From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] (OT) Aligators for Bin Laden! Got this one in the mail: > DON"T GO TO THE BATHROOM ON OCTOBER 28th!!!!!!!! > > > >CIA intelligence reports that a major plot is planned for that day. > >Anyone who takes a poop on the 28th will be bitten on the ass > >by an alligator. Reports indicate that organized groups of alligators > > are planning to rise up into unsuspecting American's toilet bowls > > and bite them when they are doing their dirty business. > > > > I usually don't send emails like this, but I got this information > > from a reliable source. It came from a friend of a friend whose > > cousin is dating this girl whose brother knows this guy whose wife > > knows this lady whose husband buys hotdogs from this guy > > who knows a shoeshine guy who shines the shoes of a mailroom > > worker who has a friend who's drug dealer sells drugs to another > > mailroom worker who works in the CIA building. He apparently > > overheard two guys talking in the bathroom about alligators and > > came to the conclusion that we are going to be attacked. > > > > So it must be true. OBDG: While this one is obviously silly and not meant to be taken seriously... who could be profiting from the manufacture and dispersal of more true-sounding scares? Any ideas? I've got my own, but I'd like some additional inspiration. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jonas Bolander (ERA) [Jonas.Bolander@era.ericsson.se] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:34 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) > -----Original Message----- > From: The Man in Black [mailto:scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 20:51 > To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) > > > From: Andy Robertson > > >This might mean that *records* or *transmissions* of His > manifestations > >would just be ugly and disturbing, not sanity-distorting. > > > This would be logical, unfortunately the sanity warping effects of the > Mythos should not be mitigated by logic. Cause and Effect is a > fallacious human belief rendered null and void by the awesome > reality of > the Great Old Ones. Any attempts at rational thought in the > face of the > mythos should only serve to expose the fragility of human reason. > > I would say that the scenes cause the full sanity loss, but that the > effect is delayed and stretched over days and weeks as horrible dreams > and visions plague the witnesses of recorded mythos images. The deeply > disturbing aspects of the images should remain inexplicable. No human > mind can comprehend the foulness of the mythos, and no human soul can > escape its terrible grip. In which case one could argue that the most insanity-ridden group of employee's in the world would be people who interpret satellite-images. Because if even a distorted image of a GOO causes insanity one has to surmise that shrinking due to distance is not a protective factor and the minimal spot in the corner of quadrant 143-C of Geo-Sat 3's geological survey sat-photo WILL make image-interpreter Johnson bludgeon his work-mates to death with his keyboard, even if he just glanced at the photo ... ;-) But ... hell, I agree with the MiB's comment below. It wouldn't be Call of Cthulhu if it was that easy to circumvent the mind- shattering effects of the GOO. Let them try and then tear their souls apart. > > Using technology to mitigate sanity loss should fail abjectly and > miserably as any other munchkin attempt to manipulate the game system. > Any such feeble dodges should fail in an appropriately horrific way. > After all, this is a nihilistic horror game, and attempts to avoid the > horror should only increase it. Hmm, I would like to propose this theory on images and transmissions of GOO (and other mythos-creatures, but I'll concentrate on the GOOs) : Let's say it's not the appearance of the creature who causes the effects (at least not most of it) but its presence. Nothing new there, That's been mentioned before. Suppose it works like this : a humans mind perceives its surroundings as a sort of "mental space". When it "see" something it makes an internal connection to that part of the "mental space", placing a label in that space, for example "chair". When a human see a GOO it is not the visual input by itself that sends him into madness but the mental/psychic connection to that part of "mental space" which the GOOs otherwordly presence affects psychically. Sort of like sympathetic magic, you use your "mental space" as link to an area, but that link works both ways so the area can likewise affect your "mental space". That would mean that a real-time image of a GOO would affect you as you connect to that place and time the GOO is inhabiting at this moment. An "old" image of a GOO wouldn't have this effect since the mental "connection" isn't tainted by the GOOs presence. Or possibly a time-delay would make the effect a delayed too? As the MiB proposes above. This would mean that drone-pilots would still go insane because even if the software replaces Big C with a fluffy rabbit the pilot would still make a mental connection to the space affected by the GOO. ("A Fluffy Rabbit! Aiiee!" ) And I would probably say that unless you actually make a connection to that "mental space" you can't really _see_ the GOO, so "old" photos would only show indistinct blobs, or something ... What about Tomes then? Possibly the reading of a Mythos-book would once again create a psychic link to the GOO's presence. It's not the information by itself ("Tentacles, tentacles, tentacles. Yawn.") but the mental connection it configures. I'm not sure if this makes sense. Or for that matter if I'm just repeating something that's already been discussed before. In which case I apologize. Comments? Suggestions? /JoB _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Til Eulenspiegel [til_e@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology > -----Original Message----- > From: Janusz A. Urbanowicz > [snip] > My only MJ-4 related idea involved a Delta Green conversion of the > "Music of the Spheres" scenario from Chaosium's "The Stars Are > Right". > Did you ever do anything with this? I moved away before my old CELL F campaign got to "Music of the Spheres". I'd planned to use it and "The Killer Out Of Space" as transitions between the first and second parts of "The New Age." This would've required blending the TNA, pt. 2 and MotS. How did you plan to change MotS? dugger@vss.fsi.com : duggerj1@home.com : til_e@hotmail.com "The hell it can't!" - --Sinclair Lewis. _It Can't Happen Here_ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO8+o7CjXCkSehE2kEQJD6ACfWuCnnWpdBD1/xpBT4NmoaqwEBOAAoLnR d6UrpwTpb7vLDQspPJ7vAarZ =048o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 6:54 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc J Cassell" > > Bad Glove Cleaner, go watch Ring again, and again, and again, till you > see what can be done with a tape of a GOO. Hmmmph. Cheeky young pup. Still, I will do as you say, your words carry conviction, I am sure you are right. Something new to learn!! The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 6:51 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Smile for the Resonator ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > Oh sure, I could do some neat munchkinish stuff in an Endtimes scenario. > Pilots flying with VR helmets to do some whoopass from above, then they > return to base and get their memory of the mission wiped. Since the GOO also exist in other dimensions/domains then yes, they would generate other-domain radiations that human beings might pick up, assuming the human to have other-domain components of its own. On this point see http://home.clara.net/andywrobertson/dsl_issue01_01_short.html#brainstem ---- **** ---- This is just the "From Beyond" scenario writ large - with the presence of Mythos entities standing in for a Tillinghast resonator. The human organism is stimulated to develop new and latent senses by the impact of other-domain radiations. ---- **** ---- This leads to another interesting question: whether the greater Mythos entity may be thought of as acting act a bit like a Tilliinghast resonator, just by its presence. I suggest that in some cases the effects and warpings of T radiation, or of kindred auras, may be exploited by the GOO in their own "metabolism". It could be as basic to them as the Krebs cycle is to us. But totally controlled. The T radiation angle may give another handle on why the tapes continue to hold their SAN charge. They are "infected", like all material subject to T radiation. ((But in this case I suspect it is not the exact T radiation that the Resonator produces, but another and more controlled phenomenon. More controlled because it has been exploited in the GOO metabiolism. And therefore not so avid to spread uncontrollably. Perhaps.)) The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG Vehicle-fondling again (was Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology =?iso-8859-1?q?Dirk=20R.=20Festus=20Festerling?= wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > --- "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" > > > DOOR). The tactical > > requirements are more of a transport vehicle: some > > cargo space to fly > > maximally ten people: Majestic team and some (human) > > subjects to/from > > operation site (possibly in Europe), stealth to > > avoid detection, VTOL with > > possibilty of cargo deploy in harsh (or at least not > > prepared/hardened) > > tereain. > > what_s wrong with a classical black helicopter > (probably tm) Range. > > It sounds a little like helicopters but for this > > type of task helicopter: > > is not stealth, and has very little chances of > > escape once its spotted, and > > has too small flying range. You have to drive a > > carrier into near waters > > (invites attention), provide refuelling etc. > > > > Am I right? > > > > This all sounds more like the secret aircraft from > > second episode > > of X-FILES, "The Pilot" in cargo version. Any other > > suggestions? > > what_s wrong with a carrier as long as he isn_t seen? Acquisition of a heli carrier for an operation is a major administrative task. It turns simple 20-person black hush-hush operation into a major intelligence enterprise. And leaves a paper trail mile wide. It makes organizator to go outside his own departament to organize all stuff needed. Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG Vehicle-fondling again (was Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology > Acquisition of a heli carrier for an operation is a > major administrative > task. It turns simple 20-person black hush-hush > operation into a major > intelligence enterprise. And leaves a paper trail > mile wide. It makes > organizator to go outside his own departament to > organize all stuff needed. if the long distance vtol vehicle you´d like to use has a fuel consumption similar in any way to existing machines, you´d still need some refueling unit. and redirecting any airborne gas station would probably leave a comparable paper trail than any designated black ops ship, not to mention the radar signature. festus pouting in the corner and still liking submarines __________________________________________________________________ Es ist soweit: das Nokia Game beginnt. Sei bereit für das multimediale Abenteuer. Melde dich bis zum 3. November bei http://de.promotions.yahoo.com/info/nokiagame an! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:57 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG Vehicle-fondling again (was Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology =?iso-8859-1?q?Dirk=20R.=20Festus=20Festerling?= wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > Acquisition of a heli carrier for an operation is a > > major administrative > > task. It turns simple 20-person black hush-hush > > operation into a major > > intelligence enterprise. And leaves a paper trail > > mile wide. It makes > > organizator to go outside his own departament to > > organize all stuff needed. > > > if the long distance vtol vehicle you_d like to use > has a fuel consumption similar in any way to existing > machines, you_d still need some refueling unit. and > redirecting any airborne gas station would probably > leave a comparable paper trail than any designated > black ops ship, not to mention the radar signature. So the question is, does the BUCKET need refueling frequenstly ? I suppose not. > pouting in the corner and still liking submarines Subs are ok. But not just now. Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of L. Abdul Baan [lordabdul@vachefolle.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 11:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Re: here's a how d'yo do > If so, this could afford DG and other such agencies an > additional weapon > in its occult-related operations! The ubiquitous cell-phone > carried by the > agent would not only allow him or her to report supernatural > activity, but > would repel supernatural Threat forces! A careful study would need to be > conducted to see just how much protection, and from which entities, the > phones afford. That would result in an oscillation of supernatural activity : 1- there are paranormal forces out there. Agents report to Cell-A with their cell phones. 2- the use of cell phones makes the ghost go away. There are less and less things to report. 3- the use of the phones decrease since there is nothing left to report. 4- the ghost come back 5- the paranormal events start again and the agents report that to Cell-A. After a while, ghost will be really upset. > On the gripping hand, another possibility is that, rather > than killing > or repelling the SNEM (Super Natural Entity Manifestations), the phone > signals attract them! In such a case, the reason the ghosts have > not been > sighted in areas of phone activity is that the SNEMs have moved into the > phones themselves, in order to remain near the source of the > signal! In a > manner of speaking, the phones become haunted! well, that would explain why there are so many fucking phones ringing when you're at the movies !! ("no, seriously guys, I turned it off ! It's just that it's haunted !") Abdul. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 2:39 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] (OT) Aligators for Bin Laden! On 19 October 2001, "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" allegated -- er, alleged: >Got this one in the mail: > >> DON"T GO TO THE BATHROOM ON OCTOBER 28th!!!!!!!! (Alligator warning snipped in the interests of bandwidth...) Americans should have no fear of these alligations, however, as: 1. I've been informed that American sewer lines are equipped with one-way valves downstream of the toilet, for just such a contingency! 2. In anticipation of such a dastardly attack by reptiles (the alligations say) serving the Forces of Darkness (tm), the Good Guys (tm) have activated CROC (Crocodile Ranger Operations Command)! These fearless American fighting reptiles have even now been sent into the sewer systems of this great nation, to patrol it against Afghan alligator incursions! Others, disguised as luggage, will be temporarily serving in an air-marshal capacity aboard an undisclosed number of commercial flights! Rumor has it that the Lizard King himself has been asked to serve as honorary Colonel of their Regiment! So, to quote the unit's motto: "Have no fear! CROC is here!" > >OBDG: While this one is obviously silly and not meant to be taken >seriously... who could be profiting from the manufacture and dispersal of >more true-sounding scares? A variety of people (including but not at all limited to Bin Laden's organization). See Eric Frank Russel's excellent novel "Wasp", for examples of how a small number of people (or even one clever person) can produce widespread panic. (IIRC, there's some mention of it in the Ice Cave...) Allegedly -- er, reportedly, about a half-dozen pranksters giving false anthrax warnings have already been arrested in various parts of the US. Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "We have heard these allegations, and intend to do something about the allegators!" -- CROC spokeslizard _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 3:49 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) I like the idea that the GOO project an *aura* around them which taps into some higher plane - the same place people tap into with psychic powers and the 'sixth sense.' This means that even if the people see a fluffy white rabbit, they'll get the aura: 'Hell, that was like no rabbit I'VE ever seen. Why, even now, when I go to sleep, I get these dreams...it turns into something...else. Something more amorphous...and nastier... In short, has to be physical presence or close to it(I'm thinking about in dreams here) to affect people, but you can't avoid it. You don't detect and get affected by the GOO on a conventional level that we can understand. Voidchaser, Maker Of Gratuitous Book References, Secret Agent Man, Mind Blaster of Unsuspecting Psychics.(you see Cthulhu. You all fail your SAN checks. You, Mr ESP, take double loss. Have a nice day :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: The Man in Black [mailto:scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 20:51 > To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) > > > From: Andy Robertson > > >This might mean that *records* or *transmissions* of His > manifestations > >would just be ugly and disturbing, not sanity-distorting. > > > This would be logical, unfortunately the sanity warping effects of the > Mythos should not be mitigated by logic. Cause and Effect is a > fallacious human belief rendered null and void by the awesome > reality of > the Great Old Ones. Any attempts at rational thought in the > face of the > mythos should only serve to expose the fragility of human reason. > > I would say that the scenes cause the full sanity loss, but that the > effect is delayed and stretched over days and weeks as horrible dreams > and visions plague the witnesses of recorded mythos images. The deeply > disturbing aspects of the images should remain inexplicable. No human > mind can comprehend the foulness of the mythos, and no human soul can > escape its terrible grip. > >In which case one could argue that the most insanity-ridden >group of employee's in the world would be people who interpret >satellite-images. Because if even a distorted image of a GOO >causes insanity one has to surmise that shrinking due to >distance is not a protective factor and the minimal spot in >the corner of quadrant 143-C of Geo-Sat 3's geological survey >sat-photo WILL make image-interpreter Johnson bludgeon his >work-mates to death with his keyboard, even if he just glanced >at the photo ... ;-) > >But ... hell, I agree with the MiB's comment below. It wouldn't >be Call of Cthulhu if it was that easy to circumvent the mind- >shattering effects of the GOO. Let them try and then tear their >souls apart. > > > Using technology to mitigate sanity loss should fail abjectly and > miserably as any other munchkin attempt to manipulate the game system. > Any such feeble dodges should fail in an appropriately horrific way. > After all, this is a nihilistic horror game, and attempts to avoid the > horror should only increase it. > >Hmm, I would like to propose this theory on images and >transmissions of GOO (and other mythos-creatures, but >I'll concentrate on the GOOs) : > >Let's say it's not the appearance of the creature who >causes the effects (at least not most of it) but its >presence. Nothing new there, That's been mentioned >before. > >Suppose it works like this : a humans mind perceives >its surroundings as a sort of "mental space". When it "see" something it makes an internal connection to >that part of the "mental space", placing a label in >that space, for example "chair". When a human see a >GOO it is not the visual input by itself that sends >him into madness but the mental/psychic connection >to that part of "mental space" which the GOOs >otherwordly presence affects psychically. > >Sort of like sympathetic magic, you use your "mental >space" as link to an area, but that link works both >ways so the area can likewise affect your "mental space". > >That would mean that a real-time image of a GOO would >affect you as you connect to that place and time the >GOO is inhabiting at this moment. > >An "old" image of a GOO wouldn't have this effect >since the mental "connection" isn't tainted by >the GOOs presence. Or possibly a time-delay would >make the effect a delayed too? As the MiB proposes >above. > >This would mean that drone-pilots would still go >insane because even if the software replaces >Big C with a fluffy rabbit the pilot would still >make a mental connection to the space affected >by the GOO. >("A Fluffy Rabbit! Aiiee!" ) > >And I would probably say that unless you actually >make a connection to that "mental space" you can't >really _see_ the GOO, so "old" photos would only >show indistinct blobs, or something ... > >What about Tomes then? Possibly the reading of a >Mythos-book would once again create a psychic >link to the GOO's presence. It's not the information >by itself ("Tentacles, tentacles, tentacles. Yawn.") >but the mental connection it configures. > >I'm not sure if this makes sense. Or for that matter >if I'm just repeating something that's already been >discussed before. In which case I apologize. > >Comments? Suggestions? > > >/JoB >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 3:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] (OT) Aligators for Bin Laden! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > Rumor has it that the > Lizard King himself has been asked to serve as honorary Colonel of their > Regiment! So, to quote the unit's motto: "Have no fear! CROC is here!" In these dangerous times it is essential to watch everything we say. Or think. Loose lips sink Tillinghast Resonator equipped ships after all. In any case, I am not at liberty to confirm or deny such rumors even if I was disposed to confirm or deny such rumors. Which I'm not, because they are just rumors after all. Honest. To the best of my recollection at this point in time. Besides, I'm a brown-shoe Airdale, not from the Gator Navy. Ba dum ching. Nothing to see here, everyone go back to your designated shelter. Thank you. Mark McFadden "Point Five, pack extra tonic with the gin. Anthrax donchaknow. Bloody savages. And lay in a few extra bandoliers of Rhodesian Jungle Rounds." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bill Nichols [themaninawhitecar@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 4:42 PM To: Delta Green List; Strange Aeons Subject: [DG] Goatswood! I am cross-posting this for obvious reasons, but for those who receive it twice, I nevertheless apologize in advance. Today I received the copy of "Goatswood and less pleasant places" I pre-ordered, and let me tell you, it's worth it. Not only do you get the Severn Valley information and a section on "The Campbell Mythos" (which includes a useful but not overwhelming amount of necessary information about England for the non-English, including current firearms laws), but you also get NINE scenarios. Congratulations to Mssrs. Aniolowski and Sumpter, as well as to Chaosium! Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) From: Jonas Bolander (ERA) >Hmm, I would like to propose this theory on images and >transmissions of GOO (and other mythos-creatures, but >I'll concentrate on the GOOs) : You're missing the point. Trying to rationalize Sanity loss is futile. If you play the tape on CNN or look at satellite pics of Great Old Ones, there is no sanity loss to the general public per se. Although if CNN reports that a huge monstrous creature has risen out of the Pacific and shows video, that might be worth 1/1d6. It all depends on the context. Trying to interpret and predict insanity is pointless. There is no "feeling of sanity loss" because every sanity shattering occurance is different. But if you try to filter the experience through technology, you simply alter the form of the insanity instead of lessening it. The point I'm trying to make is that the mechanistic view of sanity is a false one. Reasoned theories and logical patterns have no place in the universe of the Mythos, except as human fallacy. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology From: Til Eulenspiegel > Did you ever do anything with this? I moved away before my old >CELL F campaign got to "Music of the Spheres". I'd planned to use it >and "The Killer Out Of Space" as transitions between the first and >second parts of "The New Age." This would've required blending the >TNA, pt. 2 and MotS. How did you plan to change MotS? Well basically, the whole Radio Astronomy facility was merely a cover for MJ-4 Project SIGMA. The plot was to have Gavin Ross orchestrate the removal of Dr. Lounds as SIGMA director. This would be done by having Charlie Bostick leak info to Delta Green about Grey involvement in the area (Greys replacing Mi-Go), and the resulting cowboy operation disaster blamed on Lounds. It might also be possible to have Delta Green assassinate Lounds, or have the Greys remove his brain. This would have allowed a more humanocentric person (with SETI contacts) to take his place on the Steering Committee. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:36 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology On 17 October 2001, "The Man in Black" wrote: >From: Til Eulenspiegel > > > > Arleigh Burke-class destroyers show up very nicely on naval > >surface radars, including fire control radars. > >Everything I've read about this destroyer indicates that stealth was >incorporated into it's design, but not as a "total stealth" package, but >more along a "reduce the signature where we can" sort of thing. In other >words, an equivalent sized tub of steel 50 years ago would be detectable >at much greater ranges. I agree with that conclusion. (Yes, people, I can agree with the MiB!):) While not as stealthy as they perhaps could be, the DDG-51s have a lower RCS than their "Spruance" and "Forrest Sherman" class predecessors. Their webpage at the FAS site (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/ddg-51.htm), for example, mentions that the ships are "designed to incorporate shaping techniques to reduce radar cross-section, to reduce their detectability and likelihood of being targeted by enemy weapons and sensors". Stealthier yet will be the "Zumwalt" or DD-21 class of surface combatants (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/dd-21.htm), and the more-capable CG-21 ships (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cg-21.htm) planned to supplant the "Ticonderoga" class cruisers. The DD-21/CG-21 program was formerly called SC-21 ("21st Century Surface Combatant")... (DD-21 and CG-21 are hopefully not going to actually be the hull numbers of the lead ships of the classes -- the program names were simply designations for "21st Century Destroyer" and "21st Century Cruiser", just as the SSN-21 ("Seawolf") designation simply meant "21st Century SSN" when the program was named. Designating the "Seawolf" boats with numbers starting from 21 was apparently the decision of someone who didn't realize or care that the Navy doesn't normally re-use a hull number (or pennant number) within type! This would be even worse with the "Zumwalt" class and the CG-21, as the low hull numbers would conflict with those of recent or existing warships of the type, to the dismay of Navy records systems! Technically the "Zumwalts" would be guided missile destroyers (DDG), and should be assigned hull numbers in a block after or within those projected for the later "Arleigh Burkes"...) Anyway, returning to the stealthy subject, the "Zumwalt" class should have stealth and sensor capabilities similar to those depicted by author James H. Cobb for the destroyer "Cunningham" in his novel "Choosers of the Slain". Besides the stealthy hull configuration, use is made of advanced RAM such as a "wetball" coating, over composite armor. The ship also is equipped with extensive ECM and decoys such as Super RBOC. Propulsion components are "rafted" in the machinery spaces to reduce acoustic emissions. Like the fictional "Cunningham", the "Zumwalt" may be able to embark a pair of navalized AH-64 "Comanche" (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/rah-66.htm) helos. (Cobb terms them SAH-66 "Sea Comanches") These helos have low-observability characteristics, themselves, and, in the "Sea Comanche" variant, would mount an APG-65 radar in the nose, plus being able to carry a number of pods with such sensor systems as dunking sonars, MAD equipment, and the Shearwater AEW system. Ordnance capabilities would include various torpedoes, missiles, depth charges, and gun pods. (There is precedent for this... sort of! A warship-based variant of the AH-64 "Apache" was projected but never produced. A stealth warship should have stealth helos, and the SH-60 Seahawk, while a capable helo, isn't especially stealthy. Navalizing the "Comanche" would be easier -- technologically, and probably financially and politically ("new variant of an existing design, not a new program start") than developing a new naval stealth helo.) Interestingly, one of the illustrations from the DD-21 program (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/dd-21-3.jpg) found its way onto the cover of my paperback edition of "Choosers of the Slain"! > > > I hear the Eurofighter, like the F-22, relies more on active > >stealth (i.e., electronic warfare) than the passive stealth > >characteristics coming from its design. > >I heard the early Eurofighter designs were something like a smaller, >more maneuverable YF-22, but politics, bureaucratic compromise and >technical risk aversion watered down the more radical philosophies. Some of the artist's concepts and possible designs for the Eurofighter (now the "Typhoon II", I believe) had it looking like the Northrop YF-23, the competing design to the YF-22 in the USAF next-gen fighter comp. The 23 (unofficially the "Black Widow II") was allegedly somewhat stealthier than the 22, but not quite as maneuverable. The USAF understandably decided to take maneuverability over stealth, and there may have been similar considerations by the RAF, Luftwaffe, etc in the case of the "Typhoon II". But, yes, the factors the MiB mentions do dog aircraft design, on both sides of the Atlantic! (Makes you wonder if Severn Aerospace built a couple of YF-23 like prototypes they aren't telling anybody about, and which fly only at night?) > >I rethought this whole aerial infiltration vehicle concept. Mucking >about with modulation and EMF wizardry is too complicated (although >counter-rotating "white noise" twin rotors might play a role here). >Anyway, I'm now convinced that in the future, tilt-rotorcraft and >helicopters will be more suited to large scale non-stealthy operations >than Special Operations. There was some discussion of this on the C-130mail list awhile back (pre 11 Sep). They came to much the same conclusion you did. The CV-22 will be a great SpecOps aircraft, in that it combines airplane and helicopter characteristics. It would be ideal for the commandos in the current Afghan unpleasantness, and its problems are probably going to get straightened out in the next year, if the funds continue at the present pace. However, the big proprotors aren't stealthy, and coating the bird in RAM will do only so much! The SpecOps community is hoping for a less observable bird with the Osprey's performance, though they admit that's likely to be a long time coming -- especially given the regular military's past attitude toward special equipment for SpecOps! (If SpecOps actually is successful in Afghanistan, some of this attitude may change...) > >Special Operations infiltration craft in the future will use vectored >thrust. This vehicle would look a lot like a stealth version of the >DropShip used by the Colonial Marines in Aliens. Vectored thrust >propulsion allows the turbofan intakes or whatever to be covered with >radar reflecting grating. We still have the infrared signature to deal >with, but I'm sure there are ways around that. One possibility that has been mentioned is the aerodyne. This is a Frisbee-like aircraft using the Coanda effect. Blast a film of fast-moving air down over the top of the Frisbee, and you decrease the pressure and generate lift! All the impellers and other moving parts are inside the saucer -- er, the plane! Especially with a RAM coating, it may be nearly as stealthy as the B-2 (or at least the YB-49). The late G. Harry Stine was featuring aircraft using this principle in some of his military fiction -- including three novels of the "Starsea Invaders" series, which dealt with a submersible aircraft carrier fighting AUSMs (Alien Underwater Sea Monsters -- one of the characters' abbreviations, not mine):) I believe Dean Ing mentions aerodynes in his essay on 21st Century fighting vehicles, as well, and Martin Caidin had the bad guys using aerodynes in the 30s in the novel "Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates". According to the STTNG Tech Manual, the Captain's Yacht for NCC-1701-D was designed to operate as an aerodyne while in atmosphere! One disadvantage of the aerodyne -- if you lose power, you can't autorotate! You would be gliding like a big Frisbee, until you restarted the engine(s) or until the ground came up to hit you! > >This Stealth Dropship might well include anti-gravity propulsion if it's >a Project REDLIGHT aircraft. This craft probably wouldn't be used on NRO >DELTA operations for security reasons. Of course, if the antigrav ship had a similar outward configuration to the Frisbee-like aerodyne, the data on the aerodyne could be made public (at least as much as that for the Osprey or the U-2). After "Aviation Week" and the papers have published photos of the aerodyne taking off vertically and shifting to horizontal flight, and such, you could fly the antigrav ship with virtual impunity (so long as you don't get carried away and get photographed doing something an aerodyne can't). People who see it would simply think it's one of the aerodynes! >Hell, if you're really crazy, >make it submersible as well, a FLYING FISH. The Air Force's first >submarine. Remember the Flying Sub from "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea"? Circular flying wing? Lifting body? Aerodyne? Being water-based, such a craft would be the subject of a turf battle between the USAF and USN -- much like the case with the P-6M SeaMaster in the late 50s. (The Navy intended to use the P-6M as a minelayer and ASW patrol aircraft, but the USAF was worried the Navy was trying to invade the strategic bomber business!) The Navy would likely win, as the Air Force has no submarine training program that would be usable for the underwater portion of operations! Another Flying Sub design -- this one closer to the Convair F2Y Sea Dart water-based delta-wing fighter plane -- appeared in Popular Science (or was it Popular Mechanics?) back in the 60s. Nothing apparently came of this one... but it may have actually become a "black" program...:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology On 17 October 2001, "The Man in Black" wrote: > >> The Man in Black is : > > busy scheduling a 7C chat session, right? > > >No, I'm not... Personally, I'd prefer PBEM, as I don't do the chat thing... But, that's just me...:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) Personally, I think you have to take every GOO on a case by case basis. Some are solid, some are liquid, some are gas and some are... something else. Maybe all at once! And these factors will play into how they're recorded, if at all. Cthulhu, for example, could probably be videotaped. But you'd find what's left of the tape in what's left of the camera in a large, red pile of mush that's what's left of the investigator who stood there taping instead of doing what any sane man should have done - ie. RLF. Ghan. turns people into mummies. What does It do to film? Maybe the same radiation that turns people to mummies screws up the film like an X-ray will. Nyogtha just doesn't reflect worth a damn. You take a picture, and no matter how much you got the flash up, it won't show up as anything more than a big, black spot - almost as if someone's film got a hole in it. etc etc etc J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:28 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG Vehicle-fondling again (was Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology On 18 October 2001, "Dirk R. Festus Festerling" wrote: >what´s wrong with a carrier as long as he isn´t seen? > >in ww2 the french and japanese navy had submarines >carrying seaplanes, german u-boots experimented with a >kind of drawn kite-helicopter. a single seahawk or >dauphin sized helicopter an retractable launch >platform should fit in the modified rocket bay of a >missile carrying nuclear sub. >surfacing would only be necessary during takeoff and >landing operations. The French sub was the "Surcouf", and the Japanese boats were the I-400 class. (See the U-boats section of "Emerald Hammer" for additional details.) The Royal Navy also experimented with airplane-carrying submarines, but their experimental vessel was lost prior to WWII when someone forgot to secure the hangar door before diving the boat! (OOPS!) The USN had three submarines with hull hangars. Two were the diesel boats "Greyback" and "Growler", adaptions of the "Darter" class (last US diesel attack sub design) which each had a pair of cylindrical hangars in the bow for the Regulus cruise missile. (This missile was about the size of a small jet fighter, IIRC...) They made several patrols with the Regulus I, and apparently test-fired the more advanced Regulus II, but that missile was not operationally deployed, and the boats were eventually used to support SpecOps, carrying commandos and vehicles in the hangars. Neither is still in Navy service, and one is now a museum docked in (IIRC) New York. The third was the USS "Halibut", a stretched version of the "Skate" class with a missile hangar integrated into the forward torpedo room, giving the boat a distinctive "hump" at the bow. "Halibut" was also intended to fire the Regulus, and made a few patrols with the missile. Rather than carrying SEALs, she was used in the intelligence-gathering role. (I recommend "Blind Man's Bluff" for a good account of her work in cable-tapping and the like.) Eventually replaced by the converted "Sturgeon" class boat "Parche" in the intelligence role, she was decommissioned, and sent to the Puget Sound Navy Yard for scrapping. From the data I've seen, she's gone, now. (Too bad!) For a few years, there has been some talk of converting the first four of the "Ohio" class SSBNs to a SpecOps role, rather than refitting them to fire the newer Trident II missile. (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/ssgn-726.htm) While most of the ideas are for replacing the missile tubes with airlocks and equipment storage for the SEALs, it would probably be possible to install a hull hangar for a couple of VTOL aircraft. (There was a novel -- "Thunder of Erebus"? -- which featured a similar converted SSBN, supporting SpecOps in the Antarctic region...) An "Ohio" would have the space to carry the aircraft, plus an elevator, jet fuel tanks, stowage for ordnance, etc., though maintenance is likely to be a bit tight, and the upper casing might have to be modified a bit to serve as a better landing deck. Also, there was a feature by Frank Tinsley in a long ago (1960?) "Mechanix Illustrated" magazine, featuring a submersible assault carrier. The boat would have landed her commandos with versions of the Piasecki ducted-fan "flying jeep". The hull was wide, with a flat dorsal surface, and the sail aft of the hangar and elevators. The outer hull covered two side-by-side pressure hulls, each with its own reactor and propulsion system. (The reason for using two hulls was to keep the draft reasonable, while still affording enough volume for the troops, "flying jeeps", weapons, etc.) Thinking about it now, I can see that the design more than slightly resembled the Russian "Typhoon" class SSBN -- though this was years before the launch of the first "Typhoon"! This was probably just coincidental... I really doubt Russian sub designers get their ideas from "Mechanix Illustrated"! The sub-carrier was a concept design, and was never actually built! (Or, if it was, nobody ever admitted it...) Speaking of "Typhoon" class boats, William Keith wrote two novels ("Sharuq" and "Barracuda" were the titles, IIRC) featuring a "Typhoon", bought by the USN from the Russians, serving as a mother ship for a squadron of fighters. However, these were high-performance submarine fighters -- single-seat, negative-buoyancy craft designed to operate like underwater airplanes! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jim Clunie [jim_clunie@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 9:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) >From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" > >Ghan. turns people into mummies. What does It do to film? Maybe the same >radiation that turns people to mummies screws up the film like an X-ray >will. > I believe G would photograph surprisingly well. In "Out of the Aeons", it left an image on the back of someone's _eyeball_ detailed enough to petrify someone looking at it. Jim C _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 1:47 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of The Man in Black > Sent: October 15, 2001 9:55 AM > To: DGML > Subject: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology > > > 4) Sonar Invisibility: Although this Man in Black has little fundamental > understanding of the science involved, it seems vaguely possible to > translate some of the capabilities of radar reflection and absorbtion to > sound waves. If this is true, then the SEA SHADOW concept vessel > undoubtedly exists to develop this potential. It's above the water, twin > hulled design might be a clever dodge to disguise it's true purpose as a > silent running technology platform, or even as a floating shell to > conceal a Secret Stealth Submarine better suited for anti-sonar than > anti-radar. The design might also be to conceal the launch of > super-cavitating torpedoes, or other deployments of other things such as > special operations troops or deep submergence vessels into the water. > The SEA SHADOW tender, the SKY SHADOW cruise missile, and the SILENT > SHADOW submarine could present the triple crown of naval stealth. > Most of the "anti-sonar" technology is open source and widely utilized in general industry. Most modern submarines utilize passive sound suppression technology in the form of anechoic coatings on the exterior of the vessel. There has been speculation that these coatings also reduce drag which would either increase maximum speed, reduce fuel consumption and/or reduce noise generation. If these coatings behave like any other sound absorbing material, it would also reduce the echo produced by active sonar. The anechoic coating may also provide some measure of anti-radar protection. The coatings are probably multi-layer rubber composites that would reduce a radar signature. The periscopes (and probably snorkels of diesel-electric boats) of modern submarines use a combination of design and stealth coatings to reduce the radar signature. Inside the ship, a variety techniques are used to reduce the generation of noise and transmission to the hull. This is a combination of design, application of sound absorptive coatings and isolation of noise sources from the hull. Power plants and pumps are commonly mounted on springs to reduce the amount of noise transmitted to the hull. Outside, there apparently has been considerable research to reduce the noise produced by the propeller. Where submarine designers are probably going is noise cancellation technology. This technology measures the sound produced by a source, or received by a target, and produces a sound that is equal in intensity but 180 degrees out of phase from the original. The result is cancellation of the sound wave. The most common applications of this technology are headsets and helmets used by pilots and aircrew, although they are available to the public as hearing protection devices. There has been some application to reduce environmental noise produced by stacks or other fixed sources. The technology works best with steady noise with a few dominant frequencies, exactly what a submarine designer is concerned with. The limiting factor with noise cancellation technology was computing power, and that continually improves. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fly Gunfondler Air! On 17 October 2001, "Michael Layne" used a singular where he should have typed a plural, in listing one of the AC-130 URLs: > > The official USAD Fact Sheet on the AC-130 >(http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/AC_130H_U_Gunship.html) USAF... I don't think the USAD has any Fact Sheets on AC-130s!:) > "Death From a Spectre Moon" (nice site!) >(http://member.tripod.com/~allen8633/ Should be: http://members.tripod.com/~allen8633/ Sorry! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology On 18 October 2001, "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" wrote: >While interesting, I wouldn't settle on AURORA if I were MJ member planning >this operation (whilch will be probably named GLASS DOOR). The tactical >requirements are more of a transport vehicle: some cargo space to fly >maximally ten people: Majestic team and some (human) subjects to/from >operation site (possibly in Europe), stealth to avoid detection, VTOL with >possibilty of cargo deploy in harsh (or at least not prepared/hardened) >tereain. Things like hipersonic speed etc would be useful in case the op >goes rhino and and the evacuation is chased by infiltrated country's air >force. There are some aircraft in the works that could meet some (though not all) of these requirements. The most difficult would be the VTOL capability -- integrating that into a stealthy design requires such things as internally mounted lift engines or fans, or some form of thrust vectoring from the main engines. As we have seen with the Harrier, JSF, and various other V/STOL aircraft, this adds considerable weight and complexity, though it is well worth it for some operations. Rather than vertical flight, you might consider air-cushion landing gear. This would enable you to operate from any meadow, swamp, ice field, body of water, etc. that was long enough for the aircraft to take off and land. The US Air Force experimented with such a system in the 1980s or so, using a modified DHC "Buffalo" transport they nicknamed the "Puffalo". As the air cushion had no brakes, they had to steer the "Buffalo" with the engines while taxiing, and rely entirely on reverse pitch to halt the airplane when landing. Also, if you planned to turn the air cushion off while grounded, you had best remember to park the airplane on a surface that it won't sink into! While the Air Force's air-cushion system wasn't put into production, due to cost and complexity, the idea of the combination airplane and hovercraft occasionally makes a reappearance -- especially when outsize aircraft are considered... One such outsize aircraft is likely the USAF's projected GRA (Global Reach Aircraft) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/gra.htm). Using a Blended Wing Body (BWB) design, it looks a little like a transport version of the B-2, and, with appropriate RAM surfaces, might be fairly stealthy. It might be a bit large for your GLASS DOOR program -- some 280 feet in wingspan -- but can probably carry any equipment any of your projects requires! (Load intact UFOs into the cargo hold?) The design specifications were "150,000 lbs payload over a 12,000 nm range", and the data on the webpage mention a capability of "231,000 lbs payload more than 7,000 nm at a cruise speed of approximately 560 mph". (This is about twice the capacity of a Boeing 747-400.) If necessary, the design could probably be scaled down to produce a smaller version about the size of a C-130... If hypersonic speed is actually a requirement, you could instead use something like the Hypersoar (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/hypersoar.htm). About the size of a B-52, this planned aerospace craft can fly at 6,700 mph (Mach 10) "while carrying roughly twice the payload of subsonic aircraft at the same takeoff weight". It extends its range by making shallow skips off the atmosphere, a little like the old Sanger rocket bomber idea. Here (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/hypersoarHawaii.jpg) is a picture of it overflying the MiB's house. Note that the Hypersoar would not be extremely stealthy -- when the engines are operating, it could probably be detected at a considerable distance by the IR and radar signatures of its exhaust plume! Also, it would probably require a hard-surfaced runway, and (if operating at maximum range) large quantities of hydrogen fuel, at its destination, which hardly makes it a craft you would be operating out of the boonies! Another possibility is to employ misdirection rather than stealth. Simply use a type of plane (in appropriate markings) that routinely flies in and out of the area in question. Something like a Douglas DC-3 might do for your purposes, allowing you to save the GRA for really outsize cargo, or the Hypersoar for when you have to cross the Atlantic in half an hour... While a 70 year old design, the DC-3 (also called the C-47, R4D, Dakota, and various other designations) is remarkably rugged and versatile, and able to operate out of airstrips that are fairly short by the standards of jet airliners! Many are still in use, and there are a considerable number of variants, including some using turboprop engines. There was even a prototype built of an amphibious floatplane version back in WWII! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:24 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Killingry-Fondling, was Re: [DG] Speculations about Stealth Technology On 20 October 2001, "Michael Layne" wrote: >Here >(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/hypersoarHawaii.jpg) is a picture of >it overflying the MiB's house. Actually it's http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/HypersoarHawaii.jpg! Just a case of things being case-sensitive...:) And if you look _really_ carefully, and have good enough eyes, you can see the MiB and Buzz standing outside, looking up at the Hypersoar!:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com P.S.: Just kidding about the MiB and Buzz... The picture's reasonably high-res, but not quite _that_ good!:) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 9:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) >I believe G would photograph surprisingly well. In "Out of the Aeons", it >left an image on the back of someone's _eyeball_ detailed enough to petrify >someone looking at it. Okay - excuse my medical ignorance, but is it at all normal for images to be left in the back of someone's eyeball? The last I heard, that was an old superstition. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 2:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] THE SECOND CHALLENGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To recap for the newbies and the short of memory: "The Challenge from Beyond" was a little experiment back in 1935, wherein Fantasy Magazine asked 5 weird fiction authors (CL Moore, A Merritt, HP Lovecraft, Robert E Howard, and Frank Belknap Long) to write a "round-robin" style story, each of them writing one brief chapter and then turning it over to the next. The result was, well, pretty bad actually, but not as bad as the truly awful science-fiction Challenge that ran concurrently (written by Stanley Weinbaum, Donald Wandrei, Edward E "Doc" Smith, Harl Vincent, and Murray Leinster). Those interested can order a nice little pamphlet with both Challenges from Necronomicon Press for a mere $4.95, available through the Outsider: http://www.tccorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv At this time last year, on a whim, I announced the "Challenge from Beyond 2000," inviting anyone on the list to sign up and write a chapter in a similar round-robin format. I expected maybe a dozen volunteers...but the call resulted in a veritable flood of writers! The "CfB2K" provided a sort of sideline of fun for 10 months before it was finally finished off with a great final chapter by Davide Mana, who has also been maintaining the Challenge site at http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/Robin.htm . And you know--taken as a whole, I think we did a better job than those greats did 66 years ago. Talk about *weird.* Well, it's that time of year again, when the ghouls come out for a look-see and the Challengers flex their writing muscles. So, in the midst of war and suffering, I hereby announce the Second Annual DGML Challenge from Beyond! So here's the rules: First, for signing up: Anyone whose request to join lands in my Inbox before October 31st is in. This is an open event--active listies, lurkers, old-timers, newbies, and writers from the published-professional level to the absolute first-timer are welcome. You just have to be a DGML member. In general, I will put the writers in the order in which they arrive, but if anyone has a special request to be put near the beginning, middle, or end, I will try to accommodate it as best as I can. PLEASE SEND YOUR REQUEST TO JOIN OFFLIST! Cluttering up the list with personal messages to me is a no-no. (Note also my new address: superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp ) As before, I will write a "prologue" chapter to start things off. I will also request two "proven" writers to handle the crucial first and last chapters--I did that last time, and I'm very glad I did! I'll post the prologue on Halloween, and after that, as chapters appear onlist, each writer will have one week to produce the next chapter. Writers who are going to be late or who need to be rescheduled farther down the line are responsible for contacting me before that week is up, or they will be dropped. (There will be some leeway for emergencies, but I'm going to try to be a bit stricter on deadlines this time--many of us remember the 2-month "dead zone" the last time around. Never again.) Last time around we had frequent problems with writers who'd gotten unsubbed due to a glitch, tried to post their story, and then found out that they'd missed their deadline. So this time, I'd like to request that writers send their chapters to me, not the List. Then I can post it to the List. That should keep technical problems to a minimum, and (as editor) I might even have time to do a quick proofreading before posting it, instead of having it all pile up at the end. Also, it'll avoid other potential problems, like people giving their chapter the wrong number, stuff like that. Or, at least, if there are mistakes like that, everyone will know just who to blame: me! As for writing rules, again, they will be few, but there is a new twist based on the suggestions of many others a couple of months back. Just for a little added "challenge" (and some fun), ALL characters who appear in the story--from major heroes and villains to passersby to pets to monsters--must be in some way based on a member of the Delta Green Mailing List. The connection can be as tenuous as you like (a monster with reflective skin, or a Deep One hybrid living in the Italian town of Treviso), or it could be a more "true to the spirit" portrayal (see http://www.delta-green.com/opint/case_histories/ch_ADG.MM-0081.html for multiple examples). Also, you don't have to be limited to current or active listmembers--lurkers and past members are open season, too. Now, to make this work, we must keep this within the bounds of good, clean fun. Any writer who uses this as an opportunity to maliciously embarrass, slander, or insult another listmember will see his or her piece yanked. On the other hand, embarrassing, slandering, or insulting each other in a manner of good, clean fun is all part of the game--as is various and inventive modes of killing and driving insane. As Davide Mana put it, "It's all right if they kill me, if they turn me inside-out (highly Yithian), if they make me have sex with dozens beautiful women cultists or they make me look like a fool; I know there will be further chapters in which my character will have a shot at redemption (or just more of the same, whichever's better). If they just go and insult me, I might get a little irritated..." In other words, this should not be a forum for starting flame wars. HPL and crew wrote several pieces of a similar nature, both published (using each other as characters) and in group-circulated letters--I vaguely remember one which features them all joyfully blasting each other to pieces. For the DGML NPC Depot (a collection of listmembers written up as COC characters), go here: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/dgmlnpc.htm . Other than that, like last time, no "nuking" the storyline--if you want to introduce a radical change, make it work within the established story. No "she woke up and it was all a dream" stuff. Oh, and the copyright rules will be the same as before, too: Anyone who writes will be allowed to post or otherwise distribute the entire story, as long as no money is made off the deal. Any profits (HAH! yeah, right!) must be shared among all writers. All right, gang: Applications for the Challenge are now being accepted! I'll post the prologue and announce the order of writers on Halloween. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 2:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) ----- Original Message ----- From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" > > Okay - excuse my medical ignorance, but is it at all normal for images to be > left in the back of someone's eyeball? The last I heard, that was an old > superstition. It is an old superstition. The point of the story (not one of HPL's best IMHO) was to take this old superstition and grant it a "Mythos" rationale. To see this GOO is to become petrified: even a picture of it will have the same effect. Presumably this is an example of the "T Radiation effect" of the presence of the GOO. The "image on the retina" effect has been remembered and rationalised into a superstition, now humanised into the idea hat the last image of a killer is found on its victim's retina. Thje Glovbe Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:20 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] CfB2K proofed chapters at DGMLBackup Davide Mana, the hardest working man in Europe, is feverishly at work on finishing his PhD (yes, soon we'll be calling him Dr. Mana), so while waiting for him to have a spare moment to breathe, much less do unpaid HTML work, you can check out all 23 chapters of the first modern Challenge in the Files area of the DGMLBackup, here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DGMLbackup/files/ (You'll need to join the DGMLBackup group, but it's well worth it.) These are in TXT format, so they'll be easier to read if you select, copy, and paste them into the word processing/text reading program of your choice, but they should be perfectly readable by anything. They've been proofed and corrected by yours truly--if anyone sees a mistake, please let me know. Dave (5 people signed up for Challenge 2 so far...) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Paul Haban [xpresoadct@mindspring.com] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 7:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Current events just kind of a general question... do other keepers use the current conflict in their campaigns. It is hard for me to run a modern day game that involves government employees and reflects our non-game without considering it. It could also be that being prior service it is more difficult to think outside of the conflict, but I just feel a need to reflect it in my game. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. thanks, -Paul Haban ex airborne forward observer current videogame programmer _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:06 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) >It is an old superstition. The point of the story (not one of HPL's best >IMHO) was to take this old superstition and grant it a "Mythos" rationale. > >To see this GOO is to become petrified: even a picture of it will have the >same effect. SO if it's powerful enough to burn its image into a retina, wouldn't that be likely to nuke the film in a camera? Inquiring minds want to nit-pick! J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:19 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) Ghantoatha (in "Out Of The Aeons") was indeed capable of communicating his infection to the plates in a camera. The investigators, I believe, saw a photo of the retina of a petrified human, and in the photo the image of G. was on the retina. Just seeing these photos was enough to semi-petrify the viewers, making it hard to hold the plates in their hands and stiffening their rib cages, though the image was filtered through two stages of reproduction. However, the petrification effect was purely on organic matter. The camera was undamaged. . The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" To: > > >It is an old superstition. The point of the story (not one of HPL's best > >IMHO) was to take this old superstition and grant it a "Mythos" rationale. > > > >To see this GOO is to become petrified: even a picture of it will have the > >same effect. > > SO if it's powerful enough to burn its image into a retina, wouldn't that be > likely to nuke the film in a camera? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 12:24 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Simulators (Was: Killingry Fondling) ----- Original Message ----- From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" > Okay - excuse my medical ignorance, but is it at all normal for images to be > left in the back of someone's eyeball? The last I heard, that was an old > superstition. Of course. Didn't you see "Wild Wild West?" The horror! The horror! Although, I suppose a rationale could be made for some Mythos baddies. Imagine doing a forensic scan of the retinas and finding that they have been selectively destroyed to varying degrees, creating an upside-down pixilated picture like a sepia newspaper photo. Only the monster's image would leave it's mark. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 3:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Current events From: Paul Haban >just kind of a general question... >do other keepers use the current conflict in their campaigns. Where were you when I thrashed out the IMMINENT DOMAIN campaign outline for using the Office of Homeland Security as a way to restore Delta Green to it's rightful status as an offical govt. agency? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 4:47 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Recommended Viewing Good Evening, folks! I watched "Traffic" with Michael Douglas, Benicio del Toro and others this weekend. My girlfried rented the video and I have to admit that I liked the film. And actually one of the reasons because I liked it was the following: All the 2+something hours I thought "Hey, if I ever had to do a DG movie, I'd do it that way!". The combination of the film's semidocumentary style and that Robert-Altman-patchwork-approach would really support a DG movie. Homework: Watch the movie. Exchange everything about the DEA with DG. Change everything about drugs into a mythos cult of your choice. Sit back and relax. eckhard. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/