From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Insurances & Assurances for your PCs Greetings. Eckhard is looking at the big bad bureaucratic machine behind the horror, and writes >Those things are pretty expensive. > >So: Who does pay for this? >Does Delta Green have a special fund for insane agents? Do the agents themselves >have to get additional insurances [assurances?] for the additional risks? Or are >these things paid by the original agency of the agent? Well, I guess most govt. agencies have a life insurance formula for their employees. As long as you keep a low profile, you can probably get money from that. Specialist treatment can be tricky, but in most cases, considering how few agents are actually employed by Delta Green, I guess 'a gift from Uncle Alphonse paying covering the bill' can be easily aranged, and as long as it's strictly cas and up front, it's pretty hard to trace. Friendlies have to fend off for themselves. All this, however, starts a new train of thoughts.... Our University insures students doing field work - a policy adopted after the body count increased (no, seriously) in the '90s. So, today, any student working on a field project is covered in case of accident. Due to the litle money the university is willing to risk for its students, the insurance company limits its coverage to the area of field investigated and the period during which the field work is done. This incidentally means that the insurance company has a log of all the research work being conducted at the moment, by whom, under whose suprvision (the teacher assigning the research has to sign a paper) how long will it take and where it's being done. They also know how long the guys have been working on the project, and have their full details, including a medical report. Apparently, this is a standard insurance policy for many companies, nowadays and hereabouts - let's call it a 'localized insurance' covering only a given project for a given time. It saves money for the company and it reduces risks for the insurance guys. It also means all relevant data about the project are filed by the insurance. Which might mean a secondary, possibly more vulnerable database should you need info on delicate research being done. Slipping a 'gift' to an insurance company secretary is easier (and safer) than phisically hacking a corporate db. All of which could be filed under 'Tradecraft', together with the important notion that hanging about in insurance offices and presenting the older secretary with a box of chocolates once in a while is a cheap but high payback strategy. Insurance companies know about people, and keep files forever. Oh, a curious factoid: actually, the 'hang around and bring chocolates to the girls in the booth' is _the_ basic strategy to get tickets on short notice from opera houses. Do it. Never risk missing a night at the opera. ;> Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) In a message dated 4/30/00 7:41:12 AM Central Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << So I said to myself - why not let the guys on the list know, just in case, should I disappear before I actually get away? All of my expertise is therefore at the list's disposal. Any questions? Most required spells? Underlying philosophy of syncretic cults? The ten most frequently asked questions to the tarot reader? Interested in a franchised esotheric stores chain? Fire away. Help me celebrate my soon-to-be regained freedom in style. >> I'll bite. How many are not romance or sex-oreiented? I think that is probably the preonderance of calls - but what about those that are dealing with "business" - not sex or love? As to your ssertion that you detected irony in a posting on the DG list - all I can say is that you will be accusing us of sarcasm next? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 4:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: THE AUTUMN WIND On 29 Apr 2000, Dave Farnell wrote: > On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:01:44 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black wrote: > >Here's the chapter I ripped out of DREAMLANDERS and expanded into it's own > >little bit. It could use some polishing, but I want to get straight to > >finishing the original story and STRANGE RAIN. > > So is this eventually supposed to end up as a novel, novella, collection > of short pieces, or what? And will it be primarily fiction but with some > adventure info, as in Gun Eaters? Or only fiction? I don't plan that far ahead. DREAMLANDERS (without THE AUTUMN WIND) is up to maybe 10,000 words, and will likely end up at 15,000-20,000 words. I suppose that counts as a novella. If I really had to I bet I could get a Mountains of Madness sized collection together (Novella + Stories) all revolving around the Dreamlanders, in about three to six months. Writing large projects under a deadline is not something I'm experienced with, so I'm just making wild guesses. I may just keep it floating around on the web for all I know. As for gaming stats; that would be telling, now wouldn't it... STRANGE RAIN is going to be the "sequel" to GLASS FOREST, and will report on the strange happenings around the ESA's equatorial launch facility at Kourou, French Guyana. This will take the same form as our other reports from the field and has been slowly accumulating in the most sluggish manner possible for freakin' months now. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Davide Mana wrote: > Finally, tehre's the enormous amount f stuff that falls from the watermass > - bodily wastes of the whole biomass, dead fishes and other critters, > algae, dust, all the refuses that ships are liable to drop while on course > and 'cosmic dust' - that believe it or not makes for a significant > percentage of the total. Well, then I say to you: Wouldn't it be easier to dodge that to build? Or you could place and expand your city in such a way that currents shield you from most of this detritus? > So - I'd buils walls and roofs anyway - at least for part of the structure. No man, huge domes. Underwater cities should have huge domes, and like - in areas without too much geological activity - slender spires that would crumble on the surface, but are held up by natural water pressure or some widget or twonky force. The Man in Black is : a proud member of TWONKY FORCE~! (poses with twonky) Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 Qstor@aol.com wrote: > There's some drawings of structurs in CoC Return to Innsmouth That does not mean: A: The artist is the final arbiter of all things Deep. Illustration tends to be quite inaccurate, especially in gaming product where artists are often commissioned for a few unrelated pieces. B: That the Deep One cities need housing structures. Storage, yes. Temples, sure - a good place to store religious trinkets. Gold refineries and geothermal mysteries, I don't see why not. But I just can't bring myself to see Deep Ones cloistering themselves in buildings all day. Especially the small ones, who should be swimming in schools instead of floundering about in claustrophobic and awkward artificial Blue Holes in some truant parody of humanity. The Man in Black is : tardy for class. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Psych Support (was Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide) On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Michael Layne wrote: > The intense, extremely localized magnetic and gravitic fields necessary > to contain it could mask the antimatter's presence from the puny scanning > instruments of 2000 AD Earth! Of course, this antimatter could threaten the > safety of the planet if the MiB gets a headache...:) Just reading this post gave me a headache...:) The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew John Farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ...) Graeme Price wrote :- The rather less plesant alternative is that Thresher was offered as bait > for the DOs, forcing their hand to allow sonar tracking of the attacking > party back to the city to both justify and enable a decisive strike. This > is unbelivably callous though, and considering that Thresher was a brand > new sub with an excess of personnel aboard, somewhat unlikely in my mind. maybe the new confident nuclear navy realy thought that thier brand new super sub could take on all comers and win . especially if it was carrying some new weapons / electronics gadgets . which would explain the excess crew size . maybe a stick if SEALs was thrown aboard as wel just in case . then when it all did go wrong - exactly how the DOs deep sixed the sub is a moot point . the USN is no way going to admit that its new sub as lost on first action while loaded for bear and looking for trouble . so the mysterious sinking theory caused by engineering failure is trolled out , backed up by the first line conspiracy defense of a few roumours linking it to the soviet sub disaperance and *tit for tat * retaliation .and bingo case closed . leaving the navy clear to get on and go postal on the DO city . sending a clear message to the DO - "nukes work , maybe we cant do cthulu , but mess us again and he`ll be all alone down there " this the DO are put back in thier place . From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew John Farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: who? why ? does anyone want to own up to , or finger a suspect for this bizzarrre bit of wet work http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/04/30/mexico.slain.ap/index.html 35 stab wounds and suspected torture , followed by such a crass dope plant , IMO rules out ANDREA cos its far too sloppy probally best to blame it on the bronsons - only question is why - anyone lost a friendly in mexico - bad news chaps they`re dead yours - andy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew John Farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Psych Support (was Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide) the man in black wrote :- this antimatter could threaten the > > safety of the planet if the MiB gets a headache...:) > > Just reading this post gave me a headache...:) take two asprin , call me in the morning . yours - andy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > (A thought - Crawler War: the genesis of the Post-Human beetles?) Meaning that the Yithians would likely be instrumental in the creation of their own future destination. The immediate source for BugTech would seem to be Majestic, but the Mi-Go would probably not want the Cones messing with their project. Likewise, the Yithians should wisely shy away from any Mi-Go contact. Then perhaps NWI, which would be delighted to innovate offensive entymology. Of course, the Yithians might not approve of NWI's standards and practices. This leaves independant means. Yithian agents targeting biotechnology professionals for mind switching and eventually gathering venture capital to form a biotech startup. The Yithians might even switch with children and infants in order to attend medical school and gain the proper credentials for biotech research, giving rise to a disproportonate number of medical prodigies like Doogie Howser, M.D. running about. OH THE HUMANITY~! IMAGINE THE HORROR~! DOOGIE DOOGIE, EVERYWHERE~! An outside view of Yithgenix Corp. would be odd indeed. Many of the personnel would be humans aiding and abetting the Yithians for whatever purpose. Perhaps provisional membership in the Great Race could motivate such behavior, a subject worthy of it's own thread. Others would be Yithians without human medical credentials. An observer could thus witness a janitor conducting and assisting experiments in a lab, while a primitive human doctor does menial tasks like sweeping the floor, washing bottles, bang rock - make fire, hunt deer, Oola! Grunt-Grunt! Finally, does Graeme speak Pnakotic? Inquiring minds want to know! How do you pronounce "Graeme" anyway? Sounds awfully Pnakotic to me... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) Greetings. >I'll bite. How many are not romance or sex-oreiented? I think that is >probably the preponderance of calls - but what about those that are dealing >with "business" - not sex or love? Business questions? I'd say they make up about 10% tops of the whole cartomantic load. Romance and sex are a fair 60%, with health coming next. This, again, without considering the off-topic calls from sex maniacs and phone freaks - that outnumber on-topic calls three to one. As for biz calls, most deal with new jobs - will I find it? How it's gonna be? Will I make more money? Most are pretty straightforward - guys looking for new positions that think they can get a better chance from the tarot than from the newspapwer classifieds. A call that was a hoot was from a brain-dead male part-time strip-dancer, asking if he'd be able to find a highest-paying full-time strip job. Some requests I recorded, on the other hand, are pretty baffling. Like.... Guy, fiftysomething. Presents himself as a university teacher in Rome's 'La Sapienza' University. He calls for a business problem. The problem is - tomorrow morning he will hand a certain amount of cash to 'a friend'. The friend will reciprocate by finding an 'executive position' in the Rome University College for the teacher's daughter. The guy is calling to know if this highly illegal corruption deal will go for the best. The tarot reader finally gives him the go ahead. And then there was the guy from Naples (of course) that basically called the girls not to get his future read but to advertise his quick and cheap electrician/plumber one-man-company. When he discovered that the girls were living 1500 kms from Naples he was disappointed but took it pretty well. Another interesting bit that might have a Dg twist - lots of young girls calling for high-school romance questions or similar stuff often called again to know just how to join the company, or how to become tarot readers or witches or so. The impression was they were more interested in the 'bad girl'/'witch' imagery and aura than in the economics side, anyway. Which is silly, considering that a truly ruthless on-line consultant can easily make 2.5K US bucks, net, per month. >As to your assertion that you detected irony in a posting on the DG list - all >I can say is that you will be accusing us of sarcasm next? Don't even mention it. Who'd ever think of being sarcastic on this list? Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:06 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Crawler war and Ratwar On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Andrew John Farrow wrote: > the visual senses of insects are very well developed and imo represent the > best way of vectoring them onto the intended target . this after all is > theier natural behaviour - as most flowering plants use the visual stiluli > of the flower as primary attraction for pollenting insects . Are you suggesting that we decorate the enemy troops in some sort of pleasing floral motif? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:13 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: FAQ Urgency (was Re: DG: People...people who hate people) On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Davide Mana wrote: > No more lone justice. WHAT~!? End our cowboy days? And then what, implement some weak-@$$ cell structure! Close the open frontier! The Man in Black is : riding off into the sunset. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:24 PM To: Davide Mana Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. Here's some of what was written in the days of yore, Mmm... Yore Some Questions to add: Q: What is the ICE CAVE? Q: What is Delta-Green.com? Q: Who's gonna update that question about the archives? Q: How should the questions be organized? Q: I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME~!? ******* The Delta Green FAQ by the Delta Green Mailing List created 7 March 2000 last updated 25 April 2000 ******* INTRO: Hi, I'm the Man in Black and I have zero tolerance for ignorant fools who waste the time of listmembers by trowling out a load of tripe that has been trod to death many times over in the past. So hopefully this FAQ will minimize any fits of personal horror experienced by DGML subscribers. Here are some important instuctions on how to avoid such distasteful affairs: 1. Before you ask a single solitary question about anything on the Delta Green Mailing List, you must first use a variety of search engines to see what the major internet sites on the subject have to say. 2. Read the archives whenever you get the chance. On a 5 or less on 1d6, your question has been already been answered in there. 3. LURK YOU FREAK~! If you do not lurk for an appreciable period, you will be swimming with the sharks, I guarantee it. How did you get a computer and learn email operations without enough brains to bother with netiquette. This applies to discussion lists and usenet as well, BTW. 4. Trim your replies. This cannot be stressed enough. What I mean by this is that when you make a two line reply (with twenty line signature) to a brilliant 77 line insight into Mi-Go spirituality; DO NOT INCUDE THE ENTIRE ORIGINAL POST~! This just makes you look like a monkey who can't cut and paste. TABLE OF CONTENTS Q: How do I start a Delta Green Campaign? Q: What is the precise relationship between Agents and Friendlies? Q: How do I run an online game via email (PBEM) or chatroom? Q: Who or what is ANDREA? Q: Who or what is PARIAH? ******* THE QUESTIONS: Q: How do I start a Delta Green Campaign? A: This is usually the first thing anyone asks so I have placed it before all other questions. The Man in Black thinks it's a good idea to discuss the character creation with an eye toward cell structure before play. With cells of three, any remaning characters should become friendlies. Of course, one could make everyone an agent and either fill in the empty slo agents to fill these cells might make a good scenario. Q: What is the precise relationship between Agents and Friendlies? A: The largest difference is that Agents are fully recognizant that DG is completely illegal. Friendlies are led to believe that they are assisting a legitimate government enterprise. Also, Delta Green tries to recruit Agents with military or law-enforcement credentials. A nasty bit of tradecraft DG uses is the list of all available Friendlies on the Delta Green Secure Server. Ostensibly, this is to allow Agents the ability to pull "consultants" from this list, but the tru7th is that if the server encryption is broken, this Judas List will hopefully throw the track off the Cell structure long enough for some sort of reorganization to take place. Q: How do I run an online game via email (PBEM) or chatroom? A: The PBEM website (www.pbem.com) answers this question in a much more indepth manner than this FAQ ever should. Online rpg's is too broad a subject for any detailed discussion here, but here are a few tips: PBEM and chat games are separate issues, and the challenges and rewards of roleplaying in either medium is beyond the scope of this FAQ. The mechanics are simple; the execution is hard. COC:DG is a mood-based game (horror), and conveying that feeling across PBEM or PBChat is difficult to do without: 1) A Keeper who is willing to work very hard at building suspense and mood through the use of good writing and timing 2) players willing to contribute to said mood. It requires concentration, dedication and patience in order to make the gaming playing rewarding. Can it be done with any good result? That's up to the keeper and the players to decide if the experience is rewarding. Here are some suggestions if you attempt the challenge of chatroom DG: You'll find most of these apply to real life games as well. 1) Get dedicated players. Nothing screws up a storyline than players or Keepers that don't show. 2) Get mature players. 3) The players and the Keeper must have a command of the language being used, and fast typing is recommended. 4) In a PbEM, keep turns timely (at least once a week), in chat, reduce lag as much as possible. Q: The fiction seems to contradict the rulebook / sucks / MUST BE OFFICIAL~! Which is true? A: The fiction and RPG material is seperate but equal. This has been handed down from Pagan itself. Q: How exactly do the Delta Green Secure Servers work? A: Very well, thank you very much :) Q: Why is the Man in Black so mean to me? A: Cause you're: 1. a worthless ignorant newbie 2. a retarded incompetant, or 3. because you're there. ******* Q: Who or what is ANDREA? A: That information is not available at your security clearance. But speculation has ranged from a Majestic-12 Steering Committee member, Major General Reginald Fairfield Ret. (presumed dead), and some sort of internal housecleaning service and fixer for "rogue" agents. Q: Who or what is PARIAH? A: fnord. This information can be found in the Delta Green Novel : Rules of Engagement. Q: Hey! Where's the digest version of this list? A: http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/index.html Q: Hey! Where's a nice threaded searchable archive for the list since October 1999? A: If you have any recommendations for software to facilitate this, contact Alphonse (alphonse@delta-green.com). Q: Hi. I am a new Keeper from [country]. Give me all your scenario ideas. A: Nice to meet you. It would help to know something about what kind of scenarios your players like, what your ideas are for the campaign, etc. Nevertheless, there are some good sample scenarios at http://www.delta-green.com. You also might want to check out other sites on the Delta Green Web Ring, as well as Tales of Terror http://www.flar.demon.co.uk/terror/tales.htm And of course, you could always buy supplements from Chaosium (http://www.chaosium.com) or Pagan Publishing (http://www.tccorp.com) Q: When's the [supplement from Pagan Publishing] due out? A: You're better off asking Pagan Publishing directly. Try Scott Glancy (SGlancy12@aol.com), Dennis Detwiller (PaganArt@aol.com), or John Tynes (rev@tccorp.com). Currently: Q: What Websites are good for DG? A: www.delta-green.com has many links to DG related sites, especially the DG Webring. Q: I found a rilly KEWL WEBSITE~! Should I let everyone know? A: Sure, as long as you include the URL... Q: I can almost read this rilly KEWL BOOK~! Should I let everyone know? A: Sure, as long as you include the International Standard Book Number, or ISBN. This allows our international friends to acquire your coloring book, or whatever. More info on the ISBN conspiracy can be found here: http://www.isbn.org ******* The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) On Mon, 1 May 2000, Davide Mana wrote: > A call that was a hoot was from a brain-dead male part-time strip-dancer, > asking if he'd be able to find a highest-paying full-time strip job. Obviously an Adept of the Fate, calling in to get his new orders, which probably went a little sometin' like this: "Shake your groove thing, shake your groove thing, yeah, yeah Show em how we do it now" > Who'd ever think of being sarcastic on this list? I concur. In fact, I will not tolerate any further sarcasm on this list. Hmmph - YOU! There in the back! I saw you crafting that irony back there! Don't even *think* about it, you puny little peabrain! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: FAQ and MiB's Brain (was Re: DG: Psych Support) On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 Qstor@aol.com wrote: > I just joined the list the other day and his comments I felt bordered on > rude.... I have failed... (hangs head in shame). Only bordered. It is time to intensify! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Stephen Joseph Ellis [sje1@st-andrews.ac.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:18 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Signal to Noise ratio was ( FAQ and MiB's Brain (was Re: DG: Psych Support) I hate to mention it guys, but given the recent off-topic posts and so forth, I dont think we warrant the high 'signal to noise' award any more. Steve. "In the long run we are all dead" -John Maynard Keynes From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > One of my favorite themes: the cult of management as a force working towards > the Endtimes. So what you're saying is that people rise to their level of incompetance. The Man in Black is : going all the way to the top baby! Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cookie code On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > The Dead Media site (http://www.wps.com/dead-media/notes/index-numeric.html) > had an article describing a Spartan (IIRC) low-tech encryption. Make two or > more cones of identical proportions. I thought it was sticks of equal width, like scepters. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cookie code On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Graeme Price wrote: > My guess is that it would have been phased out reasonably quickly as > being too absurdly easy to break. Not if you used code phrases and kept changing the size of the rods and width of the strips. Especially code phrases :) A Roman signalling technique involved a time code (fire, horn etc) from one fort to another, and messages set into waterclocks. The codes were changed frequently of course. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Ugandan Cult Mass Suicide/Murders - Sounds like campaign material to me On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Michael Layne wrote: > I was somehow under the impression that by preference you were handling > these cases in alphabetical order, regardless of how far throughout the > Multiverse you had to travel or communicate to do so...:) How would you know, you weak kneed, impotent, unwashable vermin? I find you to be a veritable cornucopia of moral ineptitude and witless flabby excrement. I just thought you'd like to know that before you went. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Steven Kaye wrote: > - HOW TO GET AHEAD IN ADVERTISING > - ROBOCOP (and ROBOCOP 2, but I'd stick with the original) You forgot the totally AWEsome Tim Robbins flick THE HUDSUCKER PROXY. "You know, for kids." The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:51 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ...) On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Graeme Price wrote: > The rather less plesant alternative is that Thresher was offered as bait > for the DOs, forcing their hand to allow sonar tracking of the attacking > party back to the city to both justify and enable a decisive strike. This > is unbelivably callous though, and considering that Thresher was a brand > new sub with an excess of personnel aboard, somewhat unlikely in my mind. We could even stick Majestic into the mix and say that some of those observers monkeywrenched the works. MKULTRA Strikes Again! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 8:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Signal to Noise ratio was ( FAQ and MiB's Brain (was Re: DG: On Mon, 1 May 2000, Stephen Joseph Ellis wrote: > I hate to mention it guys, but given the recent off-topic posts > and so forth, I dont think we warrant the high 'signal to noise' award any > more. We dropped off that radar a long long time ago, my friend. ******* ObDG: MORE SHOTGUN SCENARIOS Shotgun...? GOT ONE~! The following are ultra-condensed descriptions of possible adventures, plot-hooks, themes, or sub plots. They can be combined and synthesized; folded, mutilated or spindled. Hopefully, they will serve as an Idea Mine of Inspiration for imagination impoverished Keepers. I call them shotgun scenarios because I'm trying to to blast 'em against the wall and see what sticks. If it sticks, then please let the DGML know what happened. \\\\\\\ Routers : The cell must replace or install part of the Secure Server system. Smack Down : Someone starts killing the friendlies on the Secure Server list. To Catch a Thief : Who is raiding our Green Boxes? Follow their trail. Is it a trap? A rogue agent? The Candidate : The cell is instructed to assassinate an important political figure. Weak kneed Keepers may wish to reduce this to a mere "background check" as part of a Red Herring Test. This scenario allows the Keeper to present an inside view of politics to apathetic players. Fragging : The cell is instructed to kill a high ranking military officer. Weak kneed Keepers may wish to reduce this to a mere "background check" as part of a Red Herring Test. This scenario allows the Keeper to present an inside view of military life to civilian players. The Profiler : A project to psychologically profile mythos cultists and their foes goes awry. Three Agents and Adina : The entire session is comprised of the interrogation of a single suspect. (Best for live action role playing) And Then There Was One : Clones in the populace are driven by some instinct to kill each other, perhaps so that the survivor can claim the entire soul, like in some spurious rerun of Highlander. Watching the Watchers : The cell is assigned to spy on another cell or stakeout a possible recruit. They may be informed the reasons for the assignment or not. This can also be used as a Red Herring, with the people being watched drawing attention to themselves and possibly risking their lives doing so. Armed Robbery : the cell is assigned to steal something very valuable from private ownership. Watch the Skies : A UFO crash must be investigated (and covered up). We Are Not Alone : The cell runs into a "typical" group of investigators. Naturally, they get in the way and parody old characters. ******* The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 8:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: THE AUTUMN WIND On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Steven Kaye wrote: > Nice to see that there are some things that even creep edwards out. Wait till chapter seven of DREAMLANDERS. The Man in Black (not me, some fictional Man in Black) gets killed... several times. > Which leads to an interesting question - should experienced dreamers > be more freaked out by entropic manifestations a la COUNTDOWN? Less? > The same as anyone else? If you wanted to make Dreamers "hardened" I would say that they could choose to roll Dreaming instead of Sanity. They could risk losing Dreaming Skill in place of SAN or risk losing *both* Dreaming and SAN. Maybe both only on a critical failure. The possibility also exists that only SAN can be lost. If Dreaming dropped to zero, the Dreamers would become creepy Carcosan ghosts, possibly with a link to the Dreamlands. I'm too tired to include options on how to include this with the Carcosan SAN loss rules in Countdown. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 8:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ... On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > Generally speaking subs operate especially early nuke hunter-killers like > Thresher at MUCH lower speed [SECTION REDACTED] > high speeds are left for short dashes and evasion. I don't know about you, but I would rather be on Captain Layne's fast sub than your cruising one when the Shoggoths and Deep Ones and Whatevers start oozing and scraping and whatevering on the hull. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 8:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) In a message dated 4/30/00 11:01:02 AM Central Daylight Time, ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk writes: > 11 t-shirt orders so far hope more people get interested > If only I had a credit card, I swear I'd go into debt to order one. I _swear_. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 7:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Signal to Noise ratio was ( FAQ and MiB's Brain (was Re: DG: Psych Support) The question is; is it high quality off-topic noise? Some of the best stuff on the list in the early days was off topic. Remember the exploding hamster? Phil On Mon, 1 May 2000 01:18:25 +0100 (BST) Stephen Joseph Ellis writes: > > > I hate to mention it guys, but given the recent off-topic > posts > and so forth, I dont think we warrant the high 'signal to noise' > award any > more. > > Steve. > > "In the long run we are all dead" > > -John Maynard Keynes > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones In a message dated 4/30/00 3:12:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << But I just can't bring myself to see Deep Ones cloistering themselves in buildings all day. Especially the small ones, who should be swimming in schools instead of floundering about in claustrophobic and awkward artificial Blue Holes in some truant parody of humanity. >> Stop thinking of them as fish. They aren't. I'm not saying I know what they are, but we're pretty sure they aren't fish. They are web-footed bipeds and tool users that cannot compete with better constructed forms in free water. Not until ingenious tool use or magick is added to the mix. If you must use fish models, use the fish that cling to coral and pull their prey out of the holes and fissures through cleverness and observation and primitive tool use. This clinging to structures and the bottom allows for the eventual use of the DO designed Giant Enhanced Fiddler Crab armored battalions and tailored-crustacean battle armor with like spikes and pincers and shit, and DO-amplifying exoskeletons. So think about it. To avoid the claustrophobic, think of amphitheaters covered by an open lattice dome which supports the plant life that eats the constant rain of fish shit. Further, an erected structure would be designed to flush silt, to create an environment conducive to vision-heavy tasks where it is easy to breathe. Rather than 'in' and 'out', DO could tend to describe the environment in terms of water clarity. 'In' is clear water, 'out' is muckraking under the shit. Sound carries and bounces well underwater. Sound-dampening surfaces strategically placed and integrated into design would make city life more pleasant, or focused, and would help explain the lack of SOSUS anomalies. Dr. Emerson didn't hypothesis much in the way of echolocation structures, but as he often pointed out he had no specimens or samples to work with. I figure if hippos talk to each other underwater through clicks and unsuspected receptor structures, DOs surely do. Incidentally, Dr. Emerson. The transition state of lungs between hybrid and AH bothered you, and it bugs me, too. We don't have any samples, so this is all speculation and design, but I wonder if there is any conceivable possible way that slits along or under the ribs could have been missed or mangled by whatever records we have. Because I think I may have thought of a way it could work. 1) Gill slits on the head. This requires the gills to be contained in the skull with a high volume of water passed through them. 2) Lungs are problematic underwater. You need to collapse them or something at depth, they can mess up bouyancy. Even if internal lung tissue can extract oxygen from water, you still have to suck water in and out of a bag. When DOs come to the surface, I bet the first thing they have to do before a banzai charge is stand around with their webbed hands on their knees and upchuck all that seawater out of their lungs so they can breathe air. No way. I'd rather every observer misremembered something easily missed when a DO is on the surface. They have a slit just under the bottom rib on both sides. It is held tightly closed by a reflex that defaults to tightly squeezed shut when a DO is killed or rendered unconscious on the surface. I propose that the hybrid lung begins to develop an internal structure of gill material in the lung during the surface stage. I think it would look like a slinky or open weave chinese finger trap growing from the bronchial(?) passage to the bottom of the lung where it will anchor to the wall as the flap develops. The structure would allow the free passage of air during the surface stage, but could be completely ready by the time they take the plunge. They might cough a lot at first as the lungs get used to the new stimulus, so the invalid stage could be usually explained as 'consumption'. The constant fog, you know. Look, I'm a systems guy, I'll farm out the detail work. What this would act like is this: They grow the internal structure and perhaps are bed-ridden during the process. Sort of like walking pneumonia without so much fever and a big appetite. Lots of coughing. Why? Because I want something besides the 'Innsmouth look' as a marker. Have you noticed how many people are coughing nowadays? They say it's the unusual pollen count or El Nino or environmental pollution or something. Do a DO scenario during flu season. Now the gill flaps are the intake and the rib slits are the exhaust. Rib slits closed, gill slits open, inhale. Gill slits closed, ribslits open, exhale. When in air, open rib slits and let water drain out in a gush. As they continue to develop as a new DO, they could grow rings of muscle around the chinese finger trap gill structure. When engorged, the muscles seal up much of the gill into a tube from bronchial intake to rib exhaust. Then the gill slits and rib slits can be left open as the muscles pump water through peristalsis. The peristasis would also create turbulence which would expose more oxygenated water across the gills, maximizing the efficiency. This will have a profound effect on core body heat. However, if the tube seems a little too neat, how about this?: The gill structure is more like screens of balleen. As the DO continues to develop the sternum dissolves or pushes to the surface, detached from the ribs. Extra musculature flexes at the independent ribs to create the peristalsis. Too bad we don't have any specimens to verify any of this. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: HUMOR: DOing lunch In a message dated 4/30/00 3:24:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Capt.Billy.Whizbang@hearstpapers.com writes: << leaving the Navy clear to get on and go postal on the AH city . Sending a clear message to the AH - "Nukes work. Maybe we can't do Cthulu , but you are something else entirely " That will put the AH back in their place.>> Rue Terrania, by Jingo! They won't forget that little bit of gunboat diplomacy for awhile. I was doing lunch at the Citywalk with *Ssth(whistle) [which is the best I can do and he winces sometimes when I say it], who works as a Creature From The Black Lagoon at the Universal tour. Pretty decent guy, but kind of wry and sardonic like most expatriots in a strange land. Smokes unfiltered Camels whenever he can, so we were sipping some microbrew chosen for cool names and arcane ingredients and downing oyster shooters out on the patio at the fish place with the diving bell and the helmet with the thing by that place. We were daring each other to designer hot sauces arranged by Scoville rating and continent of origin. That's *Ssth(whistle) all over; nicotine and spice and everything nice. He's even a happy drunk. He says he's such a deep one he doesn't dare live with them, whatever that means. Anyway, somewhere around Endorphin Rush the subject of that sort of thing and how the AH would react came up, what with us being engaged in mutually assured destruction and all. He said that the Thresher incident was a very divisive issue in the AH civilization. You see, the Thresher was not attacked by AH commandos, it was being monkey-wrenched by an AH conservation activist group that was protesting the dumping of nuclear waste. Very 60s. So the elder AH get all sanctimonious about rash action and then we destroy that city off Devil's Reef. Well, before you can say Tonkin Gulf Resolution, the elders get all nationalistic under this leader who uses hunting metaphors to get them all feral and they are doing police actions and terrorist raids and getting all martial and instituting a draft. In fact, much of the fighting was among different AH city-states as the campaign against surface aggression required the full cooperation of all AH civilization whether they wanted to or not. Many younger AH citizens, the ones expected to fight these battles, looked at the big picture and demanded a public examination of the question of coming into conflict with the surface. Some questioned the morality of escalating a fight they had started. Some priests of a pacifist cult that advocated keeping Cthulhu asleep protested by dowsing themselves with scavenger shoggoth slime. Many youth loudly asked if the elders would be so anxious to attack the surface if they had to beach themselves with the first wave. I'm not sure, but whenever he talks about the elders it's usually in contexts of fat and huge. Others of the middle class noted the size of the explosion that destroyed the AH city. "Did you HEAR that thing?" they'd ask at rallys demanding a rollback to a purely defensive stance, even advocating diplomacy. Then there was the moral dilemma about what happened at Party Beach, which made the professed reasons for the police action dubious. In any case, *Ssth(whistle) was an apprentice artist and had no deferment, so he says no thanks and surfaced in Venice on Halloween. I asked him what he was apprenticing in and he told me that he was a performance artist that swam about the public currents performing extemporaneous interactions with invisible props or partners, often swimming parallel to a citizen and exaggeratedly mirroring their every movement for the delight of the, well, audience doesn't really convey the idea because he said most of them paid him to go away. He said he performed these japes in absolute silence, without even sonar clicks according to tradition and the example of a famous one who came from a Mediterranean city where they rudely eat abalone and smell funny. Sorry, I'm not sure I got all that right, because we were both pretty buzzed and thinking about expresso. We're both careful about getting behind the wheel when drinking, *Ssth(whistle) especially because he has enough trouble getting from gas to brake with his feet. So he was going to window shop, maybe pick up some comics at the place with the models and anime stuff. I was going to catch a matinee at the megamulticineplex. I'm still reeling from it. *Ssth(whistle), one of THEM. Oh man. And I thought he was a nice guy. Agent Orange *Ssth(whistle) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones In a message dated 4/30/00 3:02:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << > So - I'd buils walls and roofs anyway - at least for part of the structure. No man, huge domes. Underwater cities should have huge domes, and like - in areas without too much geological activity - slender spires that would crumble on the surface, but are held up by natural water pressure or some widget or twonky force. >> Shit yeah. Hitchcock 101, use the location. Pick honkin' arches that harness current power from free floating majestically turning turbine blades shrouded in clouds of symbiont fish. Vast networks of tubes holding liquid constantly flowing in a closed loop from light zone warmth to deep trench cold. Make them clear like a jellyfish. Go for the ever kewl luminescent effects, but consider most of it being about pools of high intensity light for tech work, or delineating structures for non-sonar navigation. I figure a city would want to find ways to eliminate needless clicking. Noise pollution. Oh, and don't forget the hitchin' posts for the seahorses and the geodesic not-coral domes for the sea monkeys. Hey, about this not-coral thing. We all want our coral, am I right? We want a porous fractal-edged to lacey-filigreed architecture with the occasional cluster of spikes, right? Or are we doing Rome but underwater? So c'mon you natural philosophy boffins, I want a naturally occurring creature that lives at a goodly depth, eats seawater and shits a house. Do we have something like that? Mark McFadden Getting proactive, thinking outside the box, proposing a new paradigm, and delegating authority to create a dynamic team model consistent with the best practices of the leaders in the industry. Really, this is getting out of control, I'm going to need a staff to handle the operations end of things. I'll require at least two immediate subordinates plus support staff to get up to speed after the mess the last guy left, and I suppose they might need supervisors to implement the day to day stuff. One of my managers can have my old office. The chick, maybe. I'll draw up a budget, but let's not let this die on the vine, we have some discretion over funds so let's get the ball rolling and do this people. Questions? Right! Let's win one for the Gipper. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cookie code In a message dated 4/30/00 12:27:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, graemep@immagene.mcg.edu writes: << The Spartans also used a variant on this with a hexagonal cross-section rod, where you wrap the message strip around the rod and read off the plaintext horizontally. My guess is that it would have been phased out reasonably quickly as being too absurdly easy to break. >> But the trick wasn't in the deciphering, it was in knowing that there was a message encoded in the messenger's belt. If I was running the system, I would have every messenger carry disinfo in an easily broken cypher, and explain to them that the belt was scribbled on by priests to protect the messenger. He was to give it to the general, as the belt was really a fresh good-luck-in-war blessing from the priesthood. Don't let the other side have it or they will receive the benefit. Just hook your thumbs under the belt and snap when captured. And I like the idea of replacing the cone with the hexagonal rod. It would make a lovely marshal's baton and no one would think anything odd of the general keeping it close. ObDG: a system you might see in the Dreamlands. More a meditation on hiding in plain sight than in unbreakable cryptography. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: PARADISE ISLAND In a message dated 4/30/00 2:39:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << The NWI/Karotechia part comes with the current owners - the South African Sun International Resort development firm. SUN = AZATHOTH! >> Lemme hear ya now! I I I I I I Ain't gonna play Sun Ci-tay, yeah. Don't harsh my buzz on South Africa, man. If things are shitty there, I don't want to know. I just remember the 80s, you know? People in Orange County (naturally) pointing in horror at the TV at 'those (shudder) *savages*' dragging (white) people from their homes and killing them with axes. Axes!!! I'd reply that I was sure that they would have used machine-guns if they had them, you have to give them some leeway and allow gardening implements in the Third World that was the townships. And I thought not messing up the house was a thoughtful touch. And then the inexplicable. They put it to a vote? They voted to go sane? What the fuck? Just let me believe it all worked out and everyone is cool about it now. I'm begging you here. Mark McFadden Wants to believe