From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 12:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Elder Sign (horribly long) On Sat, 6 May 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > The matter in Domain Yesod could have four generations and two forces. (I > am picking completely arbitrary names here.) > > > I II III IV > > yod-up yod-charm yod-top yod-hate > yod-down yod-strange yod-bottom yod-love > elect lemme trait carca > n-elect n-lemme n-trait n-carca How odd, it bounces right along with some rubber science I made up a long time ago. I imagine the Majestic/Mi-Go created CMAI operating on faster than light optics (like the Colour out of Space). This places them in a state where time means nothing. As the Tesseract factories of Tindalos manufacture the Crystals' folded space, and as the Tesseracts fold and unfold according to the CMAI calculations, new and possibly transient dimensions are discovered. All the new particles detected by Chronohedron, the AI set up to monitor Tesseract operations, are duly noted and recorded. I tend to fictionalize the multi-dimensional and superhuman communication between AI's as a weird form of cyber-poetry-code, a trick I stole from Dan Simmons and Bungie software. A typical fold operation might result in the following output: [chronohedron.ai.net] :async.fold.axis: orbital declination @235472890 -@647890 :transfer mode=helix: :seventh quadrant: :tesseract unfold: :wormhole tunneling: :defense drone autosend: track.o : offense.o : mobile.o 8*10^3.14159 kilojoules 32 new particles detected {disconnect} The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 12:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) On Sat, 6 May 2000, Mused wrote: > I think the suckiest job I have ever heard of was a girlfriend of a friend > of mine had a job for the summer of "beating off pigs" > > She would masturbate the pigs to get sperm for sale to breeders. Are you sure you're not confusing your friend (if you have such a thing :) for a swine? Did we mention something about RETARDS not FUCKING TRIMMING THEIR QUOTES~!? It is NOT hard. Highlight the irrelevant portions and press delete. This is how 90% of mail programs do it. Is this too much of a chore for you? Are you stupid AND lazy? Do you enjoy playing this game with me? I WILL OUTLAST YOU~! I've been doing it since 1997. ARRRRGGGGHHH~! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 12:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Oops! On Tue, 2 May 100 jnielsen@forbin.com wrote: > My humble apologies for wasting all the bandwidth with my > double-post faux-pas. I was just taking my ISP's Web-based > e-mail for a spin (DGML at work! I'm bound to get canned > for this) and am still getting used to the controls. Hmm... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 12:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: OUTLOOK on the move? On Wed, 3 May 2000 USFORREC1@aol.com wrote: > ***SOME MINOR COUNTDOWN AND ROE SPOILERS BELOW*** > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > > Several Navy and Coast Guard warships and an estimated 1000 Marines have > arrived off Vieques, Puerto Rico in conjunction with federal agents (led by > the FBI) and local riot police. Their purpose is to remove about 50 > protesters who have been encamped on the Navy bombing range on the island. > Now knowing what really lurks on the island and the overwhelming show of > force involved, this opens up some questions. Deep One celebrants? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 1:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Pinocchio, Masonry and martial arts. In a message dated 5/6/00 7:44:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << I can explain all this in terms of Physics. Honest. But can I punch through a brick? So, you win. >> In some ways I was cheating, because I knew enough about the material and precise application of force to know that it could be done. Perhaps I lack an essential element of faith, but I just couldn't see the physics picture as easily as the Marvel Comics scenario. So I followed my own advice a) Play to your strengths b) Go forward and remain receptive to new signals because at the same time I was having trouble visualizing the graphs and equations reassuring me that it could be done, I knew that they were also metaphors for the 'reality' of the brick. Different models, same hard brick. Trust me, I do not denigrate science, I make my living as an acolyte. But I will publicly deride and mock the genitals of any former scientist that surrenders to the siren call of certainty. I say former scientist, because the knob relinquished the title when he took up cant and dogma. Science is a process, baby, not revealed 'truth'. Do you realize you mirrored a comment I made on an extropian mailing list mumbledy-mumble years ago? Some CSICOP monkey reared back on his hindquarters and attempted a 'scientific' dominance display to end my metaphysical musings. So I challenged him to break a brick. Here, wrap some cold equations around your throbbing knuckles. Better? It ain't either\or. I recommend a firm grasp of physics while mixing chemicals or trimming the pots around a charged CRT. When thrusting your fist through a brick, I find contemplating the interconnectedness of all things, rendering the difference between my fist and the brick to be a convention used by the dream I'm trying to wake from to be somewhat more efficacious. Also, I've never had the balls to try it relying on my ability to accurately aim a blow of sufficient force and precise angle to allow my bone to beat the stone. I'd rather go metaphysical and let my hand deal with those mundane details. Nah nah, nothing magical or irrational, it's all scientific, saw it in a book once. Ki-yai! My training in electronics and my interest in pop physics (Scientific American but skipping over most of the math) helped me pick up on what some of the older martial arts texts were discussing in metaphysical terms. And my Sensei was amused to find out why I could give the number of any I Ching hexagram so easily. Having a health plan that covered acupuncture treatment helped make me more receptive to chi exercises. Try to imagine the quantum leap of faith I would have to take if I wasn't aware of quantum physics and it's implications. Martial arts, now more than ever. ObDG: a little something for character generation. Here it is epigrammatically: Use a gun and have no fear of anything in your sights. Use martial arts and have no fear. It isn't the hit points, it's the attitude. That's why a trained attack dog can take a soldier with an M-16. And for an extra bonus media reference, how's this? I knew Neo was just delaying the inevitable by asking for lots of guns. Silly rabbit, you don't fight the Matrix with Matrix tools. Why limit yourself? But a katana or lightsaber has some possibilities.... During the extropian flame fest, I was serious when I proposed a larger experiment. Make teams of the various models and measure brick breakage. I'll do my zen thing with the Discordians, the CSICOP gang can graph and analyze. Further, I'd like to see someone invoke a protective spirit, someone using hypnosis, someone using biofeedback, someone channeling Miyamoto Musashi, someone channeling Sonny Chiba, and someone channeling Batman. Whipping yourself to a berserker frenzy through dance and drumming? Very nice, pick up your bricks at the Registration tent. Check results. Then switch. Check results. No winners or losers, just some quantifiable data for once. I really really admire the scientist who demonstrated with his own feet that his certain knowledge of physiology and the physics of the coals and sweat and soles of his feet that he could walk across a bed of coals without the mumbo-jumbo. Two observations: He prepared for the experiment using biofeedback techniques to assure himself of a good coating of sweat and to program himself to walk across the coals without hesitation. Ahem. Biofeedback is yoga with instruments. I had access to a biofeedback monitor that measured galvanic skin response (sweat) in college. I really have trouble imagining how I would go about thinking my finger to sweat at precise levels, but after a weeks practice I could make the tone s-l-o-w-l-y play 'Mary Had A Little Lamb', holdng each note long enough to make the melody identifiable. He did get some blisters, but so do some true believers. Too small a sample to make any generalizations. OK, three. It was one of those California empowerment seminar four-brisk-steps-you're-out coal pits, not one of the l-o-n-g ones on National Geographic. But that simply indicates that perhaps some models are more useful than others depending on the activity. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 1:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 That plagerizing, spamming, non-URL posting, piece of sub-human filth, Eckhard "I'm a lawyer" Huelshoff wrote and wrote and wrote: > But I also agree that it is pretty strange that the highest Christian > holiday is dominated by pagan fertility symbols like Eggs, Rabbits and [ > in my home region ] huge bonfires. Really, Christianity ate all sorts of religious traditions, as was the Roman tradition. Remember Rome? That place where they had a statue of every gawd they could possibly find and one statue for the "unknown" gawd, just in case they might offend some diety or other. > >In past separate occasions, two foreigners—a Japanese and a Belgian > >woman—were allowed to be nailed on a wooden cross. > But their explanation: They don't crucify foreigners anymore to "PROTECT > THEIR CULTURE"!?!?!? I don't remember the Belgian, which can't be good, but that damned Japanese asshole was there because he was a sadomasochistic pornstar filming a new flick. He deceived those macrovirus spreading Manongs into thinking he was some devoted X-tian or what. So they legislated this crap out of existence. Now if they could just get a literacy level of over 30% in this pissant village, they might stop crucifying themselves. I bet they don't even make the fake anti-christ make the cross himself. I'm damn sure they don't drive the nine inch nails between the radius and ulna of the forearm in the proper Roman fashion. Wimps. Crucifixion is a lost art. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 1:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 The Man in Black schrieb: > That plagerizing, spamming, non-URL posting, piece of sub-human filth, > Eckhard "I'm a lawyer" Huelshoff wrote and wrote and wrote: I am sorry and on my knees. I am a bad boy and I won't do it again. BTW: I did not post the URLs cause I received the articles from somebody else, who did not sent me just the articles, not the URLs. [snip] > I don't remember the Belgian, which can't be good, but that damned > Japanese asshole was there because he was a sadomasochistic pornstar > filming a new flick. Mmh, I have to admit that I like the taste- & ruthlessnes of this. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 1:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. On 6 May, 2000 AD, "Andy Robertson" writes, concerning TBD (Turbidity Currents): >Wonderfull. I can see it, black as night and as big as a small nation, >moving across the sea bottom like a hurricane. > And really noisy, I hope, and a conspicuous target for active sonar due to the various suspended solids... Turbidity Currents sound like an interesting phenomenon to study, but not one I would wish to study from close range! An SSN that gets caught in a TBD would probably have about the same chance as a bus caught in an avalanche! Even if the hull held up under the impact of the TBD, and the boat wasn't dashed to bits against seafloor obstructions, or hopelessly mired when the current finally slowed down, it would be easy for a TBD to carry her down to collapse depth... We talk about "deep-diving" subs, but -- except for some specialized research vessels -- it's astonishing just how much of the ocean floor is still beyond the capabilities of us land-dwellers' submarines! The "Test Depth" for "Thresher" and her sisters, for example, was apparently about 1,300 feet. (Think of "Test Depth" as "How Deep the Warranty Still Applies"... The boat can go deeper, but with some risk.) The USN is said to design its subs with a 1.5 safety factor (other nations may use different safety factors -- I've heard the UK uses 1.75, for example), which would put collapse depth ("crush depth") at about 1,850 feet. Which is pretty good, considering that, when the class was built (and for many years afterward), all the USN would admit was that its SSNs could dive to "greater than 400 feet"! It is significantly better than the performance of the S-boat that fired on Devil's Reef during the 1928 raid -- she had a Test Depth of around 200 feet! However good the above performance is, it is still really shallow compared to the depths of the sea, once you leave the continental shelf. For example, the depth to bottom in the area where "Thresher" was lost, 220 miles off Boston, was 8,400 feet. (I remember this from when, as a grade-school kid (it was spring of the same year as the assassination of JFK), I read the newspaper stories concerning the sinking -- it sounded like really deep water to me even then!) The SSN's hull probably collapsed while she was still over a mile above the ocean floor! If most of the DO cities are in this sort of deep water, we will (in the forseeable future) be able to (perhaps) locate them, and to (if necessary) blast them with nuclear depth bombs, but we will have a difficult time sending ambassadors down there to negotiate a peace (or, if we're not yet ready to try diplomacy, SEALs to conduct a clandestine recon)... I can imagine an SSN, in the first decade or two of one-and-twenty, firing a nuclear stand-off weapon (a descendant of the SUBROC) at a DO city on the continental shelf. The target is destroyed, and then a TBD triggered by the detonation catches the sub (whose sonar is temporarily degraded by the "blue-out" effects of an underwater nuclear burst), and the pesky land-dwellers are hoist on their own petard! Being a land-dweller, myself, I find this a bit disconcerting -- have to remember to mention this potential hazard when I do the briefing for RIPTIDE II...:) >The analogy that comes to mind is the pyroclastic flow - the fluidised ash >and dust produced from some volcanic eruptions. This moves faster than a >Turbidity pulse, but doesn't last as long - the solids fall out quicker. Probably a better analogy than mine with the avalanche! Sort of like what happened on Martinique, but slightly slower and cold instead of hot... > >So - > >The DO build their cities on the top of extinct Sea Mounts. In that case, maybe we can visit them, after all... Probably, the best type of seamount for their purposes would be a Guyot (sp?) -- a type of seamount with a flat top, a little like a mesa... Many years ago, I read a suggestion in a book on oceanography, that such a seamount would be a good location for one of the first undersea colonies built by us land-dwellers (sort of like the facilities on "Sea Quest DSV", or the undersea cities in Pohl & Williamson's "Undersea Quest" trilogy). There would be access to deep water nearby for research submersibles, ROVs, etc., but the facilities themselves, on the seamount, would not need to be as massive (and costly)! Picture, if you will, a research vessel sometime in the next century, surveying a flat-topped seamount as a site for such an underwater city... and finding that it was such a good place for a city that the Deep Ones (will they insist on being called "Native Pelagians", or "Native Benthians", or the like?) have already built there! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: May 4, 1970 Caught the TLC program on Kent State last night and was pleasantly surprised for the most part. I wasn't there at the time and learned a few things and remembered a few more that time had dimmed. The whole anti-war demonstration vs national guard confrontation scenario over several days would make a good backdrop for a campaigh adding to the level of tension, paranoia and at the same time allowing the team to do a lot of things unnoticed that would normally attract attention. Of course, the same would apply to the other side... Phil Posehn who is humming "The Internationale'" with a small wistful smile ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joseph Camp [alphonse@delta-green.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:44 PM To: dgrpg Subject: Re: DG: DGEOv3 Review (long, KEO) >Second, it lacks art. The strange >visual effects described in the text could have and should have been >shown. Since Pagan Publishing's strong artist is also the author, it >is obvious why there weren't. Actually, none of the DGEO chapbooks include interior art because the short-run printing method Pagan uses for them cannot print interior artwork at a quality up to their standards. Rather than include muddily-printed art, they've opted for straight info instead. If there were an acceptable and affordable alternative, they'd have gladly taken it. be seeing you, Alphonse From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:56 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Pinocchio, Masonry and martial arts. ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Do you realize you mirrored a comment I made on an extropian mailing list > mumbledy-mumble years ago? Mirrored = the same, or mirrored = the inverse? :-)) But I'm pleased as punch to learn that. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:06 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: The Man in Black >> I'm damn sure they don't >> drive the nine inch nails between the radius and ulna of the forearm in >> the proper Roman fashion. Wimps. Crucifixion is a lost art. Back on the Shroud of Turin thread - if I recall the book I read back in the 80's, the Shroud "fans" claim that the nails were driven between the small bones that make up the wrist. There is a hole or gap that a large nerve goes through, the one that controls the thumb. In a properly done Crucifiction, this is the hole the nail is put through. The nerve is crushed and the thumb snaps across the palm. Dunno if it's true, but it's a nice nasty detail . . . The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Layne > > In that case, maybe we can visit them, after all... Probably, the best > type of seamount for their purposes would be a Guyot (sp?) -- a type of > seamount with a flat top, a little like a mesa... > > Many years ago, I read a suggestion in a book on oceanography, that > such a seamount would be a good location for one of the first undersea > colonies Dat's interesting. Underwater there is no energy cost to moving yourself vertically, of course - buoyancy = gravity - but there might be a metabolic cost in adapting to pressure differences . . . and anyone can see a host of other reasons for picking a level site (moving stones about FX). So maybe you are right. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 11:56 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. Greetings. >> The DO build their cities on the top of extinct Sea Mounts. > >No such thing as an extinct volcano. I hate to be a spoilsport. Unless we are experiencing some kind of terminology conflict (possible, but unlikely - I learned my geology through English texts), the above is nonsense. . a . seamonts are not volcanoes . b . seamonts are not defines as extinct or otherwise . c . extinct volcano is a reasonable concept - and a lot of fine examples can be found in Hawaii. >> Obviously built at the peak of a sea mountain. > >No Deep Ones in Call of Cthulhu. An island rising and lowering on an >"extinct" volcano? Highly dubious. Wrong, sorry. To the countrary, most ephemeral islands (here today, gone tomorrow) are of a volcanic nature - go ask Icelanders for more anecdotes on the subject. But again, a 'sea mountain' is not necesarily a volcano. >I think R'yleh is one of those floating things Davide mentioned. This >explains it's indeterminate location. The variation in density causing it >to surface and submerge could then easily be tied to the position of the >stars, interstellar ley lines forming the constellations, the transmission >of cultist POW and so on and so forth. Thanks for the appreciation. I generally prefer to have R'lyeh on a local bathimetric anomaly (a seamount, a drowned patch reef or atoil) and the whole (basement plus city plus Cthulhu) gets the yo-yo treatment thanks to a strategically placed fault. The model poses lots of quirky geodynamical problems, but thankfully I am the geologist in my team ;> Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 4:25 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > . a . seamonts are not volcanoes My mistake Dr Dee - I was thinking of Hawaii, it's true. Correction accepted. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steve and Leslie Dustin [chupacabra@sprynet.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 4:27 PM To: Delta Green Subject: DG: Cult of Transcendence I'm curious if anyone has any info on the Cult of Transcendence. Its barely mentioned in the main Delta Green books, but I'm considering using it as a main rational behind a lot of mythos activity in a DG campaign I'm going to ramp up on soon. For now, the players won't run across it at all, but if they dig deep enough they'll find it to be the main mover and shaker in the campaign, using even MJ-12 and maybe the Fate as pawns. Anywhere I can find more info would be much appreciated. Thanks, Steve chupacabra@sprynet.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 5:12 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: The Color ----- Original Message ----- From: The Man in Black > How odd, it bounces right along with some rubber science I made up a long > time ago. I imagine the Majestic/Mi-Go created CMAI operating on faster > than light optics (like the Colour out of Space). I would guess that the meteor in The Color Out Of Space was a rare bit of an other-Domain matter that happened to interact quite strongly with Briahtic matter. Call it, arbitrarily, Domain Kether. This interaction apparently destroyed the Kethertic matter, or more accurately perhaps made it change into another and more typical form (allotrope?) which did not interact with Briahtic matter. If the meteor was simply wasting away spontanaeously it would not have reached the Earth. It must have been contact with Briahtic matter that made it disintegrate. Reflect on the samples' "affinity with silicon". I guess that as the surface of the meteor reacted and was transformed into a non-interactive allotrope, the (transformed) Kethertic matter simply fell towards the center of the Earth, following gravity. The meteor appeared to shrink. Unfortunately the meteor also contained some sophisticated living entities that were masters of inter-Domain interaction. What happened after that is a matter of record. ---- **** ---- How did the subjective impression of an "unknown colour" outside the normal spectrum happen? It is not enough to say that the "color" was (eg) ultraviolet and that people's eyes became sensitive to it: the problem is that as far as we know the human brain/mind does not contain nervous paths to give the subjective impression of an "outside" color. Perhaps the physical effect on the eyes, brain & neurons of Kethertic radiations? If some Kethertic forms of matter interact electromagnetically (and so can rest on Briahtic rock and soil, which is a lattice of electromagnetic forces), it is possible that some Briahtic matter interacts with unknown Kethertic radiations. Nervous systems are sensitive - witness the effect, recently debated onlist, of putting your head in a magnetic field. Or perhaps Kethertic cross-domain symbiotes/diseases infecting animals and people? Microscopic entities that had adapted for this sort of thing through billions of years? Whistling in the dark, of course. There is too little evidence. If only we could experiment. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 6:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) In a message dated 5/6/00 12:28:11 PM Central Daylight Time, paposehn@juno.com writes: << Well there is that one McD I've been curious about...the one with "Arbeit Macht Fries" over the employee enterance... Phil >> Actually you misread it. The fry cook is Albert and the sign says, "Albert makes fries!" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Quiller [quiller@quiller.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:56 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: FAQ it In message , The Man in Black writes >That plagerizing, spamming, non-URL posting, piece of sub-human filth, >Eckhard "I'm a lawyer" Huelshoff wrote and wrote and wrote: For the FAQ, lets not just have a "Who is the MiB" section, I think we need a "Best of the MiB" spot just to let people know what they're letting themselves in for... "MiB's Top Ten Smackdowns"? Now then, nominations anyone? Steve Pritchard "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" -Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347 From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) In a message dated 5/6/00 8:53:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ambjpe@gis.net writes: << Well, poultry slaughter is sucky, all right, but you fail to provide any details that would help fellow keepers flesh this out. What were the facilities like? Especially odious management? Were you issued protective gear? Co-wokers odd? Noisy job? How were the chicken feet delivered to you, and how many went in a bag? Who are the end-users of bags of chicken feet? >> What were the most common injuries and how bad were they? What did your co-workers talk about on breaks? Bagging chicken feet? I'm seeing you holding a burlap sack under big pipe as it gushed chicken feet. You swing it aside and stitch up the top, then sling it over your shoulder like a stevedore and take it to the freezer. No? Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: DGML endures `yuck factor' In a message dated 5/6/00 8:41:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << The Man in Black is : not gonna suck out the Gerbil. NO WAY! >> Well would you at least do me a favor and have a look to see how it's doing? Yeah, I guess it would be dark in there. So light a match. Whoops. "Armageddon!" Mark McFadden Imagine me directing 'Magnolia' From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 8:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Color >From: "Andy Robertson" >Or perhaps Kethertic cross-domain symbiotes/diseases infecting animals and >people? Microscopic entities that had adapted for this sort of thing >through billions of years? > > >Whistling in the dark, of course. There is too little evidence. > >If only we could experiment. > >The Glove Cleaner A long time ago I conceived of a gameworld in which 'magic', religion, spirits, and spells were all various forms of some odd form of energy-life. This virus/symbiote would infect humans and, in exchange for absorbing energy and propogation, had developed ways to protect their hosts. Such as tossing fireballs. There was a chilling documentary about the organism that infects snails and makes them climb up, wave at passing birds, and then infect birds. The snail's eyestalks get HUGE... like almost as big as the rest of the body. Swollen huge, like big grubs, and FLASHING. Like a strobe light, with many colors... I thought it was a special effect, at first, it looked so otherworldly. Anyhow, consider: magic, power, and life forms. Perhaps other-domain microbes are VERY common on earth, perhaps all life is infested with a thin layer of other-microbes? This could be tied to the biological-ghoul setup, the Deep One changes, and a host of other effects. Elder Sign, then, could be like swallowing an antibiotic. Really bad for those 'harmful organisms'. Humans? Well, it kills off e coli, so it gives you ... bad digestion, to put it nicely. Mages and others who, perhaps, cultivate these 'infections' are stymied by the Elder Sign. It suppresses their ability to manipulate their 'other'selves, the microbe colonies which can tangle through different domains and create interesting effects. Evidence would be as follows: Prolonged exposure to an Elder Sign should cause every human and life form to suffer mild effects, of some sort. Perhaps listlessness and other subjective data that can be corrolated. Potentially, very prolonged exposure might result in death, depending on how vital these other-domain microbes are. This isn't commonly noticed because very very few lifeforms have been exposed to elder signs for any length of time. If this seems odd, I recall hearing about an experiment with rats. The rats were given only 'heavy' water... water that is predominantly deuterium, rather than hydrogen. There is no chemical difference between regular and heavy water, only a slight difference in mass. Still, the rats died after a week or something on that order. Why? Well, apparantly, the slight difference in water mass made some difference on the metabolism. Eventually, this difference killed them. Another point... the idea of other-matter microbes and forces does not mean every interaction is simply a separate world. The interactions between domains may be able to create odd effects. Depending on the forces of other domains, interactions between domains could warp time and space, or create quite odd and complex interactions. Some phenomena may not actually represent actions within domains, with limited interactions from domain to domain. The interactions and relationships BETWEEN domains may, in themselves, be complex areas of life and events. The division of the universe into loosely interacting domains may, itself, be another human conceit or illusion, the illusion of separation. The desire to say 'well, things happened this way HERE.' Perhaps nothing in our world stands outside of the others, that the mythos breathes in our every cell and thought. So. 10 domains. And the sephiroth, the 'between' domains between them. And the qlippothic realms... the shadow or 'anti' domains that are defined by domains but do not properly exist. >Agent Timmins< Sowing more seeds.... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joseph Camp [alphonse@delta-green.com] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 9:28 PM To: dgrpg Subject: Re: DG: Cult of Transcendence >Anywhere I can find >more info would be much appreciated. Nothing much is available right now, though one of their front organizations crops up in the short story "Potential Recruit" from DG: ALIEN INTELLIGENCE. Pagan'll get to them eventually. be seeing you, Alphonse From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steve Allison [sallison@netcomuk.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 9:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Cult of Transcendence Steve and Leslie Dustin wrote: > I'm curious if anyone has any info on the Cult of Transcendence. Its barely > mentioned in the main Delta Green books, but I'm considering using it as a > main rational behind a lot of mythos activity in a DG campaign I'm going to > ramp up on soon. Well, AFAIK, there is no 'official' canon on the CoT from Pagan, despite the promises of a book detailing the cult in DG. To be honest this is fair enough, it's *very* hard to come up with 'a huge illuminati-esque' group and detail it without it coming accross as horribly cliched. This, I imagine is why no sourcebook for the CoT has emerged - it's too hard to get right in a short period f time, not that I doubt the ability of the pagan folks to do it well, but it *is* hard. Anyway, I use the CoT covertly too. Personally I've not felt the need to come up with am over-arching plot to handle them - the players have experienced several apparently random and unconnected acts. If all goes according to plan, the most paranoid players will put forward the idea of a global cult off his own back (i.e. with little prompting) and they will come up with their own ideas about the CoT. Already one player is a bit worried about what's going on in Stockholm. Of course, the CoT is *very* clever (think The Fate and multiply by 1000), and realistically no group of PCs should be able to deduce their existence. This is why I've not really bothered to detail them, they are hidden behind so many facades that any investigation will reveal at best tenuous links between different cover organisations. My essential advice would be that you don't really need to know anything about the internals of the CoT, simply take their goals into account, and then come up with cover groups (who are usually several steps away from the CoT in the conspiracy hierarchy) who do their bidding. Often there are groups controlled by the cult doing exactly the opposite too - this is a great way for them to ferment conflict. So; don't worry about th epersonalities or anything, simply present an endless array of fronts, which are easily lifted from any conspiracy you care to mention (or imagine). I reccomend 'the Big Book of Conspiracies' (ISBN 1-56389-186-7) for quick, random conspiracy ideas, though some of them are alittle mainstream these days (a pox on the x-files!). Bear in mind that in my game ultimately the CoT will triumph (the stars are on their side, after all) and so I don't really want the PCs yomping over to Sweden and destrying the cult. In fact I personally think the cult shouldn't really be located in one geographical locale, but distributed over the globe, making it much harder to deal with. The most important thing, IMHO, is not to have the cukt *make* things happen, but simply to have it *suggest* ideas to people, who accept the idea and genuinely believe in it - humanity is a willing pawn in its own destruction. This the CoT aid the Four Horsemen by spreading ideas such as the superiority of the Aryan race, that AZT doesn't help unborn babies, that unrestrained capitalism is evil/good and so on etc etc. We will destroy ourselves in the long run, the CoT provides the prompt cards. They do this as puppets of Big N and as such will stand to benefit from his pleasure at the fall of humanity (which is presumably the task set for him by azathoth), though N's promises are probably not the most reliable of things (though in game terms all that matters is that the culy leaders believe in their imminent godhood). I'd be very interested to hear others thoughts on the CoT, which I reckon could be far more interesting than any of the bodies presented fully in DG or Countdown. TTFN Steve -- Stephen Allison sallison@netcomuk.co.uk From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of a hyperintelligent shade of blue [ilikemonkeys@geocities.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Domains and Hierarchies All this recent discussion of domains and multidimensional entities and the workings of the Elder sign parallels some of my own thoughts on the Mythos universe. The rabid little taxonomist in me created an "evolutionary chart" of mythos entities, reasoning that if the GOO were simply aliens, then maybe any race could become an Old One, and the ones we've got were simply there first. The hierarchy has four levels, with two tiers each. And just because an entity is on a low point of the scale doesn't mean an entity is weak. That cosmic Eihort, as far as I can tell, shows up on the bottom tier. Anyway... The First Stage: The "one dimensional" At this level, an entity only exists in one domain (to use the nomenclature we've picked up on the list). They may have some sense of other realms, and may even have limited access to one or another, but their existence is purely 'set' in one. First Tier entities are /entirely/ of one domain, and thus the only ones we're going to see are those whose domain is that which we exist in. Elder Things, Yithians, and Cthonians are probably the best example of this. These lads may all become powerful, but they do it with 'pure science'. Elder Signs are simply pretty artwork to these guys. Second Tier are those with access to another domain, but /as/ another domain. Humans and Ghouls, with their access to the Dreamlands, and possibly Deep Ones fall into this tier. Given time, these guys might bump up into the second stage. Ghouls actually seem to nearly second stagers, since the Dreamlands is becoming, if not already, just one more set of tunnels. The Second Stage: multi-dimensional. Entities at this stage exist in one or more domains simultaneously. First tier entities are more less 'two dimensional'. Gnoph-Keh with their "cold domain" metabolisms would be the best examples of this. Second tier are much more common. Their forms extend into any number of domains all higgeldy-piggeldy. These entities are easily classed because their "non-terrene" natures tend to make them immune to any number of things. Mi-Go, Dark Young, and Star Spawn all exist firmly in this stage. These are likely to be heartily affected by Elder Signs. The Third Stage: Great Old Ones Not all GOO, of course, since entities like that jellied thug Eihort doesn't seem to be much in the way of multidimensional... But most GOO fit in this stage, hence the name. A first tier GOO simply exists in enough domains to give it the sort of power your run of the mill Great Old One has. Ithaqua would be a first tier GOO - he fucks shit up real good, but he's really a one trick pony. Canon Tsathoggua is also first tier. The second tier GOO have accumulated enough cosmic chutzpah that they begin to effect reality with their internal, mental landscapes. Cthulhu's dreams spreading nihilism and the dark melancholy of the crushing depths, Hastur's entropic assault, and my Tsathoggua Mythos' Tsathoggua's 'universe of one' mindset all show what a second tier entity does to the world around it. These guys actually warp domains around them. Leading into stage four... The Fourth Stage: The Outer Gods At this level, the entity has effectively /become/ a domain. Tier One outer gods are the nameless, mindless courtier of Azathoth, existing but not much else. a Tier Two Outer God is quite possibly sentient (but not necessarily) and can be said to have an agenda: the furtherance of their domain , or Tier Two OGs actually embody multiple domains... At this level speculation is somewhat moot, since by their very nature, Outer Gods break the rules, change the rules, and quitely simply are /beyond/ rules... Anyway, these were just the thoughts of a guy who instinctively groups and classes everything. Hopefully it'll prove to be useful to the discussion... longest delurk for me, ever! Ian "I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine." -- Frank Zappa From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Color In a message dated 5/6/00 7:02:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wtimmins@hotmail.com writes: << Evidence would be as follows: Prolonged exposure to an Elder Sign should cause every human and life form to suffer mild effects, of some sort. Perhaps listlessness and other subjective data that can be corrolated. Potentially, very prolonged exposure might result in death, depending on how vital these other-domain microbes are. This isn't commonly noticed because very very few lifeforms have been exposed to elder signs for any length of time. >> Why do I feel this needs inclusion in the cell phone\static-shock\powerline thread? For the first time in human history we are bombarding our environment with energies of our own manufacture. We are harnessing wave phenomena for our own uses, and all the initial lab tests show no effect on human beings, just as predicted by what we 'know' about our physiology. But then there are those damn tumors. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 3:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Domains and Hierarchies ----- Original Message ----- From: a hyperintelligent shade of blue > All this recent discussion of domains and multidimensional entities > and the workings of the Elder sign parallels some of my own thoughts on > the Mythos universe. The rabid little taxonomist in me created an > "evolutionary > chart" of mythos entities, reasoning that if the GOO were simply aliens, then > maybe any race could become an Old One, and the ones we've got were simply > there first. You should delurk more often. This sounds good - though - as always - the reality is likely to be even more complex and mixed up. But it's a useful starting point. One very basic point, though - Domains aren't everything. We may have an insight here, but that doesn't mean we can jam all the wierdness of the Mythos into it. Two things, as I see it, that Domains, at least Domains as I have sketched them out, don't explain 1) Consciousness and the Dreamlands. Other-Domain matter is simply matter. There is no more "reason" for it to generate Consciousness, however complex its configuration, than Brihatic matter. The ancient problem of "qualia" remains, and the Dreamlands and HASTUR are as big an unknown as ever. 2) There is an UR-Universe in which our Universe is just one bubble. Remember Domains are part of our Universe, of _our_ space-time bubble. We know that the "greater" Ur-Universe in which AZATHOTH and the Outer Gods exist (?) continually generates new Universes: they are spontaneous quantum fluctuations in the Ur-vacuum. Each of these Universes will have its own set of meta-laws, its own set of Domains, perhaps (or something else entirely) - and all will be different. > The Fourth Stage: The Outer Gods > At this level, the entity has effectively /become/ a domain. I'm not sure what that means: as I said, I think of the various Domains as being subsets of the matter in _this_ Universe. If you go outside this Universe, as the Elder Gods do - it all gets wierder. This is the hierarchy as I would see it Brihatic entities - DO, Elder Race, etc Other-Domain /Cross-Domain entities - Mi-Go, etc Other-Universe entities - Tsathoggua? Cthulhu? Ur-Universe entities. - Elder Gods With the Dreamlands and HASTUR at right angles to all this. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:07 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Gladiator(s) A non-lurker actually solicited my review, but suffice to say I loved it. Your mileage may vary and watching film is an interactive experience. You might not see the same film I did. Instead, let me talk about Gladiators. IMHO, The Gladiator deserves to be in the Major Arcana. I'll have to look closer because he might be wearing his helmet to conceal his features. The Hierophant used to be the Popess, so it's tricky. In my Tarot and pantheon, the Gladiator is associated with Luck. But he occupies a position between the Gambler (depending on the favor of the Beyond) and the Magician trying to master the elements to do his bidding. The institution of gladiator sports has many themes. The crowd gambles on the outcome, the players bet their lives on a) their abilities and b) the will of the audience. How many other slave careers offered the possibility of freedom or profiting from your own labor? It was like a Bread&Circuses Lottery, with a champion (read exceptionally profitable) Gladiator being made a free agent by acclamation. Personal note: I use a bokken because Musashi didn't need an edge, and it's a wooden sword, the symbol of a freed Gladiator. I make my own mythology and symbolism as I go. Got a 486 chip in my mojo bag, next to the flint arrowhead. Gambling is the primal religion of mankind. That's why it defies legislation. Some Stat-Monkey sniffs and bemoans the stupid stupid people who just can't see the odds are against them. Fools. Fuzzy thinkers. Never tell me the odds. I respond, "Show me another 1$ investment that offers the *possibility* of getting me my Fuck You Money in one fell swoop?" Silly me, I should stop this superstitious and fuzzy-headed thinking and get back to day trading. Now the stock market, there's some safe predictable investing with a guaranteed payoff. Arbitrage? "First, take a shitload of money. Invest in another version of a shitload of money. Keep the difference, minus parasite fees." Now there's a sure thing, and good for civilization, too. The Gladiator, while performing for the crowd and living at their pleasure, is nonetheless the embodiment of Clarissa Starling's statement in "Hannibal'. "The world will not be this way within the reach of my arm." Sounds like the Code of the Cowboys, doesn't it? "The world will not be this way within the reach of my arm." If the person that declares that feels the burden of nobless oblige, they are a Hero, and the true nobility that bloodlines cannot provide. In my prole opinion. If the person that declares that has no regard for how this brave new world they are shaping to their liking effects anyone else, they are the stuff of History. Including Current Events. Unlike the Emperor, who is buttressed by an army, the Gladiator's fate is in the hands of the crowd as well as his own. Why not? He's one of us. Think of Hulk Hogan's arm reaching out of an imminent pin to beseech the crowd. He is rewarded by an infusion of POW that revitalizes him like Popeye with spinach. Take that Billion Dollar Man. Here's the chair back Big Boss Man, have some of your pepper spray. Hot enough for ya, Iron Shiek? Where's that lawyer\manager who stabbed me in the ass from outside the ropes? He's going *down*. What was the novel that inspired the creators of Superman? 'Gladiator', by Philip Wylie. And now you know why the leader of the Shi'ar Praetorian Guard is named Gladiator, with his invulnerability and capacity for interstellar flight and hyperspeed and hyperstrength and heat vision. He's the noblest of the Guards, too. Think of the most stereotypical circus tune that comes to mind. All brass and flash. It's called "Entrance Of The Gladiators'. Circus folk know their roots, that's why so many are Masons. However, I can think of only one class of clown that doesn't give me the creeps. The rodeo clown, distracting the bull to save the fallen rider. Yippy ki yay, motherfucker! I don't think afficianados of the corrida understand why I cheer for the bull. The odds are against him, that's why I identify with the bull. I don't hate the matador, but I'd respect him more if he dispensed with the picadors and posse and met the bull Minoan style. Now *that's* bullfighting. Who says little girls don't have balls? And Spartacus? There isn't much of a contemporary written record. Analysis of the 'Spartacus incident' was frowned upon by the new status quo vadis. Make no mistake, the brief life of Spartacus gave the equestrian class more vapors than a Deep South debutante contemplating Nat Turner. Not you Baldricus, you're one of the good ones and know your place. Ever notice how many members of Star Chambers and Study Groups and well-manicured chastisers of Cigarette Smokers and Overseers are seen in their stables, or avuncularly watching a virginal family member at her riding lessons? The equestrian class. Cowboys all have horses. And their ranch is their castle. That's why they have guns; to keep it that way. Because you can't trust those landed inbred fuckers back East. That's why we headed West. Shit, they tried to keep us from voting unless we were landlords. Fuck them and the thoroughbred they rode in on. My big-assed quarter horse will kick that inbred supermodel's buns of steel anyday. Just get your English-saddled ass within the reach of my arm you silver-spooned Trustee. The movie 'Spartacus'. Oh yes. Kirk Douglas effectively broke the Blacklist when he gave Dalton Trumbo screen credit for his screenplay. Powerful people twisted arms to get seconds of film removed. The seconds that showed the maps of Spartacus' victories over the Roman Legions. Powerful people twisted arms to get new narration added. Like the stuff at the beginning about a man who 'dreamed' of an end to Rome that would have to wait for an officially recognized Messiah(tm), a man who 'dreamed' of an end to slavery before Massa Lincoln gave it us 2000 years later. Powerful (anonymous) people chipped away at dialogue and narration to change the entire intent and message of the film, according to the screenwriter. The producer, star, director and screenwriter appealed the draconian studio decisions. They were denied. Kubrick would not list 'Spartacus' as one of his films, and wouldn't discuss it beyond some surface anecdotes about the filming. Kubrick knew how to cut his losses, unlike Welles. He went to England to film 'Lolita' his way. Then he stayed as an expatriot, the Bronx Jewish kid forever alien on the other side of the globe from Hollywood. He was quirky all right. A real enigma, ya know? You know those cranky creative types, all neuroses and poor social skills. Sonovabitch can't come here for an important meeting to discuss our input to his film because he's *afraid to fly*. Fucking artists. Stanley Kubrick got his pilot's license before he was 20. The Spartacus conspiracy is discussed in loving detail at http://us.imdb.com/Reviews/39/3928 ObDG: MKULTRA activity? The Cult of Transcendence? Are The Orphans training studio executives as well as editors? >From Roger Ebert's Chicago Sun-Times review of the restored Spartacus 05/03/1991 <> In 'Gladiator', Derek Jacoby plays Gracchus. Later, he puts on a few pounds and turns into Charles Laughton to appear in 'Spartacus'. 'Gladiator' is the prelude to the director's cut of 'Spartacus'. Opening on Cinco de Mayo, the fifth day of the fifth month of the Year Zero. Cinco de Mayo. "Along the way to Mexico City, The French army encountered some strong resistance at the Mexican forts of Loreto and Guadalupe. Lead by General Ignacio Zaragoza Seguin, a small, poorly armed militia of about 4,500 were able to stop and defeat a well outfitted French army of 6,500 soldiers. The victory was a glorious moment for Mexican patriots and is the cause for the historical date's celebration." Well, celebrating any defeat of a French army, numerous as they are, is alright by me. ;-P Viva La Raza! And fuck you equestrians and the chevaliers you came with. I'll carve a Z in your ass so fast you'll forget your tee time at the restricted country club. Just get within the reach of my arm. Hey! Settle down. I'm just kidding. Can't you hear the circus music? Can't you see the rodeo clowns? It's all a goof. "Go back to sleep America, we live in a classless society. Look, a new season of American Gladiators!" The Reverend Bill Hicks Mark McFadden Citizen McFadden, given the franchise due to his voluntary service in the Reman Sky Legion (where he won the Midddleweight Golden Cestus in the High Fleet Pankrateon Championship), is now a 'gentleman' terraformer with a magnificent view of the Cydonian Monument. Mars was recently renamed Jesus after the philosopher-poet who inspired the Wolf Republic, the gentle dissenters who saved the dream. When he isn't taking up more than his share of bandwidth, he enjoys vigorous walks with his Alpha pair, Parnell and Eleanor. His assistants; Anne, Miriam and Dorcas, run the place. They insist that that is all they do. He just acts cranky and pays the bills. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:38 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Look what the cat dragged in.... Greetings. Looks like we are not the only ones endlessly debating CoC/WoD crossovers and adaptations. Delta Green fans will be happy to know that a Fleabag sanctioned site is currently printing lots of stuff to help WoD-ers adapt HPL's work to their angs-ridden games. The stuff can be found here http://www.nocturnis.net/genwod/ I'm pretty sure you'll love the bits about the Tcho-tchos and the Ghouls, parts of which are taken directly from Delta Green material. What do you gentlemen (and ladies) say? Should we point these people towards the Ice Cave for them to learn something new? Check them out and think it over. Happy reading! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:26 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Color ----- Original Message ----- From: William Timmins > Anyhow, consider: magic, power, and life forms. Perhaps other-domain > microbes are VERY common on earth, perhaps all life is infested with a thin > layer of other-microbes? Perhaps not *quite* that common - the "problem" being that if it was common, we should see more Briahtic living things making extensive use of it: Physics is iffy: biology is not. It's an odd fact that the "pure, fundamental" science of Physics makes very uncertain predictions, while the endlessly recomplicationg science of Biology makes very simple ones. And there is one simple rule that all life must follow, from bacterium to GOO: It is; LIFE TAKES *EVERY* PATH AVAILABLE If Briahtic life was competent at exploiting cross-domain effects we would have noticed. But we simply don't see many ordinary living things getting energy or information this way. Unless - Perhaps you are right and there are whole areas of "Briahtic" life which depend on cross-domain effects? But our biology is not quantitative enough to parse these effects out? To be honest, this thought is so unsettling I find it hard to face. Have we simply been ignoring the evidence? At least we can be open to it in fututre. ---- **** ---- Anyway: As a source of *magic*, I think you are spot on. As I am sure you are aware, all traditional "magic" is based on negociations with "personalities" of some sort - demons, angels, spirits. It is not a "technology" to be manipulated: it is a series of alliances to be exploited. The obvious suggestion is that magicians, shamen &c have (at least in some cases) been interacting with intelligent other-domain entities. And indeed, these entities need not be intelligent. Perhaps our "mechanical technology" fixation is a problem in dealing with Mythos magic? We come to it through the prism of our own society & its technology - one based on manipulating dead, inert, matter. We insist that it is a machine, a formula, not a communication. Possibly if we used the "analogy" of domesticating an animal or growing a crop - or indeed if we used biotechnology, and so came to it with the analogy of "tailoring a species for use" - we might find it far more understandable? Time to learn a little humility and adopt the methods that work! . > The division of the universe into loosely interacting domains may, itself, > be another human conceit or illusion, the illusion of separation. The desire > to say 'well, things happened this way HERE.' Perhaps nothing in our world > stands outside of the others, that the mythos breathes in our every cell and > thought. > Yes indeed. I see our whole Universe embodying symmetries which make the matter and radiation in each Domain analagous to the "facets" of a multidimensional jewel. In the very early periods of the Universe the Domains had not separated out: spontaneous symmetry breaking split them out as the Universe expanded and cooled, and they "froze" in the current configuration. Other Universes should "crystallise" in different ways - each separate Universe-atom having its own set of Domains. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joseph Camp [alphonse@delta-green.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 7:39 AM To: dgrpg Subject: Re: DG: Cult of Transcendence >The CoT is in development limbo after the Pagan staff looked at Greg >Stolze's manuscript and decided that it sucked the cheese of a thousand >dead cows. Removing the hyperbolic MiB filter, the truth is more along the lines of CoT being an early project that was on the sidelines during the development and publication of DG and DG:CD, and now needs to be brought in line with the way the books have been finalized. It's sort of a retrofitting process. be seeing you, Alphonse From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 7:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 Greetings. It's evidently been a while since the Man in Black last crucified someone. He therefore writes.... >I doubt this very much. The reason why you hammer the nine inch nails into >the forearm between the radius and the ulna is to support the body. This >results in the skeleton hanging there long after the flesh has rotted >away. Where did you see this one, in Conan the Barbarian? The idea is not to have a beautiful corpse for show, but to make the victim last longer. the crucified position is one tht causes lung collapse after a while. But as long as the legs support you (and to make sure that it's not _too_ long, after a while they just break the legs) you hang there and are alive, for all to see. Nailing the palms of the hands - like in much classic iconography - is just unpractical: teh Nail can rip through the hand and the guy there falls down - unpleasant. But the purpose is to support the body for much a shorter time than the one required to leave a skeleton. >That is the proper Roman fashion. This shroud crap sounds like the >usual idiocy that emanates from the morons in Turin. Hey, Man.... we still have the best in the fireld as far as crucifiction goes. Out there in the States you're just amateurs! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 6:44 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Daikaiju (was Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking....) Greetings. Something in the MiB's latest reminded me again of an interesting source for Endtimers out there.... > Of course, there is that >Godzilla anomaly we all know and love. GOJIRA~! cue Japanese proles >running and screaming in terror. AH! that's better than Sarin gas or >Anthrax to get the Japanese excited. Check out Dan Brereton's 'Giantkiller' miniseries from DC Comics. I admit I purchased a copy of teh one-volume Italian edition for the artwork alone, but the story is - in it's over-the-top quality - quite amusing. I mean: tainted land, local catastrophe, secret Government experiments, Daikaiju galore, samurai swords forged from demon's teeth.... what else do you need? Incidentally - a while back the Strange Aeons list discussed the possibility of using Godzilla & Co. in CoC games (is he stronger than Cthulhu?) etcetera. A bit pulpy, but your mileage might vary. A DG twist could on the other hand be dreamed up. So - what if the next Aum Shinrikio plot to wipe out Tokyo consists in waking up the big bad monster sleeping in Fuji-san? What if instead of the expected that-looks-just-like-a-bloke-in-a-rubber-suit critter they get a very pissed off Shudde-class Cthonian? And no hope of getting Gamera to save the day? This would be great occasion for resurrecting Projec:AHAB and it's fearless (bordering on the suicidal insane) team of fearless Cthonian hunters. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm