From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nocstar [shepherd@infocom.com] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 12:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Doing the FAQ Thing At 07:10 PM 5/5/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Greetings. >What do you guys think? > > >Davide Mana >Torino, Italy >doctor.dee@libero.it >The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm Excellent idea, Davide, and thanks for embracing the challenge. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 1:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Doing the FAQ Thing In a message dated 5/5/00 1:00:10 PM Central Daylight Time, shepherd@infocom.com writes: << Excellent idea, Davide, and thanks for embracing the challenge. >> See. The camel still squawks so you can get another bag ready to load on top. My irony sub-routine is so deeply embedded in my system that it can not be disengaged. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 1:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Doing the FAQ Thing Nocstar schrieb: > At 07:10 PM 5/5/2000 +0200, Davide wrote: > >Greetings. > > > > >What do you guys think? [ snip] > Excellent idea, Davide, and thanks for embracing the challenge. An we embrace you for taking the challenge ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Womack [jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 1:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Doing the FAQ Thing Davide "I can say 'subaqueous earthquake' with a straight face" Mana wrote: > [...] I'm thinking about breaking the FAQ in two main sub- > sections. The first, dealing with the basics, netiquette > and 'how to survive on DGML', and a second dealing with the > real most frequently asked questions that do not have to do > with the lists administration, like > > . how do I start a campaign > . is this Necronomicon thing a real book > > etcetera. > > This way, we'll be able to post the admin. chapters to new > subscribers, so they can ruminate them and be duly impressed. > That first half of the faq will also include a pointer to the > second half's house on the net. > > What do you guys think? Sounds like an ideal solution (of course, we all know how well ideal solutions translate into real-world applications...). After all, we really are talking about two separate issues here--FAQs, frequently asked questions focusing on basic survival and good list citizenship (e.g., Who is this Man In Black, and why did he just tear me a new one?), and FDTs, frequently discussed topics (subjects that, if you're going to reintroduce them, you damn well better have something new, original, and provocative to say; TDTDs are obviously a terminal subset of this category). The former is very much a meta-list issue, and isn't even entirely specific to this list, as much of it is simple netiquette that is widely applicable to any number of e-mail discussion lists. The latter is the private game preserve (pardon the pun) of the DGML, our raison-d'etre. Violate the latter, and you've betrayed yourself as a newbie to this list. Violate the former, and you've branded yourself as a newbie to the Internet in general (or at least as somebody who is so self-important as to not give a damn), a far more vile crime. So the FAQ portion should actually largely be "well, duh" sort of stuff to anybody who's been active on the Internet for more than a week or three. Lurk before you leap. Don't send attachments. Apply cut-and-paste liberally when replying to someone else's post, or when quoting a third-party source (such as a news article posted on a website somewhere). Check all the other replies to a particular thread in your inbox before you reply yourself; chances are somebody else has already said what you're thinking--and better than you could. Sad but true--with the continued growth of the Internet, newbies have got to learn this stuff *somewhere*. So take the FAQ and wave it in every new member's face. Beat them about the head and neck with it. Hold their noses and pinch their mandibular joints until they open up, then pour it down their necks--hell, use a funnel!-- and massage their throats vigorously until they swallow. If you know your way 'round the 'net, then you understand it's nothing personal, have a nice day, enjoy your stay. The FDT portion should be made freely available and accessible, and have its importance stressed in the FAQ. The savvy will of course seek it out immediately, and will utilize it to ease their transition from DGML neophyte to respected listmember and contributor. But by all means, keep it a separate document; if it's lumped in with the FAQ, the terminally clueless will have stopped reading long before getting that far, and our only recourse for dealing with them will be to unleash the MiB on them anyway. > Davide Mana > Torino, Italy > doctor.dee@libero.it > The Ice Cave - > http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm Chris Womack jcwomack@earthlink.net Keeper of the DGML (Ret'd.) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 6:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > The thing we are discussing - the DO Hammer of the Gods - is called a > Turbidity Current (or TBD for short). > I know I'll be carried away - Wonderfull. I can see it, black as night and as big as a small nation, moving across the sea bottom like a hurricane. The analogy that comes to mind is the pyroclastic flow - the fluidised ash and dust produced from some volcanic eruptions. This moves faster than a Turbidity pulse, but doesn't last as long - the solids fall out quicker. So - The DO build their cities on the top of extinct Sea Mounts. Consider R'yleh, the type and model of a DO city. Obviously built at the peak of a sea mountain. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 6:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Elder Sign ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Farnell But if this is the answer, then here are a few it would *not* work against (probably): > > Most cultists > Ghouls > Shoggoths > Elder Things > Deep Ones > > But we "know" it works against Deep Ones, because of "The Shadow over Innsmouth." >Well, maybe. Well maybe the DO were using Mythos magic / hypertech and the Elder sign interfered, not with their metabolism, but with their technology & weaponry? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 7:23 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. In a message dated 00-05-05 19:20:33 EDT, you write: << The DO build their cities on the top of extinct Sea Mounts. Consider R'yleh, the type and model of a DO city. Obviously built at the peak of a sea mountain. >> But then again, there was Davide's idea of floating structures anchored at the bottom. I like it because a) it makes DO cities look kewl, and b) it does give a possible explanation for R'yleh being able to pop to the surface and return to the bottom on short notice. What if the anchoring structure is alive? What if what the witnesses saw as land and rocks was more like the junk collected on the backs of some forms of hermit crab? What if DO cities can relocate, albeit at the speed of a crawling abalone? What if the shallower cities such as the Devil's Reef community are for building up a population of DO 'larvae' to populate the real DO city it will become when it gets to the deeps. Every day in every way they are getting deeper and deeper. What if I think this through before peppering y'all with what ifs? Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bruno Di Pentima [kranondp@usa.net] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 6:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: IRC? On Thu, 4 May 2000, William Timmins wrote: > Anyone on the list frequent IRC? If so, any particular channel? If there is enough people, it would be great if someone creates a channel... maybe #deltagreen ? (very imaginative). I am usually at #tierramedia in Undernet, under the nick Croto (I know that I am just a lurker... but if someone wants to chat... or need some fast info about Argentina... there I am :) ) -- Bruno Di Pentima kranondp@usa.net Santa Fe -- Argentina "No esta muerto lo que puede yacer eternamente, y con extranos evos puede morir hasta la muerte" H. P. Lovecraft From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 9:03 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Gladiator Well people, if you've been around here long enough you know that I'm obsessed with Spartacus. The movie, the man, the phenomenon, the conspiracy. Gladiator isn't about him, but it doesn't matter. A gladiator movie opening on the fifth day of the fifth month of Year Zero? Directed by Ridley Scott? I am soooooooo *there*. What a great Cinco de Mayo present for The Lizard King. I just love the way 'reality' unfolds to entertain me in particular. ObDG: Spartacus. The facts and the missing history. The conspiracy to mangle the movie. Meme wars. The Empire never ended. There is some potental here if anyone wanted to follow up on the 'movies as a force for American imperialism' thread that popped up and died. Winning hearts and minds through entertainment. In addition to the MKULTRA mindfucking, what other factions are out and about with a script and agenda? Invisibles fans already know about this. Mark McFadden Likes gladiator movies, and feels no need to apologize or equivocate. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 9:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Doing the FAQ Thing On Fri, 05 May 2000 19:10:25 +0200 Davide Mana wrote: >So, I'm thinking about breaking the FAQ in two main sub-sections. >The first, dealing with the basics, netiquette and 'how to survive on >DGML', and a second dealing with the real most frequently asked questions >that do not have to do with the lists administration, like > > . how do I start a campaign > . is this Necronomicon thing a real book Also, we can take care of a lot of this with nothing more than URLs leading to collated Ice Cave threads and other places on the WWW. For the latter question, we could just give a link the The Necronomicon FAQ. For the former question, well, we've got a lot of differing opinions on that, as with many such questions. Probably better to let the newcomers see how we thrashed it out by sending them to the thread. Perhaps along with a short answer and a "your mileage may vary" warning. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 9:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Elder Sign On Fri, 05 May 2000 16:06:46 +0200 Davide Mana wrote: >After all, unless I missed some posts, we are discussing _on which targets_ >does the Elder Sign work. >Not _how_ does it work. But by figuring out how it works, we can then predict which creatures it will affect. SCIENCE, my dear Dr. Dee! MWAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA! As far as I can see, there are no clear rules about how the Elder Sign affects Mythos beings, or which ones are affected. The spell description says it can be used to effectively seal a passage, but it says nothing of damage, why beings are repelled by it (does it cause them pain? act like a force field?), etc. If there are some clear rules on that, I'd like to see them. (Maybe the new hardcover CoC that's on its way to me will have the answer.) If there is no clear set of rules, it would make an excellent article for The Unspeakable Oath: the physics of the Elder Sign, with game rules. >Maybe the Elder Sign works by slightly but significantly hardening the >dimensional interface, thus causing pains and possible death to beings taht >exist on more than one dimension at the same time. More than 4 dimensions, I think you mean. :-) Also, rather than just multidimensionality, it could be _certain_ dimensions. Say the Elder Sign causes an interference pattern with Dimensions F, Q, and X--beings who derive life force from/exist in those dimensions will suffer. If "magical" energies come from those dimensions, this could weaken certain beings (including Human wizards). The Elder Things, of course, made sure to derive the energies that powered their weapons from dimensions unaffected by the Elder Sign. This explains how the Tibetan sigils might specifically target Hounds: They act on the dimension which the Hounds use to travel through time. By disrupting it locally, they make it impossible for the Hounds to appear in our dimension in that area. Also, since the Hounds are _always_ at least partially in the time-travelling dimension of angles, they can't just manifest some distance away and then travel to the temple to attack--they are sickened by the disruption even when not time-travelling. >How this happens, of course, is for Multidimensional Physics PhD.s on the >list to discuss. ;> Looking forward to that, myself. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:37 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Jury endures `yuck factor' ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip A Posehn > Considering HPL's love of adjectives it could be the "Dark and Stormy > Night in Arkham" contest. > > > why not start our own "Bad Lovecraft" contest? Hell, > > even HPL wrote parodies of his own works. Plenty of people > > *unintentionally* parody the Old Man; I say it's time we do it on > > purpose. > > > > Dave > > Someone? Bin dun. If you can get hold of it, read the small-press mag "Crypt of Cthulhu". This was a home of loving(?) tributes of this sort - combined with Serious Lovecraftian Literary Criticism. The round-robin issue "Herbert West-Reanimated" comes to mind. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Pinocchio (was Re: DG: Pluto) ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > > Pinocchio? > Not bad, eh? NO! Not bad at all, Dr Dee Is there an english-language translation of the original Pinocchio that you would recommend? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:14 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Spot the Mythos / Raglan Road ----- Original Message ----- From: Eckhard Huelshoff > > Sometimes you really meet the Mythos where you'd really not expect it. > > May I quote from the beautiful Irish traditional "Raglan Road" [ which disguises > itself as a love song ]: > Songs is it? Check out Tom o' Bedlam at http://www.enteract.com/~middltn/bedlyr.htm With a host of furious fancies, whereof I am commander. With a burning spear and a horse of Air, To the wilderness I wander. By a knight of Ghosts and Shadows, I summoned am to Tourney. Ten leagues beyond the wild world's end- Methinks it is no journey. Also, read up all you can about Taliessin The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:38 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. ----- Original Message ----- From: > But then again, there was Davide's idea of floating structures anchored at > the bottom. I like it because a) it makes DO cities look kewl, and b) it does > give a possible explanation for R'yleh being able to pop to the surface and > return to the bottom on short notice. Doh. So how come big C is "trapped" in there if the whole thing can float around at will? > What if I think this through before peppering y'all with what ifs? Maybe this one time you tripped a step . . But in general there's no need to change what works. So just keep spinning it out of your "thigh" (as a fine old phrase is mistranslated in the Bible)! The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 4:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Pinocchio (was Re: DG: Pluto) Cheers! >NO! > >Not bad at all, Dr Dee Thanks! > >Is there an english-language translation of the original Pinocchio that you >would recommend? For starters, the Project Gutemberg version - if nothing else, it's available for free http://www.gutenberg.org/gutenberg/by-title/xx54.html I'll try and look through the web for some original illustrations - Disney's Pinocchio sucks compared to some of the liberty or pre-rafaellitesque original illustrations. Hope this helps Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 5:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: IRC? Hello All Bruno wrote (Hi Bruno!) > On Thu, 4 May 2000, William Timmins wrote: > > > Anyone on the list frequent IRC? If so, any particular channel? > If there is enough people, it would be great if someone creates a > channel... maybe #deltagreen ? (very imaginative). I am usually at > #tierramedia in Undernet, under the nick Croto (I know that I am just > a lurker... but if someone wants to chat... or need some fast info > about Argentina... there I am :) ) Well all day today from now till 5pm at least GMT I'm going to be in: #DeltaGreen on any Undernet server you care to log into nicks: JTRogers StarkUK Stark2 so anyone who wants to discuss the shirt can come and ask me stuff. Later Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk Our kind. Us people. All of us that started the game with a crooked cue, that wanted so much and got so little, that meant so good and did so bad. Jim Thompson 'The Killer Inside Me' http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/tshirt.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 5:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Pinocchio (was Re: DG: Pluto) Davide Mana schrieb: [snip] > > I'll try and look through the web for some original illustrations - > Disney's Pinocchio sucks compared to some of the liberty or > pre-rafaellitesque original illustrations. My first contact to Pinocchio was a Cartoon show of 52 episodes that was aired once a week sometime during the mid- / late- 70s. I guess it had been produced in Japan, since it aired about the same time as the Nippon-made-cartoon-version of the Swiss national epic "Heidi". I enjoyed the cartoon. [ I was somewhere around the age of 6 ] I don't remember wether Jiminy Cricket appeared in it. All I remember that Pinocchio was accompanied by a Duck called Gina. Then I saw Disney's version and thought that it sucked. My third contact was reading the Book at about 12 or 14 years of age and I found it rather spooky. I thought there was a lot of strange symbolism in it. My fourth and probably most intriguing Pinocchio-Experience was watching an XXX-rated cartoon version at a party while being extremely drunk. ObDG: The X-Rated Version really concentrated on the Shub-Niggurath aspect of living wood. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 5:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Re: Spot the Mythos / Raglan Road On Sat, 6 May 2000 09:14:08 +0100 Andy Robertson wrote: >Songs is it? Check out Tom o' Bedlam at >http://www.enteract.com/~middltn/bedlyr.htm Poor Tom's a'cold... Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 5:29 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Re: Spot the Mythos / Raglan Road More Tom o'Bedlam--I missed this bit: The sober, white, and gentle, Me handle, touch, and spare not. But those that cross rhinocerous, Do what the panther dare not. I'm not sure what that means, but it kinda shivers me timbers. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 5:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Elder Sign (horribly long) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Farnell Davide Mana wrote: > >After all, unless I missed some posts, we are discussing _on which targets_ > >does the Elder Sign work. > >Not _how_ does it work. > But by figuring out how it works, we can then predict which creatures it will affect. SCIENCE, my dear Dr. Dee! MWAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA! > As far as I can see, there are no clear rules about how the Elder Sign affects Mythos beings, or which ones are affected. > If there is no clear set of rules, it would make an excellent article for The Unspeakable Oath: the physics of the Elder Sign, with game rules. OK, you asked for it. I humbly offer my ideas on "cross domain" entities, the history of the Universe, and how The Elder Sign works. Follow it through, you will see if it makes sense. 1) A VIEW OF DOMAINS Timmins states that the exact nature of Domains is uncertain. I suggest that we approach this from the perspective of Cosmology and Elementary Particle Physics. MATTER WITHIN OUR DOMAIN Our sort of matter is built of quarks and leptons. The Standard Model of elementary particles has it that there are three (and no more than three) "generations" of matter within our Domain. I II III up-quark charm-quark top-quark down-quark strange-quark bottom-quark electron muon tau electron-neutrino muon neutrino tau neutrino http://www.fnal.gov/pub/standardmodel.html Only the first Generation is stable in macroscopic time. The second and third decay to the first. Protons and neutrons are made from Generation I (up and down) quarks, combined in different ways. FORCES WITHIN OUR DOMAIN There are three types of fundamental forces that these particles interact by: Electromagnetism Weak Nuclear force Strong nuclear force All particles feel the Weak nuclear force Quarks and electrons-muons-taus feel the Electromagnetic force Quarks feel the Strong Nuclear force (this is complicated by the more recent understanding that EM and Weak are facets of one force. I won't go into that here) 2) TERMINOLOGY I will use the Talmud-derived term "Briah" for our Domain. 3) DARK MATTER About 95% if the mass of the Universe is non-baryonic - not made of quarks/electrons/neutrinos - not part of our Domain What is it? 4) A SPECULATION ABOUT OTHER DOMAINS I suggest that the "dark matter" consists of other types of particles, which interact with each other using different forces For example, the matter in our Domain (Briah) has three generations and three forces. The matter in Domain Yesod could have four generations and two forces. (I am picking completely arbitrary names here.) I II III IV yod-up yod-charm yod-top yod-hate yod-down yod-strange yod-bottom yod-love elect lemme trait carca n-elect n-lemme n-trait n-carca The matter in this domain might interact with itself through (let us say) just two Fundamental Forces - which we will call the Close and Far forces All partcles feel the Far force only yods feel the Close force. This matter might build up analogs of atoms, molecules, solids, liquids, gasses, plasmas, living things . . . Each Domain (of an unknown number) has its own type of matter, its own generations, its own symmetries, and its own forces. 4) INDEPENDENCE OF DOMAINS Since the matter in each different Domains feels a different set of fundamental forces, DOMAINS DO NOT NORMALLY INTERACT EXCEPT GRAVITATIONALLY. We know that other-Domain matter interacts gravitationally because it forms the "dark Matter" which gravitationally closes our universe. But you cannot normally see or feel other-Domain matter because it does not interact electromagnetically or through the strong force. It interpenetrates us without any effect. 5) COMMUNICATION BETWEEN DOMAINS Since, however, we know that there is interaction between Domains, we must modify this picture. Some Domains must have forces in common. For example, perhaps matter in Domain Yesod also feels the Electromagnetic force - but weakly. This gives us the picture of an entity in Domain Yesod partially interpenetrating us but feeling solid Briahtic matter, perhaps, as a sort of internal drag or damping field. ((For theoretical reasons, it is likely that in fact ALL matter in ALL domains feels the ENTIRE spectrum of fundamental forces - at some level. However in any given Domain, only a few forces are strongly felt: the others are ususlly too weak to measure)) 6) THE PROBABLE LOCAL DISTRIBUTION OF OTHER-DOMAIN MATTER 99% of the Earth's mass at least is Briahtic. But the Mythos entities _within_ the Earth are, I think, composed of other-Domain non-Briahtic matter. This non-Briahtic matter is caught within the Earth's gravitational well. We must assume that this matter is more "extended" than Briahtic matter - naturally less dense. (or perhaps this is true only of a few Domains, but they are the ones that count). Think of a series of "clouds" of Dark Matter interpenetrating the Earth and each other, each cloud being composed of matter from a different Domain. 7) THE EVOLUTION OF CROSS-DOMAIN ENTITIES If you have matter from different Domains in the same location, and if a limited amount of interaction is possible, then it may be possible to exploit cross-domain differences to drive biological metabolism. A simple example was discussed on this list a few weeks ago: Mythos entities that project areas of cold or heat. As I suggested then, I believe these entities are using the temperature difference to obtain energy. Suppose a proto-Wendigo is a biological entity in Domain Yesod. Suppose the Yesodic matter caught in the Earth's gravitational field is at a low temperature - say 100 K. Then, if this Yesodic entity can find some way to interact with the Briahtic matter of our earth (which is at around 300 K) it can get energy - it can warm itself up (if that's what it wants to do) or can even get chemical energy out of the process (by driving chemical cycles through differential temperature. Trust me). This gives a reason for non-Briahtic entities to start to _evolve_ cross-domain skills. ((Notice: there is every reason for local non-Briahtic entities to learn to interact with Briahtic matter, because they live within a "background" of 99% Briahtic matter. However, non-Briahtic matter is locally so rare that there is no reason for Earthly Briahtic entities to learn the trick. Presumably if we had a Yesodic planet with small amounts of Briahtic matter trapped in its gravitational well, conditions would be reversed)) 8) THE CURRENT SITUATION After 14 Gigayears of evolution, the current situation will be 10,000 times as complex. We will have Cross-domain entities which evolved locally, others which came from outside the Solar System, Many which exploit only the local "Briahtic" energy background, some which are tuned for cross-domain interaction of two, ten or an hundred other domains. Some will be simple animals, some technologically competent. Some have evolved cross-Domain metabolism, others learned it intelligently. Some may be microscopic, some vast. Some will be composed of symbioses between cross-domain entities which originated in different Domains and found mutual profit. These have their "bodies" distributed between domains and will be badly hurt by things which disrupt cross-domain interaction. Others will be 99% in one "home" Domain with only sensors, extensions and energy-gathering probes contacting other domains. These will be shut out, but will be able to retire unhurt. It is impossible to do more than suggest starting points. 9) THE ELDER SIGN I have surprisingly little to add to this. I suggest that, if the Elder Sign works to disrupt cross-domain interactions, it may be thought of as analagous to a magnet disrupting a hard drive - except that it does not put out a magnetic field, but rather a complex of other-domain fields (e.g. a "Far" field). Perhaps this complex disrupts interaction between any other Domain and Briah. Perhaps only certain Domains are affected, others are immune. The treatment necessary to create the Elder Sign suggests that the material is important. If the "greenish soapstone" incorporates other-Domain matter the effect could simply be other-Domain chemical, as has been suggested. Alternatively the inscribing of the Sign may be analogous to the process of magnetising a piece of iron. The idea that a Sign could have an effect through pure geometry is harder to understand. Some possibities - 1) Certain geometries may attract other-Domain entities of low intelligence that create powerful effects involuntarily. "airish Beasts". 2) Certain geometries could channel other-Domain matter in ways that are not intuitively obvious. For example if the other-Domain matter interacts weakly with Briahtic matter, perhaps putting the Briahtic matter in a certain configuration strengthens that interaction through resonance effects. We should not over-simplify: there may be many types of "Elder Sign" working in many different ways. Remember, traditional methods of preparation may emphasise things that are completely irrelevant to efficacy, while ignoring or assuming the truely vital elements. 10) A NOTE ON DOMAINS AND DIMENSIONS String Theory postulates that our universe is a 3-brane within a higher space. The higher space is supposed to have 11 dimensions, but the other 7 are tightly rolled up. Fundamental particles are vibrations in these other dimensions. I _believe_ that this could be tweaked to provide a view of the whole Universe which allows for Domains - each Domain being, if you like, one facet of a higher symmetry. In this view the "other Domain" matter may be thought of as microscopically displaced along one or more of these other 7 dimensions. This is what leads to the idea that matter in different Domains should (weakly) feel the forces native to other Domains. 11) FINALLY This is speculation beyond the limits of my knowledge, both of Physics, and of the Mythos. Apologies in advance! The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 6:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re:DG: Re: Spot the Mythos / Raglan Road ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Farnell > More Tom o'Bedlam--I missed this bit: > > The sober, white, and gentle, > Me handle, touch, and spare not. > But those that cross rhinocerous, > Do what the panther dare not. > > > I'm not sure what that means, but it kinda shivers me timbers. Oh yes. Henry Williamson ("Tarka the Otter") had the cheek to write a new verse "As a burst and blood-blown insect Cleaves to the wall it dies on, The bloody sun doth clot upon A Heaven without horizon I dare not but be Dreadless Since all things to me Dread are with a lonely day & a hurried way To the Land where the Lists of the Dead are The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 6:42 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Pinocchio, Masonry and martial arts. In a message dated 5/5/00 1:59:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << Pinocchio? Why not.... >> Yeah, like he said. << OK, believe it or not, but there's a 'serious' anthropology work looking into the Occult Roots of Pinocchio, that recycles most of the reverend McFadden's musings, and more.>> See? All I would have to do is follow the template and provide a bibliography and be sure to quote some people who agree with me. Instant authority. Would the whole Lizard King thing get in the way of my attaining academic respectability? What if I get a haircut? << According to Cecilia Gatto Trocchi (about whom more later), Pinocchio is a blatant initiatic treatise written by a freemason of the Florence Lodge (Carlo Collodi) to infuse the Teaching in small kids.>> And more fun than going to DeMolay meetings. <<[note: the following refers to the novel. The Dissney movie misses many interesting points.... on purpose?] >> That's the stuff that really stayed with me. I was lucky enough to have a grade school teacher who liked reading aloud. In one year we got 'Pinocchio', 'The Wizard of Oz' and 'Ozma of Oz'. Good year. That was the year I started making my own lick'n'stick tattoos and selling them to classmates and learned to do arithmetic in binary. Wow. << . Pinocchio is born of raw matter [snip] . he dies three times, hanged, drowned and eaten by sharks . he is finally born again, becoming a 'Good son'.>> And ready for his alchemical marriage. To Galatea I presume. << All of the above is from Gatto Trocchi's 'Il Risorgimento Esoterico' a 1996 book about the evidence of esotheric activity in the birthing throes of the Italian state. Cecilia Gatto Trocchi is not (IMHO) a reliable analyst of facts - she is too eager to impress the reader with her intellectual and cultural superiority.>> Man, I *hate* people like that. I'm like that. << Anyway, the 'Pinocchio' book is there for reading, and then you can attach any meaning to it. Mythos? Why not, as I said.>> [snip some cool Mythos parallels] << . add to all of the above that, to become a human being, Pinocchio has to stop living by the lies that are his second nature.>> Pinocchio is base matter, and so are we. To the Mason, becoming a human being, a true *human* being, is to become greater than what usually passes by that term. To stop lying is to stop performing your part in the farce (stop being part of the problem), and the beginning of writing your own dialogue. Is this a deeper meaning of 'everyone is a Star'? I don't know if I would try for a one-to-one parallel between Pinocchio and the Mythos. I would prefer to look for Mythos interpretations of Masonic (or OTO) perils. The OTO did seem to acknowledge the Ahura Mazda\Ahriman conflict, they prepared for magick combat against the monsters that co-exist with us on another plane. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes that sucker will morph into a face-eating servitor of some major Player that some books call Nyarlathotep and others Lucifer and others a Jungian archetype. I may seem to be straying from Pinocchio, but really I'm not. I'm just trying to give a little context for a children's book that uses Masonic allegory. Here's how I am using OTO and Rosicrucian themes in my scenarios: We've always had the Mythos around us. Since we survived as a race in spite of close proximity and frequent interaction, we probably have some abilities that are effective against the Mythos, without using Mythos spells. Your mileage may vary, but this is my universe I'm talking about. Think of The Matrix, then think about the Veil of Maya. Think of the implications of Quantum Theory, then think of OTO lessons. Why do so many GOO seem to want us to worship them? To believe in them? Not all of them need a buncha cultists opening gates or feeding them. It doesn't appear to be exclusively pragmatic. Read 'Rules of Engagement' to see some of the implications in action. If you can't meet the GOO on a level playing field here, confront them where it is possible, or redefine 'playing field' and 'level'. Make better metaphors than those big, immensely powerful but relatively unimaginative bastards. My house, motherfucker. My house. Y'all disrespect me I'll dish up some hot fresh metaphors that would turn you white. You're an immensely powerful and ancient malignant being that is to me what I am to an ant? Not in my house, Meat. I'm a writer and a poet and standup comic. Bring it on. You be a big hyperdimensional toad, and I'll be Godzilla or Voltron or whatever it takes. Bruce Lee didn't need a gun. You see...that about says it. First, you see it. You see yourself doing it until you don't just believe you can, you know you can, cuz you did. I looked at my first brick for a long time. Really grokked it. I hefted it, I rubbed it, I assured myself of it's solidity and knew that bone would break against it unless I did it just right. And then I began to see myself punching through it. At first it was Marvel Comics, with chi corruscating across my knuckles. But it got more realistic, until I could clearly see and feel myself punching through effortlessly. I knew that my fist couldn't break a brick, but my mind could. Sucker snapped in half like a breadstick. It kind of 'parted' for my fist. At least that's how it was for me. BTW, the iron hand training? Has nothing to do with breaking, if you do it right. That's to build up your hands for when you screw up. To minimize the damage. My Sensei, incidentally, didn't just do bigger and bigger stacks of bricks. One night during a private lesson he showed me something I had heard of but doubted. He stacked a half dozen bricks and told me to pick one. Not the top. I chose the fourth one down. He zoned, then punched, hitting the top brick and coming to an abrupt stop. The fourth brick down, and only that brick, broke. You don't break bricks with your knuckles. Oh yeah, the Mi-Go want what we've got real bad. We just don't know what we have. Yet. Over time we have learned some techniques that have proven efficacious. Then history gets in the way and it gets lost. But it resurfaces again and again. Mark McFadden Doesn't need a gun. P.S. Saw 'Gladiator'. If you thought Pinocchio had some deeper meaning.... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Spot the Mythos / Raglan Road In a message dated 5/6/00 3:31:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, superdave@disinfo.net writes: << But those that cross rhinocerous, Do what the panther dare not. >> Hail to the King, baby. Celebrate the Lizard. There is no escape. Go ahead, try to get obscure. It'll be waiting for you. Mark McFadden Count the letters in 'Do what the panther dare not.' I double-dog dare ya. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:17 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Traveller Alert On Fri, 5 May 2000, Austin Chamberlain wrote: > Update on the big metal balls: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/africa/newsid_732000/732604.stm > > They're parts of a Delta II rocket, apparently. I'll be checking this with > my contacts at the observatory. So you're just gonna march on in there and announce "I'm here to check out the Big Metal Balls. Anybody gotta problem with that?" The Man in Black is : White Hot. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. On Wed, 3 May 2000, Louise Hayes wrote: > Well, there's etiquette and there's etiquette. After all, we're not inviting > anyone to dinner are we? (Hell, I don't even know any DG players in the > area...) But that said, there is still the need for good manners. Without > those you quickly find that you have no friends, no life... I have found in my limited experience that emphasis on manners over substance is usually directly related to, and breeds, hypocrisy and what that lizard guy calls modern management. I prefer to abandon the facade and reveal all the ugly tru7h beneath. This saves time and avoids any confusion. I have found many who agree with me in principle, but lack the courage of their convictions. This is fine, I've swallowed shit with a smile before, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. By presenting the FAQ in an informal, "Gonzo Journalism" style, I feel that we will encourage freedom of expression among those hordes of newbie scum that even now quake in terror that someone might actually insult or otherwise take notice of them. Also, it's fun. The Man in Black is : fun. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:42 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Elder Sign (horribly long) >From: "Andy Robertson" >I humbly offer my ideas on "cross domain" entities, the history of the >Universe, and how The Elder Sign works. Follow it through, you will see >if >it makes sense. (much deleted) Brilliant! Quite wonderful stuff. May I include it in my Endtimes stuff? With attribution, of course. -=Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:54 AM To: Delta Green Subject: Re: DG: Bouncing mail messages ->Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown On Wed, 3 May 2000, Chris Pencis wrote: > Apparently a Florian Lang in Munich has subscribed to the DGML. This is > great - its great to have new members... ??? You don't recognize the great Swiss Cheese!? He's been around the block a few times on this list my man. Damn'd crusty sore has been hoarding the chocolate for years... That being said, I have also encountered this problem, but considered it to be part and parcel of my wonderful and entirely free email service. The only true solution to this lies in the hands of Florian and our own CHRISTOPHER, who is probably dead now that Yahoo! has compromised the secure server system. We all knew that something like this was bound to happen. It was only a matter a time. Speaking of that: I'm now taking bids on having the artificial intelligences from the Tesseract erase your name from certain files. Cash or any major Credit Card accepted. No Hound of Tindalos will call. Offer valid in 49 states... Sooorrry Tennessee! The Man in Black is : busy pulling that new T7 line. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Trouble in Texas On Wed, 3 May 2000, that Satanic Hun, Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > Probably DG should check out wether the officials at Tarrant County Jail > are cultists who keep their inmates obsessed by demons and who interfere > with any desperate attempt to rescue those poor souls. You know, it would be a shame if a jail were to suffer a mysterious direct hit with a Fuel Air Munition delivered by what the few survivors described as "an aerial armada of unmarked black helicopters." Think of all those convicts burning and screaming to death in an inferno, all the while trapped behind fences and helplessly locked in their cells. Think of the Wackenhut employees charring into ash. THINK OF THE HUMANITY, MY GAWD THE HUMANITY~! Why, it would be the biggest disaster in the History of Incarceration, except for that Nazi thing... Let's call it the biggest disaster in the history of American incarceration. Yep, a damn shame indeed. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Trouble in Texas On Wed, 3 May 2000 forvalaka@juno.com wrote: > That's only 20 minutes from me. Maybe I should check it out. Maybe as a > matter of self defense. Yeah. You do that. Send us an update. > ObDG: Undercover ops in prison. I take it you're still waiting for your copy of Rules of Engagement? Anyway: I still have some old idea fragments about a Karotechia/Majestic plot in prison. It's called CONCRETE MOTHER, after a kewl quote I heard on the Discovery Channel. The research is your standard necromatic nastyness run for Dr. Frank, by a PAPERCLIP scientist working for Majestic, but actually using their resources for the Karotechia. Ironically, the Aryan Brotherhood provides volunteers for various ressurection, reanimation and other icky necromantic experiments. The "lesser" races also provide slightly less motivated research subjects. To make matters worse, the prison was built on the site of a long depleted uranium mine in South Dakota. This mine houses that other Shan ship, the one in Day of the Beast (or was it some other scenario). The protagonist (for the short story version) was a RECOIL soldier who killed a US Senator. Remarkably Shan proof, those crazy RECOIL soldiers. Almost *too* Shan proof... Hmm...? The Man in Black is : Mr. Shan 1999 Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Weirdness That goatsucking Daniel Harms wrote: > Three pygmy goats. Their heads cut off. Surrounded by feathers. And > their stomachs sliced open and filled with - baked beans? R-R-ROLL that beautiful bean footage! Can ya' SMMEEELLL what the... What the...? I didn't cook that! > http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/2000/May/02/city/EGOAT02.htm The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:33 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Conspiracy Slips Up On Thu, 4 May 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: > Maybe we could have a Hunting Horror as Rover... Have you been paying attention? Taking notes? Silly boy, Rover is a Shoggoth. Always has been, always will be. He just happens to have rolled a low INT and has the personality of a happy puppy who wants to play with you. Forever. > But... I'll leave the dicussion of Is Fall-out Really The End? or whatever > to the rest of ya. On a similar note to bizarre scenarios, has anyone seen > the movie Cube? Saw it for the first time last night. The only selling point for me was Nicole deBoer. Mmm... Nicole deBoer. Cute as a button, she is. The Man in Black is : in love during spring again. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Tex Avery On Thu, 4 May 2000 Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > at least Velma didn't show up - the bitch. They invented the term "screw like > a bunny" to describe her - anytime, anywhere - she ruined more than one > rabbit in her time. You're confusing your misogyny. A "slut" is someone who'll sleep with anyone. A "bitch" is someone who'll sleep with anyone... but *YOU*. Oh wait, now I understand. The Man in Black is : a whore. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]