From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Cthulhu and Hastur On Wed, 16 May 2001 00:06:14 -0600 "Khorne" wrote: > > However, what I mean is, Azathoth is an > actual living being > of some type. In some sense of the word, Azathoth is > alive, with a discrete > existence of his own. Hastur, on the other hand, > especially as defined by > the hastur Mythos, is an idea, a set of recurring themes > and patterns, and > so isn't alive in a conventional sense. Isn't as alive > as Azathoth is said > to be. Khorne, I swear to GOOs I'm going to clip your *is* rights for a month. I'm pulling your License and issuing a Learner's Permit, which means no tooling about without a licensed user onboard. Azathoth *is* an actual living being of some type. Azathoth *is* alive, with a discrete existence of his own. Really? And your source for this insider information would be...? What part of "beyond human understanding or description" are you having trouble with? Just rein in on the "is" statements and try for something more appropriate to a Coco Puff describing the economic\political\industrial infrastructure that created the kitchen. Mark McFadden The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization On Wed, 16 May 2001 10:35:03 -0600 "Khorne" wrote: > "Cthulhu does not _want_ the collapse of civilization." > > Really? Check this out... > > The organized worship of the Great Old One known as Great > Cthulhu, the King > Beneath the Sea, is the oldest religion on Earth. [snip] Hmmmm. Compare the machinations of the Cthulhu Cult to: "The Communist Rules for Revolution" These rules were captured in Dusseldorf, Germany, in 1919 by the Allied Forces: 1. Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial. Destroy their ruggedness. 2. Get control of all means of publicity. 3. Get people's minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities. 4. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance. 5. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule, and obloquy. 6. Always preach true democracy, but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible. 7. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit and produce fear of inflation with rising prices and general discontent. 8. Foment unnecessary strikes in vital industries, encourage civil disorders, and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward such disorders. 9. By specious argument cause the breakdown of the old moral virtues, honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness. 10. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with a view to confiscating them and leaving the population helpless. Take time to think - seriously - of all the above. Then draw your own conclusions. Frightening how far we have permitted them (the Communists) - even helped them - to progress, isn't it? ******************** Me again. So, Cthulhu is a Commie? I bet he wants to take all our guns and make us use Mickey Mouse Lick'n'Stick tattoos as well. Mark McFadden The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Tim Coram [kinginyellow46@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Cthulhu and Hastur >From: (The Lizard King) > > > Khorne, I swear to GOOs I'm going to clip your *is* rights >for a month. I'm pulling your License and issuing a >Learner's Permit, which means no tooling about without a >licensed user onboard. > > Azathoth *is* an actual living being of some type. > Azathoth *is* alive, with a discrete existence of his own. > > Really? And your source for this insider information would >be...? > > What part of "beyond human understanding or description" >are you having trouble with? > > Just rein in on the "is" statements and try for something >more appropriate to a Coco Puff describing the >economic\political\industrial infrastructure that created >the kitchen. Well, you know, prefacing every sentence with "I think, but can not know, as the loathly Great Old Ones and the horrific Outer Gods are ineffable to mortals, that..." gets a might wordy. Its just easier to say what you're thinking than to lable everything "my ideas." After all, none of this stuff is real, its all our ideas, and the source material is so small as to be all but non-existent. >Mark McFadden Tim, currently reading and enjoying political-religious philosophy, T.E.D. Klein and anti-Zionism all for the low, low price of five dollars, thank you McKay's. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 2:04 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Khorne has become... I have signed up for a one month trial of cable internet. In the hook-up, the tech changed my e-mail address, and I've lost my anonymity on the DGML. Oh well, that's life. In a month's time, unless I fall in love with my cable hook-up, I'll be back to Khorne again. So now you know who Khorne is off-list. When you speak of me, please speak kindly. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Harmoniously alternating evolution .... and no kidding. Greetings. I was doing a bit of research for a story I'm writing (or even better, planning on writing) and stumbled on the following, which is absolutely real, but as usual almost too god to be true (and I think the Glove Cleaner will like it....) Let's start melodramatically... "In the chest with the concave lid there's the Braille manuscript of the new mathematical operation invented by me. The keys are held by the Carmelitan fathers of San Valentino." Only it was not there, you see. This was Rome, 1944. The note translated above (trying to preserve the wooden Italian style) is part of the testament of Gioacchino Giovarosi. He was born in 1889. Blind from birth, studied in a catholic school for handicap-bearing kids; he was a gifted violin player, a book binder by trade and, as a hobby, a mathematician. He actually got his meagre income from playing the violin on a bridge, in Terni, and getting money from the passer-bys. And on his own time, he invented a "generalized system for solving numerical equations". Now bear with me as I summarize from a field which is not my own. The approximated resolution of higher degree equations is something the Chinese invented in ancient times, and was sort of standardized and set down in the early 19th century by Ruffini & Horner. You basically scan the equation, determine a field of likely result, and then approximate it. Normally it works, sometimes it does not. BUT! A guy called Ch'in Chiu-Shao (in the first half of the 13th century) found out something he called "Harmoniously alternating evolution" which is an approximation method superior to those developed by his contemporaries and superior to the Ruffini & Horner method too. Faster, simpler, more elegant, more general, with a smaller degree of uncertainty. What has this all to do with the blind violin player? Well, apparently Giovarosi - that remember, was a self-taught mathematician who loved to play with numbers as a form of pastime - discovered the "Harmoniously alternating evolution", all by himself (and this part of his work - 20 typed pages, survives to this day). And he refined it a bit. His method - presented to the public in 1994 and discussed in a maths magazine in 1997 - is actually better than the Cardano Ferrari system for solving third and fourth degree equations, simpler than Newton's method, _and_ it bridges the two solving methods used traditionally - resolution by radicals and numerical resolution (mathematically inclined individuals have a better idea of what all of this means than me, I fear). All this, in the only twenty surviving pages of his work. And from there on, Giovarosi developed _an even better system_. One that works with _any_ equation. In his own writ "resolution of any equation of any degree, in any form, with any number of unknowns". Like that. With pen and paper. In 1939. The problem, as I said at the start, is that the Braille manuscript was not where he said it would be. Do you need an ObDG spelled out for all of this? Mundane - a machine running on algorithms derived from Giovarosi's method would be something else. Cryptography? Really advanced physics? Genome project? A real killer game of chess? You must be kidding! But let's forget about this one - mundane is just that, mundane. Think about a method that allows you to penetrate the most obscure mathematical mysteries with pen and paper. If maths can be used to describe reality, Giovarosi's method could be the key for.... What? Hyperspace? The Yithian Leap? An Access All Areas Pass for Azathot's Domain? I hope someone out there finds this interesting. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Not good at maths Torino, Italy The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:13 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Harmoniously alternating evolution ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" > If maths can be used to describe reality, Giovarosi's method could be the > key for.... > What? > Hyperspace? > The Yithian Leap? > An Access All Areas Pass for Azathot's Domain? It certainly is interesting. --- *** --- Now, a question: Some maths is apparently connected with spatial visualsation. Suppose a blind man has that much extra brain to use for maths? Suppose they can **really** "see" their mathematical ideas, using their visual cortex, while in the rest of us boring old vision occupies all the brain space? What happens if we discover that there are certain types of vitally important mathematics which you **have** to be blind, perhaps blind-from-birth, to do? --- *** --- Or one imagines a blind-from-birth mathematician using their visual cortex in this way and **then** being given sight after some surgical advance. What might they see that ordinary humanity is blind to? As the Endtimes approach, a guild of ritually blinded Mythos magicians is the least we can expect. --- *** --- And something similar might apply with the deaf - maths and musical ability are frequently linked. The Glove Cleaner The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization On Wed, 16 May 2001 19:53:00 +0100 "Andy Robertson" wrote: > ObDG? I'm not sure. Background, maybe. > > And something about the danger of Believing a political > or social idea with > neo-religious fervor. Not to toot my own horn or anything, but the spin I put on it is at: http://www.delta-green.com/opint/case_histories/ch_ADG.MM-0099.html Those 10 Rules are like a meme program for paranoia about the ubiquitous Them. Once the proposition has been laid out and outlined with numbers and everything, the world around you begins to look like it's following a plan. "Gosh, those kids don't have any respect for our natural leaders. Must be Communism at work." "Hey, that guy being trashed in the news was one of my heroes. Must be Communism at work." "Why, this latest brouhaha sure looks like constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance. Must be Communists trying to divide us." The 10 Rules probably had a variation in Latin for the Roman Empire. We may giggle at people who believe this sort of thing, but sometimes they get power. I'm not sure Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn actually believed any of that, but you can bet that the same arguments were used with the same "evidence." "I have here in my hand a *list* with the *names* of mumbledymumble *card-carrying* Mythos cultists in the Pentagon and State Department." How many? "Two hundred and mumbledymumble card-carrying MYTHOS CULTISTS in the PENTAGON, STATE DEPARTMENT and ARMY." How many? "Three hundred and mumbledymumble CARD-CARRYING MYTHOS CULTISTS in the PENTAGON, STATE DEPARTMENT, ARMY and throughout HOLLYWOOD." To paraphrase Angela Lansbury in 'The Manchurian Candidate', the question is no longer "are there Mythos cultists in the US government?" but "how many Mythos cultists are in the US government?" Mark McFadden The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization Greetings.... The Glove Cleaner wrote.... >No, these are serious ideas, first formulated by Antionio Gramsci, >http://www.italnet.nd.edu/gramsci/ on the basis that Capitalism was not >going to fall down by itself and had to be pushed. Keywords GRAMSCIAN >COMMUNISM, FRANKFURT SCHOOL Good old Gramsci - see what you get when you let people with a single eyebrow get alphabetization? He always struck me as over-serious. But he was not necessarily a bad sort. Should have gone out a bit more. >By "serious", I mean there are Communists who take this as a serious >prescription for action. Possible - with a lot of misgivings. First and foremost - _if_ they ever read Gramsci. Which is no joke at all - a lot of the guys have the man's books on the shelf and never opened them. > There are a lot of people with power and influence >who actually believe this ten-step program for power & control, or at any >rate claim they do. ROTFL. No, sorry.... better the second option, IMHO. I mean - I can imagine radical, integralist fringe groups proposing to apply the Gramsci decalog as seen on this list, but straight political parties (= power and influence) are another can of worms altogether. "Corrupting the youngs" as a way to induce the short-circuiting of Capitalist Society? I've met my share of Communists - both moderate and hard core, and I know very few of them that would not see that as a silly joke. Not even Geddafi would buy it. As for getting control of media, diverting the attention of the masses, breaking with former rules and all the rest - that's the general attitude of a number of political factions and groups, of all colours and denominations. Hell, it was even in the P2 protocols for the "Democratic Rebirth" of Italy. So, if it's taken seriously, it's taken seriously independently of colour or political flavour, and by groups that do not have power and influence already. As for claiming they do, sure. It's a set-piece - like the Che Guevara T-shirt and the kefiah (sp?); the uniform for the good radical thinker. Hell, Gramsci is such a prophet in Italy even Silvio Berlusconi - leader of the right wing colaition - claimed to be his "ideological heir". But he also claimed he has been "the anointed of the Lord", so I'd take him with more than a grain of salt. Of course, I share the average Italian's cynicism about politics. After all, did not I see the leader of the "Communist Restoration" party cheering the victory of the right wing in Italy and accusing a moderate Christian Democrat of being a "bloody Stalinist" on TV two nights back? Politics has very little to do with reality. That's the reason why it can get so dangerous. And here I cut this short. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Torino, Italy The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ygurvitz@netvision.net.il Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 4:36 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:22 PM To: Dgrpg (E-mail) Subject: DG: Secret court authorizes more FBI taps, bugs and black bag jobs than ever before. http://www.securityfocus.com/news/201 "WASHINGTON--Federal agents filed a record 1,005 applications to perform electronic surveillance and covert physical burglaries in supposed terrorism and espionage investigations last year, all of which were granted, according to Justice Department figures made public Wednesday." OBDG: Easy. Agents go about their merry way for a time, getting warrants as they want them. Then they're asked by a oversight committee why they bugged a particular site. Of course, they never did... NRO did, in their name. Seems like a fun plot point. The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization "Hello Khorne" Hello Yossi. Was Khorne, but for the next month at least, it'll be Bryan Fennell. "A very interesting theory, but is the cult really as powerful as you make it to be?" More than MJ-12, I consider the Cthulhu cult to be the big bad guys. There is enough information implicit in Lovecraft's stories and Chaosium's materials (from whence Delta Green arises) to suggest world wide scope and power for the Cthulhu cult. Yossi, you might want to check your computer for a virus called "MTX". When I downloaded your posts from the DGML, my anti-virus software lit up like a Roman candle. If its just my computer having fits, that's par for the course, but if you've got a ghost in your machine, I hope I've saved you some troubles. The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: I think - horror of horrors - that there's a virus gotten into the DGML. My anti-virus software has been lighting up all afternoon. Check your systems, people. "dude, this thing with an attachment just got to me. While I'm on an Imac at the moment, I would really wonder if this is something you actually sent, or is it a viral contaminant!" The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Lee Williams [lee@grizz.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: VIRUS WARNING /lurk OFF/ I deleted my copy of that e-mail pronto without even thinking about considering the merest possiblity of looking at it. Paranoid? Me? YES... Lee Williams ICQ 25628876 Associate Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future http://www.demonground.org leewilliams@demonground.org /lurk ON/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Trevizo To: Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:30 PM Subject: DG: VIRUS WARNING > At 12:35 AM 5/17/2001 +0300, ygurvitz@netvision.net.il wrote: > > An email with a virus attached. McAfee Viruscan caught it before it could > infect my system, and I can only hope others were as lucky. Please look > into this and be warned. > > Gil > > The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization At 12:32 AM 5/17/2001 +0200, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: >Also, how organized > can a cult be, when it's a. persecuted, and b. has to rely mostly on > visions of its members? Sounds like the early Christian Church. Hell, sounds like just about every organized religion in its early stages. >There are no Cthulhu Commandments, no > framework, no *canon* for the cult to rally around. A plethora of > mad prophets is not a recipe for religious success. I've not read it, but I've heard that the Cthulhu Live: LOST SOULS books goes into detail on the Cthulhu Cult, with orthodox versus non-orthodox sects. I'd imagine the orthodox sects are closer to those undying Secret Masters in Asia that Thurston wrote about in "The Call of Cthulhu", while the non-orthodox are more like the wackos in New Orleans. The Secret Masters have their canon in certain texts, base their legitimacy on their seniority, and set out to destroy the non-orthodox sects that are trying to raise Dread Cthulhu before his timel, while the non-orthodox sects groove on Big C's vibe and eschew canon. Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 5:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization At 04:21 PM 5/16/2001 -0600, Bryan Fennell wrote: >More than MJ-12, I consider the Cthulhu cult to be the big bad guys. There >is enough information implicit in Lovecraft's stories and Chaosium's >materials (from whence Delta Green arises) to suggest world wide scope and >power for the Cthulhu cult. How does Chaosium portray the Cthulhu Cult in the modern day? Sure, they are the Mythos bad asses of cultists back in the '20s, but the DELTA GREEN sourcebook is quite clear on how far they have fallen: "The ancient cult... is all but eradicated... the Cult's global threat is long since ended. Cthulhu does not need the Cult, and its loss is not a great one." Later, it goes on how the Cult is gone but Cthulhu worship has spread to individual worshippers who no longer gather in cults but pray to Big C on their own and will one day arise to rebirth the Cult when the Endtimes come. But that is then and this is now. Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Harmoniously alternating evolution On Thu, 17 May 2001 01:00:41 +0200 Davide Mana wrote: > Hold that thought.... the bit about self-sacrifice as a > source of powers is > old and well established. > Odin sacrificed an eye to acquire far-sight. > > The idea of a cult of self-mutilating hermetical mages is > pretty good as a > game/fiction hook. > I only fear it's none too original. Combine the sacrificial aspect of magical tradition with the hyperactivity that occurs during sensory deprivation. John Lilly showed that chemicals are not needed to slip into altered consciousness, that's what the brain does when you turn off the input. His sensory deprivation experiments came long before his experiments with psychoactive substances. 'Black Wind' by F. Paul Wilson had a Japanese cult that eliminated senses as they progressed in enlightenment. The retirement of masters was to become a blind, deaf head and torso; they'd eliminated taste and smell years earlier. Mark McFadden The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bill Nichols [themaninawhitecar@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 6:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization > I've not read it, but I've heard that the > Cthulhu Live: LOST SOULS books > goes into detail on the Cthulhu Cult, with > orthodox versus non-orthodox > sects. That it does, but there is also "A Guide to the Cthulhu Cult," from Armitage House, no less. $9.95 (US), and extremely useful if you're going to make use of the Cult of Cthulhu. Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 6:39 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Harmoniously alternating evolution ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > > Combine the sacrificial aspect of magical tradition with > the hyperactivity that occurs during sensory deprivation. Lovecraft had the brains in the Mi-Go cases (sorry, Dr Dee) drop off to a sleep of "especially vivid dreams" when they were disconnected. This inspires some possibilities. A friend of the Mi-Go does not need to cripple himself to undergo the ultimate sensory deprivation. He can have it almost at will. Such a one, if a mathematician or magician, might **request** some time in a brain-case to perfect his meditations - and then re-emerge and reassume his body. And "Especially vivid dreams" = especially strong contact with the Dreamlands? A new way for skilled Dreamers to control the number of steps down? --- *** --- Also, are we sure these dreams are self-generated? Suppose they are supplied by the braincase? As entertainment, conditioning, or for other reasons? The Glove Cleaner The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:18 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: That's what it did when it infected my system some months ago: a blank file attachment. Be warned. "I apologize. That was very strange. I did send that mail to Yossi, but it got sent to the list. I received a blank mail with an attachment from Yossi's address. I replied to it, without opening the attachment. Nowhere on the e-mail was DG mail addy apparent. Perhaps Yossi's address is compromised." The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization "How does Chaosium portray the Cthulhu Cult in the modern day? Sure, they are the Mythos bad asses of cultists back in the '20s, but the DELTA GREEN sourcebook is quite clear on how far they have fallen:" Chaosium makes no specific statements as to the strength or weakness of the cult in the modern day. "The ancient cult... is all but eradicated... the Cult's global threat is long since ended. Cthulhu does not need the Cult, and its loss is not a great one." I consider this interesting, but...enh. Cthulhu was, Cthulhu is, and Cthulhu shall be. No mention is made as to how the cult was eradicated, and, as Delta Green itself attests to, just because you think you've destroyed something doesn't mean you've succeeded. What's that great line from "the Usual Suspects": the greatest trick the devil ever pulled ws convincing the world he didn't exist"? The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization At 04:37 PM 5/16/2001 -0700, Bill Nichols wrote: >That it does, but there is also >"A Guide to the Cthulhu Cult," from >Armitage House, no less. $9.95 (US), and >extremely useful if you're going to make >use of the Cult of Cthulhu. Again, have not read it, but I've heard that it's very much in the Derlethian hierarchy motif of the Cthulhu Mythos. I'd rather avoid that, for my money. Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization At 06:21 PM 5/16/2001 -0600, Bryan Fennell wrote: >I consider this interesting, but...enh. Cthulhu was, Cthulhu is, and >Cthulhu shall be. No mention is made as to how the cult was eradicated, The DELTA GREEN sourcebook implies that orgiastic rites by isolated communities of degenerates aren't very effective in the modern day. We live in a much smaller world than the '20s. As for Cthulhu, sure, the Big C is still a threat, but the Big C and the Cthulhu Cult are two very different things. >and, as Delta Green itself attests to, just because you think you've >destroyed something doesn't mean you've succeeded. What's that great line >from "the Usual Suspects": the greatest trick the devil ever pulled ws >convincing the world he didn't exist"? Your mileage may vary and your campaign is your campaign. We brought up on dgww2 the fact that the Cthulhu Cult was eradicated sometime between the 1920s and the 1990s, and there is disagreement over whether or not to place that eradication during the 1940s. Personally, I think WWII DG had a large part in it - from what I've put together, P Division knew a hell of a lot about the Cthulhu Cult before the war and the war gives them resources and cover to wipe out whole communities without a blink of the eye. The war also spread DG worldwide, putting agents in places as disparate as Europe, Tibet, SW Pacific, etc. while the postwar world segregates large portions of the world behind the Iron Curtain. Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Pencis [cpencis@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:24 PM To: Delta Green Subject: DG: Section 8 website for a laugh Ok so its OT unless you've read ROE, no real spoilers here but - having read ROE, and then hitting this site... (serious style rip-off of popular ecommerce site) http://www.brains4zombies.com/ Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Fw: Indians attacked by 'monkey man' (news.com.au report) On 16 May, 2001, "Khorne" reports on a monkey man who is either a cyborg, or who has met the Monolith: >If monkey man is some sort of advanced cyborg, then it is possible that he >requires darkness for mre than cover. Perhaps A/C current in power >transmission interferes with his onboard systems. There's a nice >conspiracy >thread for you: the dark powers in this little episode engineering massive >power outages so that they simian hordes remain invincible. Another possibility might be that monkey boy himself is responsible for the blackouts, either projecting some sort of EMP effect that trips the breakers and brings down that portion of the grid, or somehow tapping the energy on the power lines, Tesla-style, to charge up his onboard banks of biocapacitors... (In the second case, perhaps the increased load trips the breakers and causes the blackout, but monkey boy is now fully charged for his latest nocturnal mayhem!) Has any RF interference been reported in the attack areas? It might be able to give the authorities some early warning. If his systems produce some sort of ongoing RF signature in "combat mode", it might even be possible to track him! Note that if he does have some sort of high-powered energy storage system, it is best to engage him from a distance with firearms, after ensuring there are no civilians or expensive objects close by him. A hit on his "battery" may trigger explosive release of the stored energy! Not like the Illudium Q-37 Explosive Space Mod-u-lat-or, but still powerful enough to do some damage to people and things nearby! (Exploding high-density powercells! Electro-Thermal Explosives! We had a rather interesting thread on that subject over on GURPSnet, way back when, back when I was first on it...):) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Fw: Indians attacked by 'monkey man' (news.com.au report) "Another possibility might be that monkey boy himself is responsible for the blackouts, either projecting some sort of EMP effect that trips the breakers and brings down that portion of the grid, or somehow tapping the energy on the power lines, Tesla-style, to charge up his onboard banks of biocapacitors... (In the second case, perhaps the increased load trips the breakers and causes the blackout, but monkey boy is now fully charged for his latest nocturnal mayhem!)" Actually, that fits rather nicely. Most of these sorts of phenomena...UFOs, Mothman, poltergeists, the grinning man, etc...have a destructive effect on electrical devices and electronics. I am embarrassed that it didn't occur to me. "Note that if he does have some sort of high-powered energy storage system, it is best to engage him from a distance with firearms, after ensuring there are no civilians or expensive objects close by him. A hit on his "battery" may trigger explosive release of the stored energy! Not like the Illudium Q-37 Explosive Space Mod-u-lat-or, but still powerful enough to do some damage to people and things nearby!" Of course, electricity itself migth be a useful offense as well, if his battery is exotic enough. What's the maxim by Scotty the Engineer: the more complicated the fixtures, the easier it is to gum up the plumbing. By the by, monkey man has gone global. This entire episode has made the (legitimate) television news here in Canada. I wonder how far it will all spread? The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 8:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization "The DELTA GREEN sourcebook implies that orgiastic rites by isolated communities of degenerates aren't very effective in the modern day. We live in a much smaller world than the '20s." Isolation is always possible: Branch davidians, Ruby Ridge, Jim Green in Utah. The modern age actually enhances your privacy, since you don't have to be with lots of people to talk to lots of people. "As for Cthulhu, sure, the Big C is still a threat, but the Big C and the Cthulhu Cult are two very different things." Very true, but people are always willing to serve where power is on the offering. "...to place that eradication during the 1940s. Personally, I think WWII DG had a large part in it - from what I've put together..." I agree that P Division was probaly able to strike some very decisive blows during WWII, and Delta Green during the cold war before its official disbandment, but I just can't see a group that is at least as old as human history bowing out that quickly. I'm sure that the Cthulhu cult met and matched more than its share of dedicated enemies over those thousands of years. The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization >> There are a lot of people with power and influence >>who actually believe this ten-step program for power & control, or at any >>rate claim they do. There's also people who are still running scared of this being actively used against American culture in general. Years ago, in college, there was one campus ministry which used to show Jon Ankerberg's "Hells Bells" anti-rock videos to us. It was the usual schpiel (play this record backwards and look what you get! see! See!?!) and very innacurate (They badmouthed the group Styx because Styx was the river that ran through Hell. Ha ha. I tried to tell them they were wrong, and they went weird on me) But what always stuck in my mind was the first presentation I ever went to. The man who was emceeing this event (upright skinny middle-aged balding guy with a fat ass) was walking around "Hi, I'm Pastor Fat Ass of We Want Your Sexdrive Campus Ministries. And I have a quote for you... from Joseph Stalin." SOme of us are thinking 'uh... uncle joe didn't believe in the devil' But he goes on to say that the Communists had a plan to turn American kids towards Communism... and the way they were going to do it was through public messages, art, and... MUSIC!!! Things proceeded apace and are OT as hell. But I always kind of wondered about that paranoia, where it tends to turn up, and how it's applied... OBDG: I have compromising photos of Gil and Nicholai Kruschev. This gives me the freedom to ramble on the list at will. Oh, wait, maybe there is a point, here. Anti-Commie paranoia, amongst the down-home, 'old guard' types who send their kids off to school with an apple for the teacher and a bible under their arm, breeds fear and suspicion. Fear breeds extreme actions... like, say, doing weird things with a select group of folks in your church because "Christ Jesus" said so. Christ Jesus says communism is gaining footholds in the former soviet union once more, and the war for Jerusalem will bottom out just as the antichrist dissolves the Duma and declares himself the Supreme Soviet. Christ Jesus is just a mask. Peel slowly and see... J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization At 07:59 PM 5/16/2001 -0600, Bryan Fennell wrote: >Isolation is always possible: Branch davidians, Ruby Ridge, Jim Green in >Utah. Yeah, the Branch Davidians and the Ruby Ridge folks are a veritable blueprint for cult success. >The modern age actually enhances your privacy, since you don't have >to be with lots of people to talk to lots of people. The key to the Cthulhu Cult's success was that it was able to remain isolated while maintaining contact over long distances. Once the modern age made that isolation obsolete, the Cthulhu Cult could not shield itself from the eyes of those that would do them harm. Of course, they could have if they gotten smart and worked their way into the power structure, which is what the DELTA GREEN sourcebook implies some individuals did. But the frothing mad ritual murderers simply could not keep the world from noticing their antics and were passed by. >Very true, but people are always willing to serve where power is on the >offering. The DELTA GREEN sourcebook is plain on this - there are strong-willed individuals who are drawn to Cthulhu for the power that it can provide to their own ends. But these are opportunists, not cultists, and they are not members of the Cthulhu Cult. >I agree that P Division was probaly able to strike some very decisive blows >during WWII, and Delta Green during the cold war before its official >disbandment, Once Tibet gets taken out by the Red Chinese, I have to seriously question whether or not DG can hurt the Cthulhu Cult there, which I believe is a major base of operations. Of course that wouldn't have stopped the Red Chinese from taking out the Secret Masters. >but I just can't see a group that is at least as old as human >history bowing out that quickly. The world has changed dramatically in the past hundred years. There are tribesmen in the Pacific and the Amazon that have gone straight from the Stone Age to MTV. It is a staple of DG that the Mythos cults had to change to survive in our day of age - we see that in the Skoptski, the Shan, the Fate, etc. What seperates them from the Cthulhu Cult is that the CC, like the Deep Ones of Innsmouth, did not have the wherewithal to change - their mode of worship was unsophisticated and of a different age. >I'm sure that the Cthulhu cult met and >matched more than its share of dedicated enemies over those thousands of >years. Time destroys all. Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: >I think - horror of horrors - that there's a virus gotten into the DGML. >My >anti-virus software has been lighting up all afternoon. Check your >systems, >people. Thanks for the heads-up. I can't download half the stuff I get in email, anyway. Fortunately for us mac users, most virus-making freaks tend to use PCs! J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:32 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Harmoniously alternating evolution On 16 May, 2001, Mark McFadden (The Lizard King) suggested: > > - In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king - > > In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is hamstrung and >kept handy to read mail. Or the elders put out his eye, so he will be like everybody else! (I have a little personal experience in being on the receiving end of such an attempt, back when I was six years old... I learned to read about three years before I started school, and (as I was reading World Book Encyclopedia and such by then) naturally got bored with the first-grade reading primers. ("See Tip. See Tip Run. Run, Tip, Run...") Realizing only that I was "different", the first-grade teacher tried to have me labeled "mentally retarded"! When my mother took her to task for this, the teacher stated (with the concurrence of the school's principal) that because I was "different", I obviously _must_ be mentally retarded! This eventually led to me attending a different school from the next grade on... (I've since incorporated a similar experience into the back-story of two or three of my gaming characters...) I wonder how many other young people, though, have "had their eye put out" because they didn't fit someone's idea of "how a student should be"?) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 11:41 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthulhu and the downfall of civilization >"The DELTA GREEN sourcebook implies that orgiastic rites by isolated >communities of degenerates aren't very effective in the modern day. We >live >in a much smaller world than the '20s." yes. But then, orgies are coming back. Even now, in the age of AIDS, folks are whistling past the graveyard to get it on with complete strangers. It's not to difficult to disguise a ritual from behind drawn, lace curtains while the unwitting 'clergy' screws in the room next door. Maybe this is where the cult went. Bereft of help from the Deep Ones, they've had to turn to other venues to get whatever group sex was giving them. Now they screw in front of internet cams and charge horny freaks $9.95 a month to watch. All major credit cards accepted. Cha ching. J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Fougere [bolide@mars.ark.com] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Fringe Science Site Subject: Far out astronomy research Another Fringe Science site that may have possible uses in DG. > http://www.metaresearch.org/ > Cheers, Don Fougere Image Sleuth - Analytical Imaging Solutions Box 169 Lazo, B.C. V0R2K0 250-890-0887 bolide@mars.ark.com www.geo.ucalgary.ca/cdnmeteorites www.geo.ucalgary.ca/PMSearch The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 12:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Harmoniously alternating evolution "I wonder how many other young people, though, have "had their eye put out" because they didn't fit someone's idea of "how a student should be"?" Sadly, all too many, Michael. Too many kids move too fast for their peers and teachers. The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/