What would insects do that bugs and chemicals can't? > You are probably right. However I have a feeling that if we put some concentrated research into it we might get something useful out. Here are some points that occur to me:- Microbes are unreliable weapons because they must be reproductively capable to be effective so it is very hard to limit their spread. Insects can be sterilised, for example. Insects can crawl, burrow and chew their way into protected areas and through protective clothing Very small amounts of chemical weapon can kill, but these "lethal doses" all assume that 100% of the agent reaches its human target. In fact that does not happen. http://lib-sh.lsumc.edu/fammed/grounds/biowar.html for example states that "if 900 kG of Sarin was released over Wasington DC there would be 2000-8000 deaths. That is one death for every 100g of chemical agent, and that is in a densely populated metropolitan area. Insects, OTOH, can range about and search for targets. Imagine if it was possible to "bomb" with insects that were like bees but were adapted 1) to have a one-time-lethal sting 2) to find and sting anything human 3) to fly at up to 20 km/hr for short periods (as bees can) 4) to die after 30 minutes. Just an idea. As you say, it may be OT, so we'll leave it there unless anyone else wants to take it up. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Zephyr In a message dated 4/28/00 1:33:50 AM Central Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: > What was it, you fucking tease? Can you smell what ALPHONSE is cookin'? Oh, it was a great big chocolate shake. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Pencis [cpencis@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me PLEASE PLEASE DONT TEASE THE MIB LIKE THIS... Actually the MIB generated Neo-FAQ explained that he is the newbie detector. When someone posts an objection to his 'style' - newbie. He's kind of a cross between the uncle-no-one-talks about and a reborn Sam Kenison on acid. Face it... we've all been marked, now you're one of the club. Trying to find an OBdg (OBligatory Delta Green reference): ok... anyone think DG runs agents through a gauntlet (other than the mythos of course)... any kind of Nitzchean (shit its too early - can't spell) "that which does not kill us makes us stronger" weed out? Or is that much more of a kult/Fate/Enolsis higher eschelons thing? Chris   MacMourna@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 00-04-28 02:21:51 EDT, "MIB" wrote: << 3) I hate newbies. This seems to have the makings of another stroke. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject? >> Yes, I have a few ideas and opinions on the subject. There was absolutely no need for such a billigerant response to the sender of the Ugandan-cult mail. If he made a mistake, there are better, and entirely more civilized ways to help correct the mistake, other than attacking him, and insulting his intelligence. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) >Actually, Delta Green: Countdown has Psychic powers. Hmm. This must explain the curious sensation of being watched I get when I'm near the bookcase..... Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:32 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me The MiB wrote: > On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Bodezilla wrote: >1) This is a crosspost between two mailing lists. NEVER FUCKING DO >THIS~! Oh. Good thing we've never EVER had crossposts from Strange Aeons before. >2) We have discussed this to death on the Delta Green Mailing List. >You must be a creature of lower than human intelligence not to have >lurked long enough to discover the many resources that would have >enabled you to learn this small fact. I shudder to think of the >other idiocies you must have perpetrated, and will continue to >perpetrate. >From what I recall of the "discussion to death," it consisted largely of "How come nobody ever stops these cults before they do these sorts of things?" and the usual grumbling about civil rights. >3) I hate fucking newbies. This seems to have the makings of another >stroke. Does anyone have any ideas on the subject? I hate people that hate fucking newbies. But I could be biased 'cause Amanda's in my Delta Green game. Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 7:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) >From: Qstor@aol.com >Hi all! > >I'm running a GURPS Delta green game in the Washington DC area. Its just >starting up and I had a 2 questions. >1.Does anyone use Psi powers in Delta Green? CoC is pretty ritual magic >based >and I assume it has no place for Psi powers. ... >Thanks all! >Mike I have used psychics in DG to good effect. The thing to remember is that in CoC the universe is bigger and stranger than humanity knows. Given the period Lovecraft wrote in, mysticism and the sense of 'lost lore' was big, and included psychic phenomena. A lot of the 'sensitives' and dreams that Lovecraft wrote about fit, at least partially, with psychics. The key is to make psi very quirky and chancy. Countdown has excellent notes on limitations of psychic phenomena. In my games, I created the system outlined in http://wtimmins.tripod.com/DG/endtime/etpsi.html. Essentially, psychic skills are very very specific (I can see far off events, provided they are about horses in some way), and have the danger of 'bleed' (Cthulhu is dreaming about a horse. Uh oh. Hi Cthulhu! OOp, there goes my mind...) In a campaign, psychics can be useful to provide additional horror or atmosphere, particularly if you handle psychic perceptions as a bit vague or symbolic. YOu can use foreshadowing and atmosphere, as the psychic of the group goes wiggy while the group is walking by an old house... Essentially, things like psychics can be tools for the Keeper. Two of my players had psychics in past games. One was a psychometrist, of sorts, the other had the ability to see the imminent death of those he looked at. The psychometrist was handy in a ghost scenario I had, getting clues as to what was going on. Also good for seeding clues and being able to pipe the information I wanted to the players in a creepy way. The 'death seer' was very handy in establishing atmosphere. In a very funny turn of events, the party he was with pissed him off and he went off to do his thing. Alas, if they had had him around, they wouldn't have broken a crystal skull. The crystal skull was a siphon of death magic that a corrupted friendly was using. They killed the guy by breaking it. Yay! They also opened a hole into a realm of entropy, a hole that got increasingly wide and turned those near it into brain-eating zombies. Uh oh. So the death seer is walking about town, and suddenly sees someone is about to die... sees his gnawed skull... then turns, sees someone else is about to sprout sores and go all horrid. Then sees ... everyone. Everyone is about to die. Ah, I love scenes like that. (He escaped with another character who, due to a broken leg, was further from ground zero.) -=Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jpetheri@cyberbeach.net Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:23 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Hey, You! Yes, you, the kid with the beer! I bet that all of thought that public health officials and epidemiologists in particular were just a bunch of boring losers. But they're not, honestly. Sure, they are abnormally fascinated with numbers and can discuss statistics to the point of eye-glazing boredom among normal people. Umm, umm, well maybe they could be called boring but they aren't that bad. Honestly, they're nowhere near as boring as actuaries. But, every once in a while they come out with something like this. So all you adolescents on the list pay attention. It's one more thing that you are supposed to do when you're drinking. http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4916a3.htm ======================================== John Petherick, CIH e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Did you know ? Cyber Beach has extended its monthly plan to UNLIMITED surfing per month !! Happy Surfing ! http://www.cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! http://www.cyberbeach.net From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:16 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 11:14:53 +0100 (BST) "David.Clements" (no relation to SuperDave) wrote: >I'm not sure what such a scheme would buy you that chemical or biological >attacks would not. If you want a rapid effect then chemical weapons will >do, while a longer term, and persistant effect would come from >bioweapons. What would insects do that bugs and chemicals can't? > >This may be getting OT... THis is one of those "getting OT may be OK" things, unlike perennial discussions of Heinlein or Lumley. I can see this coming back around into something really interesting that we could all use in our games and perhaps even making its way into a DG supplement. Or not. You never know. Dave (accept no substitutes) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:34:07 EDT William Timmins wrote: >Essentially, psychic skills are very very specific (I can see far off >events, provided they are about horses in some way), and have the danger of >'bleed' (Cthulhu is dreaming about a horse. Uh oh. Hi Cthulhu! OOp, there >goes my mind...) This is the big thing about psi in Countdown: you can have it, sure, but it tends to mean you've got greatly accelerated SAN loss. So no good for munchkins. Unless they don't care about lasting very long, which is sometimes the case. :-P Enjoyed the "death seer" story. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jpetheri@cyberbeach.net Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me On Friday, April 28, 2000 at 04:25:15 AM, Chris Pencis wrote: > PLEASE PLEASE DONT TEASE THE MIB LIKE THIS... Actually the MIB generated > Neo-FAQ explained that he is the newbie detector. When someone posts an > objection to his 'style' - newbie. > > He's kind of a cross between the uncle-no-one-talks about and a reborn Sam > Kenison on acid. Face it... we've all been marked, now you're one of the > club. > And long-time participants on the list can debate the merits of "New MiB" versus "Old MiB". He had a pretty convinving explanation, but in the absence of physical evidence some still believe that the new MiB is merely a Shan host shell. ObDG: DG intrudes on the home life of an agent when they begin to exhibit markedly different behaviour following a "Night at the Opera". Since DG does have in-house or discreet medical support, they presumably have a similar arrangement for psychological support. If you have a public meltdown, or something that can't be concealed, the example of Agent Darren suggests that you get little or nothing in terms of visible support, if you can keep your mouth shut. Presumably, Andrea visits if you don't. ======================================== John Petherick, CIH e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Did you know ? Cyber Beach has extended its monthly plan to UNLIMITED surfing per month !! Happy Surfing ! http://www.cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! http://www.cyberbeach.net From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MARTIN WOLFF [martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:32 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones > > > Remember, the longer they live, the larger they get, so only the puniest > > show up to chuck spears at tommy-gun wielding Gunnery Sergeants. > > > > A damn good point and I did forget it. They get bigger and bigger until > they reach the size of the creature in "Dagon" - twenty meters or more long. > And of course once they are more than three or four meters they can't get > around on land no more. Square-cube rule and all. > That adds another dimension to the DO cities. It is real difficult to design a house that is suitable for a 7 foot something basket ball player and his 5 foot something wife. Imagine the difficulties of coping with creatures that range from human to 20 meters. Alternative one: The DO have separate cities where DO of similar size live. When you outgrow one, you move onto the next (like the school system). Devil Reef would have been a small DO one. This alternative creates a more hierarchical DO social structure. Alternative two: They all live within a single city but areas vary in size for the various sized DO. It could be a linear change from one end of the city to the other or a circular one where the architecture grows towards the center. Perhaps Devil Reef was the obvious small DO area while the assumed natural rock formations around it were the habitat of the bigger ones. This structure maintains the hierarchy but makes it more authoritarian. Alternative three: They all live together. The city consists of a basic structure suitable for the larger ones but cut within the walls are channels that the smaller ones more commonly use to avoid being squashed by the bigger ones. Here the big ones don't care too much about the smaller ones. The small ones only hang around for protection of the larger ones. Alternative four: The small ones live in cities but the big ones have no need of them and live a more solitary life in caves or similar. As the big ones would not commonly be seen, this creates a more mystic society where the larger ones are more the stuff of legend. Do any of these seem more likely than the others. And no, this isn't a poll. Martin. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:46 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) In a message dated 4/27/00 7:14:58 PM Central Daylight Time, Qstor@aol.com writes: << Does anyone use Psi powers in Delta Green? >> Countdown has mind-powers in it I believe. I know I use em :) -Ken- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war Inspired by Mr. Farrell, I'll continue... On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David.Clements > > > > > > Suppose they could be genetically manipulated to a state where, instead > of > > > sensibly hiding and using their poison as a last resort, the way > evolution > > > mandates, they attacked everything that smelt human? (or DO?) > > > > I'm not sure what such a scheme would buy you that chemical or biological > > attacks would not. If you want a rapid effect then chemical weapons will > > do, while a longer term, and persistant effect would come from > > bioweapons. What would insects do that bugs and chemicals can't? > > > > > You are probably right. However I have a feeling that if we put some > concentrated research into it we might get something useful out. > > Here are some points that occur to me:- > > Microbes are unreliable weapons because they must be reproductively > capable to be effective so it is very hard to limit their spread. Insects > can be sterilised, for example. Modern weaponized strains of bacteria and viruses are often not that easy to transmit horizontally. In some cases (VEE, or Venuzualan Equine Encephalitus) they're not even human diseases, and they are generally delivered in a form that produces disease very different from the usual infective process eg. weaponized Anthrax is delivered straight to the lungs via aerosol spores. Its very deadly in this form, unlike the usual black skin leasions, and difficult to treat as well. However, its also very difficult to transmit from person to person, so their spread is much easier to control. The Russians, it is alledged, learned this lesson at Stalingrad where a Tularemia attack on the Nazis eventually spread back into their own troops. Control of weaponized organisms has thus been a priority. Many fo the weaponized strains are also susceptible to UV radiation (especially true of viruses) so an infected area can become clear fairly rapidly. This doesn't work for some agents, of course, as Gruinard demonstrated for Anthrax spores. > Insects can crawl, burrow and chew their way into protected areas and > through protective clothing This is true and might be an interesting option. Controlling *what* they chew and burrow through may be difficult though, and having them burrow out of their home laboratory would not be good... > Very small amounts of chemical weapon can kill, but these "lethal > doses" all assume that 100% of the agent reaches its human target. In fact > that does not happen. http://lib-sh.lsumc.edu/fammed/grounds/biowar.html > for example states that "if 900 kG of Sarin was released over Wasington DC > there would be 2000-8000 deaths. That is one death for every 100g of > chemical agent, and that is in a densely populated metropolitan area. And bioweapons are much more effective. This same site states: 2.If 900 kg of sarin was released over Washington D.C. estimated 2000-8000 deaths, if anthrax used would result in 1-3 million deaths Also there is an issue of the target here. If you're going after an army in the field, chemical weapons might be more effective since there are fewer houses/cellars/metro stations to hide in. But if they're warned, your targets may be in CBW suits and better protected than civilians. So I'm not sure that the insects would be needed in this context since anthrax or similar would probably do better (1-3 million bees is a lot of bees!). > Insects, OTOH, can range about and search for targets. Imagine if it > was possible to "bomb" with insects that were like bees but were adapted > 1) to have a one-time-lethal sting > 2) to find and sting anything human > 3) to fly at up to 20 km/hr for short periods (as bees can) > 4) to die after 30 minutes. ObDG: There's a lot of potential in the old biowarefare apparatus for conspiracies to operate. I've transplanted some of this to the US for my DG campaign - a privatised ex-biowar plant is being used to do experiments on Cookbook data and is also trying its hand at genetic engineering aided by stolen Shub-Niggurath milk. Very messy. But the real scary stuff is what was done in the USSR, which had a vast weaponization and production programme for bioweapons (at least according to Ken Alibek in 'Biohazard'). And much of the apparatus and expertise remains to this day. One of their scary developments were mini-bioreactors which can churn out large amounts of weapons material in a device smaller than a filing cabinet. They were specifically designed so they could be moved and hidden rapidly in the event of weapons inspections. Richard Preston features these in his book The Cobra Event, where they've been shipped to Iraq, and other places, for weapons manufanture and development. Add this shady world of high tech biowarfare to the Mythos and something very nasty could result. What was that someone said about a supplement????? Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Psych Support (was Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide) On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:34:56 -0400 (EDT) wrote: >He had a pretty convinving explanation, but in the absence of physical >evidence some still believe that the new MiB is merely a Shan host shell. Yes, what REALLY happened to the MiB? I think the egg in his brain is still growing, myself. >ObDG: DG intrudes on the home life of an agent when they begin to exhibit >markedly different behaviour following a "Night at the Opera". Since DG >does have in-house or discreet medical support, they presumably have a >similar arrangement for psychological support. That's what "Doc" was all about. A former agent from the Cowboy Years, broke down, cut off some of his own body parts and spent a long time in the looney hatch. Gets out, gets a degree in psych therapy, and becomes a Friendly, specializing in agents who can't go to the regular head-shrinkers. Being able to take select cases into the Dreamlands is a major bonus, though they have to be carefully chosen or it might make their condition worse. Sometimes it results in an Agent who is also a Dreamer, a very useful resource in certain situations. (The dogs are part therapy--having a dog lay its head in your lap is very calming, as long as you're not afraid of dogs, of course--and part security--somebody has to guard the dreamers' bodies. And Doc likes them.) Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MARTIN WOLFF [martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 8:54 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology > Is New World Industries getting the better brains in the market, and the > least morally restrained researchers? > Is this bad or what? > Currently, in many non-engineering industries, the better brains are heading to the pre-IPO startups not the big boys. After all, NASA has the hardware skill to send a probe a gazillion miles to Mars only for some dufus (?) to mess the landing software up (OK that's not the real reason the probe never made it, but anyway). ObDG: If a big company is going to create a robot or similar, it's the software that is most likely to go wrong. Where as if the company is small, make the software better than the hardware. Martin. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:00 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG:Inside the Deep Ones On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:31:57 -0400 MARTIN WOLFF wrote: >Alternative three: They all live together. The city consists of a basic >structure suitable >for the larger ones but cut within the walls are channels that the smaller ones >more >commonly use to avoid being squashed by the bigger ones. Here the big ones don't >care too much about the smaller ones. The small ones only hang around for >protection >of the larger ones. This reminds me of the very applicable "bigger fish eat little fish" song sung by children in the aftermath of the big quake in [adventure name redacted--if you've read it, you know it]. The theme is, of course, that we humans are little fish indeed. Today I was reading the fine article on Great White sharks in the April 2000 National Geographic. It was written by Peter Benchley, the guy who wrote Jaws (and has since come to love sharks), and I was struck many times by how easy it would be to replace the word "shark" with "Deep One" in many places. Which tells you how deeply enmeshed I've become in this list. Anyway, it's a good read and I think there are definite parallels with the mental outlook of Dep Ones and Great Whites. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:04 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: To Clear The Earth ----- Original Message ----- From: > I bet that all of thought that public health officials and epidemiologists in particular were > just a bunch of boring losers. But they're not, honestly. No no. Every so often I browse the HIV/AIDS death statistics just for fun. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:13 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: RE: Inside the Deep Ones ----- Original Message ----- From: MARTIN WOLFF > Alternative four: The small ones live in cities but the big ones have no need of > them and live a more solitary life in caves or similar. Look at "Dagon", where (on a carven stone) a "very deep sea" society of DO appears to be diagrammed. The DO there are all the same size, more or less, and all as big as whales. This suggests that the DO live assortively by size. Perhaps as they "graduate" to larger and larger sizes they move deeper and deeper. The greatest and oldest serve and guard Ryleh. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:47:01 +0100 (BST) "David.Clements" wrote: >Inspired by Mr. Farrell, I'll continue... [gnashing teeth] That's Farnell, you, you...Dave! (Sorry...if I had a nickel for all the magazine subscriptions that listed me as David Farrell, I'd have a whole lotta nickels.) [lots of interesting bio-weapon info redacted] Not that I want to squelch the thread (particualrly after just encouraging it), but the Ice Cave shoud have a rather extensive thread on diseases and another on horrid little creatures (with a wonderfully apocalyptic ending IIRC). THis might make interesting reading for anyone who salivates at the sound of this subject. >What was that someone said about a supplement????? That was me, 90% joking. But there have been some rare instances where people on this list presented such wonderful ideas that they eventually found themselves writing for Pagan (and yes, Graeme, I not only read your COuntdown bits, but proudly pointed them out to a game shop owner pal in Texas and said, "I know this guy!" like a demented fanboy. Happy now?). And surely some of the themes appearing here have percolated into the brains of Pagan writers and influenced them, just as an idea-sharing envirnment ought to do. Like HPL's very own circle. Dave (a yahoo search for David Farnell turns up a rather extensively published writer on Christian theology--he must be the anti-Dave! Or maybe *I* am...) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war and Ratwar ----- Original Message ----- From: David.Clements > Inspired by Mr. Farrell, I'll continue... > > And he did . . . All good points: But what I am trying to evaluate is the future potential of "biological weaponry" in the context of "tailored" insect and arthropod life. This seems to me to be the next step "up" from tailored microbial life, which we are pretty much masters of now. Give us twenty more years of genetic research (or hints from the Mi-Go) and we may be able to tailor insects. Insects have a simple nervous system, which it may be possible to control and tune in relatively sophisticated ways. There is, for example, the control of insect agents through pheremones: the insects could be bred to leave soldiers dosed in certain chemicals unhurt, but to stay close to them. Spray your troops with agent X, flood the battlefield with mutant bees of matching strain not-X, and away you go. As your soldiers advance the bees stay near them (say within 100 meters) but sting everyone *else*. Any positive ideas extrapolating along those or similar lines? ---- **** ---- Or, what about Ratwar? Do the same thing, but with rats - faster and cleverer than insects. There was a bit in an early Alan Moore comic (Halo Jones?) about this. The rats - not genetic mutants, just everyday rats - were controlled by a "tail-tied king" - a collective rat-brain made up by seven rats with their tails locked in a knot. AFAIK the Rat King is a real legend. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Frank Frey (SOK) [ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 9:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaignmaterial to me ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad!" Salvador Dali ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, wrote: > On Friday, April 28, 2000 at 04:25:15 AM, Chris Pencis wrote: > > > PLEASE PLEASE DONT TEASE THE MIB LIKE THIS... Actually the MIB generated > > Neo-FAQ explained that he is the newbie detector. When someone posts an > > objection to his 'style' - newbie. > > > > He's kind of a cross between the uncle-no-one-talks about and a reborn Sam > > Kenison on acid. Face it... we've all been marked, now you're one of the > > club. > > What a wonderful joyous privilege to be "marked". I'm so happy I could just shit!!:-) > > And long-time participants on the list can debate the merits of "New MiB" versus "Old MiB". > > He had a pretty convinving explanation, but in the absence of physical evidence some still believe that the new MiB is merely a Shan host shell. > That's not what I've heard. I keep hearing rumors that the MIB's real father is Mister Shiny. That may explain a great deal or it may not. Does it matter... > ObDG: DG intrudes on the home life of an agent when they begin to exhibit markedly different behaviour following a "Night at the Opera". Since DG does have in-house or discreet medical support, they presumably have a similar arrangement for psychological support. > Behaving strangely as compared to what?? > If you have a public meltdown, or something that can't be concealed, the example of Agent Darren suggests that you get little or nothing in terms of visible support, if you can keep your mouth shut. Presumably, Andrea visits if you don't. > See my above comment...or don't see it. > > ======================================== > John Petherick, CIH > > e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net > > > ----------------------------------------------- > Did you know ? > > Cyber Beach has extended its monthly plan to > UNLIMITED surfing per month !! > > Happy Surfing ! > > http://www.cyberbeach.net > ----------------------------------------------- > Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! > http://www.cyberbeach.net > > > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 10:03 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war and Ratwar On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David.Clements > > All good points: > > But what I am trying to evaluate is the future potential of "biological > weaponry" in the context of "tailored" insect and arthropod life. > > This seems to me to be the next step "up" from tailored microbial life, > which we are pretty much masters of now. Give us twenty more years of > genetic research (or hints from the Mi-Go) and we may be able to tailor > insects. This is possibly true, but I don't think we've seen the full impact of genetic engineering on microbial (for which I take bacteriological) or viral agents yet. The Russions were really only getting into this at the end of the 80s. Much of what had been done up to then was optimising delivery mechanisms and breeding the most useful (antibiotic resistant, virulent, stable, deadly) strains. Add genetic engineering and you can blend the effects of, say, Ebola, Smallpox and Rabies into one happy bumper fun pack. This may be the stage we're at today or will be soon... > Insects have a simple nervous system, which it may be possible to control > and tune in relatively sophisticated ways. Interesting through - there is a fungus that infects and kills insects which, in the later stages, makes them climb to the top of grass stalks and cling to them as they die. This ensures the best dispersal of the fungal spores. Meanwhile, fire ants are set to all sting at the smae time through the release of a pheromone signal... > There is, for example, the control of insect agents through pheremones: > the insects could be bred to leave soldiers dosed in certain chemicals > unhurt, but to stay close to them. > > Spray your troops with agent X, flood the battlefield with mutant bees of > matching strain not-X, and away you go. As your soldiers advance the bees > stay near them (say within 100 meters) but sting everyone *else*. And then the rain comes along and washes agent X off all your men????? :-) > Any positive ideas extrapolating along those or similar lines? ObDG: As far as the GOO and Mi-Go are concerned, are we so far separated from the insects? > Or, what about Ratwar? Do the same thing, but with rats - faster and > cleverer than insects. Reminds me of an old Doomwatch (The Year of the Rat????) where superintelligent rats got loose on a housing estate... Dave