From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 1:10 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] time travel >Lemme try again. Imagine for a moment two basketballs (or any sphere/oid). >Superglue a slinky ontop of both basketballs. Move the balls apart. Over >time per gravitation, I argue, the wormhole will act as the slinky. Gravity >/ centripedial/fugal force will be acting as our superglue. This is an interesting thought. Perhaps a magic that involves time travel will have as a primary component any object that was where you want to be when you want to be there. If I come into possession of a baseball used to win a world series in the early seventies, I can use that baseball to travel to a game in which it was used. I follow the four dimensional line that it made through spacetime on it's journey to the present in order to guide my journey to the past. That line is going to carry me through spirals made by the earth's rotation and through the larger ellipses of it's orbit back through to the time of the game. I wouldn't even be subjected to the vacuum of space because the earth's atmosphere surrounds that line for the entire journey, unless the baseball ever spent time in orbit, that is. Even if such a thing isn't possible (and I seriously doubt that it ever could be), it's still a better in-game explanation than any other I've ever heard. Using the same logic, you could use as your primary component of your spell a large stone that has been sitting in place for thousands of years. You would follow it's spiraling elliptical path through space-time back to the time you want to visit. If you get far enough back in time that the stone is about to submerge into the earth or into a volcano or whatever if you continue your journey, then you can stop there and pick a new stone to travel with. A particularly driven investigator could use as his component a knife that is known to have been used as a murder weapon. Follow the knife back in time to just before it was used and now you can see whodunit. If they stop the murder form happening then they will forever be stuck in the new branch of the universe that they've created. All kinds of fun stuff. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 1:14 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: RE: [DG] killing alzis >Yet another option: I postulate the existence of another avatar, in >whose presence Alzis is reduced to a mere mortal. (Sorta like >Kryptonite.) Slain in this condition he is dead, dead, dead, and >you-know-who banished for a eon or two. Well, if you decide that Stephen is just yet another mask of Gnarly, then Gnarly can make new ones ad infinitum. He seems totally mortal because he is. You kill him, he's dead. But he's replaced the next day by a new mask that looks and acts and thinks just like him. But this takes the mystery away. Even if this is how he survives everything, that should never be made apparent to the players. Personally, I really like the idea given earlier today that a new incarnation of him immediately shows up and implies that the characters just killed an innocent but for the debt of a favor he'll fix it all up. That fits in just fine with him being Gnarly. M From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] time travel Nit picks. > to a game in which it was used. I follow the four dimensional line that it Fourth, not four. > made through spacetime on it's journey to the present in order to guide my Anchor, although this is extending the concept differently than I saw it. I was seeing the wormhole for travel as being anchored to its current position in timespace and tunneling, and the mouths of the tunnel would be subject to conventional physics, ie, gravitation, even though the tunnel itself is doing some weird stuff. But this is slightly more interesting tangent for plot application. > Even if such a thing isn't possible (and I seriously doubt that it ever > could be), it's still a better in-game explanation than any other I've ever Hello entanglement and teleportation... paging German physicists *sp*... > Using the same logic, you could use as your primary component of your spell > a large stone that has been sitting in place for thousands of years. You > would follow it's spiraling elliptical path through space-time back to the > time you want to visit. If you get far enough back in time that the stone is > about to submerge into the earth or into a volcano or whatever if you > continue your journey, then you can stop there and pick a new stone to > travel with. The catch being, as I see it, that one is tunneling before travel. That is, okay, I want a 1000 year long tunnel. If the rock was recently deposited on the shore, and quarried and moved in the last two centuries, using such a rock and going back 1000 years, you may find yourself crushed, underneath the ocean. It isn't a HG Wells-oid time machine, where you are in the tunnel, projecting it... either it is, in fact, a point to point tear except on the infintessimal tear level between the two points, or there's just so much Mythosy gook cookin' around the tunnel that one does not play with magical forces and survive, especially dynamic tunnel refabrication. I prefer the point to point tear, although for just pure weirdness, an actual 'tunnel' image complete with 'walls' made of Mythosness really cooks. > A particularly driven investigator could use as his component a knife that > is known to have been used as a murder weapon. Follow the knife back in time > to just before it was used and now you can see whodunit. If they stop the > murder form happening then they will forever be stuck in the new branch of > the universe that they've created. If? By virtue of showing up, they will create a new chronology of events, one that entails wherever they 'go off' the time travel express. Personally, i subscribe to the destructive theory of TT... that is, if I go back and kill my grandfather before he met grandma, thus preventing my birth, the intervening I will continue to exist. The cosmos doesn't tie up ugly ends, it doesn't need neat solutions. the whole of history that I experienced may or may not come to pass, depending on my influence on events, and I will not be born again. I will be very much like that guy in Its A Wonderful Life, sans angel and a way back.Why couldn't I go back and stop myself? Repercussions. Okay, so I pop in and slay my grandfather. I go back again, and kill the prior self that killed my grandfather. Then, presuming I don't interfere again, grandfather may say, "You know what, this neighborhood is too violent." and move out, never meeting the woman who becomes my grandma. Or he may, and they have a kid, and he becomes a judo instructor instead of whatever dad was. Et cet. Et cet. events can be recreated, but they can also be irrevocably fudged. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of andrew john farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:40 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] random mythology while researching the mythology or charlemegne , the sarecens and southern france , in order to tie together an horendous metapot - the mere navigation of which will test player sanity i came arcross the ` origional ` < sic > tale of the orc , at :- http://www.bulfinch.org/legends/legend10.html dismissing the obvious "andromeda and the kraken" borrowed ideas . increasinly the tale started to scream to me DAGON ( take a look at the picture in mid article - now thats an antedeluvian aquatic hominid ) partly as i need i tie in to my deep ones plot which is doing no where - and this tale is even set off the shore or ierland which begs inclusion of the FORMOR myth as deep one which nuge brought up - gotta read the archive to tie that in . i figure - i now got me a link - which will neatly seugeway my southern fance ideas - of CA SMITHS aveignoine and the rennes le chateux / templars / magna mater / cathari mess i have brewing to the DO`s now i see DAGON not as a creature but a title and as the list has conclusivly established the extreme longevity of DO`s . so i put it to you that DAGON is dead , long live DAGON . and thus - i get across another point of my campaign - futility , the idea that what ever they do is doomed - and what better way than to show that it has been done before - and nothing has changed Yours- AJ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 3:46 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] time travel >> If they stop the >> murder form happening then they will forever be stuck in the new branch of >> the universe that they've created. >If? By virtue of showing up, they will create a new chronology of events, Not necessarily. What I really meant to imply with my "if" but utterly failed to mention is the possibility of going back as an observer only. By not manifesting myself at all within the plane of existence that I'm viewing, I keep myself from affecting it and ensure the ability to get "Back To the Future". While the die-hards will argue that by observing I am at the very least absorbing photons with my eyes and therefore affecting the past, I will argue that such things matter little in a universe where the Hounds of Tindalos can emerge from the angles of time to poke nasty holes in you. So, if the investigator uses the knife to travel back to the scene of a crime in a purely observational way, he could return to the present with knowledge of who killed grandpa. This is an explanation, possibly, of psychometry. M From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] X-Com revisited (Spoilers from the start!) You heard what the subject line said. s p o i l e r s p a c e The end of X-Com 2 (Terror from the Deep, with Deep Ones to boot) revolves around discovering T'leth, the ancient alien colony ship which crash landed into Earth on the scale of 65 million years ago. Yes. The discovery's blurb (which is copyright Microprose, so be good and give them props): T'leth the huge Alien colony ship lies embedded in the Sigsbee Deep, in the Gulf of Mexico. At the Heart of the city is an Alien horror, so vile and so powerful that not even death can claim it. In a chamber of Alien metal lies the sleeping form of the great dreamer, the Ultimate Alien. Raising T'leth above the waves will begin his re-animation cycle, and once risen he will be unstoppable. Although not alive and some how not dead the Alien mind controls the Alien army. The weird technology of molecular control connects all Aliens to the One mind and the One mind to all the Aliens. Genetically mutated Alien/human foetuses supply the Alien mind wiht energy and form the link between the ruler and his subjects. The myth of the Ultimate Alien has existed in the hearts and minds of humankind of centuries, the sea has always hidden the ultimate truth. ---- Typos were provided by yours truly. Anyway. I just wanted to say neat, and pass along. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of CelticHound [celtichound@foobox.net] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: killing alzis > Well, if you decide that Stephen is just yet another mask > of Gnarly, then Gnarly can make new ones ad infinitum. > He seems totally mortal because he is. You kill him, he's > dead. But he's replaced the next day by a new mask But that misses the point. What inherent quality does humanity have that causes the GOOs, etc., to fear us so much? (MiB excluded, because that's too obvious) Perhaps Gnarly has a stake in controlling humanity because we can "kill him dead". Not a mask, an avatar, but the GOO his-own-self. Forget all that "the stars aren't right" clap trap - humans are flat out hazardous. Cthulu thinks you're squicky, Marshall. Davide Mana makes Hastur bite his nails. And Mark McFadden, well, let's not say what he does to Azathoth's digestion. BTW, has anyone else received a virus-like message ostensibly from the MiB? I got a blank email with an attachment of IKKKPFIK.EXE from "kenneths (user-2iniil2.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.74.162])" -- CH _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Perfect Murder Good Evening, everyone! I visited a client in jail today [ He's serving time for selling narcotics, aggravated assault and 'supporting prostitution', which basically means that he's a pimp ]. We were not just talking about the case I am defending him in, but as well the tragedy at the WTC. And he told me: "Mr. Huelshoff, I was thinking. If I had ever wanted to kill my wife and lived in NYC, I would have killed her, dumped or buried the body at some place where it will not be looked after and would have claimed that she had planned to visit the WTC that day and that I am missing her! No one would investigate, everybody would share my grief, I would get the money from her life insurance and could marry my girlfriend after a short period of 'mourning'!" This made me think. He might be right. Nobody would dig in a mourning husband's backyard to search for his wife if he would claim that she is another casualty of the WTC. ObDG: Might work for your PCs as well. Someone innocent got killed when they tried to shoot Alzis. They send the person's body to the bottom of the Atlantic in a block of concrete and additionally place his driver's licence near 'Ground Zero' eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder on 10/11/01 5:12 PM, Eckhard Huelshoff at EHuelshoff@t-online.de wrote: > We were not just talking about the case I am defending him in, but as well the > tragedy at the WTC. And he told me: > "Mr. Huelshoff, I was thinking. If I had ever wanted to kill my wife and lived > in NYC, I would have killed her, dumped or buried the body at some place where > it will not be looked after and would have claimed that she had planned to > visit > the WTC that day and that I am missing her! No one would investigate, > everybody > would share my grief, I would get the money from her life insurance and could > marry my girlfriend after a short period of 'mourning'!" I've been thinking about this myself, but from a more Cell A angle. Right next door to the WTC was a federal building (CIA's NY office, Secret Service, FBI etc.) What if you needed to "extract" an agent, or "kill" him for reassignment elsewhere? Good way to loose the paper trail... and speaking of paper trails, you could just stick a note inside the manilla folder which ostensibly contained the incriminating documents you want to quietly dispose of saying "Transferred to NY field 9/9/01, at request of Agent Deceased. Incidentally, this sort of chaos can work both ways. The WTC area contained vaults of drugs, guns and other sundry evidence for Federal cases.... none of which can be prosecuted until all this stuff is dug out. There is a great deal of potential for DG-shenanigins in there. 'Course, I'm just a heartless cynic. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:59 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Perfect Murder two words for the missing evidence: green box. creative accounting aside, this would be a great opportunity for someone add to their collection without undue media attention ( http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/18/fbi.scrutiny/ ). Rus --not a heartless cynic... I have the heart of a young boy. In a jar. On my desk. -----Original Message----- From: Graeme Price [mailto:graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder I've been thinking about this myself, but from a more Cell A angle. Right next door to the WTC was a federal building (CIA's NY office, Secret Service, FBI etc.) What if you needed to "extract" an agent, or "kill" him for reassignment elsewhere? Good way to loose the paper trail... and speaking of paper trails, you could just stick a note inside the manilla folder which ostensibly contained the incriminating documents you want to quietly dispose of saying "Transferred to NY field 9/9/01, at request of Agent Deceased. Incidentally, this sort of chaos can work both ways. The WTC area contained vaults of drugs, guns and other sundry evidence for Federal cases.... none of which can be prosecuted until all this stuff is dug out. There is a great deal of potential for DG-shenanigins in there. 'Course, I'm just a heartless cynic. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:55 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Re: killing alzis >Cthulu thinks you're squicky, Marshall. Davide Mana makes Hastur >bite his nails. And Mark McFadden, well, let's not say what he does >to Azathoth's digestion. Woo hoo!!! Now I gotta getta T-shirt that says "Cthulhu Thinks I'm Squicky". Higher praise was never heaped. :) Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:12 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Perfect Murder I've considered that possibility too, but it has a problem. There was no warning of what was going to happen, and thus no time to plan. And you would have to kill the person and dispose of their body before ANYBODY saw them, but AFTER you heard about the disaster. Assuming you were close enough to New York to make it work, that would mean that by nine o'clock NOBODY can have seen them, and that's kinda tough. Seven o'clock, maybe, but by nine most people are out of the house. I would think that the number of people who wanted to kill somebody who could convincingly make it look like they might have been at the WTC at the right time has gotta be pretty low. On the other hand, anybody with previous knowledge of any similar disaster could easily arrange to keep a person out of sight during the right time. Disasters like these are the perfect cover for disappearances, but only with foreknowledge and that's hard to come by. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:45 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Perfect Murder You know... For a game universe with such a massive amount of magic in it I don't that it's that hard to figure on *somebody* being able to do it... There's a funny thought for a game. The classic cluster-f--k, everybody (MJ-12, DG, Special K, whomever) running into one another as they try to take advantage of this 'perfect opportunity' David -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Gatten, Marshall Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:12 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Perfect Murder I've considered that possibility too, but it has a problem. There was no warning of what was going to happen, and thus no time to plan. And you would have to kill the person and dispose of their body before ANYBODY saw them, but AFTER you heard about the disaster. Assuming you were close enough to New York to make it work, that would mean that by nine o'clock NOBODY can have seen them, and that's kinda tough. Seven o'clock, maybe, but by nine most people are out of the house. I would think that the number of people who wanted to kill somebody who could convincingly make it look like they might have been at the WTC at the right time has gotta be pretty low. On the other hand, anybody with previous knowledge of any similar disaster could easily arrange to keep a person out of sight during the right time. Disasters like these are the perfect cover for disappearances, but only with foreknowledge and that's hard to come by. Marshall _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 6:25 PM To: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: BOUNCE deltagreen@revolutionsf.com: Non-member submission from ["Timothy Byrd" ] >From timbyrd@mediaone.net Thu Oct 11 18:25:12 2001 Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (lsmls02.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.15]) by revolutionsf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27500 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:25:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ICARUS ([65.120.33.50]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f9BNOlZ13087 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <014201c152ab$9b410760$2401a8c0@ICARUS> Reply-To: "Timothy Byrd" From: "Timothy Byrd" To: References: <02af01c1529f$1859caa0$524f08c3@default> Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:22:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 > Suppose the whole WTC thing was done in order to hide a murder? > > Suppoose that, and only that, was, somehow, he point? DG-wise I'm assuming that was indeed the purpose - but it failed. The was one international flight that was supposed to be hijacked, and for some unknown reason (*cough* DG *cough*) the terrorists missed getting on that plane. I hear the person involved (target) is somewhere in the Piedmont, at the moment. -- CH From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 4:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rodemaker" To: > > There's a funny thought for a game. The classic cluster-f--k, everybody > (MJ-12, DG, Special K, whomever) running into one another as they try to > take advantage of this 'perfect opportunity' Or - - - Suppose the whole WTC thing was done in order to hide a murder? Suppoose that, and only that, was, somehow, he point? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 7:58 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder > > On the other hand, anybody with previous knowledge of any similar > disaster could easily arrange to keep a person out of sight during > the right time. Disasters like these are the perfect cover for > disappearances, but only with foreknowledge and that's hard to come > by. > Speaking of precognition. There was a program on British TV a couple of weeks ago now about the immediate aftermath on New Yorkers following the terrorism. One of the people interviewed was a guy talking about an artist friend of his - a sculptor - who was missing, presumed dead. Strangely, his work had always been concerned with things like 'planes' and 'fire'. One of his pieces had apparently been a figure of a pilot with planes crashing into him. -- Julian Breen _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:38 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Breen" > Speaking of precognition. > > There was a program on British TV a couple of weeks ago now about the > immediate aftermath on New Yorkers following the terrorism. > > One of the people interviewed was a guy talking about an artist friend > of his - a sculptor - who was missing, presumed dead. Strangely, his > work had always been concerned with things like 'planes' and 'fire'. > > One of his pieces had apparently been a figure of a pilot with planes > crashing into him. I was going through the archives and found this questionnaire from AOL. It was part of the hype pimping 'Pearl Harbor', but the questions weren't about the past but the future. Friday, May 25, 2001 1:56 PM Could Pearl Harbor happen again? --Yes, look at the attack on the U.S.S. Cole. --No, our defense system can identify a foreign invasion before it becomes a real threat. If the United States were to suffer an attack like Pearl Harbor, would America declare war? --Yes. You can't attack the United States and get away with it. --It's hard to believe we would enter a war. Espionage played a key role in the attack on Pearl Harbor. Does our open society place our citizens and military under unnecessary risk? --Yes, in some cases our individual rights must be sacrificed for the greater good. --No, truly important information is still adequately protected. --Possibly, but that risk is well worth all of the benefits of our free society. You just know I'm angling towards a grand conspiracy interp, so here goes: Colin Powell and Alexander Haig were both on the board of AOL prior to accepting positions in the new administration. What the hell were they doing on the board of AOL rather than on the board of some defense corporation? Maybe they just liked the neighborhood in Dulles, VA. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the data gathered by AOL questionnaires. Advertising people used to watch 'Family Feud' religiously because the point of the show was to match answers with the majority of the audience, not to find witty or original answers. Incidentally, the AOL questions were from the pop-up on the login screen, so everyone on AOL saw it, not just people interested in a movie about Pearl Harbor. After the ugly election fiasco Dubya wasn't doing very well in the image department. Editorial cartoons and opening monologues had settled on him being mentally deficient, morally and ethically lax and a willing tool of the usual suspects. Conspiracy theory aside, it was plain that the spin doctors were looking for some circumstance that would allow him to look "presidential." The WTC was bought by the new owners 7 months before 9/11 and insured to a fare-thee-well. The "Wag the WTC" website, which chronicled some discrepancies in reporting and suspicious players in the aftermath is no longer online, although the link to it from Rumor Mill News is still there. Doesn't getting drunk at a titty bar the night before a suicide mission inspired by religious fanaticism seem a little incongruous? It makes fodder for comments about hypocrisy, but it doesn't really fit the profile of someone willing to slam an airliner into a building for the glory of Allah, does it? Isn't it interesting that the President's brother is governor of the state with the contested election returns and the flight school that trained some of the suicide pilots? Back when the 'Wag the WTC' site was up there was a lot of analysis of the explosions and the collapse of the two towers. The first plane struck squarely on target and delivered it's load of flaming fuel directly into the building. The second plane struck off-center and most of the flaming fuel sprayed out of the side to the right of the entry point. The official reason for the collapse of the towers was the steel support structure softening in the heat of the fuel fire. This is conceivable for the first strike, but not for the second. Both towers collapsed just as if they were being taken down by a controlled demolition, pancaking down in a straight descent. The company that is investigating the rubble to determine the cause is a company that specializes in building demolitions. That seems pretty reasonable until you consider that they were also the *private* company that investigated the Oklahoma City bombing and produced findings that are still disputed by other experts. The problem with any of this theorizing is that it depends on the existence of some domestic cabal that is willing to throw away thousands of citizen's lives like a used Kleenex. I suppose that's why I'd only do this sort of speculation in a Mythos milieu. Even my misanthropic view of the powers that be has it's limits. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of CelticHound [celtichound@foobox.net] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:24 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder > Suppose the whole WTC thing was done in order to hide a murder? > > Suppoose that, and only that, was, somehow, he point? DG-wise I'm assuming that was indeed the purpose - but it failed. The was one international flight that was supposed to be hijacked, and for some unknown reason (*cough* DG *cough*) the terrorists missed getting on that plane. I hear the person involved (target) is somewhere in the Piedmont, at the moment. -- CH _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bill Nichols [themaninawhitecar@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories --- The Lizard King wrote: > You just know I'm angling towards a grand > conspiracy interp, so here goes: > The problem with any of this theorizing is > that it depends on the existence > of some domestic cabal that is willing to throw > away thousands of citizen's > lives like a used Kleenex. I suppose that's why > I'd only do this sort of > speculation in a Mythos milieu. Even my > misanthropic view of the powers that > be has it's limits. One of the things I thought of after the events of September 11th was the short-lived X-Files spinoff "The Lone Gunmen," which featured an episode in which a group of government officials (no details were provided as to which agency, if any, they worked for, as I recall) had planted a remote control device on board a commercial jet and tried to fly it into a skyscraper. The reason? In the post Cold War-era, there were no enemies, and therefore not enough incentive to spend lots of $ on defense. By making it look like a terrorist group had done this, a new enemy would be perceived, and thus there would be a reason to increase defense spending. Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [chaucerwatch23@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] crawling from the wreckage Howdy folks--SuperDave here. Just a quick message, in case anyone's been trying to contact me offlist. I've moved to a bigger apartment recently, and although I was supposed to get my cable internet reconnected the same day, I am still offline and it looks like it'll stay that way for at least another week. Technical difficulties. My office computer is also offline, for entirely unrelated technical difficulties. One might almost think it's a conspiracy... So I'm resurrecting this old email address in the interim, but my ability to get to a computer with net access is sporadic, to say the least. Anyway, I'll try to make an announcement about the 2nd Challenge from Beyond (ond, ond, ond...) within the next few days--hopefully, we won't have to start late. Dave PS: Agent Ethan, the package arrived safely. Many thanks. My Squaddies are killing Sectoids right and left. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:25 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] crawling from the wreckage Dave Farnell wrote: > > PS: Agent Ethan, the package arrived safely. Many thanks. My Squaddies > are killing Sectoids right and left. God, I love X-Com. Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs, Captain of The Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man, El Jefe of Evil Leapers ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 11:38 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] crawling from the wreckage > > PS: Agent Ethan, the package arrived safely. Many thanks. My Squaddies > > are killing Sectoids right and left. > God, I love X-Com. 2's better for the HPL references. They go outright with the entry on.. uh.. the floating brains-quids things. and there's the T'leth entry I emailed earlier. X-Com as Delta Green? =p _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [chaucerwatch23@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 1:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] crawling from the wreckage --- talaphid wrote: > X-Com as Delta Green? I've been dreaming of that for years. X-Com needs a full remake with Men in Black added as a new kind of personnel--but more topical to this list, the basic structure, or plot, lends itself quite well to a Delta Green version. Take some of Will Timmin's EndTimes ideas (sorry, I don't have the URL handy on this public machine I'm using), combine them with the X-Com story, and use an updated engine. It would be tres cool--we could even have a multiplayer version with the other players controlling MJ-12, GRU-SV8, PISCES, Kurotokage, various cults, and, for the truly masochistic player, Saucerwatch! Dave who hasn't played a computer game for more than a year, but is falling in love with X-Com all over again... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:33 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > > The problem with any of this theorizing is that it depends on the existence > of some domestic cabal that is willing to throw away thousands of citizen's > lives like a used Kleenex. I suppose that's why I'd only do this sort of > speculation in a Mythos milieu. Even my misanthropic view of the powers that > be has it's limits. Well, the main beneficaries are "obviously" the Israel lobby, since this has absolutely cemented the USA as an ally of Israel, a commitment that was slipping. But there were loads of Jews in the towers. Hence, of course, the rumors about 4000 Jews not turning up to work that morning, etc. You don't want to take any of this seriously. But it's widely believed in the Moslem world, where the USA is seen as being controlled by Jewish financiers, lawyers, media cabals, and politicians. ---- **** ---- For myself, I have to say that I don't believe any conspiracy theories, even at the level of playful-DG-speculation. This was such a total surprise. It wasn't home-grown. My reading is that the fundamentalists want to provoke an over-reaction from the US which will, in turn, trigger a revolution in Saudi Arabia and the UAE and put them in power in the Holy Places. At that point they cut off the oil, and try to economically cripple America or even break it up, thus destroying the mainstay of what is (in their view) a Jewish-controlled world financial and military empire. --- *** --- But the US is not overreacting. Therefore if my speculation is correct, there will be furthur *major* outrages, designed to provoke the US into absolutely unrestrained strikes at Islamic countries. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jessthecatasc@eircom.net Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 3:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] random mythology where - and > this tale is even set off the shore or ierland which begs inclusion of the > FORMOR myth as deep one which nuge brought up - gotta read the archive to > tie that in . Fomor is specifically off the Coast of Sligo. However, legends I've encountered state that The Tutha De Dannan (Little People; Aka the Serpent People) not only drove them out of Banba (olde Ireland), but smote all those of congress - a cull of the Hybrids. So, Bar Brian Cowen and the Singing Frogs in Meath, we're blissfully aquatoid free. Hope that doesn't kill your plans. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 4:36 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Good Morning. Andy Robertson schrieb: [snip] > Well, the main beneficaries are "obviously" the Israel lobby, since this has > absolutely cemented the USA as an ally of Israel, a commitment that was > slipping. > > But there were loads of Jews in the towers. Hence, of course, the rumors > about 4000 Jews not turning up to work that morning, etc. > > You don't want to take any of this seriously. But it's widely believed in > the Moslem world, where the USA is seen as being controlled by Jewish > financiers, lawyers, media cabals, and politicians. Good point. Over here in Germany the 'protests for peace' have already begun. But from two sides actually: First of all there are the 'usual suspects': The Peace Movement, most of them relics from the early 80s or even earlier - the founding generation of the Green movement, actually -, some Christian organisations, and followers of other left-wing groups or parties like the PDS [which has been the ruling SED in the years of the GDR] or the MLPD [ Marxistisch-Leninistische Partei Deutschlands ], just to name a few. These groups combine their activities, together they organise 'Peace Marches' through German cities and so on. What they do have in common is that they 'dislike' [ which is a very euphemistic expression ] American activities in the world and that they support the Palestinians in their fight against Israel. I've witnessed such a demonstration held in Munich a couple of days ago and actually I was both shocked and disgusted by the speeches held. It was a mix of blaiming it on the victims ["Rember what THEY did in Vietnam and Hiroshima!" Yeah right, tell that to the orphan of a 24year janitor ] and conspiracy theories. May I quote again: "Who tell us that those crimes were not commited by Muslim freedom fighters [ sic! ] but by those who profit from war!? The Economic terrorists on Wall Street!?" My girlfriend actually had to stop me from kicking asses! But to much surprise, other groups expressed their wish for peace. Actually the first protest against the American strikes came from them: The Far Right, especially the NPD, led by former RAF-terrorist [ sic! ] and lawyer [ sic!! ] Günther Mahler. They have the following opinion: The assault on WTC [ Mahler called it "Independence Day 'live'" on his homepage ] might have been the deed of Muslim freedom fighters. This would be okay, since it were an act of self defence againt both the American Imperialism and the Jewish fight for world domination, which is basically the same in their logic. But what they *really* think is that the whole thing might have been planned and performed by Mossad and CIA to have a reason to start a war on the Islamic world and everybody else who dislikes the "American/Jewish way of Life". So far, so horrible. But do you see something: In this case both the far left and the far right share the same ideas!! It's weird, isn't it? ObDG: Karotechia might easily use leftwing groups for their purposes. eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 5:07 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories -----Original Message----- From: Eckhard Huelshoff > But do you see something: In this case both the far left and the far right share > the same ideas!! > It's weird, isn't it? It's not weird. You're simply neglecting the fact that extremists have a lot in common. They're complete assholes full of so much shit that they can't help spewing it all over themselves. Shit is shit and it really doesn't matter if it comes from the far left or far right. No matter what color it is, shit stinks all the same. > ObDG: Karotechia might easily use leftwing groups for their purposes. I was thinking that the Cult Of Trancendance might be a better culprit for using left leaning extremists to coincide with the Karotechia's activities. I'm sure Nyarlathotep (who directs both cults) could pull this off easily. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 5:01 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eckhard Huelshoff" >>These groups combine their activities, together they organise >>'Peace Marches' through German cities and so on. What they do >>have in common is that they 'dislike' [ which is a very euphemistic expression ] >>American activities in the world and that they support the Palestinians >>in their fight against Israel. I've witnessed such a demonstration held in >>Munich a couple of days ago and actually I was both shocked and >>disgusted by the speeches held. A lot of stuff crawling out from under the rocks, both left and right wing. A lot of masks being ripped off, and some surprises. At least the far right never claimed to be anything but jew-haters. It has long seemed obvious to me that the driving force behind much of the "Far Left" was an equally deep, visceral, hatred (for America, for "the West", and, in some extreme cases, for white people *qua* white people) flourishing under the disguise of being an altruistic political movement. I really believe some of these people welcomed the WTC attack **because** it killed so many Americans. I mean, I can honestly say I am not surprised in their current reaction. However, speaking as a psitaccostically right-wing guy, I think they are a pretty small minority. Maybe one good effect of the attack will be to split them off from sensible left-wingers and expose their real agenda. Um, um. ObDG. Well, I sort of agree with the Mib. The Arab world **does** see this as being primarily about the Jews and about Israel. Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? I think I have heard that the Nazis were pretty much neutral on Islam: they did not want to become Islamic, but they considered it a warrior culture, anti-Jewish, and to be respected and left alone. Does anyone have any historical links on this? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 6:57 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Greetings. This list has already discussed in the past what I could call "the sociology of the conspiracy". I'll take my cue from a pair of phrases and start ranting now, so you've been warned. Andy wrote.... > > You don't want to take any of this seriously. And Eckhard added >actually I was both shocked and disgusted by the speeches held. It was a >mix of >blaiming it on the victims [snip] and conspiracy theories. Something's happening out there. I saw it developing in the past thirty days and was initially quaintly amused, then started worrying. What's happening is, conspiracy theory is moving into the mainstream. Confronted with a pretty uniform media information campaign - there's a standard version of the facts and nobody on the telly seems to be willing to contradict that, not even Bin Laden - members of the public at large are building their own interpretations. And they are not those loonies that play Delta Green and have a file about cattle mutilations handy when their friends come visiting. It's amateurs. Oh, ok, I know, the X-files and all that made Roswell a hip chatting subject to liven an intellectualoid social gathering, and we all saw those fringe books we found second-hand in back alley shops being reprinted and sold by the Monthly Book Club. Oliver Stone and things like that. We can argue forever about the conspiratorial fad of the '90s acting as the perfect fertilizer for the current phenomenon. A few nights back a young woman - a pretty straight-headed specimen, the kind whose main worry used to be her office pecking order and the Turin Opera programme - tried to convince me that "It can't be so simple". She went on for a while, basically describing a risible CIA-fueled plot to destroy the Twin Towers in order to get a casus belli going and kick some Afghan ass. Call me an elitist bastard that can't just concentrate on a woman's cleavage but has to mess with her brain, too, but I tried to point out a few holes in her reasoning, and correct the aim of her rants. It was useless. Like many other people out there, my friend took the little we got from the TV and the papers, mixed the lot and looked for an angle that would let her to nail the blame on the Yanks. Not that it's hard. The USA Govt. built a generally hateful international persona (sorry, but let's be honest) and some fucker with tons of dough decided he had good enough reason to kill civilians (making more money in the process). Anyone who ever saw a western knows that when you're the fastest gun in the west, all sorts of creeps will come around to make trouble and prove they're better than you. And yes, much of the stuff we get from GWB and pals is unashamed propaganda, and a lot of governments around the world will probably try and use the current Strike Against Terror as a smoke screen behind which hiding some less-than-democratic house cleanings. But this "broken" explanation is proving too commonplace, too down to earth. The new conspiracy guys out there want a monolithic theory explaining _everything_. They're calling in the CIA, the NSA (the NSA?!), the armaments lobby, the Jews, the Palestinians and whatever else will help them build a single, all-encompassing case that points the blame back to Uncle Sam. Now, all in all, given my general look-out on the world at large, the growth of the conspiracy-minded minority could be a positive phenomenon. Only it is not. Reasonable (or unreasonable) doubts and healthy mistrust of any given Truth Package that's handed us down from the high-ups is good, helps keeping things in perspective and the mind-blades sharp. So I normally say "Yes, go on!" Let's doubt what the TV news told us, let's look for the hidden profiteers, let's ask nasty questions. But that's not what's happening here. These conspiracy amateurs are not using their doubts to investigate the truth. They are only using a set of prefabricated media tools to reinforce a prefabricated, alternative but equally bogus Truth Package, that again is being handed down and is supposed to be accepted unquestioningly. So - are They using conspiracy awareness as a new tool to reinforce the status quo? If reality is what you get away with, have they found a way of implementing a new set of lies for those curious/smart enough to make questions, but not paranoid/psychotic enough to look for their own answers? The whole is worrying me. Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:16 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Modern-era slavery Greetings from Prague, everyone, No Mythos activity was detected in either Rostock, Berlin, Dresden, Cottbus or Prague. The only thing that came even close was a obvious Karotechia Bauer I met in Prague. An Italian Nazi who dealt in WWII odds and end and could not hold his liquor. Didn't speak to the guy, but my friend who had seen him before pointed him out to me. Anywhoo, yesterday when I was preparing for a night of bad TV (South Park and Darkman II) I happened to watch a documentary about a Russian organization called "Angel" which was dedicated to helping Russian and other IVY Republic women who had ended up as slaves abroad return to their homes. Kudos to them. It seems like there is a big business in several countries where women are tricked to travel, then liberated of their passports and forced to do whatever their new masters want. If they are lucky, they become waitresses in German bars for no wages. If unlucky, they are sold to brothels. Evil business, which is made possible by the fact that there are a number of legal loopholes which make the business safe to the criminals. There is, however, an ObDG in this. A cult could use the services of the slavers to get victims to sacrifice. Hastur and Y'glonac also came to mind. Also, DG could be involved through a "punitive strike" dealt by some agency against the slavers (since they can often not be prosecuted), something like in the Ian Fleming short story "For Your Eyes Only". Jussi Marttila _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jessthecatasc@eircom.net Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 3:25 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: RE: [DG] killing alzis KEEPERS COMPANION SPOILERS > Well, if you decide that Stephen is just yet another mask of Gnarly, Isn't the Dagger of Thoth able to utterly destroy an Avatar of Nyarly? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:23 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" > So - are They using conspiracy awareness as a new tool to reinforce the > status quo? > If reality is what you get away with, have they found a way of implementing > a new set of lies for those curious/smart enough to make questions, but not > paranoid/psychotic enough to look for their own answers? Not in the UK, or, I think, very much in the USA . Here, the standard "Truth package" is still pretty much accepted. Indeed, I am not sure what I would wish to replace it with. But there is also a feeling that things have somehow broken loose from their moorings. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:11 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Modern-era slavery << It seems like there is a big business in several countries where women are tricked to travel, then liberated of their passports and forced to do whatever their new masters want. If they are lucky, they become waitresses in German bars for no wages. If unlucky, they are sold to brothels. Evil business, which is made possible by the fact that there are a number of legal loopholes which make the business safe to the criminals. >> Indeed, this is a big business. Women are also shipped out of the former USSR (Romania, Moldova, and Ukraine) to the US, among other countries. DATELINE, I think, ran a special on it last year. A similar trend occurs in Japan, where women are hired to be night-club companions for overstressed businessmen. The girls pretend -- for the duration of the guy's stay in the bar -- to be their "best" friends -- ie, dancing, drinking, talking. If I remember correctly, it usually doesn't go beyond sex. There was an American (I wanna say an airline stewardess) who did this as a night job and went missing. Aum Shinrikyo connection? Hmm... Definitely Hastur territory, with the blending of reality. Perhaps N-hotep also, but he's overused (in my opinion) and applied to any little scheme. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of John Daly [jdaly_iv@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:27 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Modern-era slavery --- Jussi Marttila wrote: > Greetings from Prague, everyone, > > No Mythos activity was detected in either Rostock, > Berlin, Dresden, Cottbus > or Prague. The only thing that came even close was a > obvious Karotechia > Bauer I met in Prague. An Italian Nazi who dealt in > WWII odds and end and > could not hold his liquor. Didn't speak to the guy, > but my friend who had > seen him before pointed him out to me. Agents are being dispatched to watch the Nazi b@st@rd and eliminate him if necessary. ;) > > Anywhoo, yesterday when I was preparing for a night > of bad TV (South Park > and Darkman II) I happened to watch a documentary > about a Russian > organization called "Angel" which was dedicated to > helping Russian and other > IVY Republic women who had ended up as slaves abroad > return to their homes. > Kudos to them. > > It seems like there is a big business in several > countries where women are > tricked to travel, then liberated of their passports > and forced to do > whatever their new masters want. If they are lucky, > they become waitresses > in German bars for no wages. If unlucky, they are > sold to brothels. Evil > business, which is made possible by the fact that > there are a number of > legal loopholes which make the business safe to the > criminals. In the US, it seems to be with predominantly Asian victims: the inability to speak the language and other issues keep the victims locked into their cycle. Not to mention the guys with guns. But it does exist in other countries: I'm pretty sure Pacific Rim area women find their ways to certain Middle East countries where they are usually employed as maids (frequently raped by the owners or the owner's sons) and when they flee the situation, the "owners" still retain the passports. > > There is, however, an ObDG in this. A cult could use > the services of the > slavers to get victims to sacrifice. Hastur and > Y'glonac also came to mind. > Also, DG could be involved through a "punitive > strike" dealt by some agency > against the slavers (since they can often not be > prosecuted), something like > in the Ian Fleming short story "For Your Eyes Only". > Ah, the tradtional DG retalitory strike. Just make sure your assets are deniable. John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/