From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:18 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] tradecraft I'm in! "Anybody interested in a Tradecraft list? I can imagine that such a list might attract some people from outside the DG community who could add valuable info and enjoy sharing what we've got. We might be able to get enough stuff to really make it happen. Any takers? Marshall" _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bomias1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:13 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] A little help In a message dated 9/27/01 11:17:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk writes: << How about: >> Thanks! That's just what I was looking for. In addition to what I listed in my earlier post/request, and for the edification of those who are interested, one of the locales that I sent my agents to was in response to their attempts to track down the "nest" of a homeless man that had been murdered. They were told that he lived in "a car" in a weedy ditch behind the Target store. What they found was overgrown with vines to the point where what it was could not be exactly made out, but they were able to find the rear door. Upon realizing that the interior of the "car" was made of wood, they cleared the vines away. They discovered that it was actually a Victorian-era horsedrawn hearse. There was even a mannequin dressed in a ratty old tux sitting in the driver's seat. But the payoff was when they rummaged through the homeless guys things and found one of those old devices that the Victorians used to look at slides, I can't remember what its called but its basically a Victorian Viewmaster, and a box of slides. The slides depicted snapshots from the guys life from childhood to adulthood, all taken as if they were done without the knowledge of the subject. The last few slides showed him sitting in a library somewhere reading a book with the title "Le Roi Dans Jean", then descending into homelessness, and then his dead body laying in the alley where he had been found just a few days before. The crime lab definitively dates the slides and the camera as no less than 75 years old, probably about 100 years old. My players freaked out. It was beautiful. The Thug Whisperer "Back off Man! I'm a scientist." ------Peter Venkman _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bomias1@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] A little help In a message dated 9/27/01 11:46:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << Are you playing Cthulhu by Gaslight? Because - sorry - I do not see otherwise the reason for this proliferation of Victoriana. Sure, continuity and thematic whatever, yes, but you'll come to a point in which your players will simply nuke anything built before 1901, just to be on the safe side. >> No, it's just that in the Hastur Mythos (again as depicted in Countdown) one of the four main themes that crop up is the Victorian aesthetic. "This is primarily architectural/decorative, and is the aesthetic of the Victorian/Edwardian eras." -Tynes. So this is what I am going for. As far as my players automatically attacking anything built before 1901, I don't think that they have caught on to it yet. It is only one of several other plotlines that are running through my game, along with the Karotechia, MJ-12 and "vacations in sunny Celephais". They have yet to differentiate the pattern of "wierd surreal Victorian shit" in the larger amount of "wierd shit" that happens to them all the time. However, I really liked you ideas about using '50's and '60's architecture and locales. I just hope my players learn to stop chasing after the Carcosan "local color" when it has nothing to do with the investigation at hand. The Thug Whisperer "Back off Man! I'm a scientist." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:35 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: RE: [DG] A little help (Hastur Spoilers? Yeah, I guess if yer picky.) >So I've been working on inserting the Hastur Muthos into >my game. My problem is that I am currently blocked >in my ideas for locales, and locales figure prominently >in the presentation of the Vibe. >So far I have used: Victorian-era Victorian-era > Victorian-era Victorian Victorian-era > a great many Victorian ... I think if I were playing in your game I'd stay away from anything older than me. :) Keep in mind that just because everything in Carcosa is Victorian style doesn't mean that everything it touches here is Victorian, nor does it mean that everything here that is Victorian is touched by Carcosa. For instance, in "Nightfloors" I don't recall the apartment building being particularly Victorian. (I could be wrong here - I've been reading way too much DG stuff recently to keep it all straight.) The key is that the Hastur vibe is strongest where there is entropy, where things begin to just not quite fit right. And there is entropy everywhere. Personally, I like the idea that the frenzied pace of business in the World Trade Centers caused the buildings to be consumed by Carcosa. And those buildings were not what I'd call Victorian. If they were in fact consumed by Carcosa, then going to Carcosa you'd be likely to see a pair of enormous Victorian towers because that's how things manifest there. You can have just about any location feeling the Vibe. Have your players come across the play "The King in Yellow" yet? If not, I'd strongly suggest having them find it in a decidedly non-Victorian place when they get sucked into it. That way they'll be more surprised. I'd also suggest running a few non-Hastur encounters in Victorian settings so that they don't make too strong a connection there. Just my 2¢. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:43 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: RE: [DG] A little help >They discovered that it was actually a Victorian-era horsedrawn >hearse...a mannequin dressed in a ratty old tux sitting in the >driver's seat...one of those old devices that the Victorians >used to look at slides...snapshots from the guys life from >childhood to adulthood, all taken as if they were done without >the knowledge of the subject...his dead body laying in the alley >where he had been found just a few days before...no less than >75 years old... Oh, this is wonderful. I must tell you, I'm going to steal it wholesale. My mother actually has one of those Victorian "viewmasters" complete with a large set of slides. It's called a Stereogram(tm). I'll have to see if she'll trust me with it as a prop. (When I was a kid it was off limits for touching. Hopefully as an adult she'll be a little more understanding. ) Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] tradecraft At 08:55 AM 9/27/2001 -0700, Gatten, Marshall wrote: >Anybody interested in a Tradecraft list? I can imagine that such a list >might attract some people from outside the DG community who could add >valuable info and enjoy sharing what we've got. We might be able to get >enough stuff to really make it happen. Any takers? I had planned to do something like this after DGWW2, but now I just want to finish DGWW2. I think a tradecraft list would be a wonderful idea, and not that difficult to produce. Considering the number of modern-day conspiracy games out there, such a book could be a very good seller, with cross appeal to Conspiracy X, Unknown Armies, White Wolf, several GURPS genres, and so on. From this list alone, there has shown to be a very deep pool of knowledge on tradecraft, so a great deal could be developed just from pillaging the Ice Cave. Attracting those from similar games would only add to that pool, and when all else fails, order some Paladin Press books. The only thing I'd worry about was government scrutiny - the chances for getting raided by the Secret Service a la Steve Jackson Games is much stronger nowadays. Honestly, if folks want a Tradecraft book, your best bet is to get writing it. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft > Let's do the good cop/bad cop thing here. outdated. use the bad cop/ totally uninterested cop method. > We members of the majority go to Delta Gunz players' > houses and shoot > through their windows with sawed-off shotguns, throw > a few molotov > cocktails on their lawn and ask them to rethink > their attitude to the play. how prosaic. why not erect burning elder signs? while wearing silly hoods this might get perfect plausible deniability. > This said, I support the Man in Black's opinion > about a much needed > coverage of tradecraft (being notoriously tortuous, > I'd order entries by > tech level). > What I'd like, thoughg, would be some kind of > document/handbook focusing > not only on the "how to crack a safe", on the technical side, the most useful book i ´ve seen so far ist the out of business milleniums edge operatives manual (already mentioned before). for ww2 and the following areas there is enough material to excerpt samples, imho victorian and 1920s manuals seem to be missing completely. but on the _roleplaying_ side of > safecracking. > This would also avoid the publisher a visit from the > FBI for publishing > terrorist-friendly informations. sure. > (using something they'd hate) gaudily coloured squirt guns filled with ordinary surface water? festus __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The End of the Conspiracy? >>> And someone might come up with the idea of >>> reactivating this organisation, >>> ending its status of an illegal conspiracy. > membership is something they've done before and doing it > again shouldn't be too hard. Once the idea of rebuilding is > approved, start "recruiting". Over the next year or so bring > one cell at a time into official status. (Or one cell member at a time.) No. DG went underground and remains so as a survival imperative. The illegal conspiracy gives the agency far more leeway for... ahem, options. Legal status could have its perks, but so would being an FBI or CIA agent, which may be DG agents' home agency. Someone mentioned the Office of Homeland Security, and this I like (er, in this context). A DG-esq sub-agency within OHS fulfilling the exact same role DG does, and did. However this would be a -the-lights-are-on- type situation, one which A cell should/would avoid?... so. OHS is being set up, subagencies established, someone in the know establishes a DG-esq subagency, and while useful people are appointed/recruited, a good deal of the orginazation will not be DG agents. However, nothing is stopping DG agents whose home agency is the FBI/CIA/et cet from volunteering to help in this bold, patriotic new agency (...). It's Yet Another Alphabet Soup with facilities and resources to tie into DG. Furthermore, if a precedent is established regarding the DG-esq and a national security first amendment suppression, each cell having their own DG-esq member to clean up their messes (and, perhaps, not so messy messes) as a part of their -normal, legal, sanctioned duties- could make life significantly easier. Or, at least, provide an escape hatch when players get out of hand. A new one, that is. =p _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:56 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft - concerns > The only thing I'd worry about was government scrutiny - the chances for > getting raided by the Secret Service a la Steve Jackson Games is much > stronger nowadays. My tyro self is rather unfamiliar with this reference, but, regarding tradecraft, things DG, and government scrutiny, here's a recent reference... on the "Fight Club" movie DVD, one has the option to have audial commentary by some of the folks who made it voice over the normal soundtrack. There is a scene where Tyler Durden mentions household bomb making details, in the first shot, they actually had the complete formula for a potent explosive, or something close enough, blah blah. They had asked a bomb squad to comment, and they were on the money... so they reduce the movie's version to three compounds, as opposed to the twelve, or whatever. Enough that it is true, not enough that it is recreateable. Social responsiblity, or something like that. So. If such a thing is done, as it is for RPG reference, it may be worth one's while to purposefully provide realistic yet useless information. *shrug* _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 1:49 PM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Splinter list: DGTradecraft Okay, I've gone and done it. Now I guess I'm in for it. I've created a list for the discussion of tradecraft with the ultimate goal of creating a tradecraft briefing book for DG players. Anybody interested can subscribe by sending a blank message to: dgtradecraft-subscribe@topica.com If you want to know more about it before subscribing then visit: http://www.topica.com/lists/dgtradecraft I decided to use Topica because of built-in archiving, digesting, and other features. I've run a few lists on it before and have rarely had a complaint. Every post will have unsubscription instructions automatically appended at the bottom along with a small self-serving text-only ad for Topica, but who really cares? I should say up front that I'm not planning on "spear-heading" anything. If anybody wants to really drive this thing to turn it into a book, please feel free. I've started the list just because I'd be very interested in contributing to such a thing and because I see it as a way to learn some cool stuff. I've set the list to appear in the Role-Playing Games category on the public Topica list. Hopefully that will get us a few extra subscribers. I've made the archive viewable by subscribers only in hopes that people who would complain about it's content won't be likely to subscribe. And finally, I made the member list invisible to everybody but the moderator to protect all's you's guy's emails. If you subscribe, give the welcome message a good read and tell me if you think it needs any changes. (Heck, maybe that'll be out first thread.) Be seein' ya. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of CelticHound [celtichound@foobox.net] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] A little help Davide Mana wrote: > Imagine Carcosa slowly seeping into a suburban model neighborhood - ennui > and alienation among houses that all look exactly the same..... > Ten thousand self-contained Carcosas, one in each living-room. Locked up in a "gated community", where The Association dictates what shades of pink are acceptable colors to paint your house. (And "your" is relative here, because the best you can do is a 99-year lease from The Corporation.) Where the cops can write you a ticket if the kids play in the sprinklers and leave the hose lying in the front yard. Ack! That's RL in Orange County! Ack! > I'll post more as new ideas come to me. Remind me to avoid those posts. I'm going to be having nightmares tonight as it is... -- CH (picturing brown people pushing strollers with white babies) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:15 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The End of the Conspiracy? On 27 September 2001, EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) said: >And what about Leng? It might probably be located in Afghanistan or >Usbekistan, >what might lead to trouble of some sort [ "Sir, we found out that this >plateau >in Afghanistan's Northeast seems to lack any large towns or enemy troops. >Why >don't we deploy the 82nd Airborne Division over there in this place....what >is >it called....Leng." ] And, if this plan is carried out, hopefully some DG Agent or Friendly in DoD will see to it that the 82nd packs plenty of large canisters of Raid or Black Flag spider spray, and that machetes (for cutting spiderwebs) and TH3 Thermit incindeary grenades. (The US Army apparently doesn't use flame throwers any more -- I heard that some international agreement recently outlawed them.) IIRC, there is something in the Dreamlands book about Leng providing a connection to the Dreamlands? Would be interesting to have a HEMTT (Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck, or "Hemitt", as it is generally called) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/hemtt.htm) with some DG-friendly 82nd and Special Forces troopers, and some attached nonmilitary DG personnel (my thanks to the folks on this List who came up with rationales for including them incountry) accidentally finds a Gate to the Dreamlands while on their way to link up with some odd-sounding cult that also wants to hit the Taliban. The HEMTT would likely turn into a big horse-drawn wagon. (But, oops, no horses -- despite having 450 horses under the hood, I don't think part of a modern vehicle would turn into a living thing, even with the reality of the Dreamlands acting upon it!) Their M-16s and M-4s would probably become swords (did any of these people take fencing or were they SCA fighters, perhaps?), while their SOCOM .45s turn into knives! Their flashlights would become DnD style oil lanterns, while their radios would probably simply vanish... or would remain as they were, but not function. IIRC, from the Dreamlands book, their uniforms wouldn't change, though their ballistic-nylon body armor wouldn't be optimal against Dreamlands melee weapons... They would have the advantage, if they ran into anybody or anything over there they needed to fight, that they would be fighting as a disciplined team, while most medieval style warriors tended to fight in a more disorganized manner. And, when they eventually get back to the waking world, there is the matter of a report ("_What_ happened to your truck, Captain??"), and probably they would _still_ need to link up with the cultists to help in dealing with the Taliban forces and continue the hunt for Bin Laden! (And imagine the fun when, later on, some of them return to the Dreamlands via Dreaming! ("This place looks _familiar_!")):) > >Thus: In my opinion there will be a large number of reports dealing with >'mythos >spotting' especially by men from the armed forces. As above, and that might be a minor case compared to some of what will happen!:) > >And there will be men that remember. > >Higher ranking officers, politicians, journalists, all veterans of the >Vietnam >War, that remember what they saw: The Tcho Tcho, the forbidden temples, >those >awkwardly fishlike looking Vietcong in that Village near the delta of the >Mekong.... "Mr. President, it is my opinion that these... unusual... threats pose a Clear and Present Danger to the safety of the United States and its allies. While it would, I believe, be unwise to publicly acknowledge these phenomena, I also advise that we cannot afford to ignore them." > >And some of them may remember DELTA GREEN, not necessarily by the name, but >by >the deeds. > >And someone might come up with the idea of reactivating this organisation, >ending its status of an illegal conspiracy. "Sir, in the past we had a covert organization, a multi-agency taskforce, with both civilian and military members, called up as necessary, which was optimized to deal with threats of this type. It developed procedures and weapons for meeting these foes who attack Freedom, and defeating their evil aims. It was deactivated near the close of the Vietnam conflict, but I suggest it may be time to look into reactivating it. No, Mr. President, I don't think it would be a good idea to publicize that reactivation -- the organization's value is not in deterrence so much as covert activity against the Threat Forces... This would be a "Black" program. It was called "Delta Green", Sir... Yes, I agree, it's a good-sounding name! Yes, Sir, I think I know who I can contact concerning it..." > >The WTC tragedy might totally change the role of DG once again... Yes, a good case can be made for the possibility of Delta Green coming in out of the cold again! (Of course, an equally good case might be made for it remaining its own boss, and siphoning funds, personnel, and equipment from the ongoing antiterrorist war...) And if it is recreated, it would be as a result of (in effect) a much larger Innsmouth -- a raid against enemies which proved to have Mythos connections, and which exposed the danger posed by the Mythos to people who decided the nation -- and Mankind -- needed protection from it. (At least that would be nice-sounding for the people who reestablished DG as an official, covert, arm of the government to say...):) This would not by any means signal the end of the feud -- er, the _rivalry_ with Majestic! Turf battles by government agencies are all too common in Washington and elsewhere. Those by secret agencies are less publicized, but perhaps even worse than those for publicly known organizations. In "The Aquarium", Suvrov describes how the rivalry between the KGB and the GRU became so intense that they would at times be putting as much effort into undermining one another's operations as they did into spying on NATO! Congressional oversight committees and nosy reporters looking for scoops on "Black" programs might soon make ALPHONSE wish for the Good Old Days of the illegal conspiracy! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] A little help > Because - sorry - I do not see otherwise the reason for this > proliferation > of Victoriana. > Sure, continuity and thematic whatever, yes, but you'll come to a > point in > which your players will simply nuke anything built before 1901, > just to be > on the safe side. > > Let's try and look in the other direction. > David Clemens already mentioned modern buildings. > What about those weird Lloyd-Wright-esque buildings that popped up about > the landscape in the '50s and '60s? > New definitions of space, new liaison between inside and outside.... > Just what the doctor ordered. > Imagine Carcosa slowly seeping into a suburban model neighborhood - ennui > and alienation among houses that all look exactly the same..... > Ten thousand self-contained Carcosas, one in each living-room. > > I'll post more as new ideas come to me. I would suggest (keeping with the Victorian theme) some sort of Indian (Hindu) temple, imagine the temple statuary coming alive, wierd hints of left-handed tantric rites out of the corners, wierd smells, etc. You coulkd easily do the same thing with Egyption... There is a replica (with original artifacts) Egyption tomb in the Field Museum of Chicago that could work well for this. Heck, that could be a wierd adventure with Nazi overtones at the german sub they have in Chicago also. David _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Alek James Hidell [aj_hide11@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft "Unless you are playing Mission Impossible with the exposition opening > including all pertinent files and intel, the Investigators are going to have > to do a little investigating. That's tradecraft." That's FBI/ police investigation, not espionage tradecraft. After said sorts of investigation has found the bad guys, then espionage tradecraft comes in. "> If you don't really care whether or not that suspected cult is really a > Mythos cult before you come in with Desert Eagles ablazin', by all means > skip the tradecraft. If you don't feel a need to know the layout of the > headquarters\temple\compound, the number of guards there or what > preparations they have made to handle the classic half-pincer into a > fortified stronghold, just lock & load." See above. Reconnaissance and pretty simple law enforcement-type investigation would actually yield that sort of information better than espionage tradecraft. "> And who said you can't take on MJ-12? It's probably not a good idea to make > a commando assault on the Country Club, but even massive clandestine > organizations are made up of individuals who have a private life when off > duty. Tradecraft is what you use to find out who they are and where they > live and what their schedule is like and when they are vulnerable and just > what that vulnerability is. Tradecraft is what keeps them from noticing you > while you find these things out." Maybe I'm not getting my point across. The tradecraft I'm speaking of is the mechanism by which you find this information out. I apologize for not being clearer in my original posting. Espionage tradecraft is less about remaining invisible while learning things and more about learningthem in the first place. But the whole thing is moot, because the agencies who practice this craft cannot legally be active on US soil, and, even if a CIA operations officer were in on a DG operation, it could only be on foreign soil, because that's where he is. There are (officially) no CIA operations officers doing anything other than holidaying on US soil while active employees of the Company. They simply aren't physically present. > Tradecraft is what you use to make or spot a Friendly. Human resources management. No espionage tradecraft. "Tradecraft is what you use to set up a Green Box." I have no idea what that is, so I'll give it to you. Tradecraft is what you use to pass hardcopy > or cash to a team member when you suspect you are under surveillance. Not really. You or I could run a dead drop, and I'll wager you have as little espionage training as I do. > Tradecraft is what you use to follow someone undetected, or to shake a tail > you've picked up. A police officer could do so just as easily, perhaps better. Tradecraft is the care and feeding of an informant, or > spotting a potential informant in the first place. Yes! That is tradecraft. > See 'em and shoot 'em? Well, yeah, that's pretty much what happens *at the > end*, but there's supposed to be some role-playing along the way. That's why > the player characters are called Investigators in CoC. Look at 99% of the folks who post here, especially some of the more vocal ones. Are they likely to have that much patience? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Alek James Hidell [aj_hide11@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] to hell in a bucket, part deux > How do you stop murdering bastards driving around hacking people with > machetes? You shoot them with 5.56N copper jacketed lead until they > stop. You'd need less than 10,000 troops to do this for three to six > months. Then you slowly start withdrawing troops until only the original > 2000 or so UN bluehats are left. I'm not sure what sort of Darwinian realpolitik this would be, but this is not peace making. It is not saving lives, it is postponing the massacres until 1) The machineguns are gone 2) The "murdering bastards" get brave or numerous enough to take the machineguns on. A massacre like this isn't peace making. It isn't even the law of the jungle. It's just sick. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Alek James Hidell [aj_hide11@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:44 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft "> Remember, any CIA agent who is part of Delta Green will be operating > illegally anyway. The question of "is it legal" should never arise. The CIA > has in the past operated inside the country (in the sixties, Cuban exiles > and all that jazz) and furthermore, using the "foreign terrorists" card they > can be brought in perfectly legally." But the CIA operations officer won't be physically present on US soil to participate in an illegal operation. Operations officers, who use tradecraft, are all posted overseas. In an illegal operation like Operation MONGOOSE, its either deliberately rotated "home" operations officers (which requires considerable logictical complicity on the part of the whole agency) or non -Company "advisors" or "contractors". Niether would be able to lark off to the Massachusetts backwoods to do for some degenerate cultists. "> My players do. If they want just to kill stuff, it's (IMO) not Delta Green. > It's Delta Gunz." Then you're very lucky. I haven't encountered a role playing gamer yet who prefers thinking to shooting. "> My closing statement: Tradecraft is for verimilitude, it helps the > Suspension of Disbelief, which is very important in a game like Delta Green. > Take away that realism and you'll end up with a Pale Pooch game, which > reminds more of a bad TV series." I could not agree more, but any Keeper worth the name can keep this very real and suspend disbelief for days. I actually played in a game of the lamentably ludicrous Dugeons and Dragons, and the game master handled a nasty supernatural critter of his own devising with such skill and subtlty that I, a strapping lad of eighteen at the time, was afraid to drive home at night. If your keeper knows his onions, you can have capably suspended disbelief without, for example, the minutae of tradecraft. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Alek James Hidell [aj_hide11@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:55 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft > > The Karotechia, Skoptsi, Tiger Transit, > > and the Brotherhood of New Potential? See 'em and shoot 'em. > > Gotta find 'em, first. And the FBI or another law enforcement body would be a better choice than the Company. Except for the Karotechia. > If that's the mission, yes--use commandos. But since I've never run a > mission of that nature (not intentionally, anyway!--my players have turned a > couple of missions into cowboy ops, certainly), I'd like to have a primer to > hand out to my players ahead of time. Not overly complex--something maybe > three or four pages long, just enough to get them started on what they as > agents can do, what would get them arrested if they do it in public, how to > *act* like a proper agent (even if they are going to "go cowboy" under cover > of the night) so the non-DG investigators and the public don't think they're > fakes, Actually, you know a good source for that sort of information? The CIA itself. They LOVE to give it out. In fact, they sent me a very informative pamphlet on how an operations officer does his job. > Sounds like you're believing the hype over on the Strange Aeons list, or > taking in-jokes too seriously. I have no idea what Strange Aeons is, and I do read many posts from people who gauge the strength of solutions to problems by caliber. "> Some people do play "Delta Gunz," and that's fine if that's what you enjoy, > but I've always had the impression that the majority of people who post here > are not in favor of that style of play." I get that impression too. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a militia mailing list or anything like that. Here's another way to look at my argument. If tradecraft were being used properly by a PC, that introduces considerable work for the Keeper. How many Keepers are going to flesh out their scenarios enough to make information in the depth the proper use of tradecraft would reveal available? How many players, even the cerebral ones, are going to have enough patience for that? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 3:54 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft Good Evening. David A. Farnell schrieb: [snip] > they ended up "going > cowboy" on the Tcho-tcho restaurant in broad daylight, gunning down those > poor Asian immigrants without any evidence for cause. So they destroyed > their careers, of course ruining any usefulness they could have brought to > DG, and also had the FBI (their own agency) after them for murder and > hate-crimes. They made the 10 Most-Wanted List. And the main bad guy got > away clean. Needless to say, they never got an invitation to the opera. > > Not what I'd call a successful investigation. Sure, but probably very satisfying. But I experienced something very similar. Quite a while ago I had the idea to try a campaign with a group consisting only of people from the IRS. There were high accounting skills a plenty but the group lacked 'classical' investigative skills. In their first and....well...scenario [ an operation before becoming part of DG ] they had to investigate possible tax fraud at an internation company. One of the branches of this enterprise was a fastfood chain serving Asian food [ 'Tibetian Gong Restaurants' [tm] ]. They found out that these restaurants used Tcho-Tcho as employees as well as that one of the major businesses of the firm was to import illegal drugs from central Asia to both the US and European markets. One investigator turned insane [When he found out about just *what* kind of meat was used in the restaurants' special burgers ], one was shot and killed in the course of the investigation. The survivor. So bought himself a couple of guns and entered the Tibetian Gong Restaurant on Concord Avenue in Cambridge / Mass. just next to the Burger King, taking 25 guests and 13 employees of Asian origin as hostages. After holding a fiery speech about the true character of the food served and the company behind all this "Falling Down-Style" he killed 9 staff members and 8 guests before he himself was killed by an arriving SWAT Team. Not a very successful investigation either. But it was played out by the characters in a good way. And it served as a scenario hook for another group that was provided with the tapes of the restaurant's surveillance cameras as well as footage from TV stations and of course the few reports that other group had managed to type into their notebooks before their end. [snip] > > Alek, you might want to wait until you know people here better before you > say stuff like that. Your two cents gets devalued when you speak from > ignorance. And people might start calling you "kirkesque" ;-) eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] A little help ----- Original Message ----- From: > prominently in the presentation of the Vibe. So far I have used: a crumbling > and abandoned Victorian-era sewage treatment plant, a crumbling and abandoned > Victorian-era grand hotel, Try Dr Locrian's Asylum http://www.longshadows.com/ligotti/dla.html The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:02 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] tradecraft <<<"Unless you are playing Mission Impossible with the exposition opening including all pertinent files and intel, the Investigators are going to have to do a little investigating. That's tradecraft." That's FBI/ police investigation, not espionage tradecraft. After said sorts of investigation has found the bad guys, then espionage tradecraft comes in. >>> And it could also be called reconnaissance. We're getting into semantics here. <<>> Two words: Cold War. Remaining invisible while learning things seems the essence of espionage tradecraft. <<>> Which brings up a point: IF you're correct, any CIA types (or DIA, N for that matter) acting on behalf of DG are doing so illegally already. All the more reason to remain invisible. <<<"Tradecraft is what you use to set up a Green Box." I have no idea what that is, so I'll give it to you.>>> Are you sure you're not Khorne? <<>> Same as encryption, B&E, et. al. ... we might be able to do it... but to do it successfully in real life is something else. << you've picked up. A police officer could do so just as easily, perhaps better.>>> I don't know about 'better'.. and your average cop on the beat wouldn't have a chance. Detective... maybe. <<>> Now you're just being rude. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Alek James Hidell [aj_hide11@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] to hell in a bucket, part deux If they're hacking people to death with machetes, yes I would say that is a > wonderful foreign policy. Kinda like saying we really shouldn't have > bombed Germany into the Stone Age during the Second World War because, hey > fuck some six million Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, and homos, we don't want to > piss anyone off. Would you have gone and machinegunned Hutus and Tutsis to stop their war? Would you have sent a son or daughter to do that machinegunning? How would you feel when that son or daughter came home in a zipper bag over a bunch of people in a country you'd never heard of that got upset with each other? What was the cause of the massacre in Rwanda? A grudge hundreds, maybe thousands of years old. Is that grudge going to go away if a bunch of white men from the west administer the Man In Black's copper jacketed 5.56mm justice? No. It would be just one more case of western imperialism, and the resentment would build and build. They killed each other with farm implements...machetes. This wasn't a war the west started, or could have stopped by withdrawing support. Justice, peace keeping, law enforcement or whatever you want to call it is not machine gunning people. Yes, the west should have done something to stop the killing in Rwanda, but had they gone in with guns blazing, there would have been more harm than good. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft Good evening. Alek James Hidell schrieb: [snip] > > "> My players do. If they want just to kill stuff, it's (IMO) not Delta > Green. > > It's Delta Gunz." > > Then you're very lucky. I haven't encountered a role playing gamer yet who > prefers thinking to shooting. Seems that you tend to linger in the bad parts of RPG city..... But seriously: If you take your time to sit and listen you will certainly find out that at least on this list this just isn't true. But actually I do fear that because your biased view concerning this list that you have already made public in several posts, you might be unable to differ between in-jokes and the way DG is actually played by the majority of members of DGML. eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft Alek James Hidell schrieb: [snip] > > > See 'em and shoot 'em? Well, yeah, that's pretty much what happens *at > the > > end*, but there's supposed to be some role-playing along the way. That's > why > > the player characters are called Investigators in CoC. > > Look at 99% of the folks who post here, especially some of the more vocal > ones. Are they likely to have that much patience? Ahem....take care, young man...or it might really happen that someone really might lose his patience... eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:11 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] tradecraft Agent Xavier reviewed his notes... his supervisor thought he was attending a symposium on the new developments in the European aerospace industry, but those cultists in the backwoods of Ohio needed a case of whup-ass. Of course, delivering said whup-ass would be illegal... and in the US... **POOF** Agent Xavier disappears in a puff of logic. After all, CIA agents cant illegally operate in the US. <<>> _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:13 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft Alek James Hidell - who starts make my brain hurt - wrote: [snip] > I get that impression too. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a militia mailing > list or anything like that. Aye, muchas gracias for this helpful insight and expert analysis, mate. > Here's another way to look at my argument. If > tradecraft were being used properly by a PC, that introduces considerable > work for the Keeper. How many Keepers are going to flesh out their > scenarios enough to make information in the depth the proper use of > tradecraft would reveal available? How many players, even the cerebral > ones, are going to have enough patience for that? Oh, boy. Roleplaying is about telling a good story. A good use of "Tradecraft" is helpful, as the almighty Lizard King has already tried to explain to you. A tradecraft-overkill will ruin a gaming session as much as a hardware- or warfare-overkill. eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] A little help ----- Original Message ----- From: > title "Le Roi Dans Jean", then descending into homelessness Actually it's "LE ROI EN JAUNE", not "LE ROI DANS JEAN". (( Which latter title brings to mind a vision of corrupt snivelling French Dauphan or kinglet tupping the Maid of Orleans while she lies bound, on the night before her burning. Pure; praying; angry; beautiful; scorning him completely; not deigning to notice her rape. Ahem. )) Well anyway. Look at http://myweb.worldnet.net/~c_thill/chambers/HomePage.html Now perhaps you will feel all embarassed, well don't be, it doesn't matter a hoot. Except that the link above does have triff French translations of bits of the KIY, which might be useful. CAMILLA : Vous devriez, Monsieur, vous démasquer. L'ETRANGER : Vraiment ? CASSILDA : Vraiment, il est temps. Nous avons tous ôté nos déguisements, sauf vous. L'ETRANGER : Je ne porte pas de masque. CAMILLA : (Terrifiée, à Cassilda) Pas de masque ? Pas de masque ! Le Roi en Jaune Acte 1, Scène 2d. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Alek James Hidell [aj_hide11@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft > Alek, you might want to wait until you know people here better before you > > say stuff like that. Your two cents gets devalued when you speak from > > ignorance. > > > And people might start calling you "kirkesque" ;-) How do I say this without starting a pissing contest? I have been...what's the term? lurking...around this this for the better part of the last three years, watching. It's quite voyeuristic, actually. I don't want to start a fight over this, because it's not worth it and we all have better things to do, so I'll leave this topic with this: I know of what I speak. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:39 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Rhino Teams "Michael Layne" > And, if this plan is carried out, hopefully some DG Agent or >Friendly in DoD will see to it that the 82nd packs plenty of large >canisters of Raid or Black Flag spider spray, and that machetes (for >cutting spiderwebs) and TH3 Thermit incindeary grenades. (The US Army >apparently doesn't use flame throwers any more -- I heard that some >international agreement recently outlawed them.) and mostly unrelated.... I have just introduced the Delta Green "Rhino Teams" to our campaign. I figure why should the military be the only one to play with the big toys. Have you ever found that your cell just was not quite cutting it in the fire power area for the really tough ops? Cultists in hundreds rather than tens? Send out to cell "A" for a six man Rhino team. Each socially maladjusted member hails from one or another of the DOD's best of the best. They TAD out four times a year to train with special ops groups worldwide, courtesy of a highly placed friendly, and pack the latest in creatively acquired man portable firepower and heavy body armor. These are NOT the folk you want for low key insertions, recon, hostage rescue and high mobility operations. They take "eliminate with extreme prejudice" to new levels. After the cell has beat its collective skull against the bunker where (fill in the blank)'s high priest has buried himself for a few weeks, call in the Rhino Team and start fine tuning your best dis-information techniques on a meteor strike story. When it's over there is nothing left but a two story deep glassine crater. Equipment selection for the Rhino team we used reads something like this: M16 w/M203 attached, M60, LAW missiles, 60mm mortar, man portable flame throwers, chemical agent projectors, grenades of every flavor, claymore mines (my personal fav) and, in the spirit of world wide harmony, the international versions of this equipment. Note: the DG cell members lost plenty of sanity while sifting through remnants left over by the Rhino's. Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 4:51 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] tradecraft Alek James Hidell schrieb: [snip] > How do I say this without starting a pissing contest? I have been...what's > the term? lurking...around this this for the better part of the last three > years, watching. It's quite voyeuristic, actually. I don't want to start a > fight over this, because it's not worth it and we all have better things to > do, so I'll leave this topic with this: I know of what I speak. This is both cryptic and insulting, actually. Don't get me wrong, Alek, but even though there is some gunfondling supreme on this list - and since you lurked for some time, you should know my opinion about the 'necessity' of gunfondling -, most of this list's members do have more sophisticated and mature view on DG. And to be honest, I consider saying "I know of what I speak" to be a rather cheap and unfair way of ending an discussion. eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Chris Womack [jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:04 PM To: deltagreen revolutionsf.com Subject: Intra-List Civility (was Re: [DG] tradecraft) on 9/27/01 4:12 PM, Eckhard Huelshoff at EHuelshoff@t-online.de wrote: > Alek James Hidell - who starts make my brain hurt - wrote: > [snip] You're not the only one on whom he's having this effect, Eckhard. Mr. "Hidell" seems every bit as intent on baiting listmembers into pointless arguments over...well, anything, as the absent-but-not-lamented Khorne. Amazing how Mr. "Hidell's" vociferous arrival coincides with Khorne's sudden disappearance--the math is there if anybody wants to do it. And now to address Alek James Hidell directly--let me offer this bit of advice: based on your evident unfamiliarity with this list and/or with things DG (as evidenced by remarks like "'Tradecraft is what you use to set up a Green Box.'I have no idea what that is, so I'll give it to you") (and wasn't this another of Khorne's annoying traits?), you want to spend a little more time acquainting yourself with the contents of the Ice Cave and the list archives, and a little less time sounding off on matters where you must needs profess ignorance. As for me--and I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else--I'm done reading you. Now if folks want to flame for this post, feel free; I've got a sufficiently thick skin. It's simply that I'm sick and tired of seeing people sign on to the DGML apparently solely out of a desire to hijack all discussions (okay, that may be a poor choice of metaphor, mea culpa) by dint of unremitting antagonism. So is my subject line hypocritical or merely ironic? I leave it to the reader to decide. C Chris Womack jcwomack@earthlink.net Keeper of the DGML (Ret'd.); COOF #0 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] to hell in a bucket, part deux [OT] > justice? No. It would be just one more case of western imperialism, and > the resentment would build and build. They killed each other with farm > implements...machetes. This wasn't a war the west started, or could have > stopped by withdrawing support. Speaking of Western Imperialism, isolationism isn't a great answer either. America's rich, and the majority does not like being a have-not. The destruction of a center of commerce, that strikes you as a resentment of military intervention or wealth? This test is not timed. You and I can say the conditions of the world are their own issues, America should stop f'in about in other's businesses, but it's a catch twenty two if you are paying attention. Someone's going to hate America because we aren't making their life better, and someone's going to hate America because we are making someone's life better, let alone when we're making someone's life harder. Anyway, that's my peace, and I've said it. I will close my eyes, cover me ears, and stomp up and down to avoid furthering OTness... this, ostentaciously, could fit under DG for rational for intervention, if that's bothered with. =p _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:06 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] tradecraft >That's FBI/ police investigation, not espionage tradecraft. After said >sorts of investigation has found the bad guys, then espionage tradecraft >comes in. >Reconnaissance and pretty simple law enforcement-type investigation would >actually yield that sort of information better than espionage tradecraft. >The tradecraft I'm speaking of is the mechanism by which you find this >information out. >Espionage tradecraft is less about remaining invisible while learning things >and more about learningthem in the first place. You're dealing with a real-world definition of tradecraft and the rest of the gaming world is talking about a rules abstraction of tradecraft. There is no such skill in DG as "Reconnaissance and pretty simple law enforcement-type investigation" because that phrase won't fit on a character sheet. Instead, it falls under Tradecraft - a much shorter word that means oh-so-much-more in this context. If you need to know what is being said in a room across the street and you haven't been invited to the party and are likely to be shot if you are discovered then, in the Delta Green gaming universe, you employ Tradecraft. Knowing how such eavesdropping is done is important in some cases of role-playing. Knowing that planting a bug in the room isn't always necessary because you might be able to bounce a laser off the window and listen to the vibrations can mean the difference between character death and Tcho-Tcho death. >Look at 99% of the folks who post here, especially some of the more >vocal ones. Are they likely to have that much patience? I haven't seen very many Delta Gunz posts here. I've seen lots of gun fondling. But being interesting in knowing what your gun can do is much different than being interested in blowing away a bunch of people who might happen to be cultists even though you don't want to take the time to find out first. Gun fondling does not mean trigger happy. We actually had a toilet fondling thread here a while back (shudder!). Does that mean that we're a bunch of compulsive flushers? >I know of what I speak. Not when you speak of most of the members of this list. I doubt that you know more than a couple personally, so you might wanna reserve judgment on their gaming maturity until you've gamed with a few of 'em. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] to hell in a bucket, part deux From: Alek James Hidell >And murdering a thousand or so Africans is always good foreign policy. It's >still just a global schoolyard, except the big kid has a machinegun. Shooting a few thousand machete wielding murderers is vastly superior to allowing them to slaughter 800,000 of their fellow Africans in the largest act of genocide since the Holocaust. The developed world has the power and thus the responsibility to prevent such tragedies. Of course, you'd rather we do NOTHING except sit around and watch CNN while people get chopped into pieces by madmen, right... Please stop trolling the list with your idiocy. It bugs me. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Christopher (Case Officer) [christopher@delta-green.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Splinter list: DGTradecraft I'm too swamped to follow the new list, but if anything comes out of it I'll be glad to take a look at it for the website. (Which WILL get updated with a few new items in the next couple of days. Oh, yes... It will.) christopher@delta-green.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Gatten, Marshall Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 1:49 PM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Splinter list: DGTradecraft Okay, I've gone and done it. Now I guess I'm in for it. I've created a list for the discussion of tradecraft with the ultimate goal of creating a tradecraft briefing book for DG players. Anybody interested can subscribe by sending a blank message to: dgtradecraft-subscribe@topica.com If you want to know more about it before subscribing then visit: http://www.topica.com/lists/dgtradecraft _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/