From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:40 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Peter Devlin Subject: RE: [DG] Lurker Comments / Criticisms >Gah! Some of us are on both lists despite the amount of shite that both >generate. Why crit the SA list without mentioning those of us who spoke up >in defence of DG / DGML? It just adds to that elitist argument. Im with the "boo to SA" arguement. I was up there for a while, mainly lurking. Whenever I did make a comment that wasnt ignored it was treated as if it was a turd in a punchbowl. Couldn't be bothered staying. Technically, the SAML is closer to what I ramble about, but I muchnprefer the DGML - just more fun. - The Nuge Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew James [andrew_jamesdg@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:34 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Dreaded D69 What is the dreaded D69 ? Is this yet another bizarly sided die for my collection to join my D7? Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Peter Devlin [peter.devlin@axisanimation.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:42 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: [DG] More 'Nature' With Mythos Hints I'd be interested in any comments on this one: http://www.nature.com/nsu/010510/010510-12.html Surely we can get Mythos juice from a significant climatic change 3 million years ago, influenced by the movement of the Australian tectonic plate? And change in ocean currents? Leading to evolutionary changes in Mankind... Would that same tectonic plate have been rocked by, or influenced, the Toba volcanic event? Hmmm, moving Australian plates. Elder Thing tectonic agitator? R'lyeh rising / falling? Sinking of Mu? Australia could also imply Yithians or Flying Polyps. Cheers. Peter Devlin (peter.devlin@axisanimation.com) "Whatever it is, it's weird and pissed off!" _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:30 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Andrew James Subject: Re: [DG] Dreaded D69 >What is the dreaded D69 ? > >Is this yet another bizarly sided die for my >collection to join my D7? And of course, my short-lived D1 Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew James [andrew_jamesdg@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] The Black Seal What is this 'The Black Seal' that keeps getting mentioned on the list?, is it a new publication from pagan Publishing? And before anyone says check the archive, I am still working my way through the archive, i am up to V01n266 and still going strong :) Andrew ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:53 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Dreaded D69 On a computer, far, far away, Andrew James wrote: > What is the dreaded D69 ? It's the die you role on the random sexual positions table. Jon -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Stango [jstanley@echoman.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:58 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: [DG] More about lurker comments / criticisms and a Dream I had last night. >Gah! Some of us are on both lists despite the amount of shite that both >generate. I have no experience with SA, but I have been lurking and posting very infrequently(mostly fiction) on this list for a long time in various guises. I have noticed that the tone of the list has become less hostile(maybe too strong of a word), and newbies when they do post are definately treated better than they were before. I like the list and I do read most posts. I loved the CFB2K, even though my own contribution to it may have stank to high heaven. It seems like every few months there is this line of posts that has to do with DGML's atmosphere. I have said my piece, and will resume lurking now.... Oh wait, I had this really weird dream last night: I was in some type of community center that had all types of literature, including various books on Illuminati(I have no earthly idea why). I kept asking the guy if he had any Lovecraft, and would get these weird stares. Finally, after much asking, I was taken to this back room that had a trap door. I could smell the ocean very strong in this room. There was also the strange smell of cordite and incense. There was a shelf with these three musty tomes on it. It hit me all at once then that this was a deep-one hybrid comminuty. I had never recognized until then that the people's eyes were a little too big and shiny, and there was a pervasive smell of fish. I usually dont recognize smells in my dreams(do you ?). Any way, I understood that I was about to be killed, and I woke up. Boy, as soon as I woke up all I wanted to do was go back to sleep and lucid dream my way out of it. That's it. Stango. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@markelintl.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:00 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] The Black Seal Andrew James enquires: > What is this 'The Black Seal' that keeps getting > mentioned on the list?, is it a new publication from > pagan Publishing? The Black Seal is a fan-produced, non-official publication published by Brichester University Press. It focuses on modern day Call of Cthulhu gaming, dealing with Cthulhu Now and Delta Green settings. The first issue is close to being finished and features work by DGML stalwarts Davide Mana, Nick Brownlow, Phil Ward, Graeme Price, Jon Turner, Hans-Christian Vortisch and Adam Crossingham. Check out http://www.theblackseal.org for issue #1 information. The second issue will be a PISCES special, and from the discussion we're having on the Black Seal Writers Forum it looks like it's going to be great issue. The Black Seal is always looking for modern Call of Cthulhu articles and scenarios, if you are interested in submitting material check out our website above. HTH, AFC _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: [KEO] TOME: House of Leaves From: "Greg Muir" > I think this is the only proper path to take in converting this book to a > Mythos experience. I had picked it up on a recommendation and was rather > disappointed. The author seemed to be going for some sort of hook with the > revelation that nothing in the book was real but this for me just ruined the > overall effect. Well, it hasn't ruined it for me, but then I haven't finished it yet. I suppose it might. > I mean, imagine Call of Cthulhu was written through the > additional filtration of a man who discovered the original manuscript and > said "nothing in this is real, there is no cthulhu, nobody in the manuscript > knew about this old professor but now I'm devoting my life to understanding > his rantings." Bah. Greg, anybody who writes "Bah" is OK in my book. But see, this is part of what got me going, really. Yes, the film isn't real (and that's not a spoiler, BTW, folks--it's revealed very early on, even before we learn what the film is about), but it still, through Zampano's bizarre writings, drives Johnny mad (this is also revealed right near the beginning). I can't really talk about what Johnny keeps sensing behind himself because that WOULD be a spoiler, but that combined with other aspects of Johnny's madness tells me that maybe the film IS real...but it's playing in Carcosa, not our world. Imagine a film (or play) that can drive you mad even though it doesn't exist. And then you find the real thing. Perhaps it didn't even exist until people started looking for it. Perhaps _The King in Yellow_ doesn't exist until you go mad trying to find it. Same for the _Necronomicon_. You've got to get completely obsessed with it before it'll appear to you, like a blasphemous Grail. [Hey, maybe the first symptom of that is you start writing your own Necronomicon or KiY. Watch out Thom! ;-)] Anyway, this is what appealed to me. The process of _House of Leaves_ transmuting from 1) experimental novel to 2) actual document about a non-existent film to 3) document about a real film and then maybe to 4) visiting the House is another possibility for the mix if a Keeper is giving her Players the "Road to Hali" treatment [see DG: Countdown, "Hastur Mythos" chapter]. Slowly going from "The movie isn't even real!" to "My God...it's real!"--with the concommitant destruction of everything we know about Reality--is where the horror comes in. For me, it just wouldn't be nearly as scary if the characters just visited a weird house. Though I agree--it's a neat house. [Which also annoys the heck out of me, 'cause I was toying around with the idea of a house with something quite similar about it--not the same, but not all that different--as something DG was investigating in a side-plot of what I'm writing. Oh well. Maybe I'll decide they were different enough and still use it. Assuming I ever finish the novel.] Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:27 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] More 'Nature' With Mythos Hints >I'd be interested in any comments on this one: > >http://www.nature.com/nsu/010510/010510-12.html > >Surely we can get Mythos juice from a significant climatic change 3 million >years ago, influenced by the movement of the Australian tectonic plate? And >change in ocean currents? Leading to evolutionary changes in Mankind... > >Would that same tectonic plate have been rocked by, or influenced, the Toba >volcanic event? > >Hmmm, moving Australian plates. Elder Thing tectonic agitator? R'lyeh rising >/ falling? Sinking of Mu? Australia could also imply Yithians or Flying >Polyps. If I recall, Grandfather tells us about an arctic expedition that uncovers Cthulhuian entities ... anyway, one of the investigators finds some gylphs and thus begins a rather long expository on the history of the Cthulhuian species on Earth, their cities, their slavepets the Shoggoth, and their war with the Yeti. As this paragraph continues, we're venturing further and further out from my certainty of recall, I wish to point out. At any rate, at some point a ceasefire between the Yeti and Cthulhuians is agreed upon, and the Yeti get the surface, the Cthulhuians the water. So... significant climatic change 3 million years ago could be the the equivelent of the atomic event at the end of WW2, with the change in nature, scope, and circumstance, of course. Perhaps a city like that outlined in the story (you'll notice its name missing, surely someone here recalls it) is found... I'd prefer a de-flooded city, personally, so some sort of cavern preserving the city (perhaps as it was in the days of its inhabitance), and a recent teutonic event uncovers a passageway to/from the surface? Or perhaps a Journey to the Center of the Earth-esq expedition, that ends up being a Journey to the Center of the Mythos expedition. Toss in a weird geological 'thing' that's a functional opposite of the thermal vents that seem to litter the ocean floor, that spew cold, so we have a good reason for some frozen Cthulhuian entities. Read story. Nuff said. Oh, and our Mythos-nuked city of course has a nice circle of nothing in the middle. Preferrably a conventional nothing, which may have one's desired Mythos nothing at the middle of -that-. the nuke. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:43 AM To: Delta Green (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Book Recommendation I just want to recommend a couple of good fantasy books with a liberal sprinkling of the Mythos in them : "The Shadow of Ararat" and "The Gate of Fire" by Thomas Harlan. They are part 1 and 2 in a book-series called "Oath of the Empire". The Mythos do not take a central point in the books and none of the Mythos Gods are used outright, but there have been Byakhees, a Dhole, and a couple of hard-to-identify tentacled Things. Oh, and Essential Salts resurrections , or at least a version of them ... The story takes place 623 A.D. in an alternative world. The Roman empires (there's an eastern and a western) face a more and more aggressive Persia. Now add the "common" (i.e. it exists) use of Magic and a Roman Prince who stumbles over something vast and powerful. Sounds like every other fantasy-book? Wait until our heroic Prince starts to vivisect children "for the greater good" ... ;-) ObDG : I can't say too much without spoiling the story but the whole concept around the Oath is interesting and could easily find some uses in a DG-story. /JoB _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jpetheri@cyberbeach.net Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:30 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Book Recommendation On Thursday, August 16, 2001 at 03:42:46 PM, Jonas Bolander (ERA) wrote: > I just want to recommend a couple of good fantasy books with a liberal > sprinkling of the Mythos in them : > > "The Shadow of Ararat" and "The Gate of Fire" by Thomas Harlan. > > They are part 1 and 2 in a book-series called "Oath of the Empire". > I have to second the recommendation. Mythos type spells and creatures, a mad Arab wrestling with unseen forces (umm ... oh wait ... that's Mohammed), and an antagonist who has bowed to a dark power previously kept locked up by the priests of Ahura-Mazda. Although, if I had to put my finger on it, I'd describe the setting more as "Ars Magica" meets CoC, in a variant world. The main reason that I say that is because most magic is practised by scholars or military mages who learn rote spells. Some rare individuals can work powerful spontaneous magics, but the real power comes from necromancy. ----------------------------------------------- Did you know ? Internet Computing has arrived in Sudbury ? http://home.cyberbeach.net/NewsReleases/free_offering.htm Happy Surfing ! http://www.cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! http://www.cyberbeach.net _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:33 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) > ...Ah well, I have that Death of the Necromancer on order (cheers > Chris), so hopefully something productive will have come out of > this thread. I meant to 2nd Chris's recommendation and missed the chance, so at this point I will Along with a couple of others that are occupying me during the break between Summer and Fall quarters... The Psychic Battlefield (HB) by W. Adam Mandelbaum: All about the CIA Remote Viewing project and an overview of the historical basis for ESP in warfare and intelligence work. Mentions Dee, the Bible, various other subjects including Project Jedi also. Interesting and I bought it *really* cheap... The Templars and the Assassin's (PB) by James Wasserman: Provides a short history of the time period, discusses interrelationships between the two groups, discusses what makes of an initiatory society, the modern or near modern descendants of the two groups, and provides a translation of a "sermon of exhortation" for the Knights Templar. Quite interesting reading if for no other reason that than the authors take on cosmology of mystical initiatory societies. The Sign and The Seal (PB) by Graham Hancock: In the same tradition as Holy Blood, Holy Grail. This is and exploration of the truth of the claim of the Ethiopian Christian Church that they posses the Ark of the Covenant. Easy to read but thick, this same subject was recently touched on in a National Geographic article. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:56 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Lurker Comments / Criticisms Shoggoths. Lot's of 'em. And maybe some lime jello mix, just to see what would happen. *gibber* -----Original Message----- From: Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [mailto:wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Lurker Comments / Criticisms Now, when I run CoC/DG, it occaisionally turns into "Carry On Cthulhu". What would _you_ put in the cellar that needed feeding? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew James [andrew_jamesdg@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:07 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re:The Black Seal So OK how can I pre-order my copy of the black seal? Andrew ***Bouncing of the walls as he knows where he is staying for GenCon UK - at the rpga's expense**** ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:40 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Dreaded D69 >>>What is the dreaded D69 ? >>Is this yet another bizarly sided die for my >>collection to join my D7? >And of course, my short-lived D1 That's the marble with one poc mark in it, right? And inevitably, when you roll it, someone is going to scream, "Don't touch it, it is still rolling!!!" because, you know, touching a rolling die invalidates it, and invites the wrath of God (or Cthulhu, whoever is dreaming less at the moment). _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:11 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] envisioning colors out of space We are told that a color out of space is an insubstantial being that manifests as pure color, and that this color matches nothing in the known spctrum. Still an all, its nice to have something close to help envison the color. I have always pictures colors out of space as kind of a dirty, oily lavender. Not the color it really is, but something close to help wrap your head around it. How do other people envision colors out of space? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 2:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Newspaper "> How many secret bases still working in US? Where are there?" The biggest one is supposed to be near Dulce, New Mexico. I hear tell there's suppsoed to be another one in the Californian desert, and another in or near the northern part of Area 51. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] More about lurker comments / criticisms and a Dream I had last night. >I have noticed that the tone of the list has become less hostile(maybe too >strong of a word), and newbies when they do post are definately treated >better than they were before." I have noticed that, too. Last summer, even, the DGML was amuch less pleasant place, with actual arguments and insulkts going back and forth. There's not really any place for that sort of thing, and I think the maturity that the current DGML afficionados display is encouraging. ">I was in some type of community center that had all types of literature, >including various books on Illuminati(I have no earthly idea why). I kept >asking the guy if he had any Lovecraft, and would get these weird stares. >Finally, after much asking, I was taken to this back room that had a trap >door. I could smell the ocean very strong in this room. There was also the >strange smell of cordite and incense. There was a shelf with these three >musty tomes on it. It hit me all at once then that this was a deep-one >hybrid comminuty. I had never recognized until then that the people's eyes >were a little too big and shiny, and there was a pervasive smell of fish. I >usually dont recognize smells in my dreams(do you ?). Any way, I understood >that I was about to be killed, and I woke up. Boy, as soon as I woke up all >I wanted to do was go back to sleep and lucid dream my way out of it." Now my creatibe juices are going again. I wonder if something along the lines of "Being John Malkovich" could be brought from this. An inside Grandpa's brain sort of thing. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 2:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: [DG] Steam and gaslight DG ? (was: Too many test posts) "><reflection of "The Difference Engine", by Sterling and Gibson. Sometimes, >there can, and should be, genres limited to a single work by a single >author, and I think this "steam punk" business qualifies.>> > >Much as I love Gibson, and especially Sterling, I think The Difference Engine is one of their more mediocre efforts...they don't really manage to capture the feel of the Victorian era for me (and some of the dialogue is just downright atrocious)." My point exactly. I read just about anything Bill Gibson chooses to write, but does a mediocre effort - well intentioned but fumbling the ball in the last few yards - truly deserve to spawn an entire genre? If two such masters as Gibson and Sterling can't make it sparkle, how can a lesser work redeem the genre? "Despite the obviously painstaking research (which makes it a nice 'sourcebook' for Steampunk generally), " The Difference Engine IS steampunk. Its not so much a 'sourcebook' as the source itself. To me, its like saying that the Star Trek TV series is a nice source book for a Star Trek role playing game: "We're gonna play this game called Star Trek, and I've found lots of interesting ways to play it in this TV show Star Trek." ">One thing that strikes me about steampunk-ish stuff is that it'd be very easy to tie it into vibe-world. After all, there's something very Carcosan about a steam-powered computer (clockwork children, steam-powered computers....)." I'm not sure. Gibson and Sterling set up the world of the Difference Engine as a divergence from history, sort of a left turn in 1850. The Hastur mythos is sort of an entrenchment of what did happen, sort of a Victorian-Edwardian milieu that won't go away. I think a technology that developed in connection with Carcosa et al. would not be the steam driven technology of the Difference Engine, but some sort of reality driver, a la "the Matrix" or "Dark City" (which are essentially the same movie, anyway). Why build a cogwork robot in Carcosa to do work, when you can simply re-engineer reality such that the work is already done? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:31 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space ----- Original Message ----- From: "Khorne" > I have always pictures colors out of space as kind of a dirty, oily > lavender. Not the color it really is, but something close to help wrap your > head around it. > > How do other people envision colors out of space? I pictured a sort of vaporous 3-dimensional blank. I figure the brain won't settle for nothing and will tend to insert white or gray to fill in that visual vacuum. If the color of the colour is one that is not in the visual spectrum, the brain will add false color to supply something for the mind to wrap around it. Not weird enough? How about the geometric patterns and sparks (and fractals) you see when you press on your closed eyes? Add those flashing and rippling throughout the blank area. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Isaac Betty [ijbetty@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:46 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Sharks, sharks, sharks This was just brought up on rpg.net... http://www.rpg.net/pf/read.php?f=5&i=109644&t=109644 ...and might prove of interest. Apparently, hundreds of sharks of several different varieties have begun to swarm directly off one of the Florida keys. The local sheriff's office says that it's probably just because warm water discharged from a local power plant is attracting fish, but we certainly know better, don't we. As anyone who watches far too much television knows, that is going to be a convenient lie to avoid frightening the tourists, despite the warnings of a handsome, if unorthodox, scientist. http://orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-lotsofsharks081401.story _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nerva Vels [nerva.ramos@verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:59 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space When I read that story, I envisioned/visualized something that my eyes couldn't pin into a color ('colour' made it even wierder). So my senses tries to go through all the colors of the spectrum, unable to pin down the color that the Colour Out of Space was, which of course would induce some nausea and vertigo, and a great sense of revulsion, as the colours would be repulsive even as your brain tried to make sense of it. It's very movement would also cause a reaction of extreme disgust and fear, as it would not move as one would be used to something earthbound moving, and the 'color' would be part of that 'movement'. Which brings me to something I know we've touched on before in other ways; how the new technology of visual art impacts on the human reaction of mythos presence as first viewed. But I think that ties into the King in Yellow and the whole 'preparing the human race for eventual return to servitude to the GOOs' theme... nana nervy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space >How do other people envision colors out of space? I always described it as a weird, pulsing shade that seemed poised on the tip between being off-white and white-purple, but never quite making up its mind which way to shudder down the color wheel. Weird cross-reference: I remember ERB positing the existance of a color unknown to man on Mars in his John Carter novels... hmmm... J. Edward _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Capps [jon@monster-net.com] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] envisioning colors out of space [KEO EOV2 SPOILER] Nervy wrote: > When I read that story, I envisioned/visualized something that my eyes > couldn't pin into a color ('colour' made it even wierder). So my senses > tries to go through all the colors of the spectrum, unable to pin down the > color that the Colour Out of Space was, which of course would induce some > nausea and vertigo, and a great sense of revulsion, as the > colours would be > repulsive even as your brain tried to make sense of it. It's > very movement > would also cause a reaction of extreme disgust and fear, as it would not > move as one would be used to something earthbound moving, and the 'color' > would be part of that 'movement'. This reminds me of a phenomenon we've seen before.... Ok. I quote from EOV2, p. 10: "When activated, the radio-sized machine caused a fantastic display of unearthly colors to radiate in the very air around the room. Michaelson was flabbergasted by the size of the field effect." And on p. 17: " ... some personnel [within the field], however, did complain of headaches and other minor problems due to their exposure to the electromagnetics" What if Colors out of Space either naturally emit low levels of, or somehow convert background EM radiation into, T-radiation? Then humans would see them with the same parts of the brain that the resonator stimulates. Hmm. I wonder what an agent would see if he encountered a Color within a T-resonator field? Jon Capps _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:51 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space Reading the story, I thought the idea was to go with something that had no reference, no context, so that conceptually speaking, you should not be able to envision the colour out of space unless you were one of the four (IIRC) investigators there. I'm not speaking in a DG/Keeper sense, I mean, at all.... the idea is that it is so alien that the only way to know it is to experience it. Sort of like the opposite of the chicken phenomena -- everything tastes like chicken. You see, grandfather's era of writing hung between two mentalities.. the world as a mist ('There be dragones here') and the world as a series of principae. Horror movies these days tends to placea circumstance with an event, entity, or series that operates using the first's rules in the second's world (and 'happier' resolutions end up being something of deducing the rules to the first). In our (blah) scientific view, we have 3 primary colours, 3 secondary colours which are blends, and blah blah blah, go to art or physics classes. In Lovecraft's time, we have red, blue, green, orange, purple, (et cet), but why the hell not something alien too? No bands of frequency sort of determining that, hup, we're out of colours. Of course, the whole perception of colour has to do with ... forgive me.. cones or rods.. I think it's cones.... so perhaps a mutation, and there's poof, more colours. But anyway... Whipping out an even broader paintbrush, I'd like to touch upon religion. My understanding was that Puritans saw the world as one big festing jungle of evil, and they were a little candle of righteousness. The devil was everywhere, ready to swoop in and squash the candle, so they had to be ever vigilent, pious, et cet. This sort of thoughtset helps the only novel I've read regarding them, The Scarlet Letter, make more sense, and fits with both their geographical location and their political situation. So compare this dot on the page sort of theology to how I perceive the larger whole of Christianity, which is God is the end all be all, and the Devil is the dot on the page. The difference would sort of go along the same lines as the science... Puritians being old science ("We know so little, and there is so much out there."/"The believers are so few, and there are so many sinners out there.") and Christianity as a whole being new science (insert logical opposites). How this fits in nicer is where the Puritans settled, and where grandfather's stories take place. Considering they're usually small towns that have stayed the same essentially since founding (Deep Ones and other Mythos involvement notwithstanding...) So that's a nice arching short essay. Top and bottom connect to the point, middle wanders off a little bit. Now I'm going to go wander again. You'll pardon my not having read more fiction so that I can be more specific, but I recall works from between the 20's to the... 50's?, and it was always atomics. Atomic radiation this, atomic radiation that. The Green Hulk is created by gamma radiation. How? Who knows. Who cares. It is your Plot Device that goes without more than the dropping of its name. 90's Samuel Beckett of Quantum Leap time travels, temporarily imposing his consciousness on individuals through his lifespan... why? how? a quantum accelerator. Period. Earth develops weapons that create and project fields where the laws of physics break down, using mercury and atomics -- the Ultimate Weapon. the list goes on. These are all references to things that simply don't make sense (whether from an intentional POV, a la Quantum Leap, or from creative prediction, which Arthur C Clarke still creeps me out about) but show up as the 'scientific' explanation for some otherwise absurd event to maintain suspension of disbelief. Chalk up the colour out of space as such a thing. Or pretend it's a bright flourscent (sp) shimmering green. Out of spacey enough for me. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:14 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space "> I pictured a sort of vaporous 3-dimensional blank. I figure the brain won't >settle for nothing and will tend to insert white or gray to fill in that >visual vacuum. If the color of the colour is one that is not in the visual >spectrum, the brain will add false color to supply something for the mind to >wrap around it." So then its one of those "each man has their own truth" things, then? "> Not weird enough? How about the geometric patterns and sparks (and >fractals) you see when you press on your closed eyes? Add those flashing and >rippling throughout the blank area." Actuallty, if that's how to envision a color out of space, I'm seeing them all the time. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:48 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space Uhm, thanks. Wow. I feel very small now. In my heart, I know that the color isn;t a color we'd recognize. It cannot be conceived of by the human mind, except as a sort of sensation (of fetid air, I believe), but it helps to have a visualization aid, some sort of methaphor or...pardon the expression...false color image to use as a short hand. ">Reading the story... lots of deep stuff snipped out ...suspension of disbelief. Chalk up the colour out of space >as such a thing." ">Or pretend it's a bright flourscent (sp) shimmering green. Out of spacey >enough for me." Fair enough. I'ver always preferred thr sickly, oily lavender because I grew up on Hulk comics, so green isn't spooky to me any more. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:53 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space [KEO EOV2 SPOILER] ">What if Colors out of Space either naturally emit low levels of, or somehow >convert background EM radiation into, T-radiation? Then humans would see >them with the same parts of the brain that the resonator stimulates." Actually, that's the take I've taken, Jon. I've written some fiction concerning a time travel device, and for the color, I've used the same description as the color out of space. The color out of space is the color of time. Maybe the color is a color for something that has no color. Maybe its the visual image our minds make when confronted with something that cannot be processed into a visual image as we normally conceive of such things. Or maybe I'm full of shit. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 2:56 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space ">I always described it as a weird, pulsing shade that seemed poised on the >tip between being off-white and white-purple, but never quite making up its >mind which way to shudder down the color wheel." Very interesting. The lavender I've always envisioned seems to fit in here, so maybe we all conceive of colors from space the same way. Perhaps I should go on and on about the collective subconscious, or the propigation of conceptual memes through the human species as a sort of idea-virus. How a story - meaning specific word combinations - can "up load" an infectious concept into the popular consciousness. Or perhaps not. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:59 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; The Lizard King Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space > I pictured a sort of vaporous 3-dimensional blank. I figure the brain won't >settle for nothing and will tend to insert white or gray to fill in that >visual vacuum. If the color of the colour is one that is not in the visual >spectrum, the brain will add false color to supply something for the mind to >wrap around it. OR: how about that you cant see it, rather you see the abscence of space - you see a blob where the reality around has been stretched to cover the space where the COOS is. So where theres a sense of "widescreen stretch" in real life, thats where the baestie is. Its not that it actually ripples space, rather its the human brain smudging perception to allow acknowledgement of the endity. Werent there a lot of big words there children? Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 5:07 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space >Uhm, thanks. Wow. I feel very small now. Why's that? >In my heart, I know that the color isn;t a color we'd recognize. It cannot >be conceived of by the human mind, except as a sort of sensation (of fetid >air, I believe), but it helps to have a visualization aid, some sort of >methaphor or...pardon the expression...false color image to use as a short >hand. No, the fetid air would be the occurances in the text, not the colour itself. You're combining circumstance into experience to flesh out something contextless. My point is that once you cut that away, you're left with nothing. A more profound version of the what is red to a blind man ponderance. As for "concieved", I think you're cheating with that. The mind can grasp it -- the investigators most assuredly do (although its circumstances provide good reason for negative associations with it-- omitted for ramblingness-- ) -- but you and I are unable to. We can -- we possess the ability -- but we cannot -- we lack the necessary circumstance to perform the ability. As for visualization aide, you can always do a metaphor. Colour is to as Person is to Al Gore. >">Or pretend it's a bright flourscent (sp) shimmering green. Out of spacey >>enough for me." >Fair enough. I'ver always preferred thr sickly, oily lavender because I >grew up on Hulk comics, so green isn't spooky to me any more. Gotta go with 1920's, big guy. Neon green is about as alien as you can get. Personal preference takes a back seat if we can establish plausible 'evidence' over one. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 5:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Khorne Subject: [DG] Wot monsers look like (was: envisioning colors out of space) >Fair enough. I'ver always preferred thr sickly, oily lavender because I >grew up on Hulk comics, so green isn't spooky to me any more. I am reminded of Galactus - Marvels Meta-Old One (when you predate the universe, sorry, the Big C is a peanut in this guys shit). Anyway: when he first appeared in Fantastic Four, he had a big G on his chest (subtly slagged off in Marvels - very good if you want to use any Superhuman stuff for CoC, or even for when Godlike comes out). However, zoom onto 70s Silver Surfer, and in classic Kirby style, it muses that Galactus is so much a force of Nature (albeit on a Cosmological scale), he appears to whoever sees him somewhat in their image (theres a great image of 50 versions of Galactus, varying from the humanoid to the pure Alien). Now, since our limited Mammalean Cortexs can only handle a piddling degree of the universe, it begs the question how much of the Mythos is "alien" not because it is, but merely because we can only percieve it as such. So, Cthulhu is alien until we understand him, then he is just natural, and "fixed" in form (rather than ever-transforming before our very eyes). Of course, once we understand, we've long past 0 san. How much of the Mythos itself is a great big smudge? - The Nuge Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 5:14 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; talaphid Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space >>">Or pretend it's a bright flourscent (sp) shimmering green. Out of spacey >>>enough for me." >>Fair enough. I'ver always preferred thr sickly, oily lavender because I >>grew up on Hulk comics, so green isn't spooky to me any more. >Gotta go with 1920's, big guy. Neon green is about as alien as you can get. >Personal preference takes a back seat if we can establish plausible >'evidence' over one. This is pointless, yes, but until the 18th Century, Green wasnt the colour of Ireland, Blue was. The Crown "changed" it cause they wanted dibs on White, Red and Blue (indicated by their Footy shirts) Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/