From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 6:03 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Cult of Transcendence On Sat, 6 May 2000 14:26:53 -0700 Steve wrote: >I'm curious if anyone has any info on the Cult of Transcendence. As I'm sure many will reply to tell you, the info in the DG book is pretty much all there is for now. Pagan occasionally updates us on how the huge Cult of Transcendence book is coming along, but when or even if the book will ever appear is still up in the air. Perhaps this will trigger another update. And note to Pagan, et al: If you write it, we will buy it! Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 6:13 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Elder Sign On Fri, 05 May 2000 12:01:08 -0400 Daniel Harms wrote: >If this helps, in the Chaosium supplement CENSORED, the Elder Sign >is very powerful against Deep Ones. Not only can it ward a door, but >one can protects an entire house. It works against hybrids almost as well. Now *that's* interesting, as it seems to contradict the main book, which states that the Elder Sign merely protects the stuff it directly covers, thus taking the wind out of the sails of anyone trying to wear it like a cross. And also making it pretty useless in most situations, which I thought unjust. In fact, I've always thought that little comment came across like one of those spiteful "rules that exist just to jerk the players' chains." Granted, we don't want to see players running around using Elder Signs like crosses against vampires, but I always wanted to handle it in a more consistant way. Of course, we could get into how it can ward a single, connected structure, but not individual beings or groups of beings... hmm. Well, perhaps the Glove Cleaner's theories have the answer--I've had no time to do more than skim them so far. Looks very interesting. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 6:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Cult of Transcendence On Sun, 7 May 2000, Steve Allison wrote: > Bear in mind that in my game ultimately the CoT will triumph (the stars are > on their side, after all) and so I don't really want the PCs yomping over to > Sweden and destrying the cult. In fact I personally think the cult > shouldn't really be located in one geographical locale, but distributed over > the globe, making it much harder to deal with. But the secret masters would need a place to meet and communicate with each other. Another feeble rationale for centering the Cult in Stockholm is the presence of some uber-artifact (perhaps buried) that is difficult and dangerous to move. One of the powers of this artifact might be to facilitate magical communication among the Secret Masters. This would be done by a regularly repeated ritual, forcing the cult leaders to return to the artifact every so often in order to devote some POW and have rilly kewl visions of AZATHOTH. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:59 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: DGML endures `yuck factor' On Sat, 6 May 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > << The Man in Black is : not gonna suck out the Gerbil. NO WAY! >> > > Well would you at least do me a favor and have a look to see how it's doing? > Yeah, I guess it would be dark in there. > So light a match. > > Whoops. "Armageddon!" Cough! Wheeeze! At long last I have discovered the secret of the Gerbil cannon. Thanks, your majesty. The Man in Black is : blacker than black. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) On Sat, 6 May 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Bagging chicken feet? I'm seeing you holding a burlap sack under big pipe as > it gushed chicken feet. You swing it aside and stitch up the top, then sling > it over your shoulder like a stevedore and take it to the freezer. No? I was hanging with the Coyote, when Foghorn Leghorn came in and read this email. I hope your Lizard-Fu is good, cause left in a huff. He had his "fanny-whacker" 2"x4" with him. I didn't check if it was treated lumber or not. It did have a nail sticking out of it, a rusty one. The Man in Black is : goin' away, he bothah's him. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Aaaaaahhhhhh!!!! Veterans of my 'evil clown' musings and readers of my Whole Earth Enterprises rants will know why this page is extra special to me. http://www.happyclown.com/mainmenu.html Am I picking up this stuff through my fillings or what? Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:46 AM To: Delta Green Subject: Re: DG: Cult of Transcendence On Sat, 6 May 2000, Steve and Leslie Dustin wrote: > I'm curious if anyone has any info on the Cult of Transcendence. Its barely > mentioned in the main Delta Green books, but I'm considering using it as a > main rational behind a lot of mythos activity in a DG campaign I'm going to > ramp up on soon. For now, the players won't run across it at all, but if > they dig deep enough they'll find it to be the main mover and shaker in the > campaign, using even MJ-12 and maybe the Fate as pawns. Anywhere I can find > more info would be much appreciated. I'm tempted to smack this down just out of sheer unadulterated spite, but this post actually brings something that should be included in the FAQ but has been overlooked. The Camel of Turin needs to take note of this. The CoT is in development limbo after the Pagan staff looked at Greg Stolze's manuscript and decided that it sucked the cheese of a thousand dead cows. Truly, it must have been radiating an visceral stench of palpable nauseating lameness that surely must have brought an end to any further Pagan-Stolze contact. Possibly, the Pagan crew have taken out a contract on Stolze's life in order to prevent the possibility that a manuscript similar to CoT might be published by another company. But if you want something along thiose lines, try GURPS Voodoo and especially GURPS Illuminati. I understand that the Illuminati are the inspiration for the Swedish Meatballs. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:32 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 On Sat, 6 May 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > Back on the Shroud of Turin thread - if I recall the book I read back in the > 80's, the Shroud "fans" claim that the nails were driven between the small > bones that make up the wrist. There is a hole or gap that a large nerve > goes through, the one that controls the thumb. In a properly done > Crucifiction, this is the hole the nail is put through. The nerve is > crushed and the thumb snaps across the palm. > > Dunno if it's true, but it's a nice nasty detail . . . I doubt this very much. The reason why you hammer the nine inch nails into the forearm between the radius and the ulna is to support the body. This results in the skeleton hanging there long after the flesh has rotted away. That is the proper Roman fashion. This shroud crap sounds like the usual idiocy that emanates from the morons in Turin. Must be something in the chocolate. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:19 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Perhaps Nuking Deep one cities is a BAD THING. On Sat, 6 May 2000, Davide Mana wrote: > . c . extinct volcano is a reasonable concept - and a lot of fine examples > can be found in Hawaii. You are unaware of PROJECT : KUNELOA~! The lava shall flow ONCE MORE! > Wrong, sorry. > To the countrary, most ephemeral islands (here today, gone tomorrow) are of > a volcanic nature - go ask Icelanders for more anecdotes on the subject. Hmm... > >I think R'yleh is one of those floating things Davide mentioned. This > >explains it's indeterminate location. The variation in density causing it > >to surface and submerge could then easily be tied to the position of the > >stars, interstellar ley lines forming the constellations, the transmission > >of cultist POW and so on and so forth. > > Thanks for the appreciation. > > I generally prefer to have R'lyeh on a local bathimetric anomaly (a > seamount, a drowned patch reef or atoil) and the whole (basement plus city > plus Cthulhu) gets the yo-yo treatment thanks to a strategically placed fault. > The model poses lots of quirky geodynamical problems, but thankfully I am > the geologist in my team ;> I don't like the fixed location that this (granted more realistic) model presents. I figure we'd have found it by now, just from the "Bermuda Triangle" effect of missing boats or whatever. Of course, there is that Godzilla anomaly we all know and love. GOJIRA~! cue Japanese proles running and screaming in terror. AH! that's better than Sarin gas or Anthrax to get the Japanese excited. But to expand on my floating R'yleh concept, I can easily see it phasing through the seabottom and anchoring itself to earthly matter during certain astrologically significant times. This giant space mountain could then combine the best aspects of both our insane insights. "Mean WHOOOOOO~! Gene, this limosine ridin', jet flyin', high rollin', sonovagun is gonna party all night and party a little longer. And all the girls are lined up to ride Space Mountain Alllll night long WHOOOO~!" --The Nature Boy Ric Flair The Man in Black is : an E-ticket ride to paradise. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Cult of Transcendence I've been meaning to add a section in my Endtimes stuff about the Cult, but am loathe for several reasons... One, it's such a quiet, big conspiracy that it mainly serves as a comment for Keepers. It's not as useful as other info that more directly impacts PCs. Two, I just know that 3 months after I write it, Pagan will come out with a kick ass supplement that will make my stuff inapplicable. ;) Anyhow, my view of the CoT is something along the lines of the conspiracy view of the Masons, communicated through the Trilaterla Commission, the german conspiracy group that begins with B (can't remember the name... Birkensomething? Damn), and so on. Basically, like Lizard's previous message, the 'equestrian class' of hollywood and the international bankers have several Shub and big N cult inflhuences woven through them. Picture pleasant parties in Geneva with Stephen Alzis, Hillary Clinton, and Michael Eisner chatting over champagne about the inapplicability of nationalism and personal property in the next century. Picture wild orgies in the Hamptons, featuring anyone who is anyone. Genuine Pickman art on the walls. Special secret service available to clean up any unpleasantness, such as eviscerated male and female prostitutes. -=Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:33 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Aaaaaahhhhhh!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: > Veterans of my 'evil clown' musings and readers of my Whole Earth > Enterprises rants will know why this page is extra special to me. > http://www.happyclown.com/mainmenu.html > Am I picking up this stuff through my fillings or what? No, no, no. You are _making it happen_ So please be careful. But not too careful. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Elder Sign ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Farnell >Well, perhaps the Glove Cleaner's theories have the answer--I've had >no time to do more than skim them so far. Looks very interesting. > Dave > Hey, I'm a *thinker*. You won't find anything *useful* in all this rambling. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cult of Transcendence In a message dated 5/7/00 4:07:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, superdave@disinfo.net writes: << As I'm sure many will reply to tell you, the info in the DG book is pretty much all there is for now. Pagan occasionally updates us on how the huge Cult of Transcendence book is coming along, but when or even if the book will ever appear is still up in the air. Perhaps this will trigger another update. >> The Pagans cannot discuss the Cult of Transcendence due to the non-disclosure agreement that was a requirement for the cessation of legal harassment. If you thought Scientology was litigious..... Mark McFadden I read about it on HappyClown.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Cult of Transcendence In a message dated 5/7/00 4:11:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Another feeble rationale for centering the Cult in Stockholm is the presence of some uber-artifact (perhaps buried) that is difficult and dangerous to move. >> Like that big honkin' tree at Uppsala? I thought being 'hung like a horse' was a good thing until I read about that. Mark McFadden Ba dum ching. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Elder Sign In a message dated 5/7/00 4:18:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, superdave@disinfo.net writes: << Now *that's* interesting, as it seems to contradict the main book, which states that the Elder Sign merely protects the stuff it directly covers, thus taking the wind out of the sails of anyone trying to wear it like a cross. >> Is there necessarily only one 'Elder Sign'? Mark McFadden "Signs signs everywhere the signs Blocking the scenery, raping my mind Do this! Don't do that! Can't you read the Sign?" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 9:53 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Conspiracy Slips Up At 09:33 AM 5/6/00 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 4 May 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: >Have you been paying attention? Taking notes? Silly boy, Rover is a >Shoggoth. My humblest apologies... I just hate to see his face squished up against it then... Hammer Into Anvil... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:00 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: That FAQ affair Good Evening. Perhaps the FAQ should inform any newbie about the DGML NPC Depot! One of the great things Signore Mana provides us with. And personally I found this a good thing to get more information about my fellow listmembers. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: The Man in Black > Crucifiction, this is the hole the nail is put through. The nerve is > > crushed and the thumb snaps across the palm. > > > > Dunno if it's true, but it's a nice nasty detail . . . > > I doubt this very much. The reason why you hammer the nine inch nails into > the forearm between the radius and the ulna is to support the body. Yr probably right - this was a Catholic religious library you know how reliable that would be. But just to clarify - this method was supposed to be as good at supporting the body as hammering nails between the radius and ulna. The point they thought the nail went in was, more or less, beneath the base of the thumb. The nail is still surrounded and firmly held by bone: it can't "rip out" like it would if it was in the palm: but the cruxifixee gets 50% of his body weight bearing on a crushed, major, nerve, the medial nerve. There's a wonderfully sick web-site on it at http://www.kgnet.com/jesus/index.html (Apologies to Christians on this list) The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re:DG: Cult of Transcendence ----- Original Message ----- From: William Timmins > Picture pleasant parties in Geneva with Stephen Alzis, Hillary Clinton, and > Michael Eisner chatting over champagne about the inapplicability of > nationalism and personal property in the next century. Hilary Clinton. Yeah. You think this is a joke? You think you are making it up? She really believes in it too. She thinks she is, like, doing good. No-one works harder than an idealistic woman, but no other kind of human being is blinder. Men never get that single minded. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:32 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Very best of Easter 2000 In a message dated 5/7/00 5:08:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << Hey, Man.... we still have the best in the fireld as far as crucifiction goes. Out there in the States you're just amateurs! >> Yeah, but we got lynchin' down pat. Also, them Injuns could get purty cre-ative with them red ants and wet leather and hanging ya up by yer nipples, although I hear they volunteer fer that one if you can believe it. Damn savages. They say life is cheap south of the Rio Grande, but that Bierce fella was tellin' me ol' Pancho Villa didn't think it was cheap enough. He'd line up a buncha landlords or whoever was pissin' him off so much and shoot through the ear of the fella at the end and see how many he could get with one bullet. That Pancho was a heller, I recollect one time when ol' George Patton, you remember George he was the one with the ivory-handled sidearm used to slap the troops around when they were scared? Anyhow, we were serving under 'ol Nigger Jack Pershing, this was after he was commanding white troops but the name sort of stuck? Anyways, we had to cross the border to take ol' Pancho to task over messin' with Texas and we saw some things that would curl your toes. Thirsty kinda day innit? Why thank you, I think I will. Aaaaahhh. Where was I? Mark McFadden Does not rent pigs. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:45 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. -----Original Message----- From: The Man in Black To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 06 May 2000 13:45 Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. >On Wed, 3 May 2000, Louise Hayes wrote: > >> Well, there's etiquette and there's etiquette. After all, we're not inviting >> anyone to dinner are we? (Hell, I don't even know any DG players in the >> area...) But that said, there is still the need for good manners. Without >> those you quickly find that you have no friends, no life... > >I have found in my limited experience that emphasis on manners over >substance is usually directly related to, and breeds, hypocrisy and what >that lizard guy calls modern management. I prefer to abandon the facade >and reveal all the ugly tru7h beneath. This saves time and avoids any >confusion. I have found many who agree with me in principle, but lack the >courage of their convictions. This is fine, I've swallowed shit with a >smile before, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. > Who said anything about emphasising manners over substance? I certainly did not. There is, I grant some truth in what you say, but it is not the whole truth. Nor can it be used as an excuse for being rude, ill-mannered and unnecessarily discourteous. >By presenting the FAQ in an informal, "Gonzo Journalism" style, I feel >that we will encourage freedom of expression among those hordes of newbie >scum that even now quake in terror that someone might actually insult or >otherwise take notice of them. Also, it's fun. > You may enjoy, others may not. -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Louise Hayes [Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 9:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Ewing To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: 06 May 2000 16:58 Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) >Louise Hayes wrote: >> > >> Suckiest job? I have student friends who gripe about >> MacDonalds/restaurants/etc... > Sorry. >But this is the *exact* kind of sucky job we have no interest in >hearing, since it has 0 DG relevance. > >> I just go, "I bagged chicken feet. For two summers..." >> >> Wins everytime. > >Well, poultry slaughter is sucky, all right, but you fail to provide any >details that would help fellow keepers flesh this out. What were the >facilities like? Especially odious management? Were you issued >protective gear? Co-wokers odd? Noisy job? How were the chicken feet >delivered to you, and how many went in a bag? Who are the end-users of >bags of chicken feet? > >See what I'm after here? > I do and again, sorry. The actual job entailed sorting through chicken feet that came down a conveyor belt. These had been washed in hot water to remove the very outer layer of skin. You would check the condition of the feet for growths, injuries and the like, before bagging it. It would be frozen and then shipped to Hong Kong for consumption there. There about 5 kilos to one bag and three bags to one box. Protective gear? Hard hat, hair net, thick gloves and wellington boots. It was a cold, damp environment. It was also fairly noisy, above which you could the sound of awful local radio. Other jobs in the area included checking and cleaning chicken's gizzards, kidneys and hearts - these went into cat food, I think. More interesting was what happened to the carcasses of the chickens after _every_ scrap of meat was shawn. They were delivered to our area in huge vats and then put through an industrial mincer (which was thoroughly cleaned down every day) to the concistency of toothpaste. This went into very heavy trays for freezing - used in dogfood eventually. I always thought that this mincer was one way to get rid of human remains - it was thoroughly cleaned daily and who knows what happens on the nightshift? This is the problem I had with the episode of the X-Files set in a meat processing factory (which aired at the time I was working at the factory) - corpses could have been got rid of far quicker and easier and without leaving as much evidence as dumping them in the river. A good meat processing factory will find any use for all of the birds that are brought in... Outside the factory, it stank of slightly off meat - there was at least one tank of chicken's blood out the back. In the summer it was awful for the local villagers. The village was remote, more of a domirtory for white collar workers in nearby towns. Further, immediately above the village to the South is a hill that rises out of nowhere, before gently sloping away to the South. On the hill top there is at least one neolithic site of interest and on the slope to the South is the site of a Roman villa. Odd workers? No - more ill educated, barely high school graduates and the like. You would be something of an outcaste if you did not watch soaps, football or read the tabloid press. Hope that helps. -- Pookie (Pookie@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk) "Don't take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential Oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday." - Tlg'manh, Unspeakable Oath 14/15 See http://www.chorazin.org.uk/pookie/ for GURPS: Jorune, Luther Arkwright, 2300AD, Rally Cry!, Strikeforce Morituri, Xenozoic Tales & Black Kiss From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:53 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Look what the cat dragged in.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana Delta Green fans will be happy to know that a Fleabag sanctioned site is > currently printing lots of stuff to help WoD-ers adapt HPL's work to their > angs-ridden games. > Can't say much about the gaming aspect: but the essay on HPL and his writings was OK. The Glove Cleaner > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Out of the closet (was Re: FAQ Urgency) ----- Original Message ----- From: Louise Hayes > > The actual job entailed sorting through chicken feet that came down a > conveyor belt. These had been washed in hot water to remove the very outer > layer of skin. You would check the condition of the feet for growths, > injuries and the like, before bagging it. It would be frozen and then > shipped to Hong Kong for consumption there. There about 5 kilos to one bag > and three bags to one box. > Once a story called "The Hauler-In Suzie M" arrived in my slushpile. That was one hell of a good SF story. About working in an abbatoir. They had a whole world, a whole culture, in there: lived there, died there. The "Hauler-in" were beast handlers who took bulls or horses that had to be slaughtered in particular ways, kosher or medical or whatever: they pulled them into the harnesses where they were held for slaughter. Using metal poles, clawed levers, whatever. They were the heroes, the Gladiators. Yeah, the Smell. They lost their sense of smell at aboiut three years old. After the first beast, you got your leg muscles removed & the muscles of the Beast grafted in. That was your status, your power. Suzie M was the first woman to do it. Her first Handling was a big red bull. ---- **** ---- Didn't those chicken feet tell you anything? Didn't they join up in snowflake fractal spiderleg batwing patterns and make trees and words and snakes and beg you to help them? Didn't they ask you to be their mummy? Didn't they do it i n s i d e y o u r h e a d ?? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:50 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. In a message dated 5/7/00 9:46:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Pandora@banshee-lair.freeserve.co.uk writes: << Who said anything about emphasising manners over substance? I certainly did not. There is, I grant some truth in what you say, but it is not the whole truth. Nor can it be used as an excuse for being rude, ill-mannered and unnecessarily discourteous.>> You didn't have to say anything Strident-monkey, your 'tude screams it to the rooftops. And there is nothing unnecessary about his discourtesy, as you are in the process of proving. << >By presenting the FAQ in an informal, "Gonzo Journalism" style, I feel that we will encourage freedom of expression among those hordes of newbie scum that even now quake in terror that someone might actually insult or otherwise take notice of them. Also, it's fun. > You may enjoy, others may not. -- >> Ah, the mating cry of the wiley Passive-Aggressive. Children of the Plight, what music they make. That's right, 500 lurkers strong, one guy swinging wild at all and sundry, but no one can do anything about it because he's just so *mean*. Complaints to the List Admin can't stop him, we are too cowed by his cruelty and lack of cotillion graces. Bullets won't stop him! He's heading for the power plant! We cannot let him reproduce! All of us, poor victims all, have been waiting for you to defend us. None of us had the moral courage. Thank you Masked Newbie, for saving our town. Mark McFadden You may not think that was funny, others may. P.S. Other than your inability to take a hint with grace, you had some good things to say about DG stuff. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 12:50 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Bohemian Grove In a message dated 5/7/00 7:01:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wtimmins@hotmail.com writes: << Picture pleasant parties in Geneva with Stephen Alzis, Hillary Clinton, and Michael Eisner chatting over champagne about the inapplicability of nationalism and personal property in the next century. Picture wild orgies in the Hamptons, featuring anyone who is anyone. Genuine Pickman art on the walls. Special secret service available to clean up any unpleasantness, such as eviscerated male and female prostitutes. >> Ta da! Have I got the resort for you. Here's some hilights from an article (don't have the URL) I found at www.parascope.com. The world's most prestigious summer camp - the Bohemian Grove - 75 miles north of San Francisco in the small hamlet of Monte Rio (pop.1200). That area of Sonoma county is particularly beautiful. Redwoods, the Russian River, the town of Sebastopol. A nearby coastal town, Bodega Bay was the setting for 'The Birds'.The fiercely guarded, 2,700-acre retreat is the country extension of San Francisco's all-male ultra-exclusive Bohemian Club to which every Republican President since Herbert Hoover has belonged. Stop that giggling. What's so damn funny about an all-male club based in San Francisco? The Grove's Shakespearean motto, "Weaving spiders come not here," is supposed to refer to the no-business policy which is widely ignored. The 1967 agreement by Ronald Reagan, over a drink with Richard Nixon, to stay out of the coming presidential race - was made there. Founded in 1872 by five journalists from the San Francisco Examiner who wanted to create a toney club 'to help elevate journalism to that place in the popular estimation to which it is entitled' , the Bohemian Club now bars reporters for some odd reason. Today, a prospective member faces an interrogation that, according to one club man, 'would satisfy the KGB.' There is a waiting list of 1,500 notables, all eager to pay the $2,500 initiation fee and $600-a-year dues (1981 fees). Mother Jones, August 1981 volume 6 page 28, reported a partial list of some of the prominent members: "George P. Shultz, Stephen Bechtel, Jr., Gerald R. Ford, Henry Kissinger, William F. Buckley, Jr., Fred L. Hartley, Merv Griffin, Thomas Haywood, Joseph Coors, Edward Teller, Ronald Reagan, A. W. Clausen, George Bush, William French Smith, John E. Swearingten, Casper W. Weinberger, Justin Dart, William E. Simon, and hundreds of other prominent politicos and businessmen." NEVER MIND ALL THAT. WHERE'S THE SEX AND DEATH? Sorry. How's this? Recent [O'Brien and Phillips, TRANCE Formation of America (pp 170-1)] information may radically change this perception of Bohemian Grove. Not merely drunkenness, unbounded use of alcohol and drugs with vague homosexual tones (confirmed by our sources) but reported activities much more serious - kidnapping, rape, pedophilia, sodomy, ritual murder. Investigation is blocked under the 1947 National Security Act. (!) And like the Omaha child abuse case, includes illegal detention of children. Now we're cookin'. With gas. For decades, there have been vague rumors of weird goings on in Bohemian Grove in more remote parts of its 2200 acres. Reliable reports claim Druidic like rituals, druids in red hooded robes marching in procession and chanting to the Great Owl (Moloch.) A funeral pyre with "corpses." (Scores of men work in the Bohemian Grove as servants so this party is fairly well established.) An article in a local community newspaper, Santa Rosa Sun (1993, July) reported on the Cult of Canaan and the legend of Moloch in place at Bohemian Grove. About the mid 1980s there were rumors of murders in remote parts of the property. A local police investigation went nowhere. State investigators on related criminal acts went nowhere. According to an observer and near victim, who can describe the Bohemian Grove inner hideaways, the closed sanctum, even the decor at secret locations, places where no outsider goes (or servants according to our sources) there is an UNDERGROUND lounge (sign spelled U.N.derground) a Dark Room, a Leather Room and a Necrophilia Room. Here is one of O'Brien's quotes. "Slaves of advancing age or with failed programming were sacrificially murdered at random in the wooded grounds of Bohemian Grove and I felt it was only a matter of time until it would be me." Jinkies! Skull&Bones meets the Manchurian Candidate? Lifestyles of the Rich and Heinous? Mark McFadden Used to live in nearby Santa Rosa, setting for 'Shadow of a Doubt' and home of the Ripley's Believe It Or Not Odditorium. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of a hyperintelligent shade of blue [ilikemonkeys@geocities.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 2:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Domains and Hierarchies At 09:57 AM 07-05-00 +0100, you wrote: >One very basic point, though - Domains aren't everything. We may have an >insight here, but that doesn't mean we can jam all the wierdness of the >Mythos into it. > I think we're using different definitions of Domains, here. Because with my definition of Domains, they're by definition everything. I'm using Domain to speak of a subset of natural laws. The Electromagnetic Domain, The Quantum Indeterminancy Domain, the (to be facetious) That Which Is Not Dead Can Eternal Lie Domain which allows Cthulhu to violate the rules of Our Universe's Entropy Domain... Our Spacetime has a set, and certain creatures that exist in "higher dimensions" have access to a seperate set, allowing them to violate our natural laws... > >Two things, as I see it, that Domains, at least Domains as I have sketched >them out, don't explain > > 1) Consciousness and the Dreamlands. Other-Domain matter is simply >matter. There is no more "reason" for it to generate Consciousness, >however complex its configuration, than Brihatic matter. Consciousness is simply a waveform imposed on matter, EM radiation operating at X frequency in the ether. As for the Dreamlands, who is to say it's not just another Plane of reality composed of its own matter, with it's own set of Domain-Laws? The very fact that ghouls can hop from it to "reality" and the old folklore about injuries sustained in dreams carrying over to the waking world would seem to bear this out. > >> The Fourth Stage: The Outer Gods >> At this level, the entity has effectively /become/ a domain. > >I'm not sure what that means: as I said, I think of the various Domains as >being subsets of the matter in _this_ Universe. If you go outside this >Universe, as the Elder Gods do - it all gets wierder. With my usage of domain, it means that the Outer Gods become archetypal embodiments of a law of some universe. Daoloth, for instance, might be a physical, conscious representation (an avatar, if you will) of a domain that governs the complex relationships betwixt the dimensions, while He Who Is Not To Be Named is on its way to becoming Quantum Indeterminancy. Azathoth is a big bubbling roiling mass of seething nuclear chaos with a sackload of hit points, and he's also a Jungian archetype of the chaos that birthed all the other domains. Nyarlathotep is the soul and messengers of those elder blasphemies, the nameless Outer Gods, but he's also the Domain of Entropy Always Increases... It's all very mystic, unfortunately, but it's the only way to explain things when you get to this level... Ian > > > > >The Glove Cleaner > > "I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine." -- Frank Zappa From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 2:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Domains and Hierarchies ----- Original Message ----- From: a hyperintelligent shade of blue To: Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 8:00 PM Subject: Re: DG: Re: Domains and Hierarchies > At 09:57 AM 07-05-00 +0100, you wrote: > > >One very basic point, though - Domains aren't everything. We may have an > >insight here, but that doesn't mean we can jam all the wierdness of the > >Mythos into it. > > > I think we're using different definitions of Domains, here. Because > with my definition of Domains, they're by definition everything. Fair point: we are not really arguing, because in fact we are arguing about terminology, nothing else. Obviously a common definition needs to be agreed - (and I would say Timmins is the only one who has authority to make it, because all this derives from his "EndTime" work. However, to ask for it now may be premature.) If it helps, reread my piece with "Elementary Particle Domain" or "EPD" subsituting for "Domain". That cuts it down to something more limited & particular than the "Generalised Domain" you are speaking of. What in fact I am saying is that EPD's don't explain everything - which is what you are saying, I think! The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 3:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Re:DG: Cult of Transcendence >From: "Andy Robertson" > > Picture pleasant parties in Geneva with Stephen Alzis, Hillary Clinton, >and > > Michael Eisner chatting over champagne about the inapplicability of > > nationalism and personal property in the next century. > > >Hilary Clinton. Yeah. > >You think this is a joke? You think you are making it up? > >She really believes in it too. She thinks she is, like, doing good. > >No-one works harder than an idealistic woman, but no other kind of human >being is blinder. Men never get that single minded. > > >The Glove Cleaner Men say in jest what they fear to acknowledge. No, I don't think it's a joke. But I have to keep laughing else I'll start screaming. -=Will ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Domains and Hierarchies >From: "Andy Robertson" >Obviously a common definition needs to be agreed - (and I would say Timmins >is the only one who has authority to make it, because all this derives from >his "EndTime" work. However, to ask for it now may be premature.) (Agent Timmins gets all ruddy and bashful as he cleans his colt) In the next week or so I hope to draw these threads together and put a new file on my Endtimes stuff, and decide what tweaks I feel like making... Really, people have the authority to interpret and play with ideas as they want. Add in Derleth, if you have the stomach for it, and so on. My current thinking is that the particle/domain stuff covers most, but not all, of the Mythos phenomena. The highest of the high, Azathoth and a few others, may bridge this universe and others, but most of everything else is within a universe that is much bigger than we understand today. Most of the heavies exist in the Universe, straddling domains, or consisting of domains or multidomain bodies. For example, yog-sothoth sounds almost perfectly as a cross-domain cluster of laws and interactions that, in very alien ways, can be considered conscious. It would likely be impossible for humans to remain human and learn enough to distinguish whether entities exist in some bizarre corner of this universe, or in another. Part of my conception is that, even with lots of theory and hypertech, scientists in the Endtimes only have a few of the rules regarding one other domain mapped out, as well as its relationship to our domain. All the other domains are sketched out only in the most tenuous, Elder Race-assisted senses. I hope to draw on the particle law 'domain' thing and the classification of entities for this. The particle law idea is so cool... it makes my usage of 'domain' even more sensible. Sort of like reference frames, but for laws themselves. I will leave the issue of whether the most cosmic entities exist in one universe or many in question. Throughout the Endtimes, theorists will argue about it. Different theories will come in vogue, but it will remain as unreachable as the Grand Unified Theory is today. Amusing point.. the GUT will be just as hopeless then as now. With all the new complexities of the universe, the answers 'just around the corner' have gone rocketing off. Heh. -Agent Timmins- ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Domains and Hierarchies ----- Original Message ----- From: William Timmins > Amusing point.. the GUT will be just as hopeless then as now. With all the > new complexities of the universe, the answers 'just around the corner' have > gone rocketing off. Heh. Yeah. Why do I feel it will always, always, be that way? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FAQ it. Hey, Pookie--take it off-list, OK? Nobody but you cares about this little discussion anymore. And please trim your quotes more thoroughly. Dave On Sun, 7 May 2000 14:45:08 +0100 Louise Hayes wrote: >You may enjoy, others may not. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@disinfo.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re:DG: Cult of Transcendence From: "Andy Robertson" >No-one works harder than an idealistic woman, but no other kind of human >being is blinder. Men never get that single minded. Before the ladies on the list start in on you, Andy, I'll toss in my own "What, are you NUTS?!" Hitler? Stalin? Wayne Wheeler (leader of the Anti-Saloon League, which lead to Prohbition in America)? Dave