From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 12:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: here's a how d'yo do Andy Robertson wrote: > > A traditional "ghost" would not be attracted to a phone, one assumes. But > any sort of (other-domain other-dimension?) entity that saw microwaves might > be. Smacks somewhat of the Tillinghast Resonator. Cell phones might well be making us visible to entities on higher planes, lighting us up like the golden arches above a drive-through MacDonalds. What if elements of Tillinghast technology were used in cell phones, improving signal reception by passing the signal through a previously un-utilised "waveband"? The reduction in the number of ghost sightings might actually be caused by these entities devouring the "spiritual residue" as an appetiser before emerging to snack on the human race... Hmmm, you know, that's pretty unpleasent. These things *could* eat you twice; once in your physical form, then chomping up your "soul" when it emerges from what's left of the body. ISTR the second episode of "The Chronicle" had a Cthulhoid burrowing monster that fed on comsic radiation attracted to the rads emitted by a new type of cell phone. Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs, Captain of The Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man, El Jefe of Evil Leapers ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: here's a how d'yo do On 15 October 2001, His Saurian Majesty "The Lizard King" wrote: >From: "Michael Layne" > > > On the gripping hand, another possibility is that, rather than >killing > > or repelling the SNEM (Super Natural Entity Manifestations), the phone > > signals attract them! In such a case, the reason the ghosts have not >been > > sighted in areas of phone activity is that the SNEMs have moved into the > > phones themselves, in order to remain near the source of the signal! In >a > > manner of speaking, the phones become haunted! > > This puts the stories of cancer and static shocks in a whole new light. >People careening across traffic lanes while shrieking into their cell >phones >might actually be possessed. Ditto morons in restaurants and movie >theaters. I admit, that would certainly explain a lot about them... And, when implanted communicator devices are eventually introduced, the problem will become even worse! Some of the old cyberpunk tales of street samurai possessed by their implanted microchips may have to be dusted off! And the phone problem, with SNEM attraction and possession, brings a whole new meaning to the old "Ghostbusters" saying: "Who you gonna call?":) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "How could you tell he was possessed?" "Well, one clue was when the word "KILL!" appeared in glowing red letters in both his cybereyes..." "Guess that's why so many street sams wear those mirrorshades!" "That, and how cool it looks..." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Til Eulenspiegel [til_e@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 4:44 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology Monday, 15 October 2001 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" [snip] > > Many stealth programs exist in the public eye: the F-117, the B-2, > the [snip] > Helicopter, the Arleigh Burke Destroyer and the Navy's next > generation Arleigh Burke-class destroyers show up very nicely on naval surface radars, including fire control radars. (I used to do that for a living.) Whether the smaller sets used in missals have more trouble with their "stealth" features I cannot say. The angled surfaces on AEGIS radar-equipped ships have little to do with stealth, and much to do with the phased array antennas used by the AEGIS radar. "DG21" or "Land Attack Destroyer" or whatever they call it this week might well have stealth, but I really doubt it will prove useful. [snip] > However, the Stealth cat is out of the bag, and now every developed > nation is desperate to develop the capability of not being seen. > The British are rumored to be developing a stealth fighter, and > there are some indications that the Russians are doing so as well. > The Eurofighter program to develop a unified European aircraft is > likely to incorporate a very stealthy design. These new > developments threaten to make the I hear the Eurofighter, like the F-22, relies more on active stealth (i.e., electronic warfare) than the passive stealth characteristics coming from its design. In the former case, I know very little about the inherent stealth of the design. AvWeek has had some very good recent articles about infrared stealth in the JSF project, but that periodical can be hard to find and their website stinks. [snip] > Officers for Delta Green. The possibilities are fairly obvious when > looked at in the right light: Said light no doubt has a strange undefinable "Colour" to it, eh? Seriously though, do a web search for "Air Force 2025" to see what sort of worry-list and wish-list USAF had five or six years ago. The new Quadrennial Defense Report came out 30 September also has some stealth or "low-observable technologies" mentioned. (Interestingly, it uses the word "stealth" and "nanotechnology" an equal number of times.) Both are free PDF downloads, but I will burn you a disk if you want one. > > 1) Satellite Technology: Radar is the primary means of detection of > space vehicles, if a spy satellite could be rendered invisible to > radar, Well, kind of. USAF uses infrared emissions to spot launches, but space-based IR spysats still stay on their wish list, I believe. How easy can the eye or a telescope spot military satellites from the ground? I'd think thermal control aboard the spacecraft would rule out flat black surfaces and other easy measures. Changing orbits matters more for getting the object of interest in view than in eluding observers. Infrared emission on EXCALIBUR type weapons must prove quite hard... Perhaps the Glove Cleaner can provide some applicable techno-gibberish. > 2) Cruise Missiles: Lockheed has an operational recon drone called > Darkstar, it wouldn't be too far out of line to think that cruise > missiles should be designed in a stealthy manner. You'd probably > have to cut out a lot of the more expensive radar absorbing > materials such as composites, and rely on a "stealth bullet" > design. This program would be called: SKY SHADOW. Again, AvWeek hints design matters more than composition, but not like you'd think. Rather than all-aspect stealth, a cruise missile mostly needs to have stealth going toward its target. (Cruise missals don't fly home.) This works against its speed, since heat-resistant materials and low-observable materials form a disjoint set, recent speculation in Wired about quantum dot arrays notwithstanding. I think cruise missals will form a distinct subset of UCAVs for the forseeable future, with two kinds of cruise missile. One, the subsonic stealth cruise missile: SHADOWHAWK. Two, the hypersonic cruise missile. The former will probably belong to USA first, with it spreading to everyone and their brother by 2030 or so. Hypersonics will remain the province of USA for some time to come, barring a resurrected Russian aerospace industry. Europe has no forseeable motive. I don't think China will develop them for a long time to come. > > 3) Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles: This is incredibly > destabilizing [snip] A recent cover article of AvWeek described the US as perilously close to "unilateral disarmament" through the loss of intellectual capital at the national labs (retirement and scandal, mostly) and through lack of confidence in the nuclear arsenal. For instance, the average age of a US nuclear weapon is 13 years--the highest ever. No nuclear tests means method to check the computer models. Worse than losing confidence in the arsenal, the articles pointed out how irrelevant city-busters have grown. It calls for the US to develop fourth-generation nuclear weapons of very small yields and quickly, before all the good people retire. ObDG: Say, do you suppose the skinny little fucks from space (SLFS) know anything about nuclear explosions? Do you think the Shan might have a thing or two to say about worship^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstudying nuclear reactions? Do you remember the old scenario "Fractal Gods"? If an early 1990s personal computer can draw a gate/cast Summon Azathoth, surely today's very fastest supercomputers can invoke the Daemon Sultan. > > 4) Sonar Invisibility: Although this Man in Black has little > fundamental understanding of the science involved, it seems vaguely > possible to Me too. Most SONAR-related material in the USN was classified and need-to-know (and simplified and boring). Jane's has pretty good write-ups, and GURPS Atlantis's bibliography has some useful links. My uninformed impression is that the ocean makes active measures fundamentally unpredictable, and that passive measures are your best bet. Corrections, anyone? > 5) Special Operations: The US Army has been developing technology > to [snip] > I'm not too familiar with the radar signature of parachutes, but it Me either, but so long as you had nothing conductive in it a parachute should prove hard to spot on radar. What goes into a parachute today? Graphite rods conduct nicely, and these see use in high-end stunt kites. I don't know about Kevlar or Spectra. > (exempting the plane he dropped out of). A Stealthy Osprey-type > aircraft or helicopter for infiltration and exfiltration seems to > be necessary if I doubt the Osprey has very good stealth. In fact, I don't know how any helicopter has good stealth. Those rotating blades would put a really nice, obvious, and predictable frequency shift on your radar's return. Maybe there's some black magic modulation you could do with EW gear to minimize or to even take advantage of it. Could you make it act as a range gate stealer? I really don't know, and doubt it immensely. That said, my employer has the contract for the V-22 and CV-22 flight simulators. I've not gone yet to that job, but probably will in 2002. I'll ask around at work to see whether anyone knows about its stealth properties, but probably will get (a) blank looks, (b) WAGs, or (c) nervous looks. [snip] > In conclusion, I think the proliferation of Tillinghast Resonator > technology as applied to all areas of the Military Industrial > Complex will present the greatest threat to Delta Green in the > coming conflict with Majestic-12. Currently, the Office of Naval > Intelligence is [snip] Beside stealth, directed-energy weapons top the US military's R&D wish-list. The Anti-Ballistic Missile Laser project is fairly well-known, as is the US Army/USMC's microwave anti-personnel "non-lethal" weapon. As power-density aboard aircraft increases, we will see directed-energy weapons moving to cruise missiles, to fighters and to ground warfare. (Another recent AvWeek issue discussed this at length.) Improved energy weapons made possible by spin-offs of Tillinghast Resonator studies will certainly come out of MAJESTIC first. Just as the Spanish Civil War and the Gulf War allowed the military to field-test new toys, expect to _not_ hear about new tools and techniques used in Afghanistan and (later) Iraq. ObDG: We all know MAJESTIC has seen Colours. So they know energy fields can respond to their surroundings in unprecedented ways. Could they plan to detect stealth aircraft by projecting an energy field capable of monitoring and reacting to its environment? Do you suppose they still have some eggs from the crash of Space Shuttle Atlantis in Kansas? I bet they do, just like I bet you don't remember that tragedy. (What a cover-up!) And if the field can respond to it's environment, and _damage_ its environment, how long would it take to "weaponize" that field? Why doesn't MAJESTIC's experiments in time attract Hounds like ten thousand club-kids high on Reverb? What happens twenty years from now, when directed energy weapons using the T.R. sit on every US military aircraft? (Yeah, they'll all computer pilots, I know.) What happens fifty years from now when _everybody_ has directed energy weapons? > > The Man in Black is : busy scheduling a 7C chat session, right? Til Eulenspiegel dugger@vss.fsi.com : duggerj1@home.com : til_e@hotmail.com "The hell it can't!" - --Sinclair Lewis. _It Can't Happen Here_ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:02 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: here's a how d'yo do On 16 October 2001, EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) wrote: >Therefore the WTC might at least be haunted by the ghosts >of the murderers. Didn't the movie Ghostbusters operate in NY? This would be just the sort of ghosts to bust -- though they'd have to keep them in perpetual solitary confinement... The other ghosts in the containment facility would mob these ghost terrorists! (Or maybe it would be justice to throw them in the general pop -- they can't take the terrorist ghosts to the World Court, as precedent has been established that a person cannot be tried there after he is dead...) >But on the other hand those guys had been taught that they would enter >heaven >immediately after death. Thus they might very well be angry enough to haunt >the >mullahs who lied to them.... Like something from the "Twilight Zone"... The ghost terrorists come back and haunt the mullahs incessantly. One of the mullahs laughs, reminding the ghosts that they (the ghosts) can rant and wail all they want, but ghostly hands can't touch living people. They (the mullahs) will just keep on recruiting suicide attackers, and nothing the ghosts will do can stop them! Eventually, though, the ghostly wailing and taunting gets so bad the mullahs decide to relocate from their cave to another hiding place, in hopes the ghosts won't follow. As the mullahs exit the cave, they are so busy glancing behind them at the pursuing ghosts, that they at first don't notice Captain Forrest James and his mixed SEAL/Special Forces/SAS team (including Chuck Norris, Harrison Ford, Arnold Schwarzanneger, Sylvester Stallone, and David Prowse lookalikes):) standing near the cave exit with enough firepower to send any gunfondler into total rapture. Interestingly, their equipment is decorated with Elder Signs! "We were just about to go in after you!" says CPT James. "Thanks for coming out! I don't suppose you're surrendering?" "Go away, infidels!" shouts one mullah. "You defile Afghanistan with your --" Lotsa gunfire. As the commandos proceed to their next jobs (something about some large spiders sighted by the 82nd Airborne at a place called Leng, and some report of somebody digging up an ancient bottle with the Seal of Solomon), the ghosts of the mullahs face the ghosts of the hijackers. "Ah, hah!" shouts one of the hijacker ghosts. "_Now_ we can touch you!" "Can't we talk this ov--" As his ghostly hands go around the ghost mullah's throat, the ghost mullah emits a horrible ghostly scream that gradually fades, but seems to echo through all eternity. An SAS man looks over at CPT James. "Sir, did you just hear a horrible ghostly scream that gradually is fading, but seems to echo through all eternity?" Captain Forrest James (Agent DARREN) just nods, a bit like the pseudo Obi-Wan in "Hardware Wars". "Could be... Wish this place wasn't landlocked -- no Deep Ones!" Rod Serling: "False advertising by those who send their minions off to die with promises of paradise... Leaders who lied with impunity, but who will now face those they have duped, for all eternity... In... The Twilight Zone!" (Yes, I know it could be better, but it's 1 AM where I am now...):) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:54 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Hero Conversions Can anybody point me in the direction of any CoC/Hero System conversions anywhere? Particularly Mythos Grimoires/Bestiaries. Thanks, -- Julian Breen _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:09 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology From: Til Eulenspiegel > Arleigh Burke-class destroyers show up very nicely on naval >surface radars, including fire control radars. Everything I've read about this destroyer indicates that stealth was incorporated into it's design, but not as a "total stealth" package, but more along a "reduce the signature where we can" sort of thing. In other words, an equivalent sized tub of steel 50 years ago would be detectable at much greater ranges. > I hear the Eurofighter, like the F-22, relies more on active >stealth (i.e., electronic warfare) than the passive stealth >characteristics coming from its design. I heard the early Eurofighter designs were something like a smaller, more maneuverable YF-22, but politics, bureaucratic compromise and technical risk aversion watered down the more radical philosophies. > I doubt the Osprey has very good stealth. In fact, I don't know >how any helicopter has good stealth. Those rotating blades would put >a really nice, obvious, and predictable frequency shift on your >radar's return. Maybe there's some black magic modulation you could >do with EW gear to minimize or to even take advantage of it. Could >you make it act as a range gate stealer? I really don't know, and >doubt it immensely. I rethought this whole aerial infiltration vehicle concept. Mucking about with modulation and EMF wizardry is too complicated (although counter-rotating "white noise" twin rotors might play a role here). Anyway, I'm now convinced that in the future, tilt-rotorcraft and helicopters will be more suited to large scale non-stealthy operations than Special Operations. Special Operations infiltration craft in the future will use vectored thrust. This vehicle would look a lot like a stealth version of the DropShip used by the Colonial Marines in Aliens. Vectored thrust propulsion allows the turbofan intakes or whatever to be covered with radar reflecting grating. We still have the infrared signature to deal with, but I'm sure there are ways around that. This Stealth Dropship might well include anti-gravity propulsion if it's a Project REDLIGHT aircraft. This craft probably wouldn't be used on NRO DELTA operations for security reasons. However, if the operation took place in a sufficiently remote area (Antarctica, the deep blue sea, and Mars comes to mind), then I can see it being used. Anything to ressurect X-COM and incorporate it into Delta Green. Hell, if you're really crazy, make it submersible as well, a FLYING FISH. The Air Force's first submarine. This makes me want to write a post about the various Project REDLIGHT aircraft... Perhaps I'll bring it up to the GURPS Vehicles crowd. I wonder if any of those Gearheads have a Experimental Vehicles page for stats and stuff. > That said, my employer has the contract for the V-22 and CV-22 >flight simulators. I've not gone yet to that job, but probably will >in 2002. I'll ask around at work to see whether anyone knows about >its stealth properties, but probably will get (a) blank looks, (b) >WAGs, or (c) nervous looks. That's the sort of questioning that adds pages to your FBI and DIA files. Then again, it might help in the Simulation, if the brass want that sort of thing included. I'd think I'd only want stealth and radar detection ranges to be incorporated into full on combat simulators (like those for the F-117). It might be worthwhile (in terms of security at least) to create more than one simulator software: one for routine flight training and one for intensive tactical situations. You can include all the sensitive data (radar ranges, weak spots etc) in the more secure version. Then again, it would be MOST secure not to include these things in any version, at the cost of watering down the effectiveness the simulator training offers. It makes me wonder... simulator software is an ideal target for cyber-espionage. I can see in the future, how all combat simulators (flight sims, naval sims, ground forces etc etc) can be linked over the internet, or some Nth Generation MILSTAR network, to allow huge online wargames of epic proportions. SIM WAR. If an enemy could obtain the nuts and bolts of a system they could analyze tactics in depth. Furthermore, subtly altering such sims would warp tactics and training. Such a brilliant plan would allow a cunning trap or two to catch someone with their pants down in some future war. A conspiracy like this might very well form the core of my next CyberPunkish game. >> The Man in Black is : > busy scheduling a 7C chat session, right? No, I'm not... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:41 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology It might be worthwhile (in terms of security at least) to create more than one simulator software: one for routine flight training and one for intensive tactical situations. You can include all the sensitive data (radar ranges, weak spots etc) in the more secure version. Then again, it would be MOST secure not to include these things in any version, at the cost of watering down the effectiveness the simulator training offers. Since US Military officers have to maintain at least SECRET clearance (thinking Navy here), and most avionics (the cool stuff) are classified SECRET, then I can't see development of two systems. Even on "black" projects, the operator (i.e. pilot and flight crew) have to be cleared to use them... and they seem to be the only ones who would use the simulator. So, if the aircraft design is classified TOP SECRET/MAJIC/REDLIGHT, then so is the simulator... and the operators are cleared accordingly. It makes me wonder... simulator software is an ideal target for cyber-espionage. I can see in the future, how all combat simulators (flight sims, naval sims, ground forces etc etc) can be linked over the internet, or some Nth Generation MILSTAR network, to allow huge online wargames of epic proportions. SIM WAR. Nice thought... although something like this would definitely be SIPIRNET only.. and would require hacking into the network via hardware before even attempting to hack the simulator itself... tasty plot hooks abound. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:14 AM To: Delta Green Community (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Buried Boxcars Seven buried train cars hide a hydroponic drug crop: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011015/od/pot_dc_1.html Aside from the obvious "Those aren't really marijuana plants" kind of plot that you could get from this, there are some other interesting ideas. The creepiness factor of seven boxcars completely buried underground. ANYTHING could be hidden in a place like that. Perhaps they're old steam-era train cars that have been buried for a hundred years or more. In that case, they may have become gateways to seven locations in Carcosa. Perhaps a buried box car contains the dead (or not-quite-dead) body of a Thing Not Meant To Be. Some local yokel summoned up something more than he expected years ago. After much struggling he managed to trap it in a box car with liberal use of elder signs. Fearful that somebody might eventually open the box car and let it out, he managed to bury the whole thing. Of course, modern investigators tend to be more curious than is safe when they find things like buried box cars. Perhaps they're just a very excellent Green Box with a tunnel to a concealed door in the basement of a friendly's house a hundred meters away. Or a modern wizard's library. Or a Mi-Go lab of some kind who's only entrance is a gate straight to Yuggoth. Well, okay, for that to be useful there'd have to be a second gate to someplace here on Earth. Or all the eternally-screaming ghosts of the passengers from a train that mysteriously vanished a hundred years ago. Or the starving zombies that they became instead of ghosts. Or, thanks to a recent thread here, a boxcar full of cell phones hooked to a nuclear power source so that they can drive away ghosts for the next thousand years or so. And the list goes on... Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology From: Rayburn, Russell E. >Since US Military officers have to maintain at least SECRET clearance >(thinking Navy here), and most avionics (the cool stuff) are classified >SECRET, then I can't see development of two systems. > >Even on "black" projects, the operator (i.e. pilot and flight crew) have to >be cleared to use them... and they seem to be the only ones who would use >the simulator. So, if the aircraft design is classified TOP >SECRET/MAJIC/REDLIGHT, then so is the simulator... and the operators are >cleared accordingly. The problem is that with codewords slapped all over them, the information is SCI, Secure Compartmentalized Information. Which means that pilots will only know what pilots need to know, engineers will only know what engineers need to know etc etc. So it makes sense to keep some aspects of the simulation restricted, with software guys programming in compartmentalized modules. Not exactly the best way to code, but then again, you get to charge the govt. more money that way. You'd make a lousy defense contractor, graft and corruption and cost overruns are the only way to make a profit you know... The whole point of compartmentalization is that NO ONE has the whole picture, so putting it together from the outside becomes monumentally difficult. Just because you're cleared for REDLIGHT, doesn't mean you're cleared for MAJIC, or even all the various REDLIGHT compartments (each aircraft is probably a seperate compartment, with individual systems like the anti-gravity portion being additional compartments). In fact, MAJIC is supposed to be a SuperUser clearance to cut through all the SCI stuff, allowing for a view of the Big Picture. It is this ability to peer into information compartments that's makes MAJESTIC so scary when dealing with a return to official status for DELTA GREEN. The MAJESTIC Steering Committee needs to be purged before any such return can be made. If Kroft and his cronies uncover the awesome powers of the Mythos, they will certainly attempt to harness them, then Delta Green will be at least partially responsible for turning the United States into a Mythos Controlled Nation. Right now, only Delta Green's outlaw status, and the fact that Majestic's top security personnel (Gavin Ross and Adolph Lepus) are firmly in the anti-mythos, anti-alien camp, that keep Majestic's fingers out of the occult pie. The Mi-Go take great pains to keep Majestic ignorant of the mythos. However, they probably have some gradual corruption plan set in motion to turn Majestic into the world's largest collaborator cult, with open worship of the Mythos. The Fungi from Yuggoth might not like accelerating this plan early, but I'm sure they'd do it if MAJESTIC started exploiting the occult. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology The Man in Black wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > The whole point of compartmentalization is that NO ONE has the whole > picture, so putting it together from the outside becomes monumentally > difficult. Just because you're cleared for REDLIGHT, doesn't mean you're > cleared for MAJIC, or even all the various REDLIGHT compartments (each > aircraft is probably a seperate compartment, with individual systems > like the anti-gravity portion being additional compartments). In fact, > MAJIC is supposed to be a SuperUser clearance to cut through all the SCI > stuff, allowing for a view of the Big Picture. Ok, but I was under impression that you need to have MAJIC clearance to be involved in Majestic operations. So I supposed that you had to have MAJIC to get REDLIGHT clearance. I checked this last week 'cause I'm writing a MJ-4 - related scenario (details will follow soon). Sidenote: is there any official description how REDLIGHT vehicle looks like? I've taken liberty to assume that they are operative now, or at least in field testing. I need it to make my scenario characters to witness some weird flying object (being REDLIGHT craft used for interconintental evacuation of failed Majestic OP). Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Buried Boxcars From: Gatten, Marshall >Or, thanks to a recent thread here, a boxcar full of cell phones hooked to a >nuclear power source so that they can drive away ghosts for the next >thousand years or so. > >And the list goes on... Although your nuclear powered cell phone concept is excellent (I have to get me one of those), I can't help but be reminded that the Conspiracy on the X-Files buried a whole trainload of Alien Hybrids out in the desert somewhere to cover up their hybridization/vaccine experiments. This was the episode entiled Anasazi: http://www.thexfiles.com/episodes/season2/2x25.html The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 1:07 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology -----Original Message----- From: Janusz A. Urbanowicz >Ok, but I was under impression that you need to have MAJIC clearance to be >involved in Majestic operations. So I supposed that you had to have MAJIC to >get REDLIGHT clearance. I checked this last week 'cause I'm writing a MJ-4 >- related scenario (details will follow soon). This is not true at all. MAJIC is for the brass. The Grunts working on the Sub-Projects often don't know a damned thing about Greys or any of the other projects. That's the whole point of compartmentalization. Even the NRO DELTA guys aren't told shit, but they see so much during ops that they eventually figure it out anyway. I mean really, why would you tell the EXCALIBUR people about the ARC DREAM stuff? And that's only within MJ-6 PLUTO, we don't even go into the interaction between MJ-4 SIGMA and MJ-2 PLATO. My only MJ-4 related idea involved a Delta Green conversion of the "Music of the Spheres" scenario from Chaosium's "The Stars Are Right". >Sidenote: is there any official description how REDLIGHT vehicle looks like? >I've taken liberty to assume that they are operative now, or at least in >field testing. I need it to make my scenario characters to witness some >weird flying object (being REDLIGHT craft used for interconintental >evacuation of failed Majestic OP). I'd say there are numerous REDLIGHT craft. REDLIGHT-1 might be a saucer shaped anti-gravity platform, REDLIGHT-2 might be a triangular fighter-bomber, REDLIGHT-3 might be the Stealthy Vectored thrust dropship, REDLIGHT-4 might be the hypersonic AURORA, etc etc. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:31 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Buried Boxcars *cough* X-Files episode *cough* > Seven buried train cars hide a hydroponic drug crop: > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011015/od/pot_dc_1.html > > >Aside from the obvious "Those aren't really marijuana plants" kind of plot >that you could get from this, there are some other interesting ideas. > >The creepiness factor of seven boxcars completely buried underground. >ANYTHING could be hidden in a place like that. > >Perhaps they're old steam-era train cars that have been buried for a hundred >years or more. In that case, they may have become gateways to seven >locations in Carcosa. > >Perhaps a buried box car contains the dead (or not-quite-dead) body of a >Thing Not Meant To Be. Some local yokel summoned up something more than he >expected years ago. After much struggling he managed to trap it in a box car >with liberal use of elder signs. Fearful that somebody might eventually open >the box car and let it out, he managed to bury the whole thing. Of course, >modern investigators tend to be more curious than is safe when they find >things like buried box cars. > >Perhaps they're just a very excellent Green Box with a tunnel to a concealed >door in the basement of a friendly's house a hundred meters away. > >Or a modern wizard's library. > >Or a Mi-Go lab of some kind who's only entrance is a gate straight to >Yuggoth. Well, okay, for that to be useful there'd have to be a second gate >to someplace here on Earth. > >Or all the eternally-screaming ghosts of the passengers from a train that >mysteriously vanished a hundred years ago. Or the starving zombies that >they became instead of ghosts. > >Or, thanks to a recent thread here, a boxcar full of cell phones hooked to a >nuclear power source so that they can drive away ghosts for the next >thousand years or so. > >And the list goes on... > >Marshall -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 2:55 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology Good point... compartmentalization would keep some things secret. However, going back to the idea of flight simulators, I'd think pilots would be cleared to fly their REDLIGHT aircraft. Any technician developing a simulator would have to know the performance characteristics and controls (to test the simulator works correctly) of REDLIGHT craft. And, just like DELTA, some (if not all) of these guys are going to figure out what they're working on Isn't Quite Right: PILOT: "This simulator must be broken. I just went from mach 4 to hover in less than a second." TECH: "Nope, everything is within design parameters." PILOT: "That can't be right; the CO told me we don't have to wear G-suits in this thing." TECH: "Well, I don't know about that, but your performance is well within the specifications for this craft." PILOT: "Well what the hell is it?" CO (On scratchy intercom): "That's classified. Back to work you two." -----Original Message----- From: The Man in Black [mailto:scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 1:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology The problem is that with codewords slapped all over them, the information is SCI, Secure Compartmentalized Information. Which means that pilots will only know what pilots need to know, engineers will only know what engineers need to know etc etc. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:43 PM To: Dgrpg (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Fly Gunfondler Air! Picture flying this to the next cultist shindig you're crashing... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011017/ts/gunship_graphic.html _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 3:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: Gun Fusion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rayburn, Russell E." > Picture flying this to the next cultist shindig you're crashing... > > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011017/ts/gunship_graphic.html I've had some inkling of "fusion" with a weapon when handling, for example, a bow. When you feel what is going to happen and where the arrows will go. A rare zen moment. I wonder if . . . . what is it like to fuse with this beauty, to become one thing with it? Is that possible? Does the control system allow it, or hinder it? But I have no experience with guns, let alone of being the control node for one of these monsters. What do those who have handled fire control (on warships, planes, submarines) say? Has anyone onlist done it? Does anyone have any stories from others to recount? My thought is that the man/machine interface is a significant facet of future evolution. Of all machines, war machines are the most perfect. Maybe this is one of those things the Mi-Go are interested in. Maybe that is why they keep us fighting. Maybe that is why they keep us practicing with fake war machine computer games and stuff. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 6:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fly Gunfondler Air! From: Rayburn, Russell E. >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011017/ts/gunship_graphic.html These babies were in service since at least Vietnam. Perfect for eliminating a Tcho-Tcho Village or twelve. Well... not as perfect as napalm, but still fun. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 6:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fly Gunfondler Air! On 17 October 2001, as the AC-130 is being used on the Taliban (partly as a cover for its firing on any Mythos critters that pop up over there), "Rayburn, Russell E." wrote: >Picture flying this to the next cultist shindig you're crashing... > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20011017/ts/gunship_graphic.html I got to see an A-model during a visit to the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, near Dayton, OH. (I used to go out there every year, attending the Dayton Air Show...) The gunship I saw was the prototype AC-130A (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an18.htm). In October of 1995, a second AC-130 gunship (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/outdoor/od11a.htm) was retired to the USAF Museum. This one is "Azrael -- Angel of Death" (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/outdoor/od11a-2.jpg), which, serving with the 919th Special Operations Wing (SOW), did a job any gunfondler would have been proud of during the Gulf War. For further information on the AC-130 (the H and U versions are the ones still in USAF use) for when you need one to deal with that pesky Dark Young once and for all... The CNN Profile on the AC-130 (http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/16/ret.ac130.profile/index.html) The official USAD Fact Sheet on the AC-130 (http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/AC_130H_U_Gunship.html) The FAS webpage on the AC-130 (with some interesting links) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ac-130.htm) The Special Operations coverage of the AC-130 (this site also has data on the MC-130 Combat Talon variants, the AH-6 Little Bird, and a variety of other SpecOps aircraft) (http://www.specialoperations.com/Aviation/AC_130/default.html) SpecWarNet's webpage on the gunship (http://www.specwarnet.net/vehicles/spectre.htm) "Death From a Spectre Moon" (nice site!) (http://member.tripod.com/~allen8633/ Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Til Eulenspiegel [til_e@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Hero Conversions -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Can anybody point me in the direction of any CoC/Hero System > conversions anywhere? Particularly Mythos Grimoires/Bestiaries. > http://www.herogames.com Hero Games's store might sell you a copy of "Champions 3-D." The chapter "Horror World" in that book deals with a post-End Times holocaust setting. It has a few nice monsters, no grimoire, and very nasty Sanity-like rules for Hero. This book went out of print nearly a decade ago, and it might take you longer to find a copy than to write rules from scratch. Hero will do this quite nicely, based on the results in that book. See also "The Ultimate SuperMage" and "The Ultimate Mentalist," which both have some use for this project. Failing that, do a search for "GURPS Hero" on the GURPS webring and either download the Roleplayer archive from SJGames or buy a copy of GURPS Cthulhupunk. Both contain conversion rules between GURPS and CoC. GURPS Hero will give you some conversion rules between HERO and GURPS. Good luck. Til Eulenspiegel dugger@vss.fsi.com : duggerj1@home.com : til_e@hotmail.com "The hell it can't!" - - --Sinclair Lewis. _It Can't Happen Here_ - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO85OHSjXCkSehE2kEQLADgCdFbCnfBc+1XF/HFBKu05f0jLYbKQAnA9I cQaPTCc7IPE3LXCgtKZW2Dp+ =oODP - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO85VKyjXCkSehE2kEQInrwCgkKYDPT7Bc6NTlUq3hplj+cewsdMAn20p mMLfvJfOMPl6rN7d+bpgflOE =OIa+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Til Eulenspiegel [til_e@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:08 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology snip] [> Special Operations infiltration craft in the future will use vectored > thrust. This vehicle would look a lot like a stealth version of the > DropShip used by the Colonial Marines in Aliens. Vectored thrust > propulsion allows the turbofan intakes or whatever to be covered > with radar reflecting grating. We still have the infrared signature > to deal with, but I'm sure there are ways around that. Again, AvWeek--if you subscribe, please mention me. I get a free issue. AW had articles within the last two months on future SpecOps aircraft and on IR stealth on the JSF. The former discussed SpecOps aircraft as miniature aerodynes/flying platforms. Imagine a fully enclosed Solotrek or a minature Moller SkyCar and you'll have the general idea. Dean Ing's recently reprinted "Firefight 2000" has a good section on this topic. As I remember the JSF piece, geometry does most of the IR stealth. [snip] > > This makes me want to write a post about the various Project > REDLIGHT aircraft... Perhaps I'll bring it up to the GURPS Vehicles > crowd. I wonder if any of those Gearheads have a Experimental > Vehicles page for stats and stuff. Did you forget your Pyramid Online password? The playtest copy of Vehicles Companion is (was?) up. Rather than just crunch numbers, why don't you post the vehicles in FUDGE or D6 format? [snip] > that sort of thing included. I'd think I'd only want stealth and > radar detection ranges to be incorporated into full on combat > simulators (like those for the F-117). Ha! What do you think we build? > It might be worthwhile (in terms of security at least) to create > more than one simulator software: one for routine flight training > and one for Are you crazy? That would cost extra. > intensive tactical situations. You can include all the sensitive > data (radar ranges, weak spots etc) in the more secure version. > Then again, it would be MOST secure not to include these things in > any version, at the cost of watering down the effectiveness the > simulator training offers. Secure software? Ha! My home computer has a better security than the workstations running the sims. The machine's main defense against information warfare is controlling the physical network connection. > > It makes me wonder... simulator software is an ideal target for > cyber-espionage. I can see in the future, how all combat simulators > (flight sims, naval sims, ground forces etc etc) can be linked over > the internet, or some Nth Generation MILSTAR network, to allow huge > online wargames of epic proportions. SIM WAR. > Linked simulations already occur. (We don't do any, unfortunately.) This will grow increasingly common in the future, as computer gaming spin-offs recreate commercial simulators. Even my employer's designers admit that COTS computer graphics will beat specialized hardware in another two generations. (I think it'll take only one more generation.) > If an enemy could obtain the nuts and bolts of a system they could > analyze tactics in depth. Furthermore, subtly altering such sims > would warp tactics and training. Such a brilliant plan would allow > a cunning trap or two to catch someone with their pants down in > some future war. A conspiracy like this might very well form the > core of my next > CyberPunkish game. Two references for SIM WAR. Do a web search for "Like Adding Wings to the Tiger." This is an FMSO study of Chinese information warfare methods and theory. See also Anders Sandberg's "InfoWar," a FUDGE-based techno-punk game. > > >> The Man in Black is : > > busy scheduling a 7C chat session, right? > > > No, I'm not... > Are you CRYING? There's NO CRYING in CoC! (Not unless it's preceded or accompanied by manical cackling.) Jesus H.! must I move back to that sun-soaked isolated rock to MOTIVATE your SORRY ASS? Maybe I should pass your name to Mistress Bleu of the Dungeon and have her PUNISH you! On second thought, I'll do that if and only if you GET HOT on 7C. > The Man in Black is : really asking for it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO85jrijXCkSehE2kEQLr7QCg8BvfMcQtuDn4KmB0r1OXF7upaCoAoN99 C3zm+u5ELlT8AkbztV98bNKU =G9WM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology On 17 October 2001, "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" wrote from Poland: >Sidenote: is there any official description how REDLIGHT vehicle looks >like? >I've taken liberty to assume that they are operative now, or at least in >field testing. I need it to make my scenario characters to witness some >weird flying object (being REDLIGHT craft used for interconintental >evacuation of failed Majestic OP). Well, the Federation of American Scientists has a site (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/index.html) with some information on the various US "Mystery Aircraft", some of which may be REDLIGHT projects. If you want to proceed directly to AURORA (which, no, I don't think was a name for Lockheed's entry in the stealth-bomber competition -- great cover story, though...), try the AURORA page (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm). Nor is the hypersonic AURORA the same as the Canadian variant of the P-3 Orion. (Too bad that plastic model manufacturer isn't in business any more, or we could have an AURORA model from Aurora... There _are_ Aurora-type models out there, but they are made by -- I believe -- Testors! IIRC, one model company (Testors, again) made a model of the flying disc the USAF (or Majestic) allegedly built using recovered alien technology...). Some data on a proposed spaceplane I wish the USAF would actually get the courage (and the money) to build before some other nation does can be found at http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/hypersoar.htm. You can find an interesting description of an AURORA-like aircraft in the novel "Icefire", by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. A different (but still excellent) version of a Blackbird successor is featured in "North Cape", by Joe Poyer. (I like the stealth warship, USS "Robert F. Kennedy", in Poyer's novel, as well!) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Edward Lipsett [translation@intercomltd.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 3:00 AM Subject: [DG] Missile base floorplans Interesting floorplans for actual US missile bases. Interesting layouts that would be just as useful on the Moon or elsewhere... http://www.missilebases.com/titan1/titanplans.htm http://www.missilebases.com/atlasF/atlas.htm One of the retired missile bases being sold is located in a place called Roswell... http://www.missilebases.com/properties/index.html ===== There is a certain kind of child who awakens from a book as from an abyssal sleep, swimming heavily up through layers of consciousness toward a reality that seems less real than the dream-state that has been left behind. I was such as child. - Anne Fadiman, "Ex Libris" ===== Edward Lipsett Intercom, Ltd. Fukuoka, Japan translation@intercomltd.com http://www.intercomltd.com Tel: +81-92-712-9120 Fax: +81-92-712-9220 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Philip_Ward@yestelevision.com Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 3:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] John Tynes Charity Auction Did anybody else see this, John Tynes auctions off the rights to a 5000 word CofC adventure based on the winning persons dreams, winner gets the only copy, all in aid of the WTC victims! http://www.gidfa.org/auction/item.php?id=74512f6d5b864206d55bdd7df67b8042 Current bid is only $350 ********************************************************************** This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or privileged information and should not be read, copied or otherwise used or disseminated by any unauthorised person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Yes Television (Europe) Ltd . If you are not the named recipient, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail from your system. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 3:56 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) > -----Original Message----- > From: The Man in Black [mailto:scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 19:10 > To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations > about Stealth > Technology > The problem is that with codewords slapped all over them, the > information is SCI, Secure Compartmentalized Information. Which means > that pilots will only know what pilots need to know, > engineers will only > know what engineers need to know etc etc. So it makes sense > to keep some > aspects of the simulation restricted, with software guys > programming in > compartmentalized modules. Not exactly the best way to code, but then > again, you get to charge the govt. more money that way. You'd make a > lousy defense contractor, graft and corruption and cost > overruns are the > only way to make a profit you know... Ahhh, military flight-simulators. I worked with them for four years. We had some of the trouble above when it turned out the aircraft (and the simulators) would probably be exported to several different countries. So, we would have pilots and techs from several countries training in/on our simulators while we (the programmers) would handle sensitive country-specific information for the aircrafts/simulators. Possibly for more than one country at a time. Those kind of things make a mess. There's actually a computer security model called "Chinese Wall" which take care of that kind of situation. It's still a lot of trouble, though. Hmm, with the coming of armed UAVs and such I wonder what kind of effect the sanity-shattering presence of a Mythos-critter would have on a pilot experiencing it only through a drones cameras? I mean, it's one thing to sneak around a cults cellar and stumble into Y'Golonac ( ) and it's another to sit in an armored bunker and watch the strangely distorted digitized image of a fat naked man before firing your rocket-pod at him. Especially if the line between simulator-training and actual missions start to blur. ("Good morning, gentlemen. Today you will fly a simulated bombing-mission against a small fictive island in the Pacific. Don't let anything distract you, the programmers were in a bit of a strange mood yesterday." ) Hmm, you could even put SSF's (Sanity Software Filters) in a drone set-up. A imaging sub-routine recognizes an outline and substitutes it for something else in the output. ("Strange, it almost looked like the target building turned towards us ...", "I hate those software- bugs. Lock-On!") Do I think it would be that easy? No. ;-) /JoB _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:55 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonas Bolander (ERA)" > > Hmm, you could even put SSF's (Sanity Software Filters) > in a drone set-up. A imaging sub-routine recognizes an > outline and substitutes it for something else in the > output. ("Strange, it almost looked like the target > building turned towards us ...", "I hate those software- > bugs. Lock-On!") Excellent idea: except I have always assumed, in the case of big C and others of his ilk, that the insanity is not a result of just seeing him, but is something directly communicated by his presence to any watching mind. A distortion in reality rather than a pattern of photons. This might mean that *records* or *transmissions* of His manifestations would just be ugly and disturbing, not sanity-distorting. Of course there might be other reasons for using this sofware, just to keep pilots in ignorance. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:11 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology Michael Layne wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > On 17 October 2001, "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" wrote from > Poland: > > >Sidenote: is there any official description how REDLIGHT vehicle looks > >like? > >I've taken liberty to assume that they are operative now, or at least in > >field testing. I need it to make my scenario characters to witness some > >weird flying object (being REDLIGHT craft used for interconintental > >evacuation of failed Majestic OP). > > Well, the Federation of American Scientists has a site > (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/index.html) with some information on the > various US "Mystery Aircraft", some of which may be REDLIGHT projects. Veri interesting page. Thanks. I suggest it should be added to DG.com links section. > If you want to proceed directly to AURORA (which, no, I don't think was > a name for Lockheed's entry in the stealth-bomber competition -- great cover > story, though...), try the AURORA page > (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm). Nor is the hypersonic AURORA > the same as the Canadian variant of the P-3 Orion. (Too bad that plastic > model manufacturer isn't in business any more, or we could have an AURORA > model from Aurora... There _are_ Aurora-type models out there, but they are > made by -- I believe -- Testors! IIRC, one model company (Testors, again) > made a model of the flying disc the USAF (or Majestic) allegedly built using > recovered alien technology...). > > Some data on a proposed spaceplane I wish the USAF would actually get > the courage (and the money) to build before some other nation does can be > found at http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/hypersoar.htm. > > You can find an interesting description of an AURORA-like aircraft in > the novel "Icefire", by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. > > A different (but still excellent) version of a Blackbird successor is > featured in "North Cape", by Joe Poyer. (I like the stealth warship, USS > "Robert F. Kennedy", in Poyer's novel, as well!) While interesting, I wouldn't settle on AURORA if I were MJ member planning this operation (whilch will be probably named GLASS DOOR). The tactical requirements are more of a transport vehicle: some cargo space to fly maximally ten people: Majestic team and some (human) subjects to/from operation site (possibly in Europe), stealth to avoid detection, VTOL with possibilty of cargo deploy in harsh (or at least not prepared/hardened) tereain. Things like hipersonic speed etc would be useful in case the op goes rhino and and the evacuation is chased by infiltrated country's air force. I imagined that for some operations a 'infiltration vehicle' would be required so some along those lines would be required from REDLIGHT. The aircraft not for flying fast and high, but capable on flying low and sneaking into enemy's teriitory to deploy or collect people or intelligence. There would be very limited number of such vehicles and they would be classified TOP SECRET of course. It sounds a little like helicopters but for this type of task helicopter: is not stealth, and has very little chances of escape once its spotted, and has too small flying range. You have to drive a carrier into near waters (invites attention), provide refuelling etc. Am I right? This all sounds more like the secret aircraft from second episode of X-FILES, "The Pilot" in cargo version. Any other suggestions? Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:59 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: DG Vehicle-fondling again (was Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology --- "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" > DOOR). The tactical > requirements are more of a transport vehicle: some > cargo space to fly > maximally ten people: Majestic team and some (human) > subjects to/from > operation site (possibly in Europe), stealth to > avoid detection, VTOL with > possibilty of cargo deploy in harsh (or at least not > prepared/hardened) > tereain. what´s wrong with a classical black helicopter (probably tm) > It sounds a little like helicopters but for this > type of task helicopter: > is not stealth, and has very little chances of > escape once its spotted, and > has too small flying range. You have to drive a > carrier into near waters > (invites attention), provide refuelling etc. > > Am I right? > > This all sounds more like the secret aircraft from > second episode > of X-FILES, "The Pilot" in cargo version. Any other > suggestions? what´s wrong with a carrier as long as he isn´t seen? in ww2 the french and japanese navy had submarines carrying seaplanes, german u-boots experimented with a kind of drawn kite-helicopter. a single seahawk or dauphin sized helicopter an retractable launch platform should fit in the modified rocket bay of a missile carrying nuclear sub. surfacing would only be necessary during takeoff and landing operations. perhaps not all the subs missing at sea were taken by deep ones, but at least one was already redirected to a black ops role. festus __________________________________________________________________ Es ist soweit: das Nokia Game beginnt. Sei bereit für das multimediale Abenteuer. Melde dich bis zum 3. November bei http://de.promotions.yahoo.com/info/nokiagame an! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:34 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology From: Til Eulenspiegel > Did you forget your Pyramid Online password? The playtest copy of >Vehicles Companion is (was?) up. Rather than just crunch numbers, why >don't you post the vehicles in FUDGE or D6 format?' There are vehicle rules for FUDGE??? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:51 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) From: Andy Robertson >This might mean that *records* or *transmissions* of His manifestations >would just be ugly and disturbing, not sanity-distorting. This would be logical, unfortunately the sanity warping effects of the Mythos should not be mitigated by logic. Cause and Effect is a fallacious human belief rendered null and void by the awesome reality of the Great Old Ones. Any attempts at rational thought in the face of the mythos should only serve to expose the fragility of human reason. I would say that the scenes cause the full sanity loss, but that the effect is delayed and stretched over days and weeks as horrible dreams and visions plague the witnesses of recorded mythos images. The deeply disturbing aspects of the images should remain inexplicable. No human mind can comprehend the foulness of the mythos, and no human soul can escape its terrible grip. Using technology to mitigate sanity loss should fail abjectly and miserably as any other munchkin attempt to manipulate the game system. Any such feeble dodges should fail in an appropriately horrific way. After all, this is a nihilistic horror game, and attempts to avoid the horror should only increase it. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > From: Andy Robertson > > >This might mean that *records* or *transmissions* of His manifestations > >would just be ugly and disturbing, not sanity-distorting. > > > This would be logical, unfortunately the sanity warping effects of the > Mythos should not be mitigated by logic. Fair enough. In that case the cybernetic "sanity filters" which agent Bolander speculates about would be ineffective. Though the output from an attack run on R'lyeh might be exactly the same as it is in a harmless training run on a dummy target, it would still carry the SAN hit of seeing one of the GOO. --- *** --- An interesting sideline here: what would happen if it was recorded? Just to reprise the scenario: 1) a GOO manifestation in some remote part of the Earth is being attacked from the air. 2) Pilots who try bare-eyeball attacks go insane: so does anyone who uses remote telemetry. 3) So pilots are being told that they are using simulators, that this is a training run. 4) The simulators replace the GOO by a generic comical or emotionally neutral buffoon-monster. 5) But this still has the effect of driving the pilots mad. Perhaps not so fast. Now, suppose they tape the sessions? What happens to a viewer of the tape? One possibility is that they experience no ill effects - they are not interacting with a GOO. But another is that the tapes still have the effect of driving the viewers insane. This opens all sorts of MJ-12 related naughtiness. A replayable tape that drives folk insane is a weapon, and here is mnuch investigation to be done on it. More: the attacks on the GOO might be taking place *because* they can be used to generate these tapes. The generation of the tapes might be the main reason. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 4:10 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Simulators Just as an interesting aside, NPR was reporting some of the Predator unmanned aerial recon vehicles are now being fitted with Hellfire missiles. They weren't sure if they were currently in Afghanistan. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Robertson [mailto:andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 2:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators Just to reprise the scenario: 1) a GOO manifestation in some remote part of the Earth is being attacked from the air. 2) Pilots who try bare-eyeball attacks go insane: so does anyone who uses remote telemetry. 3) So pilots are being told that they are using simulators, that this is a training run. 4) The simulators replace the GOO by a generic comical or emotionally neutral buffoon-monster. 5) But this still has the effect of driving the pilots mad. Perhaps not so fast. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:11 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Smile for the camera I don't know if Mythos entities should show up on video at all. If characters see what they look like but have SAN loss over time due to Mythos rot, we've nonetheless allowed them to see what the various boogies look like. What is seen is diminished, even if you have to erase some points. Oh sure, I could do some neat munchkinish stuff in an Endtimes scenario. Pilots flying with VR helmets to do some whoopass from above, then they return to base and get their memory of the mission wiped. Naturally, all is futile and this stuff eventually rots their mind, but you can get a half dozen good missions out of a pilot before he gets recycled into a frontline grunt. Ditto with remote drone handlers, but with less strenuous training. No low pressure chamber to trip up cadets, no belly-busters while the DI demands to know what they are doing there....because I have NOWHERE ELSE TO GO!!!! (sob choke) Chime in anytime Andy, this needs some Domain Theory to rationalize the franistat constant. I'm thinking that the sight of a GOO isn't something that is picked up by rods and cones, nevermind video or film. Distortions, maybe an outline that is more what is *not* seen behind it, but no clear image of a GOO. Kirlian photography, however... Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Simulators On 18 October 2001, "Rayburn, Russell E." wrote: >Just as an interesting aside, NPR was reporting some of the Predator >unmanned aerial recon vehicles are now being fitted with Hellfire missiles. > >They weren't sure if they were currently in Afghanistan. Well, Hellfire is a laser-guided antitank guided missile (ATGM), generally carried by Apache and Cobra gunships, though I believe it can also be carried by the A-10 Warthog. Sounds like they are figuring on killing AFVs or bunkers with them... One could probably fly into a cave entrance if a ground party had a clear line of sight to designate an object back in the cave. Besides these more mundane targets (which will amply cover the real reason for this sudden deployment of UACVs (Unmanned Air Combat Vehicles), such a weapon would also blast (for example) a Dark Young right back to wherever he was summoned from. I wonder what would happen if we missed the critter? How long would a DYSN remain on our plane if some sorcerer summoned him, and then happened to stand under an Allied bomb, or got shot in a Taliban purge? Do these things reproduce? A country infested with Dark Young would definitely drive out the Taliban (screaming something about evil djinn -- or would it be afrits?), but it would result in huge numbers of civilian casualties (if only from being trampled) that would be blamed on the Good Guys... We might have to send in Agent DARREN and his boys on a Big Game Hunt... Use a tethered goat for bait, with a quantity of C-4 planted under the goat, with dual electric and nonelectric triggers, fired from a safe distance? Or designate the DYSN with a laser, and have a Harrier deliver a smart bomb? (Either way beats walking up to it with MP-5s and losing half a highly trained team as you find out that bullets do minimum damage!):) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Marc J Cassell [nekonube2k@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:11 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators < Semi - Ring Spoilers > < Semi - Ring Spoilers > On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:17:13 +0100 "Andy Robertson" writes:> > 5) But this still has the effect of driving the pilots mad. > Perhaps not so > fast. > > Now, suppose they tape the sessions? What happens to a viewer of > the tape? > > One possibility is that they experience no ill effects - they are > not > interacting with a GOO. > > But another is that the tapes still have the effect of driving the > viewers > insane. > > > This opens all sorts of MJ-12 related naughtiness. A replayable > tape that > drives folk insane is a weapon, and here is mnuch investigation to > be done > on it. > > More: the attacks on the GOO might be taking place *because* they > can be > used to generate these tapes. The generation of the tapes might be > the > main reason. > > > The Glove Cleaner Bad Glove Cleaner, go watch Ring again, and again, and again, till you see what can be done with a tape of a GOO. In fact what if the tape in Ring was one of these type things that was perverted to a warning by the psychic girl. The Girl understood the danger and tries to warn the viewer of what will happen but in the power of the GOO she becomes the tool of the destruction. That or she is killing the viewers to prevent even worse tortures that would occur from watching a tape with GOO radiation. Why copying the tape and showing it to someone else prevents this is speculation, but it could be that in some minor way the GOO is pleased that it's visage is being passed to others and protects the person. In anycase even those who survived watching the tape obviously suffered SAN loss, which could be from the tape or form the investigation but you never know. Remember let Ring be your guide. Iceweb ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/