From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada RE: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada----- Original Message ----- >>> Forget messages, man! This sucker can create full-grown clones! >>Unfortunately it can't. >>In QT you "entangle" the system with a larger system, and then "entangle" >>that larger system with something else and transfer the FULL quantum state > >Okay, well we could still use it to entangle a giant gas cloud with dubya > and then throw the switch to clone the gas cloud. Nobody will much care > if the original gas cloud is destroyed. :) Curse you you damn lefty you. Since there is never any lack of gas around politicians, this is pointless. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:24 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: [DG] From the CDC Plant growth regulators cause illness among Italian workers - Mother's Milk ? http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5039a1.htm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ John Petherick, CIH ROH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Pre-Archive DGML Archive I was looking at the archive on the Delta Green website and I think there are some files missing. The first edition in the Delta-Green.com archive is Volume 01 : Number 001 on Wednesday, April 8 1998. If my memory serves me correctly the real "first" DGML missive was taken up with errata from the book in order to fill out the first edition to be large enough to test the mail server. I also remember the archive as existing on another site prior to its current home. Anyone point me in the right direction? Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:56 PM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] describing reverb I've been trying to figure out how best to describe the first-hand effects of a goodly dose of reverb. My (first) first (was) thought (this) was (like talk) to talk (thought) like (to) this (My). However, that requires prescripting of nearly everything I say during the Reverb trip. So then I thought of describing things thusly: "She pulls the trigger just after the man's head jerks back from the impact of her bullet, and then she aims the gun and pulls the trigger. She then reaches into her purse and pulls out a gun. Then the man's head jerks back just before she pulls the trigger. You know that none of this has happened yet, except to say that it's happened a few times so far." However, I can't imagine keeping that up for long. My latest thought is to describe extreme deja vu and jamais vu symptoms colliding, but I'm not sure how I can effectively do that either. Something along the lines of: "As you empty your first cup of tea for the second time, it occurs to you that you never started drinking it." I'm also a bit conflicted on how heavy to make the trip. It could be a light trip for an hour or so with a light sprinkling of weirdness like the tea example, or it could be a couple minutes of intense confusion like the (like example) first example (first). I'd be interested to hear how others of you have described the trip to your players. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 5:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] describing reverb At 02:56 PM 10/4/01 -0700, Gatten, Marshall wrote: >I've been trying to figure out how best to describe the first-hand effects >of a goodly dose of reverb. FWIW I described the nice effects of Reverb as "returning to the womb". That's why the ex-Ecstasy users kept their pacifiers even though there was little danger of biting their tongue or whatever the reason is they use them while on ex, as a symbolic indication of the child-like regression they were experiencing. Further users might feel a return to a primal level, which can explain why Reverb is used for hot animal monkey sex. Another aspect of hard-core Reverb abuse could be an "expansion of consciousness" as the user begins to see and experience the other domains. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Chris Womack [jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:53 PM To: deltagreen revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Pre-Archive DGML Archive Hey-- on 10/4/01 4:53 PM, david wienecke at dwienecke@usa.net wrote: > I was looking at the archive on the Delta Green website and I think there are > some files missing. The first edition in the Delta-Green.com archive is Volume > 01 : Number 001 on Wednesday, April 8 1998. If my memory serves me correctly > the real "first" DGML missive was taken up with errata from the book in order > to fill out the first edition to be large enough to test the mail server. I > also remember the archive as existing on another site prior to its current > home. Anyone point me in the right direction? You're partially correct. The list was created on its original host, nocturne.org, on or around April 2, 1998, but until as late as April 5 the only subscribers were myself (the original list admin), the site owner of nocturne.org, and one or two of the Paganistas (I know John Tynes was on for sure, but can't remember with certainty whether Scott Glancy or any of the others had also signed on at that point). The list's existence wasn't announced publicly for a few days after its inception so we could get all the bugs worked out and so Tynes could finish an update to the DG website that would include the official announcement. You're right that on April 7th several messages consisting of filler material were sent out in order to produce sufficient volume to generate the first digest--but that filler was not errata from the DG sourcebook (I don't think such errata had even been compiled at that time anyway, as the book was still in its first printing), but rather errata from the first printing of Atlas Games' fourth edition of _Ars Magica_. It should be obvious why that material was excised from the archive. Now, looking at that archive it's obvious that some other messages are missing, as the first message in it is a reply from Don Juneau to Matt Cowger, but unfortunately any messages that came before that are lost, as obviously the digest function (from which the archives were in turn generated) was not activated until that point. I remember sending out the first message to the list that might be considered to have actual content (rather than just test messages and the like, which was pretty much all the traffic for those first few days) on April 5th (or possibly the 6th), when the Mars Global Surveyor sent back its first pictures of the Cydonia region showing no sign of a face on Mars, but that post didn't spark much discussion (again largely because there was hardly anybody subscribed to the list at that point). I would surmise that any traffic that preceded the activation of the digest consisted basically of "why are we here?" messages, folks asking for advice, and that sort of thing. Nothing stands out in my memory, at any rate--when I look at the archive, I don't find myself thinking "man, it's too bad that thread on such-and-such didn't get captured." If anybody does happen to have any messages from the early days of the DGML predating the activation of the digest, I'd be curious to see them, if only for nostalgia's sake. I should also point out that all materials relating to the DGML have been removed from the list's original host, nocturne.org. All extant archives were successfully transferred to the official DG website (where they currently reside). I have copies of both the archives and the original digest files on a zip disk, but again the only thing they show that the publicly-posted archives don't are those filler messages with the ArM errata. So if you're looking for a conspiracy, consider this your notice of plausible denial. C Chris Womack jcwomack@earthlink.net Keeper of the DGML (Ret'd.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:06 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] describing reverb On a computer, far, far away, Gatten, Marshall wrote: > I'd be interested to hear how others of you have described the trip to your > players. I described it as a cross between an LSD-style hallucigen, and Mrs Cake leaving her premonition switched on. Jon -- Jonathan Ward || "Strange, the transfers stopped after about 30,000." School of Engineering || "After 32767?" Aston University || "Oh. Yeah." *click* j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || [Real conversation at a previous place of work] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 3:57 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Gunfondlers Wet Dream > -----Original Message----- > From: Rayburn, Russell E. [mailto:RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 21:38 > To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' > Subject: RE: [DG] Gunfondlers Wet Dream > > > And anything like this should have some sort of 'maintenance > mode' or a > reset switch. This reminds me of some interesting information one of my colleagues who have worked with airplane-testing told me : the recording systems in all american, and some european, airliners that save the pilot- conversations have a manual reset-switch so the pilots can remove any "incriminating conversations" if they so choose. This was a demand from the pilots union for reasons of "personal integrity", and so they could avoid being sued ... Of course, the lack of conversation can be just as damning and there is still the flight-recorder, even though it only presents technical data ... Obdg : When screams of "Byakhee" or "Nightgaunt" have echoed in the cabin, just press the button and don't worry about the FAA. > On 1 October 2001, "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" wrote: > > >Gatten, Marshall wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > >[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > Regardless, once there is a biometric in the gun, we > won't be far from > > > having the biometric transferred to the bullets in some > fashion. Every > No, they will find a way of bypassing this feature if > they use such a > weapon, and feeding false data to the memory in the bullets. > I am certain > that a false trail could be created from recorded data. Or they would simply dig out the bullets. Messy but effective. My players have used it several times to remove bullets from their government-issued guns. Which can lead to this (genuine in-game) conversation : -"We need you to remove the bullets." -"Oh, god. Not again. Yech, he smells. When did you shoot him?" -"Two days ago." -"Strange, he looks like he's been dead longer." -"Yeah, he died a week ago." /JoB _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 9:55 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com ' Subject: RE: [DG] describing reverb >I described it as a cross between an LSD-style hallucigen, and Mrs >Cake leaving her premonition switched on. Gotta love Mrs. Cake. Mrs. Cake: "I'm not your good woman!" Ridcully: "And who are you, my good woman?" Mrs. Cake: "Well, that's no way to talk to a respectable person." Ridcully: "There's no need to be offended." Mrs. Cake: "Oh blow, is that what I'm doin'?" Ridcully: "Madam, why are you answering me before I've even said something?" Mrs. Cake: "What?" Ridcully: "What d'you mean?" Kind of a toned down version of my (idea) first (my) idea. M From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Til Eulenspiegel [duggerj1@home.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 10:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] T-Shirt? Yeah, right. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thursday, 04 October 2001 Hello all, The DGML shirt sure seemed like a good idea. I even paid money for it--twice. The most recent time came the middle of last July. You know what? I give up. This project might happen, but pigs might fly. R. Thomas of Cardiff, Wales: prove me wrong, please. dugger@vss.fsi.com : duggerj1@home.com : til_e@hotmail.com Go give blood: (800) GIVE-LIFE This too shall pass. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO73K4ijXCkSehE2kEQKCZwCfRuDxucIt3qjrXYPjm/IYLu2ihCoAn1ND pkvuZsDLzLXI2UpNkh99GWFX =77mb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 10:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [[DG] T-Shirt? Yeah, right.] "Til Eulenspiegel" wrote: >R. Thomas of Cardiff, Wales: prove me wrong, please. I also payed for the screen printed version but have yet to hear anything. I think MJ-12 has compromised the list and is using the cash to front research on Deep ones. I finally gave up and made my own. The graphics are out there and you can purchase iron-on sheets for your printer for about $10 for 5 sheets. It's not the greatest but it is a DGML T-shirt. Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Chris Waring [chris@thembsgroup.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 11:33 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Fertility Rites Hi there, Thought I'd introduce myself to the list, but suffered a complete lack of inspiration for a suitable DG topic, so I've dug this New Scientist article up for you delectation. It reeks of Shub-Niggurath to me. Check it: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991386 Ia! Chris _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 11:55 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fertility Rites ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Waring" > Hi there, > > Thought I'd introduce myself to the list, but suffered a complete lack of inspiration > for a suitable DG topic, so I've dug this New Scientist article up for you > delectation. It reeks of Shub-Niggurath to me. Well, well, well. Welcome. Prayer doubles IVF success rate Prayer can double the success rate of IVF treatments, according to a double blind study published in the respected Journal of Reproductive Medicine. A team in the US asked groups of people around the world to pray for pregnancy in one half of almost 200 women undergoing the fertility treatment in South Korea. The prayer groups were given only photographs of the women, I'd treat this by inverting the standard DG assumptions. Why should prayer have this effect? The "obvious" idea is that some Mythos entity is listening in. But this isn't that surprising. Suppose instead it's a natural phenomenon? Something like morphic resonance? Have your players investigate Shubby and then discover it has nothing to do with her - it's simply one aspect of the interconnectedness of things. *Then* have Shubby turn up *as a result of their meddling* and do something awful that would never of happened if they had remained ignorant, like what we should always have been. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Radoslaw Galus [grey_man@priv.onet.pl] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 12:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] yet another newbie Hi, my name is Radek and I'm from Poland. I came across DG during a convention 2 years ago and fell in love with the setting instantly. As for the list - I've been a lurker for quite a while now. I really enjoyed reading it all - the fiction and the threads. Great stuff. Very inspiring. But enough of that. I recently got my tentacles on a fresh group of players and decided to teach them a thing or two about horror. I already had a nasty idea evolving in my head and after a little tinkering I put together an outline for a campaign (it's still very sketchy). I'm planning to kick it off next month. I thought I'd ask you guys for opinion. What I have in mind isn't a DG campaign. I will be using elements of the setting (Alzis and the Fate, an intervention of Delta Green is also possible) to spice it all up but the focus isn't going to be on the conspiracy. Hope you won't find it too off-topic. The basic idea is simple (it gets complicated once you consider the moral implications). The characters are to be a part of a secret society called the Feeders. Members of this small group have dedicated themselves to a difficult task. They make sure a being, which was summoned in the 1930s and which killed more than 20 people before it was lured into a trap and put to sleep, is kept in check. Unfortunately the entity's lethargic state is solely dependant on it's hunger (it fed by absorbing pain it caused while torturing and killing). The Feeders work to satisfy its needs (hence the name) in a controlled way. It's the lesser evil. They search out, capture and ritually sacrifice human monsters to prevent an inhuman beast from feasting on the innocent. This ought to keep the characters (and their consciences) busy for a while. Tracking down psychopaths, murderers, rapists, pedophiles and handing them over to be tortured to death on the altar of an alien being should make for a few dark, gritty games. Of course there's more to it than just that. The characters will realize this as they gradually learn more about the Feeders and get more involved in the group's affairs. First off, different members of the Feeders perceive "innocence" differently and have different ideas of should/shouldn't be sacrificed. They act accordingly, at times being no better than the human monsters they should be after. It's the "you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs" thing. Keeping the group's illegal activity a secret also requires drastic measures. Often it's much safer just to grab a homeless guy off the street than to make a well known criminal disappear. And then, there's the entity itself. It seems the decades of feeding conditioned it to develop a mental link to those who perform the rituals. Whenever it's hungry (and its hunger grows constantly), it reflexively "calls" on them, flooding their minds with horrifying dreams and visions. It's the fast lane to madness. Moreover the entity's presence corrupts people who have a tendency for violence and sadism. That means there are a couple of dangerous psychos in the very heart of the Feeders' group. Oh, and I almost forgot about the Martyrs, the being's avatars. I'm still working on this part... In the 70s the group experienced a crisis. The entity's hunger and influence had been growing over time 'till finally the Feeders couldn't keep up with it. They were losing men fast - due to police investigations (DG involvement?) and madness. The group was about to be compromised and fall apart. In panic the the Feeders did something utterly mad. Some of the "monsters" they had sacrificed dabbled in the occult. One of them used enchanted stones to bind his victims' souls to their decaying bodies in order to torment them indefinitely. The Feeders made use of the 6 stones they had recovered to create an unreplenished food supply for the entity. It was an act of inhuman cruelty (out of six so called "Martyrs" who were to suffer eternaly for humanity only 1 was a volunteer) but it seemed to work. The entity went silent and the Feeders disbanded hoping never to be needed again. No such luck. 20 years passed. In this time the spirits of the Martyrs ceased to exist one by one, extinguished by suffering and absorbed by the entity. Come the 90s and the being (darn, I need a name for the thing :) ) caused 2 retired Feeders to commit suicide and another 3 to go permanently insane just by saying "Hi, I'm hungry again". The group resumed activity but there was a new factor to their work. Two Martyrs "survived". They merged with the entity becoming it's conscious avatars. Every now and then they break free of the torture chambers their bodies have become. I'm considering making one of them an ally of the group, occasionally helping its leader with advice. The other will of course be evil incarnate, a combination of human malice and the beings voracious appetite for pain. But I better stop here. I don't want to bore you all to death :) The question I'm trying to answer now is what kind of characters would be best suited for this sort of game and how to recruit them into the group. I could just say "you're members of this secret organization, you hunt psychos so they can be sacrificed in return for humanity's safety" and run the game from there but that would be a waste of roleplaying potential. - RG "To attract good fortune, spend a new coin on an old friend, share an old pleasure with a new friend, and lift up the heart of a true friend by writing his name on the wings of a dragon." -- Zagraj z finalistkami Miss Polonia [ http://miss.onet.pl/start.html ] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman [trollboy@shoggoth.net] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 2:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Shirts I've heard alot of talk about T-Shirts as of late... What interest is there? What sort of shirts are people looking for? I've been considering putting out a line of shirts.. if interested parties would like to contact me offlist, I'd appreciate it.. Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Site Designer: phpslash.org The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. -H.P. Lovecraft --------------------------------------------------------- Please do not resell my e-mail address to anyone or send me unsolicited e-mail --------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 4:07 PM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] New Products From Your Mythos Friends [HUMOR] [WELL, OKAY, BAD HUMOR] Oct 5, 11:21 PM ET - (AP) LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA - It has been three weeks since Shub-Niggurath, The Black Goat of the Woods With a Thousand Young, first came to Lancaster and things have never been better for the local Amish economy. Until now, thoughts of Amish products have usually brought to mind masterwork quilts of every color. However, the local economy is also helped along to some degree by the sale of dairy products. And in the past few weeks those products have seen quite a boost in productivity. "At first," says Zechariah Jones, a local dairy proprietor, "we were just selling the raw milk provided to us by our new friend Shubby. When we saw what a sensation it made, though, we decided to branch out a bit. Take this Butter of Shub Niggurath, for instance...." Zechariah went on to describe the surprisingly enthusiastic reception of black butter. "It's a novelty thing, I guess," he said. Other products include Yogurt of Shub Niggurath, Cottage Cheese of Shub Niggurath, and of course the local favorite, Ice Cream of Shub Niggurath. Also in the works now are plans to start producing various Cheeses of Shub Niggurath. Another local tradesman, Ezekiel Johnson, had this to say: "In the past cheese hasn't sold too well for us here in Pennsylvania because Wisconsin and California had the market tied up. The cheese that we've made has been mostly used here by our Amish brothers. But with the quantity of milk that Shubby's donating, and with the special properties of the products we've made, we're pretty confident that we can turn it into a real good fund raiser for our community." Ezekiel refused to elaborate on the "special properties" and this reporter has been unable to find more details on that aspect of the milk boom, but surely he was simply referring to taste. He also mentioned that he has already chosen one of the product names: Blackjack Cheese. Other types will doubtless include Blackswiss, Blackcheddar, and Blackparmesan. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New Products From Your Mythos Friends [HUMOR] New Products From Your Mythos Friends [HUMOR] ----- Original Message ----- From: Gatten, Marshall >>LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA - >> It has been three weeks since Shub-Niggurath, The Black Goat of the Woods >> With a Thousand Young, first came to Lancaster and things have never been >> better for the local Amish economy. He he he - I kinda like this. Do you know that by the year 2120 there will be 20 million Amish in the USA? For true. Think "fertility goddess" The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada Thus spake The Glove Cleaner: <> Question from a layman's point of view: When you say "you *must* destroy the original," what do you mean? What happens if you don't? Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 6:39 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada ----- Original Message ----- > > < that larger system with something else and transfer the FULL quantum state > of the original system to its new position. > > Question from a layman's point of view: When you say "you *must* destroy > the original," what do you mean? What happens if you don't? When you "entangle" the system, it becomes one thing with the "entangling" system. They are a single system. When you measure that single system at a different point, you transfer the full quantum state of the original unentangled system to the new position and simultaneously destroy the original unentangled system. Creating the "new" system and destroying the "old" one is a single identical physical operation. It's not that you are "compelled" to do two things at the same time. Rather, it is one unitary action. Can't explain it better than that, sorry. That is the way the universe just is. Ain't my fault. The Glove Cleaner (rather drunk, y'know) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 9:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada It's not you must destroy the system: it's that the original system, unknown as it is, is lost forever. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:36 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com >>It's not you must destroy the system: it's that the original system, >>unknown as it is, is lost forever. Yes, that is another way of putting it. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 10:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New Products From Your Mythos Friends [HUMOR] --- Andy Robertson schrieb: > > Do you know that by the year 2120 there will be 20 > million Amish in the USA? > > For true. do amish vote or even run as candidates for offices? or is political participation rejected like modern technics are? obdg: not sure. how would the horses of a amish coroners hearse react when a victim of this weeks mythos monster is loaded? or it just might be funny to watch a mounted sheriff hunt some motorized perp. festus __________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New Products From Your Mythos Friends [HUMOR] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dirk R. Festus Festerling" > --- Andy Robertson > > > Do you know that by the year 2120 there will be 20 > > million Amish in the USA? > > do amish vote or even run as candidates for offices? AFAIK they do not. As I have remarked before, they are an interesting group. One of their basic strategies is keeping apart from the modern world in all respects except the commercial. They reject the state in all respects, but I believe that they are not absolute pacifists, despite what you see in "Witness". A DG campaign set in an Amish community would certainly have unique features. http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/amish.html The figure of 20 million is of course a semi-serious projection: currently there are about 250,000 Amish, but their numbers are increasing very rapidly, doubling every twenty years or so. However it is unlikely that they would retain such a high birth rate if they became an urban population. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:17 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; fictionmags@yahoogroups.com; mitre-pub@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DG] Re: APOCAMON Part 2 is out!! YEEE-HAW!!! http://www.e-sheep.com/apocamon/part2.html _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 3:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Ghoulish language A quick and dirty resource for anyone wanting to add a little depth to a (not-for-publication) scenario using Ghouls. A writer\linguist wrote an unpublished novel that entailed creating an entire Ghoulish language called Dilhok. http://www.insight-media.co.uk/users/andrew/Dilhok.htm I don't think his ghouls are HPL ghouls, but what the hell. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Christopher (Case Officer) [christopher@delta-green.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada Interesting. So how would this look from a dramatic, sci-fi / roleplaying standpoint? The act of analyzing the complex system [whether it's a gas cloud or a hapless Delta Green agent] destroys it; the subject is vaporized, disintegrated, turned into sparkles like a Star Trek transporter? Or does it just wink out of existence? The online journals are lousy for game-effective speculation. ;) Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Andy Robertson Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:36 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com >>It's not you must destroy the system: it's that the original system, >>unknown as it is, is lost forever. Yes, that is another way of putting it. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada At 11:12 AM 10/7/2001 -0500, Christopher \(Case Officer\) wrote: >Interesting. So how would this look from a dramatic, sci-fi / roleplaying >standpoint? The act of analyzing the complex system [whether it's a gas >cloud or a hapless Delta Green agent] destroys it; the subject is vaporized, >disintegrated, turned into sparkles like a Star Trek transporter? Or does >it just wink out of existence? The online journals are lousy for >game-effective speculation. ;) Well, looking at it just from the aspect of Yithian mind travel, it could mean that when a consciousness is transferred, it is destroyed at the most basic level - what is left is a copy that can only be seen as a copy at levels where the Uncertainty Principle kicks in. That could mean major SAN loss for anyone who remembers they were victims of mind-transfer (on top of the usual SAN loss), especially if they have a strong faith in the concept of a "soul" - since at some point, their consciousness is only a copy at a level where God writes code, their "mind" may be preserved during the travel but their "soul" would not. This may not just have repercussions for religious characters. Maybe that deep-level code that gets fudged during the transfer *is* important, and the character is left with the nagging knowledge they are not really a human being with a true consciousness but a clone of that. Maybe that deep code is important to POW, and the victim of a Yithian mind-transfer is left with 0 Magic Points yet somehow remains "alive". Maybe the deep code anchors the character in this reality, and without it, they gradually dissolve into other domains or Carcosa. Maybe I'm getting this all wrong and this post ain't worth crap. I dunno. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:43 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher (Case Officer)" > Interesting. So how would this look from a dramatic, sci-fi / roleplaying > standpoint? The act of analyzing the complex system [whether it's a gas > cloud or a hapless Delta Green agent] destroys it; the subject is vaporized, > disintegrated, turned into sparkles like a Star Trek transporter? If you want a serious answer; it is probably impossible to quantum teleport large masses unless you have some means of isolating them completely from the surrounding environment. This would require a "box" made out of something much more rigid than ordinary matter: neutronium, maybe, or some sort of split in space. So in a "game" sense it is very high-tech - lots of big complex machinery. --- *** --- However, the quantum teleportation of states of information might be possible. This is why I related it to the Yithian mind swap. --- *** --- The point there is that the minds are not "duplicated" - they can be swapped, but they retain their unitary nature. They are not "recorded and transmitted" by the Yithian device. If they were "recorded and transmitted", then the Yithians could run the recording through any number of times and retransmit a single mind to millions of recipients, thus increasing ther numbers vastly. But Quantum teleportation is not like that. It's not copying. If you send something from one point to another, you destroy it (by the act of entanglement) at its original location. I believe that Quantum Teleportation is the only way to transmit *minds*. Minds, I suspect, are so delicate that you cannot rebuld them just by duplicating a brain - even if you copy all the atoms in exactly the right posituions. You have to duplicate the subtle, sub-quantum, states of the matter in the brain. --- *** --- What is interesting is that Yithian mind transfer does *not* send the material construction of the brain at all. But it *does* send the mind. How this works I cannot imagine. This tells us something about the true nature of consciousness which is very mysterious. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:43 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher (Case Officer)" > Interesting. So how would this look from a dramatic, sci-fi / roleplaying > standpoint? The act of analyzing the complex system [whether it's a gas > cloud or a hapless Delta Green agent] destroys it; the subject is vaporized, > disintegrated, turned into sparkles like a Star Trek transporter? If you want a serious answer; it is probably impossible to quantum teleport large masses unless you have some means of isolating them completely from the surrounding environment. This would require a "box" made out of something much more rigid than ordinary matter: neutronium, maybe, or some sort of split in space. So in a "game" sense it is very high-tech - lots of big complex machinery. --- *** --- However, the quantum teleportation of states of information might be possible. This is why I related it to the Yithian mind swap. --- *** --- The point there is that the minds are not "duplicated" - they can be swapped, but they retain their unitary nature. They are not "recorded and transmitted" by the Yithian device. If they were "recorded and transmitted", then the Yithians could run the recording through any number of times and retransmit a single mind to millions of recipients, thus increasing ther numbers vastly. But Quantum teleportation is not like that. It's not copying. If you send something from one point to another, you destroy it (by the act of entanglement) at its original location. I believe that Quantum Teleportation is the only way to transmit *minds*. Minds, I suspect, are so delicate that you cannot rebuld them just by duplicating a brain - even if you copy all the atoms in exactly the right posituions. You have to duplicate the subtle, sub-quantum, states of the matter in the brain. --- *** --- What is interesting is that Yithian mind transfer does *not* send the material construction of the brain at all. But it *does* send the mind. How this works I cannot imagine. This tells us something about the true nature of consciousness which is very mysterious. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:56 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com ' Subject: RE: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada >the character is left with the nagging knowledge they are not really >a human being with a true consciousness but a clone of that. Sounds like a serious case of apotemnophobia. Or is there another name for apotemnophobia when the entire self is involved instead of just a part? From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 11:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: Entangling the Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" > Well, looking at it just from the aspect of Yithian mind travel, it could > mean that when a consciousness is transferred, it is destroyed at the most > basic level - what is left is a copy that can only be seen as a copy at > levels where the Uncertainty Principle kicks in. > Maybe I'm getting this all wrong > and this post ain't worth crap. I dunno. No, I think you have got it exactly right. This is the point- that you send the "full information" (the information that exists "below the level" where the Uncertainty Principle kicks in). But if you send that level of information, Quantum Mechanics tells us that you destroy it by the action of sending it. So we have a (rather simplistic?) identification of the "soul" with the "what exists in the brain below the level where the Uncertainty Principle kicks in, and can only be sent, not measured or copied". I mean, I say simplistic, but I suspect that there is a real insight into the nature of consciousness here. A second point, that might be game-related: the Yithian mind-transfer devices are not immensely complicated. This suggests that the action of "entangling the soul" is astonishingly easy, and in turn that there is something about the human mind, or perhaps about all possible Minds, that makes it that way. The soul is "eager to be entangled". Perhaps the very nature of consciousness depends on this? Obvious ObDG - quantum teleportation research interfering with the Yithians The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Arjun Roy [karna1819@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 12:14 PM To: Deltagreen@Revolutionsf. Com Subject: [DG] the war machines stir just in case you haven't heard, i've been watching ABC television [ http://www.abcnews.com ] and the US has started a major North American and European (and possibly Russian) military/humanitarian campaign-- OPERATION: ENDURING FREEDOM (strikes against Taliban military targets and air drops of supplies and food to the Afghanis fleeing the major urban centers in Afghanistan). Bush just declared that this was to be the first part of a mission against all terrorist groups. wow. Arjun _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 1:49 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Quantum teleportation yada nada In a message dated 10/7/01 9:20:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, christopher@delta-green.com writes: > Interesting. So how would this look from a dramatic, sci-fi / roleplaying > standpoint? The act of analyzing the complex system [whether it's a gas > cloud or a hapless Delta Green agent] destroys it; the subject is vaporized, > disintegrated, turned into sparkles like a Star Trek transporter? Or does > it just wink out of existence? The online journals are lousy for > Just wink out, and appear somewhere else (ala teleportation). The interesting part is that the matter isn't "transferred" so mcuh as just recreated. So it could be argued that it's murder followed by a cloning. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jim Clunie [jim_clunie@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 9:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; darkmatter-l@oracle.wizards.com Subject: [DG] Immortals [News] http://www.smh.com.au/news/0110/08/text/world18.html Officials compiling a report of births and deaths among Austria's foreigners have found that Chinese residents never seem to die. The Interior Ministry discovered that in the past decade only eight of the estimated 55,000 Chinese living in the country had died, none from natural causes. They had either been murdered or had died in accidents. In these cases, the ministry had been notified only because police saw the body. .. The Fremden Police, which investigates incidents involving foreigners, believes that hundreds, and possibly thousands, of deaths have gone unreported so that other people could take over the passports of the dead. .. One case offers a clue. Last year the body of a Chinese woman was found washed ashore on the Yugoslav Adriatic. Investigators were able to find out only that for years she had been working legally in a Chinese restaurant in Linz, Austria. No-one ever reported her missing. She had no identification papers and her passport was never recovered. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/