From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:53 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories <<< Doesn't getting drunk at a titty bar the night before a suicide mission inspired by religious fanaticism seem a little incongruous? It makes fodder for comments about hypocrisy, but it doesn't really fit the profile of someone willing to slam an airliner into a building for the glory of Allah, does it?>>> Not really... I could see it as either a 'view of what is to come' (seven virgins per martyr and all that) or, more likely, evidence of the decadence and godlessness of the American way of life... a good thing to give your life in destroying. <<< The company that is investigating the rubble to determine the cause is a company that specializes in building demolitions. That seems pretty reasonable until you consider that they were also the *private* company that investigated the Oklahoma City bombing and produced findings that are still disputed by other experts.>>> This does raise an eyebrow.. if only because someone *could* control the technical analysis of both events. <<< The problem with any of this theorizing is that it depends on the existence of some domestic cabal that is willing to throw away thousands of citizen's lives like a used Kleenex. I suppose that's why I'd only do this sort of speculation in a Mythos milieu. Even my misanthropic view of the powers that be has it's limits.>>> In Mythos terms, I like the idea of competing cabals. Various government and corporate powers, each competing to increase their influence and direct circumstances towards an environment they find favorable. Occasionally working together; not in concert at a strategic level but tactical. As to killing citizens... one of the theories I heard about Oklahoma: designed and implemented by ATF and FBI working in concert with the goal of new legislation for, and popular approval of, fighting domestic terrorism. The idea would be to curtail civil liberties to the point 1984 looked like a free love commune. I never subscribed to that theory in Real Life, but I don't think any cabal, motivated by High Ideals, would balk at killing a few thousand (see: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Branch Dividians, Jonestown, Osama, et. al. ad. infinitum.). Rus "Now let's all repeat the non-conformist oath." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:49 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] crawling from the wreckage Dave Farnell wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > --- talaphid wrote: > > X-Com as Delta Green? > > I've been dreaming of that for years. X-Com needs a full remake with Men > in Black added as a new kind of personnel--but more topical to this list, > the basic structure, or plot, lends itself quite well to a Delta Green > version. Take some of Will Timmin's EndTimes ideas (sorry, I don't have > the URL handy on this public machine I'm using), combine them with the > X-Com story, and use an updated engine. It would be tres cool--we could > even have a multiplayer version with the other players controlling MJ-12, > GRU-SV8, PISCES, Kurotokage, various cults, and, for the truly > masochistic player, Saucerwatch! heh, someone stubled on this already. My friends are finishing preparing for publishing a RPG system (called 'ideefixe') that deal with these themes. Main theme: there was war with aliens (but opinion who won varies), there are mysterious men in black, technototalitarism as we start to know it. The year is 2045 but it looks more than 2010s and noody is sure why. The core of the rulebook will be the structures of conspiracies within conspiracies :-). Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:15 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: Islamic special K (was: RE: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories) IIRC, The Odessa File mentioned ex-SS types working as military advisors for the Egyptian government fighting Israel during the six day war. Also I thought there was some real-world connection there (brain hurts.. must try to remember...) And, while ole Narly might make too many appearances, having the special K fund some anti-Israel groups seems perfectly in story. Having same groups divert some of the funds seems to fit as well, as does having the groups go off on suicide missions. So, for a story, it could be a few Bauer went off and took some initiative, or you could have the Karotechia using Islam as a cover to ignite anti-Israel sentiment. (in Real Life, if that was the goal, WTC was a serious bollocks-up.. but I agree with MiB, I think Osama and friends are looking to control the middle east via revolution... they are trying to use us to start the revolution). -----Original Message----- From: Andy Robertson [mailto:andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 6:01 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Well, I sort of agree with the Mib. The Arab world **does** see this as being primarily about the Jews and about Israel. Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? I think I have heard that the Nazis were pretty much neutral on Islam: they did not want to become Islamic, but they considered it a warrior culture, anti-Jewish, and to be respected and left alone. Does anyone have any historical links on this? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Charles Ripper [yeroshka7@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 1:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories >From: "The Lizard King" > > The problem with any of this theorizing is that it depends on the >existence >of some domestic cabal that is willing to throw away thousands of citizen's >lives like a used Kleenex. I suppose that's why I'd only do this sort of >speculation in a Mythos milieu. Even my misanthropic view of the powers >that >be has it's limits. > Fools! All of you! It has been established that Nyarlathotep is behind this, in his insidious form of Bert! (For the 2 of you that haven't seen it: http://www.lauracam.net/bert/bert029.htm) On a more serious note, one of the reasons that these conspiracy theories really don't have much weigh is that they try to force that point that the US is behind the 9/11 incident. The problem: there are easier ways to start a war. I have two suggestions for the culprits: 1 The Mi-go. They've discovered the Majestic programs that are intended to fight back, and they decided to show Mj-12 that having the Report doesn't give them absolute knowledge of threats. It only covers the military. That's why they used civilian jets. 2 China. After the '93 WTC bombing, any terrorist attack on the WTC would imediately be linked back to Osama bin Laden. The US reaction to the events have been sane and logical and predictable. Osama attacks, US goes after. Why would China want that? Well, there's this little nuclear threat right across the border between Pakistan and India that bothers them. Remember, Kashmir also borders China. Then there is the threat that Muslim raiders pose to the Xinjiang region. There has been sufficient unrest in the province ever since China has forced the migration of Han Chinese into the area, and the last thing they need is a revolt that can only be repressed by armed intervention. The last thing China wants is to go back to those years right after Tiananmen, which disrupted their growth and international prestige. They need something done, so why not convince their rivals, the Americans, to do the job for them? The US has resisted because the region is a political mess and there is no real reason for the US to go there. 9/11 has changed that. It wouldn't be difficult to recruit Afghani terrorists, either. Afghanistan also borders on China at the Xinjiang region, and the Taliban is supported by Pakistan who have received support from China. If you want to go down this path, mind control isn't out of the question, either, and you can tie in the Nepal royal family massacre as a test-run of their mind-control techniques. So you have the US in a land war in Asia, perhaps avoiding a world-wide recession by increased defense spending, but increased spending in the US nevertheless, which was the downfall of the USSR. China gets to keep its hands clean, and side with the winners. If the US wastes its strength in Afghanistan and has to pull out, China is in a position to sweep in and pick up the pieces. No more instability on the borderlands while Tibet and Xinjiang get developed. After all, when the two western provinces are developed, they will no longer be buffer states, and will need buffer states to protect them. >From: "Andy Robertson" >Not in the UK, or, I think, very much in the USA . Here, the standard >"Truth package" is still pretty much accepted. Apparently you only talk to the rational US citizens. There is a quiet minority that has automatically said that this is a US gov't conspiracy designed to bring about martial law. Conspiracy theory is a religion, you know, full of fire and brimstone, always talking about the end of the world and asking if you are prepared. Everything is a sign in the great struggle of the believers against the great Satan-run government. Charles _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 12:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories The solution!! http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/bert.htm The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew James [andrew_jamesdg@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Character Comments Every now and again even the most experienced players say the stupedist things in game. At GenCon UK 2001 this year Agent Phil Ward displayed just such a temporary mental aberation. (Net you thoughht I had forgotten about this hadn't you Phil). I had the 'pleasure' to DM for Phil Wrd in the Delta Green 18+ tournament 'In Aeternum', in which the palyers are experienced PISCES agents.. During the course of the adventure the party was discussing kidnapping one of the major bad guys, when phil said in character.... "We can't just disapeer him, just because he MIGHT cause the end of the world" I think that for the entertainment of all DM's out there that such comments should be posted on this list as light relief. And if any players out there want to confess to such comments all the better Agent Andrew PISCES Agent #007 ===== "Sergent, Chap with wings, Three rounds Rapid" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew James [andrew_jamesdg@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories --- Andy Robertson wrote: > The solution!! > > http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/bert.htm > > Try again on that URL please It doesn't seem to work. Agent Andrew PISCES Agent #007 ===== "Sergent, Chap with wings, Three rounds Rapid" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:51 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories >Conspiracy theory is a religion, you >know, full of fire and brimstone, always talking about the end of the >world and asking if you are prepared. Everything is a sign in the >great struggle of the believers against the great Satan-run government. Sheesh. You say that like it's a bad thing. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after me, ya know. -Marshall (who, for the humor-challenged, is kidding here) From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 5:40 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Character Comments My players are frequently seperated, leading up to friendly-fire gunfights (why they think ghouls would have access to M-16s is beyond me) and, of course, whenever we use the old technique of stealing, they often forego stealth in favor of bigger guns. They found out early bringing an M-16 to a musuem heist wasn't wise From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 4:27 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories http://www.enterprisemission.com/tower2.htm talking about loonies . . . _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Ewing [ambjpe@gis.net] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 7:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Branding It seems that our favorite non-existent country is launching itself as a brand, in an obvious effort to convince us that they *do* exist: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/articles/vanham0901.html -- Jeff Ewing, ambjpe@gis.net on 10/12/2001 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 9:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories On 12 October 2001, Glove Cleaner "Andy Robertson" pointed out: >The solution!! > >http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/bert.htm Congratulations on some excellent intelligence analysis! I always knew there was something suspiscious about Bert! I guess it was too tempting when Bin Laden invited him to "embrace the Dark Side"! Shortly after a B-2 Spirit stealth bomber launched from an Air Force Base in Missouri, headed for Sesame Street, Sesame Street disavowed all knowledge of Bert's actions. Although hawks in the Pentagon insisted that Sesame Street was "just a puppet regime", intervention by British PM Tony Blair, and by Gerry Anderson, convinced Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld that many puppets "are on our side". (Anderson is said to have specifically mentioned Captain Scarlet, who, many times at the cost of his own life, frequently prevented disasters of the magnitude of the WTC incident.) The bomber was recalled, and, in a later statement, a White House spokesperson read a statement that "our conflict is with Bernie, not with Muppetdom... Bernie's standing shoulder to shoulder with the Evil One shows that he has stepped outside the bounds of normal Muppet conduct..." She added that, to emphasize the friendship of the US with the Muppets of Sesame Street, B-2 bombers would soon begin airdropping large numbers of letters of the alphabet. Bert's pal Ernie could not be reached for comment. Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jessthecatasc@eircom.net Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 3:23 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] killing alzis > Yet another option: I postulate the existence of another avatar, in > whose presence Alzis is reduced to a mere mortal. (Sorta like > Kryptonite.) Slain in this condition he is dead, dead, dead, and > you-know-who banished for a eon or two. > > Otherwise, I find Alzis too D&D. Theres a rather cool power in Hunter: technically unobtainable, still, I let one of my players have it, since he likes playing fundamentalist Preachers. To wit, Payback: invalidates a supernaturals immunity or a power (one of at a time). In effect, he acts like a human version of Tether Hound. Rather amusing if thats the one thing ALzis hasnt forseen. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Character Comments Andrew James wrote: > > "Sergent, Chap with wings, Three rounds Rapid" Philistine. The quote is; "Jenkins! - Chap with wings there. Five rounds rapid" Sheesh! :-) Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs, Captain of The Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man, El Jefe of Evil Leapers ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 12:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories You're simply neglecting the fact that extremists have a >lot in common. They're complete assholes full of so much shit that they >can't help spewing it all over themselves. Shit is shit and it really >doesn't matter if it comes from the far left or far right. No matter >what color it is, shit stinks all the same. (blinks) Dude, can I quote you on that? I think that sums it all up perfectly. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 4:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: RE: [DG] killing alzis Gott in Himmel! I think that this is one of the *perfect* ways to use Alzis: No 'misfires', no overt avoidance, just really creepy Mythos stuff. Anyone else think this idea is far more Alzis? I mean, he doesn't do things, they just happen - and they always turn out to help him and punish those who seek to harm him. Plus, using this, he'd never be vulnerable to bullets. For physical attacks you could just have them go to punch him and when they hit him, they find they've just hit a mirror. The guys blink, and find themselves in a public toilet somewhere on the other side of town. If they head back to where they met Alzis he's either not there, or if it's the club, he acts like nothing's happened. As for bombs and stuff, I think that's fairly well documented. My tiny addition to the spooky things that live under the bed. Voidchaser. >Another alternative concerning the "misfiring idea": A long, long time ago one >of my players' PCs, a tough U.S. Marshal, emptied his gun into Alzis. Or so he >thought. Alzis was totally unharmed lacking even the slightest scratch. There >weren't even holes in the wall behind Alzis. And - to the PCs confusion - >he could neither find the bullets nor the cartridges. >But surprise turned into horror, when he was arrested for the murder of his wife >because his wife was obviously killed by shots from his weapon. > >eckhard > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 12:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > > Congratulations on some excellent intelligence analysis! I always knew > there was something suspiscious about Bert! I guess it was too tempting > when Bin Laden invited him to "embrace the Dark Side"! Laugh away, laugh away. But there is something very sinister about, for example, the thought of a **real** cookie monster. These things are only a lickety-spit away from Toons, and we all know what evil Toons are. The Glove cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 4:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] killing alzis I'm not sure something like this is necessary. If the investigators repeatedly try to kill Alzis and nuke the club(possibly literally? 'Those damn terrorists' makes a great cover story) then he's not going to do the D&D villain bit, hang around, and keep setting up ridiculously convoluted plots to exact revenge. Alzis simply doesn't care. If the investigators start to irritate him, he'd just wander somewhere else like Egypt and work on his plans over there. When the investigators have cooled down/died/gone mad from completely unrelated incidents, he'll come back and pick up where he left off. Don't forget, Alzis is never bored. Voidchaser. > Yet another option: I postulate the existence of another avatar, in >whose presence Alzis is reduced to a mere mortal. (Sorta like >Kryptonite.) Slain in this condition he is dead, dead, dead, and >you-know-who banished for a eon or two. > >Otherwise, I find Alzis too D&D. > >-- CH > > > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 8:16 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories The Lizard King writes > > Doesn't getting drunk at a titty bar the night before a suicide mission >inspired by religious fanaticism seem a little incongruous? It makes fodder >for comments about hypocrisy, but it doesn't really fit the profile of >someone willing to slam an airliner into a building for the glory of Allah, >does it? You know, that has always been a thought in my mind too. There was also some claims recently that it was only the pilots of the planes that knew of the suicide mission. Evidence of suicide notes to their families has been found but such no evidence from any of the 'hired muscle' keeping the passengers down. -- Julian Breen _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 8:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Islamic special K (was: RE: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories) > >Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? > I believe so. Galt has acted as a military advisor in the past to Arab nations (like other Odessa members) and is known to fund extremist groups. >I think I have heard that the Nazis were pretty much neutral on Islam: they >did not want to become Islamic, but they considered it a warrior culture, >anti-Jewish, and to be respected and left alone. Does anyone have any >historical links on this? > > No, but it sounds like something that Nazi propaganda would state. After all, how else are you going to get cheap manual labour amongst the natives for unearthing Wondrous Ancient Aftefacts. Seriously though, given Nazi ideology, I think that this would be said to pacify Islamic nations initially, and to gain the support. You can only fight a war on so many fronts. If we had lost WWII I wouldn't have forseen a bright and shining future for any non-anglo races. Including the Axis powers. I've always seen an irony in this. Maybe they simply thought that they would be ready the day that they were turned on. -- Julian Breen _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 8:47 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Islamic special K (was: RE: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories) From: Julian Breen >>Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? >> > >I believe so. Galt has acted as a military advisor in the past to Arab >nations (like other Odessa members) and is known to fund extremist >groups. We also cannot discount the possibility of an Islamic ANTI-Mythos organization, possibly with ties to the Assassin Cult. Such an organization may have been twisted into a Mythos Cult, or fragmented into pro and anti-mythos factions. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 6:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories ---- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Breen" > The Lizard King writes > > > > Doesn't getting drunk at a titty bar the night before a suicide mission > >inspired by religious fanaticism seem a little incongruous? > > You know, that has always been a thought in my mind too. There was also > some claims recently that it was only the pilots of the planes that knew > of the suicide mission. You are probably right; just a point though: Islam is not anti-sex. Islamic men are rewarded in heaven by transcendent sexual bliss. The Koran prescribes rape for non-Islamic women conquered in war (rape in the strict Sabine sense of abduction and forced marriage, followed by the upbringing of the children as muslims). Sexual pleasures are one of Allah's reward for a warrior, and while I'm not sure that visiting a titty bar would be what an Imam would recommend, I don't think they would see it quite the way a fundamentalist Christian would. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 11:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Islamic Special K >From: "Andy Robertson" >Um, um. ObDG. > > >Well, I sort of agree with the Mib. The Arab world **does** see this as >being primarily about the Jews and about Israel. > >Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? > >I think I have heard that the Nazis were pretty much neutral on Islam: >they >did not want to become Islamic, but they considered it a warrior culture, >anti-Jewish, and to be respected and left alone. Does anyone have any >historical links on this? > I remember some obscure reference I read somewhere of a Moslem Waffen-SS unit. If such a thing would have existed, and some men of it would have escaped after the war, I guess some of them might be LebenstenKeeseKopfToten and overseeing ops in the Middle East. However, they would not have anything more than positions as Ritter, tops. Also, there is the Otto Scorzeny (spelling?)- Egypt(?) connection and a bunch of other old nazis training Arab forces after the war. Jussi _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew John Farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 12:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Perfect Murder Gatten Marshall wrote :- > > I've considered that possibility too, but it has a problem. > There was no warning of what was going to happen, and thus no time to plan. > And you would have to kill the person and dispose of their body before > ANYBODY saw them, but AFTER you heard about the disaster. Assuming you were > close enough to New York to make it work, that would mean that by nine > o'clock NOBODY can have seen them, and that's kinda tough. Seven o'clock, > maybe, but by nine most people are out of the house. I would think that the > number of people who wanted to kill somebody who could convincingly make it > look like they might have been at the WTC at the right time has gotta be > pretty low. > On the other hand, anybody with previous knowledge of any similar disaster > could easily arrange to keep a person out of sight during the right time. > Disasters like these are the perfect cover for disappearances, but only with > foreknowledge and that's hard to come by. > Marshall may i just take a moment to request a continuity check - and ask where the heck the PISCES ` talents` section vanished to ? there in lies your answer plus with the OPTION of psychic knacks from countdown there should be a very plausible rationale in most DG campaigns for pulling stunts like that yours - AJ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 12:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Islamic Special K At 04:22 PM 10/13/01 +0000, Jussi Marttila wrote: >>Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? >> >>I think I have heard that the Nazis were pretty much neutral on Islam: > >I remember some obscure reference I read somewhere of a Moslem Waffen-SS >unit. Yes, in Yugoslavia. Was used for anti-partisan operations against Tito's forces, and added in no small part to the current hatred there between Muslims and Christians. I recall seeing a picture of young men in SS uniforms and Turkish-style hats reading a booklet on the similarities between Nazi ideology and the Koran (probably printed by the cultural-propaganda section of the Ahnenerbe). This was all well into the war, when Himmler had to suck it up and let even hated peoples like Slavs into the Waffen-SS, so it's not that unusual. As for the Assassins as an anti-Mythos force, sounds like a great idea, but unfortunately UNSEEN MASTERS decided to make them a Mythos cult for no determinable reason whatsoever. UNSEEN MASTERS does that a lot. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew James [andrew_jamesdg@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 12:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Character Comments --- Doctor TOC wrote: > Andrew James wrote: > > > > > "Sergent, Chap with wings, Three rounds Rapid" > > > Philistine. The quote is; > "Jenkins! - Chap with wings there. Five rounds > rapid" > > Sheesh! :-) Not in the version of the script that I saw Agent Andrew PISCES Agent #007 ===== "Sergent, Chap with wings, Three rounds Rapid" ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Yossi Gurvitz [ygurvitz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 3:30 PM To: Andy Robertson Subject: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Hello Andy, Friday, October 12, 2001, 12:00:33 PM, you wrote: AR> Is an Islamic-Karotechia axis is a real possibility? AR> I think I have heard that the Nazis were pretty much neutral on Islam: they AR> did not want to become Islamic, but they considered it a warrior culture, AR> anti-Jewish, and to be respected and left alone. Does anyone have any AR> historical links on this? You're basically quoting Nietzche (sp?). Now, the Germans did cooperate with the Haj Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti, the self-titled leader of the Palestinians, a rabid anti-Zionist and anti-Semite. In the usual botched fashion, German intelligence and the Mufti dropped agents over Palestine, trying to re-animate the Arab Rebellion of 1936-1939. They tried to work together with the remains of the German colony in Palestine, a group which called itself (surprise!) The Templar Colony (ironically, their part of what is now Tel Aviv is now used by the IDF General Staff). Almost all agents were arrested shortly after landing. Some were executed (though none of the Germans, IIRC). The Mufti even helped the Germans create a Bosnian Muslim SS Battalion, which fought against Tito (rather unsuccessfully), and came to a brutal end. Anwar Saddat of Egypt tried to make contact with Rommel's forces in 1941-2, as part of an anti-British movement. Surprisingly enough, so did the Stern Gang (extreme Jewish terro.... err, freedom fighters), in 1940-1941; they were led by Prime Minister-to-be Yitzhak Shamir. The Germans said no, however. I wonder why. In the irony of ironies, a Jewish German former officer was dropped into Palestine in 1941 as an Abwehr operative. I guess the Abwehr considered him still bound by his officer's vow - even though they had to take him out of a concentration camp and fight tooth-and-nail over him with the SS. Undramatically, he, too, was arrested shortly after landing in Palestine. Hope this helps... -- Best regards, Yossi mailto:ygurvitz@netvision.net.il _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Yossi Gurvitz [ygurvitz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 3:09 PM To: Andy Robertson Subject: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Hello Andy, Friday, October 12, 2001, 7:32:45 AM, you wrote: AR> Well, the main beneficaries are "obviously" the Israel lobby, since this has AR> absolutely cemented the USA as an ally of Israel, a commitment that was AR> slipping. Sadly, I have to report that in a kiddie RPG forum over here, I had to repeatedly ask the kids "are you psychopaths? What's wrong with you?", because far too many of the young creeps were expressing joy at the attacks. There was a savage sense of "Now the uppity Americans are getting to know terrorism first-hand. Let's see how they like it". And one of my neighbors, a sorry excuse for a primate, is still under arrest in the States - seems he and his fellows _partied and danced_ in front of the flame-exuding WTC. And filmed themselves doing so. His family made plenty of noise in the press. And we're the fucking *allies*... We get some 3 Mil. US$ in support *per day*. More than any other country in the world. We're using American technology and American weapons on a daily basis (our standard assault rifle is now, once again, the M-16). I just couldn't get it. Granted, most of those kids were imbeciles, few of them could spell, and my neighbor had a drug record; but, still. Now, we didn't have dancing in the streets, because most of the population felt genuine shock; both major newspapers came out with a large headline, in Hebrew and English, of "America, with you in our hearts". But, while this sentiment of joy was shared by a relatively small group, the sense of "we told you so" was shared by many. Especially commentators. I don't know what the US is doing wrong, but if your allies, people you actually feed, get such a reaction, you're doing something very, very wrong. Or is it the human tendency to bite the hand that feeds you? Not to mention that the Palestinians, in their never-erring sense of doing the suicidal, *did* rejoice in the streets, which dealt another blow to the already-dying peace camp around here. ObDG: The End-Days. Those movies - especially those pictures of people jumping to their deaths - were, in essence, a snuff movie. We watched them. Every one of us. Most of us were in shock, some of us were gritting their teeth and getting ready for the Great Culture Clash. And some of us were shouting and killing and revelling in joy. We like to define them as the enemy - we have to, given our culture - but one cannot expect the entire human race to take the great leap forward together, can he? AR> My reading is that the fundamentalists want to provoke an over-reaction from AR> the US which will, in turn, trigger a revolution in Saudi Arabia and the UAE AR> and put them in power in the Holy Places. My reading is that they wanted a nuke, or something of the sort, on an Islamic country. Then they could really have their Jyhad. (Yes, I'm reading the list again). -- Best regards, Yossi mailto:ygurvitz@netvision.net.il _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 10:01 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories None of this surprises me. What can I say? I agree about the nukes: with the addendum that I think there are elements in the US government that are seriously considering doing just this. The crucial point, I think, is whether there is a second attack of comparable impact to the first. Two attacks implies an endless sequence: and if that happens, people really will go mad. I assume that you did mean to send this only to me, offlist. I am honored that you should open your mind to me in this way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yossi Gurvitz" To: "Andy Robertson" Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 9:09 PM Subject: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories > Hello Andy, > > Friday, October 12, 2001, 7:32:45 AM, you wrote: > > AR> Well, the main beneficaries are "obviously" the Israel lobby, since this has > AR> absolutely cemented the USA as an ally of Israel, a commitment that was > AR> slipping. > Sadly, I have to report that in a kiddie RPG forum over here, I had to > repeatedly ask the kids "are you psychopaths? What's wrong with you?", because far too many > of the young creeps were expressing joy at the attacks. > > There was a savage sense of "Now the uppity Americans are getting to > know terrorism first-hand. Let's see how they like it". > > And one of my neighbors, a sorry excuse for a primate, is still > under arrest in the States - seems he and his fellows _partied and > danced_ in front of the flame-exuding WTC. And filmed themselves > doing so. His family made plenty of noise in the press. > > And we're the fucking *allies*... We get some 3 Mil. US$ in support > *per day*. More than any other country in the world. We're using > American technology and American weapons on a daily basis (our > standard assault rifle is now, once again, the M-16). > > I just couldn't get it. Granted, most of those kids were imbeciles, > few of them could spell, and my neighbor had a drug record; but, > still. > > Now, we didn't have dancing in the streets, because most of the > population felt genuine shock; both major newspapers came out with a > large headline, in Hebrew and English, of "America, with you in our > hearts". > > But, while this sentiment of joy was shared by a > relatively small group, the sense of "we told you so" was shared > by many. Especially commentators. > > I don't know what the US is doing wrong, but if your allies, people > you actually feed, get such a reaction, you're doing something very, > very wrong. Or is it the human tendency to bite the hand that feeds > you? > > Not to mention that the Palestinians, in their never-erring sense of > doing the suicidal, *did* rejoice in the streets, which dealt another > blow to the already-dying peace camp around here. > > ObDG: The End-Days. Those movies - especially those pictures of > people jumping to their deaths - were, in essence, a snuff movie. > We watched them. Every one of us. Most of us were in shock, some of > us were gritting their teeth and getting ready for the Great Culture > Clash. > > And some of us were shouting and killing and revelling in joy. We > like to define them as the enemy - we have to, given our culture - but > one cannot expect the entire human race to take the great leap forward > together, can he? > > AR> My reading is that the fundamentalists want to provoke an over-reaction from > AR> the US which will, in turn, trigger a revolution in Saudi Arabia and the UAE > AR> and put them in power in the Holy Places. > My reading is that they wanted a nuke, or something of the sort, on > an Islamic country. Then they could really have their Jyhad. > > (Yes, I'm reading the list again). > > -- > Best regards, > Yossi mailto:ygurvitz@netvision.net.il > > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 10:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Uh, sorry, Yossi, my stupid . . . but great post, anyhow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Robertson" > I assume that you did mean to send this only to me, offlist. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 1:48 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Character Comments Andrew James wrote: > >>Philistine. The quote is; >>"Jenkins! - Chap with wings there. Five rounds >>rapid" > > Not in the version of the script that I saw Fair enough, but it's still wrong. Scripts frequently differ from the broadcast version. According to Nick Courtney's (the Brigadier) autobiography, and the video of the episode, the line is "Jenkins! - Chap with wings there. Five rounds rapid". In the novelisation it's Corporal Nevins who takes the shot. The story ("The Daemons") and the line are favourites of mine. ObDG: The story that features this often mis-quoted line is one of many that has vaguely Lovecraftian overtones. In this case, the story revolves around an ancient burial mound near a sleepy English village, which contains not a prehistoric king, but an alien spacecraft and it's sleeping occupant. The creature resembles the classic interpretation of the Devil, and uses psionic technology. Much use of pentagrams and chanting is seen, which is explained as part of the process of harnessing and focussing psionic power. What we call magic is simply mankind's faltering grasp of alien technology. The alien is the last on Earth of a race that helped uplift us to our present state, and the entire planet is seen as a lab experiment which has apparently failed. This has a lot of similarities to another bit of classic British SF, "Quatermass and the Pit". In this period of the show's life, "Doctor Who" featured the Doctor trapped on Earth and working with U.N.I.T., the United Nations Intelligence Taskforce - a covert operation dedicated to protecting the Earth from the scum of the Universe (or something). A darker version of UNIT, with tame ET in tow, might be interesting for DG operatives to run up against. There is a US branch of UNIT, but it's largely hobbled by jurisdictional issues, lack of funding, and inter-agency backstabbing from the CIA. The US branch was supposed to have it's own ET advisor (according to the novels), but no details were ever given. DG ops could find out that the tame ET isn't as tame as he says, or that he's not really an ET at all. Alternatively, he *could* be just what he says, but in a far larger sense ("I'm a Time Lord. I walk in Eternity"), being a 3D extrusion of a multidimensional being that simply does a very good job of pretending to be like us. And what's worse, among his onw kind, he's considered a *criminal*... Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs, Captain of The Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man, El Jefe of Evil Leapers ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 2:53 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: [DG] CDC Update I've mentioned this link before, but here it is again - the CDC "Public Health Emergency Preparedness & Response" site. Although the site address still reflects the original title of this section - "Bioterrorism". http://www.bt.cdc.gov/ There are a couple of press releases about the anthrax cases in Florida and Dan Rather's assistant at NBC who has a case of cutaneous anthrax. As the press releases state, part of the investigation involves genotyping of the bacteria to identify the particular strain. Other sources like CNN http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/10/10/anthrax/ state the strain has been identified as Ames, the most common laboratory strain. Actually, PROMEDMAIL has far better coverage of the entire thing at http://www.promedmail.org/pls/promed/promed.home, and go into the archives. Which is where I found the link to this interesting site http://www.pighealth.com/ An interesting factoid is that the Florida cases occurred at American Media Inc., publisher of such fine tabloids as the National Enquirer http://www.nationalenquirer.com/. ObDG: Obviously, a cultist group targets Phenomenon X or a supermarket tabloid as a result of their reporting of Mythos activity. The group mails or couriers some kind of magical powder that affects an individual or individuals in the offices. MJ-12 and DG find themselves involved in the investigation / cover-up of the episode. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ John Petherick, CIH ROH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Yossi Gurvitz [ygurvitz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 4:00 PM To: Andy Robertson Subject: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Hello Andy, Saturday, October 13, 2001, 1:00:19 PM, you wrote: AR> Sexual pleasures are one of Allah's reward for a AR> warrior, and while I'm not sure that visiting a titty bar would be what an AR> Imam would recommend, I don't think they would see it quite the way a AR> fundamentalist Christian would. Alcohol, however, is something else entirely. Did they order drinks? Yours, Yossi _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 1:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: [DG] 9/11 conspiracy theories Uh, good point. I don't know. The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yossi Gurvitz" > Alcohol, however, is something else entirely. Did they order > drinks? > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/