From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Philip_Ward@yestelevision.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 3:51 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] List 'B' Dave Farnell Wrote: > Shane, as the new Listowner, can you sign it up? As Nick points out, it was > pretty useful. Eek, dont do that! If you do that, it'll start bouncing all the posts back to the list again, because the listserver isn't allowed to post to the Yahoo group, etc. It'll all go into a feedback loop, and explode faster than a Majestic spaceship flipped onto it's back. Oh, and if this post doesn't show up in plain text, could somebody please mail me off-list and tell me. We've had a mail-system "upgrade" Cheers, Phil ********************************************************************** This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or privileged information and should not be read, copied or otherwise used or disseminated by any unauthorised person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Yes Television (Europe) Ltd . If you are not the named recipient, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail from your system. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:15 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Gurkhas, Gurkhas, Gurkhas [some spoilers, but not too many} <> I understand there's an occupational template for the Royal Gurkha Rifles in a forthcoming edition of The Black Seal (correct me if I'm wrong, Adam). Meanwhile, take a look at;- http://www.army.mod.uk/army/organise/infan/gurkha/ <> They are. As you point out yourself, it says so in COUNTDOWN. <> ? When most people talk about Gurkhas, they're actually talking about the Royal Gurkha Rifles - which is just a regiment of the British Army (you don't even have to be Nepalese to join), and not some kind of independent entity. It was these guys (or their predecessors - the Brigade of Gurkhas) that PISCES used in the Goatswood action. It seems unlikely to me that anyone other than PISCES will be utilising British Army regiments in the fight against the mythos. No doubt Agent Turner can fill you in on some juicy Army gossip about the Gurkhas. There is (or possibly was) also a Gurkha regiment in the Indian Army. Of the two, it was always the British Army regiment that had the most kudos, however, because a British Army pension constitutes a tidy wage in Nepal (and if you're ever in Kathmandu, you'll see that many of the better resteraunts, bars, hotels etc are owned by ex-British Army Gurkhas). In Nepal the Gurkhas (or I think more accurately 'Gorkhas' or 'Gorkhalis' - because they're from Gorkha) are actually an ethnic group - and one of the dominant ones. It was the Ghorkas who established the state of Nepal in the 18th Century (which was previously four seperate kingdoms). They also led the Nepalese Army against the British in the Anglo-Nepalese war (it was during this war that a British captive of the Ghorkas decided that if he got out of this alive, he was going to recruit some of these guys). It's important not to confuse the Ghorka 'people' with the Gurkha regiments - not being a Ghorka has never been an obstacle to recruitment in either the British or Indian Army regiments. The Ghorkas themselves aren't particularly mysterious or handy in a fight - they're among the ruling classes of Nepal (or were- the term Gorkha itself doesn't mean much anymore outside of its historical context, as I understand it). __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Too many test posts Cheers. Yes this is a test, too. Sure as hell this list is silent. Am I the only one doing a Cinderella tour of duty while the family's on vacation? > Or in the years since this list was created, have we exhausted all there > is to say about DG? Well, if we did, sure the Strange Aeons list has not exhausted what's there to say about DGML. > > I was there as a lurker for a short time and I've never seen such a > > list. If you ask a question that you hadn't spent hours researching > > in their archives, you got flamed. If you asked an opinion of some > > rule or setting, you were accused of trolling. The flamers seemed to > > be an elitist group that thought it cute to pounce on new members of > > the list. After about 2 weeks, I had enough. It was funny in the > > 9th grade locker room, but not in the grown up world. And more like this. Baffling, really. I say we get there with axe-handles and chains and mess up their den.... ;> But seriously - anyone's up for a nice discussion of subjectivity of perception in social situations, with the appropriate applications to a DG scenario? To wit - we tend to perceive what we expect. Expect a tough bunch of hostile mothers and you'll not get the joke, and probably leave the premises. Expect a nice companionable atmosphere and you'll shrug off personal offences, taking them for rough, masculine humor. Now, think about the two opposite attitudes towards the Grays in general, RW circles. Sex-obsessed cattle mutilators here to harvest us, or the benign guides towards a future New Age paradise? Memetic conditioning both? Did MJ and DG play mind games with the world at large? And what are we missing in the whole thing? Just some general questions hoping there's someone to pick up the discussion. Davide Mana elitist Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:40 AM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] "Saint" Teresa http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1491000/1491694.stm Mother Teresa is on the fast track to Sainthood (first step, Beatification). Firstly, no offence intended to those with deeply held religious beliefs. MT was, in my eyes, quite evil. She witheld medicine and care towards the sick, unless they converted to Christianity. DG relevance? I'll tell you: Think cult of Shub-Niggurath, or something else. Raise money back home with respectable fronts, and send missions to places of famine or disease. How about the Milk of the Mother being used as a "treatment" for leprosy, for instance? However, you only get the care and treatment, if you convert to the Goddess. People dying of leprosy, seeing other people they know coming out of the clinic fully cured, or in remission, is going to be a very powerful incentive to sign up for the 12 step gibbering process. 100's, 1000's of Goddess worshipers in one area is one hell of a lot of magic points to draw on. Think what the priesthood could do with that kinda power... Jon -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Too many test posts At 11:05 PM 8/14/2001 +0200, Davide Mana wrote: >Well, if we did, sure the Strange Aeons list has not exhausted what's >there to say about DGML. > >> > I was there as a lurker for a short time and I've never seen such a >> > list. If you ask a question that you hadn't spent hours researching >> > in their archives, you got flamed. If you asked an opinion of some >> > rule or setting, you were accused of trolling. The flamers seemed to >> > be an elitist group that thought it cute to pounce on new members of >> > the list. After about 2 weeks, I had enough. It was funny in the >> > 9th grade locker room, but not in the grown up world. > >And more like this. >Baffling, really. Not really. It is actually pretty accurate from one perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if that is one of the reasons why the list is as inactive as it is. How long was it before the cycle of a flurry of off-topic posts followed by smackdown followed by tense silence reared its ugly head here since the list got reactivated? Not too long. And they are absolutely right about the elitist thing. Strange-Aeons has nowhere to talk on this though, as flamewars are a way of life there too. The difference is, their flamewars are over the historical accuracy of Gladiator, which they will go on for a hundred-post thread, whereas our flamewars are about the off-topicness of such posts. My advice is to invest in a filter-capable email program and let people do what they will do. Has done wonders for my reading experience. I'd use it to resubscribe to SA, except what would be the point? I'd have to killfile most of the list and get about two posts a week with any actual CoC content. As for smackdowns, I admire the intent but they create too many hurt feelings without any lasting result. We destroy the village to save the village. Very DGesque attitude, actually... maybe we should chuck the COOF label and when this happens we can instead call it "cowboying up a thread". ObDG: There is none. This is a thoroughly off-topic post. God knows, after all the hours spent archiving for Ice Cave and working on DGWW2, I think I deserve one or two. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:28 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Too many test posts Greetings. Boy, is this silence getting deafening..... >As for smackdowns, I admire the intent but they create too many hurt >feelings without any lasting result. We destroy the village to save the >village. Very DGesque attitude, actually... maybe we should chuck the >COOF label and when this happens we can instead call it "cowboying up a >thread". This one gets my vote. And here I cut this short before I'm given a Tar&Feathers treatment - for some reason, that's how I visualize the "cowboying" of a thread. Be seeing you. Davide Mana lost in Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shaneivey@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:24 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] List 'B' > If you do that, it'll start bouncing all the posts back to the list again, > because the listserver isn't allowed to post to the Yahoo group, etc. No, I've fixed that particular glitch, thank goodness. I'm the only one who gets error messages if email bounces from a bogus address. Whoever owns the Yahoo! egroup is welcome to sign up with it following the usual steps. Not owning that list, though, I don't want to try signing it up myself. > are we > going to be able to have a Digest version, stuff like that? If we had a > more-readily searchable Archive, that DGMLDISCUSSION list could > even become unnecessary. I'm looking into automating that process and making it searchable, but I can't give you an estimate on when it might get implemented. Too many other irons in the same crowded fire. - Shane Ivey R E V O L U T I O N s f the revolution in sci-fi http://revolutionsf.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:47 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Too many test posts At 08:55 AM 8/15/2001 +0100, Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord wrote: >I did actually make _three_ content posts to the lists, but got nothing >back, until I did my test post. Strangely, only the test post got through. Well, to be honest, the posts that are on a news story often don't provoke response, or at best, are fifty-fifty on that score. >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1482000/1482337.stm > >Mary Celeste's wreck found. Most of what people think is the legend is in >fact the ficitionalisation by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. However, all the >paranoid fantasies, sorry, theories which surround the story make for good >nuggets of plot device. Indeed they do. 1872 is too early even for P Division, but it's not a stretch that some young officer that would later become an admiral and a patron for such an oddball unit as P Div would be part of the investigation of the Mary Celeste. Deep One involvement would be a good fit. Another thing to pick up from the article is the presence of Clive Cussler. A Cussleresque figure would make an excellent friendly for DG ops - rich popular writer who loves to blow money on exotic undersea ops. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:59 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] "Saint" Teresa At 11:40 AM 8/15/2001 +0100, Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord wrote: >DG relevance? I'll tell you: Think cult of Shub-Niggurath, or something >else. Raise money back home with respectable fronts, and send missions >to places of famine or disease. How about the Milk of the Mother being >used as a "treatment" for leprosy, for instance? However, you only get >the care and treatment, if you convert to the Goddess. > >People dying of leprosy, seeing other people they know coming out of >the clinic fully cured, or in remission, is going to be a very powerful >incentive to sign up for the 12 step gibbering process. Something like this is mentioned in the Delta Green sourcebook under the Emil Furst bio, where his Special Forces team was in Uganda investigating an aid station that turned out to be a cult of Glaaki, with thousands of AIDS victims streaming to embrace Glaaki. My wife nearly took employment with the Christian humanitarian organization, World Vision (when you're a laid-off dot commer, you get desperate). Though she is a practicing Lutheran, even she had issues with the amount of "spiritual development" the company required their employees to participate in. Besides the Oath of Faith (basically a modernized rewriting of the Apostolic Creed), employees had to attend weekly services and daily prayer meetings where they would need to discuss their own "spiritual growth". It gets weirder when you look World Vision's history. They have long been reputed to work hand-in-hand with the CIA, providing a cover for their agents working in the Third World countries World Vision is sending aid to. Hinckley, Reagan's would-be-assassin, was connected to World Vision through his father, a high-ranking executive in the organization and close friend of George Bush the Elder. Mark David Chapman, the guy who offed John Lennon, was an employee of World Vision. World Vision was responsible for settling refugees from Southeast Asia on the site of the Jonestown Massacre. Most Mythos cult have fallen in the New Age realm, which, if we take the example of Scientology, targets the affluent to gain needed revenue and political power. But if there was Mythos cult behind an evangelical institution, they would target the poor and disenfranchised out of a "humanitarian" cover. I have many ideas for creating a Mythos-driven World Vision style organization. More on this later (probably much later, with all the work on my table). Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:59 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Too many test posts Greetings again.... >Another thing to pick up from the article is the presence of Clive >Cussler. A Cussleresque figure would make an excellent friendly for DG >ops - rich popular writer who loves to blow money on exotic undersea ops. I used something like that in a non-DG game (Castle Falkenstein was the flavour of the month), as a recurring complication for the team. Rich dilettante, blowing lots of money to investigate mysteries and then writing (mostly bogus) bestseller accounts of his adventures. Believe me - can turn into a nightmare. Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 3:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) > Indeed they do. 1872 is too early even for P > Division, but it's not a > stretch that some young officer while reading the last posts and links on sailships, gurkas in the indian empire and tarred and feathered cowboys, i suddenly started thinking if anybody of you survivors out there ever tried a dg-like campaign in somne gaslight surrounding, eg the british colonial forces somewhere remote, the us cavalry on the western frontier, the london metropolitan police... or even in their space 1899 counterparts. i once thought about a german imperial navy campaign around ponape, but never got far enough. festus __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 3:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) Greetings. YES! YES! ehm.... sorry. festus wrote > > Indeed they do. 1872 is too early even for P > > Division, but it's not a > > stretch that some young officer > >while reading the last posts and links on sailships, >gurkas in the indian empire and tarred and feathered >cowboys, i suddenly started thinking if anybody of you >survivors out there ever tried a dg-like campaign in >somne gaslight surrounding, eg the british colonial >forces somewhere remote, the us cavalry on the western >frontier, the london metropolitan police... >or even in their space 1899 counterparts. > >i once thought about a german imperial navy campaign >around ponape, but never got far enough. Ah, the past! I once ran a short-lived horror/conspiracy campaign set in the Elizabethan era, featuring a sort of ante-litteram PISCES. It was done using a home-grown system (featuring the dreaded D69 for stats generation) and lots of spurious material for background. It rocked, briefly. And it made the watching of "Elizabeth" so much funnier..... More to the point, being a fan of Victorian adventure, I often toyed with a Victorian Conspiracy game, but never came to fully develop it. Some of my earlier attempts were mentioned on this list, too. The closer I got to actually doing it was running an early 1800s game (set in India) in which the players blundered so spectacularly (basically siding with the bad guys through-out the scenario) that worst came to worst; in the following game, I stuck the sons and daughters of those same characters in a Deadlands campaign, explaining the Weird West as the result of the EndTimes. Men in Black Dusters and the like featured massively. It all sort of made sense, but was not wholly satisfactory. Oh, and I ran "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" (almost exactly as per comic book series), using The Window as the system of choice. I still think I'll be able to develop something more to my tastes sooner or later. My main misgiving with most available steampunk material is a distinct lack of the punk element - that is, the true and drastic extremization of the worst elements of the steam-powered civilization. You get some of that in "TLoEG", but it's still too little. The conspiracy element has also to be adapted - trying to develop a Roswell-like scenario using Welles' Martians sure sounds charming, but it's not that easy. XIX century conspiracies were mostly dynastic in scope and development - the point of the game was getting the right individual on the right throne, and all the rest would follow. But I still work on it, on-off - I collect steampunk-themed games, read fiction and make plans. And one of these nights.... So let's keep talking of this - I'll take notes.... Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] DGML Smackdown: Re: DGML TEST First the content: I have been toying with the idea of a mobile lab for DG to use on long term OPS 'a la X files the movie. Currently our campaign has three fixed facilities "private" labs one in Europe and two in the US. I envision about (2) 40' semi trailers that sit in a storage depot until needed. At the direction of "A" cell the trailers are driven/airlifted to the necessary area. A DG security team (from operational support) rents and preps a warehouse to assemble the lab. Hire a team of temp labor to assemble the "bubble tents" and the negative air pressure HVAC system. When the trucks arrive the assembled DG research cell finishes installing the equipment and is ready to receive and contain samples. Cost: a ton of money This will not work for the DG-on-a-shoestring campaign. Most organizations keep the more expensive scientific gear in use 24/7 to recoup the initial outlay of purchasing the equipment. In our campaign DG fundage is made up of roughly 25% from front organizations run by agents and retiree's (a used car lot chain, a hotel chain...Hotel 9; "Don't turn the light out" and a wilderness adventure ranch ...read this as a covert training facility), 25% from invested currency and the few dribs and drabs of black ops discretionary funds buried within the national budget while we were still legit, and 50% from resources acquired from operations. Most of the lab equipment was "acquired" during operations. Benefit: knowledge and potential cash flow Rather than use rented or borrowed labs, shipping samples elsewhere (security risk) and involving people who should never be in the know, we can perform our own testing. Benefit over a fixed facility is that is mobile, we can handle some mythos materials with a degree of safety anywhere in the world. Contact a friendly in MATS and commander a Galaxy jet and you are off to anywhere in the world we can land the jet. Like the "MIB" movie we may learn a thing or two in the lab that can result in patents under cover companies to produce revenue. Of course if the team becomes to dependant on the lab you can always blow it up for a quick thrill and a plot point. Some Links: for those non-scientifically minded (like me) http://www.labx.com/ http://www.seeinc.com/ http://chemengineer.about.com/cs/labware/index.htm Now the non content comment: Having been smacked down by DGML a few times in the past I can see things from both ends. Smacking someone down for a post inhibits that person from wanting to post again. Esp those individuals who are new as far as DG is concerned or are on the young end of the age scale. If we set up barriers to new players or keepers in a few years the list will be come extinct. Just ask anyone attending a church with 99% of the membership over the age of 65. I attempted to penetrate a VAMPIRE LARP once in my younger days and was driven out by ridicule for not playing with the unwritten rules. THE OTHER HAND, I personally tend to take all negatively presented comments and search out their validity, as the adult thing to do. If they are valid I take the hint, if they are not valid I tend to look at the reasons behind the comments and leave it at that. ...Sometimes you just hit people on the wrong day... Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [Re: [DG] "Saint" Teresa] >the amount of "spiritual development" the company required their >employees >to participate in. Besides the Oath of Faith (basically a modernized >rewriting of the Apostolic Creed), employees had to attend weekly >services >and daily prayer meetings where they would need to discuss their own >"spiritual growth". >....reputed to work hand-in-hand with the CIA... What better to assure your agents loyalty than to bind them to the cause through moral imperatives and check on their indoctrination through the use of group meetings where attendees share their fears, hopes and misdeeds..... coming from a "fundamental right" back ground... Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:49 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) <> Had grand plans once for a Steampunk/High adventure/CoC campaign once. Mi-Go sabotage of the 1900 moon shot, airship assaults on the Plateau of Leng, Thuggee cult trying to assasinate Queen Victoria - that kind of thing. Never quite got off the ground though. Probably for the best. <> I tend to agree; I quite liked Di Filippo's 'Trilogy', but I'm not sure if that'd qualify as 'punk' though. And there's definitely a yawning gap in my collection of fiction for a no holds barred steampunk cum-horror novel. If I ever had a crack at doing this sort of thing again, the thing that would really appeal to me would be running through the Golden Dawn sourcebook in a Steampunk world. <> Please keep us informed... __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) Greetings again. ><lack of the punk element - that is, the true and drastic extremization of >the worst elements of the steam-powered civilization>> > >I tend to agree; I quite liked Di Filippo's 'Trilogy', but I'm not sure if >that'd qualify as 'punk' though. And there's definitely a yawning gap in >my collection of fiction for a no holds barred steampunk cum-horror novel. DiFilippo's trilogy is probably too hip for my tastes, but it does have a nice charge of extremism that might do good to the genre. The best available so far in the steampunk/horror is probably Kim Newman's "Anno Dracula", which is fine all things considered. >If I ever had a crack at doing this sort of thing again, the thing that >would really appeal to me would be running through the Golden Dawn >sourcebook in a Steampunk world. Yes, that has potential. Also, it allows you to bring in the game characters that are already a bit non-conformist by Victorian standards. ><fiction and make plans. >And one of these nights....>> > >Please keep us informed... Oh, I will. But don't hold your breath - I've quite a busy schedule.... Davide Mana letting off steam in Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Free reading matter (if dated) Cheers! While I wait for the server to allow me an update of the Cave's freebie page, parties looking for cheap reading matter should point their browsers here http://www.blackmask.com/ So, ok, they have most of The Shadow and Doc Savage, but the rest of the stuff is good, too. Good selection of old gothic stories (some HPL too) Check this out. Davide Mana If it's free it can't be that bad _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Chris Womack [jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:41 PM To: deltagreen revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) on 8/15/01 5:48 PM, Nick Brownlow at stabernide@netscape.net wrote: > [...] And there's definitely a yawning gap in my > collection of fiction for a no holds barred steampunk cum-horror novel. Well, depending on your tastes you might try chucking Martha Wells' _The Death of the Necromancer_ at that gap. You might find that it fills it satisfactorily--or you might just see it disappearing into the void. Okay, so it's more magicpunk than steampunk, but the pseudo-Victorian pseudo-France setting is decently done. At the very least you can mine it for a machinations-of-the-evil-sorceror-from-beyond-the-grave thang, a good ol' storyline standby that can be worked for a modern-day DG game just as well as a 19th-c. Proto-DG scenario. C Chris Womack jcwomack@earthlink.net Keeper of the DGML (Ret'd.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:27 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DGML Smackdown: Re: DGML TEST "In our campaign DG fundage is made up of >roughly 25% from front organizations run by agents and retiree's (a used car >lot chain, a hotel chain...Hotel 9; "Don't turn the light out" and a >wilderness adventure ranch ...read this as a covert training facility), 25% >from invested currency and the few dribs and drabs of black ops discretionary >funds buried within the national budget while we were still legit, and 50% >from resources acquired from operations. Most of the lab equipment was >"acquired" during operations." I found this extremely informative, since it makes the funding of DG activities more plausible and less problematic. To date, the funds my players have used for operations have been as the result of creative accounting, which has worked nicely to ratchet up the paranoia, since there's nothing like drawing down with the Mythos on Monday, and then having to explain to the General Accounting Office on Friday what happend to a million in cash, three cars, and a handful of personnel. "Something icky" doesn't always work. As an aside, the trigger-happy vigilante from Marvel Comics, the Punisher (who is crying out to be used as a DG friendly) funds his war on crime by seizing money from the criminals he kills. I guess :and 50% >from resources acquired from operations. Most of the lab equipment was >"acquired" during operations." its not such a new idea after all. I also found your comments on folks getting smacked down both enlightened and mature. I hope your attitude spreads. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) During a brief delusion of self importance in the early 1990s, I tried my hand at creating my own role playing game. When it turned out to be basically an expansion of Call of Cthulhu, I gave up in mortification. However, one of the most interesting spin-offs, and one that applies directly here, was the use use of time travelers. Without going into too much (boring) detail, the introduction scenarios (to get the PCs experienced) involved their being part of a group of time travelers brough back in time to the Victorian era covered by the CoC "Gaslight" supplement, there to battle a race of beings from "outside", while maintaining their cover lest they alter history. The "hero" of the game, the most important NPC, has discovered time travel, and had been amusing himself with it. However, he discovered that all of his time travel had weakened an extradimensional barrier and allowed an alien race sort of like the Mongolian horde meets Star Trek's Klingons to emerge from a point outside time to the Victorian era, and to begin their nefarious plans for conquest there. naturally, th hero had to push them back "outside" time to save the future his own larking around with time travel had jeopardized. The payoff... This might be a way to run a Delta Green type scenario in pre-P Division times or earlier. One could use one of the mechanisms for time travel discussed in "Gaslight" to move modern heroes back to the historical era the Keeper is most interested in. The mechanism of having to fit into the times they found themselves lest they unravel history was a great deux ex machina est to get my players to role play. ">> > Indeed they do. 1872 is too early even for P >> > Division, but it's not a >> > stretch that some young officer >> >>while reading the last posts and links on sailships, >>gurkas in the indian empire and tarred and feathered >>cowboys, i suddenly started thinking if anybody of you >>survivors out there ever tried a dg-like campaign in >>somne gaslight surrounding, eg the british colonial >>forces somewhere remote, the us cavalry on the western >>frontier, the london metropolitan police... >>or even in their space 1899 counterparts." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:34 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Too many test posts On a computer, far, far away, Gil Trevizo wrote: > At 08:55 AM 8/15/2001 +0100, Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord wrote: > >I did actually make _three_ content posts to the lists, but got nothing > >back, until I did my test post. Strangely, only the test post got through. > Well, to be honest, the posts that are on a news story often don't provoke > response, or at best, are fifty-fifty on that score. I was meaning that I didn't see my posts appear on the list, even though I could see other people's posts. I did my test post, and that miraclously appeared, and everything has been hunky-dory since. It was just like the problem I had earlier in the year, when the listserver was rejecting my posts, 'cos it didn't like the way our mailer was re-writing my headers. Jon -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:53 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [KEO] TOME: House of Leaves (was Re: [DG] Too many test posts) > 4. _The Navidson Record_: Like _The King in Yellow_, _The Navidson Record_ > doesn't exist, even in Johnny Truant's world. But it could exist in yours. > This is the documentary film described in detail by _House of Leaves_, > revealing the explorations of a house that is bigger on the > inside than the I think this is the only proper path to take in converting this book to a Mythos experience. I had picked it up on a recommendation and was rather disappointed. The author seemed to be going for some sort of hook with the revelation that nothing in the book was real but this for me just ruined the overall effect. I mean, imagine Call of Cthulhu was written through the additional filtration of a man who discovered the original manuscript and said "nothing in this is real, there is no cthulhu, nobody in the manuscript knew about this old professor but now I'm devoting my life to understanding his rantings." Bah. I know it ain't real but when the character in the story says it ain't real then what's the bloody point in reading it? Personally I think the whole thing would have been a more interesting read if we chopped out all the Johnny drugfiend sections and stuck with what went on in the video. The concept of the house was pretty damn neat. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) ">>I tend to agree; I quite liked Di Filippo's 'Trilogy', but I'm not sure if >>that'd qualify as 'punk' though. And there's definitely a yawning gap in >>my collection of fiction for a no holds barred steampunk cum-horror novel. > >DiFilippo's trilogy is probably too hip for my tastes, but it does have a >nice charge of extremism that might do good to the genre." I've read at this stuff, but as far as I'm concerned, its all the palest reflection of "The Difference Engine", by Sterling and Gibson. Sometimes, there can, and should be, genres limited to a single work by a single author, and I think this "steam punk" business qualifies. Anyone looking for a take on a "Hastur Mythos near miss" should read Bill Gibson's "Gernsback Continuum", but I suppose that's already occurred to everyone else here. ">The best available so far in the steampunk/horror is probably Kim Newman's >"Anno Dracula", which is fine all things considered." Pretty damn fine if you ask me, but it ain't steam punk or horror...or cyberpunk or just plain punk, come to that. It has no genre, although the closest one could come would be an alternate history fantasy. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 2:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [KEO] TOME: House of Leaves (was Re: [DG] Too many test posts) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Muir" > The author seemed to be going for some sort of hook with the > revelation that nothing in the book was real but this for me just ruined the > overall effect. I mean, imagine Call of Cthulhu was written through the > additional filtration of a man who discovered the original manuscript and > said "nothing in this is real, there is no cthulhu, nobody in the manuscript > knew about this old professor but now I'm devoting my life to understanding > his rantings." Bah. I know it ain't real but when the character in the story > says it ain't real then what's the bloody point in reading it? Yeah, and 'American Beauty' is narrated by a dead guy, so what was all that about, huh? And 'Rashomon.' What the fuck, can't those people get their story straight? And what was up with the ending of 'Brazil?' It was all a dream? What a rip-off! Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:26 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) The DGML strays inadvertantly into lit-crit again - only bad things can come of that.... <> Bit hard on K.W Jeter isn't it? (what the hell; he wrote a 'sequel' to Blade Runner - he deserves it ;)) Much as I love Gibson, and especially Sterling, I think The Difference Engine is one of their more mediocre efforts. Despite the obviously painstaking research (which makes it a nice 'sourcebook' for Steampunk generally), they don't really manage to capture the feel of the Victorian era for me (and some of the dialogue is just downright atrocious). One thing that strikes me about steampunk-ish stuff is that it'd be very easy to tie it into vibe-world. After all, there's something very Carcosan about a steam-powered computer (clockwork children, steam-powered computers....). If I was looking for Brit-centric Carcosan manifestations (and I always am), I'd probably have glimpses of a dirty, Victorian/Edwardian steampunk reality peeping out of the cracks in modern day London... PC walks into a Soho sex club (as they do);- they see that most of the young ladies therein (all of whom are dressed in modern day attire) are gathered around four boisterous gentleman wearing the Imperial uniform of the 53rd Lancers. No one seems to think they are out of place. One of the Lancers turns to look at the PC as he enters and sneers, menacingly. Everyone else suddenly notices the PC and all begin to laugh. ...Ah well, I have that Death of the Necromancer on order (cheers Chris), so hopefully something productive will have come out of this thread. __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@markelintl.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:57 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Gurkhas, Gurkhas, Gurkhas [some spoilers, but not too many} stabernide@netscape.net [writes: > I understand there's an occupational template for the Royal > Gurkha Rifles in a forthcoming edition of The Black Seal > (correct me if I'm wrong, Adam). The Black Seal #1 will feature a unit template for the Gurkhas, along with several other elite British military units, as well as a selection of civilian agencies. TBS#1 is coming soon. > When most people talk about Gurkhas, they're actually talking > about the Royal Gurkha Rifles - which is just a regiment of > the British Army (you don't even have to be Nepalese to > join), The RGR is an amalgamation of a number (4 or 5 I believe) of regiments that the British Army inherited on Indian independence in 1947. Defence cuts and the loss of Hong Kong, the principle deployment of the Gurkhas has led to the downsizing. > There is (or possibly was) also a Gurkha regiment in the > Indian Army. The Indian Army inherited the Ghurkha regiments that hadn't been posted overseas on independence in 1947, and they still exist. Coincidentally the Indian and British Army have an agreement that they pay recruits the same amount of pay, however the British Army pay a lot more supplements that make the British Army a far more attractive proposition for new recruits. AFC _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:43 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) Here comes the Nuge's Mighty Sombereo, being a'flinged into the ring: I've a very long term, grandeous plan for a End Times setting: in a quasi-Victorian City, sort of an all en-compasing Metropolis, but where all reality has bled together (what has happened is that Yog-Sothoth is 'dead' and that Quagmire of Causality Azathoth is spinning spinning spinning...). So much Like Carcosa, the city remains a city, but you could walk down a street in a Serpent Ghetto and then take a sharp right into YithMason lodge. In it, the City is constant, and all life/existence sort of grows on it like a fungus. The Technology is mainly Steampunk, but there are exceptions - a bunch of Human rebel types who haven't realised they've already lost, styles somewhat on the Glimmer Rats. How does this tie into DG? Well, think about it. 1) Carcosa - you can go there from here; where can you go from there? 2) its a place where reality bleeds together: dimensional portals, strange doors. OR an accident with said devices. 3) End of the World: even if temporary (eg Fixed!) you could have the PCs spend at least an adventure there. 4) End of the World: The above, only with no hope. Yippie! (It all came from watching some Anime when I was about 11, set in a Victoriana city where there was an Island in the Sky controllled by Robots, whose power source was also what allowed the Island to float. There was also some German Military types, and everyone seemed to carry weapons that were a cross between a shotgun and a flintlock pistol. if anyone could tell me the name of that, cause I didn't get to see the end. The lead characters were a typical Anime Urchin boy and a girl who had some connection with the stones) The Nuge Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jerzy Cichocki [deepone@go2.pl] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:20 AM To: Delta Green Subject: [DG] Newspaper Hi Everybody, In Polish newspaper "Super Express" from 11-12 August you can read: "USA President Dwight D. Eisenhower unexpectedly interrupted his rest in Palm Springs. Why? He has to meet... aliens. (1954, Muroc, California). [...] In 1954 Eisenhower signed treaty with aliens. It supposed exchange of ambasadors and that aliens could "get" (kidnap people) for thier technology. They have agreed that they'll build secret bases, where common experiments will be conduct. President J.F. Kennedy declared war on Majestic-12, which has supervised work with aliens. After that JFK was murdered." How many secret bases still working in US? Where are there? George, Warsaw Poland _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:31 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) Greetings. The Nuge's memory is failing and he wrote.... >(It all came from watching some Anime when I was about 11, set in a Victoriana >city where there was an Island in the Sky controllled by Robots, whose power >source was also what allowed the Island to float. There was also some German >Military types, and everyone seemed to carry weapons that were a cross between >a shotgun and a flintlock pistol. if anyone could tell me the name of that, >cause I didn't get to see the end. The lead characters were a typical Anime >Urchin boy and a girl who had some connection with the stones) "Island in the Sky - Laputa" By Hayao Miyazaki (does the bastard ever sleep?). Not half bad. Should be distributed on tape by Disney, Miyazaki having bent the evil Cult of the Rat God to his own purposes (caught the cult red-handed ripping off footage from his works and settled the deal) A lot of other Miyazaki movies have gaslight/steampunk interest - check out "Kiki's Delivery Service" (witchcraft and zeppelins) and "Lupin the Third and the castle of Cagliostro" (autogyros and the Cult of the Black Goat). Hope this helps. Davide Mana Not a Miyazaki fan Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Peter Devlin [peter.devlin@axisanimation.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:34 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Lurker Comments / Criticisms And so it was written: >>> I was there as a lurker for a short time and I've never >seen such a >>> list. If you ask a question that you hadn't spent hours >researching >>> in their archives, you got flamed. If you asked an >opinion of some >>> rule or setting, you were accused of trolling. The >flamers seemed to >>> be an elitist group that thought it cute to pounce on new >members of >>> the list. After about 2 weeks, I had enough. It was funny in the >>> 9th grade locker room, but not in the grown up world. >> >>And more like this. >>Baffling, really. No, the guy is posting his opinion on how he was treated. Fair comment. Over the last few years I've noticed that the DGML can be a hostile place to visit. Us thick-skinned sickos just see humour in this perceived hostility. >Strange-Aeons has nowhere to talk on this though, as flamewars >are a way of >life there too. The difference is, their flamewars are over >the historical >accuracy of Gladiator, which they will go on for a >hundred-post thread, >whereas our flamewars are about the off-topicness of such posts. Gah! Some of us are on both lists despite the amount of shite that both generate. Why crit the SA list without mentioning those of us who spoke up in defence of DG / DGML? It just adds to that elitist argument. Topic? If this is the closed-mind attitude of DGML and SAML, what kind of closed minds will exist within DG itself? Would a dedicated Anti-Mythos group which used spells and summoned critters against the cultists become a target for those conservative DG types? I think so... Cheers. Peter Devlin (peter.devlin@axisanimation.com) "So raise your hand if you think that was a Russian water-tentacle." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:15 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: [KEO] TOME: House of Leaves >> his rantings." Bah. I know it ain't real but when the character in the >>story says it ain't real then what's the bloody point in reading it? > Yeah, and 'American Beauty' is narrated by a dead guy, so what was all that >about, huh? > And 'Rashomon.' What the fuck, can't those people get their story straight? > And what was up with the ending of 'Brazil?' It was all a dream? What a >rip-off! Since we're going with wtf's with the ending of a story, I'd like to point out the ending to Fallen. Oh, yeah. and Fallen's ODbG in and of itself. Anyone ever run a scenario along those lines? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:41 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Peter Devlin Subject: RE: [DG] Lurker Comments / Criticisms >Gah! Some of us are on both lists despite the amount of shite that both >generate. Why crit the SA list without mentioning those of us who spoke up >in defence of DG / DGML? It just adds to that elitist argument. Im with the "boo to SA" arguement. I was up there for a while, mainly lurking. Whenever I did make a comment that wasnt ignored it was treated as if it was a turd in a punchbowl. Couldn't be bothered staying. Technically, the SAML is closer to what I ramble about, but I muchnprefer the DGML - just more fun. - The Nuge Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Lurker Comments / Criticisms On a computer, far, far away, Peter Devlin wrote: > No, the guy is posting his opinion on how he was treated. Fair comment. Over > the last few years I've noticed that the DGML can be a hostile place to > visit. Us thick-skinned sickos just see humour in this perceived hostility. Personally, I found DGML to be quite a friendly place, as long as you don't post in HTML. Then you are Easy Target Boy/Girl (tm). Try and defend your right to post in HTML, then you will be turned into a smoking crater :-) Gun fondling is a law unto itself. Joking aside, DGML is actually quite a nice list to be on. The posting of personal NPC stats is actually a good way of de-lurking (or de- muffining as it was known on one news.froup. No, don't ask.). Now, onto ObDG. I am going to ramble a bit here. It's an unconnected fusion of a couple of ideas. I'm gonna drop it in the sacrificial circle, and see if anybody puts mayonnaise on it. Don't forget the ... mayonnaise. I have a friend, Dave, who runs a large chunk of Demon Internet's servers. Every time one of the machine runs out of disk space, it pages him, and he says he can hear this voice in his head going "Feed me, Seymour!" (younger readers are excused not knowing the reference, but go watch "Little Shop of Horrors ASP"). Now, when I run CoC/DG, it occaisionally turns into "Carry On Cthulhu". What would _you_ put in the cellar that needed feeding? Jon "Daddy, Mr Kippling just summoned Cthulhu!" "I know, but he does make exceedingly good cakes..." -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Peter Devlin [peter.devlin@axisanimation.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:25 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: [DG] Prion Vectors For Ghoul Infection - More Juicy Stuff Another intriguing article on those pesky prions, a conjectured vector for the ghoul transformation: http://www.nature.com/nsu/010823/010823-1.html Cheers. Peter Devlin (peter.devlin@axisanimation.com) "Whatever it is, it's weird and pissed off!" _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/