From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Did the NRO get a death ray? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > No Orbital Mind Control Lasers to see here, citizen. Move along! :) Yeah. Besides, everyone knows that the Orbital Mind Control Lasers are used by the CIA, not the NSA. The Orbital Mind *Reading* Lasers are the NSA's. Mark McFadden The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Re: L.A., City Hall, lizards...Monica Lewinsky?] > > > >Since they mentioned Hastur and Azathoth (and Byakhee appeared in the >story), >I think I can make the assumption. It's called An Alll-Consuming Fire, it's >by Andy Lane, and Sherlock Holmes is in it, too! (shudders) jesus h. christ. Did the Doc take a u-turn into the realm of fiction, again? J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Fougere [bolide@mars.ark.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:03 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Nocturnum, Thanks. Dear David, Gil, Graeme and XR, Thanks for the leads, Int, reviews and saving me ~$60. I have decided to wait out and buy it used. Last thing I need right now is TR-7 or MG with another spawn on the way, I have enough time constraints trying to get DG up and running with conversions to GURPS, it's all my local group will play (sigh!). I'll put in my custom order for Dreamlands instead. Thanks a Tonne and Cheers, Don Fougere Image Sleuth - Analytical Imaging Solutions Box 169 Lazo, B.C. V0R2K0 250-890-0887 bolide@mars.ark.com www.geo.ucalgary.ca/cdnmeteorites www.geo.ucalgary.ca/PMSearch From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bryan Fennell [bcfennell@home.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum Despite being one of the cooler ways to pass the time, there are some problems with the Delta Green Mailing List. These include: 1) Differing concepts by differing participants about what the DGML is for: Is it a place for in character interaction between players? Is it a place for rules expansions or clarifications, provided by my fellow players and not Pagan Publishing or Tynes-Cowan Inc. to be posted? How come I get in trouble for not talking about Call of Cthulhu or Delta Green in my posts? How come so-and-so got mad at me for sending him/ her a message on their private e-mail? How much can I talk about what’s been published so far, and how much can’t I say 2) Posts must be short to be of any use to players, since long ones produce the e-mail equivalent of highway hypnosis and get deleted. Yet short posts are ignored because of their brevity. Finding the happy medium is tough. 3) The forum is undirected, without a "moderator". Instead, participants moderate each other. While democratic, this leads to no small number of scuffles, due to people not wanting to listen to someone "just like them". 4) The DGML lacks a way to sort and catagorize posts by topic to enhance usefulness to participants. 5) Posts often arrive out of order. Some form of ordering, without having to read each post to pick up the thread of conversation, would be nice. With these and some other niggles in mind, it seems that the DGML might benefit tremendously from becoming an honest-to-God Internet forum, akin to the various Delphi forums, the most famous of which is the official Fox Television X-Files website (for an example, visit http://forums.delphi.com/foxxfiles/start) , or an Ultimate Bulletin Board (for an example, visit http://www.nycbp.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi). Of course, there are likely to be some objections: Why can’t you use the DGML as it exists now, and just be a grown up about it? Why not? I don’t know why, but I do know that it isn’t happening. Perhaps it’s the structure of the DGML, a problem that would be solved by making the DGML into an honest-to-God forum like the examples provided above. It’s cool that there’s the this private mailing list that only the hard core fans/ players can access. I’d be disappointed to lose that. Both Delphi and Ultimate Bulletin Board forums can have as many entrance restrictions as you’d like. If the web address were kept restricted to the Delta Green website, as access to the DGML is now, then none of the "cool" exclusiveness would be lost. What about cost? Who would pay for the forum? Both Delphi and Ultimate Bulletin Board forums are free, in exchange for advertising posted there. A Delta Green forum could advertise suitable Delta Green-ish goods and services, such as internet privacy software and literate materials pertaining to the game (Chaosim Inc. Armitage House, Tynes-Cowan Inc., Arkham House, Weird Tales Magazine, etc.) Further, both forums would allow a corporate site to be set up, exclusive to a single company, for a nominal fee. The participants could also pay for the service. A small monthly fee, like the one that Napster could have, but didn’t, charge, and which would have saved them a lot of grief. For instance, if the fee to have Delphi run a Delta Green forum, exclusive to Delta Green without advertising of any kind on it, were $4000 a year, and suppose the DGML has 40 participants currently, that’s only an eight dollar and thirty cent monthly fee to be paid by each one. I can pay that out of the coins in my couch. There are many very high quality online payment schemes that will take a secure payment from a credit card, for example, that could handle your monthly fee for you. So how would a Delphi or Ultimate Bulletin Board forum help people know what the DGML is for? Both types of forum have subdivisions - topic lists, if you will - that are used for discussions on very specific topics. The X-Files forum has separate "folders" for major characters, fan fiction, off-topic or barely-related discussion, and even jokes. The Ultimate Bulletin Board also has separate lists, and both make it easy to start your own topic thread. Imagine, if you will, being a firearms enthusiast who wishes to discuss guns with fellow Delta Green players, but can’t because its not an on-topic discussion. If the DGML were a Delphi forum, there could be a separate folder for discussion of weaponry. And what does this have to do with "optimizing" the length of my posts? There are two ways: 1) You can see other posts and gauge the length of yours by comparison. 2) Long posts can be divided up within a folder or discussion list, keeping each individual post short, but the posts themselves together as a cohesive whole. How does this solve the moderation problem? Both Delphi and Ultimate have both moderated and unmoderated forums. Its part of their service. Even if a hypothetical DGML forum was unmoderated, the folders/ discussion lists nature of these forums allows you to go only to the topics that interest you, instead of having to wade through a lot of dross and getting PO’d. Moderators can keep things civil, and unmoderated lists sort of self-moderate because of the way these forums work. So how does this preserve order? Especially Ultimate forums, but Delphi as well, post messages in order of their receipt. You can’t get them out of chronological order. Its impossible. This keeps things straight in your mind. It would be quite simple and easy to make the change over. There would be some work needed at the beginning to get things running properly (another argument in favor of a moderator), but once done, the ability of these forum types to handle huge amounts of traffic - one complaint I’ve heard on the DGML is that, since it’s high traffic, you have to make sure every post counts - and to be self-organizing would take over and save everyone a lot of headaches. If the DGML became this sort of "official" forum, it would allow everyone to enjoy it so much more. Things could be divided up by topic, you could follow the threads of conversations better, you could comment exactly where you wanted to, instead of where you can (How often have you wanted to reply to the original post in that thread on Shub-Niggurath, instead of just the most recent part of it?), and an official forum would be such a feast for the eyes, much more visually exciting than a string of e-mails (of course some of you may have dynamite desk tops...). I urge everyone interested to express that interest, both to the great people who have brought us Delta Green in the first place, and to me. My e-mail address is at the top of this post, and I’d love to hear from you all as to your thoughts of going full forum with Delta Green From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Did the NRO get a death ray? On 18 May, 2001, Doug Streifel asked: >What're the odds of the DG notebook having laser uplink capabilities now? >:) Probably not built-in... From the pictures I've seen of lasercoms, they are relatively bulky. Highly directional, as well -- with the narrower beam, it will be much more important to hit the other station dead-on. You would probably use a beam outside the visible spectrum (to minimize visual signature), of some frequency optimized for minimal absorbtion by atmosphere and clouds. A lasercom is going to be an external system, possibly small enough to carry in an attache case, possibly vehicle-mounted. At a guess... A portable unit might be about the size of a camcorder, with an adjustable tripod mount to keep it stable while you point it at the geostationary satellite. (A low-orbit satellite would probably move too fast for you to stay on it with the small com unit for more than a second or so...) It would have a small visual display for (among other things) sighting-in visual cues. It would link via fiber-optic cable to an adapter plugged into the laptop's modem. You would need some way to locate the satellite -- without a portable dish, you probably wouldn't be able to do as with a standard comsat (aim in its general direction and rely on the signal strength to tell you when you're on target). (Possibly a satellite communications program in the DG computer could interface with your GPS receiver, and give you cues on where to point the lasercom...) Once you've acquired the comsat, you wouldn't have any problem, as long as you remain stationary. Mobile stations would require more equipment, such as a stabilized laser emitter and target that could continue to track, as your vehicle moved, possibly keeping the satellite updated with your changing position (through GPS?) for the duration of the contact. I would guess the mobile unit would have to be the one to initiate all communications via the satellite, as it won't know where to aim the beam until you establish the link. I think we've got a few comsat specialists on the DGML who could elaborate on (or possibly correct) these suggestions... Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum At 09:18 PM 5/20/2001 -0600, Bryan Fennell wrote: >Despite being one of the cooler ways to pass the time, there are some >problems with the Delta Green Mailing List. DGML has been operating fine for several years now. It might be nice to have some kind of moderation as we once had with Chris Womack, but a lack of moderation is nothing that reading the FAQ and taking a little personal responsibility won't solve. As for the rest of your complaints: There is no differing concepts by differing participants about what DGML is for - we have the FAQ, which is pretty clear. There may be some controversy over the grey areas in the FAQ, but a little self-control on one side and little patience on the other would serve us all well. I don't see posts being ignored on the basis of whether they are long or short, but mostly due to content. We have a way to sort and categorize posts by topic - it's called the Ice Cave, and I'm sure Davide could use your and anyone else's help in keeping it current. Posts may arrive out of order, but if take the moment to read all posts before replying, you might have less problems with this. And what's with the blue text? Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Re: L.A., City Hall, lizards...Monica Lewinsky?] In a message dated 5/20/01 9:13:02 PM Central Daylight Time, ialdaloboth@hotmail.com writes: > (shudders) jesus h. christ. Did the Doc take a u-turn into the realm of > Inasmuch as an already fictional character can, yes. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of CrossMLK@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 11:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Mythos Relations I don't know if anyone has talked about this on list before, but I'd like to get some opinions on how people see the various mythos races reacting to one another. For example, how would the Mi-go and Deep Ones relate if they were to happen to come into contact with one another. Mike Cross From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 11:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum In a message dated 5/20/01 10:50:30 PM Central Daylight Time, furrylogic@mindspring.com writes: > It might be nice to > No. No it wouldn't. As much as I enjoy the petty tyranny excercised on this list that lets me read 20 pages about Masonic sympolism in Titantic but not (godforbid) more mundane info that I could find anywhere else, I don't really hope to see it become endowed with official powers. Then comes the jackboots. ObDG: It all starts small. First, criticizing things you don't like. Then, maybe taking direct action. Then, finding like-minded people. It works for Cowboys, Karotechia, and Cultists. Maybe it's a meme... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: the DGML becomes a full blown forum Sigh. Time for that most boring of topics, "What's wrong with the DGML?" From: Bryan Fennell >>>Despite being one of the cooler ways to pass the time, there are some problems with the Delta Green Mailing List. These include: 1) Differing concepts by differing participants about what the DGML is for: Is it a place for in character interaction between players? Is it a place for rules expansions or clarifications, provided by my fellow players and not Pagan Publishing or Tynes-Cowan Inc. to be posted? How come I get in trouble for not talking about Call of Cthulhu or Delta Green in my posts?<<< This is all spelled out clearly (to me, anyway) in the FAQ. >>>How come so-and-so got mad at me for sending him/ her a message on their private e-mail?<<< It's odd, but it's happened to me, too. Some people are just like that. Has nothing to do with the List however--it's a private matter. >>>How much can I talk about what's been published so far, and how much can' t I say<<< Again, the FAQ makes this pretty clear--use spoiler warnings, especially for anything recent. Most people are doing fine on that, I think. Use the KEO label for things that'll be spoilers for players, but not Keepers. >>>2) Posts must be short to be of any use to players, since long ones produce the e-mail equivalent of highway hypnosis and get deleted. Yet short posts are ignored because of their brevity. Finding the happy medium is tough. <<< Yep. Don't see how switching to another forum would help, though. Here, I can only rely on my own perceptions. When I'm really busy, I do skip the longer posts unless they seem really interesting. If they do, and I don't have time to read, I print them out duirng lunch (on the backs of left-over student handouts, to be environmentally correct) and read them on the bus. Those which don't catch my eye often get deleted, with a silent apology to the sender. But how is this bad? I read the stuff that seems useful, and don't read the stuff that doesn't seem useful. >>>3) The forum is undirected, without a "moderator". Instead, participants moderate each other. While democratic, this leads to no small number of scuffles, due to people not wanting to listen to someone "just like them".<<< We've discussed before about changing back to a moderated system. Some are in favor, others aren't. I'm middle-of-the-road--I figure we can act like adults and treat each other that way, and we'll be OK. Mistakes will be made and we'll learn from them. But I wouldn't object to having an active moderator. And actually we do have a moderator: Alphonse. He just doesn't actively moderate, usually. If something is really bothering you, email him offlist about it, and he *will* take care of the problem. Quite fast and hard, too. >>>4) The DGML lacks a way to sort and catagorize posts by topic to enhance usefulness to participants.<<< This is indeed a major problem. We need a properly searchable archive, hopefully that can be viewed by both date and thread. The archives are just too big and unweildy. Davide Mana has created the invaluable Ice Cave, but it doesn't have everything (by design), and when things get busy in the Real World, it's hard for him to keep up, naturally. Of course, anyone with extra time on their hands could help him out, and it might be a good idea to make a mirror site, as Fortunecity isn't always the most reliable of providers (and the Ice Cave might get targeting by the Italian government, too). But a complete, searchable archive would be great. >>>5) Posts often arrive out of order. Some form of ordering, without having to read each post to pick up the thread of conversation, would be nice.<<< Huh? They arrive pretty much as in-order as they can, on my computer. Do you mean they should arrive threaded? Well, I guess that would be nice, but I've gotten used to reading posts this way, since it's how it works on every mailing list I've been on. >>>It's cool that there's the this private mailing list that only the hard core fans/ players can access. I'd be disappointed to lose that. Both Delphi and Ultimate Bulletin Board forums can have as many entrance restrictions as you'd like. If the web address were kept restricted to the Delta Green website, as access to the DGML is now, then none of the "cool" exclusiveness would be lost.<<< Again, huh? Anybody can join the DGML. Anybody can post, and as long as they don't violate the rules, they are generally welcomed. I don't see how changing to a Delphi forum would make things better in this regard. >>>What about cost? Who would pay for the forum? Both Delphi and Ultimate Bulletin Board forums are free, in exchange for advertising posted there.<<< I think this is what stopped us from changing over to eGroups (now Yahoo Groups) a year or so back. I was all for it, but IIRC the poll result was a resounding "no," and I think advertising had a lot to do with it. I think having to pay for it ($8 a month?? That's 6 times what I pay for my Pyramid subscription!) would be an even bigger turn-off. Maybe you and I can afford it, but we shouldn't assume that $8 is pocket change for all members, many of whom are students. Personally, from my experiences on Yahoo Groups, I wouldn't mind switching over to that at all. The advertising is a little annoying, but easily ignored. The archives are great, as is the ability to upload maps, documents, etc to share without having to post it to the list directly. And they have multiple digest options. >>>So how would a Delphi or Ultimate Bulletin Board forum help people know what the DGML is for? Both types of forum have subdivisions - topic lists, if you will - that are used for discussions on very specific topics. The X-Files forum has separate "folders" for major characters, fan fiction, off-topic or barely-related discussion, and even jokes. The Ultimate Bulletin Board also has separate lists, and both make it easy to start your own topic thread. Imagine, if you will, being a firearms enthusiast who wishes to discuss guns with fellow Delta Green players, but can't because its not an on-topic discussion. If the DGML were a Delphi forum, there could be a separate folder for discussion of weaponry.<<< Actually, the discussion of weaponry is not expressly forbidden--it's gunfondling that is strongly discouraged. See the Lizard King's "Gunfondling Guide," posted a few hours ago, for the difference. As for topic-specific side-discussions, we're already doing this--there's 2 side-lists on Yahoo Groups (Kurotokage and DGWW2) for special topics/projects, plus several PBEM campaigns. If somebody wanted to create a DG Gunfondlers List, cool. Go for it. It's very easy to create a side-list anytime on any topic and just notify the list at large about it. >>>Especially Ultimate forums, but Delphi as well, post messages in order of their receipt. You can't get them out of chronological order. Its impossible. This keeps things straight in your mind.<<< As I said above, I receive everything in chronological order already. However, when I was receiving my DGML posts on Yahoo mail, they did indeed arrive all mixed up, with some posts coming in days late. So I quite using Yahoo mail. I think maybe it's not the list, but your provider. Or perhaps the settings on your email software. >>>- one complaint I've heard on the DGML is that, since it's high traffic, you have to make sure every post counts -<<< Well, yeah, it would be nice if people made every post count. But again, this seems to be more a result of how people post, not how things are set up. >>>If the DGML became this sort of "official" forum, it would allow everyone to enjoy it so much more. Things could be divided up by topic, you could follow the threads of conversations better, you could comment exactly where you wanted to, instead of where you can (How often have you wanted to reply to the original post in that thread on Shub-Niggurath, instead of just the most recent part of it?)<<< Huh? yet again. How are you only able to respond to the most recent parts of threads? As long as I haven't deleted something, I can always respond to whichever post I want to--as I imagine anybody can. >>>and an official forum would be such a feast for the eyes, much more visually exciting than a string of e-mails (of course some of you may have dynamite desk tops...).<<< I checked out the X-Files forum (and the other one, but I got a "page not found" message)--it certainly is a flashy site, but rather slow-loading as a result. But maybe I'm misunderstanding--are these forums only readable over the Web? We wouldn't be receiving emails? If so, I definitely wouldn't want to go that way. My office computer has a way slow connection, and a lot of non-Americans have to pay by the minute for phone connections. (This is part of the reason for having a "no HTML" rule.) To sum up, I don't object to changing over to another list-server if it's better than what we've got. There are certainly some things, like a better archive system and digest options, that we could really, really use, and other things, like a file-storage area or the like, that would be nice additions. From looking at the X-Files forum, I personally think we'd lose more than we'd gain going that way--it looks to be online-only, which would make it very hard to use for some people. Dave The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Re: L.A., City Hall, lizards...Monica Lewinsky?] > > > (shudders) jesus h. christ. Did the Doc take a u-turn into the realm of > > > >Inasmuch as an already fictional character can, yes. Okay, just making sure. I was wondering when they were going to do something with the Realm of Fiction again. But boy... this is a weird one. J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:36 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum >From: EdDrWho@aol.com As much as I enjoy the petty tyranny excercised on this list >that lets me read 20 pages about Masonic sympolism in Titantic but not >(godforbid) more mundane info that I could find anywhere else, (chuckles) I was kind of wondering about that, myself. I'm starting to think that if you've been on the list since before it stopped being moderated, you can go off on whatever you'd like ad nauseum -- especially if its hard or theoretical science or guns. But if you just showed up, it better have an OBDG or it's "nonsense," and someone's going to bean you over the head with the FAQ. Case in point: some folks may not have appreciated that whole Predator/Alien thing. However, it got several folks to talk exobiology, alien morphology, race symbiosis and the like. While these may not have a clear, direct DG application, they can _only benefit_ those who play/run games where running into alien races and having to deal with them is a serious part of the action. That's Call of Cthulhu and Delta Green, last I checked. Now, if folks start circulating pyramid schemes, talking about their last, lost orgasm or try to get us to join the Shriners or give to stop the needless suffering of the radioactive, gay whale, then yes -- they're OT as hell, and feel free to smack them with the FAQ. But as long as the topic's close to the target, and could be used to foster the sorts of ideas that this game has (horror, science, madness, 'beyond' things, fringe, ufo's, weird shit) can we just lay off with the 'ewwww! what's this nonsense in my box?!?!?!' routine? J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Relations At 12:00 AM 5/21/2001 -0400, CrossMLK@aol.com wrote: >I don't know if anyone has talked about this on list before, but I'd like to >get some opinions on how people see the various mythos races reacting to one >another. For example, how would the Mi-go and Deep Ones relate if they were >to happen to come into contact with one another. I'm no Mythos scholar, but I'll take my best shot.... as far as I know, the only Mythos beings in HPL's works that are antagonistic towards each other are the Elder Things vs Cthulhu and/or the Mi-Go, the Yithians vs the flying polyps, and "those men associated with the Yellow Sign" vs the Mi-Go. I can't think of any other relationships unless you get into who worships what. This becomes a whole other ball of wax once you bring in Derleth and other Mythos writers. CALL OF CTHULHU might also have scenarios that set up relationships between creatures, but there are simply too many CoC scenarios for me to provide any answers from here. As for DELTA GREEN, there is a long relationship between the ghouls of New York and the Fate (there are a lot of hidden secrets in the Documents section of THE FATE chapbook), and the Mi-Go are using MJ-12 to take out any other "EBEs". I can't think of any others. Gil The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:05 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum At 05:35 AM 5/21/2001 +0000, ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* wrote: >Now, if folks start circulating pyramid schemes, talking about their last, >lost orgasm or try to get us to join the Shriners or give to stop the >needless suffering of the radioactive, gay whale, then yes -- they're OT >as hell, and feel free to smack them with the FAQ. By then, it will be too late. They'll just point to the M-60 thread, and ask why that is anymore on-topic than the gay whale thread. And they will be just as right as those claiming the theoretical physics threads give them right to post M-60 threads. >But as long as the topic's close to the target, and could be used to >foster the sorts of ideas that this game has (horror, science, madness, >'beyond' things, fringe, ufo's, weird shit) can we just lay off with the >'ewwww! what's this nonsense in my box?!?!?!' routine? An ObDG is what makes "the topic's close to the target". ObDG the M-60 thread*. It would still be deleted by a lot of non-gunfondlers, but at least it be in some way useful to someone playing/running DELTA GREEN. But without that ObDG, it's of no use. Gil *There was never any problem with the Aliens vs Predator thread. It was an attempt to use AvP in Delta Green, a viable topic. It was the M-60 sub-thread that was objectionable. The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:13 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum In a message dated 5/21/01 1:11:33 AM Central Daylight Time, furrylogic@mindspring.com writes: > By then, it will be too late. They'll just point to the M-60 thread, and > ask why that is anymore on-topic than the gay whale thread. And they will > be just as right as those claiming the theoretical physics threads give > them right to post M-60 threads. > > Anarchy! ANARCHY! It's dominoes! Damn those commie-fondling bastards! If we give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum I hate to contribute to something that's likely to turn into a flamewar, but... From: EdDrWho@aol.com >>>As much as I enjoy the petty tyranny excercised on this list that lets me read 20 pages about Masonic sympolism in Titantic but not (godforbid) more mundane info that I could find anywhere else, I don't really hope to see it become endowed with official powers. Then comes the jackboots. ObDG: It all starts small. First, criticizing things you don't like. Then, maybe taking direct action. Then, finding like-minded people. It works for Cowboys, Karotechia, and Cultists. Maybe it's a meme... <<< Yes, let's label people who don't agree with us fascists. We've heard your slippery-slope idea that the DGML COOFs are going to lead to the destruction of the free world before. What a wonderful method of argumentation. I really would like to get into why a post about cultist conspiracies in Hollywood might be more appropriate in this forum than an angry argument about the stopping power of glazers (which went on for days, and prompted the "no gunfondling" rule--see the archives), but I promised to stop that. It was useless anyway--it's like a 2nd-Amendment debate; both sides already know they're right. From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" > Case in point: some folks may not have appreciated that whole Predator/Alien > thing. However, it got several folks to talk exobiology, alien morphology, > race symbiosis and the like. While these may not have a clear, direct DG > application, they can _only benefit_ those who play/run games where running > into alien races and having to deal with them is a serious part of the > action. That's Call of Cthulhu and Delta Green, last I checked. IIRC, Gil's only objections were to the side-argument over which of the Aliens movies was the best, which is clearly silly and pointless in this forum, and about very tiny differences between guns. I didn't hear him objecting to exobiology, etc--in fact, I seem to remember him specifically un-objecting to it, pointing out that *that* is what's appropriate. > But as long as the topic's > close to the target, and could be used to foster the sorts of ideas that > this game has (horror, science, madness, 'beyond' things, fringe, ufo's, > weird shit) can we just lay off with the 'ewwww! what's this nonsense in my > box?!?!?!' routine? I think you're right, J. Edward, and I do agree that sometimes some of us old-timers go a bit far. I know I do, and I'm making a conscious effort to quit it. The "smackdown" approach seemed to work well in the old days (heck, it was kinda fun for both smacker and smackee, at least from my point-of-view as a sometime-smackee, and I learned a lot about netiquette really fast), but it just starts flamewars now. Just as everyone should ask themselves "How does this help the members of the DGML improve their game?" before they post, people who find something objectionable ought to think it over from the poster's point-of-view before they "lay the smackdown." What seems obviously on-topic to one can seem off-topic at first glance to another. And then maybe couch the objection in language that won't cause polarizing of positions, tempting some otherwise-reasonable folks to casually toss about uncalled-for and reprehensible labels, which prompts another response in kind... I'm not saying people shouldn't object to off-topic posts, just that we should think first of how it serves the whole list best. Let's play nice, now. Dave The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:45 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: DG: RE: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Robertson [mailto:andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 01:15 > To: dgrpg@delta-green.com > Subject: DG: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean > A question. I have heard that the Mesoamerican stone buildings were > sometimes built of stones that were "jigsawed" together. By > which mean > that they were not squared, but were of irregular > non-standardised shapes > precisely fitted together. > > Is it true? Hmm, I recently bought a book about castles and fortifications that contained pictures of such a wall. It certainly looked a bit ... weird. So it is definitely true. > > If so, how common was it, what was its function? Was it reserved for > certain classes of buildings? And how was it done? Unless someone else comes up with more detailed information (a web-site?) on this I'll dig up the book and see what it says about it. /JoB The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 3:14 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Re: L.A., City Hall, lizards...Monica Lewinsky?] ----- Original Message ----- From: EdDrWho@aol.com >>(shudders) jesus h. christ. Did the Doc take a u-turn into the realm of >>fiction, again? >Inasmuch as an already fictional character can, yes. Sherlock Holmes fictional? Blasphemy!! Actually, there is a City-on-the-edge-of-Forever sort of vibe about this. One can imagine a humanity revived and reconstructed by powerful aliens, or perhaps living inside a computer simulation, wherin fictional characters were as real as ordinary people. And even outside of that, I bet Sherlock Holmes is a presence in the Dreamlands. (Difficult to use, though - it would change the feel of the game - it would be a challenge to use SH in a Dreamlands context and *not* tip the players the wink) The Glove Cleaner The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 3:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum Dave wrote: >IIRC, Gil's only objections were to the side-argument over which of the >Aliens movies was the best, which is clearly silly and pointless in this >forum, and about very tiny differences between guns. I thought he was nixing the whole thing as 'nonsense,' but I guess I must have missed something in there. I apologize if I gave you jackboots, Gil. I'll second Dave's take on the way to handle it. Part of the problem with lists is that, sometimes, what's 'on topic' to some is way out in space to others, and vice versa. Every so often you're going to have obnoxious people who think anything they'd care to post to a list is something everyone else simply must know, but -- at least on the lists I belong to -- that's pretty rare. (Or maybe I'm just on the right lists to avoid such things? I joined a watersports thread once, but everyone was talking about enemas instead of high dives for some reason...) But yeah, take a look first. We're not at the 'join the shriners' level yet and I don't want to be there, but faq-smacking just looks... bad. J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 3:56 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Re: L.A., City Hall, lizards...Monica Lewinsky?] > >Sherlock Holmes fictional? Blasphemy!! My Keeper once dropped us off on an alternate earth where there were slight differences... including that there was a Sherlock Holmes who wrote the adventures of the doctor, mystic and spiritualist adventurer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. We didn't stay on that plane for long but it was interesting. > > >Actually, there is a City-on-the-edge-of-Forever sort of vibe about this. >One can imagine a humanity revived and reconstructed by powerful aliens, or >perhaps living inside a computer simulation, wherin fictional characters >were as real as ordinary people. Yes. Imagine the world recreated according to Clive Barker's novels and short stories. I'd love to live there but I think I'd spend most of my time indoors, away from things... just reading the paper and chuckling and what wasn't said. And even outside of that, I bet Sherlock >Holmes is a presence in the Dreamlands. (Difficult to use, though - it >would change the feel of the game - it would be a challenge to use SH in a >Dreamlands context and *not* tip the players the wink) I've often thought that while it may take a couple hundred years for things to 'set,' archetypes will always be represented. So you could have a well-educated fellow who can solve crimes that others cannot. Just have him smoke a long pipe, take certain, arcane drugs when he gets bored and have some pudgy but loyal fellow along for aid... um, yeah. I see the problem already. J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:14 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: the DGML becomes a full blown forum Greetings. Just two cents in the fountain for this proposal. Dave summed it up nice and closed it with... >To sum up, I don't object to changing over to another list-server if it's >better than what we've got. There are certainly some things, like a better >archive system and digest options, that we could really, really use, and >other things, like a file-storage area or the like, that would be nice >additions. From looking at the X-Files forum, I personally think we'd lose >more than we'd gain going that way--it looks to be online-only, which would >make it very hard to use for some people. There's a lot of places (Italy, for instance) in which you pay your phone bill in function of the time you spend on line. In a rough calculation I jotted down now, reading fifty messages from an on-line forum would cost me about thirty times what downloading fifty e-mails costs me at the moment. Cheapstake? Me? Of course. But all the money I spend on the phone I can't spend in books and games :> And anything I can read off-line I can reply off-line, giving me time for thinking out my points, give them a suitable format and checking the lot out for blatant grammar and spelling mistakes. For non-native speakers, replying to a post can be a lengthy process - yet another reason to avoid on-line posts. And what about those that check the DGML from their offices or schools? Ditto. But there's more. True, you get this mess of posts with silly headers and have to wade through them. Some (possibly many of them) you skip after skimming over the content. But sometimes - and it happens a lot to me - you open a message with a topic you would have not touched with a ten foot pole and find something interesting. Something good for your game or fiction writing, something about which you have something to say. This is a place for ideas to crosspollinate. The moment you rigidly separate topics, you lose the freshest part of the contributions - those provided by people that are not interested in such a topic, but might have some interesting insight on the whole matter. Finally, as for the lack of a moderator. There's pros and cons to that - I would not mind getting back in the days of Womack, but I'm feeling all right under Alphonse less pervasive (but equally masterful) administration. I've yet to witness a major breakup of chaos on this list - people getting all funny about guns are quaintly rural, but honest-to-goodness flames are another thing altogether. Let's pat each other on the shoulder then - we're managing fine. And this is it. Davide Mana Torino, Italy The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Morpheus [morpheus_76@usa.net] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:40 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean "Andy Robertson" wrote: > A question. I have heard that the Mesoamerican stone buildings were > sometimes built of stones that were "jigsawed" together. By which > mean that they were not squared, but were of irregular non- > standardised shapes precisely fitted together. > Is it true? Two weeks ago, I saw a TV show that documented the presence of these "jigsaw stones" in various geographical locations. I remember few of them : - the strange temple in front of the Sphynx - some viking archeological sites in the northern Europe - mayan pyramids - maybe other archeological sites in England These giants "bricks" were L-shaped in a very precise way. They were all very similar, despite the different locations; furthermore, they were usually very big and heavy (and so very difficult to handle). ObDG : Serpent Men magic for stone shaping ? Hypergeometric Masonry ? And what if these stones were used to make special cornerstones ? Angles = Hounds of Tindalos .... No links, for now. Just my 1/2 cents. Cheers. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:04 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Re: L.A., City Hall, lizards...Monica Lewinsky?] Greetings. The Glove Cleaner showed his true colours and wrote.... >Sherlock Holmes fictional? Blasphemy!! The idea of a fictional Holmes would mean Irene Adler is fictional, too. And I refuse to live in a universe in which Irene Adler is fictional. >Actually, there is a City-on-the-edge-of-Forever sort of vibe about this. >One can imagine a humanity revived and reconstructed by powerful aliens, or >perhaps living inside a computer simulation, wherin fictional characters >were as real as ordinary people. It was done, actually. The book is called "An East Wind Coming", by Arthur Byron Cover, Berkley Books 1979. Basically the premise is just as describe above - aliens come to Earth after an unspecified disaster (bacteriological IIRC) and grant immortality and a handful of other powers to the survivors. Many of these soon take up the roles of fictional characters - the Consulting Detective, the Universal Op, the Lawyer, the Fat Man, the Ace Journalist etc (due to copyright and libel laws Cover had to be less than explicit), while the rest settle for a weird mix of USA '50s/Victorian middle class condition. But the general state of mind of the inhabitants of the planet has a sort of feedback tie with the environment, so that as soon as ennui and frustration settle in, areas of the city of the immortals start going to seed, while some inhabitants react by going bad. Obviously, someone ends up taking the role of Jack the Ripper. And yet, the obvious Holmes vs Ripper development is deftly handed - probably the best take on the whole I ever read - and on the lot hangs the final menace of the end of time (aka heat death of the universe), so that the Holmes/Ripper bit takes on a rather complex subtext. You could see it as a sort of lower-key, less flamboyant (and ultimately more pessimistic) "Dancers at the End of Time", but the book has - now that I think back about it - a lot of Mythos potential. The setting is Carcosean in the extreme, and a character called the Tatterdemalion moves through the scenery, and is closely related with the overhanging entropy. Might be worth checking out, all things considered. Just FYI. Be seeing you. Davide Mana explored the pits of science fiction and came back for more Torino, Italy The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:42 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: DG: RE: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean I hunted a bit on the web (my book didn't have much information beyond the picture) and while I didn't find much info about it I did find some pictures. Check out these photos : http://www.geocities.com/jqjacobs/saxsay_1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/jqjacobs/saxsay_2.jpg and http://www.geocities.com/jqjacobs/saxsay_3.jpg They are taken at Saxsayhuaman, an Incan monument. The largest stone (the last link above) is 27 feet high and weigh somewhere between 120 and 360 metric tons. /JoB The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:52 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: DG: RE: RE: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonas Bolander (ERA) [mailto:Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 12:42 > To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' > Subject: DG: RE: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean > > > I hunted a bit on the web (my book didn't have much > information beyond the picture) and while I didn't > find much info about it I did find some pictures. > > Check out these photos : Oops, sort of missed out on the ObDG bit in that answer. So how about this : What if the blocks used to be nice, square-cut stones until something happened in the immediate vicinity that 'changed' them? Throw in an investigation of a modern brick building where the bricks no longer are what they used to be. Hmm, what/who could possibly create such a change in reality as a side-effect? Yog-Sothoth? Hastur? /JoB The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Ross Howard [r.howard@angelfire.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 11:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Relations (Countdown Spoiler) -- On Sun, 20 May 2001 22:22:11 Gil Trevizo wrote: >At 12:00 AM 5/21/2001 -0400, CrossMLK@aol.com wrote: >>I don't know if anyone has talked about this on list before, but I'd like to >>get some opinions on how people see the various mythos races reacting to one >>another. For example, how would the Mi-go and Deep Ones relate if they were >>to happen to come into contact with one another. the Mi-Go are using MJ-12 to take out any other "EBEs". I >can't think of any others. Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Speaking of Xenophobic Xenophobes, don't forgot the Insects from Shaggai and their manipulation of PISCES to wipe out other mythos entities in the UK. Again, that boils down to religious differences, but it's possibly the most extreme reaction of one modern day mythos group to all others. Ross Howard UK Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:16 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Gunfondling guide > Check > http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com/guns/revival.html You don't want to be like that do > you? Of course not! what´cha mean wiff "unshaved"? Legs, Armpits, corporeal openings...? festus (split) hairfondler __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:33 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: RE: RE: Re: Mesoamercan Cyclopean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonas Bolander (ERA)" Thanks for the pictures. Interesting, if not quite as non-euclidean as I hoped. > What if the blocks used to be nice, square-cut stones > until something happened in the immediate vicinity that > 'changed' them? Throw in an investigation of a modern > brick building where the bricks no longer are what they > used to be. But I have a feeling that the internal grain of these rocks does not show any distortion - the sort you might expect if they had been square-cut once and then warped. They don't look like that. But that does not mean that you can't have a recently and strangely warped brick building, which is a very sweeet idea indeed. Maybe these buildings and their odd-shaped rocks were in sober fact cut by human hands, but in imitation of something non-human which used authentically strange forces to warp rock. Maybe SOME of these ancient buildings DO show the internal grain warped, even if most are human imitations. (I wonder - RW - if this sort of masonry is tougher and better able to withstand earthquakes???) The Glove Cleaner The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:26 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: the DGML becomes a full blown forum One of the nice things about Yahoo!Groups is that you can select whether or not you wish to receive e-mails or a daily digest OR just check in at the web site to see and read what you will. The entires are threaded AND you can choose to receive mail either in HTML or NOT! Personally I prefer HTML because you can see pictures direct or use bold and italics at will. I realize HTML mail causes problems for some. On AOL I still have not found a way to send without HTML, for instance; but on YahooGroups you can choose to receive the mail with the HTML stripped away. A files section for uploading is also available on Yahoo and not available in our present surroundings. If DGML changes formats and location, I'll be there - it will be more pleasant without the bandwidth/html complaints (because recipients won't have to receive the html) and files could be uploaded and downloaded. If DGML stays where it is, I'll still be here too - but my posts will continue to come in HTML, because I cannot e-mail otherwise without going through another mail server. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Peter Devlin [pdevlin@axisanimation.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:35 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: NRO Delta / Urban Aliens / Predator And so it was written: > FWIW, I think they made a mistake in keeping the Alien arc in remote >locations. It didn't up the ante. SNIP > The subplot of the ubiquitous Company wanting to use them for >the Biowar >Division was introduced in Aliens. I would have taken the story back to >Earth > 1) So we could see the place > 2) So we could duke it out with Aliens in crowded circumstances where >nuking from orbit is not an immediate option. Police >splattering Aliens on >the 453rd floor of a residential complex and creating a lot of >collateral >damage to everyone living below as the blood of dozens of Aliens burns >through the ceilings. Neighborhoods quarantined and locked in >with Aliens. I'm just catching up with the backlog. This is an intriguing thought. Hold it whilst I type, and yes there is DG-relevance. Some years ago the effects / costume / props crew from the movie 'Aliens' brought their goodies (including a portion of the Nostromo set, original Alien costumes, original designers' models etc) to Glasgow for an SF convention and, later, a lengthier 'Alien War' exhibition. Conversations with them over alcohol led to confirmation of a few Hollywood rumours regards 'Aliens' and 'Alien3'. Also, Alan Dean Foster (another convention guest) had some critical stuff to say about 'Alien3' (which he had just finished reading prior to novellising) when plied with Scottish hospitality. YMMV with these, they are filed under 'allegedly': (1) Alien3 had at least 5 different screenplay/storylines written by various people. Amongst the rejects was a screenplay by William Gibson of 'Neuromancer' fame which allegedly brought the aliens to Earth for biowar research with subsequent escape, partial human-alien hybridisation etc etc. The intriguing part about this was that Gibson had used Geiger's original backstory for his alien creation i.e. that they were a highly intelligent race capable of fast learning, building communities, using tools etc. (See Geigers original artwork with alien families holding hands, walking in the park etc). That script was deemed too horror-movie-esque and allegedly Ms Weaver wanted something that gave her more on-screen big-budget stardom. Go figure. (2) Prior to release ADF reckoned that 'Alien3' was a turkey, boy was he correct; IIRC he felt there was a lost opportunity to have the zealot, apocalyptic convicts worshipping the alien! (3) Persistent rumour had it that the rejected aliens-in-the-city storyline was taken and adapted by the Thomases to give them the plotline for 'Predator 2'. If true it may have been one of those Hoolywood 'shaft-the-opposition' thangs. The DG relevance? Well, in the Earth-based script there was supposed to be a Company division not unlike NRO Delta, trying to squelch the alien mess as it happens. You don't need an alien race to make this happen in DG, you can have it as an accident during an MJ12 Cookbook experiment which spills DNA on the bio expert and mutates him to a predatory alien species. A Cookbook trap which results in alien genetic code overtaking the host? K'nYani sabotage of MJ12 facility? Misguided DG op? 'Save The Earth' protestors? Last reference: the DNA code trap is very similar to the big plot element from John Varley's 1970's 'Ophiuchi Hotline' novel. A twist might be to have the DNA sequence for the alien transmitted to a SETI project radio telescope from outside the solar system. MJ12 get involved during the subsequent investigation of the non-MJ12 funded research labs. Now doesn't that sound familiar, another Geiger inspired movie? Cheers. Peter Devlin Senior Systems Engineer Axis Animation 150 St Vincent Street Glasgow G2 5NE United Kingdom Phone: 0141 572 2802 Email: pdevlin@axisanimation.com The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:40 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: the DGML becomes a full blown forum > I think you're right, J. Edward, and I do agree that sometimes some of us > old-timers go a bit far. I know I do, and I'm making a conscious effort to > quit it. The "smackdown" approach seemed to work well in the old > days (heck, > it was kinda fun for both smacker and smackee, at least from my > point-of-view as a sometime-smackee, and I learned a lot about netiquette > really fast), but it just starts flamewars now. Just as everyone > should ask > themselves "How does this help the members of the DGML improve > their game?" > before they post, people who find something objectionable ought > to think it > over from the poster's point-of-view before they "lay the smackdown." What > seems obviously on-topic to one can seem off-topic at first glance to > another. And then maybe couch the objection in language that won't cause > polarizing of positions, tempting some otherwise-reasonable folks to > casually toss about uncalled-for and reprehensible labels, which prompts > another response in kind... I'm not saying people shouldn't object to > off-topic posts, just that we should think first of how it serves > the whole > list best. Having offended somewhat in the M60 thread, I will have to out in defense of "the way things are". I *like* the DGML just the way it is. I *don't* want an online reader, hate the damn things . The smackdown concept works just fine AFAIC, I have read the FAQ, and know when I am pushing the edge (done it before and I'll probably do it again ) but in general try to stay OnT. I would also say that when the FAQ specifically warns you about the smackdown effect (ala MIB) it might just make you think... FWIS, the DGML is one of the more "sedate" lists out there. Few to no flamewars (in two years I think I've only seen 1, mayby 2), very erudite commentary, and a whole lotta fun (mostly OnT, some OT). FWIW, I have no desire to go back to a moderator. Most moderated lists seem to breed the start of flamewars because people seem to assume that "they'll be warned..." if they are crossing the line of acceptable behaviour. That and then you are playing the moderators idea of what is acceptabel rather than the list's at large. David Been smacked down before, and doesn't even think that the response to the M60 thread even justifies the title... The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: RE: DG: NRO Delta / Urban  Aliens / Predator <> Joss Whedon's script for Alien:Ressurection was at least partly set on Earth, but the producers decided to save the big 'Aliens on Earth' storyline for the next movie. It could still happen your way, Mark. <<(1) Alien3 had at least 5 different screenplay/storylines written by various people. Amongst the rejects was a screenplay by William Gibson of 'Neuromancer' fame which allegedly brought the aliens to Earth for biowar research with subsequent escape, partial human-alien hybridisation etc etc.>> There's a Gibson draft of Alien 3 knocking about the net soemwhere (think it's on Drew's Script o' Rama - no URL, sorry). In that, Gibson sets up a 'Cold War' analogue, with two ideologically opposed power blocs in space, vying for some kind of edge against the other. Both sides get a hold of alien specimens and both attempt to create newer, deadlier breeds of the species aboard huge space habitats (complete with civillians, shopping malls, parks etc). The Soviet stand-ins create a bigger/stronger/faster variant of the aliens, whilst the United Systems (or whatever) boffins add wierd new reproduction cycles into the alien (including a fungi/spore thingumy that turns you into an alien/human hybrid when you breathe them in). To be frank, I didn't like it. <<(2) Prior to release ADF reckoned that 'Alien3' was a turkey, boy was he correct; IIRC he felt there was a lost opportunity to have the zealot, apocalyptic convicts worshipping the alien!>> Originally (so I'm told) Vincent Ward (who was supposed to direct Alien 3,and is the guy who came up with the religious convicts angle) had something like this going on, including a civil war erupting between two rival religious factions on the base (some wanted to worship the alien, some didn't). Apparently they also threw around some ideas about introducing a 'king' alien. <<3) Persistent rumour had it that the rejected aliens-in-the-city storyline was taken and adapted by the Thomases to give them the plotline for 'Predator 2'. If true it may have been one of those Hoolywood 'shaft-the-opposition' thangs.>> Don't know about this - Predator 2 follows the plot of the original Predator comic *extremely* closely - to the point where some dialogue even seems to be lifted directly. Also - anybody else clock the alien head in the second Predator's trophy room? __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Hans-Christian Vortisch [greytiga@zedat.fu-berlin.de] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: German DG translation This is for German speakers only - mail me off-list: Ich wurde von Pegasus als Übersetzer von DELTA GREEN ausgewählt; noch ist völlig offen, welche Bücher wie übersetzt werden. In Kürze soll ich dem Verlag ein Konzept vorlegen - diesbezüglich ergeben sich einige Fragen, bei denen ich gerne etwas Unterstützung der geschätzten DGML hätte - Eckhard und Festus, oder gibts noch andere? Tschö HANS The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bruce Harada [bruce@ask.ne.jp] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: RE: DG: NRO Delta / Urban _Aliens / Predator On Mon, 21 May 2001 09:01:06 -0400 stabernide@netscape.net (Nick Brownlow) wrote: > <<3) Persistent rumour had it that the rejected aliens-in-the-city storyline > was taken and adapted by the Thomases to give them the plotline for > 'Predator 2'. If true it may have been one of those Hoolywood > 'shaft-the-opposition' thangs.>> > > Don't know about this - Predator 2 follows the plot of the original Predator > comic *extremely* closely - to the point where some dialogue even seems to > be lifted directly. > > Also - anybody else clock the alien head in the second Predator's trophy > room? Considering that the working title for the original Predator was "Alien Hunter" (which can be taken two ways), the presence of the Alien head didn't really surprise me in the second movie. Personally speaking, though, I don't particularly like crossovers - it tends to start off with "it'd be cool to bring in this, and maybe this, and how about this too?", and ends up with the players not knowing what game, exactly, they're supposed to be playing. Also, I think it tends to destroy the players' suspension of disbelief - it's hard enough wrapping your head around MJ-12, Byahkee and Cthulhu, without having to deal with acid-blooded aliens and safari-hunter lizards that have no real place in the Mythos. ObDG: If I *were* to do a crossover, I'd go for something that has the sense of "mystery" that's always been my favourite part of the Mythos. It's not big, bad and nasty because its DNA was engineered that way - it's like that because it comes from a Dimension Beyond Human Understanding(TM)! Bruce The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/