From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Sylvain Clément [sylvain.clement@wanadoo.fr] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 6:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] buying Kevlar (Warning: crossbow fondling) M. Layne wrote : > The weight of a suit of armor, counting helm and shield, tended to > remain surprisingly constant during the medieval era, even as the armor type > shifted from mail to plate. You could expect to wear 55-65 lbs, but it was > well distributed over your body, and the normal years of training as a > Squire accustomed you to moving and fighting in it. I know a local troupe of showmen who, during summer, travel from one french touristic medieval place to another and exhibit reconstituted XVth-century wargear. In addition to demonstrating the efficiency of the ever-popular inquisition tools (using people from the curious crowd), they fight in complete suits of plate armour using maces, swords et al. One of them wears the replica of a 50-Kg (110 lbs) tournament armour while fighting, on foot, a guy in a 30-Kg (65 lbs) 'field' suit, just to impress the assembled throng of visitors with the sustained effort and the sheer noise of the fight. The men sure aren't as quick as unarmoured fighters, but not by a broad margin ; as long as they are standing and moving, you can't easily figure how to place an effective blow, while you still have to worry about that gleaming mace arcing toward your general direction. And the man in the 30-Kg suit just takes off his helm and wanders through the show with little apparent discomfort. They, and one craftsman in the region, make crossbows too, after the kind seen at the castle of Grandson (western Switzerland - loads of late-fifteenth century hardware there, including firearms and 20-ft pikes). The sheer diameter of the "string" (as thick as a finger in its middle), and the very solid look of the bow, are sufficient to convince the onlooker about its abilities. The quarrels, as their name implies, have a square or triangular cross-section, with a thickness ranging from 0.5 to 0.8" ; we are not talking about hunting points here ... > >The idea of some smart ass having a competent armorer (thanks to historical > >re-enactments and the SCA, there have to be some still alive) fashion plate > >mail from kick ass materials like titanium, osmium, or even spent uranium > >has just occurred to me. With about three times the density of iron, we should contemplate the use of very thin plates, or step up towards power armour. > There are more than a few competent armorers still making harness both > in and out of the SCA. A SCAdian fighter can buy a suit of plate armor from > such a craftsman, if he or she is willing to wait a few months, and pay as > much as they might for a good used car... Each Pennsic will find several of > them set up in the Merchants' Area, selling armor components (vambraces, > knee cops, helms, etc.) or offering to build custom harnesses... One of the aforementioned crossbow reconstruction requires, in these parts, at least a 6-month wait and something like 3000-5000 french francs (in the $400-650 range). > Titanium, carbon fiber, etc. are specifically forbidden for SCA legal > armor, though an armorer with access to these materials and the right > facilities (working titanium is no fun...) could probably build a 60 lb suit > of plate that could turn Magnum revolver rounds! Let's remember, then, Troy Urtubise's impressive "ursus suit", and the integrated multipurpose suit he envisioned, should he get enough funding. > IIRC, the Star League, in the BattleTech universe, had deployed, in > limited quantities, a one-ton battlesuit, powered by a small fusion reactor, > with active armor segments that could be set off by the wearer's command, > for a Claymore-like effect on lightly armored troops attempting an overrun > attack. Yes, the very reason why infantry is not safe in the vicinity of ERAed tanks, or russian tanks equipped with that shrapnel-dispensating anti-missile system. > Haldeman's troopers, in his "Forever War" stories, wore a battlesuit > with the sort of rapid camo capability you're talking about, and some > Imperial Marine armor in "Traveller" also had such capabilities. Haldeman proposes a wide choice of weapons in his novels, including grenades that project a cloud of volatile crystals (utterly lethal in a few meters radius, and harmless just outside their sublimation-by-friction range), or an expendable über-shotgun that fires an hemispherical shell of shaped-charge submunitions. Not mentioning the melee capabilities of the suit itself. > >But it doesn't matter a pinch of piss in the wind to a shoggoth. > > Oh, I don't know.... A battlesuited Mythos Trooper could easily kill a > shoggoth! Let him engulf you, then activate all your active armor segments > at once, blasting him apart from the inside! (If that doesn't work, trigger > your suit's self-destruct system -- if it detonates the power supply, the > explosion of all of your ammo will probably go unnoticed in the huge blast > that vaporizes the shoggoth! Pity you can't do it more than once, but your > next of kin will appreciate the posthumous medal the nice General hands to > them...):) Hardening the soldier's mind would, as usual, be at least as important as bestowing him with hard-ass weapons. A peculiar cocktail of combat drugs, combined with psychological indoctrination, would be required for me to be willing to *wait* to be thoroughly engulfed before detonating the charges at the right time. And, at last, the ObDG : Three years ago, I bought kevlar light gloves out of curiosity, and used one to conduct a series of simple home tests. First, I laid it on a phone book, and stabbed it as violently as possible with a screwdriver. The tool then stood upright in the book, but the kevlar fibers weren't ruptured : I got the screwdriver out simply by pulling on the glove. Second, I stabbed the glove with a knife, which got right through the fibers. For the sake of comparison, I then stabbed in several thicknesses of folded denim, and in a comparable amount of kevlar (I cut and folded the glove to that end). The kevlar offered slightly more resistance to the edged blade, but nothing conclusive. To the contrary, it stopped the blunt screwdriver while the denim got pierced. Then, I shot the kevlar sample with a powerful airgun (nothing more, because my sample was something very light) ; the pellet got deeply embedded in the underlying wooden stand, but came out when I briskly pulled on the sample's edges. Quick conclusions are that even dense, multi-layered kevlar (or, I believe, Spectra) cannot make you safe against small edged weapons pushed with some force, unless it is embedded in rigid epoxy (as in a "fritz" helmet) or interlaced with metallic scales or plates. Against blunt objects, it can help, by converting would-be penetrating hits to "mere" concussive ones. Nil novi sub sole I guess ... Sylvain Clément _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:16 AM To: Delta Green List Subject: [DG] From the CDC this Week Two items of potential interest. First, since some of you are cat-fondlers like Grandfather http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5033a1.htm Tularemia in Oklahoma http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5033a2.htm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ John Petherick, CIH ROH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 12:45 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG]: The Delta Green Toolkit I'm a little late but here's my comments: THE DELTA GREEN TOOLKIT [snip, snip, aargh, bang, bang] Good work. Mr. Trevizo. My additions to these things would be: Oven-cleaning spray: As it breaks ups grease, it is good for removing fingerprints. Also, I have heard that spraying blood or other biological substances with it might screw up DNA tests, which can be very nice. Although we need more than one bottle to clean up the mess left by Agent Layne when he runs over the DYoSN with my M-50 Ontos Sports Utility Vehicle. A nice little bag of PCP: My players have a habit of planting drugs on suspects. Also, a good explanation why the guy didn't stop after you emptied your gun in him. " He was high on angel dust. Figures why he didn't stop when you chain-sawed him in two." Untraceable cheapo handgun: See LA Confidential why this is a good thing to carry around. Don't leave any fingerprints, though. Interrested parties should also check out the Unknown Armies "Lawyers, Guns and Money"-supplement. Chapter 2: a nice set of tools of the trade. Jussi, loading the Ontos for another vroom vroom, bang bang mission P.S: The new issue of Fortean Times is very interesting. Much DG-significance. One letter to the editor even mentioned stealth blimps tested by the US military. They're unto us! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications > The use of newsgroups from the alt.binaries.erotica world was for > psychological camo. When conspiring never ever ever try to be innocent. > People who investigate people don't believe in innocence and they will not > stop searching until they find something. Make sure they find something > incriminating that has nothing to do with anything important. The concept of > putting communications in embarrassing newsgroups is to leave a sticky trail > in browsers and cache files to explain furtive behavior. When someone comes > up behind you as you (like an amateur or a movie character) look at your DG > messages at work they will see you goofing off in a porn forum. For > embarrassing fetishes, maybe even with hints of illegality. I suggested > kiddy porn, but gay is enough to lose a security clearance. A few reasons the "mp4" would be better here, IMnO. A) when you get down to it, what's outlined is illegal. B) provides all the excuses you need for shifty behavior while being more or less socially acceptable (hello, Napster). C) Transit and route are flexible. Post to a alt.binaries.mp3.requests or whatever with a "very real" and "very public" remark on requests or one's recent killer uploads, even post the files themselves publically. There's nothing wrong with the pr0n scheme, though, however I had to have a few laughs about it. Also, some agents may still have families, so their interacting with pr0n may speed up their isolation. > I like the stuff about the bogus unformatted partition and the PCMCIA card. > It isn't fool-proof and certainly isn't unbreakable, but it's an ANSWER and > it *looks* like it would work. It's like movie explanations with a gifted > technical consultant who won't allow bullshit. A separate drive, I think would not fly, simply because, "Hey, what's that thing." the partition is hiding it in plain view, ya know? and I think everyone with computer literacy 10% or higher has had their personal computer messed up by someone with CL < 10%. so. the excuse flies nicely. Also gets the other person to bugger off, as they most likely are such a person. > Which brings up my philosophy of guerrilla tradecraft. When confronted with > superior technology and resources do not compete with technology. Always > play as if ECHELON is listening and CARNIVORE is reading everything you > send. The steganography is not the security of the newsgroup tactic. The > security is that no one is looking there for messages. Pretend that any and > all encryption can be beat, so don't depend on it. Hide within the ocean of > data among the schools of little fish, don't swim around like a big > encrypted game fish. This mentality I agree for the most part (there is a line to be drawn when all DG agents decide to standard issue horse drawn buggies), which seems to butt heads with a number of specific portions of the text. That's all. It was the mentality of the "Let's aim for the ultimate armor." type thing that there are a few threads running around on DGML at the moment about. Not that it isn't a good exercise, mind you, but I'm envisioning legions of DG agents demanding their character never leaves the bedroom without his UltraMegaDUcomposite full body plate. > Looking at *all* the email travelling about isn't possible, so make all your > messages join the vast hordes filtered out of the queue for consideration. > This is accomplished by not using an ID that is being scrutinized, and not > sending anything that looks like it's got an encrypted message. So, sending Presumeably a few DG agents communicate on a professional level with a few other DG agents, or have other normal lines of communication, exchanging completely ordinary email ("My daughter lost her first toohh today.") and the typos are a simple cipher... Okay, maybe not. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 1:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] buying Kevlar (Warning: crossbow fondling) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > It would probably go through a Class IIA vest... If a hunting point > doesn't, try a bodkin point -- those were designed to defeat plate armor! I doubt it. It seems to me the bodkin would act like the screwdriver agent Clement used. However, if I can get round to it and afford it, I will let you all know the results. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Don Fougere [bolide@mars.ark.com] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:39 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Nanotechnology Images - since you mentioned it.... FYI http://www.mdl.sandia.gov/micromachine/images.html Cheers, Don Fougere Image Sleuth - Analytical Imaging Solutions Lazo, B.C. bolide@mars.ark.com From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:19 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Nanotechnology Images - since you mentioned it.... Try these also. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v412/n6848/fig_tab/412697a0_F1.html The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Fougere http://www.mdl.sandia.gov/micromachine/images.html _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of g m [sneezythesquid@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 3:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG T-Shirts > PLEASE order one! I think Rob Thomas is waiting > until enough people have > sent him their money for their shirts before he gets > them printed up, and ::SNIP:: Cool, ordering insturctions, please? > But the old DGML T-Shirt Project started wayyyyy > back when the MiB's head > exploded, which would be about three years ago, I ::SNIP:: Good lord, has it been that long? Talk about missing time. CRAP! I've been Yithian-ed! =] So, did that first shirt come out, and by second DGML project, was the first Emerald Hammer? Sneezy the (missing-brained) Squid __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shoggoth [root@shoggoth.net.dhis.org] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 8:13 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Why Hasn't Alphonse Gone Insane? I'm guessing.. Alfonse......... alzis ? (just an evil througth) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 9:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG T-Shirts From: "g m" > Cool, ordering insturctions, please? Oh yeah. Um, I don't have Rob's address handy, but here's an email address tht I think was specifically for T-Shirt Orders: From: "Agent Michael" Rob or Phil, if that's wrong, could you please correct it? I actually don't remember the price; I think it was about GBP15 or so, including shipping. > So, did that first shirt come out, and by second DGML > project, was the first Emerald Hammer? Emerald Hammer isn't finished by a long shot! Nope, the first official (?) DGML project to come to completion was the Challenge from Beyond (-ond, -ond, -ond ~ ~ [echo effect]), although the final touches are still being applied. (I've done the copy editing, and in spare moments I'm slowly pecking away at some criticism/feedback as requested by some writers, while Davide Mana is making the final version looks beautiful.) Dave CfB2K: www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/Robin.htm _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shoggoth [root@shoggoth.net.dhis.org] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 9:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] toner supplies El Lunes 20 Agosto 2001 23:02, escribiste: > Kewl.. now I gotta remember what e-mail I subscribed with ;-) if no one > else has done so yet, i'm going to call the spammer in question and do my > "fear of god" speech... > > Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman > Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Hey , Matt , nice to meet you in this list! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Khorne [khorne@cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 9:13 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] buying Kevlar (Warning: crossbow fondling) ">Let's remember, then, Troy Urtubise's impressive "ursus suit", and the >integrated multipurpose suit he envisioned, should he get enough funding." This guy is a complete fucking lunatic. If he thinks a hundred pounds of titanium and padding is gonna keep Papa Bear from pulling his empty little head off, he's found some sort of drug I want a ton of right now. Any idiot who thinks that armor is better that common sense and...dare I say it?...brains when dealing with a bear is the sort of person I hope to Christ never successfully reproduces. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shoggoth [root@shoggoth.net.dhis.org] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 9:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Gone Insane? El Lunes 20 Agosto 2001 16:51, escribiste: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Zeller" > > > The point is that some substance that blunts emotional responses to avoid > > san loss could be a very useful thing, but you'd have to be very careful [snip] > > I do remember, overwhelmingly, the perception that my Self was a > *mechanism* - and a mechanism which included elements to hide its > mechanical nature from its governing consciousness, and make itself seem > human. > > This is something that also comes out strongly in, for example, the > writings of Phil Dick. [snip] Well , in David Brin's "Sundiver" , you have a very clever example of how an artificially induced sociopatic side-personality can be roleplayed , if not lived. The thing is simple. All that is a matter of Archetipes. You can modelate a personality , and roleplay it since if becomes part of you , with full conscience of what you are doing , and borrow it to surface in the need. More advanced methods can be autohipnosis , drug-induced brain-wash under friendly control , or some other mechanism you care to name. The bottomline is this. The human brain is a really amazing thing. And so flexible and programmable that can alter its programation if given the correct codes. A safeguard against some kind of mind-shattering experiencies maybe can be allowed , but i should treat it as a "dice re-roll oportunity" if some of my players come to me with a idea as such. (hell , they are not so clever , ...maybe i could suggest it via some player that came as "Special apperance" , .... i'll see to it..) thats my 0.02 Euros... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Don Fougere [bolide@mars.ark.com] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 9:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Gunfondling imagery resource Keyword Search: Handgun, Pistol, Gun, Firearm, Sidearm I found this one kick-ass online catalogue that has images of just about every handgun or rifle a person could need in a DG campaign. I scale the images to actual size, print them out, including an image reverse, then glue the printouts onto styrene plastic or illustration board and cut out the pistol shape as 2D props for the players. Includes stats, pricing, variants and differing finishes. http://www.galleryofguns.com/gungallery/PowerSearch/PowerSearch.asp Cheers, Don Fougere Image Sleuth - Analytical Imaging Solutions Lazo, B.C. bolide@mars.ark.com From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 10:57 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Delta Green Toolkit, v.1.0 At 09:18 PM 8/23/2001 -0700, Ethan Butterfield wrote: > > Anyone know what net access would be like through a Globalstar or Iridium > > phone? > >Satellite Internet access is generally ok. The main problem you have is >very bad latency (usually ~500ms up to the sat and ~500ms down), so Quake >is pretty much out of the question. What would this mean in terms of uploading or downloading: a) a 10-20K text message b) a 1 MB graphics file These would seem to me be among the two most common types for uploads/downloads DG agents would be interested in making, either a short text file explaining the situation and maybe asking for assistance, or some kind of image. I am assuming that anything near real-time video transmission would be out of the question, and I'm not even sure if real-time text communcation could take place. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Ethan Butterfield [primus@veris.org] Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Delta Green Toolkit, v.1.0 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Aug 25, 2001 at 08:57:02PM -0700, Gil Trevizo wrote: > What would this mean in terms of uploading or downloading: > > a) a 10-20K text message > > b) a 1 MB graphics file > Any data transfer will take longer to accomplish, because of the larger amount of time it will take the packets to reach their destination. (That is, in fact, the definition of latency: the amount of time it takes a packet to travel from start to finish.) > These would seem to me be among the two most common types for > uploads/downloads DG agents would be interested in making, either a short > text file explaining the situation and maybe asking for assistance, or some > kind of image. I am assuming that anything near real-time video > transmission would be out of the question, and I'm not even sure if > real-time text communcation could take place. Right now in the civilian sector, the best you could hope for is what you see places like CNN doing: a video feed that's delayed by a second or two from real-time. Text would be the same way. If you've ever talked on the phone to someone on another continent (or used one of the satellite phone systems like Iridium), then you know what the delay would be like. Agents would still be able to get e-mail, pop small images back and forth, even log into remote servers over a sat link and it will still be perfectly usable. Video or text conferencing is also possible, with the aforementioned delays. There are two things to remember here, if you're going for decent realism. First, satellite Internet is usually very expensive in terms of the initial investment (gotta have a dish) and the monthlies. DirecTV had a cheaper satellite Internet service for a while, but it was cheap because it was only one-way. Downloads were via the sat link, while uploads were over a POTS line. There also isn't much left in the way of vendors after the dotcom implosion. Globalstar is about it, and their financials aren't that great. Your agents also might raise suspicions if they're running around with a satellite dish on their head, Al Franken-style. Secondly, your agents better make damn sure they're running their traffic over SSH tunnels, or some sort of IPSec implementation. Satellite transmissions are wide open channels, and you just know MJ-12's got backdoors into all the commercial satellites. - -- "And as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." - Talking Heads, "(Nothing But) Flowers" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7iHmeAmwSMwnpLHgRAouiAKDgGS6Ov9rlXaXXgqiRa7kSpQPv8gCgvfyJ eg7qLEwZM/O9XogHcJ4ykxY= =9piA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:11 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Any satelite types in the house? > > What would this mean in terms of uploading or downloading: > > a) a 10-20K text message > > b) a 1 MB graphics file > Any data transfer will take longer to accomplish, because of the larger > amount of time it will take the packets to reach their destination. (That > is, in fact, the definition of latency: the amount of time it takes a > packet to travel from start to finish.) Urf, you've confused bandwidth for latency, you've had to. Yes. > Agents would still be able to get e-mail, pop small images back and forth, > even log into remote servers over a sat link and it will still be > perfectly usable. Video or text conferencing is also possible, with the > aforementioned delays. Small images? That's a bandwidth, not a latency issue. If they're able to video conference via satelite, you can send a large graphics file, because they're the same thing. So video conferencing with anything decent for broadcast quality would hint we have enough bandwidth that your graphics file and text message very well might take the same amount of time, since the file transfers verify writes, you'd bottleneck at latency over bandwidth. Please, hit me if I'm wrong. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Ethan Butterfield [primus@veris.org] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:26 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Any satelite types in the house? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 01:11:03AM -0400, talaphid wrote: > Urf, you've confused bandwidth for latency, you've had to. Yes. > Nope, I made sure of that before I posted since I always get them mixed up. Latency is the amount of time it takes for a packet to travel from source to destination. http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/l/latency.html Bandwidth is the amount of data that can be transmitted in a fixed amount of time. http://webopedia.internet.com/TERM/b/bandwidth.html > Small images? That's a bandwidth, not a latency issue. If they're able to > video conference via satelite, you can send a large graphics file, because > they're the same thing. > You'll be able to send the files fine. It's just going to take longer than normal since you're bouncing off a satellite, rather than running through land (and bottom-of-ocean) based fiber. Hitting a satellite adds ~500ms of latency if you're damn lucky and the weather cooperates. Normally, it's around a full second. > So video conferencing with anything decent for broadcast quality would hint > we have enough bandwidth that your graphics file and text message very well > might take the same amount of time, since the file transfers verify writes, > you'd bottleneck at latency over bandwidth. Please, hit me if I'm wrong. Yes, it is true that the bottleneck over a satellite link is latency, and not bandwidth. Could've sworn I said that a couple e-mails ago. :) - -- "And as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." - Talking Heads, "(Nothing But) Flowers" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7iIhpAmwSMwnpLHgRAjl5AJ9nFW6o1fn/R2RVxc4CQcTL158TpQCgwvzj jivF2x0bBBvTUfW9rJqwnDo= =mgH+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:47 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications At 04:32 AM 8/25/2001 -0400, talaphid wrote: >Go with ordinary plaintext to friends, families, or institutions, consisting >of perfectly ordinary things that may even be an article of busiiness, but >let's say the fifth letter on the fourth line of a every email between >agents that know each other... if it is a typo, it corresponds to one of >twenty-five messages. or message types. Simple embedded ciphers that have >unique cell meanings for the sharing of data. I don't think twenty-five messages/message types would be enough to cover the communication needed between cells, much less between agents in cells. Remember that email seems to be the primary form of communication in DG (from my reading of the DG sourcebook). >Also, anonymity online is a bit of a myth for the by and large part, even >using BNCs er... 'anonymous computer servers', even expressly set up for the >purpose. Your best bet is to more or less go with the flow, hide in plain >internet sight, and open proxy through brazil, because there's either a >communication issue or a lack of care issue protecting you from human agents >of persuit. To quote Bruce Harada: "Proxy servers don't help you that much; after all, someone's got to run the proxy server, and if it's an "official" one, the users are presumably subject to observation. If it's "unofficial", someone will come asking. Who's to say that the public anonymous proxies aren't secretly run by the Government, just to see who is paranoid enough to use them?" I not sure this invalidates what you're stating, though. >So. Anyway. This section needs serious revising. I like simple dummy >ciphers, it fits in with the whole spirit of You have been coordially >invited... Note that a lot of this comes out of the sourcebooks. I added a few details here and there, but the bulk of it is pure-Pagan. I think if it I was home-brewing this entirely, I would use a very different system. This isn't to say that I know what I'm doing here - I don't, and was hoping for responses like this to tighten it all up. But I do think the PGP encryption will suffice - it isn't perfect but breaking the code won't compromise the entire system (just that agent, unless someone was stupid enough to use real names, traceable phone numbers, or addresses in their email). >They all use touchpads as mice (ouch) -- so they can have thumbprint >scanners for verifying (as a first level defense) the user's identity. Would this kind of equipment fit on a laptop without being noticeable? >But a network of DG servers.. or rather, lots of servers that are maintained >by DG friendlies / agents, who let out one of their farm into a greater >collective DG server farm, that's bueno. > >but online.. everything's traceable, everything's logged, everything's no >bueno para operations. I'm not sure what you're saying here - that a network of DG servers is okay if each server is part of a legitimate network of servers so that it is "hidden" within legit activity? >Again, you are putting all your hens in one basket (that is the metaphor, >right?) unnecessarily... even unwisely. throw in a hundred unlimited cards >in the middle of AT+T, and noone will ever find them. But here you have.. >dun dun dun, RDI. Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with RDI either. If there were a number of small companies with their own fronts rather than just RDI, I might feel more secure, as the paper trail wouldn't be so direct. But RDI is straight out of the Project RAINBOW chapbook. However, I do understand that DG has to keep this to a small company using non-franchise stores, because a large corporation is going to want control and oversight, and unless DG holds supreme power within that corporation, the corp will eventually want to know what's going on. This is not an operation some mid-level employee in AT&T could swing, or even a vice-president. >the migrant thing, too, it just doesn't rub me right. That's my touch, based on the episode of The Sopranos that involved the illegal trade in pre-paid phone cards to immigrants. It's not central, just to say who are the primary consumer of these kinds of cards. > > communicating with friendlies or type the code name of the desired agent > > into the telephone keypad. The connection is then sent through an >automated > > central telephone router where it is automatically encrypted and swept for > > most types of listening devices. Any irregularity results in the standard > > recorded error message that states the call cannot be completed as dialed. > > Records of the user's call only show the 1-800 number to Remote Data. > >This really is James Bonding the universe. >A little box agents keep on hand when they have a cell to sweep for >listening devices (pitch/tone irregularity when the sound is heard back) is >plausible. A central facility? I have no idea how this is managed. What you have quoted above is all straight out of Project RAINBOW, so of it even verbatim. Is it James Bonding the universe? Maybe. I think any centralized network of communications - phone, email, whatever - is gonna James Bond the universe, if you want to see it that way. To do otherwise would be to leave each cell with their own form of communications and their own method of getting A-Cell's attention and vice-versa. Maybe that is the best method. I think the Remote Data phone card scheme is not exactly the hi-tech spy savvy operation of the Bondverse. That's part of the problem - it's not the most secure thing possible. But it is *understandable* that DG might've set up something like this because it was feasible to do. >Now, if you're going for this scale, GO THE WHOLE NINE YARDS. They're really >using a disused sub-subway system underneath new york, so anytime anyone >comes looking (yeah, right, like the giant insects wouldn't eat them on the >way anyway), they just rail away, rail away, the whole facility. Yeah, another problem I have with the RDI setup is the Mafia connection. It seems like a lot more trouble than its worth. I am also afraid of what might happen if the local Guido-In-Charge decides to hire a phone tech with a lack of scruples to come down and figure out how to use all this call-routing equipment they have in the corner of their meth lab to set up their own cards and sell them on the street. That Sopranos episode showed there is an illegal trade in these things, after all. But, this is, like so many other things, out of Project RAINBOW. Now, onto to the web stuff, which I do have to take the blame for... >Little nerd bois and girls run their own private FTPs and engage in the >quasilegal swappage of files, or so my alarm clock radio tells me. Popular >are mp3s. Well, hello. new compression format, the [let's pretend fictional] >mp4, achieves better quality and requires less dataspace. and each mp4 is a >distributed archive file for DG. And Bill Gates now targets the creators of MP4 as his latest and greatest enemy to crush into the ground to let Windows Media Player to reign uber alles. Remember that mp3 came about when few people knew its potential, and now it is big business and several major players are vying for the title of its successor. >hiding in plain sight. required logins, >passes, and requisite palm grease (in this case, albums) are kept in wide DG >circulation, perhaps even on a public front for all to peekat. Agent wants >files in circulation? He satisfies a request for an album, and imbedded >amoung the files in the album are portions of a file. another agent d/l's >the file How would the agent know what file to download? The rest is not a bad idea, but I'm unsure how the agent would know what to look for, or even when to look. >i just wanted to illuminate that 'wiped clean' may be uh... the wrong phrase >there. at the least, indescript. I'm well aware of that, which is why I added that the servers are physically destroyed after a year in use. >Sorry, Gil, I really love your lists, and I'm probably less useful than ever >writing at this hour, but there was something that I felt needed amending, >the rest just sort of burped up. Forgiveness? No need, this is exactly what I was looking for. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications At 02:26 AM 8/25/2001 -0700, CelticHound wrote: >How many IT people will all this require? Will the tech(s) be able to >figure out the entire DG roster? (Gawd! They're as bad as secretaries and >messaging specialists.) Will they outnumber the entire DG roster? Good point. The issues with the communications article seem to be centered on the web aspect. If we limit DG comm to email, phone, and mail, all that is required is a Remote Data phone card and a PGP key. No need for the DG-enabled notebook computer, and I'm not convinced that DG really needs to share files over the net. If it's too sensitive to be sent through the mail, send it with a DG agent (or several agents) as a courier. I think that may be what the finished article may go with, but I'll wait to see how the conversation here plays out. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 1:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Any satelite types in the house? > > Urf, you've confused bandwidth for latency, you've had to. Yes. > Nope, I made sure of that before I posted since I always get them mixed > up. Latency is the amount of time it takes for a packet to travel from > source to destination. > Bandwidth is the amount of data that can be transmitted in a fixed amount > of time. Yes. The key point being large bandwidth and latency, you're going to want to send larger packets. Or, to go back to the 10K/1M question... it makes a difference on dialup, because you have little bandwidth. You send (and verify, that being the key part) your whole tiny bandwidth very quickly. On satelite, I'm working with the presumption we have broadband-*ish* bandwidth, so .. You send a gob, be it 1M/10K, but it takes longer for the gob to arrive. The dialup will beat you sending the 10K file, but the satelite will beat the 1M. Like a fast guy with short legs versus a slow guy with long legs... except the long legs when they do cover terrain, cover a bit more. Yeah Okay. I have my metaphor. I came, I saw, I metaphored. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of PoetryandtheGods@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 1:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] The Zarr I've just signed on to the list within the last 24 hours, and I was wondering if anyone out there had any information at the Zarr? Bruce _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications > I don't think twenty-five messages/message types would be enough to cover > the communication needed between cells, much less between agents in > cells. Remember that email seems to be the primary form of communication > in DG (from my reading of the DG sourcebook). Two typos in one message 25^2. Three. 25^3. Considering the average American's typing habits, having sufficent detail (message resolution determined by cipher depth) in a message and concealing it should be child's play. Of course, once -agents- (plural) are compromised and survailed, the code would begin to break down. There are a few extra things that could be thrown in, say date dependent shift on the meanings, et cet. Maybe I should attend a cryptography class. > >Also, anonymity online is a bit of a myth for the by and large part, even > >using BNCs er... 'anonymous computer servers', even expressly set up for the > >purpose. Your best bet is to more or less go with the flow, hide in plain > >internet sight, and open proxy through brazil, because there's either a > >communication issue or a lack of care issue protecting you from human agents > >of persuit. I would've thought I covered that point, but for some reason I'm reading/responding to these in the wee hours of the morning, so it's probably more stupid than me talking. Proxies run by DGs, or at the least, DG friendlies. If I remember correctly though, some people who travel that way of their own paranoia (that is, they're failing SAN roles without any Mythos experience) mention that such bounces tend to get A) abused B) door knockings from the Fed, c) Fold like a lawn chair and d) fully disclose logs. This wouldn't be an issue if it's a DG run or DG friendly run bounce. The reason I mentioned brazil, by the way, is that I was of the impression they lack extradition treaties, which makes (Non-Brazillian) government intervention in one's wild and wooly escapades online improbable. Friends mention that some sites that are run on rotating servers here on the US tend to just sit in BR. So. The name was particular, and might be a good name drop. Also, if you want to fast forward your campaign a year or two from now to when WindowsXP is all over the consumer marketplace... ffft, open proxies for everyone, honest. > I not sure this invalidates what you're stating, though. It did, to some degree, but I think my details worked around it. > Note that a lot of this comes out of the sourcebooks. I added a few > details here and there, but the bulk of it is pure-Pagan. I think if it I > was home-brewing this entirely, I would use a very different system. This > isn't to say that I know what I'm doing here - I don't, and was hoping for I'm afraid the people I know who know this stuff and I have some difference of opinions on ethics, and strangely enough, not regarding these subjects of contention... otherwise I would have hassled one into writing my responses on this subject. As it is, I'm just gurgling up half remembered portions of conversations. > >They all use touchpads as mice (ouch) -- so they can have thumbprint > >scanners for verifying (as a first level defense) the user's identity. > Would this kind of equipment fit on a laptop without being noticeable? my notebook has a touchpad. most notebooks have a knob stuck near the J key, or a touchpad. these are extremely unpleasent to use until one adapts (dex rolls, thanks). just modify the touchpad to also have a light scanner and small subprocessor for checking fingerprints. I have no idea if that's beyond the miniaturization of today, but it is not inconceiveable, which makes it plausible for DG. so. the pad itself is inconspicuous, as it is fairly standard on notebooks (it or the knob is definately standard issue). the thumbprint extra would be machinations inside the notebook, and their being concealed is plausible enough today, if not possible 'in reality'. > >But a network of DG servers.. or rather, lots of servers that are maintained > >by DG friendlies / agents, who let out one of their farm into a greater > >collective DG server farm, that's bueno. > > > >but online.. everything's traceable, everything's logged, everything's no > >bueno para operations. > > I'm not sure what you're saying here - that a network of DG servers is okay > if each server is part of a legitimate network of servers so that it is > "hidden" within legit activity? Sorry. I was going off on a computer fondling exercise, without sharing it with you. Bob works at an internet company. Bob's company has 40 servers that do various tasks for various companies. One of them is www.yahoo.com for everyone that is a customer of his internet company, for example. two of them do email for all of his internet company customers. one's a newsgroup server. ten of them handle personal customer webpages. so on. Bob is a DG friendly. Bob has set up a machine on the third rack, fourth column to handle whatever data DG agents see fit to put on it. One server hidden in the midst of many other servers. There is no DG facility to raid, no conspicuous line of data to trail. One person burping in a crowd of shouters. And there are lots of Bobs, at lots of other companies. Lots being relative, of course. It's more of this hiding in plain sight, and with this sort of allocation scheme, there's no need to worry about the money infrastructure. Ie, where the @#$@ is the funding coming from. Bob just maintains the server as a normal part of his company's business, so the DG expense becomes the company expense, and it's one server of many, so noone's the wiser. Bob's the only farm maintainer guy, so he's the only one who even knows it is there. Bob's sick? He could probably just swipe the BIOS battery and noone'd figure out how to fix the thing. Noone would trash it, either, because the hard drive data is a customer's (presumeably), so they'd wait for ol' genius Bob to show up at work and work some magic, fixing it. Amazing. There's no need for a 'network' per se, either. Perhaps one facility is aware of four others, two ahead of it in the chain, two behind it. If one is compromised, the next two are (but may have time to cover up), and two beyond that .. well, they knit together, covering the wound of the missing link. A network, yes, of sorts. > Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with RDI either. If there were a number of > small companies with their own fronts rather than just RDI, I might feel > more secure, as the paper trail wouldn't be so direct. But RDI is straight > out of the Project RAINBOW chapbook. Well, the rest of DG can use RDI, more power to them. > the corp will eventually want to know what's going on. This is not an > operation some mid-level employee in AT&T could swing, or even a > vice-president. Well, the idea being that 16 or 20 calling cards being accidentally put into the indefinate usage pile as a billing oversite isn't too insane. I'm aware of similar circumstances going unchecked at medium sized corps in other industries. While a more competiently run business should catch these on a regular basis, having a few more slip through the cracks as necessary isn't inconceiveable. all you need is one guy who knows the right piles, can take the day or two off, shift things around. more a question of having a planted friendly with a few years in the corp. Planned accidents, noise, not an operation. If you don't mind really recycling, have a few Bobs across the telecomm industry, so you have 3 cards from this guy, three cards from that guy.. and they're not DG fronts, or sublets, they're just cards that a DG friendly appropriately misplaced at the right time. They'd have expiration dates... these could be either from card birth, or from the beginning of strange overuse... I would go with the latter, giving keeper agents more flexibility. "You have the connectivity with the card... but once you use it, the clock is ticking, and you will need to requisition another." well ,calander is ticking, anyway. > I have no idea how this is managed. What you have quoted above is all > straight out of Project RAINBOW, so of it even verbatim. Well, I can dislike even Pagan's methods. =p Er, I mean, constructively criticise.... > Is it James Bonding the universe? Maybe. I think any centralized network > of communications - phone, email, whatever - is gonna James Bond the > universe, if you want to see it that way. To do otherwise would be to > leave each cell with their own form of communications and their own method > of getting A-Cell's attention and vice-versa. Maybe that is the best method. I suppose you're right, I didn't think of it from the top down, but from the bottom up. I'm a small fry, what can I say? Eh. I like each cell figuring out their own way, but A-Cell only has so many lightbulbs to their yard. > to set up their own cards and sell them on the street. That Sopranos > episode showed there is an illegal trade in these things, after all. Profitable consumer desire leading to illegal trade? Why, what an astounding conclusion. > >Little nerd bois and girls run their own private FTPs and engage in the > >quasilegal swappage of files, or so my alarm clock radio tells me. Popular > >are mp3s. Well, hello. new compression format, the [let's pretend fictional] > >mp4, achieves better quality and requires less dataspace. and each mp4 is a > >distributed archive file for DG. > And Bill Gates now targets the creators of MP4 as his latest and greatest > enemy to crush into the ground to let Windows Media Player to reign uber > alles. Remember that mp3 came about when few people knew its potential, > and now it is big business and several major players are vying for the > title of its successor. I was avoiding the real world ffft regarding the MP layer compression scheme, and just using it in a nice, qaint, workable way. Gates is pushing an alternative format, WMA (Windows Media Audio, I think), and his selling point is superior quality (like a bitmap, rah rah) and digital signatures (which should get him laughed off the planet). anyway, anyone running their own FTP will happily use some media format that only they have heard of if there's a good reason for its existance. So. Real world nudging aside, no major issues with songs embedded with mythos. besides, weren't the beatles accused of doing this on vinyl? =p > >hiding in plain sight. required logins, > >passes, and requisite palm grease (in this case, albums) are kept in wide DG > >circulation, perhaps even on a public front for all to peekat. Agent wants > >files in circulation? He satisfies a request for an album, and imbedded > >amoung the files in the album are portions of a file. another agent d/l's > >the file > How would the agent know what file to download? The rest is not a bad > idea, but I'm unsure how the agent would know what to look for, or even > when to look. files located in the /UPLOADS/DAVID%2AGROSE/ folder may be of interest to agents... or /MY%2AMUSIC/DARK%2AGRANGERS/ grep l:*D*%2AG* * Yes, I have no idea what the proper syntax for grep is, but the matchtext for login: (ie, uploader) and something with a D, anything, then a space, and then a G and anything... would be another way. I don't remember whose idea that is, but it's amended for this case. I take no credit. Newspost guy. Yeah. > >i just wanted to illuminate that 'wiped clean' may be uh... the wrong phrase > >there. at the least, indescript. > I'm well aware of that, which is why I added that the servers are > physically destroyed after a year in use. Actually, I lie. That degause blasting? Part of one of my employs. I've been itching for a decent excuse to unload the experience. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 5:23 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Zarr From: > I've just signed on to the list within the last 24 hours Welcome, Bruce. >, and I was wondering > if anyone out there had any information at the Zarr? Are you by chance talking about Richard L. Tierny's story, The Winds of Zarr? Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean. (And even then, I haven't read it yet; I just know it should be in Chaosium's _Yog-Sothoth Cycle_.) Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 8:55 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [[DG] DG Communications] >Gil Trevizo wrote: >http://www.geocities.com/furrylogic2/communications.html >DG COMMUNICATIONS >Much of the following information was taken from the Delta Green and >Project Rainbow sourcebooks, as well as from discussions on the Delta >Green Neat Stuff, In our group most of the technology is buried in front companies. One of our companies makes the mildly popular lectium chip which contains embedded programming that allows any suitably equipped computer access like the "Code Red II" virus. The embedded equipment segments off a small portion of the hard drive for DG use and can can also burn out the computer beyond reasonable repair if pinged with a complex code burst. This is based on the concept used by SETI and in the ever popular Napster system. Image 120,000 computers each containing 2 meg of data. By duplicating data on multiple computers you can have 80%+ chance of retrieving necessary data. In addition there are several thousand computers to which we have access to romp and play. All for the cost of controlling interest in a moderate sized technology company (which these days come relatively cheaply). We also pay a group of friendlies in the phone company to place similar devices in routers at thousands of phone substations across the country to facilitate communications. Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of PoetryandtheGods@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 10:44 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Zarr << Are you by chance talking about Richard L. Tierny's story, The Winds of Zarr? Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean. (And even then, I haven't read it yet; I just know it should be in Chaosium's _Yog-Sothoth Cycle_.) >> Yeah, that is exactly what I am refering to. Bruce _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 10:36 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Magnetic shapes http://www.mi.sanu.ac.yu/vismath/takeno/ An interesting set of images produed by applying magnetic fields to fluids with dissplved iron filings or other responsive powders. Strange, near-organic, forms The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Pullen [david.pullen3@virgin.net] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Magnetic shapes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Robertson" > http://www.mi.sanu.ac.yu/vismath/takeno/ > > An interesting set of images produed by applying magnetic fields to fluids > with dissplved iron filings or other responsive powders. Strange, > near-organic, forms > > The Glove Cleaner > Interesting. Sort of a Techno-shoggoth, really. One problem I can forsee if using iron is that it could rust and turn your brand new monster a kacky brown colour. Also it wouldn't be able to leave the one room. Possibly it could be a really bad DG april fools joke or something? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:03 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Magnetic shapes ---- Original Message ----- From: "David Pullen" > From: "Andy Robertson" > > http://www.mi.sanu.ac.yu/vismath/takeno/ > > > > An interesting set of images produed by applying magnetic fields to fluids > > with dissplved iron filings or other responsive powders. > > Interesting. Sort of a Techno-shoggoth, really. That's exactly right. Jokes apart. I wonder if this sort of priniple might provide the basis for a "shoggoth" or a similar amorphous entity, if only the fields could be internally generated and controlled with enough accuracy. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:14 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications At 03:07 PM 8/25/2001 -0400, talaphid wrote: >A few reasons the "mp4" would be better here, IMnO. A) when you get down to >it, what's outlined is illegal. Actually, I would not count that as a plus. The porn stuff is unsavory but not illegal, and while it would turn heads out of distaste it wouldn't invite attention out of an official crackdown on copyright violations (or at least is less likely too - newsgroup porn is almost unilaterally violating copyright but there is nowhere near the corporate backlash against it like there is for mp3). >B) provides all the excuses you need for >shifty behavior while being more or less socially acceptable (hello, >Napster). C) Transit and route are flexible. Post to a >alt.binaries.mp3.requests or whatever with a "very real" and "very public" >remark on requests or one's recent killer uploads, even post the files >themselves publically. This seems fine, but I like the porn, because, well... it's porn. It's isolating yet seductive, satiating yet unfufilling. It's much more of the Vibe than mp3. >A separate drive, I think would not fly, simply because, "Hey, what's that >thing." Would you recognize it as "that thing" unless you broke open the case? I figure a search of anything less and it would just look an unformatted partition, but I'm not certain. And once they are breaking the case of the laptop, the game is most certainly up. You're not trying to get away without them knowing you're involved in something - they know you're involved in *something* - you're trying to get away without them knowing *what* you're involved in. >This mentality I agree for the most part (there is a line to be drawn when >all DG agents decide to standard issue horse drawn buggies), which seems to >butt heads with a number of specific portions of the text. That's all. It >was the mentality of the "Let's aim for the ultimate armor." type thing I agree. I am not comfortable with the web communication and DG-enabled laptop portion of the article. It was literally the best I could cobble together, and, as I said in another post, I'm still not even sure that DG needs anything more than phone, email, and snailmail communication systems. RDI takes care of the phone, a few watched-over "hidden" servers and PGP encryption is all that is needed for the email, and for the snailmail, I'd either send it through the regular mail from a false address (open the phonebook, pick a name and address, make sure the ZIP is right for their address perhaps with the aid of MapQuest, write down all that as the return address, and send it out) or by courier if you're worried about the mail being intercepted. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Ethan Butterfield [primus@veris.org] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 12:14:20AM -0700, Gil Trevizo wrote: > Actually, I would not count that as a plus. The porn stuff is unsavory but > not illegal, and while it would turn heads out of distaste it wouldn't > invite attention out of an official crackdown on copyright violations (or > at least is less likely too - newsgroup porn is almost unilaterally > violating copyright but there is nowhere near the corporate backlash > against it like there is for mp3). An interesting technique I'd like to bring up here is steganography. It's the process of hiding a coded message within a seemingly normal message, and I'm sure you folks are all aware of that. However, steganography is not limited to plain text. Take a standard pr0n image. What if, say, every 100th pixel's color in RGB, when reduced to a hex value, is actually the ASCII equivalent of a letter? Maybe if you run the image through a particular variant of a Fourier transform, you come up with a hidden text message? Or how about a pixel distribution graph? The possibilities are almost endless for the agent with a moderate knowledge of cryptography and mathematics. Hiding in plain sight, baby. What's one more pr0n image posted to alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.hamster? - -- "And as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention." - Talking Heads, "(Nothing But) Flowers" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7iUnpAmwSMwnpLHgRAiNpAKDJfCSxL9hmciUiPrNnl5Hi+1NEnwCfUjHw 0+K6QdXYMp6cXtFGP5J51m8= =t/29 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Machiavelli132@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Zarr Do you mean Zarr the Great Old One or Zarr that alien race mentioned somewhere in the Encyclopedia Cthulhiana? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jay Dugger [dugger@vss.fsi.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:51 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] ANDREA the thoughtfrom entity Sunday, 26 August 2001 [snip] > > What if ANDREA didn't exist, but she subsequently came into being. I've got [snip] > "Blood Music" discusses the idea W.P. Kinsella popularized in "Field of > Dreams" (if you build it, they will come). Basically, if you believe in I'd have called this a peripheral theme in Bear's book, but it exists in that text. > something strongly enough, it will exist. Your belief will energize a > concept into literal physical being, as happens with Bloody Mary and the > Candyman. John Keel calls these sorts of ideas come to life "thoughtform > entities". So, everyone in Delta Green, as well as ex-members and a few These "thought form entities" have also had the name "tulpas." [snip] For a detailed treatment of tulpas, I refer interested parties to the RPG "Over The Edge." See also the Ice Cave for OtE-related threads from Halcion (pun intended) days of yore. In particular, see the OtE supplement by Mr. Tynes. I think it has the title "Our Wildest Dreams," or something similar. It describes tulpas, the drug culture grown up around their excrement, a secret society exploiting them, and a mutant human strain immune to the tulpas' abilities. ------ Til Eulenspiegel: til_e@hotmail.com I once had a witty quote; now I have a job. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jay Dugger [dugger@vss.fsi.com] Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications Sunday, 26 August 2001 Hello all, Back on the list at last! Thank you, Shane. See comments below... [snip] > EMAIL COMMUNICATIONS > Email is the primary means of communications between agents and friendlies > in Delta Green. When an agent needs to contact agents outside their cell, > they send an email with the code name of that agent in the address of the Reggie sent his last missive via a PGP-encrypted method. I'd assume, for reasons below, that MJ-12 can read PGP-based cyphertext. In my own game, PGP-based communication would only see use for contacting friendlies. After all, if the bad guys can read it, then take advantage. The friendlies are sacrificial lambs, remember? If they are busy (and unsuccessfully) hiding, then they must have something worth hiding. > message. The email is routed through multiple anonymous computer servers > and automatically encrypted with PGP, which is currently unbreakable > against known human methods (although this may soon change after recent > advances in quantum computing). A PGP key is required to be kept on the I think that MJ-12 long ago had the ability to break PGP with its various Crystal Matrix AIs. They might well have better things to do with those machines, however. > closely-guarded secret of A-Cell and no one agent or friendly knows the > locations of all the servers. This means that the system can still operate > even if some of the servers are compromised. So how much technical support does this require? I think that DG rather has either co-opted portions of official government message traffic or it has a few valuable friendlies that run this in their off-time. It would be interesting if these people weren't DG-Friendlies, but instead contractors, criminals, or false-flagged operatives. ("Help liberate data! Join the Info-Socialist cadres! Help us maintain absolutely secure communications!) From Anders Sandberg's "InfoWar" site comes this idea for server hosting. Shamelessly-cut-and-pasted... "...it is quite possible to place "floating servers" on international water, keeping in touch through satellite networks. Usually they simply consist of a friendly captain who donates a bit of the satellite bandwidth of his ship to set up a temporary SubNet node when he leaves national water. Since no crime can be proven, and it is quite trivial to make the node vanish when needed, this is a safe way to provide SubNet computing power and earn IOUs [cash] for the captain." Scenarios using this idea are trivial and left as an exercise for the student. ;-) > > PHONE COMMUNICATIONS [snip] That's all well and good, no comments. > MAIL COMMUNICATIONS [snip] Also fine, IMO. > WEB COMMUNICATIONS > Most of the web servers hosting the Delta Green network used to be [snip] It seems to me, with a little programming, that such a steganographic/encrypted system could be done IRL. On second thought, the thrill of seeing a DGML project finish has obviously affected my mind. I'll get on it, you bet. Just let me finish my Tesla posts and my Scriabin post and ... I recently read somewhere (Slashdot or Extropians-mailing list) that a technique for detecting steganographic modifications had been developed. It found a number of modified images on eBay, of all places. I'll look for the link when I have a chance. Using file formats other than images (such as "mp4") doesn't seem to offer any advantages. Images tend to have moderate size and enough redundant data so as to offer enough less-significant bits for a decent hiding space. Audio formats tend to have higher compression IIRC. This means fewer low-order bits for hiding space and those bits more strongly affect the perceived output of the file. That said, you might try making a noisy recording of speech, converting it to mp#, and then steganographically hiding your message in that. If that works, then posting the file to MP3.com as the work of an amateur musician makes it available on a faster and more stable distribution point than Napster or its clones. [snip] > DELTA GREEN-Enabled Notebook Computer [snip] I really don't see any point in DG issuing laptops. That seems like much to big a risk, esp. when above Gil mentions little special software is needed. YMMV. Til Eulenspiegel: til_e@hotmail.com I once had a witty quote; now I have a job. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/