From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: (SPOILERS) Re: [DG] Re: Quantum Computing & Crypto At 07:30 PM 8/28/2001 +0100, Andy Robertson wrote: >Longlasting species like the Mi-Go have evolved to be unable to enter these >areas of knowledge. They simply **can't** address these areas, because >their evolution forbids it. Or perhaps, at some point in their development, whatever species the Mi-Go were came into contact with the Mythos, recognized the danger, and changed their own wiring to protect themselves against the Mythos (the lack of memory would be a distinct feature of this). Enter the Mi-Go. >But they still want to research these areas. Yup. If for nothing else, they may not know better. The protection of lost memory keeps them from remembering the Mythos, both its taint but also as a danger to be avoided. Or perhaps there is something programmed in the Mi-Go to reach out for the Mythos and that is even what this "intuition" is. I mean, if quantum computing can replicate intuition (and from the mathematics, that's what it seems to be doing) and that process is a gate/connection/link with the Mythotic domains (ie. the atom existing in two "universes") and the heart of human consciousness is this intuition, then the process going on in each of our brains is as much a Hole as quantum computing is. >IMHO I don't think quantum computing and that "special" thing in humanity >are related in any way. I think they are completely different. Why? >Mmmmm. If I was really pressed, I'd say that here you are falling into the >error of >conflating two unknowns and making one stand as an explanation for the >other. But I agree we don't know. Okay, let me just explain where is this all leading... SPOILERS FOR BEYOND THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS S P O I L E R S P A C E Remember At The Mountains of Madness, and the odd little implication that human beings were created by the Elder Things as food or a joke. Now there is Beyond the Mountains of Madness, with human neural tissue used as part of the God-Trap that is keeping that most awesome of Mythos beings, the Unnamed God, trapped in Antarctica. But not entirely trapped, because the influence of the Unnamed God is still strong enough to pervade our society. There is the possibility that every religious belief is fundamentally based on an ingrained human yearning to be one with the Unnamed God (to get your head stuck in a wall to feed its prison). At the basis of that yearning is what makes human neural tissue (for some reason) so useful as food for the God-Trap: a mind that is "epistemically diploid", "has two distinct aspects- a rational and irrational side", "that allows humans to make guesses that do not fit a logical extrapolation from their current theoretical models", that allows them to "think intuitively". It is this aspect that makes us so appealing to Mythotic beings (as food), that opens up mankind to the dangers of the Mythos, these "Holes" like the Vibe. It is also what seperates us from the Mi-Go and what they want so desperately to achieve. Why? Perhaps because they do want use us to explore these "Holes", but more importantly because that intuition was once a facility of the species that was the Mi-Go until they stripped it away from themselves to escape the destruction of their species during the End Times. And perhaps it is because there is still something buried deep in the Mi-Go consciousness that craves a return to that level of consciousness, not because they need it to ascend to Godhood (although that is what they believe), but because it will return them to their original state, to play the role they were destined to play, created to do. To be food for the God-Trap. The Mi-Go were us, and we will become the Mi-Go. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:56 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Communications > > To turn to the practical side, I suspect the best thing, as has been > > suggested, is to use code phrases with no obvious meaning, or learn > > Sanskrit. > >Navajo. Speaking of which... there's a movie due to come out this Fall called "windtalkers," which concerns navajo codetalkers in the South Pacific. Nicholas Cage is in it as a man assigned to a code talker. If they're about to be captured by the Japanese, he has to kill the code talker to keep him from falling into the enemy's hands... Sounds interesting! J. Edward -- CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CTHULHU -- Dubai, United Arab Emirates /-----------/---\-----------\ ------------|O O|------------ ------------\VAV/------------ -------------I I------------- "and who knows what depths lay in limitless sand; or what horrors are leashed by a great ebon hand?" - Ialdaloboth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ring and Max Castle Greetings. Jay wrote.... > > > Of course, I can't read a word of Japanese. > > > > > Davide? Dave? Care to adopt a translation project? Show me the money. I'll use them to pay further lessons (let's say ten years), then I'll think about it ;> Dave is of a like mind >OK, I'll quit my part-time jobs and devote myself to studying Japanese for 4 >hours a day, and I'll be ready to start translating major works in, oh, I'd >guess 6 or 7 years. :-) See - advantages of living in the actual country. >As somebody who's already >polylingual, I'm sure Davide would learn faster and be ready earlier. Ah! Again this polylingual thing! Apart from the image of a Davide Mana with a mouth full of tentacle-like tongues (san check, please), I think Dave makes too much of it. On the other hand, being Italian, I do have the innate ability (and the cheek) to just go and try improvising something in just any language - you talk real loud in Italian, truncate every third word and wave your hands around. It often works just fine. >ObDG: The difficulty of learning to read and write Japanese touches on the >Communications thread. Someone mentioned earlier using another language, one >with more letters, to make an encryption harder to break. Well, Japanese >uses the English alphabet, plus two syllabaries of 46 characters each (more, >depending on how you count them), plus 2000 (!) basic kanji, plus a whole >lot more kanji that don't see everyday use. The good thing with Japanese is, you can make up your own kanji and hide them in the general text. Someone that's not really a hot shot at Japanese (I discovered the Japanese themselves often admit not knowing the meaning of certain kanji) might just miss them. A lot of those mumblings from translators "Hmmm, that's an old honorific form.... it has no meaning really...." is the guys not getting the secret message. Works even better with Chinese. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Unemployed translator - among other things Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 5:14 AM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] Silbury Hill http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1511000/1511448.stm Silbury Hill is a stone-age conical mound near Avebury (and associated stone circle. The village is actually _inside_ the circle). Now, most people argue whether it was a stone age religious monument, or a stone age rubbish tip. However, some people are claiming it's a power station for UFO's. Great for a PICSES campaign I thought... Jon -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:19 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: (SPOILERS) Re: [DG] Re: Quantum Computing & Crypto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" > >But they still want to research these areas. > > Yup. If for nothing else, they may not know better. The protection of > lost memory keeps them from remembering the Mythos, both its taint but also > as a danger to be avoided. Excellent point > >IMHO I don't think quantum computing and that "special" thing in humanity > >are related in any way. I think they are completely different. > > Why? I wouldn't say "I can prove it isn't". But consider cryptography and the example, recently given, of the use of rare human languages to transmit secure information, the Navaho speakers in WWII. Mechanical language translation is extremely difficult, even if both languages are understood. And no "quantum computer" can decode a language without something like a Rosetta Stone. I once theorised that some of the GOO keep enslaved human minds to generate completely new languages "on the fly", for the GOO to use when they want to talk to each other secretly. Each such occurence would require the birth/cloning of a new human brain and some sort of simulated "upbringing", complete with a rich set of semenes for the mind to build the language out of. I don't know what the subjective experience of these slave-minds might be like. Is the generation and creation of languages a "special" human ability, one of the things the Mi-Go are investigating? Possibly. But you see, I don't think it has much to do *directly* with QC. However, I don't think I would want to make this a major point. > > SPOILERS FOR BEYOND THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS > > S > P > O > I > L > E > R > S > P > A > C > E > It is also what seperates us from the Mi-Go and what they want so > desperately to achieve. Why? Perhaps because they do want use us to > explore these "Holes", but more importantly because that intuition was once > a facility of the species that was the Mi-Go until they stripped it away > from themselves to escape the destruction of their species during the End > Times. Right. All I can say is that this seems very sound. Speculation, of course, but comprehending the plans of the Mi-Go is perhaps our best foothold to a higher survivability. I suggest the argument about the exact role of QC in this context is a detail that can await clarification. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@oceanfree.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:55 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; Jay Dugger Subject: Re: [DG] Ring and Max Castle > ObDG, OT: what effect would a Mythos-influenced text have on translation >software such as Babelfish? Feed a copy of KiY to it, and what would happen? >A spectacular crash like the stock-market collapse in _Pi_? A slow, >metamorphasis of cyberspace into a Carcosan realm? Strange emails from >unknown, and initially untraceable source, gradually introducing the reader >into a mailing list devoted to the occult, the conspiratorial, and the >self-referential? I think Yog-Sothoth outweighs the High Bed-Wetter. ANd Yog-Sothoth (probably) is Cyberspace. Hence, itll stay as insane as Yoggy likes. Visit http://www.oceanfree.net to get your free e-mail account and use our unique Irish Internet directory _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of g m [sneezythesquid@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:13 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] The Fate book Hi all! I have a bit of a quandry. I already had a copy of DGEO:The Fate book, and what shold come to me from a friend when he went to GenCon? A new copy of it. It's in mint condition, and I really don't need it. (There's only so much Alzis a mind can take. =]) I was going to put it up on Ebay, but then I remembered my fellow DGML agents. If anyone is interested, please Email me directly. All I'm asking is for is cover price and shipping cost. OBDG: What if someone found a notebook of one of the Fate people, and either "glove-cleaned" or tried to auction it off? Is it real or is it Memorex? Sneezy the Squid __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Schreier [schreierj@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:23 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] In Nomine I have recently been thinking of a game run in a slightly modified DG universe - have any of you played or read "In Nomine"? It is a Steven Jackson game based on the battle between heaven and earth ... there are spirits (such as the polytheistic pantheons - greek, roman, etc...) with great power ... but they are not really focused on .... I was going to have the cthulhu mythos be similar spirits ... they would still be very powerful and would play more of a major role in the universe than the actual In Nomine universe has spirits playing .... Some of the DG opponents be created by various diabolic groups (particularly MJ-12) .... Also, I was going to have Laurence and Michael as the force behind the creation of Delta Green ... Any thoughts? Thanks, Jeff __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of REFLECTING SKIN [reflectingskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:38 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Fate book - DEAD FLAG BLUES PLAYERS DO NOT READ! mmmm...The Fate... While I have friends who view them as the superfriends equivalent of "The Legion of Doom" or consider them overly-cinematic as presented, I don't really know anyone who doesn't harbor a deep soft spot for The Fate. -----> DEAD FLAG BLUES PLAYERS DO NOT READ <-------- In fact, their the basis of the metaplot of my DG campaign, they are incredibly useful as the Glue of a series of plots. In My personal Universe, Cho Chou Tsu has become a Lord (or Lady) of The Fate, after sucessfully contacting Alzis to dispose of that nasty little Hound of Tindalos. ALzis, dubbing her "The Lord of Time" (he's always got a sense of humor about those names) decides to bring her into 'the family' as it were. BAM, Instant infighting as the Tong Shuggoron try to muscle in on the traditional Tongs/Organized Crime centers in NYC. Get into nasty fights with the Organitskaya and the Skoptsi (more on that in another post) and generally cause Havoc and mayhem. I mean what more could you ask for if you have an Occult Superstar criminal empire than an Evil Badass (read her STATS!) Sorceress with an International shipping empire with ties to Covert Operations. It was too good to pass up. -Reflecting Skin- "How now Brown Cow I'm down with the Mau Mau, Clown downtown tried to put us in the dog pound, like H. Rap Brown with the situation,(Won't get no callouses),cause I'm spittin dialectical analysis. So how is this, we never had no Funk until you found out that I turned into a revolutionary, Punk!" - The Coup, Genocide & Juice _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:01 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Intra-brain competition and trepanation "Virtual injury catches the brain's halves competing for attention." http://www.nature.com/nsu/010830/010830-5.html The gist of this article is that when half of the brain is numbed, the other half becomes better at what it does. Basically, it says that each part of the brain is competing with other parts for attention and when the need for competition is removed that performance increases. Interesting. So what if a part of the brain is really good at perceiving mythos-related phenomenon (perhaps hypergeometrical space, or whatever), but that part of the brain spends so much energy competing with the rest of the brain that most people never get to use it? Basically, it has lost the competition. If such a thing exists, certain types of brain injuries would improve its performance. Enter trepanation. Trepanation, as many of you no doubt already know, is the art of drilling a hole into one's head under the theory that the increased cranial blood capacity will allow the brain to get more blood and therefore function better causing a state of bliss and euphoria. Trepanation has been practiced ever since the stone age when it was done with a sharpened flint spike instead of an electric hand drill. But what if the drill (or sharp piece of flint) accidentally goes too deep? At the very least you've got a brain injury, and at the very most you're dead. Thousands and thousands of people have been trepanated since the dawn of man. Surely many of them missed the mark. Of all the injuries that have been caused this way, perhaps a few managed to cut down the competition for the mythos module thereby activating it and making them privy to the secrets of the universe. And perhaps those people so enlightened have documented their trepanation and attempted to recreate the accident for others. And perhaps they've sometimes been successful. It's hard to think of the desire for trepanation as anything but insane. Perhaps an insanity related to apotemnophilia - the desire to undergo amputations. So if a document purports to give you the secrets of the universe if you'll just drill a hole in your head, that sounds like a tome-related SAN loss. And if it's true, then a tome-related mythos gain. Plus, with the mythos awareness, you'll probably be better able to cast spells. In fact the book would probably include a few for your use. Here we have a new tome: Trepanation And You: How to See the Spaces In Between A how-to guide for activating the mythos module by: unknown (English (translated from ancient Sumerian), +8 Cthulhu Mythos, -1D12 sanity, x1 spell multiplier, study time: 52 hours) Publishing History: Unknown Spells: 1D4 of the Keeper's choice The original cuneiform tablet from ancient Sumeria is now owned by Dutchman Bart Hughes, the guru of modern day trepanation. He had it translated by a historian who went mad and tried the procedure on himself and died from complications. Bart Hughes took the historian's notes and used them to successfully perform the procedure (this time successfully) on himself. He has kept them a secret and now uses the procedure to initiate others into his secret group of occultists. The first such initiate was Pete Halvorson who now directs the International Trepanation Advocacy Group (ITAG). (Just an RL side note for those interested: Bart and Pete are real folks and ITAG is a real organization run by Pete. All occult references are from me.) Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of PoetryandtheGods@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:30 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Silbury Hill I saw that same article last night. Seems someone damaged the hill, and raised the furor of archeaologists. Maybe the damage wasn't accidental, someone was trying to cover something up. Or perhaps, the real reason the archeaologists are angry is because they are trying to hide something inside the hill. Bruce _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:31 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] RE:DG Communications (cypherfondling) Quantum encryption is a scheme that will work well, but it's still very much point-to-point. Unless you criss-cross the world with a bunch of very special fibers or lasers and laser sensors, you're not going to be able to send a message to a random agent in the field. My point about quantum computers was that they will be able to crack our contemporary coding schemes. It's for this reason, in fact IIRC, that people started working on quantum encryption. The easiest way for this to work is for the Q-Computer to dictionary hack the whole message with every dictionary at it's disposal. At the end of the process, the vast majority of it's results will be gibberish. Some of it will coincidentally contain words amongst gibberish that have nothing to do with the messages - just a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters and one of them coming across the word "Alphonse". There may even be one or two that seem to make a sort of sense, and one that makes perfect sense. The Q-Computer hands the results over that contain the largest number of real words and let the humans decide which one is real. With a powerful enough (okay, really really freaking powerful) Q-Computer, this could be done in real time making the time arguments invalid. And the idea about encryption of "My bunny is dead" resulting in the same cyphertext as "Alphonse is dead" due to differing one time pads isn't really valid because for the message to be verifiable it needs to include some kind of checksum. That checksum takes the entire cyphertext into account which means that the checksum for "my bunny is dead" and "alphonse is dead" are going to be different no matter what one time pad you use. If you get rid of the checksum, then you allow errors to creep into the transmission which can be catastrophic and result in the bombing of the wrong coordinates. So, the enemy intercepts and reads your transmission at the same time as the intended recipient. One of the translations, via cosmic coincidence, happens to be my mother's recipe for chocolate chip cookies and the other details plans for an invasion tomorrow night. As a Q-Computer I might not know which is more important. As a human, I'll have my guys ready for you and they'll be well-fed on cookies by the time you arrive. And with that, I'll exit the cypherfondling thread 'cuz I think it's gone off the deep end long ago. Gil's idea about the rules of engagement forcing the need for weak encryption pretty much fixed the universe for me. :) Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:41 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: RE: [DG] Ring and Max Castle [reposting here after discovering that I accidentally replied offlist instead of on...] >ObDG, OT: what effect would a Mythos-influenced text have on >translation software such as Babelfish? Feed a copy of KiY to it, >and what would happen? I had a similar thought last night while re-reading the MJ-12 section of the Delta Green sourcebook, not translating particularly, but transmitting... M I N O R S P O I L E R To refresh and remind: When Dr. Stephen Courtis of SSG2 within MJ-12 inscribed a large antigravity sigil on a wooden overhang, in addition to accidentally killing himself, he also created that wiz-bang gravity field generator that could bring down a radiosonde fifteen miles aboveground. Later, researchers were unable to replicate the sigil presumably because they were making the marks in the wrong order. But what if Dr. Courtis had thought to video tape his experiment? He would have still died, of course, but it might have been oh-so-much more entertaining. Imagine it. His accident is discovered, and a nearby camera obviously caught what happened on film. So a bunch of other scientists crowd around a television to watch the tape. And there, on the screen, the sigil is reproduced with the marks appearing on the video in the right sequence.... And a bunch of scientists are hurled through a few walls until they get squished against a concrete wall around the perimeter of the lab - all by a gravity field emanating from the television. But it doesn't end there. Oh no no no! Somebody else figures out what happened and makes a few copies of the tape and sends them as anonymous gifts to various world leaders, and maybe to the brat kid next door who keyed his car the other day. Oh the fun we could have! (Imagine the wizbang fun of showing the film in an IMAX theatre where the screen is three stories tall! The transition from a one inch sigil to a fourteen inch sigil caused a 190G increase in the field. What would a three story tall sigil do? Rip a hole in the fabric of space and let things in from over yonder? Endless fun.) Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:43 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: RE: [DG] Encryption fondling: DG Communications [Once again, reposting after discovering I accidentally replied offlist...] Mr. Rayburn wrote: >If you zoom in deep enough (say the >detail of one side of a bolt face) >you see a squiggle... zoom in on >that,and there is the message. When I was taking an architectural CAD class in high school I started a wonderful student tradition. Our teacher's name was Mr. Williams. Every house drawn by a majority of the students in my class and the following year's class had one thing in common: You could zoom far, far, far, far,far (and even farther!) into the toilet bowl of the master bathroom and find the message "Mr. Williams is a shit." It was so far in that it didn't even appear as a pixel until you had the toilet bowl taking up an area about ten times larger than the screen. Ah. The joys of youth. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:58 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] In Nomine In message <20010829142329.98156.qmail@web14206.mail.yahoo.com>, Jeff Schreier writes >I have recently been thinking of a game run in a >slightly modified DG universe - have any of you played >or read "In Nomine"? > Yep. Had great fun with that game. My current angelic campaign is frozen (due to lack of players at present) on the 5th Trumpet of Armageddon. :) >It is a Steven Jackson game based on the battle >between heaven and earth ... there are spirits (such >as the polytheistic pantheons - greek, roman, etc...) >with great power ... but they are not really focused >on .... > >I was going to have the cthulhu mythos be similar >spirits ... they would still be very powerful and >would play more of a major role in the universe than >the actual In Nomine universe has spirits playing .... I don't know how much of the game you have seen but one GM option is that God Himself is nothing but a beefed up Ethereal Spirit. He simply 'made good' and became so powerful through His worshippers that He was able to change the very fabric of the cosmos to His Will. >Some of the DG opponents be created by various >diabolic groups (particularly MJ-12) I recommend the Liber Servitorum (Rogues Gallery of NPCs) You should find the write-ups of The Greys, The Benevolent Space Brothers, Ithran (who was my own contribution to the book) and L'Mellner (a GOO!) of interest to you. >.... Also, I was >going to have Laurence and Michael as the force behind >the creation of Delta Green ... > Yep. Absolutely. Maybe Litheroy also, as he would be an opponent of MJ- 12. You would have to run the game very dark though. IN as is, is fairly tongue-in-cheek. You could have God as either an Ethereal or a GOO (Yog- Sothoth?) but you'd have to re-write the rational behind the AA's and the whole of Heaven as it stands. The AA's (ArchAngels) are generally patrons of and benevolent toward mankind. They would work better run like the Archons of Kult - alien, and not giving two hoots. So you could say that the AAs/Angels are Avatars of Yahweh (Yog-Sothoth) for example, or perhaps an extra-dimensional race of beings worshipping him. They might be interested in mankind because they know that humanity is somehow inexplicably linked to The Creator and the Endtimes. Don't forget that some of the more militant AAs are trying to bring about the Endtimes early. ;) Of course, this does leave you with interesting options for the demons. 1) They too could be avatars 2) They could be a slave race of the Angels With the latter you could turn the tables and possibly use the demons as somewhat shaky allies (a dangerous though entertaining proposition) if you wanted. > >Any thoughts? > >Thanks, >Jeff -- Julian Breen _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:21 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ring and Max Castle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" > Ah! > Again this polylingual thing! > Apart from the image of a Davide Mana with a mouth full of tentacle-like > tongues (san check, please), I think Dave makes too much of it. > On the other hand, being Italian, I do have the innate ability (and the > cheek) to just go and try improvising something in just any language - you > talk real loud in Italian, truncate every third word and wave your hands > around. > It often works just fine. Yes, throughout my world travels I discovered that if you speak to those foreigners LOUDLY and S-L-O-W-L-Y you can always either make yourself understood or frighten them into giving you what you are pointing at. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 2:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Intra-brain competition and trepanation On a computer, far, far away, Gatten, Marshall wrote: > "Virtual injury catches the brain's halves competing for attention." > http://www.nature.com/nsu/010830/010830-5.html This is vaguely reminiscent of the Corpus Callosum experiment. I could go into detail here, but a good treatment of it is here: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/split.html The bizarrest thing I have heard off to do with this is to do with a man who had his corpus callosum severed as a help with his severe epilepsy (in some cases, the attack can start in one hemisphere, and then migrate to the other - cutting the corpus callosum can mitigate this). The man was once found beating hos wife with one hand, and defending her with the other. Paging Dr. Strangelove. Paging Dr. Strangelove. Jon -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 4:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] OT: Loudness and language comprehension > > On the other hand, being Italian, I do have the innate ability (and the > > cheek) to just go and try improvising something in just any language - you > > talk real loud in Italian, truncate every third word and wave your hands > > around. > > It often works just fine. > > Yes, throughout my world travels I discovered that if you speak to those > foreigners LOUDLY and S-L-O-W-L-Y you can always either make yourself > understood or frighten them into giving you what you are pointing at. Jackie Chan western with that blonde guy.. uh, Shanghai Noon. One Ind.. er, Native American says to the other (with subtitles, of course), "He thinks by repeating himself louder and slower we'll suddenly understand him." The other responds, "Give him some of the peace pipe to shut him up." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Marc J Cassell [nekonube2k@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] RE:DG Communications (cypherfondling) On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:30:38 -0700 "Gatten, Marshall" writes: > My point about quantum computers was that they will be able to crack > our > contemporary coding schemes. It's for this reason, in fact IIRC, > that people > started working on quantum encryption. The easiest way for this to > work is > for the Q-Computer to dictionary hack the whole message with every > dictionary at it's disposal. At the end of the process, the vast > majority of > it's results will be gibberish. Some of it will coincidentally > contain words > amongst gibberish that have nothing to do with the messages - just a > million > monkeys banging on a million typewriters and one of them coming > across the > word "Alphonse". Actually it is worse than that, the concept of the quantum states in the computer can basically allow it to try every single possibility in a very short amount of time. Not just millions of monkeys but an almost infinite amount. > > And the idea about encryption of "My bunny is dead" resulting in the > same > cyphertext as "Alphonse is dead" due to differing one time pads > isn't really > valid because for the message to be verifiable it needs to include > some kind > of checksum. That checksum takes the entire cyphertext into account > which > means that the checksum for "my bunny is dead" and "alphonse is > dead" are > going to be different no matter what one time pad you use. If you > get rid of > the checksum, then you allow errors to creep into the transmission > which can > be catastrophic and result in the bombing of the wrong coordinates. True screwing with the checksums can be problematic, but the risk involved for the increased security would be worth it assuming that you feared these type of decryption attempts. There is no reason that with a cypher the checksum has to be in the same place. Under Cypher A if the first letter of the matrix is A-E let the length be 7, if it is F-L it could be 12. Now throw in Cypher B where A-C is 3, and keep going. By allowing the cypher to move the checksums based on various parts of the message you can keep them guessing. Complex, quite but is it worth the risk? Guess that is for A-Cell to decide. The point is that if you give them pieces and let them wonder about the cypher you can up the chances of letting them not know who is dead many times over. Sure they can figure it out but if you do it right NRO-Delta wont make it for the funeral. > > So, the enemy intercepts and reads your transmission at the same > time as the > intended recipient. One of the translations, via cosmic coincidence, > happens > to be my mother's recipe for chocolate chip cookies and the other > details > plans for an invasion tomorrow night. As a Q-Computer I might not > know which > is more important. As a human, I'll have my guys ready for you and > they'll > be well-fed on cookies by the time you arrive. Two choices and they can act on both. 100 choices it gets hard to cover all the bases. 10,000 choices you got a needle in a haystack that the computer can't help the humans find. > > And with that, I'll exit the cypherfondling thread 'cuz I think it's > gone > off the deep end long ago. Gil's idea about the rules of engagement > forcing > the need for weak encryption pretty much fixed the universe for me. > :) > > Marshall True I say we kill this cause I bet the list is bored to tears. Iceweb ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] In Nomine > I have recently been thinking of a game run in a > slightly modified DG universe - have any of you played > or read "In Nomine"? Read everything for it, my wife runs the game. > I was going to have the cthulhu mythos be similar > spirits ... they would still be very powerful and > would play more of a major role in the universe than > the actual In Nomine universe has spirits playing .... > Some of the DG opponents be created by various > diabolic groups (particularly MJ-12) .... Also, I was > going to have Laurence and Michael as the force behind > the creation of Delta Green ... I would suggest that Laurence is not so good an idea as he would probably have a bit of a problem with the groups illegal nature. Gabriel might not be a bad idea, as would David and Litheroy. Heck... Yves would have a major, major reason for backing the group. The Marches are the Dreamlands and that has some great possibilities with a KiY campaign... I would suggest that the MJ12/demon connection would be too easy. Leave the MI-GO as aliens. I had a rather well fleshed out campaign that I never ran that was a mix of In Nomine, Armageddon, and Delta Green. Basically the remnants of Heaven and Hell link back up (sort of mostly ), along with various humans as the Endtimes start. It never got off the ground as my wife and I decided that the IN 'setting' was hers to run and I wouldn't poach... Of course it does mean I get to *play*!!! David _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:31 AM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] A bit of fore-planning? http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/sci_tech/highlights/010828_himalayan.shtml Himalayan earthquake forecast. Is somebody laying the groundwork for a nice cover-up for an operation against those wacky flying mushrooms? Jon -- Jonathan Ward || School of Engineering || Aston University || j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Craft [timothycraft@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:31 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Newbie Question Hello! I am new to the world of Delta Green (and obviously, this list). Is it appropriate for me to ask CoC rules questions here? I'm starting a new DG campaign in two weeks, and I want to be prepared...! Tim C. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Stango [jstanley@echoman.com] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:52 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Newbie Question Welcome to the list Tim. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andi Marment [andi.marment@voyage.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:59 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Another daft question from the semi newbie Hi all, right first off thanks for all the Phat ideas that have been buzzing round the DGML, as i think i might have a problem witht eh group i am gonna be runing for, basically how do i get the mix right, as i have only ever really run the old gaslight adventures and they are all used to playing cyberpunk and other generally action orientated games, now as i understand it dg is more action than the old 12880's gaslight but i dont want it to turn into a zombie holocaust genre ideas? Pandindantilus -------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee and access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Voyager Software. If you are not the intended recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error please notify Voyager Software by sending an email to mail@voyage.co.uk _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bomias1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:40 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Silbury Hill In a message dated 8/29/01 6:17:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wardjr@aston.ac.uk writes: << Silbury Hill is a stone-age conical mound near Avebury (and associated stone circle. The village is actually _inside_ the circle). Now, most people argue whether it was a stone age religious monument, or a stone age rubbish tip. However, some people are claiming it's a power station for UFO's. Great for a PICSES campaign I thought... >> Silbury Hill and Avebury is a prominent locale in one of the scenarios in Dark Designs published in the mid 90's for CoC Gaslight (Victorian Era Cthulhu). I ran it a long time ago and recall it as being pretty well recieved by my players. The Thug Whisperer "Back off man! I'm a scientist." ------ Peter Venkman _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:05 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Another daft question from the semi newbie > basically how do i get the mix right, as i have only ever really > run the old > gaslight adventures and they are all used to playing cyberpunk and other > generally action orientated games, now as i understand it dg is > more action > than the old 12880's gaslight but i dont want it to turn into a zombie > holocaust genre > ideas? I can't believe that I'm actually going to say this... Watch the X-Files or find copies of Millennium (By Carter). Then watch the various movies that have been suggested here on the list, (I have to imagine that you can find this in the Ice cave). More generally, Rather like old CoC the key is to remember that the bad guys *always* have a bigger stick, there is an inherent 'squickiness' in the way many people seem to run DG, and the paranoia level is ratcheted up to eleven. This should give everyone the right ideas. David _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Philip_Ward@yestelevision.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:39 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Another daft question from the semi newbie Yet-Another-Dave (tm) wrote: > Watch the X-Files or find copies of Millennium (By Carter). Then watch the > various movies that have been suggested here on the list, (I have to imagine > that you can find this in the Ice cave). > > More generally, > > Rather like old CoC the key is to remember that the bad guys *always* have a > bigger stick, there is an inherent 'squickiness' in the way many people seem > to run DG, and the paranoia level is ratcheted up to eleven. Some definitions may be in order here: Ice Cave: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm Squick: http://www.delta-green.com/humor/squick.htm Makes me giggle with insane delight every time I look at it :) As to the other newbie question about CofC rules, I would suggest posting the question and any answers being taken straight to private mail to avoid a) flames b) lowering the S-to-N ratio (even more), and c) COOF's Cheers, Phil ********************************************************************** This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or privileged information and should not be read, copied or otherwise used or disseminated by any unauthorised person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Yes Television (Europe) Ltd . If you are not the named recipient, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail from your system. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eduardo H. S. [eduardoh@vant.com.br] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Newbie Hi, I´m Eduardo and I am from Brazil! Sorry for my written english, happilly I can understand everything you guys write, but not always you wil understand what I write, so, please TRY to. I have already ordered my copy od DG at amazon, but a haven´t received it yet. But, I have some questions: 1) What movies should I whatch tho get the feeling of DG campaigns ( except for X-files )? 2) What books to read? 3) Does Tom Clancy´s book have something in common with DG universe? Thank you All Eduardo From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Stango [jstanley@echoman.com] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:30 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Newbie >>2) What books to read? You should order Alien Intellignence and Rules of Engagement, both by Pagan..... From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Craft [timothycraft@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Another DG Newbie question My first two questions about DG, actually. 1) I'm doing my best to wean my players off of the 3E teat, but I realize it will take some time. Some of them, when thinking of characters for the upcoming DG game, have asked about character generation. They seem somewhat taken aback by actually *** ROLLING *** for stats (a novel concept, I know) - so are they any characteristic point buy systems out there? I could just quash their requests and hand them 3d6, but I'd like to see what opinions on the list are. 2) I'm a big fan of the Necroscope series (of which I'm sure has been talked about greatly here). I would very much like to use the Esper abilities from Countdown, with my own modifications of course lowering the 'power' level of the abilities, and expanding them). Has anyone done that as well, and how has it turned out...? That's all for now. End transmission. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Mr. Zero [mrzero@twilite.org] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Newbie On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Eduardo H. S. wrote: } I have already ordered my copy od DG at amazon, but a haven´t received it yet. Don't forget Countdown. :) } 1) What movies should I whatch tho get the feeling of DG campaigns ( } except for X-files )? Twin Peaks (the TV series) The Abyss Videodrome Pi The Ninth Gate Pitch Black } 2) What books to read? The Rules of Engagement (yay Rev) Alien Intelligence The Club Dumas Delta Green Delta Green: Countdown Focaults Pendulum Lovecraft, all of it. } 3) Does Tom Clancy´s book have something in common with DG universe? ???? Clancy wrote a book about Delta Green? sean -- mrzero@twilite.org Homepage: http://www.twilite.org/~mrzero ICQ: 121817936 DG-DarkTide: http://brsp.net/~mrzero "Scotch, straight up, no xeno-linguistic virus. Please." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:44 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Double Newbie Invasion! (was Re: Newbie) We've got a whole crop of newbies coming in lately...almost harvest time, too. Heh, heh. From: Eduardo H. S. >>>Hi, I´m Eduardo and I am from Brazil!<<< Welcome. Don't worry about the quality of your English--it's fine, and easier to understand than that of some native speakers here. ;-) As for your questions, you're in luck. The first two are often-discussed themes which are archived for easy reference. >>>1) What movies should I whatch tho get the feeling of DG campaigns ( except for X-files )?<<< http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/dgfilms.htm >>>2) What books to read? <<< http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/dgbklist.htm And you'll find tons of other useful stuff to wander through at the Ice Cave, with the usual appreciative noises voiced in the direction of Davide Mana. http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm >>>3) Does Tom Clancy´s book have something in common with DG universe?<<< Tom Clancy learned everything he knows from Alphonse. No, seriously, I have found some inspiration from Clancy's _Rainbow Six_, and if you're running a techno-thriller style game (yes, I'm looking at YOU, Agent Layne), you could do worse than read Tom Clancy (and Clive Cussler). However, there's no direct connection, as far as I know. And from another newcomer: From: "Andi Marment" > basically how do i get the mix right, as i have only ever really run the old > gaslight adventures and they are all used to playing cyberpunk and other > generally action orientated games, now as i understand it dg is more action > than the old 12880's gaslight but i dont want it to turn into a zombie > holocaust genre Phil and David already made some good suggestions--the above Books and Movies pages in the Ice Cave should help, too. One thing, though--The idea that DG means "CoC with Tons o' Guns" is a common one, but a misperception. (I'm not saying you think so, Andi--but there is a certain element of CoC players who turn their nose up at DG for this reason. Their loss.) It can be, surely, if you want--but only if you want. In my games, I haven't noticed any more shots fired on average than in my standard 1920s and regular-flavor modern-era games. Even less, sometimes--once the players realize that shooting up a Tcho-tcho restaurant in broad daylight will destroy their careers. But there's lots of ways to play the game, and to the people who like to do it Feng Shui style, hey, more power to ya. I'll keep encouraging my players to keep those guns in their holsters as much as possible, though. Two last things to everyone before I crawl off to bed: *If at all possible, turn off the HTML. Some members' software doesn't handle it well, and it can hide viruses. *If the MiB makes flames you, it means he respects you enough that he figures you'll understand it was meant in humor. Take it as a badge of honor and a sign of acceptance. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David A. Farnell [1639556911@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Another DG Newbie question From: "Tim Craft" > My first two questions about DG, actually. Welcome,Tim. > 1) I'm doing my best to wean my players off of the 3E > teat, but I realize it will take some time. Some of > them, when thinking of characters for the upcoming DG > game, have asked about character generation. They > seem somewhat taken aback by actually *** ROLLING *** > for stats (a novel concept, I know) - so are they any > characteristic point buy systems out there? Another Ice Cave link (I'm hanging around the Cave when I should be in bed): http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/dgchagen.htm Also, the latest edition of the CoC rules has a suggestion for a point-based system to buy characteristics and skills. I've used it and was pretty happy with it. If it seems too low-powered (that is, if your players all want to play ex-Marines and you're OK with that), just tweak it upwards until you're happy with it (I did, a little). Or just convert to GURPS: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/dggurps.htm http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/dggurps2.htm > 2) I'm a big fan of the Necroscope series (of which > I'm sure has been talked about greatly here). That's probably in the Cave, too, but my eyes are like poached eggs. I'm hitting the futon. G'night. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Double Newbie Invasion! (was Re: Newbie) > >>>3) Does Tom Clancy´s book have something in > common with DG universe?<<< No, seriously, I have > found some inspiration from Clancy's _Rainbow Six_, > and if you're running a > techno-thriller style game you could > do worse than read Tom Clancy (and Clive Cussler). > However, there's no > direct connection, as far as I know. agreed so far. but please don´t mess up the real world and what clancy writes about it. Clancy has a very biased worldview and a deep lack of understanding anything non us-american, not to mention a disturbing unability to collect openly accesssible information. festus __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/