From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO Greetings. The Glove Cleaner is due for a wake-up call >Ah, but except for the few of you who have undergone the Enlightenment of >the Mythos, you Italians are surely all wannabee Cardinals & Popes? > >A strong scientific culture needs Protestantism (or Judaism, arguably). >No call for Believers. Now it's a well known fact that I'm the first to point out the many problems of this derelict country in which I live, but the last thing I can stand is a beefeater acting all snug because that lardass Henry got his knicks in a twist over the matter of a male heir. Off the top of my head.... Fermi. Majorana. Segre. Avogadro. Cannizzaro. Marconi. Dulbecco. Levi-Montalcini. Rubbia. Desio. This without going to touch upon the old reliable, Galileo and Leonardo da Vinci. What have you got? Hubble? The fact that we did put the English people to shame where painting, architecture and the arts, not to mention exploration and good looking women, are concerned does not mean that you are allowed to act snug and forget the rest of the excelent job we did considering the starting handicaps. The way you pray, or to whom, does not count for that much in the end. Let's give credit where credit's due. And do not judge Italians from Vito Scotti's (by all mean excellent but far from accurate) character acts in '50s Hollywood fare. Davide Mana A committed anglophile Torino, Italy PS: and yes, all of the above, with a firm tongue in cheek. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:15 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Report (was: Anti-terrorist suggestions) I just checked the sourcebook to verify something the MiB wrote. BTW MiB, you're WRONG WRONG WRONG!! Ha! So there! [a brief interlude as the Saurian Dance of Vindication is performed. MiB wailing and gnashing teeth optional.] Here's the pertinent passage: S P O I L E R S "What's more, the Greys offered something that stunned MJ-12: the initial edition of a periodical document giving a complete breakdown of world military forces, inclusive. *Absolutely* inclusive. From a lone guerrilla camped in Honduras to the location of every Soviet warhead, the document offered a level of detail impossible to achieve through conventional intelligence-gathering. The Greys promised to update the document every other month, and occasionally more often if needed. ("The Report," as it came to be known, would eventually become the U.S.'s key to winning the Cold War in the late 1980s.)" So it's not a quarterly Report but a bi-monthly. Further, more frequent updates are available, I assume upon request. I don't think the Greys are the ones determining when to supply them "more often if needed." also "Awestruck, MJ-12's steering committee was finally faced with a decision too big to make alone. A week later, as the nation celebrated the election of Ronald Reagan, the committee decided it was time to bring the chief executive back into the loop." and "The New World Order had arrived, and thanks to the Greys, the U.S. was at the top of the food chain. When George Bush was elected president in 1988, he was already in the loop on MJ-12 from his days with the CIA, and he continued Reagan's MJ-12 policies (full funding, top secrecy) faithfully." and here's a smoking gun: "Weapon systems based on sonic energy were field-tested in the Gulf War (a conflict that also demonstrated the value of the Report's military intelligence, *though for some reason the Greys would not update it quickly enough to provide reliable as to the location of the always-moving Saddam Hussein*)" emphasis mine. Note that it's "would not" instead of "could not." So the questions are: Is Bush's son out of the loop? If not, are the Reports being updated more frequently for the War on Terrorism? Are the Greys delaying updates on the location of an enemy? If so, why? Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Mr. A.C. Marcy [sarnath7@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:31 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO Well, I can't disagree with most of this email, mainly because it is hard to fight the truth, but I do have a few bones to pick- mainly the omission of Newton, Faraday, Hawking, Bacon, Turing, and Crick from the list of English scientists. They have made *slight* contributions to science, :). Other than that, I, a smug beefeater, have been put in my place! -writing from the wilds of Idaho > Greetings. > > The Glove Cleaner is due for a wake-up call > > >Ah, but except for the few of you who have undergone the Enlightenment of > >the Mythos, you Italians are surely all wannabee Cardinals & Popes? > > > >A strong scientific culture needs Protestantism (or Judaism, arguably). > >No call for Believers. > > Now it's a well known fact that I'm the first to point out the many > problems of this derelict country in which I live, but the last thing I can > stand is a beefeater acting all snug because that lardass Henry got his > knicks in a twist over the matter of a male heir. > > Off the top of my head.... > > Fermi. > Majorana. > Segre. > Avogadro. > Cannizzaro. > Marconi. > Dulbecco. > Levi-Montalcini. > Rubbia. > Desio. > > This without going to touch upon the old reliable, Galileo and Leonardo da > Vinci. > What have you got? > Hubble? > > The fact that we did put the English people to shame where painting, > architecture and the arts, not to mention exploration and good looking > women, are concerned does not mean that you are allowed to act snug and > forget the rest of the excelent job we did considering the starting handicaps. > The way you pray, or to whom, does not count for that much in the end. > Let's give credit where credit's due. > > And do not judge Italians from Vito Scotti's (by all mean excellent but far > from accurate) character acts in '50s Hollywood fare. > > Davide Mana > A committed anglophile > Torino, Italy > > PS: and yes, all of the above, with a firm tongue in cheek. > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 6:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" To: > Now it's a well known fact that I'm the first to point out the many > problems of this derelict country in which I live, but the last thing I can > stand is a beefeater acting all snug because that lardass Henry got his > knicks in a twist over the matter of a male heir. Ah, punctured as a blustering *rosbif*. As the Welsh say: "Speak not to me of the foreign prelate Nor of his creed with neither truth nor faith For the foundation stone of its temple Is the bollocks of King Henry the Eighth." Always seemed to sum up the C of E. --- *** --- Yet I do wonder - modern Science surely springs from the Enlightenment, which was part of the counter-reaction of the southern Catholic societies to the rise of Protestantism. The ObDG is something about religion and science being fundamentally exclusive worldviews: and I was going to bring in the SF elements in PARADISE LOST, until I remembered the SF elements in THE DIVINE COMEDY. Truth is, though, I was just ragging you, I know too little about history to make any sort of call on this. The Glove Cleaner PS Newton _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Muir" > > Any other emotion? > > This was their job, after all: philosophical research. > > So they got a gun, opened a window and fired a shot in a crowd of > > students, > > killing a girl. > > That is the most fucked up case of intellectual bullshitism I have ever > heard. I mean, this sounds like something out of a novel, one of those > things that's brought up to prove a point ubt could never occur in real > life. This sounds like Crime and Punishment, where (Alexi, was it?) decided > to kill his landlady, just to see if he was a superman. Or in the RW, the Leopold and Loeb case. Two privileged young intellectuals decided to kidnap and murder a child in order to prove their inherent superiority to themselves, and get some extra spending money in ransom. They felt that they were smart enough to perform the perfect crime. Actually, their real motives are probably still unknown, but the case and\or murder have been referenced in so many movies that the truth has become the above. Check 'Compulsion' (1959) which utilized Clarence Darrow's defense of the pair extensively during the court sequences, and Hitchcock's 'Rope' which uses the murder and presumed motive. Both are worth checking out for film buffs. Yes, there was a time when Bradford Dillman and Dean Stockwell were young (they play the murderers in 'Compulsion') and Orson Welles was everything Orson Welles should be. 'Rope' was Hitchcock's first film in color, and he played it safe by restricting the action to a few rooms. But... he upped the ante by filming the story essentially in real time, composing most of the shots to run the length of the film in the camera. When characters would move from room to room the set would be dismantled behind the camera to allow passage and quickly reassembled before coming into the frame as the actors went through the door. The (fake) scenery outside the picture window changes from day to dusk to night in real time, with the angle of sunlight changing as the unseen sun sets. I offer that not just because it's neat-o keen, but because it has a weird feel to it. I've dabbled with the idea of films as ceremonies or incantations of spells, and the idea of a director taking so many pains to do things the audience probably never noticed (I had read Truffaut's interviews with Hitchcock before seeing 'Rope', so I was clued-in and can't judge) seems to be ripe for Mythos interpretation. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Report (was: Anti-terrorist suggestions) At 03:15 PM 10/30/2001 -0800, The Lizard King wrote: > So the questions are: > > Is Bush's son out of the loop? We had this discussion soon after Bush's non-election. It might be in the Ice Cave or maybe even the old DGML backup on Yahoo. There was not a great deal of consensus. My personal take is that, as little more than a front-man, Bush Jr. doesn't need to be brought into the loop. MJ-12 has also been operating fine for eight years without briefing the Chief Executive, so they may consider it superfluous - the only reason Reagan was briefed was because developments with the Greys required it. Cheney might know of the Accord due to his importance in the previous Bush Administration, as well as Colin Powell, though probably less likely. > If not, are the Reports being updated more frequently for the War on >Terrorism? Well, as it's been said, it might not be in MJ-12's best interests that the War on Terrorism go smoothly and quickly. Otherwise, I wouldn't see why the *request* wouldn't be made, especially as they had done so before where there was a specific target US intelligence needed taken out (Saddam). > Are the Greys delaying updates on the location of an enemy? If so, why? Maybe they can't. The Mi-Go are a highly advanced civilization, but even they might have trouble finding exactly where bin-Laden is. Future-tech isn't all Star Trek (able to solve any problem anytime anywhere in 50 minutes). Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:48 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO > > That is the most fucked up case of intellectual bullshitism I have ever > > heard. I mean, this sounds like something out of a novel, one of those > > things that's brought up to prove a point ubt could never occur in real > > life. This sounds like Crime and Punishment, where (Alexi, was it?) > decided > > to kill his landlady, just to see if he was a superman. > > Or in the RW, the Leopold and Loeb case. Two privileged young > intellectuals > decided to kidnap and murder a child in order to prove their inherent > superiority to themselves, and get some extra spending money in > ransom. They > felt that they were smart enough to perform the perfect crime. > > Actually, their real motives are probably still unknown, but the case > and\or murder have been referenced in so many movies that the truth has > become the above. I am against state-sponsored capital punishment but this is truly one of those cases where you should let the relatives have vengence. > I offer that not just because it's neat-o keen, but because it > has a weird > feel to it. I've dabbled with the idea of films as ceremonies or > incantations of spells, and the idea of a director taking so many pains to > do things the audience probably never noticed (I had read Truffaut's > interviews with Hitchcock before seeing 'Rope', so I was clued-in > and can't > judge) seems to be ripe for Mythos interpretation. > Well, those little details would be things that people may not even be able to notice they notice but can affect their overall impression of the movie. Most people cannot tell you the first thing about biomechanics and the way creatures move but they can tell you if your dinosaur looks hoakey or not. They couldn't say why but they'll tell you anyway. There's a lot of stuff like that in heavy SFX movies where terrible pains are taken to get the littlest thing right. Hell, Titanic was a good example. Cameron even got the pattern on the china authentic. Hardly anyone would care but he did. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Edward Lipsett [translation@intercomltd.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 6:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Report (was: Anti-terrorist suggestions) Gil Trevizo wrote: > > > Are the Greys delaying updates on the location of an enemy? If so, why? > > Maybe they can't. The Mi-Go are a highly advanced civilization, but even > they might have trouble finding exactly where bin-Laden is. Future-tech > isn't all Star Trek (able to solve any problem anytime anywhere in 50 minutes). There is a considerable difference between detecting a man with an AK47 hiding under a bush in Honduras, and being able to determine his name. I doubt the military would find a list of where all the armed men in Afghanistan were standing to be of much help in locating any particular person. ===== Of course anyone who truly loves books buys more of them than he or she can hope to read in one fleeting lifetime. A good book, resting unopened in its slot on a shelf, full of majestic potentiality, is the most comforting sort of intellectual wallpaper. - David Quammen, "The Boilerplate Rhino: Time-and-Motion Study" ===== Edward Lipsett Intercom, Ltd. Fukuoka, Japan translation@intercomltd.com http://www.intercomltd.com Tel: +81-92-712-9120 Fax: +81-92-712-9220 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 8:58 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG related in that it has to do with WTC and spin control Mr. A.C. Marcy wrote: "As far as conservative Christians go, some are pretty bad. However, some of the conservative Mormons make those Christians look rather leftist (I know, a label, but just this once). The spin control that the Mormon church can place upon events is sometimes frightening. I know several ex-Mormons, and some of the material they are taught scares me. Here's an interesting page on how far the LDS will go to prevent some of the truth about Joseph Smith from escaping: www-personal.si.umich.edu/~wmwines/WASP/essays/mormon.html" After a second read, I don't really think the above crosses the line into religion-bashing, but let's be careful and not let this go out of control. I can imagine the next post in response to this might indeed cross that line. This is a very diverse list, and I (a near-atheist agnostic) made the mistake of going too far in the past and unintentionally insulted someone (who, after talking with him about it offlist, became a friend). Believe it or not, fundamentalist Christians play CoC too! And the ones I know who do are pretty nice folks. I'm not saying we should muzzle ourselves--just treat each other respectfully. Dave (Writing from office computer, but I talked the repair guy into giving me a loaner monitor, so my home computer is OK and the Second Challenge will start on schedule! Anyone who wants to join in, you have mere hours left to apply! To join, email me at superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp . And Happy Halloween!) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 9:07 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: re: [DG] Fiction: A Good Book is Hard to Come By -- Part II Stango--thanks! "Second, if you have any criticisms, I would like to hear them. I have a lot of ideas, and am interested in becoming a better hack(writer) than I am now." Do you want your criticism on- or off-list? I'll send a bit off-list later tonight, but if you prefer public discussion (some do), let us know. I hope this is only the first of several Halloween treats--I know there's at least one other person crafting a tale for Halloween release on this list, and I'll be posting the prologue of the Challenge later tonight (Halloween morning in the USA--it's already Halloween here). Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Mr. A.C. Marcy [sarnath7@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG related in that it has to do with WTC and spin control I didn't mean to religion bash, and if I seemed to I apologize to anyone who was offended. I have no gripe with any religions in general, but some of the specific practices of certain groups do disturb me, just because the truth can become very distorted. The Mormon Church has some of the best members to socialize with of any religion, however the actions of the Church itself sometimes cause me to wonder. Again, if anyone was offended, let me apologize for a second time. -wilds of Idaho > After a second read, I don't really think the above crosses the line into > religion-bashing, but let's be careful and not let this go out of control. I > can imagine the next post in response to this might indeed cross that line. > This is a very diverse list, and I (a near-atheist agnostic) made the > mistake of going too far in the past and unintentionally insulted someone > (who, after talking with him about it offlist, became a friend). Believe it > or not, fundamentalist Christians play CoC too! And the ones I know who do > are pretty nice folks. I'm not saying we should muzzle ourselves--just treat > each other respectfully. > > Dave > (Writing from office computer, but I talked the repair guy into giving me a > loaner monitor, so my home computer is OK and the Second Challenge will > start on schedule! Anyone who wants to join in, you have mere hours left to > apply! To join, email me at superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp . And Happy > Halloween!) > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:55 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] DG related in that it has to do with WTC and spin control > > uh... I get the feeling, looking further down the page, that this site >is > > not meant to be taken seriously. ; ) > > >Was an intentional omission. Parodies are funnier when you don't know >they're for fun at first. :) Oh, you cad! But yes, I know what you mean about parodies sometimes being so true they're scary. Sometimes we can only approach the truth through humor. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. A.C. Marcy" > Well, I can't disagree with most of this email, mainly because it is hard to > fight the truth, but I do have a few bones to pick- mainly the omission of > Newton, Faraday, Hawking, Bacon, Turing, and Crick from the list of English > scientists. They have made *slight* contributions to science, :). Other > than that, I, a smug beefeater, have been put in my place! Then what do y'all make of the fact that more Nobel Prizes have gone to Californians and researchers at California institutions than any other group? Timothy Leary (of Harvard) saw it as evidence of the westward travels of the innovation mutation. I'm just pleased to note it indicates the environment nurtures more than hype and Hollywood. It should be mentioned that before trans-Atlantic travel got easy, England was sort of the California of Europe. High tech, wacky non-traditional religions, social experiments and a resented cultural influence while being dismissed as a cultural wasteland and collection of savages by the Continentals. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:45 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Reading Stuff for Field Ops [wasRE: Anti-terroristsuggestions] I have a copy of "Underground" sitting in a bookshelf in the next room. For anyone interested in the history of hacking/phreaking, I'd say it was a good book. There is almost no technical info, however, and it has no ObDG (unless you need inspiration for fringe-dwelling NPCs). Davide Mana wrote: > > Greetings. (cut) > But perusing Yoyodyne-related links there, I landed here > > http://www.underground-book.com/index.php3 > > ... which is a page about a hacker/electronics frontier/general subversion > book that was printed in Australia and apparently did not go that far. > You can download the whole - the US mirror is dubious, but the European > mirror works fine. > If it's a waste of time, at least it comes for free. (-) My copy was $4.00 Aus, second hand :-) -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au Better living through reckless experimentation. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Anarchy [anarchy@agentsofchaos.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:25 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Reading Stuff for Field Ops [wasRE: Anti-terroristsuggestions] > I have a copy of "Underground" sitting in a bookshelf in the next room. > For anyone interested in the history of hacking/phreaking, I'd say it > was a good book. There is almost no technical info, however, and it has > no ObDG (unless you need inspiration for fringe-dwelling NPCs). For more in-depth info, more modern info, or general questions, feel free to contact me, too. I regularly attend the hacker meetings here in NyC and have done extensive research into the hacker history, including interviews with Cap'n Crunch and hackers here at the meetings. For an example, check out this link - http://www.cenews.org/cemonitor/news/199708hackers.htm -- Scott / Anarchy Anarchy@agentsofchaos.org _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:17 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG related in that it has to do with WTC and spin control ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. A.C. Marcy" > I didn't mean to religion bash, and if I seemed to I apologize to anyone > who was offended. I have no gripe with any religions in general, but some > of the specific practices of certain groups do disturb me, just because the > truth can become very distorted. The Mormon Church has some of the best > members to socialize with of any religion, Yeah, you have to be careful. I've been guilty as well. One interesting thing about Mormons, with a slight ObDG, is that the church seems to have a lot of SF writers in it. The two best known are Orson Scott Card and Zenna Henderson. Interesting article here speculating on the reasons . . http://www.dallasnews.com/religion/195918_scifi_21rel.AR.html "Mormons are theologically not so far removed from science fiction," said Orson Scott Card, a Mormon who has won the coveted Hugo and Nebula awards for his science fiction. "We literally believe that God has created sentient beings on other worlds, that there really is faster-than-light travel and that God can go hither and yon. ... In many cases, we are writing about a universe we have already thought about from childhood on." One doesn't often think of Mormonism as having a close link with SF ideas, but in the context in which it originally arose the Book of Mormon is very like Science Fiction. If you squint your eyes right perhaps the LDS would be a good "model" for latter-day techno-cults. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jon Ward, Aardvark of Fnord [wardjr@aston.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:31 AM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] A little light humour for our MIB and friends http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23155&cid=2494479 Merry Samhain people, and I hope the next year is better than last. Jon -- Jonathan Ward || "Strange, the transfers stopped after about 30,000." School of Engineering || "After 32767?" Aston University || "Oh. Yeah." *click* j.r.ward@aston.ac.uk || [Real conversation at a previous place of work] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nash Baddream [nash-xs@metallica.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 3:35 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] What if it was all true??? have you ever wondered how you would react if you started to think that the mythos is a fact??? I just had an idea yesterday which came to me while i was thinking about that... There's a way to guess it out, at least to guess out how your players would react... I just thought about organizing a CoC Rpg game and slowly turn it into a Cthulhu Live... How? Read the following...(I know this is not really DG realated but well...) I was thinking about making a game around the Hastur mythos... start an adventure around the table and at a given moment (preferably when the story has attained a climax) to slowly erase the boundaries between game and reality... At first, when speaking of a creature (a byakhee) have a friend in another room play the sound of wings flapping for example...on and on, rising the level of "coincidences". Then you get to have a discussion with only one player (which happen to be "in the know") which ends by something like then hand out the sheet to the players... The whole discussion is written on it just like if it was part of a play (replace the "keeper" headlines by "king in yellow" or sumthin)... I then thought about playing this in a "abandonned" place (there's an old house at the end of my street that would fit perfectly) make them go through several rooms to get in the room where we'll play and during the "table play" time, have some friends to change the decoration in the rooms the players have gone through... well, I still have to write the scenario for this but... What d'ya think of it??? ________________________________________________________ Get your Private, Free E-mail from Metallica at http://mail.metallica.com/ powered by XingMail. Check out the Metallica Official Web Site at http://www.metallica.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:19 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] [Challenge2] Prologue {OK, folks, here it is--just a vague little something to wet the tastebuds and get the writers' wheels turning. I'll post the list of writers and restate the rules tomorrow--it's Halloween my time, but the day won't be over in some parts of the world for a while, so people still have several hours to sign on. --Dave} *** [Challenge2] Prologue After an hour of furious typing, deletions, cutting-and-pasting--the monotone symphony of modern communication--Robert Anderson paused, his mouse's pointer (in pale blue today, with a tiny, perfect image of the Earth spinning slowly beside it) hovering over the Send button. He slipped it back into the message field, flicking the scroll button up and down to to rescan, for the dozenth time, what he had written. It had to be perfect, appearing on the surface to be nothing more than a reply to a mailing list of fellow hobbyists, while containing key letter combinations that would cause an innocuous little green flag to appear next to the message on the computers of at least one subscriber. Perhaps there were others, but the only one Anderson knew about was Grant Emerson, a fellow-scientist and fellow-countryman living expatriate in the States. And thus the message would go out, and those Emerson worked with, some nameless cabal within (or without?) the American government, would be alerted, and Bob Anderson could let this cup pass from him. If only he could let the other pass, too. He reached up to touch the top of his head, the crown of his skull, to feel the slight ridge of the scar, the fontanelle-like pulsing where the circle of skull had been expertly removed, as if to reassure himself that it all had really happened, two years before. Sometimes he dreamt of the things he had done, or might have done, while that alien...thing...had been in his head. They had needed his expertise, those vile...he had to clench his throat against a sudden spasm in his belly. Remembering those days, and the creature that had ridden him like a Voudon loa, in any but the most formless terms still prompted a reaction of physical fear and disgust. But he could drive that away with hate. Oh yes--hate could be a useful emotion. And even if he had still had anything left of the belief of his youth, had the last wisps of it not been blasted away in a week--only one week--of being the puppet of an inconceivably malevolent alien being, he would have nonetheless turned his back on that faith's creed of turning the other cheek. Sometimes, the only moral thing to do was to meet the other with utter hatred and fury. He had no illusions about that. And so he lived in hiding, in a safehouse of his rescuers and his new family. Emerson, a colleague he'd met at an interdisciplinary conference years before, had recognized the coded messages Bob had slipped into his emails, and somehow put them onto his trail, passing word along to that mysterious American group, who had contacted the "terrorist" Army of the Third Eye, who had kidnapped him, trepanned him, and killed his tormenting possessor. Now he was with them, branded a terrorist by his own country, hiding from police and military with orders to gun him down on sight, unable to escape or see his children, hopeless--and yet, he felt free. There was a sort of fierce joy in knowing who the real enemy was, and being outside of all the illusions of society, yet fighting to maintain them for the innocent. But what he had recently learned might be a danger that would dwarf his enemy into insignificance. He was helpless to do anything about it himself. But perhaps Emerson's contacts could do something. And so with a click of the mouse, he sent pain, madness, and death to his friend and savior, and then turned his mind back to devising the extermination of a pack of vicious joyriders from the stars. *** {And next up: Chapter One, by the ever-lovin' MiB! He promises not to be late. Well, it was more like he implied that he promised he wouldn't be late...doh!} _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO Master Urbanowicz wrote: > On the similar note: today at about 1400 CEST I became Janusz A. Urbanowicz > M. Sc. (experimental physics, thesis - 'statistical analysis of human > stabilogram'). Congratulations! But what the heck is a stabilogram? For some reason, it sounds applicable to Hounds of Tindalos... Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:41 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO Greetings. First of all, Andy Robertson, whatever you are doing for a living, you should drop it RIGHT NOW, and (unless that's what you are doing already) a . set up a stall as a fortune teller b . set op an office as a scientific research field consultant specializing in department politics but first and foremost c . go find a Catholic priest and get thoroughly blessed You did write (we have witnesses here, you know) >He he he. This warms my grey old heart. But wait a while, wait a while, >before you decide whether good or evil has come from my string-pulling . Indeed. My beautiful model, my most excellent dissertation, my work of the last two years, the key to my doctorhood and scientistdom was greatly praised (after a bit of persuading) yesterday morning and then, it was silently and thoroughly shafted in the enclosed privacy of a teacher's office, where after what I hope were a few hours of sweat-soaked hard work, an unlikely loophole was found and the whole was annihilated. I was handed the scraps this morning. I'm back to the drawing board, for the third time in ten days, to find a way to present my work in a "safe" (their word) way to the commission. I was plainly told that I'm a ball-breaking busybody that should spend his time confirming acquired facts instead of confirming hypotheses, and nothing good will ever come of my "fad" for novelty stuff like computers and mathematics. The delivery deadline to catch my final exam is in ten days, or in five months. I'm completely broken, and my hands are shaking as I type. So, Andy, for the good of everyone on this list, go and find that priest NOW! This said, on to more interesting things in order to let off some steam through intellectual activity. >Yet I do wonder - modern Science surely springs from the Enlightenment, >which was part of the counter-reaction of the southern Catholic societies >to the rise of Protestantism. The ObDG is something about religion and >science being fundamentally exclusive worldviews: and I was going to bring >in the SF elements in PARADISE LOST, until I remembered the SF elements in >THE DIVINE COMEDY. The bit about Enlightment needs to be defined better. Actually there was much scientific thinking well before the Enlightment. If the Illuministes did something, it was to standardize the format. They also reinforced the old Physics/Metaphysics bit, deciding what was into the science field and what was out of it. Here is where I normally start wondering about what was actually lost in this standardization process. As for Science and Religion being mutually exclusive - Science and Faith actually are, because they do adopt a totally different approach to the problem of describing reality. Religion is somewhere in between - and as I already pointed out, there's a definite pattern showing in both religious and scientific communities. But maybe comes from an innate human need to stick with tradition. Notice, in fact, that both Science and Faith do undermine the principle of Authority. With science, I can run all sorts of experiments and deny the Authority, while as nobody can actually gauge the Faith of his neighbour, no one can come and tell me my faith has to be in a certain way (I know they did it, but they were ignoring the facts). Religion, as an organized approach to Faith management, does have a strong Authority principle. So does have the Scientific Community as perceived by some of its less-than-enlightened members. >Truth is, though, I was just ragging you, I know too little about history to >make any sort of call on this. No need for explanation. It's the sort of friendly shot-trading that causes some oversensitive souls to label DGML as a den of elitist flamemongering technocrats debating guns and metaphysics >PS Newton Newton was Italian. So was Shakespeare. And Queen Elizabeth !st (as she was Shakespeare, right?). All You Know Is A Lie. Take care! Davide Mana Used to be very bad at mathematics Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jim Clunie [jim_clunie@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 11:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO >From: "Dave Farnell" > >Master Urbanowicz wrote: > > On the similar note: today at about 1400 CEST I >became Janusz A. Urbanowicz > > M. Sc. (experimental physics, thesis - 'statistical >analysis of human > > stabilogram'). > >Congratulations! But what the heck is a stabilogram? For >some reason, it sounds applicable to Hounds of >Tindalos... > Or maybe a useful object to summon the Fly-The-Light? Jim C _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:05 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: The root of all evil (was Re: [DG] The economics of anthrax) From: "Greg Muir" > I think even scarier would be the worshiping of a corporation as a kind of > god. The Japanese have already displayed a willingness to sacrifice their > health for an organization but this is by extension to their coworkers, > their fellows in the company. They can embrace the corporation as a > philosophy. What happens when the corporation becomes an actual deity? I think that this is breaking down, and the desire to lead a "normal" life (one in which the individual asserts his or her needs and desires, and thinks of the company or government as something there to serve the individuals, rather than the other way around) is slowly, slowly breaking free of all the incredible BS the corporation/government (in Japan, they're really just points on a single continuum) has been using to chain down the spirit of the citizenry since well before WW2--heck, since the Kofun Period at least, 1700 years ago. Ironically, just as this is happening, America sometimes seems to be on the path in the opposite direction. Maybe 20 years from now, Japan will be a land of cooperative but assertive individualists, while Americans will be subsuming their will to the Corporation...more than they are now, that is. > I don't think it would take too much twisting for people to eventually come > to such a mental state. In a monotheistic culture the corporation can > represent GOd's will on earth, in a catholic church sense. But in the > future, if polytheism ever makes a comeback, you could see the corporation > easily invested with godlike aspects. Every household and city had their own > gods in Greece and the same went for Rome much later. There are still household gods in Japan, and so of course some (perhaps most, not sure) companies have their own shrines, generally devoted to the spirits of dead founders (who are _kami_, minor ones to be sure, but still _kami_ just like the ones worshipped at the major shrines). I know of one fellow, a Korean ceramicist kidnapped by Hideyoshi's men 400 years ago and forced to introduce porcelain to Japan (yep, that's where it came from), who has a full shrine devoted to him, and is worshipped regularly by hundreds of Japanese ceramicists in numerous businesses as their patron god. So yeah, definitely, it would happen. Nothing sinister about it, of course--in fact, it's pretty heartening to know that Japanese people are worshipping a Korean slave. (I had beer with his 13th-generation descendant 5 years ago--we were cherry-blossom viewing at his ancestor's shrine.) In fact, in a CoC universe, you have to wonder whether it is barely possible that Ri Sampei (the above-mentioned potter) might have *really* attained some sort of higher state of being as a result of worship. Rather D&D-ish, I know, but with the Dreamlands, maybe it is possible. If the consciousness survived in the DLs, could worship--fervent enough to work the worshipper into a sort of frenzied state, something akin to a waking dream--empower it? Of course, Ri Sampei, who probably wasn't a Dreamer (although he was an artist...Carcosa?), probably didn't survive his death, but surely some people who are the object of worship did. Jesus, Mohommed, Joseph Smith, Siddhartha--all had very powerful, extraordinary dreams, or saw things that could have been dreams--or Dreams. But this is just following on the idea Dave K presented years ago, about God being a DLs deity with very good press, something that has been lodged in my imagination ever since. (Should be in the Ice Cave somewhere.) [And the above is meant only in game terms, so no offense--especially of the fatwa-prompting variety--intended, and my apologies if any was caused.] > Just imagine a future where a corporation becomes less an it and more a He. > Employees work for Corporation in order to reach the happy afterlife, > Pension. Those who do not make the grade are Laid-Off to Hell. You obey the > High Executive Officer for he speaks for Corporation. You give of yourself > to Corporation and in return He gifts you with much bounty. The paycheck, > proof of His existence. Coffee, as much to drink as you could care for, > proof of His love. Five times per day you bow down and worship, facing > towards the holy temple of Corporation Headquarters. You pray to Corporation > for wisdom and guidence so that you may better serve His will. Except for the praying part, I think we already do that! And would this make Dogbert our Loki/Satan/Coyote figure? > Man, I'm depresed now. I'm going to read some Lovecraft to cheer up. I'm doing Philip Pullman right now. Die, God, die! Dave "No, no, that's, uh, German...yeah. It means 'The God, the.'" (Ripped of from Sideshow Bob.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:15 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO From: "Davide Mana" > And Queen Elizabeth !st (as she was Shakespeare, right?). > All You Know Is A Lie. Queen Elizabeth the !st?? Is this some hyperdimensional Carcosan Elizabeth? Hmm, she might very well have been Shakespeare then... And good luck with salvaging the thesis, Dr. Dee. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:09 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" > Greetings. > > First of all, Andy Robertson, whatever you are doing for a living, you > should drop it RIGHT NOW, and (unless that's what you are doing already) > a . set up a stall as a fortune teller Ah, but if only I could control this gift . . . . Actually "Davide Mana will get shafted" is a pretty safe prediction, it seems. Obviously the Forces concerned with doing you down are using the DGML's well known talents of Paranormal List Synchronicity as an enabler. You are the target. Your research, if it survives, will be crucial in allowing some fraction of true humanity to ESCAPE . . . . Time to put an end to my part in hampering it - the electrodes - bzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZttttttttt - - --- *** --- Another mutant brain lobe gone! But I can well spare them!!! > I was handed the scraps this morning. I'm back to the drawing board, for > the third time in ten days, to find a way to present my work in a "safe" > (their word) way to the commission. This time I shall say, "break a leg". The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] another Halloween story Beating Shane Ivey to the punch--our kindly hosts, Revolution SF, have put up a story by that sweet-natured, pious old man, Ambrose Bierce, for our amusement: http://www.revolutionsf.com/article/566.html Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:48 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: existentialism and the GOO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Robertson" > Obviously the Forces concerned with doing you down are using the DGML's well > known talents of Paranormal List Synchronicity as an enabler. You are the > target. Your research, if it survives, will be crucial in allowing some > fraction of true humanity to ESCAPE . . . . In the spirit of international cooperation I will put my transcendence project on hold for awhile so some help can be sent Davide's way. So for the next week or so all of you may stop thinking about me and start thinking nice things for Davide. It's OK, really. I have a strategic reserve so I'll be fine. Mark McFadden Getting into this noblesse oblige thing. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Stango [jstanley@echoman.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:34 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Fiction: A Good Book is Hard to Come By -- Part II >>Do you want your criticism on- or off-list? I'll send a bit off-list later >>tonight, but if you prefer public discussion (some do), let us know. Dave, feel free to post your comments on the list. Maybe it will spur some interesting discussions. Thanks, Stango _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gatten, Marshall [marshall@fusionone.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:16 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] What if it was all true??? >have you ever wondered how you would react if you started to think that >the mythos is a fact??? Ah, so you think it isn't, eh? Interesting. Good luck on your next SAN roll, sucker. ;) >I just thought about organizing a CoC Rpg game and slowly turn it into >a Cthulhu Live... >slowly erase the boundaries between game and reality... To me, a big part of the appeal of DG is that it takes place in "The Real World". Never mind that a few tidbits have been added - news in the real world affects the DG universe and, in a retrospective sort of way, events in the DG universe create the news of the real world. Using real-life news articles as handouts for clues is a great way to take advantage of this. Having great props who's origin is firmly rooted in the fictional portion of the world blended in with real world familiar items can make for a wonderful confusion of reality. And that's the mental place where it is easiest to role-play. Good role-playing requires a state of mind much easier to attain with props. Even minor stuff. The game I've played in for the last year or two has done things like using big tin cups during "Beyond the Mountains of Madness", or using baseball caps to indicate characters. Even these minor things made role-playing a lot easier. I really like the idea of the "pallid faced man" handing a piece of paper to an agent that turns out to be a conversation that just happened. (In fact, I think I'll be stealing it.) I think it'd be best if it was a meta-game conversation. Be sure to rehearse it several times because other players will know something's odd if you and the player in-the-know suddenly drop to a monotone or forget a line. If you happen to have somebody that none of your players have ever seen who's willing to drop by at the just the right time, you could have a total stranger walk in unannounced and drop the script on the table and walk out without saying a word. The flapping of the Byahkee is cool too. Maybe the same player that's already in-the-know could excuse himself to use the facilities and sneak into the adjacent room to do the noises. One of the things I plan on doing is creating a fake tape of a 911 call where the voices belong to people my players have never heard. One of the same voices will later appear on another tape which will be a recording of a psychiatric counseling session. The same kind of thing can be done with surveillance tapes of phone calls, bugged rooms, etc. I wrote a letter from a Bad Guy to one of his completely whacked-out disciples and then put the paper through thrashing hell. Then I wadded it up and put it in my wallet where it will stay for the next couple months until I'm ready to use it. By then it will have lots of wallet-wear and will look like something a bum has been carrying around for about a year. I'm going to dip it in beer and let it air dry some time before then. The characters will find it when examining the corpse of a bum. I love props. Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] [Challenge2] List of Writers And here's the list--a little early, but I have to work late tonight, so I need to send it now. If anyone else signs up before I get home, I'll add you in somewhere. Once again we have a great crop of writers, and I think we'll have another fun ride. Assuming people take, on average, their full allotted week to write their chapters (and we have no major lulls like last year), the ride will last about six months, when the Lizard King will bring us home. Tomorrow's a day off for me--I'll recap the rules and such then. Be seeing you, Dave *** Challenge from Beyond 2: List of Contributors Prologue: Dave "Chaucerwatch" Farnell Chapter 1: Kenneth "MiB" Scroggins Chapter 2: Jussi "the Mad Finn" Marttila Chapter 3: Eckhard "Lawyer of Love" Huelshoff Chapter 4: J. Edward "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" Chapter 5: Arjun "Wunderkind" Roy Chapter 6: "Nocstar" Chapter 7: Jay "Til Eulenspiegel" Dugger Chapter 8: Thom "Pallid Mask" Ryng Chapter 9: Paul Michael "Yes, I need 3 names!" Janousek Chapter 10: Nerva "Nervy" Vels Chapter 11: Ross "Not Ron" Howard Chapter 12: Chris "Don't Take Any Wooden" Nichols Chapter 13: Phil "Emerald Hammer" Ward Chapter 14: Julian "Big Jules" Breen Chapter 15: John "Stango" Stanley Chapter 16: The Nuge Chapter 17: AC "DC" Marcy Chapter 18: Davide "Dr Dee" Mana Chapter 19: Shannon Chapter 20: Marshall "Hands" Gatten Chapter 21: "Spanish John" Chapter 22: Nick "Harvey" Brownlow Chapter 23: Frank "The Quiet Man" Adams Chapter 24: Mark "The Lizard King" McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] [Challenge2] List of Writers Looks like I left at least one person off the list (sorry, Tolga!)--if I left anone else off, or if I made any mistakes in name or email address, let me know. I'll put out an amended list wih the rules recap tomorrow. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Joseph Camp [alphonse@delta-green.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:00 PM To: dgrpg Subject: Re: [DG] What if it was all true??? > I just thought about organizing a CoC Rpg game and slowly turn it into a > Cthulhu Live... How? Read the following... It's not live-action, but there is a game like this coming out from Hogshead called DE PROFUNDIS. It's an epistolary RPG--you write letters back and forth, and reality/gaming is thoroughly blurred. be seeing you, Alphonse _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jerzy Cichocki [deepone@go2.pl] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:18 AM To: Joseph Camp Subject: Re[2]: [DG] What if it was all true??? czwartek, 1 listopada 2001, Joseph wrote: JC> It's not live-action, but there is a game like this coming JC> out from Hogshead called DE PROFUNDIS. In fact, it is a Polish game of New Style from Portal Publishing. Hogshead is American distributor. And phones after RPG session, fax, mails, sms and others are very good elements which increase fun! George, Warsaw Poland _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Report (was: Anti-terrorist suggestions) In all honesty, I can't see the MJ-12 Steering Committee informing Bush of it's existance. They're far too smart to tell the current, somewhat less than illustrious president about all the secret weapons, etc! I mean, if we, the ordinary(well, mostly) people have a rather dim view of Bush(at least here in the UK...can't say about elsewhere), then I think the cleverer, better informed members of the committee aren't about to gamble their secrecy on a guy who does behave a bit like a...-hmm, what's the right word...hick, possibly? -sometimes.(thinking about the numerous Bushism, and the 'We're gonna get these folks.' When I heard that on TV, I thought his next words were going to be 'Let's round ourselves up a posse! Yee-haw!) Oh, and my guess is the Greys are withholding on the updates because Majestic has been cooling towards them following things like the events in Convergence, and this is a way of the Greys demonstrating how much MJ-12 needs them. You know, the old 'Grovel, and we might relent. Keep on mistrusting us, and, well...this kind of thing is going to happen.', albiet in slightly more subtle terms. Voidchaser, hoping this message won't be misinterpreted. > I just checked the sourcebook to verify something the MiB wrote. BTW MiB, >you're WRONG WRONG WRONG!! Ha! So there! > > [a brief interlude as the Saurian Dance of Vindication is performed. MiB >wailing and gnashing teeth optional.] > > Here's the pertinent passage: > >S > >P > >O > >I > >L > >E > >R > >S >So, the questions are; > Is Bush's son out of the loop? > If not, are the Reports being updated more frequently for the War on >Terrorism? > Are the Greys delaying updates on the location of an enemy? If so, why? > >Mark McFadden > > > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/