From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: DGML T-Shirt Feeling that Tim's explanation was a bit rushed, and wishing to explain that Eccles (Damien) is not an idiot, I will go further. Nocstar wrote: (-) > >On Mon, 1 May 2000, Dave Farnell wrote: (-) > > > Um, Tim, those links lead to porno... (-) > Damn, all I got was pictures of t-shirts! Here we go- Eccles has a largish personal site at http://arcadia.buseco.monash.edu.au/~eccles/ which has a lot of WoD-related pictures on it. He is also a webmaster for Monash Uni, Melbourne. Since putting up the pictures, he has found various weenies linking directly to them when putting up their half-arsed personal pages, which puts a hell of a load on his server (No, I don't understand why they can't serve the pics themselves either). Hence the anarchic decision to serve "alternative art" to anyone stupid enough to refer the pics from another page. Unfortunately this also catches anyone who reads mail using a web browser. And there you go. ObDG: I might be lying. It may be a clever ruse to hide steganographic messages from the Monash Faculty of Business and Economics. YOU DECIDE. -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 11:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Greetings. Of all things! >Davide Mana who was obviously one of "Stryx"'s major supporters [ one >should add Stryx Lore: 72% to his character sheet ] wrote: I was 13 at the time. Are you surprised the thing was stamped in my brain? Also, I was the only one in school to know what 'Stryx' stood for, which sort of increased my aura as an outsider, while sort of giving me a kind of underground popularity. But I do have a huge amount of TV trivia stored in my brain, just waiting to spring on me during the long, sleepless hours that await for dawn. The golden age of Italian tube happened while I was between 5 and 15. >There might be a connection between this show and the Hastur Mythos as we know it >from COUNTDOWN. Excellent. I did not think about that. Yep, it was probably the first Italian broadcast of Carcosa Television. >> Man, classical Italian cinema is 'Cabiria', not 'Caligula' ;> > >Oh boy, I am glad that I did not mention my first ideas of classical Italian >cinema: > L'insegnante balla...con tutta la classe >or Eckhard! Are you sure you did not serve in the Italian Army? A predilection for Colpo Grosso and this kind of movies is usually a sure sign you were in Infantry. >> Or maybe they resold selections of it as snuff in Bangcock. > >That's a cool idea for any snuff related scenario! PCs investigate after they >hear from the appearance of snuff videos and they find out that it's just cheap >crap produced in Cinécitta to be sold for enormous amounts of cash on the net! Been done - in '8mm', with Nicholas Cage. The scene in which the investigator horrifies in front of a supposedly snuff movie only to notice that the victim is an actress that was already killed in a previously examined movie. >> As I said, it was one of those make-it-or-break-it things - it could have >> deeply influenced Italian TV and, by reflection, society. >> Instead it went belly up. > >You seem to feel sorry about that. LOL! Sorry? I do not know. As a science fiction fan, alternate histories fascinate me. What if the thing had set a trend? What if the success had been such that 'Stryx' had turned into a franchised export? Sure Stryxies of the female persuasion could be better company than their Trekkie counterparts ;> But jokes apart, I certainly retain a sort of weird feeling when I consider that the thing did not go down in flames under the attack of censors and conservatives, but simply faded away. Presented with the most outrageous excesses ever shown on video, the Italian 'typical family' just watched for a while and then changed channel. No momentous decadence of morals, no heroic rallying of the forces of decency. Just total indifference. It's scary, Eckhard! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 12:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Davide Mana schrieb: > Greetings. > > Of all things! > > >Davide Mana who was obviously one of "Stryx"'s major supporters [ one > >should add Stryx Lore: 72% to his character sheet ] wrote: > > I was 13 at the time. > Are you surprised the thing was stamped in my brain? Nope. Just your description was enough to stamp my brain...And I am 28. BTW: When I was about 8 or 9 years of age there was a comedy show on German TV called "Klimbim". Actually this show wasn't funny, but about 95% of every funny number ended in one of the female comedians ending up topless or nude [ All the female comedians were former soft-porn actresses]. Once they did an SF special that was set on a planet where all the women [ and there were many female extras in the background ] wore garments that did not cover their boobs. That kind of stamped my brain. ObDG: TV experiences in your early years seem to be very important for the development of character and interests. Therefore confronting children with certain kind of shows could make them a) better citizens b) mass murderers / serial killers c) people who like boobies. [snip] > But I do have a huge amount of TV trivia stored in my brain, just waiting > to spring on me during the long, sleepless hours that await for dawn. Hey, that's the guy who pretended to be shocked by my knowledge of European TV trivia!!! > The golden age of Italian tube happened while I was between 5 and 15. How do you define "golden age"? The good old days, when there were only public channels, two or three? Or the dawning of private TV? For me the dawning of private TV was the most interesting period in German TV history. This happend around the time when I was 15 or 16, the years 1987, 1988 and following. The new channels showed about everything that was cheap and made good reatings. The result was a splendid combination of tits, ass and violence. Everything the public channels wouldn't show, like cheap American, Asian and [ yes ] Italian movies. Not just B-movies, but rather C-E movies. [snip] > Excellent. > I did not think about that. > Yep, it was probably the first Italian broadcast of Carcosa Television. Carcosa TV. Sounds like a cool name for small but developing private TV station that is said to change its viewers. > > >> Man, classical Italian cinema is 'Cabiria', not 'Caligula' ;> > > > >Oh boy, I am glad that I did not mention my first ideas of classical Italian > >cinema: > > L'insegnante balla...con tutta la classe > >or > > Eckhard! > Are you sure you did not serve in the Italian Army? > A predilection for Colpo Grosso and this kind of movies is usually a sure > sign you were in Infantry. Infantry: Yes. But - I'm sorry - German Army. The explanation is easier: Owned my personal TV at the age of 10. Watched about everything.Used the family holidays to get to know the best of the visited country's TV. Developed a taste for trash. [snip] > As a science fiction fan, alternate histories fascinate me. > What if the thing had set a trend? > What if the success had been such that 'Stryx' had turned into a franchised > export? > Sure Stryxies of the female persuasion could be better company than their > Trekkie counterparts ;> > Doesn't this really cry out to be developed into a short story or novel? Would be something different than the usual "What if Hitler won the war?"-plots. > But jokes apart, I certainly retain a sort of weird feeling when I consider > that the thing did not go down in flames under the attack of censors and > conservatives, but simply faded away. > Presented with the most outrageous excesses ever shown on video, the > Italian 'typical family' just watched for a while and then changed channel. > No momentous decadence of morals, no heroic rallying of the forces of decency. > Just total indifference. I remember that in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"-novels Douglas Adams wrote about some machine or technology to make people ignorant to bad things. It seems that this has already been developed in Italy. > > It's scary, Eckhard! I agree without hesitation. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Hello all, Eckhard wrote: > I remember that in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"-novels > Douglas Adams wrote about some machine or technology to make people > ignorant to bad things. It seems that this has already been developed > in Italy. the famous peril sensitive sunglasses - or similar - the lenses turn totally black the instant you look towards anything that might threaten you. Rob (who also has a lot of tv trivia stuck in his head) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ... On 30 April, 2000 AD, The Man in Black had this to say about submarine operations in waters infested with Deep Ones and Shoggoths and Creatures From the Black Lagoon, Oh, My!: >On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > > > Generally speaking subs operate especially early nuke hunter-killers >like > > Thresher at MUCH lower speed > >[SECTION REDACTED] > > > high speeds are left for short dashes and evasion. > >I don't know about you, but I would rather be on Captain Layne's fast sub >than your cruising one when the Shoggoths and Deep Ones and Whatevers >start oozing and scraping and whatevering on the hull. Thanks (I think) for the vote of confidence! While SSNs do tend to emphasize stealth in their patrol operations, and reserve high speeds for special situations (as any player of Sub Sims knows...), CDR Harvey, the CO of "Thresher", probably felt his path out of Portsmouth had already been sanitized by Navy assets, and most likely took advantage of her submerged speed to transit to the test area at 20 knots or so. This was a test run, after some time in drydock, and the Captain and the tech reps probably intended to take the boat through a variety of maneuvers at a variety of speeds and depths, once on station. And, even had the boat been making only 10 knots or so at the time the Deep Ones intercepted her, it wouldn't have been anything like the typical DO raid, in which they climb up the anchor chain of a moored ship... Has anyone ever settled on just how fast Deep Ones can swim? As someone reminded us, they aren't fish. Their body is adapted to the water, but not as much so as even a sea lion, much less a dolphin. Sustained swimming speed, even given their webbed digits, might not be that much greater than that of a SCUBA diver. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Abel Lindburg [abel_123@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Hmmm Teach the Tcho-Tcho HTML? Www.WhatEatingYou.Com? Abel "How to serve man" Lindburg ----- Original Message ----- From: Eckhard Huelshoff To: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:43 AM Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Davide Mana who was obviously one of "Stryx"'s major supporters [ one should add Stryx Lore: 72% to his character sheet ] wrote: > Greetings. [snip] > Jokes apart - I once attended a sociology lecture in which it was explained > how the Brazilian government supported soap-operas as these were giving teh > population a new, more - sorry - 'first world' outlook. > In particular, the depiction of independent women and of well-to-do > families with no more than two children were considered important points to > get through to the population. > Apparently something similar is being attempted in India. Ironically it's just the other way round in Germany. Conservative politicians criticise soap-operas because of an outlook considered too liberal: Nearly every soap has a gay or lesbian couple, people change their partners pretty often, and so on. Speaking of India: There's a debate going on in Germany about wether one should introduce something like the American Green Card. The reason is that there aren't enough well-trained computer experts in Germany. Then somebody came up with the information that India has a well developed software industry and the idea that it might help to "import" Indian experts. >From an objective point of view imigration of good people is a good thing. But hey, there will be regional elections in one of our states and election time is not the time to be objective. Therefore the conservative party CDU came up with the pretty stupid slogan "Kinder statt Inder" [ Children instead of Indians ]. After this type of campaign was called racist and offensive, they chose another "softer" way. Now the slogan is used by the far right party that calls itself "Republikaner". ObDG: What if the Tcho-Tcho people develop special skills that are useful for some nation's industry or economy and this country starts a huge immigration program? [snip] > As for 'Stryx' (I mispelled it on the previous post).... [snip] > A variety show, with stand-up 'comedians', ballet and singers, a few guests > (including, IIRC, Brian Ferry on one night). > It was 'light entertainment', but the show structure was somewhat loose - > basically there was this big bad party going on all over the soundstage, > with lots of separate 'numbers' running at the same time; the camera roamed > here and there, following the host as he opened up his way through the > crowd with his whip and led the audience to this or that performance - be > it a comic routine, some kind of ballet, a guest singing his latest single > or some short sit-com like set-pieces. > Weird, very experimental. There might be a connection between this show and the Hastur Mythos as we know it from COUNTDOWN. [snip] > The list includes songwriter Tony Renis - currently a big bucks musical > producer in the US (does the name Bocelli ring a bell?) - dressed as the > Black Man and reading cues from a thick leatherbound volume held by a > teenager in filmsy chiton. DRESSED AS A MAN IN BLACK? USING LEATHERBOUND TOMES? MOLESTING TEENAGERS? Heaven, finally we know what the MiB did as a part-time job!!! [snip] > > >Sounds like they used many elements from classical Italian cinema ==> > Caligula > > 'Classical'? > Man, classical Italian cinema is 'Cabiria', not 'Caligula' ;> Oh boy, I am glad that I did not mention my first ideas of classical Italian cinema: L'insegnante balla...con tutta la classe or L'insegnante va in collegio [snip] > >Now these are good scenario seeds: Stolen by whom? > > According to a friend of mine, by some RAI exec that looped the tape and > used it as 'inspiration' while [CENSORED] away in his lonely nights. I thought that was what happened to the films that really showed what happened on Dallas' Elm Street? > > Or maybe they resold selections of it as snuff in Bangcock. That's a cool idea for any snuff related scenario! PCs investigate after they hear from the appearance of snuff videos and they find out that it's just cheap crap produced in Cinécitta to be sold for enormous amounts of cash on the net! [snip] > And yet - production values were very high - it was (IIRC) one of the first > tv shows to be shot in Cinecittà, using some of the soundstages predilected > by Fellini and a lot of the technical talent was first class plus. I have to admit that a lot of what you described of this show kind of reminded me of Fellini's Roma... > As I said, it was one of those make-it-or-break-it things - it could have > deeply influenced Italian TV and, by reflection, society. > Instead it went belly up. You seem to feel sorry about that. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jnielsen@forbin.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Date: Tue, 2 May 100 18:46:26 GMT Eckhard wrote: > I remember that in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"- novels > Douglas Adams wrote about some machine or technology to make people > ignorant to bad things. It seems that this has already been developed > in Italy. Don't forget the principle behind the S.E.P. (Somebody Else's Problem) tech used to hide things like the "BistroMath". The idea was to make the object so absurd or disruptive to one's point of view that it took very little energy to get people to ignore it totally. ObDG: Does such an effect help explain why things such as the recently covered "Uganda Death Cult" go unnoticed until things get tragic? Instead of trying to hide cult actions, what about actively seeking coverage by such media as the "Weekly World News" or "Hard Copy"? Would making it absurd cause people (at least those that "matter")to ignore it? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jnielsen@forbin.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Date: Tue, 2 May 100 18:47:10 GMT Eckhard wrote: > I remember that in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"- novels > Douglas Adams wrote about some machine or technology to make people > ignorant to bad things. It seems that this has already been developed > in Italy. Don't forget the principle behind the S.E.P. (Somebody Else's Problem) tech used to hide things like the "BistroMath". The idea was to make the object so absurd or disruptive to one's point of view that it took very little energy to get people to ignore it totally. ObDG: Does such an effect help explain why things such as the recently covered "Uganda Death Cult" go unnoticed until things get tragic? Instead of trying to hide cult actions, what about actively seeking coverage by such media as the "Weekly World News" or "Hard Copy"? Would making it absurd cause people (at least those that "matter")to ignore it? -bcnu- -THEM- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 1:48 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness Greetings again. This thing is getting close to the dreaded OT territory. Let's see if something can be salvaged. >Carcosa TV. Sounds like a cool name for small but developing private TV station >that is said to change its viewers. I'd prefer Yith-TV.... A bit second hand, 'tho. Like the 'My goodness, I'm trapped in a TV show' concept - TDTD. The question is - what possible Mythos uses can be devised for television that have not already been done to death by TV itself? A good angle could be the Dreamland connection - what happens in the Dreamlands when the vast majority of the dreamers share such a wide slice of cultural background? Do we see a proliferation of cheap TV clichés? Sit-com regions of the dreamlands where everything happens according to a given formula, day after day, and that include spectral laughter in the background? Hmmm, good title for a Dreamland short, 'Spectral Laughter'. Incidentally - good reading matter: 'Amnesia Moon', by Johnathan Lethem. Let's say anyone interested in Dreamlands should check it out. Confused at times but good. Other options? An Outlook angle, obviously. Telepreachers have been done to death. In UltraViolet vampires do not read on TV screens. C'mon, there must be something original.... >> As a science fiction fan, alternate histories fascinate me. >> What if the thing had set a trend? [self-snippage] >Doesn't this really cry out to be developed into a short story or novel? Would be >something different than the usual "What if Hitler won the war?"-plots. Already done, I fear - a story by Kim Newman, called 'The Pierce-Arrow Stalled And....'. Highly recommended, like most Newman stuff. It describes the evolution of a world in which no Hais Code was ever enabled, and Hollywood becomes the kingdom of sleaze. Like yours truly, Newman thinks censorship actually increases artistic creativity. "GARBO FUCKS! Ninotchka (1939)" Great alternate history, a real must-read for SF and movie fans. It can be found in Newman's 'Famous Monsters' anthology (ISBN 0-671-85300-7), along with many other gems (The Big Fish featuring, possibly, PISCES), or online (IIRC) at Infinity Plus - there's a link in the Freebies section of the Cave. So, maybe this will produce more on-topic posts. In any case, have a nice evening (or whatever your local time-zone is)! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:04 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Bring me the head of the Okanagan Lake monste In a message dated 00-05-02 05:41:33 EDT, you write: << The URL I included didn't appear to be working after my initial post - sometimes they expire. How do you feel about my posting the text of the article in the body of the post? MiB seemed a little pissed that I had done so in my first post to this ML, so I wasn't sure what to do this time. >> We might have to put that to a vote. I don't mind, usually. I figure I would have grabbed it from the website, so why not have it delivered? But I'm not running a mail list, and my downloading doesn't cause me much distress. I figure plain text doesn't make a message that much bigger. I would, however, bracket the text with my additions rather than inserting them in the body ( we will pause as the obvious comments exhaust themselves. there) , it makes it easier to read and cut&paste. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jnielsen@forbin.com Sent: Friday, July 10, 2893 5:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Oops! My humble apologies for wasting all the bandwidth with my double-post faux-pas. I was just taking my ISP's Web-based e-mail for a spin (DGML at work! I'm bound to get canned for this) and am still getting used to the controls. -bcnu- -THEM- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:48 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Yuggoth ----- Original Message ----- From: Mused > >Are you saying the Mi-Go are responsible for Ghidrah? > > No, the opposite. Mi-Go are the fleas of Ghidrah > No, I think Yuggoth is a tenth planet. Probably a big one, well off the elliptic. Probably not formed as part of the solar system, but an independent condensation of gas which drifted over here recently. (Last billion years or so). It is quite possible that there are many planetary sized bodies in near-solar space, gravitationally bound to the Sun but not part of the system proper. We'd know nothing about them if they were three or four times as far away as Neptune, but they could be stable against stellar perturbation at up to ten times that distance. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jnielsen@forbin.com Sent: Friday, July 10, 2893 5:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: I looks like someone wants to know who's been dreaming of the big "C". Is Delta Green preping for an once a year spring cleaning? http://live.altavista.com/scripts/editorial.dll?efi=940&ei=1 747009&ern=y The school might be a good resource for Keepers to use for introducing the Dreamlands into a campagin. -bcnu- -THEM- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Bu-bye, and thanks for all the.....whatever In a message dated 00-05-02 06:28:25 EDT, you write: << I might have aded a leopard on a leash, considering my current bulk, but anyway I'm pretty sure they'll remember me for a while. >> Can I call you Meyer? OT like a mofo, unless you want to use it yourself: Best and most satisfying departure from a sucky job. The 80s. I'm a Field Engineer. I work out of car and apartment. I wear a pager 24/7 and I do not know in the morning where I will be at 5:00pm. The FedEx gals know me well, I have several complete computer systems in my apartment and use decoratively covered shipping boxes as end tables and coffee tables. I move fast and strike deep. OK, I drive long distances and carry a lot of parts in my car. Since my area is all of Southern California except San Diego most of the time and backup for New Mexico, Nevada and Arizona; it doesn't really matter where I live. So I'm living in Fullerton which is a good 40 miles away from the office in Long Beach. But mileage means nothing in So Cal, what is important is that it is no less than 90 minutes away on a good day with no accidents. I had been recruited by a customer. I had also done the interviews and signed the contracts and shaken the hands. I would be starting in a little over 2 weeks. At a *substantial* raise in pay. So I get a page telling me to call and yada yada, the new supervisor for the region will be in Long Beach tomorrow at 8 and wants to talk at me. Fine, I think. I'll give him notice face-to-face, all friendly-like. Well, this fine example of Merkin management didn't like me being out and about and not properly under his thumb. Henceforth, I would report to the Long Beach office every morning at 8, and would maintain my business office there. So I say 'Great, I'll haul in all the parts from the apartment and...." And another thing. We don't have room here for all those parts so you will keep them at your place. Further, you will yadayadayadayadayadayadayadayadayada....ad infiyada. I let him whip himself into a totalitarian frenzy as he described all of the myriad ways I would be checking in and helping around the office with other contracts and being punctual and and and and So I say "Let me parse this. You want me to come here in the morning, 90 minutes one way, missing the FedEx pickup and drop off at my place. Then I drive back to Fullerton, 90 minutes, to pick up the parts to fix the problem in Riverside, come back to Long Beach to get another job after dropping off the bad parts at the FedEx office before they close. That about sum it up?" "Yes. Further, I want to see a haircut and ...." "By the way. I just got hired by one of your customers because they want out of your outrageous contract, they are offering me more money than you make to start. Their lawyer looked over my contract with you and it's not a problem. The office they showed me was larger than yours as well. I'll be starting in two weeks, so you can take this as notice. Also, you owe me three weeks of vacation. I cannot think of any reason to stay here. Can you?" As he gulped and sputtered, I got up and mentioned that I wouldn't need any parts on my vacation, so I would get a U-Haul on the company credit card and haul all of it down to his office. I sure hoped I wouldn't throw my back out what with hauling those boxes heavier than OSHA allowed someone in my classification to lift. You know, one of those debilitating back injuries that don't show up on X-rays? I've been a little tense lately what with all the work-related STRESS and all. Any questions? I didn't think so. Have a nice life. I know, I know. I was blessed with a special moment. I am sooooo glad I went for the gusto. I will treasure that just-got-told-the-prostitute-is-a-man look from Cops on his face to my dying day. Mark McFadden "We're all in this together" Harry Tuttle From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 3:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness In a message dated 00-05-02 14:56:23 EDT, you write: << A good angle could be the Dreamland connection - what happens in the Dreamlands when the vast majority of the dreamers share such a wide slice of cultural background? Do we see a proliferation of cheap TV clichés? >> It spontaneously generates over Lankhmar and now calls itself LA. You don't see cheap TV clichés so much as the weird physics and cause-and-effect of movie scripting. An Star or Hero (who, incidentally, will not be a Dreamer but a local) can do things like run through machine gun fire and only catch clean flesh wounds that pass right through and don't interfere with their deadly one-handed handgun accuracy. A Hero can actually deliver a punch powerful enough to lift a full-grown man and send him sliding the length of a bar. The blow will not cause damage to the hand or decapitate the recipient. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 3:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones ----- Original Message ----- From: William Timmins > Major assumption is that the DO have very controlled metabolisms. Yes, > waterflow of this sort would really screw with core body temperatures. They might have a counterflow heat-exchanger arrangement like sharks and many other active fish have evolved. They could stay a bit hotter than the water, though nowhere near human body temperature. Hmmmm In our consideration of DO amphibian characteristics we have not thought much about body temperature. If they are erect and bipedal on land they would need a fast metabolism. The cold blooded creatures on the land today can not output enough energy to run or walk fast (except for a short sprint). So, when the DO came out of _cold_ water, at least, they would need to warm up. This would require intense shivering for half an hour or so, or something like brown fat Normally I would expect a DO coming out of the deep sea to be slow and sluggish until it could warm up - they would crawl out of the wind, hunch over and shiver for a while until they got a high enough temperature to stand up. But we have many reports of them _not_ acting like this, but apparently being active on land as soon as they got out of water. What do they do? ---- **** ---- Possibly they could start air-breathing while still in water but swimming on the surface? This would allow them 1) to expell fluid from their gill/lungs 2) To boost their energy output abd core body temperature to a level where they can move about quickly on land. And to do both while still "concealed" in the water except for their heads. This suggests that DO surfacing from _deep_ dives would require a fairly long time - say half an hour - to adapt their metabolism for the surface and for air-breathing. If they thought themselves safe, they might come ashore - perhaps into a building, if we are talking about somewhere like Innsmouth. If not, they would stay in the shallows, air-breathing but mostly submerged. This would require longer because the water would conduct heat away. Interesting theory. Can field agents research it? If confirmed, might it be tactically useful? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 3:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ... ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Layne > Has anyone ever settled on just how fast Deep Ones can swim? As > someone reminded us, they aren't fish. Their body is adapted to the water, > but not as much so as even a sea lion, much less a dolphin. Sustained > swimming speed, even given their webbed digits, might not be that much > greater than that of a SCUBA diver. > Given their low metabolic rate, it could be even slower. Do they swim "doggy-paddle" or do they use efficient up-and-down spinal undulations? Autopsy note: if the latter, their legs might be capable of bending forward at the knee by 5-10 degrees. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 3:51 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Bu-bye, and thanks for all the.....whatever Heaven! How can you this to us!! When I read your "DG: Bu-bye, and...." I thought you would leave us. I had to down a HUGE glass of pastis before I dared to read your post. And then you "only" share some special moments of your life with us. LizardRoi@aol.com schrieb: [snip] > > The 80s. I'm a Field Engineer. I work out of car and apartment. The 80s? And you already worked? Hell! How old are you, reptilian friend!?! [snip] > > "Yes. Further, I want to see a haircut and ...." Let me put this straight: This was the 80s and you were asked to get a haircut? Probably since you still wore your hair in the style of 1969!?! Hell. JUST OLD ARE YOU? [snip] > Their lawyer looked over my contract with you and it's not a problem. Lawyers. Isn't it good that we do exist!?! And since I am very relieved that your post was no good-bye-post I will try to get your posting at least A BIT on topic: The players investigate a a very cruel murder case. They check out his PC and him enlisted to one of those strange mailing lists. And his final mail to list before his death described how he finally quit his job. Example from this mail: "...And then I told this bugger to fuck off and that I would not continue to harrass normal and harmless citizens. And then I told this bastard of ex-boss, he is called Lepus by the way, that the only good thing about him was that he kind of looks like Tommy Lee Jones..." ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James Holloway [j_holloway26@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 4:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones >Possibly they could start air-breathing while still in water but swimming >on >the surface? > >This would allow them 1) to expell fluid from their gill/lungs 2) To >boost their energy output abd core body temperature to a level where they >can move about quickly on land. And to do both while still "concealed" in >the water except for their heads. > >This suggests that DO surfacing from _deep_ dives would require a fairly >long time - say half an hour - to adapt their metabolism for the surface >and for air-breathing. > >If they thought themselves safe, they might come ashore - perhaps into a >building, if we are talking about somewhere like Innsmouth. > >If not, they would stay in the shallows, air-breathing but mostly >submerged. >This would require longer because the water would conduct heat away. > >Interesting theory. Can field agents research it? If confirmed, might it >be tactically useful? > Confirmed. Reports from Coast Guard units taking part in Project COVENANT report AH reinforcements moving from Devil's Reef to Innsmouth swimming on the surface. Since AH units approaching shore came under heavy fire from the Coast Guard, we must assume that something prevented them from submerging for any length of time. -- James Holloway "Okay, and there's nothing in between. It's either grain alcohol in back alleys or a happy world of rodents and feetie pyjamas." "Yes." "I mean, why is that so hard to accept?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew John Farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 4:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: That Talkshow Madness davide mana wrote :- > My godness - your brain looks to me like a sort of inventory-from-hell of > all we Italians would rather forget. > 'Io Confesso' was a late 80s thing that ran for just one season. > The idea, as Eckhard exactly points out, was to get a guy under a pixelated > screen and he'd go on in a vocoder-altered voice about his sin - usually > the cheap-thrill thing a 10 p.m. audience would like. > looks like a watered down prototype of a russian tv show - "the man in the mask" which featured all manner of people including murderers and child pimps talking about thier sins on a set , a parody of mastermind . the hero , ( thier term for guests ) , wears a choice of mask / hood and has thier voice disguised . the show is pre recoreded in secret infront of a locked in audience and all the gueests arer garanteed total anominity , so the fate , karotechia , or any other sicko would feel free to spill thier guts - evading punishment from thier former masters after wards might be harder i first saw this in bizarre magazine ( nov 98 )thier archives at www.bizarremag.com arnt complete but ihavnt had time to look yet . and cant find any other link , sorry . yours - andy . From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 4:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones ----- Original Message ----- From: James Holloway To: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:19 PM Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones > > >Possibly they could start air-breathing while still in water but swimming > >on > >the surface? > > > > > > Confirmed. Reports from Coast Guard units taking part in Project COVENANT > report AH reinforcements moving from Devil's Reef to Innsmouth swimming on > the surface. Since AH units approaching shore came under heavy fire from the > Coast Guard, we must assume that something prevented them from submerging > for any length of time. > Interesting: they wouldn't be _absolutely_ prevented from shutting off their air-breathing and diving again: but they intended ultimately to stay on the surface and fight, so they were forced to spend some time "heating up" even while under fire . . . . Of course they could swim and "heat up" at the same time, much as you could keep yourself warm in a snowstorm by jogging. There is probably a complex trade-off here. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 4:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Switzerland during WWII Good Evening. Just saw a documentary that discussed the question why Switzerland was not occupied by German Forces during WWII. One of the official explanations is their neutrality. Another well-loved explanation of German historians was that Switzerland was declared as un-conquerable by German military intelligence. This theory has been proven as wrong. Obviously German military intelligence already discovered in the mid-30s that Switzerland was not as well defended as the Swiss even claim today. But: These documents in which every square inch and every single military unit of Switzerland was described and evaluated by Germany's military intelligence were hidden away by the agency's chief of staff: Herr Canaris. To get this clear: Switzerland, a rich country with a direct border to Germany had been proven to be easily conquerable and was not attacked just because one men did hide these documents!!! ObDG: Why did Herr Canaris hide these documents? Why did he feel obliged to save the Swiss from being conquered by the Wehrmacht? Did he do this to protect something in Switzerland from Karotechia's grip? Wondering: ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ... In a message dated 00-05-02 16:53:43 EDT, you write: << Given their low metabolic rate, it could be even slower. Do they swim "doggy-paddle" or do they use efficient up-and-down spinal undulations? Autopsy note: if the latter, their legs might be capable of bending forward at the knee by 5-10 degrees. >> Don't forget the frog kick and the eggbeater scull-kick that water-polo players use. Or used last time I looked. I favor these modes because they don't require hands, which would be busy with tool use. Also, perhaps they can restrict blood flow to the skin, allowing them to conserve core heat. I like the stuff about prepping for surface activity. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James Holloway [j_holloway26@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Inside the Deep Ones >Interesting: they wouldn't be _absolutely_ prevented from shutting off >their air-breathing and diving again: but they intended ultimately to stay >on the surface and fight, so they were forced to spend some time "heating >up" even while under fire . . . . > Some possible explanations for their behavior: 1) The shift from gill-breathing to air-breathing takes a while - while in "air breather" mode, AH can't dive with their usual facility. Unlikely, but I just thought I'd mention it. I'm pretty sure we have evidence of AH jumping into the water and heading right for the bottom. 2) Something was _calling_ them from Innsmouth. Something they couldn't ignore, not even at the expense of casualties. We know they are very sensitive to psychic influences. 3) They were swimming low to the water, in choppy sea, in the dark. They took the risk of taking casualties as a trade-off for speed in defending their temple, their tomes, and their priests. If they had submerged while being fired on and gone back to "cold running," they would have had to spend the time "shivering" on the beach - time in which the Order and their sacred artifacts would have come into greater danger. Now... I'm not sure if the AH assault on the Coast Guard didn't come while the attention of the sailors was being distracted by firing on the reinforcements. I'd have to look it up. >Of course they could swim and "heat up" at the same time, much as you could >keep yourself warm in a snowstorm by jogging. There is probably a complex >trade-off here. > And I'm not sure we'll ever fully understand it. But if it helps establish parameters for dealing with these things, helps us learn some of their weaknesses, then it's a fruitful line of inquiry. The AH are such a refreshing foe: they are "only" intelligent, numerous, stronger and more resilient than humans, and possibly magic-using. Oh, and much, much faster in water. -- James Holloway "Okay, and there's nothing in between. It's either grain alcohol in back alleys or a happy world of rodents and feetie pyjamas." "Yes." "I mean, why is that so hard to accept?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (long) (was Re: DG: Useful Resources for Deep One Society ... Folks, here is the other part of the post I was working on when I somehow sent it by trying to scroll down in my saved draft... I've been unable to find any sites with data on DO swimming speeds... (I guess we'll have to take a few of them alive, drop them in a tank at Marineland, and time them?) However, I have found a few online resources that might be useful for RIPTIDE-related investigations... Stats, photo, DANFS (Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships) listing, and a radiological report for "Thresher" are on the Subnet site at: http://www.subnet.com/FLEET/ssn593.htm A page on the class, with photos, and a link to a list of the 129 personnel lost in the sinking, is at: http://www.sealion.com/ssn/594/594_class.html More coverage of the class is at the "Warships" site (http://www.warships1.com/USssn593_Thresher.htm) and on the FAS website at http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/shipssn-594.htm. The FAS site also includes some basic info on submarines and submarine ops, plus links to some interesting documents such as (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/nstm/594v0r1.pdf) a PDF version of the "Salvage -- Submarine Safety Escape & Rescue Devices" section of a "Naval Ships Technical Manual", giving information on procedures followed in event of abandon ship by McCann Rescue Chamber (a type of diving bell -- a slightly modernized version of the bell that brought the survivors up from the "Squalus" in the 30s), by DSRV (Deep Submergence Rescue Vessel, which wasn't available in 1963 -- it was, in fact, the sinking of the "Thresher" which prompted development of the DSRV), and by personal breather unit... This PDF file also includes data on the escape chamber (an underwater "airlock" built into the sub) used for emergency escape as well as for diver lock-out! (I wonder how well these escape chamber hatches could be secured from the inside? Not that it would really be that easy for Deep One combat swimmers to simply swim up and let themselves inside to wreak havoc while the vessel is in motion... And the list's conclusions about DO speed and acclimation for dry-land operations would seem to make things somewhat more difficult for a quick commando raid!) A rather tastefully done USS "Thresher" tribute by a sailor who lost his buddy in the sinking is at: http://www.infomagic.net/~grog/Tribute.htm An article from the June 1994 Occupational Safety Observer ("A History Lesson: The Loss of USS Thresher") at http://www.disastercity.com/thresher/index.htm summarizes the official "probable cause" of the sinking (the broken pipe), and some of the secondary factors that compounded the problem. (No Deep Ones, of course, are mentioned...) There was a website once which had the proceedings of the official Navy Board of Inquiry into the loss of the boat, but that one seems to have been taken down now... The same is unfortunately true for a site which had an interior diagram of the "Thresher". However, IIRC, the insides of this class are similar to those of the later "Sturgeon" class SSN, which was developed from the "Thresher"/"Permit" class, and a "Sturgeon" diagram (labeled as "Piranha" class!) is still at author Michael DiMercurio's site (http://www.ussdevilfish.com). I wonder if the Deep Ones really decided it was too expensive to sink the land-dwellers' subs after RIPTIDE? (The Lizard King's reported interview with one of their representatives seems to imply this was the case -- allegedly, their leaders attempted to make the bombing the cause of all-out warfare, but their decision was not supported by the populace at large...) :) Besides the "Scorpion", a few other subs (Russian and Israeli) were lost in a relatively short time-frame in the late 1960s. Admittedly, submariners have a dangerous job, and we can lose subs without the help of the Deep Ones, or giant squids, or Meg the Prehistoric Shark, but it still looks suspiscious! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:51 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pluto The problem is that PLuto repeatedly demonstrates that he understands the content of Mickey's speech as well as intent. He is intelligent. Maybe he is a mutant of some kind. The mutants, born without developed vocal cords opr thumbs are forced into servitude and are not allowed to wear clothes. HAY-ZEUS, is Walt Disney's world evil or what? -----Original Message----- of Pluto has plagued me for years. > I mean, he's a dog, right? So how come he can't drive a car or talk like > Goofy? What is he, some kind of Goof-monkey? A proto-Goofy? Goofepanthecus? > Man that bugs me. > > Mark McFadden > He's probably the missing link between regular dogs and Goofy. That is, if Goofy is a dog. Is he? And aren't nearly all the extras in the comics painted as kind of dog? Now this bugs me too. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pluto In a message dated 5/2/00 6:36:31 PM Central Daylight Time, mused@idirect.com writes: << He's probably the missing link between regular dogs and Goofy. That is, if Goofy is a dog. Is he? And aren't nearly all the extras in the comics painted as kind of dog? Now this bugs me too. ECKHARD >> Definitely a dog as Clarabelle was a cow and Harry was a horse. Of course I always thought Warner Brothers cartoons were far more surreal and also funnier - Wiley Coyote is the paragon of evil cult leaders, don't you think? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RIPTIDE (typos)... On 02 May, 2000 AD, "Michael Layne" discovered a couple of typos in his previous post: > A page on the class, with photos, and a link to a list of the 129 >personnel lost in the sinking, is at: >http://www.sealion.com/ssn/594/594_class.html This should be: http://www.sealion.com/ssn/594class/594_class.html >http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/shipssn-594.htm. And this one should be: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/ssn-594.htm Hopefully, I got them right, this time! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:08 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Bu-bye, and thanks for all the.....whatever In a message dated 00-05-02 16:54:27 EDT, you write: << The 80s? And you already worked? Hell! How old are you, reptilian friend!?! [snip] >> Uh, I was born in '56. Which makes me the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything, plus one. A prime number, if I do say so myself. << Let me put this straight: This was the 80s and you were asked to get a haircut? Probably since you still wore your hair in the style of 1969!?! Hell. JUST OLD ARE YOU? >> Damn dude, you're gonna give me a complex. I think what he despised the most was the fact that I just let it grow and kept it out of the way with a ponytail. He just couldn't fathom not devoting a few hours a day to dress and body worship. I tried to explain to him that despite the teachings of the sacred Watson in the 50s, modern people have come to despise and distrust glad-handing, dressed-for-success salesmen with a diagnostics floppy appearing at their place of business to pack up a PC and return it unfixed 3 months later. Due to experience and the subtle programming of expectations from the media; appearing with long hair, a beard, in glasses with an eclectic disregard for the finer points of sartorial splendor made the users and customers happy to see me since I was obviously the guy who could actually fix the problem the suit-dweebs had exacerbated or ignored on their way to something better. It's all showbiz and marketing savvy with an eye to the bottom line. Since he was congenitally incapable of nurturing an unexpected thought, this flew like a lead dodo. I didn't have the heart to explain to him that I can tie more kinds of trendy tie knots than he could imagine, can look natural and even imposing in a wide range of costumes from various eras, own my own tux with antique accessories, spend the money on good shoes (I know that tell, pissant) and, in short, have the qualifications to ignore fashion. Fashion is this month, style is eternal. ObDG: Check out the subtle nuances of costume on The X-Files. Mulder has designer suits, but not trendy or expensive ones. Think Geoffrey Beane rather than Armani. Fit is not exact = off the rack. He believes in comfort, check the gap around his collar and at the wrists. Stylish though not fashionable, like his haircut. Remember, this is a guy who went to (Oxford? Cambridge? Anyhow, some Brit aristo farm) so he knows how to touch all the bases without making a production number out of it. Note that Skinner is habitually seen in shirt sleeves, and sometimes rolled-up sleeves. Sort of like the advertised image of Peter Norton. Most silverbacks like to be wearing their suit and looking ever so imposing for visitors, but Skinner seems to take his jacket off in the morning and put it back on to go home. But since he is the boss, he doesn't loosen his tie or undo the top button. Looks like an FBI tiebar, maybe a military\Vietnam vet one. No chain or tack for Skinner. The Estrogen Brigade celebrated when they found he wears briefs instead of boxers. Shit, I could have told them that. Note: some police officers (including plain clothes) wear a clip-on tie, since they are reluctant to provide a convenient handle for a perp to grab. Mark McFadden Dressed for excess From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pluto In a message dated 00-05-02 19:43:34 EDT, you write: << Definitely a dog as Clarabelle was a cow and Harry was a horse. Of course I always thought Warner Brothers cartoons were far more surreal and also funnier - Wiley Coyote is the paragon of evil cult leaders, don't you think? >> Yes, but the Warner Brothers and their sister, Dot, also exhibit that odd monkey? \ dog? \what the? characteristics of Goofy and many of the other denizens of the Disney universe. Odd semi-floppy ears. Apparently covered in short black fur except around the face. Can't tell much about the state of their hands as they all wear white gloves. Three fingers and an opposable thumb. Don't seem to require pants. Spooky. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:23 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pluto I say not. Wiley represent the desire to control one's environment. He represents man's folly. Bugs is chaos incarnate, but a good chaos (ie. Freedom and justice) Daffy represents pure chaos The true mythos is represented by Tweety. Oblivious, indestructible, no matter how certain you are that you will win, the rules change. Elmer is human obliviousness. Yosemite Sam makes a good cult leader -----Original Message----- From: Popeyesays@aol.com To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:48 PM Subject: Re: DG: Pluto >In a message dated 5/2/00 6:36:31 PM Central Daylight Time, mused@idirect.com >writes: > ><< > He's probably the missing link between regular dogs and Goofy. That is, if > Goofy > is a dog. Is he? And aren't nearly all the extras in the comics painted as > kind > of dog? > > Now this bugs me too. > ECKHARD > > >> > >Definitely a dog as Clarabelle was a cow and Harry was a horse. Of course I >always thought Warner Brothers cartoons were far more surreal and also >funnier - Wiley Coyote is the paragon of evil cult leaders, don't you think? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 9:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Bring me the head of the Okanagan Lake monste [I sent this some time back, but it never showed up on the list AFAIK--sorry if it went out twice]: On Tue, 2 May 2000 05:30:59 -0400 "Amanda A. Cronk" wrote: >>How do you feel about my posting the text of the >>article in the body of the post? MiB seemed a little pissed that I had done >>so in my first post to this ML, so I wasn't sure what to do this time. Depends on the length and how interesting it is. Usually best to just post an excerpt of the most DG-intriguing stuff. Also, if it's something that is common knowledge/current big news (like the Ugandan thing), there is no need to post an article as anyone can look it up the essential news on any number of sources (online or otherwise)--the particular article (Reuters or AP or whatever) is not really important. But if there is some bit that really stands out in a particular article (such as the mention of the Yellow Sign in a Ugandan Cult Massacre church), then posting that bit should be fine. Indeed, required! Posting long articles should only be done if a)there is no other choice and b)if you really think it is interesting enough to justify cluttering up the Archives with. But, you know, we really are spending way too much time on this kind of thing lately. Let's stop talking and get the gol-durned FAQ written! Tell you what: In my capacity as anal English teacher par excellance, I volunteer to be the FAQ Grammarian. I'll handle typo-editing, etc. Dave "Chaucerwatch" Farnell From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Austin Chamberlain [austin@light.mth.uct.ac.za] Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 3:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: PARADISE ISLAND On Sun, Apr 30, 2000 at 05:37:12PM -0400, The Man in Black wrote: > On 29 Apr 2000, Dave Farnell wrote: > > What caught my eye was Dr. Axel Wenner-Gren and his Shangri-La resort > (purchased in 1939) and Huntington Hartford who bought him out in 1940 and > completed the good Dr.'s Versailles Gardens. > > The NWI/Karotechia part comes with the current owners - the South African > Sun International Resort development firm. SUN = AZATHOTH! And South > Africans are always evil, if those guys in Lethal Weapon 2 and our .ZA > members on this list are any evidence. > An interesting point is that the owner of the Sun International consortium is called Sol Kerzner (Sol = sun, of course). And he's been accused of all sorts of bribery, graft, corruption, etc, with the apartheid and the new governments. Yours, An Eeeevil .ZA person -- These hands!! I can't get them off my wrists!! Oh, God!! - Happy Noodle Boy