From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Philip_Ward@yestelevision.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Armor? Gil wrote: > Some really good rules of thumb for heavy armour In the interests of not doing too much gunfondling (is there such a thing ;)) Try here: http://www.recguns.com/XJ3.html For a quick run-down on the relative protective values of ballistic vests, and : http://www.safariland.com/index.html http://www.firstdefense.com/ http://www.safetyl.com/slstore/bodyarm/default.html and here for some related links in personal protection: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/technology/fielded_programs/officer_protection.htm Now just remember, not much of this stuff is going to a) Protect you from mythos critters with tentacles b) Stop a heavy rifle shot. BCNU, Phil PS. Please, please, please, leave it at game/rules conversations. ********************************************************************** This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or privileged information and should not be read, copied or otherwise used or disseminated by any unauthorised person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Yes Television (Europe) Ltd . If you are not the named recipient, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail from your system. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:53 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] (OT plug - Adventure!) Cheers. I know this is off-topic, so I'll make this short. >Today, August 20th, 2001, sees the release of an RPG that will, one hopes, >be a smashing success. It's name is Adventure! and it's a game about pulp >heroes. Indeed, it's a much anticipated release hereabouts. For the uninitiated, the Albino Fleabag (aka White Wolf) is publishing it as third installment in the long-suffering "Aeon" series - a non-WoD line that includes a space-opera game (Trinity) and a straight Superhero game (Aberrant). In keeping with the policy adopted with other Aeon products, WW is granting almost no support for the game - no sourcebooks, no scenarios, no nothing - for the time being. Grab a copy of the main rulesbook while you can and pray is the bottom line. >If you liked that era of writing (and hey, I think we're all Lovecraft >fans here... even if he wasn't that kind of pulp) then this is the game >for you. Hopefully so. Ah, back again to the jazz age! I've half a mind of replaying Masks of Nyarlathotep as Robert Howard would have written it. Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:41 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane? Greetings. Looks like summer's over - Michael Layne's back and we've got a new, meaty topic Gil wrote >This brought up the general question of how Alphonse could know all that >he must know about the Mythos based on being the center of DG intel and >not go balls-to-the-wall bonkers in record time. Which is indeed a nice question. Well, maybe not exactly "nice", but.... >My first impression is that Al simply categorizes the intel and passes it >on those cells who are best qualified to handle it. [snip] > He just passes it on to those who have encountered similar phenomena > based on certain "keywords". At best he may know that there are aquatic > humanoids known to some as "Deep Ones", but he has no idea that they are > part of a vast civilization awaiting the resurfacing of their god that > will lay waste to the Earth. This might work, but might contradict some of the canonical activities of Joe Camp as shown in various DG material. Alphonse carries such an authority that you automatically assume he's got some deep knowledge of the matters at hand. Unless he's bluffing, of course. A possible alternative that might work is - there's more than one Alphonse. In other words, there's a number of coordinators, each of which does not have the full picture. Assuming that missing the whole picture is enough to save your sanity. Incidentally, I'd say the character of Andrea as imagined on this list - that is, the "cleaner" for ops gone bad - fits this profile rather nicely. Andrea just knows that the clean-up jobs are paramount, and that's a matter of extreme importance. Stuff about fishmen and greys and what are of no import. And we still do not know how many Andreas are there. >The other idea brought up is that Al does know a lot about all this, but >that he's just one lucky mofo whose constantly made his SAN roll. This >doesn't mean that Al is the sanest among us though, just that he doesn't >have to sweat the 1D6 SAN effects now. For Al, SAN penalties are more >like 10D6. Al has not gone insane, but when he does, he is going to be >quite "enlightened". I seem to remember some players adapted chunks of "Unknown Armies" for DG games. In UA there's rules to describe the fact that you can actually get used to the uncanny, developing sort of a sanity-preserving mechanism. Alphonse might be just hardened by years of dealing with the Mythos. >Finally, I'm wondering now if Al is going insane, but that it's a recent >process. Until Reggie died, who knows what Al's role was in DG. He >probably saw some nasty shit in WWII, but since then, he could have simply >been in administration. His taking on the role of DG leader and central >hub of That Which Man Is Not Meant To Know has only been going on for a >few years now, and that simply hasn't been enough time for his sanity to >degrade to the point where anyone would notice. > >That is, if anyone will notice when it does... This is the one I like best. Let's face it - from his last post (which is all we have to evaluate the guy) Uncle Reggie was not exactly Sane. We must remember here that Low sanity does not automatically mean "Foaming at the Mouth Mad". Alphonse (whose character stats I do not have handy, sorry) might be driven over the edge slowly, by degrees and in a way that would allow him to still do his job perfectly (for a while at least). And the way DG is structured now might allow him to keep his position for quite a while with no-one noticing. The final cracking, of course, could be devastating. Now that would make for an excellent campaign - if a bit PISCES-y - for veteran gamers (not necessarily veteran characters): DG cells start being wiped out, ops go terribly wrong, and a bunch of survivors has to climb the DG structure backwards to nail an insane coordinator whose less than balanced choices and directives are endangering the structure itself. But - and here's another idea worth considering - maybe Andrea's role is just that of keeping an eye on Joe Camp and a finger on the trigger. If he starts acting weird, Andrea will retire him. All this, of course, just as my two cents for the day. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jerzy Cichocki [deepone@go2.pl] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:59 AM To: Delta Green Subject: [DG] Dictionary Hi Everybody, Anybody knows if on the web is English-Arabic dictionary? Thanks! George, Warsaw Poland _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jim Clunie [jim_clunie@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Dictionary This looks like a free download (haven't tried it): http://www.muhaddith.org/index.html Snuck onto the list after it moved to this server (so I'm told), first time poster. Cheers Jim C >From: Jerzy Cichocki > >Hi Everybody, > > Anybody knows if on the web is English-Arabic dictionary? > >Thanks! >George, Warsaw Poland > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@markelintl.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 6:38 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Re:The Black Seal ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* > speaking of the black seal... are you guys having server > problems? I've been > trying to get past the front page, and the graphic won't load up... I'm getting connection timed out messages now. I'm using a web redirection to a Demon.co.uk homepage. Demon says homepages are OK but I can't connect using the blackseal address or the Demon address. I'll look into this further and get back to the list. AFC _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:40 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] (DG) Back on the DGML ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > County, PA. Final total for our army was some 12,337 brave souls (the > biggest Pennsic War thus far), counting women and children, but not hand > puppets and stuffed animals. The combat arms (though not support personnel, > such as myself, of course) wore excellent body armor, and all of our weapons > were Y2K compliant! (In fact, they were all Y_1_K compliant...):) Hello, Herald. The Glove Cleaner is back too. Je-sus. 12,377. What a High Crusade that would have been. And the alien meteor shower invasion. Good thing there weren't too many Colors there, eh? --- *** --- SCA fiction (you know what I mean, Herald: stuff like THE FOLK OF THE AIR http://www.greenmanreview.com/folkoftheair.html , don't pretend you don't know all about it ) often involves the SCA types being pitchforked into fantasy worlds and having a good time. The appropriate Cthukhu Mythos treatment is, I suppose, SCA types being pitchforked into worlds of Lovecraftian horror and having a lousy time. Any thoughts along those lines? I could imagine it being done: the whole half-sincere business could be sucked into the Dreamworlds. Slowly. Perhaps the warriors find they are using harder and harder weapons, getting hurt but unable to stop. The Wicca types find the real Old Gods are turning up and insisting on being taken seriously. The games start to involve blood. The RW support infrastructure stays there, but no-one goes out or in. You can check in any time you like, but you can never leave. Suppose you were at a revel and couldn't leave, ever? How long would it be fun? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jerzy Cichocki [deepone@go2.pl] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 6:42 AM To: Delta Green Subject: [DG] Dictionary Hi Everybody, Anybody knows if on the web is English-Arabic dictionary? Thanks! George, Warsaw Poland _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@markelintl.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:45 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: RE: [DG] Re:The Black Seal > There seemed to be a problem with Demon homepages earlier > today, but they seem to be fine now. Yep, the site's working now. If you can't get past the front page then try: http:www.the-wolery.demon.co.uk/TBS/HOME.HTM HTH AFC The Black Seal - coming soon http://www.theblackseal.org _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 6:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Khorne Subject: Re: [DG] envisioning colors out of space >The story "The Color Out of Space" is rather specific that the Color is a >visible something, not a heat ripple on reality. I try not to jump too far >from the published description. Visable SOMETHING. Considering its specifically something outside the normal perception of us wee-brained mammalians, then I say go hog-wild Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:03 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Jon Capps Subject: RE: [DG] Comic book reality and DG > >If this guy existed, I don't see Alzis liking him at all. He'd be stepping >all over Alzis's toes. So, of course, the PC's owe him a favor, and he >sets them against this guy, possibly taking the role of the eccentric >millionaire backer, supplying equipment/funds, grooming them into the RW >superhero type. Unless its Dr. Viktor Von Doom, not so much an ArchVillain as the Uber-MetaVillain, Richard III in Battle armour, with dalliances in the realms of Science and Magic. This is a guy who BEAT the Beyonder (Yog-Sothoth relationship is all up to your conclusions) by draining the energy from Galactus eating his home (a double-helix about 50 times the size of Earth). Added to the fact that Doom would not be a worshiper - for Doom brooks no master - but a player (in fact, Im seeing some definite similarities between Doom and Alzis - neither followers, but leaders): if you counted Mephisto (who has Doom's mothers soul, btw) as more of a GOO rather than Ye Embodiment of Evil (Mephisto pretends to be the latter, but is closer to the former, albeit with Nyarlathoteps sensibilities), which Dormamuu is closer to (old barby head). So, in conclusion, perhaps thats what created Alzis - unspeakable drive. Naive, mayhaps, but to me Secret Wars is still the best comic of all time, so phnut. The Nuge Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Greg Muir Subject: RE: [DG] Re: [KEO] TOME: House of Leaves >If you want an example of highly trippy stuff, Last night I finally listened the whole way through, uninterupted, and undisturbed, the entire Metal Machine Music Album by Lou Reed. If you want non-chemical trip, try that. Electronica, which I have a mild taste for, feels like it is a copy of this, albeit one that seems to have missed the key point of 3M. Gave me an Idea for a campaign involving Lou Reed -> Velvet Underground -> Belial etc. Cause what if 3M is like the Reqiem Par Shaggai, or the number string from Delta-Green, or the audio KIY? Odds are Lou Reed and John Cale could have seen some wierd shit during their time. Just a thought. Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:17 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Davide Mana Subject: Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane? >>The other idea brought up is that Al does know a lot about all this, but >>that he's just one lucky mofo whose constantly made his SAN roll. This >>doesn't mean that Al is the sanest among us though, just that he doesn't >>have to sweat the 1D6 SAN effects now. For Al, SAN penalties are more >>like 10D6. Al has not gone insane, but when he does, he is going to be >>quite "enlightened". I put it down to all the drinking he does - Just finished the Rules of Engagement, and godammit! I think theres ONE scene where he doesnt imbibe beer or bourbon. Of course, that bodes rather well for me, I think... Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 8:39 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] >This brought up the general question of how Alphonse could know all that >he must know about the Mythos based on being the center of DG intel and >not go balls-to-the-wall bonkers in record time. I do not think that you take the same sanity penalty for reading a DG sit rep as you would being on site. Mythos tomes are written in a manner to promote sanity loss and are directly "inspired" by the mythos entities. I would think that a reader of a non-myhos-entity inspired report would be 1/20 or less of the listed cost of a personal meeting. In addition, I think this was noted in a prior thread, sanity loss is less costly when you see the same thing day after day. The 80th time you read a report about a deep one would be less damaging than the first. I am sure Alphonse did his time in the field and is now in the 30-50 range of san but now he is playing an executive role. The other possibility is that "Alphonse" is a name attributed to several people over the last few years. The first three "A" cell members of that name may be retired or gibbering away in an asylum....or now lead a local cult to Mon Signor Sock. Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:57 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] (SPOILERS) Human Psychic Ability and Mi-Go Back in the day, the Man in Black used to post intriguing elements from his campaign involving psychic ability among mankind. One aspect of this material was that sometime in the past, the Mi-Go stunted the psychic growth of humans, which had been... (SPOILERS FOR PROJECT RAINBOW) S P O I L E R S P A C E ... re-developed in a small group of humans during the sixteenth century through K'n-Yani experimentation. It is from this small group that Carl Allen is descended, and his psychic ability is triggered by his involvement in Project: RAINBOW. My question is: is the Mi-Go stunting of human psychic ability part of previous source material or is that an invention of the MiB's fevered imagination? Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:01 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane? > The other idea brought up is that Al does know a lot about all this, but > that he's just one lucky mofo whose constantly made his SAN roll. This > doesn't mean that Al is the sanest among us though, just that he doesn't > have to sweat the 1D6 SAN effects now. For Al, SAN penalties are > more like > 10D6. Al has not gone insane, but when he does, he is going to be quite > "enlightened". This all brings to mind an old 20's campaign with a Dreamland component. An NPC that was tagging along with group managed to go see the big A. Ok, scratch one NPC... Except that I rolled San loss for the heck of it, Not only did he make the San roll, he then only lost 1 point. After a quick set of head scratching, I decided that he did in fact end up going insane (all of the other lesser GOO's/OG's/Whatever dancing around A.) But he ended up becoming a very, very heavy worshipper of Nodens and over a time a sorcerer par excellence... He still shows up in my DG campaign as "semi-Friendly", and his children scare the heck out of the players. I sort of picture Alphonse as being somewhat in the same situation, he knows way, way too much, but he may very well have always made the San rolls and has been slowly losing 1pt. by 1pt. He's probably insane now, but the nature of his insanity is such that no-one knows. I also happen to like Davide's idea about Andrea having part of job being to watch over Al. David _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:27 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Armor? >>Level II: This is the most common armor worn by >>police officers, and is still concealable. The 1990s Handbook doesn't >>say so, but I would say that IIA and II armor has gotten concealable >>enough that it would take a Spot Hidden to notice a tailored vest on >>any but a very small individual. I would have to agree here. I used to work as a field engineer for a company that sold computer equipment to schools. I was frequently in South Central and East Los Angeles, and Watts. Three of the most dangerous places in California to be with several thousand dollars worth of easily-fenced computers. After the Rodney King incident, I went out and started looking at vests. I got a very common and untailored vest - the same worn by cops all over the place. I wore that thing to about thirty different customer sites and it was only noticed once - and that was by a coworker who saw me trying to squat under a desk to hide some wires when I had to adjust the steel plate on my chest to let me bend properly. He was totally stunned that I was wearing it, and had been the last several times he'd seen me. As far as what it was concealed under, it was a dress shirt, tie, and suit jacket. Taking off the suit jacket would have made it a little more visible, but not much. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:16 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] >The other possibility is that "Alphonse" is a name attributed to several >people over the last few years. The first three "A" cell members of that >name may be retired or gibbering away in an asylum... "After all, NOBODY would surrender to the Dread Pirate Wesley." (Sorry - couldn't resist.) >Al doesn't really consume the data himself or even look at it too >closely. He just passes it on to those who have encountered similar >phenomena based on certain "keywords". This brings to mind another idea. What if both of these things are true (or were true at some time in the past)? The first several Alphonse's went wacko and people moved up the chain and into his spot. One day a new Alphonse came along and said, "Hmmm, ya know, all my predecessors blew their brains out. I wonder if that's just a coincidence. Prolly not." So he started a secret program to find a solution to this problem. And in "keywords" he found his solution. Before long, field reports and sightings and other material were being handled by a computerized dispatching program running on a highly advanced (possibly purloined from aliens) AI platform. In running constant checks to be sure the computer was doing the job properly, he eventually lost his own sanity and blew his brains out like all his predecessors. Except nobody noticed because he was still doing his job just fine. And has been for years even though his body was discovered a decade ago. Okay, many of you probably hate that idea because it's admittedly stupid as I realized right about the time I finished writing it. But it gave genesis to another, much better, idea. And here it is: What causes insanity? Mostly emotion, right? Without emotion, you don't really care when you discover that the universe is not as you thought it was and that everything is pointless. This list had a great discussion some weeks back regarding mind-to-computer uploading vs. brain casing. What if Alphonse had his brain uploaded to a computer in order to lose his ability to become insane? His now logic-intense mind can make good decisions without the worry of caring about those pesky humans being eaten by fish people. Just a few thoughts, Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:51 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] Now this has possibilities... Say there is a psychoactive compound which acts as a 'emotional suppressant'. Something that blunts emotional responses (e.g. san loss) without turning the user into a full blown sociopath. Or would such a balance even be possible? After all, if you don't feel guilt, shame, or remorse, perhaps the idea of trying out the recipes in 'Cooking with Galt' doesn't seem like a bad idea. But then, this may be getting into the idea of 'what is sanity'. -----Original Message----- From: Gatten, Marshall [mailto:marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:16 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] What causes insanity? Mostly emotion, right? Without emotion, you don't really care when you discover that the universe is not as you thought it was and that everything is pointless. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Wayne Zeller [wzeller@lookingforme.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:56 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] >>Something that blunts emotional responses (e.g. san loss) >>without turning the user into a full blown sociopath. >>Or would such a balance even be possible? After all, if >>you don't feel guilt, shame, or remorse, perhaps the idea >>of trying out the recipes in 'Cooking with Galt' doesn't >>seem like a bad idea. (And now for a quick swim in the mind of one who's been there and come back...) I would have to say that a balance like this is definitely possible. In fact, without revealing too much personal detail, I'll simply say that for a several-year period after some very intense emotional scarring, my emotions were (as I put it at the time) "burned out of me". I was still a totally nice guy, and never would have dreamed of hurting anybody or anything intentionally, but I knew I could if I wanted to. I felt no emotions at all. I wasn't sad, nor was I happy. I had a few "serious" relationships in which I didn't really feel much for the woman, and breaking up was always easy and simple for me. I could have shot a family member in the head and not given a damn, but I never wanted to so I never did. It's very likely that I could have looked upon crawling chaos or the Big C himself and shrugged and walked away from it (assuming I didn't get eaten). This wasn't a bad time in my life, it just wasn't a good time either. It simply didn't matter. The thing that made me different from a sociopath who experiments on people simple to see what happens was that I still knew right from wrong and had no real desire to do anything wrong. So, I can tell you from personal experience, the ability to tell right from wrong and the ability to feel emotions are definitely distinctly separate. Anyway, I recovered completely without the aid of medication or counseling and now lead a very happy life. Time heals all, I guess. The point is that some substance that blunts emotional responses to avoid san loss could be a very useful thing, but you'd have to be very careful to only give it to people who fit a psychological profile that says they won't use their sociopathic state to do "evil" things. I think that's enough soul-baring for one day. :) Wayne _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:45 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] (SPOILERS) Human Psychic Ability and Mi-Go <> It's made mention of in The Resection of Time, and possibly from the Blood Moon scenario in the Strange Aeons sourcebook. It seems to be the favoured explanation for the difference between baseline humanity and the Kn'yani, as well as the reason for the BOYS antipathy towards the Mi-Go. As Sam Johnson noted in his write up for the DG website, it also dovetails nicely with the whole Nordic/Grey/Reptoid rivalry in UFO mythology. __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] At 09:16 AM 8/20/2001 -0700, Gatten, Marshall wrote: >What causes insanity? Mostly emotion, right? Without emotion, you don't >really care when you discover that the universe is not as you thought it >was and that everything is pointless. I would argue that a lack of emotions would result in a sociopath. Or rather I won't, as it's more of a personal belief than accepted definition. I respect others who feel otherwise, but my stance is that if you can look at children playing in playground with the knowledge that they will all be food for the gods possibly before some of them reach puberty and probably before they can bear their own children and definitely before they can lead a full and meaningful life, and not feel emotional despair, then there's something wrong. More to the point though, sanity loss in Lovecraft's tales is not based on emotional but intellectual response. The protagonist doesn't go insane out of emotional reasons like they lack closure or something - they do so because of the intellectual impact of what knowledge of the Mythos means. However, DG is as much rooted in the emotional (that's where the James Ellroy element comes in) as the intellectual, so it's not a hard-&-fast rule. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:46 PM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] How to haunt a boat I just stumbled across this and it just begs to be used in a DG context. http://www.newscientist.com/lastword/answers/609sound.jsp?tp=sound1 I imagine intentionally designing a mast that resonates these signals so that the boat has a scientific explanation for the fact that voices are heard on it all the time. Now you have a place to put "trapped souls" of what kind you like, and nobody will ever notice them because they are camouflaged by the perfectly explainable voices. Bwah hah hah hah ha! From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:51 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Gone Insane? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Zeller" > > The point is that some substance that blunts emotional responses to avoid > san loss could be a very useful thing, but you'd have to be very careful to > only give it to people who fit a psychological profile that says they won't > use their sociopathic state to do "evil" things. > > I think that's enough soul-baring for one day. :) No more? No, no. More, more. I could compare scabs - but my own dalliance with mental breakdown was long ago. I do remember, overwhelmingly, the perception that my Self was a *mechanism* - and a mechanism which included elements to hide its mechanical nature from its governing consciousness, and make itself seem human. This is something that also comes out strongly in, for example, the writings of Phil Dick. I am sure that the mechanism can be usefully changed from its baseline condition. (Consider, for instance, the probable fact that Pychopathy is an extreme of a facultatively useful condition, rather like autism). As the Endtimes approach I would expect the deliberate manipulation of insanity to become a frequent military and industrial technique. Maybe Alphonse has got hold of these techniques and is using them, in desperation, or under compulsion. Or maybe he's just damn tough. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Machiavelli132@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:03 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane?] I think we can consider "having no emotions" as a form of insanity... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane? At 10:41 AM 8/20/2001 +0200, Davide Mana wrote: >This might work, but might contradict some of the canonical activities of >Joe Camp as shown in various DG material. Alphonse carries such an >authority that you automatically assume he's got some deep knowledge of >the matters at hand. Unless he's bluffing, of course. Yeah, I agree, it is pretty weak. Though I'm not happy with the multiple Alphonse theory either. I like the Alphonse that is personally involved in some manner, no matter how far removed, with each of the cell members, as seen in RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. And the Alphonse the Lush theory is okay, but personally I see alcoholism, drug abuse, sexual obsession, and other forms of addictions that deaden the knowledge of the Mythos as a sympton of lost SAN rather than as stopgap solution. I once asked the Keeper of my DG campaign half-seriously if there was any SAN benefit to the fact that my character was now drinking himself to sleep and dropping bennies to wake up. The answer was "no", and it was awhile before I understood that my character was doing those things because he had lost SAN, not preserve it. >Incidentally, I'd say the character of Andrea as imagined on this list - >that is, the "cleaner" for ops gone bad - fits this profile rather nicely. >Andrea just knows that the clean-up jobs are paramount, and that's a >matter of extreme importance. >Stuff about fishmen and greys and what are of no import. >And we still do not know how many Andreas are there. Have you read the comic "100 Bullets"? I'll bet Andrea(s) is/are Alphonse's own version of the Minutemen, but their job is not so much to ride herd over the rest of DG as to be there to take out Alphonse when the time comes. Although I also like the idea that Andrea as the Minutemen is also there is clip the Friendlies and maybe even the contact Agents if DG gets too close to exposure. >I seem to remember some players adapted chunks of "Unknown Armies" for DG >games. >In UA there's rules to describe the fact that you can actually get used to >the uncanny, developing sort of a sanity-preserving mechanism. >Alphonse might be just hardened by years of dealing with the Mythos. It's called "Hardness". It is a fantastic mechanic, and SuperDave did a good job porting it to CoC for DG, but I'm dissapointed in that to use requires requires basically replacing the CoC sanity system rather than simply adding to it. But Hardness is kind of a part of what SAN measures. It is possible to drop to zero SAN while still having a zero Mythos score - that's how I would define the vast majority of those suffering from insanity. >This is the one I like best. Yeah, me too. >Alphonse (whose character stats I do not have handy, sorry) might be >driven over the edge slowly, by degrees and in a way that would allow him >to still do his job perfectly (for a while at least). >Now that would make for an excellent campaign - if a bit PISCES-y - for >veteran gamers (not necessarily veteran characters): DG cells start being >wiped out, ops go terribly wrong, and a bunch of survivors has to climb >the DG structure backwards to nail an insane coordinator whose less than >balanced choices and directives are endangering the structure itself. Yes, it makes for a more interesting turn than MJ-12 eventually turning on DG for a Gotterdammerung campaign. But there's also the possibility that Alphonse could go to zero SAN and not become a cultist. He might prefer a more prosaic form of wigging out... say, kidnapping and killing young female interns. Where was Alphonse when Chandra Levy disappeared? Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of CelticHound [celtichound@foobox.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:07 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Book Recommendation Greg Muir wrote: > But for a good book recommendation, Gates of Fire by Stephen Pressfield. > While posessing no explicit Mythos elements, this book still kicks total > ass. Literary answer to Gladiator, doing it with Greeks rather than Romans, > covering the Battle of Thermopylae. Great characterization, great writing, > great book. Yes, I really liked this, also. As a follow on, you might take a peek for Gene Wolf's "Soldier of the Mist" at your local used book store. He sees things that no one else can. And if he touches them... -- CH _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of RevolutionSF [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:51 PM To: RevolutionSF Staff; DGML Subject: [DG] Virus Alert Folks, In the last few days I've gotten several pieces of email from distinct email addresses, each with identical text and containing a pair of attachments. The subject lines varied. One was "Monsieur et Madame Guy HELARD", another was "tenantletter", and another was "Anthony". The sender addresses appeared to all be European. The text reads as follows: >Hi! How are you? > >I send you this file in order to have your advice > >See you later. Thanks One of the attachments calls itself a .doc file, and the other a .txt file. I get short story submissions from strangers all the time, but the warning lights went off on the first letter when the text was so vague, so I didn't open it. Let alone the next email, from a different address but with the same crap. I sent a reply to one of the senders asking for an explanation, and he said it is a virus and he's purging his system. So, consider yourself warned if you haven't already heard about this one. (I may well be behind the curve.) As usual, if you get an attachment from a stranger, drop that mofo. - Shane Ivey R E V O L U T I O N s f the revolution in sci-fi http://revolutionsf.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman [trollboy@shoggoth.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] toner supplies Kewl.. now I gotta remember what e-mail I subscribed with ;-) if no one else has done so yet, i'm going to call the spammer in question and do my "fear of god" speech... Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Site Designer: phpslash.org The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. -H.P. Lovecraft --------------------------------------------------------- Please do not resell my e-mail address to anyone or send me unsolicited e-mail --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher (Case Officer)" To: Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:21 PM Subject: RE: [DG] toner supplies > My apologies, folks. I have changed a setting on the list so it should now > refuse messages from nonsubscribers. > > - Shane Ivey > > R E V O L U T I O N s f > the revolution in sci-fi > http://revolutionsf.com/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > > [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Crossingham, Adam > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:13 AM > > To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' > > Subject: RE: [DG] toner supplies > > > > > > Hey, can the guy in charge of the list make sure this kind of > > thing doesn't > > get to the list again, like making accepting messages from members only? > > > > AFC > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: vortex@cardtown.com [mailto:vortex@cardtown.com] > > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:06 AM > > > Subject: [DG] toner supplies > > > > > _______________________________________ > > The Delta Green Mailing List > > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman [trollboy@shoggoth.net] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] toner supplies Kewl.. now I gotta remember what e-mail I subscribed with ;-) if no one else has done so yet, i'm going to call the spammer in question and do my "fear of god" speech... Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Site Designer: phpslash.org The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. -H.P. Lovecraft --------------------------------------------------------- Please do not resell my e-mail address to anyone or send me unsolicited e-mail --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher (Case Officer)" To: Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:21 PM Subject: RE: [DG] toner supplies > My apologies, folks. I have changed a setting on the list so it should now > refuse messages from nonsubscribers. > > - Shane Ivey > > R E V O L U T I O N s f > the revolution in sci-fi > http://revolutionsf.com/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > > [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Crossingham, Adam > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:13 AM > > To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' > > Subject: RE: [DG] toner supplies > > > > > > Hey, can the guy in charge of the list make sure this kind of > > thing doesn't > > get to the list again, like making accepting messages from members only? > > > > AFC > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: vortex@cardtown.com [mailto:vortex@cardtown.com] > > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:06 AM > > > Subject: [DG] toner supplies > > > > > _______________________________________ > > The Delta Green Mailing List > > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Lee Williams [lee@grizz.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:07 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Virus Alert ----- Original Message ----- From: RevolutionSF To: RevolutionSF Staff ; DGML Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: [DG] Virus Alert > Folks, > > In the last few days I've gotten several pieces of email from distinct email > addresses, each with identical text and containing a pair of attachments. > The subject lines varied. One was "Monsieur et Madame Guy HELARD", another > was "tenantletter", and another was "Anthony". The sender addresses > appeared to all be European. > > The text reads as follows: > > >Hi! How are you? > > > >I send you this file in order to have your advice > > > >See you later. Thanks > > One of the attachments calls itself a .doc file, and the other a .txt file. > I get short story submissions from strangers all the time, but the warning > lights went off on the first letter when the text was so vague, so I didn't > open it. Let alone the next email, from a different address but with the > same crap. I sent a reply to one of the senders asking for an explanation, > and he said it is a virus and he's purging his system. > > So, consider yourself warned if you haven't already heard about this one. > (I may well be behind the curve.) As usual, if you get an attachment from a > stranger, drop that mofo. > > - Shane Ivey Yes indeed, this will be the 'Sircam worm' virus once again, the text is a dead give away...all I can say is BE CAREFUL, and if you use Outlook Express then disable the preview pane option...and yes, always kill any unexpected attachments :-) Lee Williams ICQ 25628876 Associate Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future http://www.demonground.org leewilliams@demonground.org _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane? From: "Gil Trevizo" > Have you read the comic "100 Bullets"? Oh yeah! Dizzy Cordova--Agent Laura's bad-girl twin. One of my new favorites, _100 Bullets_ is definitely worth looking into for inspiration. I see the Minutemen as an old Cowboy Days DG cell that never got called in by Alphonse (or refused his call), and has never stopped following the Cowboy Way. Agent Graves feels like a soulmate to Reggie Fairfield. No Mythos, but a lot of DG feel to it nonetheless. > I'll bet Andrea(s) is/are > Alphonse's own version of the Minutemen, but their job is not so much to > ride herd over the rest of DG as to be there to take out Alphonse when the > time comes. Although I also like the idea that Andrea as the Minutemen is > also there is clip the Friendlies and maybe even the contact Agents if DG > gets too close to exposure. And that's a good idea, too. > It's called "Hardness". It is a fantastic mechanic, and SuperDave did a > good job porting it to CoC for DG, but I'm dissapointed in that to use > requires requires basically replacing the CoC sanity system rather than > simply adding to it. Why, thank you. And I felt the same disappointment. I really want to revisit that and do a makeover, tweak it for elegance and so on, but it's the usual "not enough hours in the day" situation. The main part of the port-rules is in the Ice Cave, if anyone wants to look--or tweak. > But Hardness is kind of a part of what SAN > measures. It is possible to drop to zero SAN while still having a zero > Mythos score - that's how I would define the vast majority of those > suffering from insanity. Well, most people suffering from insanity have probably only had a sudden loss of 20% of their total, as most are curable. (Or at least treatable. That's one thing the rules don't deal with: Insanity as a result of chemical imbalances, rather than shock or horror. Something that runs in my family, and I'm very thankful I dodged that bullet. But I guess most people don't want to have their character start out with bipolar disorder.) Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:50 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Armor? From: "Gil Trevizo" > As for ARMOR armor like chainmail and breastplates and vambraces and so > on... hell, I dunno. Anybody got a copy of Runequest? Just for those unfamiliar with how body armor works, keep in mind that medieval-type armor will give very little protection against modern firearms. Myself, I would cut the listed values of chainmail, etc., to 20%, rounding to the nearest whole number, when trying to stop bullets (so most such armor would be worth 0-2 points of protection). Conversely, I've heard that Kevlar does a terrible job at stopping knives. OTOH, Michael Layne, I was once told that SCA-approved helmets had to be capable of stopping a .25 caliber bullet. Is that true, or was I being B-S'ed? Also, I've had lots of players who decided to start adding things to their equipment lists like custom-made Kevlar vambraces and shin-guards, bullet-proof sunglasses, and so on. I generally rule these things to be "virtually ineffective." The way I figure it, if the cops aren't using a piece of equipment, it's probably because it's not practical, and so a professional like a DG agent would probably follow suit unless he has a really good reason. And welcome back, Andy and Michael. And welcome, Wayne and Jim and, um, anyone else I missed. Dave, who fondly remembers a pre-DG-days "CIA agent," played by a non-regular in our group, who wore body armor over every hit location, and carried a SPAZ-12 shotgun, an FN-FAL assault rifle, *and* a Galil sniper rifle, on his person at all times during a mission. Don't even ask about how many *pistols* the guy carried (I think one was a Casull). The GM fiendishly allowed it. Poor guy got torn apart by a slow, shambling horde of zombies--they moved faster than he could. We were relieved--it's not easy to conduct an investigation with a gasping, sweating, walking battleship as part of your group. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:54 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Natural Laws not constant? http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/15/science/15PHYS.html?todaysheadlines The magnitude of the change apparently observed by the group is minute, amounting to just 1 part in 100,000 in a number called the fine structure constant over 12 billion years. That constant, also referred to as alpha, is defined in terms of more familiar quantities like the speed of light and the strength of electronic attractions within atoms. My flabber has never been so ghasted. Seriously. This might just be the biggest thing since, well, Quantum Mechanics. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/