From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 1:14 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war and Ratwar ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew John Farrow > also IIRC the compound eyes of insects are sensetive to light frequenceis > outside visual spectrom ( i vaguely remeber something about bees beeing > able to track the sun as part of thier dance to tell the hive where to > forage ) That's right: many insects (and birds) see furthur into the UV than we do. Some flowers have vivid UV patterns on them we are blind to. http://www.foto.no/pinhole/nikon/uvstart.html Also some insects are sensitive to the polarisation of light. This helps them navigate by the sun even in 100% overcast. If we were sensitive to the vibration plane of light it would be like having a whole new "colour" dimension to explore. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 1:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology ----- Original Message ----- From: Janusz A. Urbanowicz > I know a lot of physicists, biochemists working nights as DTP operators and > days as scientists - to survive and work with things they like. Noble fellows! Here in the "West" a very large proportion finally end up dropping their day jobs. ObDG - Yes, hiring from Eastern Europe or the Third World is obvious. Even better - send what you are doing to India. India has a booming DP industry (5 billion dollars a year, growing 30% a year) based entirely on doing work for US and EU clients across an internet link. Considering the small amounts of materiel involved if might be possible to do something similar with e.g. dodgy genetic engineering, particularly if you could split it up into multiple unrelated pieces and send each piece to a different lab. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 3:59 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: FAQ and MiB's Brain (was Re: DG: Psych Support) Greetings. The do not call him SuperDave for nothing, and he writes.... >*Overview >*Netiquette >*Recurring Threads and Where to Find THem in the Ice Cave (with strong reminder that we welcome new insights/questions on old topics) >*WHy the MiB is such an asshole (hey, that was *his* title, not mine!)--perhaps with insights from various listmembers on the MiB phenomenon, positive and negative >*Stuff to Avoid Because It Tends to Start Flame Wars (or How to Talk about Authors/Movies/Nationalities/Religions in a Civilized and Constructive Manner) >*DG Fiction, Humor, Items of Mutual Interest, and In-Character Posts (are welcome--with blanket "May INclude Graphic Descriptions and Unsettling Situations" warning) >*Useful URLs: Delta Green, Tynes-Cowan Corp, Ice Cave, Archives, Section 8, DGML Member Directory, Chaosium >*Miscellaneous (commonly encountered slang, weird list memes, 23, etc) Excellent. There are two messages of mine floating somewhere in the net (frigging provider!!!!) from last night, in one of which I volunteered for the FAQ job, and which includes my tentative outline. This one is infinitely better, so I say let's go with this one. BUT - the DGML Directory is an Eyes Only document, so I'd leave the URL out of the public version of the FAQ. There, it can be replaced with the line: 'As soon as you feel at ease, ask us about the Directory. Just say Alphonse sent you.' >Now let's apportion it out and get writing. [snippage] Again excellent. If all person mentioned are willing, let's do it this way. <<<< So who will be our overall Compiler, who whips this into shape? Alphonse? ANd what more (or less) do we need? Let's not spend too mch time talking about it--after all, we can always change it later.>>>> As I said, I already volunteered for the job, but feel free to kick me out and replace me. No, seriously. If somebody else wants the post, it's his/hers. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:19 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology Greetings. Thanks to Alex for a fair and sharp dose of common sense >It is not for 'mercenary minded scientist'. Just go for the poorer countries. Right right right. And please place Italy in the 'poor country' section, too. >I finished my studies in Physics last year (still have to get my M.Sc.). >Then I had a choice: go as postgrad, aiming at at Ph.D. in four years - you >get about $200 a month/person (this is enough for living if living in a >dorm, a commercial rent will take about $100-$200), go find yourself a job >(no experience in the business) - about $300-$500 (this is the direct pay - >the amount you get 'on hand' the actual one before taxes and social security >is about twice and social security gives you free medical service) in my >city, or wait for a miracle. Same here - the figures are different, but basically they offer you the least possible and ask for superhuman effort. The basic pay of a scientifically-trained individual on his first job (IF he gets a job) is barely enough to cover housing expences - let's say 700 US$ tops. Eating, keeping warm and leisure are generally out of your reach, unless your family supports you or you take two posts. Having a spouse to pull resources with can help, but not much. Curiously enough (or maybe not), it's a lot easier to find a job if you already have one; which is crazy, but figures: after all, if you already have one, you'll accept the second at a lower pay, as it only has to roound-up your income. And I could go on forever, but before you are forced to use water cannons on me, I better close with a small, on-topic-ish observation. If the best trick the Devil ever played on us was convincing us he did not exist, then the best trick the big companies have pulled on Italian workers is convincing them they are members of the master class, not of the employed. I've met people that was running on my same pityful wage, no less than ten hours a day when the contract said eight, doing anything from accounting to floor-washing in the same working day, and still feeding ultra-aggressive palaeo-capitalist crap to new colleagues and underlings - stuff in the class 'I'm here to pay your wage so you better jump when I say'. They are able to tolerate (and in fact, to approve of) the worst abuses of power practiced on them just because they think they are amongst the ones wielding that power. This is the Endtimes coming. And here I stop. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: FAQ and MiB's Brain (was Re: DG: Psych Support) In a message dated 4/29/00 8:41:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Qstor@aol.com writes: << << *WHy the MiB is such an asshole (hey, that was *his* title, not mine!)--perhaps with insights from various listmembers on the MiB phenomenon, positive and negative >> I just joined the list the other day and his comments I felt bordered on rude.... >> "It wasn't personal, it was just business." Hyman Roth, Godfather II It's a short sharp shock, innit? The MiB appears to follow the adage about training a Missouri mule; first you smack it between the eyes with a 2x4. That's to get it's attention. Not everyone *requires* that sort of warmup, but it does tend to eliminate the need for repetition for those that do. It evens out. I do want to point out something that happened quickly and quietly early in the first year, which wouldn't be in the FAQ. Once, caught up in the joy of verbiage and channeling The Rock, he slipped and tossed in an insulting personal comment. Don't get me wrong here, it wasn't a real personal comment and it wasn't a real insult, and the person on the receiving end knew it. He said so, and added that he didn't want that particular line of humor to be jammed on in future. The MiB apologized, but in character, so it didn't really look like one. I figured what the hell, you can't expect Big Bird to take his head off and get serious. Ya gotta read between the lines. The bottom line is that he never did it again. Old hands know that he's really the Man in Black Fuzzy Sweater and Land's End Slacks with Bass Loafers. The shades? Clip on. He just sounds mean. Really, he just has a few intimacy issues because he feels too much. He has been forced to sublimate his deep and abiding love for mankind into world conquest and gerbil husbandry. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology In a message dated 4/29/00 2:27:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, alex@bofh.torun.pl writes: << I know a lot of physicists, biochemists working nights as DTP operators and days as scientists - to survive and work with things they like. So, if New World Industries wants to hire a few good and devoted biochemists in Poland, just let me know. >> Alex brought up a good point, and one I know about but keep forgetting. One point that I encountered again and again and again is people with degrees in one thing and working in another. The sampling I saw was of course determined by the contracts on my plate. When I was supporting R&D folk in aerospace, I seldom met a programmer who had any degrees in the field they were working in. History, Mathematics, Economics, Petrology, Literature, Astronomy, Poli Sci, the list went on and on, but not in anything directly related to computing. Of course, this was the mid-80s, and the demographics of graduates were different 'back then'. Clifford Stoll, the author of 'The Cuckoo's Egg' was an astronomer who was working with computers while waiting for an astronomy gig. I was sort of in the same situation. I was double majoring in History and Education (I actually wanted to be a teacher once) on a full-ride Theater scholarship on the fateful day I encountered that Apple II in the library. Click. Over the course of a semester my whole outlook changed. In an alternate universe I'm probably a High School History teacher who directs the school plays and tangles with the Music Dept. over the musical every year (look goddammit, an actor can learn to sing or dance, but that doesn't mean a singer or dancer can act.) Actually, I think that guy is probably pretty happy with his life. But I packed up and moved back to California got involved with computers. The second point I hesitate to bring up because it sounds so insulting, but here it is. Remember, this is my experience in a limited environment. Ahem. The best programmers (or 'Software Engineers') were not trained as programmers. By best, I mean the people that the others turned to for answers or troubleshooting. The people with degrees in Computer Science were generally on the obvious management fast track. Looked great, gave good meeting and never touched code again throughout their career. Most of them didn't seem to *like* computers much. Meanwhile, the hairy rock-climbing ex-Geology major was coordinating the code and catching discrepancies and resolving conflicts and actually making that blasphemous chimera of a bad idea *work*. If I had a nickel for every time a high profile project-breaker of a problem came to a screeching halt and had to wait for an ex-astronomer\historian\economist to return from a much-needed vacation, I would have five times as much money than I would have if I hadn't jumped at that penny offer. Out in the nasty ol' business world, some sharp folks noticed that there was a path for advancement in management, but not for gurus. Problem, but not one any executive wants to get on them. Pay scales and corporate-designed career paths reward the gurus for dropping what they do exceptionally well and taking up management - which means never doing that thing they do so well ever ever again. No time, too many meetings and evaluations are overdue and where's the budget? And put on a tie for Chrissake. If a guru stays where they are and continues guruing, they will hit the ceiling in about 3 steps then hover forever with cost-of-living increases. And more and more vacation days every year, which pisses off management when projects get disrupted by their absence. The only way to get the reimbursement due for someone of their experience is to stop doing it. Naturally, just to provide some balance, they usually make well-liked but inefficient managers. Which means that they will probably be replaced by some sleek dressed-for-success sociopath with a degree and an agenda for their own personal future and everyone will be depressed for awhile. But that's okay, the ex-guru turned manager went off to ineptly manage some other project somewhere else. At a better salary. At yet another level of virtuality away from what they used to do so well. Go figure. I heard that some company (headed by an ex-problem solver) actually created the job titles of Magician, Wizard and Guru to provide a pay and perq structure for the good engineers\scientists\programmers\nexialists so that they could keep solving problems. Sounds like an Urban Legend. Damn, how did I get here from there? So let's Ob some DG. Character creation. In the RW, what someone is doing so well might not be what they have a degree in. Or, what they have a degree in might not be what they do well. Some people don't discover what they really like or are good at until after four years of college, or a few years on the job. Of course, the best stats come from being a monomaniacal specialist who discovered their obsession at an early age, so you have to choose whether you are designing a gamepiece or a person. One of my favorite themes: the cult of management as a force working towards the Endtimes. Go to a bookstore. Go to the management aisle(s). See the pretty books that repeat again and again that *management* (which requires no more than 5 minutes and can be explained to Dummies) is a science divorced from the product. It doesn't matter whether the product is, oh let's say a carbonated beverage, or the leading edge in personal computing. The management philosophy is the same. First, before anything else, you need a Mission Statement.... I have this vision of Dilbert at Whole Earth Enterprises. Don't laugh too fast, Scott Adams was an engineer hip-deep in ISDN before he became a cartoonist and social critic. Mark McFadden Some companies actually have policies forbidding taping up Dilbert cartoons. Specifically Dilbert. The *cartoons* are bad for morale. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Cookie code In a message dated 4/29/00 9:36:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, EdDrWho@aol.com writes: << > A Night at the Opera was a yummy chocolate shake? What is ALPHONSE up to > this time? Hidden messages in the straw wrapper? Could work...they wrap the straw with a cylindrical cookie-thing. A message *could* conceivably be concealed withing, though it'd look pretty funky. >> The Dead Media site (http://www.wps.com/dead-media/notes/index-numeric.html) had an article describing a Spartan (IIRC) low-tech encryption. Make two or more cones of identical proportions. If you wrap a band tightly around a cone and then write your message *across* the bands, it would have to be wrapped around an identical cone to be deciphered. So the king would have the master cones for each of his generals, and the leather strap carrying the message was worn as a belt by the courier. The same concept would work with a cylinder. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nocstar [shepherd@infocom.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: FAQ Urgency (was Re: DG: People...people who hate people) > I do admit to the healthy and reflexive taste for >*really ignorant* Newbie-smacking that is felt by all healthy organisms Relax, Liz, I still love your cold-blooded scaly hide. It's just that I have noticed that this list occasionally declares war on newbies. All one has to do is say "Hi, I'm new..." and the reflexive hip-shooters mow them down. While I appreciated your "jamming on a theme" post (you and the MiB are two of my favorite posters), I can't help but wonder if you would have been as tolerant if it had been posted by a "newbie". My point is anyone can label anybody's post as off-topic, irrelevant, or too much noise (no matter whose definition you are using). Many times it is, as you say, because they are "really ignorant". Ignorance is not a crime. Maintaining your ignorance after you have been shown the light is. I would suggest saving the SMACK-DOWNS (tm) for the members (old and new) who consistently revel in their ignorance. As you can attest, it's not too comfortable when that red dot falls on you. ;-> Peace, Brother, and please keep posting. I like your style. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) Cheers some more. Having volunteered again for one of those projects that start small and then cause your civilization to fall and your last city to be covered by antarctic ice and filled with frenzied shoggoths, I can now self-centeredly reply to a point in the Lizar King's latest post at leisure.... ><< I'm sorry if this will sound as conceited or foolish ('who is this Doc Dee >chap anyway?') >> > > Only the shoggoth-taming creator and curator of The Ice Cave, one-stop >shopping for wazzup on the list. Digests are the signal *and* noise, the Ice >Cave is the good stuff lovingly snipped and massaged and collated and >threaded and rendered coherent. All this for *free* you lucky people, and all >by volunteer labor. Is this irony I detect? > Doctor Dee! Davide Mana; ladies and gentlemen. Doer and the hardest working >man in geo biz today! No geo biz for me - not in the last two years, at least. Let me tell you.... Oh, by the way.... Despite the header of this post, no, I'm not gonna reveal you some squalid bit involving myself, Keanu Reeves and one of Dick Gere's fave squirrels. I still like women too much to forsake them for mustelids. Anyway, the big momentous revelatuion is as follows. .....Sorry, another intermission. Does someone remember when last summer we did a 'Suckiest Job' poll, and I sort of came on top having worked as a scarecrow? Well, I've got a new entry. [and I know squirrels are not mustelids, thank you. It just sounded better than rodents.] But on with the main story... And yes, this is going to be on topic and DG significant. Promise. So! Despite claims by well-meaning but not completely up to date individuals (hi, Mark!), I've not spent the last year in the geo-biz (whatever that can be). Due to my skills and experience in both statistical analysis (from paleo training) and switchboad operation (from Air Force service), I've been employed by a comppany here in Turin to tap phone lines as part of a quality control programme. And not only did I tap phone lines - already a very DG-like activity. Oh, no, sir! I tapped the phone lines of an 'Esotheric Chat-line Service' - basically a number deluded guys can call to get their horoscopes read, or to ask the on-line witch for a proper spell to capture the loved one. This, of course, not counting sexual perverts and phone maniacs. That's what I did - eight hours a day, five days a week, for one full year. Alterning morning, afternoon and night. So far I've kept this under my hat due to some vestigial respect for my employer's business. On the other hand, in little more than fortyeight hours now I'm gonna step right into my boss' office, tell him what I've been bottling up for the last three months and then drive away on my roaring roadster to home and getting my suitcases ready. So I said to myself - why not let the guys on the list know, just in case, should I disappear before I actually get away? All of my expertise is therefore at the list's disposal. Any questions? Most required spells? Underlying philosophy of syncretic cults? The ten most frequently asked questions to the tarot reader? Interested in a franchised esotheric stores chain? Fire away. Help me celebrate my soon-to-be regained freedom in style. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: FAQ it. Greetings again, and thanks for the responses. Looks like people is willing to do it, and already the thing has a home or four on the web and the possibility of being mailed to new subscribers. Great! So here's my take, part two.... Barring miracles, I'll probably have lots of free time starting next week (yep, I'm gonna quit my day job). So, I can, if there are no other takers, take care of the first draft of the thing. But for a change I think this has better be a communal project. Impresses the newbies, you know.... ;> [and saves me work!] Also, it has to be clear that the DGFAQ is an evolving document - no rules set in stone etcetera. This to take care of the risk of list sclerosys as mentioned by Phil. So, my prospect wish list/working plan is.... . who, what, why and where is the Delta Green Mailing List I'd keep this _very_ short - after all, if they are joining, they already have some idea on the subject. But we need a starting point, so.... . netiquette This _is_ important, so we put it right on top. I'll gladly check the Glorantha digest note and stea.... ehm, take inspiration from it (giving proper credit). Thanks Phil for the suggestion - now could you please post me a copy off-line? :-) Mark, please send along your primer when you are ready - I share your view that informed individuals act for the best, so there. . Check This First page - a set of links to essential web resources Delta-Green.com Ice Cave (soon to move there, I promise) Emerald Hammer Endtimes TCCorp/Pagan pages I'd add a short comment about _why_ these pages should be checked out, and what you are likely to find there. Here I'd also explain that any 'check' response to a post is to be taken as an invitation to get up to date befiore sharing your views, and not as a 'frag off' signal. . TD^2 (hmmmm, tidy-too, sounds cool, might sell it to George Lucas) or 'things done to death' in the past. A list of topics likely to be touched upon by a new subscriber, already dissected and therefore stored in the Cave and in the Archive includes DG conversion to GURPS DG/WOD crossovers Various adaptations and elaborations DG/X-files connection Suggestions to new keepers Sanity rules, pros and cons thereof Anything else? Lots, probably. I realize that compiling an exaustive listing could be long, but please let me know what I forgot. . Dealing with the Man in Black This is gonna be hell, but will allow us to close with a bang. Anything else? As I said, I'd like to keep this short and focused. And here I stop and wait for flames. Take care, gentlemen (and ladies). Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Qstor@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:56 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. In a message dated 4/30/00 8:41:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << Check This First page - a set of links to essential web resources >> Perhaps a link to Choasium's CoC page would be good too.... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 8:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: FAQ it. Although i know this post has already been superseded by a later post of Davide's which mysteriously arrived at the List before the earlier one... On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 01:16:26 +0200 Davide Mana wrote: > . TD^2 (hmmmm, tidy-too, sounds cool, might sell it to George Lucas) or >'things done to death' in the past. >A list of topics likely to be touched upon by a new subscriber, already >dissected and therefore stored in the Cave and in the Archive includes > > DG conversion to GURPS > DG/WOD crossovers > Various adaptations and elaborations > DG/X-files connection > Suggestions to new keepers > Sanity rules, pros and cons thereof > >Anything else? Guns. Explosives of many types. Theme song/soundtrack/people to star in the DG Movie. Suggested books and movies. The big monster threads (Byakhee, Deep Ones, Ghouls, Shoggoths, Vampires, etc.) Basically, anything that's got a significant presence in the Ice Cave. I think including a direct link to the relevant Ice Cave collated thread would be a good idea, as readers of the FAQ would then be able to immediately go to anything that takes their fancy. > . Dealing with the Man in Black >This is gonna be hell, but will allow us to close with a bang. He's already written something, a bit short, but I'm sure he can expand on it. Or better yet, let him write whatever he wants, and then let any listmember who wants add their own little blurb (maybe with a space limit)--anything goes. MiB: Psychopathic [censored] or Evolutionary Force? >Anything else? >As I said, I'd like to keep this short and focused. The MiB comments above and anything else not essential could be handled through links--have the essentials on a single long document, then the curious can click for the sidebars. For example, the netiquette thing could be very straightforward, with a link to a rant by McFadden that will make it clearer as to why we have these rules/suggestions, written in his usual style. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 9:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: FAQ Urgency (was Re: DG: People...people who hate people) Good Afternoon. Just returned from my Easter "Holiday". Better call it A-FORTNIGHT-OF-RUNNING-AROUND-TO-PREPARE-MY-OWN-LAW-FIRM. Nocstar schrieb: [snip] > It's just that I > have noticed that this list occasionally declares war on newbies. >All one > has to do is say "Hi, I'm new..." and the reflexive hip-shooters mow them > down. What? I do not recall anything like that. As far as I remember my 15something months on this list every newbie who introduced himself received a warm welcome, at least some kind of "hello" or something. And getting your arse kicked by you-know-who is just his shy way to say "I love You!". There is of course a rather high level of irony on this list. So, next to reading the the not yet existing FAQ - which is of course not only a very good idea but also a TDTD - there is another good thing for any newbie to do: Just "listen" to the list for a while to get used to the tone and flavour of it and to the way people deal and get along with each other. >While I appreciated your "jamming on a theme" post (you and the MiB > are two of my favorite posters) They already published posters of themselves? Cool... , I can't help but wonder if you would have > been as tolerant if it had been posted by a "newbie". My point is anyone > can label anybody's post as off-topic, irrelevant, or too much noise (no > matter whose definition you are using). Many times it is, as you say, > because they are "really ignorant". Ignorance is not a crime. Maintaining > your ignorance after you have been shown the light is. And the light is very regularly shown to you that way: "Check the Ice Cave". ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 10:43 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) Why not all those things? Davide Mana wrote: > Cheers some more. > > Having volunteered again for one of those projects that start small and > then cause your civilization to fall and your last city to be covered by > antarctic ice and filled with frenzied shoggoths, I can now self-centeredly > reply to a point in the Lizar King's latest post at leisure.... > > ><< I'm sorry if this will sound as conceited or foolish ('who is this Doc > Dee > >chap anyway?') >> > > > > Only the shoggoth-taming creator and curator of The Ice Cave, one-stop > >shopping for wazzup on the list. Digests are the signal *and* noise, the Ice > >Cave is the good stuff lovingly snipped and massaged and collated and > >threaded and rendered coherent. All this for *free* you lucky people, and > all > >by volunteer labor. > > Is this irony I detect? > > > Doctor Dee! Davide Mana; ladies and gentlemen. Doer and the hardest working > >man in geo biz today! > > No geo biz for me - not in the last two years, at least. > Let me tell you.... > > Oh, by the way.... > Despite the header of this post, no, I'm not gonna reveal you some squalid > bit involving myself, Keanu Reeves and one of Dick Gere's fave squirrels. > I still like women too much to forsake them for mustelids. > > Anyway, the big momentous revelatuion is as follows. > > .....Sorry, another intermission. > Does someone remember when last summer we did a 'Suckiest Job' poll, and I > sort of came on top having worked as a scarecrow? > Well, I've got a new entry. > > [and I know squirrels are not mustelids, thank you. > It just sounded better than rodents.] > > But on with the main story... > And yes, this is going to be on topic and DG significant. > Promise. > > So! > Despite claims by well-meaning but not completely up to date individuals > (hi, Mark!), I've not spent the last year in the geo-biz (whatever that can > be). > Due to my skills and experience in both statistical analysis (from paleo > training) and switchboad operation (from Air Force service), I've been > employed by a comppany here in Turin to tap phone lines as part of a > quality control programme. > > And not only did I tap phone lines - already a very DG-like activity. > Oh, no, sir! > I tapped the phone lines of an 'Esotheric Chat-line Service' - basically a > number deluded guys can call to get their horoscopes read, or to ask the > on-line witch for a proper spell to capture the loved one. > This, of course, not counting sexual perverts and phone maniacs. > > That's what I did - eight hours a day, five days a week, for one full year. > Alterning morning, afternoon and night. > > So far I've kept this under my hat due to some vestigial respect for my > employer's business. > On the other hand, in little more than fortyeight hours now I'm gonna step > right into my boss' office, tell him what I've been bottling up for the > last three months and then drive away on my roaring roadster to home and > getting my suitcases ready. > > So I said to myself - why not let the guys on the list know, just in case, > should I disappear before I actually get away? > All of my expertise is therefore at the list's disposal. > Any questions? > Most required spells? > Underlying philosophy of syncretic cults? > The ten most frequently asked questions to the tarot reader? > Interested in a franchised esotheric stores chain? > Fire away. > Help me celebrate my soon-to-be regained freedom in style. > > Davide Mana > Torino, Italy > doctor.dee@libero.it > The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) Hello All, sorry but I have to say this we are discussing netiquette and the FAQ and someone in this discussion doesn't cut the original post but leaves the entire thing in. a justification for the MiB if I ever saw one. > Why not all those things? > > Davide Mana wrote: > > > Cheers some more. > > No ObDG but does anyone have a Printable copy or a scanned copy of the Ruequest 2 character sheet or any links to one (with the human shape showing the HP location and encumbrance my group has lost its copy of it and we need a new one cause we don't much like the others. 11 t-shirt orders so far hope more people get interested Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk Our kind. Us people. All of us that started the game with a crooked cue, that wanted so much and got so little, that meant so good and did so bad. Jim Thompson 'The Killer Inside Me' http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/tshirt.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:18:53 +0200 Davide Mana writes: We have them in America too...they're temps in the computer industry. They run around talking about the virtues of unrestrained capitalism and quoting Rush while their employer tells them they can't hang anything on their cubicle wall or change their computer wallpaper without management approval. Phil > I've met people that was running on my same pityful wage, no less > than ten > hours a day when the contract said eight, doing anything from > accounting to > floor-washing in the same working day, and still feeding > ultra-aggressive > palaeo-capitalist crap to new colleagues and underlings - stuff in > the > class 'I'm here to pay your wage so you better jump when I say'. > They are able to tolerate (and in fact, to approve of) the worst > abuses of > power practiced on them just because they think they are amongst the > ones > wielding that power. > > This is the Endtimes coming. > > And here I stop. > > > > Davide Mana > Torino, Italy > doctor.dee@libero.it > The Ice Cave - > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 12:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology / Dilbert ----- Original Message ----- From: > The second point I hesitate to bring up because it sounds so insulting, but > here it is. Remember, this is my experience in a limited environment. Ahem. > The best programmers (or 'Software Engineers') were not trained as > programmers. The people I work for now have a definite policy of targeting people like me - would-be "real scientists" who were tempted by wages above subsistence level (guilt, guilt) or just buckled under the strain. Some CS grads are good *nowadays*, however, because the news that you can make a lot of money in the field has filtered out . . . > So let's Ob some DG. > I have this vision of Dilbert at Whole Earth Enterprises. Don't laugh too > fast, I'm not laughing at all. I read some of Scott Adams' books, expecting some daft humour, and I came away quite impressed. He actually has some very keen perceptions of human nature and psychology. I mean, I *learnt* things. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 12:36 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me On 28 April, 2000 AD, The Man in Black said: >With the surfeit of ignorant newbies we've been getting lately (I guess >the reprint finally hit the stores) you are so far down on the list that >you may never get ashes flung into your face. I might have to grow into a >Ro-Beast and get cremated by Voltron just to get a proper supply. I was somehow under the impression that by preference you were handling these cases in alphabetical order, regardless of how far throughout the Multiverse you had to travel or communicate to do so...:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "Not Again!" -- The Bowl of Petunias ("Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy") ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 12:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology In a message dated 4/30/00 2:23:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << They are able to tolerate (and in fact, to approve of) the worst abuses of power practiced on them just because they think they are amongst the ones wielding that power. >> Hostage Syndrome. I'll bet trustees get pretty uppity in prison. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steven Kaye [box_nine@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 1:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management >At 7:01 AM -0400 4/30/00, LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > > Of course, the best stats come from being a monomaniacal specialist who >discovered their obsession at an early age, so you have to choose whether you >are designing a gamepiece or a person. Pagan has something about this in one of their supplements (GOLDEN DAWN, IIRC) - the idea that you should make a well-rounded character rather than the traditional route of being very good in a few occupational skills. > One of my favorite themes: the cult of management as a force working towards >the Endtimes. Go to a bookstore. Go to the management aisle(s). See the >pretty books that repeat again and again that *management* (which requires no >more than 5 minutes and can be explained to Dummies) is a science divorced >from the product. It doesn't matter whether the product is, oh let's say a >carbonated beverage, or the leading edge in personal computing. The >management philosophy is the same. First, before anything else, you need a >Mission Statement.... More tips for WEE executives: When discussing topics, try to use action-oriented language (military metaphors are always good) - it makes you seem like you're doing something other than attending meetings/conference calls or planning for the next meeting/conference call. Toss in a few aerospace and computer industry terms (hey, maybe there is something to this MJ-12 connection...), like "bandwidth." Reading business publications can get you up on the latest buzzwords - "robust" seems to be one that's stuck around for a while. Currently, 'clicks and mortar' (the idea that websites are cool and all, but you should have branches/outlets as well, coined by a guy at Charles Schwab) is big, as are all thing involving electronic commerce. Put e in front of random nouns. Talk about B2B (business-to-business) and B2C (business-to-consumer) allot. http://members.aol.com/altjenn/speak.html and http://eleaston.com/biz/bizhome.html give some of the perennial favorites - doubtless searching on "business speak" or "corporate speak" could turn up more. Numbers and charts dictate reality. It's a Neo-Pythagorean thing. Never mind whether or not the numbers accurately describe the topic being discussed, or whether the numbers are pulled out of a hat or not. It's not whether or not you should be making widgets, it's how many widgets per hour you make, preferably in a 3-D column chart comparing widgets/hour across industries, with a column for best-in-class. If it can't be quantified, it doesn't exist (useful for squashing rivals' pet projects - just ask "What are the projected returns on this, Bob?") No concept is so complex that it can't be explained in a PowerPoint presentation. There was a great quote in a recent WALL STREET JOURNAL about how we should give PowerPoint to the Iraqis and we'd never hear from them again. One thing to note - unless you're going for broad satire, it's not like everyone goes into business hoping to become an evil overlord. Someone might go into management hoping to get a bigger budget for their department, to tell management 'what's really going on,' etc. Then they find themselves overwhelmed with administrivia, forced to make compromises left and right that somehow wind up benefiting other people more, etc. An interesting angle in Delta Green might be to have one player as a dissatisfied lower- to mid-level executive within WEE/NIW/SSFN*, and run two groups in parallel - the executive trying to get out of the company, spill the beans, and stay alive, the DG just wanting info and not caring what happens to the executive. Useful resources (note - I'm looking more for insider looks at corporate culture, rather than corporate conspiracy generally, although there is some overlap in cases like THE INSIDER or SILKWOOD. I also didn't include much cyberpunk because it tends to focus on the lower-level employees or the very top-level people. Bruce Sterling's ISLANDS IN THE NET is an exception, but it's also too optimistic for our purposes): Books - John Grisham, THE FIRM - Fredrik Pohl and Cyril M. Kornbluth, THE SPACE MERCHANTS - James Lovegrove, DAYS - Michael Lewis, LIAR'S POKER and THE MONEY CULTURE. Dated now, but fun for 80's nostalgia. - Christopher Reich, NUMBERED ACCOUNT. While much 'financial shenanigans' fiction is, frankly, atrociously-written, Reich's book is an exception. - Norman Solomon, THE TROUBLE WITH DILBERT: HOW CORPORATE CULTURE GETS THE LAST LAUGH - Tom Wolfe, BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES. Again, more 80's nostalgia. Comics/Comic Strips - DILBERT (http://www.dilbert.com) as well as a merchandising empire consisting of everything from books to calendars to mugs) - THIS MODERN WORLD, by Tom Tomorrow, much of the time (http://www.well.com/user/tomorrow/ )(I prefer the collections TUNE IN TOMORROW and THE WRATH OF SPARKY) Game Supplements Nigel D. Findley's CORPORATE SHADOW FILES Movies - HOW TO GET AHEAD IN ADVERTISING - ROBOCOP (and ROBOCOP 2, but I'd stick with the original) TV - PROFIT Steven ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.netcom.com Reason - rationality - is a concentration camp, where the sets of concepts for surviving in a chaotic universe form vast, though finite, rows of huts, separated into blocks by electric fences, which the searchlights of Attention rove over, picking out now one group of huts, now another. Thoughts, like prisoners - imprisoned for their own security and safety - scurry and march and labour in a flat two-dimensional zone, forbidden to leap fences, gunned down by laser beams of madness and unreason if they try to. Ian Watson, THE EMBEDDING From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 1:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Closet Greetings. Michael Beck may be one of those guys that do not snip 6k+ messages and replies with a single line (shame!), but he's a decent sort and he writes >Why not all those things? OK, the original offering (I quote myself, the epitome of selfcenteredness) was >>Most required spells? Undoubtedly, love potions or love-tie spells, nmostly required by women over 30 - the younger ones apparently still believe in love as a natural thing and do not feel the need to try and force Cupid's hand. Spell components and rituals depend on the imagination of the operator, and I must lament a general low level. The rituals generally involve one or more candles (red), some lock of hair of the victim and what else. Connection to lunar cycles is normally claimed, and casting 'en plein air', possibly surrounded by trees, is suggested (cue to Shuub Niggurath connection). >> Underlying philosophy of syncretic cults? This is downright scary for someone raised in a Catholic-based but open-minded family. Most users are apparently running on a highly plastic religious feel that is the countrary of what one espects. Their faith is sort of a gigantic philosophical landslide, running downhill and catching up all it encounters along the way, incorporating it and using it to fuel its run. The base is Catholic, often extremely strict-looking and pretty medieval, but to it are attached lots of spurious appendixes - Sai Baba, yoga, karma, zen, voodoo.... This is the low-end-users sector of the circus. No Wiccans, no people reading books on Nostradamus or looking for the Necronomicon in paperback edition. These are the guys that read 'Astra' (a million selling astrology mag) and get their supernatural kicks out of hairdresser-parlour talk and tabloids. Listening to a certain user ranting about her religious beliefs I realized that things like the Santeria and other sincretic cults are not that far from our Italian homes. The guys out there are ready to adopt and adapt anything that promises to work, and this is the underlying philosophy that keep the thing going: as long as it promises to work I'm willing to embrace it and I'll try to make it fit with all the rest. The DG implications are too obvious to mention. >> The ten most frequently asked questions to the tarot reader? Less than ten, actually, make up almost the total of the questions asked: . what's the size of your bra . winning numbers for lotto . does he/she love me yet/still/too . does he/she have another lover . what are my chances of betraying my spouse and get away with it . will I find a job . how's my health going >> Interested in a franchised esotheric stores chain? Then look no further. The company for which I'm still working - but the clock is ticking, and by thuesday... - was so successful in marketing its esotheric chat line, that now they are setting up the ultimate scam: open your own esotheric shop. You put down about 50 million lire (about 25K US bucks) and we will give you authentic-looking furniture, complete range of products (books, spell components, amulets, candles and incenses) and support in starting your own business. Here I stop for the time being. If someone's interested, I can expand on these or other various subjects. Believe me - it was a highly educational experience, and one that can leave your faith in humanity shattered. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management Greetings. Some more fodder for the corporate mill >When discussing topics, try to use action-oriented language (military >metaphors are always good) - it makes you seem like you're doing >something other than attending meetings/conference calls or planning >for the next meeting/conference call. One of the most incredible laughs I had in my life whas when, ina London bookstore, I found both the Hagakure and Takuan Soho's Letters to the Sword Masters (a very interesting, multilayered zen book from the 17th century) in the business management section of a bookstore. 'Learn the secret's of Japan's commercial success!', a slip screamed from poor Takuan's book-cover. I tried to imagine some clichéd yuppie trying to cope with the Hagakure-imparted information that cutting up the face of a man, pissing on it and walking over it with your sandals will make the skin peel off, and try to find an application of it to tomorrow's brainstormuing session on how to market a new armpit deodorant. >Numbers and charts dictate reality. It's a Neo-Pythagorean thing. If you do not own it, go and buy Darrell Huff - How to Lie with Statistics - 1954 Norton, Paperback ISBN 0-393-31072-8 Yep, this baby has 46 years on its back. One of the best statistics handbooks out there, it gives a lot of background on the math in a clear and informative tone, all the while focusing on errors (unwitting or otherwise) in published statistics. >No concept is so complex that it can't be explained in a PowerPoint >presentation. There was a great quote in a recent WALL STREET JOURNAL >about how we should give PowerPoint to the Iraqis and we'd never hear >from them again. As one of my friends in London U. used to say, 'If you can't convince 'em, blind 'em with rubbish'. I positively hate prefab presentations, PowerPoint style. As a scientists, I want to _explain_ things to other people. I have no interest in just convincing people they understand. But try and go explain the thing to those in charge. If it runs on PowerPoint, it has to be right. A little like God's judgement. Exec A - 'Hmmmm, all this sounds like crap' Exec B - 'Are you kidding? Did you see how smoothly it ran? It did not crash PowerPoint, so it has to be good, weird as it sounds'. >One thing to note - unless you're going for broad satire, it's not >like everyone goes into business hoping to become an evil overlord. [snip!] >Then they find themselves overwhelmed with administrivia, forced to >make compromises left and right that somehow wind up benefiting other >people more, etc. I'm working on a 'corporate ecology' thingie, based on my various experiences. Basically what you get is a function of what you reward. Just imagine what a generation of low-imagination individuals feeding on the trivia-filled and martial obsessed memoirs of a homosexual retired samurai could come up with. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cookie code >> The Dead Media site (http://www.wps.com/dead-media/notes/index-numeric.html) >had an article describing a Spartan (IIRC) low-tech encryption. Make two or >more cones of identical proportions. If you wrap a band tightly around a cone >and then write your message *across* the bands, it would have to be wrapped >around an identical cone to be deciphered. So the king would have the master >cones for each of his generals, and the leather strap carrying the message >was worn as a belt by the courier. The same concept would work with a >cylinder. The Spartans also used a variant on this with a hexagonal cross-section rod, where you wrap the message strip around the rod and read off the plaintext horizontally. My guess is that it would have been phased out reasonably quickly as being too absurdly easy to break. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:32 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cookie code Greetings. Graeme shrugs off a pair of millenia and odd, and writes >The Spartans also used a variant on this with a hexagonal cross-section >rod, where you wrap the message strip around the rod and read off the >plaintext horizontally. My guess is that it would have been phased out >reasonably quickly as being too absurdly easy to break. Now don't get me wrong, but it's the old olumbus Egg story. Once you know the trick, it's incredibly, absurdly easy to do it again. But figuring it out..... ah! Persian SIGINT : 'Sir, we just intercepted a Spartan message' Darius the Great : 'Fine, let's see.... hey, but this is just babbling. Oh, no, wait, I get it - we wrap it around an exagonal rod and read it....' Not that easy, Herr Doktor Price, sir. Not the first time. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management A LOT of good observations here. However you forgot to mention the most potent force for evil on the planet; The motivational seminar. If I hear the word "proactive" from the lips of one more mid-level manager, I may be calling the Gunfondlers for armament advice. Phil Posehn, who, sadly, is currently employed in sales and marketing On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:17:00 -0400 Steven Kaye writes: > >At 7:01 AM -0400 4/30/00, LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > > > One of my favorite themes: the cult of management as a force > working towards > >the Endtimes. Go to a bookstore. Go to the management aisle(s). See > the > >pretty books that repeat again and again that *management* (which > requires no > >more than 5 minutes and can be explained to Dummies) is a science > divorced > >from the product. It doesn't matter whether the product is, oh > let's say a > >carbonated beverage, or the leading edge in personal computing. The > >management philosophy is the same. First, before anything else, you > need a > >Mission Statement.... > > > More tips for WEE executives: > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 2:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ...) Michael "SeaDog" Layne wrote > The mental visions of Deep Ones swimming out to the "Thresher" while she >was running submerged off Cape Cod, and somehow breaching the hull or >otherwise crippling the boat, are probably inaccurate. Sea Shoggoth? That should do the trick. > A torch or explosive capable of breaching the hull would have produced >unmistakable sound signatures that would have been detectable by USS >"Skylark", the submarine rescue vessel that was standing by on the surface >at the time. [Snip] > The generally accepted theory of the probable cause of "Thresher"'s >loss involves a silver-brazed joint in a water circulation pipe in the >boat's engineering spaces. Yes, but both of these points are what the official version reads. For our purposes on a conspiracy theory fuelled list, the "reality" may be somewhat different. Putting out the version of events which has the DOs smashing thier way into a crippled sub and taking out the crew hand to hand (for example) wouldn't be such a good thing for morale in the fleet... so blame some dodgy soldering and bury the tapes of the Thresher's final transmissions to the surface. Meanwhile, put together a few hasty faked tapes and release _them_ to the board of enquiry instead. > This would be the man whom the DG investigators would need to find and >neutralize, before he killed again. (And Portsmouth NSY was building other >subs of the same class as "Thresher"!) Sabotage is a possibility, but that would mean that the DOs knew about the Thresher prior to the event, and were sufficiently capable of placing a technically competent saboteur sympathetic to their cause (whatever that might be) in the naval yards. Unless the DOs have a more sophisticated intelligence gathering network (with access to technical information and/or naval personnel/civilian contractors) than we have previously considered, this seems unlikely. In addition, direct action is risky for the DOs as it would be an escalation which would draw significant military attention to them if discovered. The scenario I would venture runs more like this: USS Thresher on sea trials dives in an area somehow important to the DOs, which hastily conclude they are under attack and retaliate, destroying the Thresher. > As I see it, RIPTIDE had to: > a. Determine DO complicity in the loss with all hands of the submarine. With access to the "real" tapes and sonar data, this is a foregone conclusion. > b. Locate and neutralize the DO agent(s) to forestall the loss of more >vessels. Assuming that DG has made conclusion a, and the DOs mounted a direct assault on the vessel, this becomes a moot point. However, ONI will mount a major investigation to rule out sabotage (and in doing so provide a useful cover if it becomes necessary). The rather less plesant alternative is that Thresher was offered as bait for the DOs, forcing their hand to allow sonar tracking of the attacking party back to the city to both justify and enable a decisive strike. This is unbelivably callous though, and considering that Thresher was a brand new sub with an excess of personnel aboard, somewhat unlikely in my mind. Just some thoughts Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 3:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Insurances & Assurances for your PCs Good Evening. Just thinking about something: DG-Agents do not only tend to have jobs with a certain danger [ except perhaps like the IRS fellows who just linger about their desk ], they even make this job more dangerous by facing nameless evil on a regular basis, resulting in injuries AND OF COURSE the need for psychological help or many weeks in some of the nation's finest asylums. Those things are pretty expensive. So: Who does pay for this? Does Delta Green have a special fund for insane agents? Do the agents themselves have to get additional insurances [assurances?] for the additional risks? Or are these things paid by the original agency of the agent? Just wondering. ECKHARD. BTW: This idea came up in the last two weeks when I was checking several offers for professional insurrances. You need one of those that will pay the damages that might occur from my negligence in professional matters after I open up my law firm. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steven Kaye [box_nine@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 3:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management At 9:15 PM +0200 4/30/00, Davide Mana wrote: > >One of the most incredible laughs I had in my life whas when, ina London >bookstore, I found both the Hagakure and Takuan Soho's Letters to the Sword >Masters (a very interesting, multilayered zen book from the 17th century) >in the business management section of a bookstore. >'Learn the secret's of Japan's commercial success!', a slip screamed from >poor Takuan's book-cover. It's not just limited to repackaging Japanese philosophy, though. Remember THE BUSINESS SECRETS OF ATTILA THE HUN? It's also a good idea to have ELECTRONIC, INFORMATION, or NETWORK (or variations of the above) in your book's title, if you want a bestseller. What always amuses me are all the books on become more creative, or innovative, or proactive (Phil - put the gun down. Slowly. That's it.) > >I'm working on a 'corporate ecology' thingie, based on my various experiences. >Basically what you get is a function of what you reward. >Just imagine what a generation of low-imagination individuals feeding on >the trivia-filled and martial obsessed memoirs of a homosexual retired >samurai could come up with. Ah, but it's even more complicated than that. Besides people who consider it their lifelong ambition to be Upper Management, there are also: - Line organization. Can often be found complaining about how Upper Management doesn't have a clue. Nowadays, generally leaving to join the latest dot-com. This leads to humorous attempts at retention by letting people wear jeans and installing foosball tables. Hey, it works for all those Silicon Valley companies! - Support staff (I've also seen them called "infrastructure," and, at one particularly fun former employer, "Blood-Sucking Overhead"). Research function, quality, legal, etc. Easy targets when budget-cutting time rolls around, limited career possibilities. Might be likely candidates for 'friendly' status in DG ops. - Administrative assistants (aka secretaries, executive assistants). Technically, part of support staff. In practice, the people who actually have some clue what's going on in the company. Thus, they cannot be allowed to leave. Ever. An interesting scenario might have agents discover that the EAs are behind whatever sinister plot the agents are investigating, and the executives ostensibly responsible don't have a clue. They heard about the project once it was already in motion, didn't want to lose face by seeming ignorant, and the whole thing snowballed. - Outside experts. There have been any number of books written on management consulting - DANGEROUS COMPANY, for example. You've likely heard the worst - firms paid bonuses for the number of employees downsized, complaints that consultants are learning the client's industry on the client's time (and dollar), always a new hot methodology, etc. I could see either Delta Green or MJ-12 using a consulting firm as a front. DISCLAIMER - I work for a consulting firm. Trust me in all things. Steven ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.netcom.com Reason - rationality - is a concentration camp, where the sets of concepts for surviving in a chaotic universe form vast, though finite, rows of huts, separated into blocks by electric fences, which the searchlights of Attention rove over, picking out now one group of huts, now another. Thoughts, like prisoners - imprisoned for their own security and safety - scurry and march and labour in a flat two-dimensional zone, forbidden to leap fences, gunned down by laser beams of madness and unreason if they try to. Ian Watson, THE EMBEDDING From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 3:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Insurances & Assurances for your PCs Well, they can't use the VA hospital or Bathesda. Too much chance of too many awkward questions in official quarters. I would suggest that they have co opted a number of doctors and hospital administraters with a level 1 cover story for the major stuff. An alternative would be their own private HMO. As for insurance, perhaps Lloyds... Phil On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:22:04 +0200 EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) writes: they even make this job more dangerous by facing nameless > evil on a > regular basis, resulting in injuries AND OF COURSE the need for > psychological > help or many weeks in some of the nation's finest asylums. > > Those things are pretty expensive. > > So: Who does pay for this? > > Does Delta Green have a special fund for insane agents? Do the > agents themselves > have to get additional insurances [assurances?] for the additional > risks? Or are > these things paid by the original agency of the agent? > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:06 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 16:46:15 -0400 Steven Kaye writes: > At 9:15 PM +0200 4/30/00, Davide Mana wrote: > > > >One of the most incredible laughs I had in my life whas when, ina > London > >bookstore, I found both the Hagakure and Takuan Soho's Letters to > the Sword > >Masters (a very interesting, multilayered zen book from the 17th > century) > >in the business management section of a bookstore. > >'Learn the secret's of Japan's commercial success!', a slip > screamed from > >poor Takuan's book-cover. Why not? after all, it worked so well with "The Book of Five Rings". Hmmm...maybe I can sell off all my old L5R cards as marketing seminar visual aids! What > always amuses me are all the books on become more creative, or > innovative, or proactive (Phil - put the gun down. Slowly. That's > it.) Arrrggghhh!!! > > > >I'm working on a 'corporate ecology' thingie, based on my various > experiences. > >Basically what you get is a function of what you reward. > >Just imagine what a generation of low-imagination individuals > feeding on > >the trivia-filled and martial obsessed memoirs of a homosexual > retired > >samurai could come up with. It couldn't me much worse than Zig Zeigler and his ilk. This leads to humorous attempts at retention by > letting people wear jeans and installing foosball tables. Hey, it > works for all those Silicon Valley companies! All motivational strategies boil down to teaching executives how to pretend to care about their employees as an alternative to hiring people who actually do. Phil Posehn "Dice,n. Small polka dotted cubes which, like a lawyer, can lie upon any side but, generally, the wrong one." (Apologies to Meister Eckhard) "The Devil's Dictionary" Ambrose Bierce ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: RE: Inside the Deep Ones On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Incidentally, I have heard from submariners that the USN is in the habit of > dumping spent fuel rods and such into the Marianas Trench. Could be a sea > story, but it has that certain budget&complications-conscious "who's gonna > know?" bouquet. What do they do, launch it out of the torpedo tubes? Maybe they hand it to some dumb SEAL at crushing depths? Then again, deep submergence (your abyss/Raising the Titanic stuff) does tend to be all hush hush... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: THE GUN EATERS] On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/28/00 11:40:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > theherald@hotmail.com writes: > MiB! What's it like in August? Was 'Gladiator' any good? I know you saw it, > what with your taste for gladiator movies and all. That's next on my list actually. Right after 'Men at Work presents: Wreckin' Crew, a Jack Hammer story." But I've never been to a turkish bath. > How was Project Rainbow? I have to fetch this via someone else's credit card. Why won't anyone give me credit? I'm good for it. Really! You know, if the IMF and the World Bank would buy the completely reasonable fact that I'm a sovereign nation of one, I could take out development loans and wouldn't have this sort of problem. My mobile nation status also allows me to sail into international waters and do as I please with my mineral resources. I don't care about flushing taxpayer dollars into the debt toilet of transnational banks. I care about flushing taxpayer dollars into the debt toilet that is me. I am all that is important. It's all about me. ME ME ME! The Man in Black is : compounding interest. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: PARADISE ISLAND On 29 Apr 2000, Dave Farnell wrote: > I checked it out briefly--the thing that impressed me most was that it > was originally named Hog Island, which is funny for the first few > seconds, and then, as you start thinking of CoC connections, gets rather > creepy. Especially if you've ever read Clive Barker's "The Hog." Or > _Lord of the Flies_. Not if you like Kalua Pork. Mmm... Imu. But I digress. What caught my eye was Dr. Axel Wenner-Gren and his Shangri-La resort (purchased in 1939) and Huntington Hartford who bought him out in 1940 and completed the good Dr.'s Versailles Gardens. The NWI/Karotechia part comes with the current owners - the South African Sun International Resort development firm. SUN = AZATHOTH! And South Africans are always evil, if those guys in Lethal Weapon 2 and our .ZA members on this list are any evidence. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]