From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Fwd: FAQ Urgency (was Re: DG: People...people who hate people) In a message dated 4/30/00 4:14:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << > No more lone justice. WHAT~!? End our cowboy days? And then what, implement some weak-@$$ cell structure! Close the open frontier! >> These mealy-mouthed weak sisters are getting on the fightin' side of me I tell you what. Stop vigilante justice? One of our proudest peculiar institutions? We're Cowboys dammit. We go long and strike deep. We thrust deep and continue to thrust for awhile. We kick supernatural ass and take Names That Shall Not Be Named. When we came here this list was a wasteland. Not much content and any decent post was swarmed by spam and those savages who speak in all caps. But we by God whipped this list into shape, and if that meant stringing up the occasional renegade well that's just what we did. Hunted down every spammer and dry-gulched 'em. Well now we have a decent list where a man can raise a family, and these *immigrants*, these *newbies* want to waltz in here with their funny music and foreign accents and put up fences..fences...to keep out my bull? That will happen when you pry my keyboard from my cold dead fingers. I'd like you to meet my new regulator. Looks a little like Jack Palance, doesn't he? Regulator: Go on punk. Pick up the keyboard. Newbie: I don't want to mess with you mister. I'm just in town to buy some gingham and a ribbon for Becky Sue. Regulator: Are you Yellow? Go on, pick up the keyboard. Newbie: If I do, you'll cut me off at the knees. Regulator: Maybe. Maybe not. Boy I'm mean. I think I'll go pick on anyone with more melanin than me. Rex Saurus Texas Ranger From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology In a message dated 4/30/00 5:23:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << > One of my favorite themes: the cult of management as a force working towards > the Endtimes. So what you're saying is that people rise to their level of incompetance. >> That was in the good old days. Now the incompetent can just keep rising, and if they fall they have a golden parachute. And don't get me started on the new improved Peter2000 Principle. But, offline, I'd invest in codpieces. You didn't hear it from me. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Timothy Betz [vag@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 1:50 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: DGML T-Shirt Oh I see, you wait until _now_ to demand money, right when the Australian Dollar's offical exchange rate is something like 2 pence and a bit of string... On a more serious note, while I intend to buy a T-Shirt (assuming I can afford the hideous rate of exchange and find someone with a credit card to con into purchasing the thing for me...) I, being the incredibly impatient bastard that I am, went and had my own T-Shirt made up. The graphic for said T-Shirt can be seen here: http://arcadia.buseco.monash.edu.au/~eccles/images/t-shirts/dg_spotting_huge.gif http://arcadia.buseco.monash.edu.au/~eccles/images/t-shirts/dg_spotting_small.gif Neither of these is the Image that was actually used to make the shirt, the one that was is of a higher quality. The text was a collaboration between myself and Rob Shankly, and the actual image was put together by Damien Moore (a friend of ours, and non list member). Damien and myself can be seen wearing said shirts here: (WARNING - unprocessed digital camera photos, 250k each) http://enoch.buseco.monash.edu.au/~vag/P0002727.JPG http://enoch.buseco.monash.edu.au/~vag/P0002735.JPG http://enoch.buseco.monash.edu.au/~vag/P0002737.JPG Finally: Apologies to the Delta Green Partnership for the use of the Delta Green logo without permission, I figured no-one would care for a T-Shirt with a print run of 2. If there is any sort of copyright notice you'd like me to add in the event that we ever print any more, please let me know... -- Tim Betz From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Signal to Noise On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:57:16 -0700 Philip A Posehn wrote: >The question is; is it high quality off-topic noise? >Some of the best stuff on the list in the early days was off topic. >Remember the exploding hamster? There's noise, and then there's noise (like the way you keep forgetting to trim your posts, Phil). SOmetimes we wander around with something that seems, no *is*, really off-topic, and then amazingly, it comes on-topic. Like how just recently the rant about bad bosses turned (for a while anyway) into something to help the GM more effectively portray Whole Earth Enterprises execs. ANd I liked the Lizard King-vs-MiB bit, because it was funny. That was all the defense it needed. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:00 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. Hmmm. Go away for 2 days and the list spawns 144 messages Davide Mana wrote: (-) > . netiquette > This _is_ important, so we put it right on top. (-) Damn right. And at the VERY top of the Netiquette section let us please put a carefully contructed explanation of how and why to use Keepers-Eyes-Only (Spoiler) Warnings and the unspeakable horror that awaits those that do not. And while I'm prioritising other people's free time, the FAQ should mention the Gunfondlers, the Dojo, the Knifefondlers and the Run-Screaming-and-Hide-Faction. And warn people that we have discussed (a) Glasers and (b) Dragonsbreath rounds... :) -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:26 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones Greetings. Excellent post on DO architecture from the Ruler of the Scaly Ones. To the quantity of scenic elements, I'd add floating buildings - whole structures hanging suspended over the cityscape thanks to differential flotation. Another wild thought.... > Incidentally, Dr. Emerson. The transition state of lungs between hybrid and >AH bothered you, and it bugs me, too. We don't have any samples, so this is >all speculation and design, but I wonder if there is any conceivable possible >way that slits along or under the ribs could have been missed or mangled by >whatever records we have. > Because I think I may have thought of a way it could work. Good thoughts, but what about liquid breathing? (remember the rat in the Abyss?) Let's say the transition from tainted human to full-fledged DO causes the lungs to progressively fill with a biologically secreted liquid that acts as oxigen carrier and also takes care of pressure when underwater. It could be a much more economical way of handling the transition than the transformation of human lungs into collapsible structures. Also, the liquid has to be in some state of equilibrium with the seawater. This could also lend a new angle to the transition syndrome - your lungs are filling with water, and the only way to keep the fluid functional is to jump in the see. You know it instinctively. You feel your breath being cut short, lungs rattling with each breath, you start croaking like a frog with each new inhalation, it hurts (no compensating outside presure, no pectorals striong enough yet to contain the mass), it's weird. You lie down and this salty liquid pours from your nose and mouth soaking the pillow. Your wife nags you about seeing the doctor and all the while you KNOW that just a short swim down there where it's all quiet, cold and tranquil is al you need. Screw the doc, screw the dame. You just cut away and run to the sea. Then all it will be allright. > Too bad we don't have any specimens to verify any of this. That could be solved easily. Time to do some Hemingway. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:54 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: New Mi5 facility Hello all, I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this but it is a Bank Holiday here so here goes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_731000/731571.stm the Government is establishing a new cetre based in Mi5 to intercept e-mail and moniter the internet. Another new organisation for character templates for UK scenarios. Later Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk Our kind. Us people. All of us that started the game with a crooked cue, that wanted so much and got so little, that meant so good and did so bad. Jim Thompson 'The Killer Inside Me' http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/tshirt.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 10:05 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Mass Loss? Hello All, The following report makes interesting reading and an interesting idea for a scenario: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_732000/732018.stm whereas this mass loss is explained by the accuracy of the experiment increasing, what if everytime the experiment is run the figure keeps getting smaller? What could explain the mass loss - Dimensional Shambler activity increasing is one of the themes of the original Delta Green but that is explained by the book itself, however what if the Shamblers once summoned a few times are starting to "default" to Earth when they need to avoid something and are taking chunks away each time. Would make a san blasting revelation if the connections were draw by an Agent or friendly. Or even worse what if its deliberate Shambler activity designed for a reason? Shambler Nest building? We never really discussed Shambler phisyology or reproduction anyone have any ideas. Hypothetically if they are creating nests using material they pick up this would be a growing problem a few generations down the line when theoretically the offspring of the shamblers follow their progenitors in using the earth as a source of materials. Anyway its a slow day as you can tell. Later Rob. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mass Loss? >From: "Robert Thomas" >designed for a reason? Shambler Nest building? We never really >discussed Shambler phisyology or reproduction anyone have any >ideas. Hypothetically if they are creating nests using material they I have LOTS of ideas about shamblers. :) Check out my page: http://wtimmins.tripod.com/DG/endtime/etds.html Conceivably, the Shamblers' reconstruction efforts are causing strange effects on spacetime on Earth. -=Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Stephen Joseph Ellis [sje1@st-andrews.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:56 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: DG FAQ (was New Mi5 facility) Here is another question for the FAQ. "I am an internal security agent of MI5, NSA or the phone company. Email filtering has registered this FAQ as containing several relevant keywords. The contents of this Mailing list appear to be subversive and indicate an unparalleled degree of information sharing between individuals of several nationalities who keep referring to 'the conspiracy'. Should I be concerned and alert my superiors?" Steve. "In the long run we are all dead" -John Maynard Keynes On Mon, 1 May 2000, Robert Thomas wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_731000/731571.stm > > the Government is establishing a new cetre based in Mi5 to > intercept e-mail and moniter the internet. Another new organisation > for character templates for UK scenarios. > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Abel Lindburg [abel_123@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Astropalaeobiology makes many great observations, which I nitpick at inline: > One point that I encountered again and again and again is people with >degrees in one thing and working in another. The sampling I saw was of course >determined by the contracts on my plate. When I was supporting R&D folk in >aerospace, I seldom met a programmer who had any degrees in the field they >were working in. History, Mathematics, Economics, Petrology, Literature, >Astronomy, Poli Sci, the list went on and on, but not in anything directly >related to computing. Of course, this was the mid-80s, and the demographics >of graduates were different 'back then'. This is similar to my experience, though I myself am a programmer, though my degree is in English Literature. I was going to be a poet *haughty sniff* though I originally started as a music major. > The second point I hesitate to bring up because it sounds so insulting, but >here it is. Remember, this is my experience in a limited environment. Ahem. >The best programmers (or 'Software Engineers') were not trained as >programmers. By best, I mean the people that the others turned to for answers >or troubleshooting. The people with degrees in Computer Science were >generally on the obvious management fast track. Here, my experience differs. Not that computer science majors were the be-all end-all of software development, but it really depends on the school. I was lucky enough to go to a college where computer scientists actually *programmed*, and did work on life critical systems and multi-processor convex systems. Admittedly, this has changed, as the money factor in being a technologist goes up, and the field attracts those that smell money as opposed to enjoying having a 'CRT sunburn' >Looked great, gave good >meeting and never touched code again throughout their career. Most of them >didn't seem to *like* computers much. Like computers? I loathe them. One developes a love/hate relationship with something one spends a great deal of time with. But love and hate are twin horns on the same bull, as the saying goes. Its those that are ambivalent to them that tend to want to be on the management fast track. But let me rant a little about managers, as I get the feeling you are lumping those with administrative skills in the same category as those that simply want more money/power and see management as a track to such goals. Strangely enough, the only game I have seen which actually accounts for administration as a skill is the Star Trek roleplaying game, where it makes sense for someone to say, "I'm going to administrate this group skill test". But that is only a minor point in comparison to my assertion that the are useful managers out there -- most of whom are less visible to those they manage than their less efficient or productive counterparts. > Meanwhile, the hairy rock-climbing ex-Geology major was coordinating the >code and catching discrepancies and resolving conflicts and actually making >that blasphemous chimera of a bad idea *work*. >If I had a nickel for every >time a high profile project-breaker of a problem came to a screeching halt >and had to wait for an ex-astronomer\historian\economist to return from a >much-needed vacation, I would have five times as much money than I would have >if I hadn't jumped at that penny offer. While its not always the case, I will point out its because said rock-climber/guru didn't bother to document their non-euclidian build process because it should be "self-evident" how it works. On another minor rant, they can be just as frustrating as the micro managers. Another type that annoys me is the "if its not incomprehensible, then I haven't established my guru status" types to proceed to make life difficult for those they work around while patting themselves on the back for another birttle solution. Again, your mileage may differ, and my examples are not *always* the case. > > Out in the nasty ol' business world, some sharp folks noticed that there was >a path for advancement in management, but not for gurus. Problem, but not one >any executive wants to get on them. Pay scales and corporate-designed career >paths reward the gurus for dropping what they do exceptionally well and >taking up management - which means never doing that thing they do so well >ever ever again. No time, too many meetings and evaluations are overdue and >where's the budget? And put on a tie for Chrissake. > If a guru stays where they are and continues guruing, they will hit the >ceiling in about 3 steps then hover forever with cost-of-living increases. Yes, this is indeed true with many dinosaur organizations. However, there is also a practical limit as to how much one guru can produce. Banging out code is banging out code, and with good design, any idiot can do that. So where does a guru go? Well they don't leave the code, but they do become part of the 'bigger picutre' looking at archetecture, and software development processes within an organization. Then, their innovation and skills touch many pieces of code, not just a few. Hey, this even has a Delta Green reference, because those agents which do their intelligence work (aka research, analysis and design) come out much better than those that rush in, six guns ablazin. >And more and more vacation days every year, which pisses off management when >projects get disrupted by their absence. The only way to get the >reimbursement due for someone of their experience is to stop doing it. In dinosaur organizations, this is true. However, in many consulting organizations, that is no longer the case. > I heard that some company (headed by an ex-problem solver) actually created >the job titles of Magician, Wizard and Guru to provide a pay and perq >structure for the good engineers\scientists\programmers\nexialists so that >they could keep solving problems. > Sounds like an Urban Legend. Its not though we used the title Grand Poobah. Seriously though, the perfect software engineer is a mix of soft and hard skills. Another point is that management types, in their white hat role, are also problem solvers, as they remove roadblocks to keep the developers developing, and keeping sales, who never understood a whit about requirements, off their backs. > > Damn, how did I get here from there? > Shortest path between two points. > So let's Ob some DG. Okay. Lets. DG characters can be specialists, being very good at some skills, and need a team to support them, or can be (as I design them) more generalist, having the ability to do many things at a fairly okay level. I don't think either is *better* but a good Keeper needs to know how the team wants to work. >Mark McFadden > Some companies actually have policies forbidding taping up Dilbert cartoons. >Specifically Dilbert. The *cartoons* are bad for morale. Yes, and a Canadian company encouraged a cartoonist to write cartoons and put them on the company bulletin board, even though they made fun of the company, training policies, and management. The parent company, on a vist, was infuriated. However, the site manager insisted they were "good for morale, and besides, funny" and encouraged the practice, which in many PM workshops, has become a hallmark of 'not being a pointy haired boss about things' Abel No, I'm not a manager. I just like good managers. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:20 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: Hopefully a test message Move on. Nothing to see. Just seeing if I can get a message through - been able to lurk, but not post for a few days. -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Management ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana >One of the most incredible laughs I had in my life whas when, in a >London bookstore, I found both the Hagakure and Takuan Soho's >Letters to the Sword Masters (a very interesting, multilayered zen >book from the 17th century) in the business management section of >a bookstore. 'Learn the secret's of Japan's commercial success!', a >slip screamed from poor Takuan's book-cover. You really should get & read "The Dilbert Principle" oir even better "The Joy Of Work". This is the Glove Cleaner speaking, and I tell you they chime in with my worldview quite well and even taught me things. >As a scientists, I want to _explain_ things to other people. >I have no interest in just convincing people they understand. Yes, yes, yes. Our corporate industry thrives on keeping people like you (like us) in this state. Honesty, craftsmanship, and intelligence are not what Baal needs, but It can eat them and shit something more useful. Your idealism is cheaper than a decent wage, and you are now being eaten. Dilbert will help you cope with it, in a sugar coated pill and all, and even dodge the worst effects. Baal is not too smart. Read those books. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:23 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones ---- Original Message ----- From: > I want a naturally occurring creature that lives > at a goodly depth, eats seawater and shits a house. Do we have something like > that? No but we do have Sea Cucumbers. These live at depths of up to 3 km and eat sea muck. Their shit is more compacted mud without the organic goo. Maybe if you add a little biotech you can teach them to shit stuff that hardens like a plastic, concretion bacteria, and so on. --- *** --- But Sea Cucumbers are interesting for another reason. You know ATMOM is, like, a thematic sequel to "The Voyage Of Arthur Gordon Pym"? And you know how in that novel by Poe the ship comes to the transAntarctic land of the Tsalal - where the men are black, even to their teeth? Well, one of the things the folk of Tsalal feed off are these Sea Cucumbers. Sea Cucumbers have, um, five-fold rotational symmetry. ATMOM is a thematic sequel to "The Voyage Of Arthur Gordon Pym" --- *** --- Can you say "Racial Degeneration"? Can you guess what the mighty Star-headed Elder Race ended up doing for a living? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Pagoda -----Original Message----- From: Graeme Price To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 28 April 2000 22:16 Subject: DG: Pagoda >Just had a look at Auntie's ever informative web site, and found that they >are running a special piece on the 20th anniversary of the Iranian embassy >siege (interestingly, they have a hyperlink to a section called "the cult >of the SAS".... which may confirm what we have suspected for some months). >Anyway, check the whole article out at: > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/iranian_embassy_si e >ge/intro.stm > >later > >Graeme > >(who is tempted to put a DG spin on the case of the missing british >computer programmer living in NYC whose body was found yesterday in a New >Jersey swamp. He had apparently been abducted by someone [supposedly >working for his former lover] claiming to be an FBI agent. Does this sound >like the MO for ANDREA to anyone else?) > Actually, he comes from the area I've just moved into - Erdington in Birmingham. Further, he was a regular at the local games shop in town. -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. -----Original Message----- From: The Man in Black To: Davide Mana Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 01 May 2000 00:31 Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. >Here's some of what was written in the days of yore, Mmm... Yore > >Some Questions to add: > >Q: What is the ICE CAVE? And add the URL. >Q: What is Delta-Green.com? >Q: Who's gonna update that question about the archives? >Q: How should the questions be organized? >Q: I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! > WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME~!? > >******* > >The Delta Green FAQ > >by the Delta Green Mailing List >created 7 March 2000 >last updated 25 April 2000 > >******* > >INTRO: Hi, I'm the Man in Black and I have zero tolerance for ignorant >fools who waste the time of listmembers by trowling out a load of tripe >that has been trod to death many times over in the past. So hopefully this >FAQ will minimize any fits of personal horror experienced by DGML >subscribers. > >Here are some important instuctions on how to avoid such distasteful >affairs: > >1. Before you ask a single solitary question about anything on the Delta >Green Mailing List, you must first use a variety of search engines to see >what the major internet sites on the subject have to say. > Would it not be more useful to have the main sites listed, along with URL. The FAQ should be helpful, after all. Shouldn't it? >2. Read the archives whenever you get the chance. On a 5 or less on 1d6, >your question has been already been answered in there. > >3. LURK YOU FREAK~! If you do not lurk for an appreciable period, you will >be swimming with the sharks, I guarantee it. How did you get a computer >and learn email operations without enough brains to bother with >netiquette. This applies to discussion lists and usenet as well, BTW. > Please/Thank you. There's netiquette and there's etiquette. I believe in both. > > >Q: I found a rilly KEWL WEBSITE~! Should I let everyone know? >A: Sure, as long as you include the URL... > >Q: I can almost read this rilly KEWL BOOK~! Should I let everyone know? >A: Sure, as long as you include the International Standard Book Number, >or ISBN. This allows our international friends to acquire your coloring >book, or whatever. More info on the ISBN conspiracy can be found here: > How a list of reccomended reading on the FAQ - or a link to one? -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:23 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: The Amber Room Given the recent return of pieces of the Amber Room of Tsar Peter the Great by the Germans to the Russians, one has to wonder what might be in the chest from the room. Any thoughts? [For more information, go to the BBC news/Europe site and do a search on Amber Room.] Oh, yes, just read Archangel and first reaction was, "wouldn't the Ghouls be happy?!" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) -----Original Message----- From: The Man in Black To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 28 April 2000 04:34 Subject: Re: DG: RE: Newbie says hi and asks 2 questions :) >On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, R. Hyrum Savage wrote: > >> We did something similar to a GURPS DG game a couple years back and used >> GURPS Voodoo. It's *amazingly* better than the standard GURPS Magic which >> IMHO is really dry and has absolutely no flavor. > >At the risk of dragging far off topic, that is exactly the point. GURPS >Magic is only mechanics, all the local flavor must be provided by the >background. For example, I use GURPS Magic for Jorune's Dyshas. In my >three different fantasy worlds I have devised a complicated system of Pure >and Hybrid forms that take a paragraph or two to describe the rules. Of >course, the descriptions of how the forms combine, the effects on the >astral and ethereal, social uses (who casts what form) and so on, takes a >lot more time to read. > I may be a newbie here, but I have to disagree with the MiB here. It's been a bone of contention between us before. GURPS Magic is, unfortunately, overly-bureaucratic and this does lend it a lack of flavour in my opinion. Further, the Dyshas from Jorune are _not _ magic, but akin to magic and magic rules can be used to simulate their effects. Dyshas are the effects of woven ambient energy... >As for what to use in GURPS DG, I prefer Cthulhupunk. > Unfortunately, Cthulhupunk is an excellent but not totally realised idea... Further to play in its setting you need at least one supplement (GURPS Cyberworld) and that's not counting the rules books and supplements. -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: New Mi5 facility -----Original Message----- From: Robert Thomas To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 01 May 2000 15:01 Subject: DG: New Mi5 facility >Hello all, > >I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this but it is a Bank >Holiday here so here goes: > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_731000/731571.stm > >the Government is establishing a new cetre based in Mi5 to >intercept e-mail and moniter the internet. Another new organisation >for character templates for UK scenarios. > Off topic I know, but a friend of mine who works at the Houses of Parliament, but he related to me the story of how MI5 decided it could ignore the concept of planning permission. When London Underground were extending the Jubilee Line, they put in for planning permission. The line was due to go directly under Parliament. Suspecting that there was an MI5 facility directly underneath Parliament, they approached MI5 and told them about the planned extension, asking if it was okay for the line to go through as planned. No answer. Planning permission was granted. London Underground approached MI5 again. No answer. So London Underground said, "We've got permission, let's go ahead." So they did. MI5 only disagreed with London Underground's planning permission when a tunnelling machine bore through the walls of their facility under the Houses of Parliament. -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: The Wolrd Ends...When? -----Original Message----- From: USFORREC1@aol.com To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 30 April 2000 07:03 Subject: DG: Re: The Wolrd Ends...When? Sorry, running a little bit late (as usual) on this thread and wanted to throw this out to the list. This is the timeline I envision (and use in my campaigns) for the EndTimes. As usual I add my disclaimers of its all my opinion and not necessarily loyal to anybody's canon and your mileage may vary with it (and so on, ad nauseum). The EndTimes were set into motion by World War One, the Great Depression, and (especially) World War Two. These events reshaped and changed the face of our world forever. For the mythos-related forces, these times were critical. As the stars began to come right the influence of the GOOs/OGs became more pronounced, subtly influencing humanity's path. The lesser mythos races started undergoing changes, some becoming extinct or departing Earth (such as the Sand Dwellers or Lliogor) and some changing tactics (like the Mi-Go). The old cults began to adapt to the changing times or died on the vine. This was the reason for the sudden surge in mythos activity during this time. You had the clash of the old ways with the new times, something mirrored in both mankind and mythos. When everything had cleared, you had new orders in both arenas. This was the signal of the coming times. [The Endtimes are heralded in Pagan Publishing's Realm of Shadows campaign. I cannot reccomend it highly enough if you don't have it.] -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Mass Loss? ---- Original Message ----- From: Robert Thomas > whereas this mass loss is explained by the accuracy of the > experiment increasing, what if everytime the experiment is run the > figure keeps getting smaller? What could explain the mass loss - A quick guess, a guess only - - - There is a considerable amount of "ghost" matter or "dark" matter associated with the Earth. Our type of matter ("baryonic" matter) interacts through the Electromagnmetic force, the Strong and Weak nuclear forces, and Gravity. "Dark" matter may have a different set of forces. The only force it would _have_ to have in common with our sort of matter is Gravity. Geometry of space and all that. ---- **** ---- Lovecraft writes again and again of Mythos entities within the Earth. These cannot be made of normal matter. So, think of a bunch of fuzzy overlapping clouds of Dark Matter centred round the Earth's core. Each different cloud is a different sort of dark matter: Each sort of matter has its own set of basic forces and its own type of life. They only interact with us (or each other) by gravity - except when magic (= Mythos science) is involved. I'm guessing that these various "clouds of dark matter" are the substrate of the "flabby inky jellyfish monsters" in "From Beyond", and the foundation of the "Inner City at the Magnetic Poles" mentioned in "The Dunwich Horror". Among others. How this may or may not relate to "Domains" is an open question. ---- **** ---- So The Earth is getting lighter? Easy. The EndTimes are coming. All of this Dark Matter that is animate and ambulant (and if "From Beyond" is to be trusted a lot of it is ) is leaving. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:04 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: The Wolrd Ends...When? Again, greetings. > The lesser mythos races >started undergoing changes, some becoming extinct or departing Earth (such >as the Sand Dwellers or Lliogor) Do not be so sure about the Lloigor. And I mean it. Something is about to happen. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. Gretings. Pookie (welcome on board - judging from your sig we share some interests) wrote >>Q: What is the ICE CAVE? > >And add the URL. I'll put the URLs, yes, but I'll limit the number of sites recommended as 'required reading to avoid blunders'. I mean - there's an awful lot of DG-related sites on the web. Lots of them are excellent. But we need a minimum of required reading - we can't a ask a newcomer to spend fifty hours on the web just to check all the sites. On the other hand, the few suggested sites all feature a list of links, so everyone should be happy. We need to indicate the best starting points, not map the whole road. >How a list of reccomended reading on the FAQ - or a link to one? Same as the above - both delta-green.com and the Cave contain extensive reading matter listings, and even links to places where reading matter can be downloaded for free. But there's some good in the suggestion, so we could at least plug the Penguiin Edition of HPL's works, adding the explanation that this is the first time the Master gets listed as Literature. We will heavily hint that _obviously_ subscribers are familiar with the whole Pagan back-catalog. And this is it. Thanks for the suggestions, and my compliments for having the courage of dissecting the MiB's post. Cheers! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:13 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Amber Room Louise Hayes schrieb: > Given the recent return of pieces of the Amber Room of Tsar Peter the Great > by the Germans to the Russians, one has to wonder what might be in the chest > from the room. Any thoughts? Probably it might even be more interesting to check out the pieces of art our government received in exchange for these valuable things from the amber room. Might be objects of art looted from Karotechia vaults during the Red Army's raid on Berlin. > > [For more information, go to the BBC news/Europe site and do a search on > Amber Room.] Or the Spiegel-Online site for those speaking German. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Stephen Joseph Ellis [sje1@st-andrews.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Newbie FAQ advice Newbies, If you earn the MiB's wrath, then give as good as you get. Consider it as rite of passage or something. Points will be awarded for the skill and elegance of your arguments and insults. Otherwise tickle him under his chin because he is really just a cuddly bear. :) Steve. (who still bears the scars of his first encounters with the MiB. Still, his castration, however temporary, made it all worthwhile) "In the long run we are all dead" -John Maynard Keynes From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Mass Loss? Greetings. Andy intrigued me with.... >There is a considerable amount of "ghost" matter or "dark" matter associated >with the Earth. Can you suggest an accessible introductory reading on the subject? Something a guy raised studying rocks might be able to digest, I mean? >Lovecraft writes again and again of Mythos entities within the Earth. > >These cannot be made of normal matter. > >So, think of a bunch of fuzzy overlapping clouds of Dark Matter centred >round the Earth's core. There's s story by Fredric Brown, from the fifties (I guess). Can't remember the original English title - human colony on far planet orbiting a double star are harassed by - among other things - by local 'birds' flyng through the planet's crust. Due to different relation with density, these critters perceive the thin amsphere layer as 'void'. I often thought about that story when dealing with cthonians. Now this 'dark matter' thing gives the idea some scientific dignity. > >The Earth is getting lighter? Easy. > >The EndTimes are coming. > >All of this Dark Matter that is animate and ambulant (and if "From Beyond" >is to be trusted a lot of it is ) is leaving. > There is an old fashioned and relatively disgraced school of thought in geology, that traces its origin as far back as Dana and the earlier American geologists (but Lord Kelvin had a hand at it, too), that tends to explain a lot of phenomena - from tectonics to mass losses - with minimal and extremely slow (from human perspective) variation in earth's volume. Much of the theoretical work of these gentlemen was discredited after we left the planet's surface, and also acquired high precision measurement tools. We know that what they postulated - the earth inflating and deflating as a balloon - is not happening here and now. But maybe in the past, when the Great Old Ones walked the Earth.... And again, when the stars will be right.... Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Pagoda Louise (welcome) wrote in response to my good self: >>(who is tempted to put a DG spin on the case of the missing british >>computer programmer living in NYC whose body was found yesterday in a New >>Jersey swamp. He had apparently been abducted by someone [supposedly >>working for his former lover] claiming to be an FBI agent. Does this sound >>like the MO for ANDREA to anyone else?) >> >Actually, he comes from the area I've just moved into - Erdington in >Birmingham. Further, he was a regular at the local games shop in town. Ah. That would be Dungeons and Starships opposite the Coach Station then.... unless you mean the Virgin MegaStore (seriously, I went into the latter once and tried to buy one but they claimed to be out of stock. Bait and Switch, that's what I call it...). There would seem to be a nasty case of coincidence going on here. Confused yet? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:00 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: That Talkshow Madness Good Evening. I just watched TV for a while and kind of stumbled upon a late night talkshow. One of the guests was a Mrs. Schiller. That woman is a former RAF member [ no, NOT the Royal Air Force, the Red Army Fraction ==> terrorists! ] who just returned to Germany after staying in Cuba and Uruguay for more than 15 years. The woman has been condemned and served 6 1/2 years of time in prison for robbery, armed assault, attempted murder, etc. The lady just wrote her autobiography, that's why she came to Germany and into this show: To promote this book. And there she sat: Talking about her terrorist activities and showing no remorse. She defended her crimes with the "argument" that the capitalistic bastards killed even more than the RAF did. And the bloody host never called her a "RAF - terrorist", but a "RAF - activist". Oh, my. Anyway: Did anybody of you ever use talkshows [ from the O'Brien / Leno / Letterman type of late night show to the Ricki Lake type of daily talkshows ] in a scenario/campaign? Imagine a DG-Agent from the FBI investigating some strange case in some backwater village. He's finished his daily chores and sits on his Motel room's bed to down a couple of beers and watch some TV to relax [ It's something that I always found interesting about the X-Files: I guess that at least 35% of the show take place in motels ]. And then he zaps into some talkshow discussing a topic that relates to his DG work, like some show that discusses alien abductions and one of the guests claims that those Greys are just the tool of another even stranger race of aliens. Or a show about strange skin diseases and one of the guests family originally came from a pretty notorious coastal town in Massachussetts? And then there was this Italian TV show of the late 80s IIRC that I remember as being called "Io confesso" or something [ Davide?]: In that show people hidden behind some kind of wall could confess all the bad things they did in their life, from screwing their sister to performing cunnilingus on a horse or killing somebody. I guess one of the old Karotechia guys would make a perfect guest for that show. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Dark Matter ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana >>There is a considerable amount of "ghost" matter or "dark" matter associated >>with the Earth. > Can you suggest an accessible introductory reading on the subject? Alas, this is a Mythos-related speculation: non-Mythos science has not yet been able to detect Dark Matter. Unless http://cfpa.berkeley.edu/group/directdet/ As to the existence of Dark Matter in the universe as a whole - there are complex but sound cosmological reasons for believing in its existence. Look at http://cfpa.berkeley.edu/darkmat/dm.html > Something a guy raised studying rocks might be able to digest, I mean? I can't make it easy! But I guess you have heard of "Dark Matter" "The Missing Mass" and so on. Matter that does not interact with ordinary electrons or protons except gravitationally. In fact we have discussed it on this list. If that matter is "Cold", i.e. is composed of massive particles travelling slowly, we would definitely expect small amounts of it to gather in gravitational wells, like the center of the Earth. All I am adding to "real science" is the idea of that matter having a separate set of fundamental forces which could assemble it into molecule-analogues and eventually living things, and yet have these living things drift through our type of matter like empty air. Knowing what we do from Lovecraft, this seems a sensible _speculation_ (my emphasis). (Remember, I also speculated that the "Gate-trees" might be a form of Dark Matter. In that case we had a fractal topological rupture in space, extending as the Universe stretches. This is completely different from the WIMP (Weakly Interacting Massive Particle) Dark Matter I am speculating about now.) But we should avoid "closure" - at least 85% of the Universe's mass seems to be "dark" and there is no reason to assume it is all of one type. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones Mark "Curse you Troy Tempest!!" McFadden wrote: > Incidentally, Dr. Emerson. The transition state of lungs between hybrid and >AH bothered you, and it bugs me, too. We don't have any samples, so this is >all speculation and design, but I wonder if there is any conceivable possible >way that slits along or under the ribs could have been missed or mangled by >whatever records we have. > Because I think I may have thought of a way it could work. > 1) Gill slits on the head. This requires the gills to be contained in the >skull with a high volume of water passed through them. This would seem to be Emerson's favoured hypothesis. The gills need not be positioned in the skull - around the neck is equally possible, and judging from the artwork available would explain the enlarged neck area (appearing almost as a goitre). > 2) Lungs are problematic underwater. You need to collapse them or something >at depth, they can mess up bouyancy. Even if internal lung tissue can extract >oxygen from water, you still have to suck water in and out of a bag. When DOs >come to the surface, I bet the first thing they have to do before a banzai >charge is stand around with their webbed hands on their knees and upchuck all >that seawater out of their lungs so they can breathe air. Again, Emerson's reports concur with this. Collapsing the lungs seems to be the simplest (but not the only) possible solution to the problem... it would also have certain advantages regarding bouyancy. > No way. One thing to consider (and I'm not saying that the idea holds water.... oh come on! I couldn't resist) is that when we are born, the lungs are filled with amniotic fluid and that doesn't seem to cause too many problems for most babies. > I'd rather every observer misremembered something easily missed when a DO is >on the surface. They have a slit just under the bottom rib on both sides. It >is held tightly closed by a reflex that defaults to tightly squeezed shut >when a DO is killed or rendered unconscious on the surface. > I propose that the hybrid lung begins to develop an internal structure of >gill material in the lung during the surface stage. I think it would look >like a slinky or open weave chinese finger trap growing from the bronchial(?) >passage to the bottom of the lung where it will anchor to the wall as the >flap develops. The structure would allow the free passage of air during the >surface stage, but could be completely ready by the time they take the >plunge. They might cough a lot at first as the lungs get used to the new >stimulus, so the invalid stage could be usually explained as 'consumption'. Interesting idea, and one I hadn't considered. I would suggest a couple of simple tweaks though. You would have (effectively) an elongated bronchus that connects to an opening out of the chest cavity and is held shut by a muscular sphincter when on land. The opening would have to be above the diaphragm, though or the lungs would be unable to function in air (they wouldn't be able to inflate). The spincter would also have to form a very tight seal on the surface (or perhaps not... maybe it could act as an alternate trachea if the windpipe was obstructed - this could come as something of a shock if you tried to strangle an AH). In water, the oxygenated water would have to flow through the mouth, down the trachea and through the gill filaments arranged around the bronchial extension (the puzzle box as you describe it) before exiting from the opening. The lung tissue proper would have to be sealed when underwater though, unless there is an upstream filter to remove particulates from the water (these would damage the alveoli which are quite fragile). This could be done by having muscular flaps at the split from the bronchi to bronchioles to seal the bronchioles (and hence the alveoli). On the transition from sea to land, the opening would simply open to drain the fluid from the tubes as air is inspired for the first breath. (Note that the lungs cannot retain much air when underwater as the air will expand on rising from depth and cause the lungs to explode... not condusive to continued living AFAIK). The problem to my mind is the level of internal (not to mention external) re-arrangement that this hypothesis entails. The gil-filaments in the neck hypothesis outlined in the Emerson report is simpler from a physiological view point. But OTOH, if it worked for the Man From Atlantis then I suppose it's possible. But hang on a moment... perhaps I just dreamt that in the shower? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Mass Loss? On 1 May 2000 AD (the only day of the year with a distress signal named after it) the Glove Cleaner "Andy Robertson" has this to say about the apparent mass loss of Earth: >So > >The Earth is getting lighter? Easy. > >The EndTimes are coming. > >All of this Dark Matter that is animate and ambulant (and if "From Beyond" >is to be trusted a lot of it is ) is leaving. The Earth isn't the only planet with this problem. If it's any encouragement, it seems to be even worse concerning Pluto! Take a look at how size and mass figures for Pluto have dropped, especially over the last few years -- from a body massive enough to cause perturbations in Neptune's orbit, to a world slightly smaller than Earth's Moon! So, if we think we've got problems here on Earth, we can be consoled by the fact that, at this rate, Charon will be orbiting alone up there in a few years, and whatever the Fun Guys have for a government will be holding official subcommittee hearings on "What happened to Yuggoth? Why did our planet evaporate?"... Guess the Fun Guys must have misplaced a decimal point during some of their Dark Matter Reactor experiments...:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "...And, after Pluto has evaporated, we can be sure the President will say it is the fault of the previous administration, Congress will order the Coast Guard to prevent Mi-Go refugees from flooding into the US, Greenpeace will hold the nuclear power industry and fluorocarbons responsible, and MJ-12 will find some way of blaming it on Delta Green!":) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Yuggoth ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Layne > The Earth isn't the only planet with this problem. If it's any > encouragement, it seems to be even worse concerning Pluto! I very much doubt Pluto = Yuggoth. Pluto is a mere fragment of the Kuiper belt, a glorified comet. I favor the Planet X option. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Greetings. Eckhard should watch less TV.... ;> >And then there was this Italian TV show of the late 80s IIRC that I remember as >being called "Io confesso" or something [ Davide?]: In that show people hidden >behind some kind of wall could confess all the bad things they did in their life, >from screwing their sister to performing cunnilingus on a horse or killing >somebody. I guess one of the old Karotechia guys would make a perfect guest for >that show. My godness - your brain looks to me like a sort of inventory-from-hell of all we Italians would rather forget. 'Io Confesso' was a late 80s thing that ran for just one season. The idea, as Eckhard exactly points out, was to get a guy under a pixelated screen and he'd go on in a vocoder-altered voice about his sin - usually the cheap-thrill thing a 10 p.m. audience would like. I'd rather see a former member of fate or Enolsis as a 'Io Confesso' guest than a Karotechia turncoat. Two other Italian TV shows, on the other hand, could be of interest. . Chi l'Ha Visto (Who Saw Him?) One of Italy's longest running prime-time investigation journalism shows. Each week, three or four cases about missing persons are presented - families and friends are interviewed, a reconstruction of the last actions of the disappearing person is shown, photos both straight and digitally manipulated to add aging or makeup are presented. then the audience is invited to phone (the show goes on air live) should they have any info on the case. Some of the cases presented were actually solved thanks to audience intervention, and a number of specials were produced, centering on particularly mysterious cases from the past. Possible applications are obvious - PhenomenX could run something like this. . Strix This one from 1980 is a true freak. The most common rationalizationof the thing is, someone had dosed with LSD the director's board of the state television. The prime-time 'song & comedy', set during an endless bacchanal and structured around Roman Mysterian Cult models, featured a host introducing numbers by cracking a whip, and an audience/chorus of skimply clad and frolicking kids. The show featured full frontal nudity (female), full-tilt orgies, blatant homosexuality, demon worship, hinted incest, various forms of fetishism, drug abuse, paganism and blasphemy. Not to mention some of the worst music ever broadcast. The whole script of the show was in rhiming pentamers, and much of the occult reference authenticity was granted by a consulting 'expert'. Sets and costumes were designed by artists specializing in surreal or pagan art. To this day, the show rests as an embarassing freudian slip on the otherwise highly morigerated palimpsest of our state TV. The only (unsurprisingly) experiment of its kind, it was completely cancelled from the popular memory. In a country in which half of the TV programming is made up by reruns, Strix was never recycled, and according to some insider sources, the original tapes were destroyed/lost/stolen. Now, let's face the fact - any show regularly featuring a young Grace Jones in a leopard bodysuit wielding a bullwhip is worth using as a set-piece in a DG game. As a whole, the thing had a high degree of Shub-Niggurath compliance in its chaotic structure and sexually frenzied attitude. Considering the trend-setting power of television, one wonders what could have happened had the show graduated to a higher share of audience.... Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm