From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 8:48 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Pluto or Implode! http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/11/09/pluto.mission/index.html Apparently, the Mi-Go - recognizing that we won't live the 10 - 12 years needed to see the results - have allowed us to go ahead with it... for now. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Mr. A.C. Marcy [sarnath7@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 9:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Fallen Just finished watching Fallen, and it got me to thinking... (uh oh) The whole movie had a very CoC feel to it. It wouldn't take much adaptation to get a roving evil spirit into DG. The "Don't ask, you don't want to know" ideas prevalent in the movie are ideal for a DG setting, and massive amounts of gunfire will not solve the problems. Now that I think more about it, the movie seems very CoC inspired. An ancient spirit, mucking around with humanity for it's own agenda. Or even in DG, maybe someone else's agenda. I probably can't do justice to the number of acronymed agencies who would employ something that moves from body to body. Off topic, the Arco Butte Pirates are poorly named, but the Post Falls, ID Trojans (think in a high school mindset) aren't much better off. Andy "spook" Marcy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 9:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Fallen Mr. Marcy wrote: <> For further inspiration see Star Trek's "Wolf in the Fold" (the Jack the Ripper episode, written by our own Robert Bloch) and Harlan Ellison's "Mefisto in Onyx," for starters. It's a fecund old meme. (I always wondered whether "Fallen" was in fact the end result of the apocryphal plan to adapt "Mefisto in Onyx" to the screen, but according to the latest from Ellison that's not the case; he's still planning to adapt it with Samuel L. Jackson to star, whenever he gets the script into shape and Jackson gets time to jump into the role.) Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 11:29 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fallen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. A.C. Marcy" > The whole movie had a very CoC feel to it. It wouldn't take much adaptation > to get a roving evil spirit into DG. The "Don't ask, you don't want to > know" ideas prevalent in the movie are ideal for a DG setting, and massive > amounts of gunfire will not solve the problems. Hmmmm. Instead of using some Mythos beastie, what about the mysterious support group the Yithians appeared to have in 'The Shadow Out of Time?' Someone that hangs about after a Yithian's tech-supported return home might hang on to the equipment rather than destroying it to cover tracks. Assuming the helpers are some sort of cult, possibly seeded in a Bene Gesserit-type program, some members in the boonies of the time stream might develop their own agenda. With the equipment available but no instruction manual, or maybe lacking the proper mindset of an experienced time traveler, the mechanism available in some low-tech backwater like the 21st century might enable mind transfer in a monkey-see monkey-do manner. There was a solo Jim Crow story in 'The Invisibles' that had sociopathic corporate types "wilding" in borrowed ghetto hosts. It had the best capper line I've seen in a coon's age ;-) "Straight out of Camptown!" Whooah! Payback's a bitch. S P O I L E R That scenario could make a great red herring for a Army of the Third Eye adventure. People exhibiting drastically different perverse behavior at night would seem like prime candidates for a hole in the head. But, no bug. Huh? Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 3:31 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: The root of all evil (was Re: [DG] The economics of anthrax) Read 'Otherland' by Tad Williams. Replace Virtual Reality Matrix-y goodness with Dreamlands. Marvel at Osiris, Lord Of The Dead. Spin DG scenario. Oh, for added fun, keep Dread in there. he's got the power to 'twist' electronics and suchlike. What if such a person existed for the Dreamlands? Suddenly, there's this guy who's really dangerous when he dreams. He can warp or wipe out whole areas of the Dreamlands - maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. The Dreamland denizens can't touch him, for obvious reasons. But there's these three guys in dark suits who just experimented with this weird drug...So you get the investigators yanked in by Hypnos/ as a kind of pest control. Course, no-one ever said the people in the Dreamlands play fair. Or, what if super-duper advanced VR and the Dreamlands actually *overlap*? Now there's a geniunely 21st century plot for ya! Sorry about the rambling nature of this - it's 9.35 here and I've been up for the past 24 hours and more. Voidchaser, Who's Off To See The Dreamlands Firsthand. > > From: "Greg Muir" > In fact, in a CoC universe, you have to wonder whether it is > barely possible > that Ri Sampei (the above-mentioned potter) might have *really* attained > some sort of higher state of being as a result of worship. Rather > D&D-ish, I > know, but with the Dreamlands, maybe it is possible. If the consciousness > survived in the DLs, could worship--fervent enough to work the worshipper > into a sort of frenzied state, something akin to a waking > dream--empower it? > > > Of course, Ri Sampei, who probably wasn't a Dreamer (although he was an > artist...Carcosa?), probably didn't survive his death, but surely some > people who are the object of worship did. Jesus, Mohommed, Joseph Smith, > Siddhartha--all had very powerful, extraordinary dreams, or saw > things that > could have been dreams--or Dreams. > >Would be rather interesting to have your living god, even if only in the >dreams. > -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 3:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Pluto or Implode! What, the Mi-Go - after hearing that rather than having to travel all the way to Earth they now get brains and body parts delivered door to door - stop the project? Voidchaser, Seeing A Niche In The Market Here, Off To Purchase Meals On Wheels And NASA. > http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/11/09/pluto.mission/index.html > >Apparently, the Mi-Go - recognizing that we won't live the 10 - 12 years >needed to see the results - have allowed us to go ahead with it... for now. > >J. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 5:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] [Challenge2] Chapter 1 CHAPTER ONE: They've Summoned a Big Thundercloud by Jussi Marttila Grant Emerson reread the email. Then he read it again. And again, just to make sure he had understood it correctly. Small beads of sweat started to form on his brow and his hands started to shake slightly. Emerson was not a man who was easily startled anymore. He had seen some bad things and lived to not tell a living soul. Some nights, his lonely laboratory had been as bad a place as a New England cemetary on a rainy October night, but he had carried out those things that had been asked of him, trying to pit his mind against things that defied all he had learned from textbooks and endless lectures. However, this sounded bad even to him. He closed down Anderson's email and started slowly to compose a message to his contact in Delta Green, choosing his words carefully so that "Agent Lenny" could not mistake the implications of what had happened. "Evening, Lenny. I have come upon something of great importance. One of my contacts in Great Britain has found out that two days ago, the British Army put in place a quarantine around a research facility (owned by Crossingham Chemicals) in Northern Ireland, near the Irish border. Official sources say that there has been a minor outbreak of contagious fever, but the contact said that there are no Porton Down or CDSC people there, just a huge amount of regular troops who have isolated the research facility. Also, my contact said his associates who were observing the troop movements there saw several people there who have been identified as Special Branch officers." Only a few hours later, David Mann, CIA Case Officer, woke up in his apartment in Georgetown. The girl was gone, but the memories of last night were still strong. She had been only twenty-three years old and full of life.... As he turned on his computer and started to read the email that had arrived that night, the pleasant thoughts went away pretty quickly. He called in sick and forwarded the message to Cell A. As he waited for the reply, he alerted the rest of his cell. Cell L gathered late that night in a Mexican restaurant in the outskirts of Washington. Sipping his iced tea, David looked at his fellow agents. Lois was a Secret Service agent whose real name was Velma Vels. The third member, Lance, was, however, not a Fed. Instead, he was a former Naval Officer from ONI who had spent most of his career doing illegal things in places he was officially never supposed to be. Lieutenant Commander Morton Lane was nearly two meters tall and was a legend in ONI. He had singlehandedly destroyed an Iraqi armored division and stuffed gerbils up Saddam's butt if the rumors were true. They weren't. These days, he worked for some semi-criminal outfit on the West Coast led by a former OSS man and he was a sort of liason between this "Kilroy" and Delta Green. It took for David the better half of an hour to explain the situation to Velma and Lane. Velma sat silent while listening to the briefing. Morton absent-mindedly fiddled with his "USS Nautilus" baseball cap. "So, what does Cell A say? " Velma asked. "The British corp, Crossingham Chemicals, has two major research facilities. One of these is on is the quarantined one. The other is outside Los Angeles. Cell A wants me and you to go to Northern Ireland, while you, Morton, contact your people on the West Coast. It's their turf, and he can use all the help we can get." "Do we have any kind of idea what is going on there?" Morton asked. "No," David said, sighing. "I just wish we had some more information." *** Thank you, Jussi! We have a mysterious mission and a set of primary characters. How long will they survive?? Next up, the man who seats his clients in furniture by HR Giger, Eckhard! Chapter 2: Eckhard "Lawyer of Love" Huelshoff Chapter 3: J. Edward "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" Chapter 4: Arjun "Wunderkind" Roy Chapter 5: Andrew John Farrow Chapter 6: "Nocstar" Chapter 7: Jay "Til Eulenspiegel" Dugger Chapter 8: Thom "Pallid Mask" Ryng Chapter 9: David "Skywise" Clements Chapter 10: Paul Michael Janousek Chapter 11: Nerva "Nervy" Vels Chapter 12: Ross "Not Ron" Howard Chapter 13: Chris "Don't Take Any Wooden" Nichols Chapter 14: Phil "Emerald Hammer" Ward Chapter 15: Julian "Big Jules" Breen Chapter 16: Tolga Yanasik Chapter 17: John "Stango" Stanley Chapter 18: The Nuge Chapter 19: AC "DC" Marcy Chapter 20: Yossi Gurvitz Chapter 21: Davide "Dr Dee" Mana Chapter 22: Shannon Chapter 23: Graeme Price Chapter 24: Marshall "Hands" Gatten Chapter 25: Stuart "Spanish Jonn" Sands Chapter 26: Nick "Harvey" Brownlow Chapter 27: Frank "The Quiet Man" Adams Chapter 28: Mark "The Lizard King" McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 5:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: The root of all evil (was Re: [DG] The economics of anthrax) From: >>> What if such a person existed for the Dreamlands? Suddenly, there's this guy who's really dangerous when he dreams. He can warp or wipe out whole areas of the Dreamlands - maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. The Dreamland denizens can't touch him, for obvious reasons. But there's these three guys in dark suits who just experimented with this weird drug...So you get the investigators yanked in by Hypnos/ as a kind of pest control. Course, no-one ever said the people in the Dreamlands play fair.<<< Our own soon-to-be-Professor Davide "Lenny" Mana wrote a story with a similar (yet different) idea that should be somewhere up at the Ice Cave, only I couldn't find it just now. Do you have a URL for that, Davide? Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 3:05 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: Ice Ice Water >Maybe you are not aware, but this is more or less the premise of the first The odd thing is that, as a rule, one can presume I am not aware. It certainly would have held in this instance. >The series starts with a drinking problem but expands to include high >adventure, noir situations, blackmail and betrayal, espionage, a conspiracy >to start interplanetary war, some weird aliens and a cult-like cabal (plus Too future societied. I was thinking a 'real' 10 years down the road from now. >The English version is published by Dark Horse and is really worth checking >if you are into post-modern adventure. Actually, I'm more into CoC-ish adventure. Handful of educated individuals trapped in the boonies against Things Best Left Unknown, Not Poked, Prodded, and Cuddled And Whatever You Do Not Thawed Or Risen From The Deep (or some variation thereof) -- for the Cuddled part, I'm again without the title to recall. It revolved around a warlock who ended up in a woman's body. Nuff said. Space shuttle, and EVA in space... those seem as trapped and boony as one can actually get. Hence the appeal. >The main problem with importing ice from space is that you do not know >exactly what's coming in together with the water. The world I was forecasting would be a too short on time to care. Like, going to the store and buying a calander, flipping to the back, and it said, "December 24, last drips of water siphoned from drinkable oceanic supplies." (they always put the warmest little reminders in those things) >Bringing more of the same in willingly is ulikely. Desperate times. Desperate measures. Or rather. No time. Any measures. >But you could get huge, orbital ice-processing factories, and do the Alien >thing from there on. Orbital facilities take years. As a sustained process, this would perhaps happen. As a part of the immediate outlined scenario, this wouldn't be an option. I'm really seeing like today, without any progress, unless you count the further muckification of the oceans progress. but anyway. I suppose if one were going for lots of trouble, one could have an encounter with a Colour on the way up, creepy crawlie (your pick! or even make up your own! The Little Prince Orc!) who lives on it when they actually get to the ice body (combat in 0 G without weapons in EVA -- YEAH!!! Make -sure- your gunfondlers are there for that), and the best part would be the ice body splashes down deep (in the muck). Deep Ones get it thrice, being convinced there's a war on with the surface dwellers from the water pollutants, then the comet, which should smash down in the middle of a nice sized colony (so we have mainstream interaction, oh yeah), and then... from the mind controlling collective intelligent parasites that had been dormant in the ice body until it started thawing in the ocean. If you remember the tentacle from another dimension disease, make it one of those! you know you want to. Have it leap to the humans from Deep Ones... Am I bad? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Martin Andersson [klarkash@tiscali.se] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 7:07 AM To: Delta Green Subject: [DG] Hi everybody! Newish member Greetings, My name is Martin Andersson, and I'm an old retired member of this list who has finally found his way back to the fold (for various silly reasons I couldn't keep up with the list when there wasn't a digest version). I seldom have the time to play, but I still keep up to date with my favourite games, which of course include CoC and DG (I got a copy of the Anniversary Edition of CoC!!!!). My only claim to fame is that I have errata credit in the second edition of DG:CD. ;) My presentation can be found in the Ice Cave, at the top of the list; it hasn't changed much, except that I'm now 25 years old and work as a teacher. Yr obt Servt A. E. Martin Andersson From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Mclean [Shane.Mclean@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 7:17 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Doctor-Patient Privilege > --- Gil Trevizo schrieb: > questions on a patient's > > condition, ailments, and what > > medications she might be under. What I'm wondering > > is how easy is it for > > law enforcement to get around that relationship. I > > doubt that they can get > > the doctor to say anything, but can they get a > > warrant to search the > > doctor's records or would that be protected by > > doctor-patient privilege? I've interrogated my wife about this (she's a nurse) and it's like this: Disclaimer - this is UK law, but it's probably similar in the US. The doctor is well within his legal rights to refuse to comment about anything to do with his patients to law enforcement folks (in fact, to tell the cops about it he must first ask the patient's permission if able). To (legally) get acces to the records the cops must: a) get a signed authority from the patient. b) in the case of dead/comatose-type patients a signed authority from living relatives will do. c) if no relatives are availible and/or the patient won't/can't sign then they can go to court in a similar way to getting a search warrant. The cops have to show VERY good reason to need access. The court will contact the doctor's practice to get the input of them, and of the relatives, and then will make a descision. The court can override the doctor and the realtives, no matter how much they object, but like I said the cops need to have a damn-good reason for access. Hope this helps. Take care, Shane _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Mclean [Shane.Mclean@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 7:20 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] FBI profile of anthrax mailer > " He may have exhibited significant behavioral changes at various critical > periods of time throughout the course of the Anthrax mailings and related > media coverage. These may include the following; > > 1. Altered physical appearance. > 2. Pronounced anxiety. > 3. Atypical media interest. > 4. Noticeable mood swings. > 5. More withdrawn. > 6. Unusual level of preoccupation. > 7. Unusual absenteeism. > 8. Altered sleeping and/or eating habits." Erm, this describes half the women I know..... Sorry, please resume normal transmissions. Shane Mantra - Do not waste bandwidth, do not waste bandwidth, do not... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:14 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: OBL interview Here is a transcript of an interview from the Paki English-language newspaper DAWN The guy impresses me deeply. He is anything but a fool. ObDG raw materiel The Glove Cleaner Published on Saturday, November 10, 2001 in DAWN, Pakistan's leading English-language newspaper Osama Claims He Has Nukes: If US Uses N-arms It Will Get Same Response by Hamid Mir KABUL, Nov 9: Osama bin Laden has said that "we have chemical and nuclear weapons as a deterrent and if America used them against us we reserve the right to use them". He said this in a special interview with Hamid Mir, the editor of Ausaf, for Dawn and Ausaf, at an undisclosed location near Kabul. This was the first interview given by Osama to any journalist after the September 11 attacks in New York and Washington. The correspondent was taken blindfolded in a jeep from Kabul on the night of Nov 7 to a place where it was extremely cold and one could hear the sound of anti-aircraft guns firing away. After a wait of some time , Osama arrived with about a dozen bodyguards and Dr Ayman Al-Zuwahiri and answered questions. Hamid Mir: After American bombing on Afghanistan on Oct 7, you told the Al-Jazeera TV that the Sept 11 attacks had been carried out by some Muslims. How did you know they were Muslims ? Osama bin Laden: The Americans themselves released a list of the suspects of the Sept 11 attacks, saying that the persons named were involved in the attacks. They were all Muslims, of whom 15 belonged to Saudi Arabia, two were from the UAE and one from Egypt. According to the information I have, they were all passengers. Fateha was held for them in their homes. But America said they were hijackers. HM: In your statement of Oct 7, you expressed satisfaction over the Sept 11 ttacks, although a large number of innocent people perished in them, hundreds among them were Muslims. Can you justify the killing of innocent men in the light of Islamic teachings ? OBL: This is a major point in jurisprudence. In my view, if an enemy occupies a Muslim territory and uses common people as human shield, then it is permitted to attack that enemy. For instance, if bandits barge into a home and hold a child hostage, then the child's father can attack the bandits and in that attack even the child may get hurt. America and its allies are massacring us in Palestine, Chechenya, Kashmir and Iraq. The Muslims have the right to attack America in reprisal. The Islamic Shariat says Muslims should not live in the land of the infidel for long. The Sept 11 attacks were not targeted at women and children. The real targets were America's icons of military and economic power. The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) was against killing women and children. When he saw a dead woman during a war, he asked why was she killed ? If a child is above 13 and wields a weapon against Muslims, then it is permitted to kill him. The American people should remember that they pay taxes to their government, they elect their president, their government manufactures arms and gives them to Israel and Israel uses them to massacre Palestinians. The American Congress endorses all government measures and this proves that the entire America is responsible for the atrocities perpetrated against Muslims. The entire America, because they elect the Congress. I ask the American people to force their government to give up anti-Muslim policies. The American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam. They must do the same today. The American people should stop the massacre of Muslims by their government. HM: Can it be said that you are against the American government, not the American people ? OSB: Yes! We are carrying on the mission of our Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). The mission is to spread the word of God, not to indulge massacring people. We ourselves are the target of killings, destruction and atrocities. We are only defending ourselves. This is defensive Jihad. We want to defend our people and our land. That is why I say that if we don't get security, the Americans, too would not get security. This is a simple formula that even an American child can understand. This is the formula of live and let live. HM: The head of Egypt's Jamia Al-Azhar has issued a fatwa (edict) against you, saying that the views and beliefs of Osama bin Laden have nothing to do with Islam. What do you have to say about that ? OSB: The fatwa of any official Aalim has no value for me. History is full of such Ulema who justify Riba, who justify the occupation of Palestine by the Jews, who justify the presence of American troops around Harmain Sharifain. These people support the infidels for their personal gain.The true Ulema support the Jihad against America. Tell me if Indian forces invaded Pakistan what would you do? The Israeli forces occupy our land and the American troops are on our territory. We have no other option but to launch Jihad. HM: Some Western media claim that you are trying to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons. How much truth is there in such reports? OSB: I heard the speech of American President Bush yesterday (Oct 7). He was scaring the European countries that Osama wanted to attack with weapons of mass destruction. I wish to declare that if America used chemical or nuclear weapons against us, then we may retort with chemical and nuclear weapons. We have the weapons as deterrent. HM: Where did you get these weapons from ? OSB: Go to the next question. HM: Demonstrations are being held in many European countries against American attacks on Afghanistan. Thousands of the protesters were non-Muslims. What is your opinion about those non-Muslim protesters ? OSB: There are many innocent and good-hearted people in the West. American media instigates them against Muslims. However, some goodhearted people are protesting against American attacks because human nature abhors injustice. The Muslims were massacred under the UN patronage in Bosnia. I am ware that some officers of the State Department had resigned in protest. Many years ago the US ambassador in Egypt had resigned in protest against the policies of President Jimmy Carter. Nice and civilized are everywhere. The Jewish lobby has taken America and the West hostage. HM: Some people say that war is no solution to any issue. Do you think that some political formula could be found to stop the present war ? OSB: You should put this question to those who have started this war. We are only defending ourselves. HM: If America got out of Saudi Arabia and the Al-Aqsa mosque was liberated,would you then present yourself for trial in some Muslim country ? OSB: Only Afghanistan is an Islamic country. Pakistan follows the English law. I don't consider Saudi Arabia an Islamic country. If the Americans have charges against me, we too have a charge sheet against them. HM: Pakistan government decided to cooperate with America after Sept 11, which you don't consider right.What do you think Pakistan should have done but to cooperate with America ? OSB: The government of Pakistan should have the wishes of the people in view. It should not have surrendered to the unjustified demands of America. America does not have solid proof against us. It just has some surmises. It is unjust to start bombing on the basis of those surmises. HM: Had America decided to attack Pakistan with the help of India and Israel, what would have we done ? OSB: What has America achieved by attacking Afghanistan ? We will not leave the Pakistani people and the Pakistani territory at anybody's mercy. We will defend Pakistan. But we have been disappointed by Gen Pervez Musharraf. He says that the majority is with him. I say the majority is against him. Bush has used the word crusade. This is a crusade declared by Bush. It is no wisdom to barter off blood of Afghan brethren to improve Pakistan's economy.He will be punished by the Pakistani people and Allah. Right now a great war of Islamic history is being fought in Afghanistan. All the big powers are united against Muslims. It is ' sawab ' to participate in this war. HM: A French newspaper has claimed that you had kidney problem and had secretly gone to Dubai for treatment last year. Is that correct ? OSB: My kidneys are all right. I did not go to Dubai last year. One British newspaper has published an imaginary interview with Islamabad dateline with one of my sons who lives in Saudi Arabia. All this is false. HM: Is it correct that a daughter of Mulla Omar is your wife or your daughter is Mulla Omar's wife ? OSB: (Laughs). All my wives are Arabs ( and all my daughters are married to Arab Mujahideen). I have spiritual relationship with Mulla Omar. He is a great and brave Muslim of this age. He does not fear anyone but Allah. He is not under any personal relationship or obligation to me. He is only discharging his religious duty. I, too, have not chosen this life out of any personal consideration. © The DAWN Group of Newspapers, 2001 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 1:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: Ice Ice Water ----- Original Message ----- From: "talaphid" > > > Am I bad? Not wanting to put too many knockers on this whole thing . . . there is no way importing water from Outa Space would ever be economic compared to something like desalination. However I can imagine importing icebergs that had something else in them - say a rare crystalline form of ice that only grew very slowly in the Rings of Saturn, or something like that. Solid state intelligences raging as they are awoken ? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 2:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] FBI profile of anthrax mailer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Mclean" > > Erm, this describes half the women I know..... Only half? ;-) To: Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:25 AM Subject: [DG] Real weirdness > Got this from the Cruel Site of the Day (www.cruel.com). > > That's glovecleaner style, not The Glovecleaner's style. He types. > This one was mine. I don't remember drawing the heart on. I usually draw trees or lightening or stuff. I don't remember writing it at all, actually. But it's my handwriting. http://www.foundmagazine.com/notes/nowater.html The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:38 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fiction: A Good Book is Hard to Come By, Part III From: "Andy Robertson" > One point of criticism which I will put onlist is this: there is too much > backstory here. We don't need so much or so detailed a description of > the characters' appearance, sexual attractiveness ratings, professional > history, etc. > > A good rule for short stories, I believe, is to cut out everything that is > not directly relevant to the plot. That allows the reader to imagine > themselves in the place of the characters more easily. > > However, I am enjoying this story! I've got to agree with Andy here. I'm enjoying the story, but I feel like it's being derailed (that is, I'm being pulled out of the story) every time we go off into backstory. Example, from Part III: > Miller was a field agent with the Reno office of the FBI, leading a somewhat > humdrum career. His specialty was forensic psychology, and he had a knack > for understanding the proclivities of the derranged. He could keep a cool > head when dealing with the most irrational people, and had a knack for > crosswords. This is what writing teachers are talking about when they say "Show, don't tell." As much as possible, reveal these details through the character's actions, or at least through internal monologue rather than having them announced by gawd. I get the feeling that you'll work this out just fine on a rewrite. Perhaps the reason I'm so sensitive about it is that I do the same thing on the first draft. Don't worry about it early on--just get the story down, and if this is how it comes to you, then that's OK. On the rewrite, I usually try to rework it to reveal info about characters at the same rate that the other characters learn it, so that the reader can feel as if he or she is present as an invisible character. If the character is alone, engaging in internal monologue (or dialog, as the case may be), then background details are revealed only as they would naturally surface in the character's mind. For example, Miller's knack for crossword puzzles would be best revealed in a later scene, say, in a waiting room, when Miller opens his briefcase and takes out one of those huge, fat books of crossword puzzles that only the real hobbyists buy. Or he could turn to the crossword puzzle in the newspaper first, even before reading the front page, polish it off in 5 minutes, sniff disdainfully at it, and then finally start reading the paper. All this while the other characters just kind of stare. (Yeah, I know, pretty unsubtle, but you get the idea--if it seems like too much, you can always tone it down a little.) Miller's feelings about his job ("humdrum") could be revealed during a conversation with Marshall. He'd be telling her about his cover job, maybe, but he'd really be talking about his real job. Sorry I took so long, by the way--it's the old "I have 500 students and I must scream!" excuse. I'm looking forward to the story as it continues to unfold. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 11:26 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fiction: A Good Book is Hard to Come By, Part III ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farnell" > This is what writing teachers are talking about when they say "Show, don't > tell." As much as possible, reveal these details through the character's > actions, or at least through internal monologue rather than having them > announced by gawd. Best rule of thumb: if the information or characterization doesn't come from dialogue or actions a warning bell should go off. Actually, rather than waiting for the big rewrite, I bookmark those passages and rework them when I get stuck or delayed at some point in the story. I'll do some cut&pasteing and distribute the exposition through sections that came later, or something I said later will inspire a better way and place to deliver the info. While I'm doing the cleanup my subconscious usually works out the other problem. I used to actually make a checklist of things about a character that I wanted to say, then dole them out one at a time and cross them off. I'd have an informal rule that I'd avoid giving more than one factoid per paragraph. Sometimes you have to use artificial tricks like that until it becomes reflexive. The tendency to overexplain a character usually comes up when they are first introduced. I call this the journalism trap, trying to get Who What When Where & Why into the first paragraph. Since that is often the format of essays it gets reinforced throughout school. Unfortunately, many writing teachers don't teach the "Show, don't tell" lesson until after all those exercises where you describe someone on one page. Who can blame a writer for wanting to get that exposition out of the way so they can get on with interesting stuff like the story? > I get the feeling that you'll work this out just fine on a rewrite. Same here. It's got a solid foundation. > On the rewrite, I usually try > to rework it to reveal info about characters at the same rate that the other > characters learn it, so that the reader can feel as if he or she is present > as an invisible character. Well put. I like that a lot. The stuff of mine I'm happiest with was the stuff that I didn't plan ahead of time. I finally understand what some of my literary heroes meant when they talked of the story telling itself to them. Nowadays I dive in with a situation and protaganist with only an idea of where it *could* go and no idea of how it ends. > Sorry I took so long, by the way--it's the old "I have 500 students and I > must scream!" excuse. I'm looking forward to the story as it continues to > unfold. Yeah, sorry I took so long too. I'm watching my own story unfold. I thought it was going to be a short story for Halloween night, but it decided it had more ambition. I've got nothing concrete to say about your story, as I said it has a good foundation. So here's some tricks and homilies. Now get back to work. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Mike Marchi [mikemarchi@demonground.org] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 11:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] [Challenge2] Chapter 1 Just out of curiousity, does material like this get reprinted anywhere else? Considering how well organized this list tends to be, I'm assuming the answer is 'Yes'. The reason I ask, is that we've been after you guys to submit material for DEMONGROUND for a while, and this strikes me as a very easy way for Delta Green-specific stuff into the 'zine. We've had quite a bit of Call of Cthulhu material in the past few issues, but we'd like to see something specific for Delta Green. If not this sort of thing, drop me a line with alternative ideas. We're pretty open. Mike Marchi Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future 2000 Origins Award Nominee - Best Amateur Game Periodical www.demonground.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Dave Farnell Sent: November 11, 2001 5:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] [Challenge2] Chapter 1 > CHAPTER ONE: They've Summoned a Big Thundercloud > by Jussi Marttila > > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:25 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] FICTION: The Halloween Caper -- part 2 (long) The latest installment. He said he's working on the rest, but he had to take a break to research the Sleepy Lagoon murder for some reason. "Leverage," he said. *********************** The Halloween Caper part 2 by Patrick Leary Instead of heading home I drove towards downtown until the sign said "Hollywood" and everything was in color. I headed south on major thoroughfares and looked for green signs pointing to freeway access to get the right context, then got on Interstate 5 heading south. I was amused to see the big Brew 102 sign was back. I guess I'm not the only one that used it as a landmark to start shifting to the right hand lane to make the Long Beach Freeway exit. I reminded myself to look for the mural of the Snake Lady when I returned. I miss the old gal. The Long Beach is one of the older freeways, so my pickup had plenty of relatively slow-moving company. Most of the tourists tend to cluster around Hollywood and Westwood and Rodeo Drive in the ubiquitous Porsches they think everyone drives in Southern California. There wasn't much road rage evident at that time of night, although there was a running gun battle between an enthusiastic convoy of tourists from Japan and a silly collection of Crips, Bloods and low-riders that came off like a combination of "Stage Coach" and "The Road Warrior" as we passed through Compton. I particularly liked the detail of low-riders bouncing like the Mark Five as they weaved through traffic. Terminal Island still looked like the outskirts of Mordor. I got off on the "Piers 17 to 23" offramp, then carefully down an unnamed side street with no lighting. The sign for Green Triangle Shipping is easy to miss and the guard shack at the gate was unlit, but the retired NPC manning it wasn't really watching the portable TV in there with him. He zapped my eyes with an oversized Maglite while putting on a pretty good imitation of a bumbling rent-a-cop, then he recognized me and we chatted for a bit. He had been in Delta Green as well, we'd worked the Convergence Caper together. When he opened the gate for me he gave an up-and-down waggle of the light to have the sniper stand down. The parking lot for The Green Box is concealed from the road by a line of cargo containers that get shuffled in the daytime. There were some Humvees and a sprinkling of overpowered motorcycles, plus the usual collection of exotics. Someone must have been reading "The Killer Elite" recently, because there was a black London cab. Then I spotted a pearl white Avanti convertible. Good. Smith has his connection downtown, but I have connections too. One of a cluster of cargo containers has a door installed in its side. I pushed through and was met with the last reprise of 'Beautiful People' coming from a genuine Rock-Ola jukebox I didn't remember from last time. The joint was jumpin'. Internal walls had been cut away to connect to surrounding cargo containers and the bar was now an island in the center rather than a strip along one side. At least Harry was still familiar, and so was the expresso machine he was wrestling with. "Harry, when you get a moment can I get an Irish Rebellion?" He flashed a grin over his shoulder and said "Coming right up. Nelson at the gate called and said you were coming in. Long time no see pardner. How' re you doing?" "Pretty good. Kicking ass and chewing gum. You?" "Paying the bills and then some. Did you see my assistant bartender?" "No. Do I know him?" "Sort of. He was supplying exposition the first time you were here." "@man? Hey, that's great." "Yeah, he helps cut down on the ubiquitous and omnipresent references." He slid a tall mug topped with whipped cream to me. "I found a peated single malt Irish from Connemara, tell me what you think." I sipped and closed my eyes. Mmmmmmmmm. Smokey blues performed by the Chieftains with a finish like the good smells in a rainy forest. It had a beat and you could slow dance to it. "It really should be illegal," I said. "Glad you like it. So, what brings you back to the fold?" 'Sweet Dreams (are made of this)' came on the jukebox. "I need to talk to the Lizard King." "He's with the bitch at the end of the bar," he said, nodding towards a blue merle Australian Shepherd with her nose in a bowl of peanuts. "Do me a favor and tell her that's the last Marilyn Manson for the evening. I know she likes his eyes, but enough is enough." "Harry says no more Marilyn Manson tonight," I said, taking a stool across the corner. The Aussie gave me an enquiring look with her white muzzle down, like a head librarian giving the evil eye over reading glasses. Her right eye was a deep brown with a light gray comma on the inside half, the left was a pale blue-gray. Both eyes had black lids and lashes, with circles of dark gray on tan cheeks surrounding them and crowned with tan "eyebrows." She glared towards Harry for a moment with her lips curled back on the left; sort of like Elvis but with more teeth. She snapped her jaws once and snorted through her nose, then looked back at me with eyebrows and ears raised. I've seen weirder things than a dog that could give Marcel Marceau lessons. Not many, but I have to maintain my image of unflappability. "I see you've met She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed," said the Lizard King as he returned to his seat beside the dog. "It's good to see you Patrick. Tilly -- Patrick. Patrick -- Tilly." "I almost didn't recognize you," I said. "When did you defect?" "Say what?" "From the Cavaliers to the Roundheads?" "Oh, this," he replied, running his hand over the salt and pepper buzz cut. "A few months back. The whole point to letting it grow was to simplify things, but when I added up all the washing and pulling it out from under seatbelts and jackets and backpacks, that reason didn't stand. When I got it caught in a power supply fan I took the hint." "It goes well with that Jean Reno not-quite-unshaven not-quite-a-beard thing." "But I shave my neck. Scrape scrape in the shower, beard trimmer on 2 once a week and I'm stylin'. Should have done it years ago. By the way, you've go t something on your lip." My turn. "Costume. It upgrades the outfit from labor to management." "Enough with the fashion tips. Did I miss anything while I was returning the Guinness to the ecosystem?" "Harry declared a moratorium on Marilyn Manson and Tilly appears to think he's being a turd." "Gave him the Elvis Lip did she? Tell you what Till -- let someone else have a chance at the jukebox for awhile, then I'll put on some John Lee Hooker. Deal?" Her tail thwapped the barstool a few times, her mouth opened a bit and she panted happily with her eyes squinted shut. The King smiled fondly at her. "She started coming along with me a couple of months ago. Now that she's the only dog in the house we've sort of re-established a degree of bonding we haven't had since she was a puppy. I put her in a story and that seems to have opened the way for her. I've been giving her little Turing tests to see if she's really Tilly and not my idea of Tilly, if you know what I mean. She's Tilly." "Whoa! She's *your* dog? She's not a local?" "She's as real as I am. Whatever." ".that means. That's amazing." He reached out and stroked her head. "I don't know. Anyone who's lived with a dog knows that they dream. Their legs twitch and they yip, sometimes they give a woof. If you look closely you'll see something like rapid eye movement. I know some relentlessly rational types will say I'm anthropomorphizing, but I reply that they made up their minds before observing dogs. When I'm feeling mean I ask them what are they afraid of, evidence of canine souls?" "I wonder if she went anywhere before she followed you." He looked pole axed for a moment and gave a low whistle. "Goooood one. That would be a hell of a place to visit, wouldn't it? Sometime I'll have to take her for a doubleyew-ay-ell-kay and let her lead." "You have to spell.?" "How 'bout those Bears, huh?" He was shaking his head out of her line of sight and giving me all kinds of ixnay signals. "Whoops. Sorry. Hey, is it time for another round?" Tilly gave a soft bark. "And I'll have another Guinness." When Harry brought the drinks (a Bullshot without vodka in a bowl for Tilly) I asked him to stick around for a bit, since what I needed to talk about involved him to a degree. Harry waved at @man and fetched a short stool. "I suppose you are all wondering why I called you here tonight," I began. "It was Colonel Mustard in the Rumpus Room with the chainsaw," Harry replied. "Pick up the pace, I'm busy." "Okay, I'll try not to embellish too much. But if you have any questions along the way, especially about how things work out there, bring them up. If you don't know what to ask we'll bookmark it for later." So I glossed over what I'd been up to since I'd seen them last with only a few interruptions, then started getting specific about the events of the last few days. I was just at the part where I jumped the gunsel outside the warehouse when LK broke in. "This is going to sound weird, but bear with me. I think it might be important. Patrick, how would you define 'gunsel'?" "Muscle. Hood. An armed underling." "Uh huh. Now, where did you pick that up, and this is important -- can you think of any other definitions? Any other at all." I sipped my drink and gave the questions my full attention. I could already see one permutation to what he was bringing up. "Okay, I use the word 'gunsel' as I saw it used in all those hardboiled mysteries I read back home. But the problem with that is I never read any mysteries." ".because you were fiction. Because I.uh, well." "Oh come on, there's no need to be embarrassed. Because you created me. Because you *wrote* me. Massa Lizard, you also emancipated my depressed ass. So don't apologize. Now, what's so important about the definition of 'gunsel '?" He took a sip from his beer. "Because of something I learned about "The Maltese Falcon" a couple of weeks ago. Dashiell Hammett called Gutman's associate, Wilmer, his gunsel. "He is like a son to me," the Fat Man said. That was the guy played by Elisha Cook Jr. in the movie. Hammett was trying to convey something that the standards of the time wouldn't allow him to insinuate. Legend has it that he first described Wilmer as Gutman's 'gooseberry lay', which was guaranteed to cause the editor to demand a change. Cute, because 'gooseberry lay' is old hobo slang for stealing clothes off of a clothesline, but it sure sounds perverse. So the editor demands a replacement and Hammett gives him gunsel, which the editor, like most people since then, assumes is slang for gunman. Hammett got the reference he actually wanted, because 'gunsel' is the Americanized form of the Yiddish 'ganzel,' meaning literally gosling or young goose." "I'm sure glad you gave us that info," snarled Harry. "I hate to think I could have gone through life not knowing Dashiell Hammett wanted to insinuate Elisha Cook Jr. was a goose." "Is that how you bear with me? Ganzel, and therefore gunsel *literally* means gosling, but that is slang for catamite. Bumboy. Boy toy. Once again for the nuance-impaired, Dashiell Hammett was saying that Wilmer was Gutman' s personal pillow-biter." "That does tend to put my jumping the gunsel from behind in a whole new light," I said. I was pleased to see LK shoot a stream of Guinness out of his nose, and Harry almost burst a vessel trying to pretend he wasn't amused. Tilly looked at us like the RCA dog, then shrugged and went back to her drink. After wiping his face LK continued. "The point I'm trying to make is that we share some knowledge, but we also differ. Let's assume that you know whatever I knew when I, uh." "Wrote me." "Yeah. I've got a collection of Black Lizard crime fiction, so you have a working knowledge of the classics. But any information I've picked up since I stopped writing about you isn't available to you. Are you with me so far?" I didn't think I liked where it was going, but I nodded for him to continue. "I wrote that you were a detective with the L.A.P.D., but I never wrote anything about you on the job. It was all Delta Green stuff with you on leave or loaned to a bogus task force. I didn't do much research about your day job. So tell me, what does 10-4 mean?" "Acknowledge. Everyone knows that." I really didn't like where this was going. "What does 10-16 mean? 10-97?" "I don't know." "'Picking up prisoner' and 'Arriving on scene.' I learned that about a month ago for something I was working on." "And any real cop would know all the radio 10-codes. Shit." "On the other hand, I've never done any two-fisted shooting and you've been doing it pretty well. I wrote that you were a good shot and practiced at a combat range. I read mysteries but I've never been a detective -- you are making a living at it. You aren't limited to my abilities. You aren't even limited to what I can think of." He pointed to Tilly's wagging tail. "Want to know something weird? She doesn't have a tail back home. I didn't think of that -- she did." "But she's real." "Whatever that means. I'm not sure it makes that much difference. Look, let 's shelve this for now and get back to your story. So, you were about to assault the gunsel from the rear. Action." I worked through the events in the warehouse and hospital, Harry snorted when I got to missing Hard Case four times. I made a mental note to practice. When I recounted my meeting with Lieutenant Smith, LK broke in again. "Dudley fucking Smith! Jesus. Did you change your shorts before coming here?" "I was like a deer in the headlights until the Click kicked in. Thanks for that characteristic by the way -- it's saved my hide a few times." "De nada. I've got a little of it myself and I figured it would come in handy since I kept putting you in bad situations. Sorry about those, I thought it was just a game and then I thought they were just stories." The lapsed Catholic in me hoped God felt as guilty for how he treated His creations. He withdrew into his beer for a moment, looking sad. I don't think he's ever realized how relieved I am not to have turned out like the burnout that recruited me for Delta Green. *"If the intelligence community was a family, Delta Green would be the uncle nobody talks about,"* he said, then went on to quote Tom Waits. *He* probably got a 9 millimeter pension plan. "Hey, what would you rather be," I said, "a two-fisted private dick who's his own man, or a techie with a mortgage during a recession? You have to wake up now and then, but I get to stay here. I'm living your daydreams, so I think we're even." Tilly must have picked up some of what he was feeling. She had a paw on his shoulder and was scrutinizing his face. "Gimme some sugar baby," he said, and leaned in for a face washing. She spent a lot of time on his eyes for some reason. *********************** -- to be continued -- He exaggerates. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 2:15 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] [Challenge2] Chapter 1 From: "Mike Marchi" > Just out of curiousity, does material like this get reprinted anywhere else? > Considering how well organized this list tends to be, I'm assuming the > answer is 'Yes'. Well, Davide Mana maintains the official Challenge page at http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/Robin.htm That has *most* of last year's Challenge along with some other goodies. After he finishes his PhD (should be in a few days now), he's planning on doing some cool things with that. > The reason I ask, is that we've been after you guys to submit material for > DEMONGROUND for a while, and this strikes me as a very easy way for Delta > Green-specific stuff into the 'zine. Sounds like a call to arms! Or keyboards anyway. Tell you what, if I ever get this little story that's been bouncing around my head for the past couple of weeks written down (it features a return of Agent Laura), I'll send it in. But as far as the Challenge goes--well, take a look at last year's. (I'll send you the proofed chapters in TXT format after I get home tonight.) It's pretty darned massive (24 chapters, each written by a different author), so while I think you'll get a kick out of it, I don't know if you'll consider it suitable for your magazine. But hey, if you do, we'll work something out. And by "we," I'm including all 24 authors... :-) And as for this year's Challenge, I'm not sure yet, but we'll probably put up the chapters on a webpage like we did last year. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jessthecatasc@eircom.net Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Tap water Water-fondling. I have seen it all. (well, bar an Antelope do an impersonation of Sigfried Sassoon. But you get the idea.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jessthecatasc@eircom.net Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:26 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fallen > to get a roving evil spirit into DG. Bollocks to it: Avatar of Nyarlathotep. Or Senior Sock if need be. I prefer the Big N myself. Hell, if he can be a fat chinese chick with a fan, why not a transphysical id? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Ah, fuck... http://www.cnn.com Another jet fell from the sky. Everyone in Queens alright? J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of John Daly [jdaly_iv@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fallen --- jessthecatasc@eircom.net wrote: > > to get a roving evil spirit into DG. > > > Bollocks to it: Avatar of Nyarlathotep. Or Senior > Sock if need be. I prefer the Big N myself. Hell, if > he can be a fat chinese chick with a fan, why not a > transphysical id? > _______________________________________ I dunno. Seems like an aweful waste of Narly's powers. And isn't he currently residing in Stephen Whats-his-face in New York? All I know is the last time I was a player in a game where we faced Narly, the final casualty count was 85 agents, a few hundred evil cultists, and a professional football stadium full of people. Wouldn't it be better to use a wigged out member of the great race or something?? John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Anarchy [anarchy@agentsofchaos.org] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ah, fuck... > http://www.cnn.com > > Another jet fell from the sky. Everyone in Queens alright? Oh well. Hey, I'm sure it wasn't aimed at Queens. Who would aim it at Queens? Or Brooklyn, for that matter? I can't help thinking the hijackers end up saying "Queens? Oh, crap. There's nothing to blow up in Queens! Allah damn it." Scott / Anarchy (Safe in Brooklyn) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Randell.Wolff@kctcs.net Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green Howdy. I'm back subscribing to the list after a half-year's absence. It's good to be back. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on the list knew if the D20 Call of Cthulhu game that is going to be released soon will have information about running the game in a more modern setting (such as the one described in Delta Green). Also, how many of you plan on checking out the new D20 version of CoC when it comes out? I know I certainly will be. The only thing that I don't like about CoC is the rules. If I had a better system, I'd play it much more often (and I have a feeling my players would also be more apt to). Thank you for your time. Randell Wolff _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:31 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Doctor-Patient Privilege And this is for the US, YMMV: Might also have your intrepid agents check with the subjects employer. Over here, for any position deemed "sensitive" preemployment background checks are normal. One of mine covered medical records (insurance screening, dontcha know). The "boilerplate" waiver was very broad, and covered all medical records in my name. It did expire... one year after date of employment. Your subject may have signed something similar (Keepers choice :) ) Your agents could access an HR type in the subjects company, have him/her gain the medical files in question (just double checking our records for an upcoming audit) and pass copies to the agents. Disclaimer - this is UK law, but it's probably similar in the US. The doctor is well within his legal rights to refuse to comment about anything to do with his patients to law enforcement folks (in fact, to tell the cops about it he must first ask the patient's permission if able). To (legally) get acces to the records the cops must: a) get a signed authority from the patient. b) in the case of dead/comatose-type patients a signed authority from living relatives will do. c) if no relatives are availible and/or the patient won't/can't sign then they can go to court in a similar way to getting a search warrant. The cops have to show VERY good reason to need access. The court will contact the doctor's practice to get the input of them, and of the relatives, and then will make a descision. The court can override the doctor and the realtives, no matter how much they object, but like I said the cops need to have a damn-good reason for access. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Fallen <> Don't forget, though, two of N's hallmarks are (1) capricious attention to individuals and (2) he's EVERYWHERE, man, everywhere! That's why we love him so much - if you need a quick Mythos explanation and nothing else is handy, he'll almost always fit the bill. Nyarlathotep is perfect for making the Mythos personal; sure, he CAN function as a typical Great Old One, killing everything for a long city block and forcing a 1d20/1d100 SAN loss on your players, but he doesn't HAVE to. Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of John Daly Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Fallen --- jessthecatasc@eircom.net wrote: > > to get a roving evil spirit into DG. > > > Bollocks to it: Avatar of Nyarlathotep. Or Senior > Sock if need be. I prefer the Big N myself. Hell, if > he can be a fat chinese chick with a fan, why not a > transphysical id? > _______________________________________ I dunno. Seems like an aweful waste of Narly's powers. And isn't he currently residing in Stephen Whats-his-face in New York? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:58 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Ah, fuck... Hey, if the suburbs aren't safe, THE TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON! But the truth is we don't know for certain yet if it was *aimed* at anything. It had just taken off from JFK, heading for the Caribbean, when something apparently blew up on board. Bomb or engine, nobody knows. They found the black box already, so maybe that will shed light. It looks like damage on the ground has been small, though 255 died on board. Lord knows, that's enough. Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ -----Original Message----- > http://www.cnn.com > > Another jet fell from the sky. Everyone in Queens alright? Oh well. Hey, I'm sure it wasn't aimed at Queens. Who would aim it at Queens? Or Brooklyn, for that matter? I can't help thinking the hijackers end up saying "Queens? Oh, crap. There's nothing to blow up in Queens! Allah damn it." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 1:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green You just missed the latest D20 thread by a couple of days. To sum up: * Many people are curious about the d20 adaptation. * The scuttlebutt is they'll place everyone in the same "Investigator" character class so you don't have to worry about any "I'm a triple-classed Doctor-Accountant-Tribal Fisherman" wonkiness. And I think I heard that they're ditching level-based hit points (personally I would be happy with a Star Wars RPG-style "vitality points" variant instead, but even that may be too D&D-ish to fit the Cthulhu genre). I think the SAN system is being imported almost unchanged into d20, but that may have been me misreading someone else's report. * DG's John Tynes is involved in writing the d20 adaptation for Chaosium, so there will definitely be a Delta Green d20 variant, perhaps in an upcoming edition of the core Delta Green book. * If I got any of that wrong, others will certainly correct it. Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ -----Original Message----- Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on the list knew if the D20 Call of Cthulhu game that is going to be released soon will have information about running the game in a more modern setting (such as the one described in Delta Green). _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Randell.Wolff@kctcs.net Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 1:26 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green Thanks for the info! Sounds interesting. Now for another question. I'm thinking about starting up my old Delta Green campaign. (It's been about six months since we've played.) With the current state of affairs in the world (terrorist attacks, war in Afghanistan), I'm not sure how to go about a campaign involving government agents. Should I incorporate the attacks and war into the storyline somehow, or would that be in bad taste (as I fear it would be). Should I just leave it alone? Ignore that it happened? I'd appreciate your suggestions. Randell Wolff -----Original Message----- From: Shane Ivey [mailto:shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 1:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green You just missed the latest D20 thread by a couple of days. To sum up: * Many people are curious about the d20 adaptation. * The scuttlebutt is they'll place everyone in the same "Investigator" character class so you don't have to worry about any "I'm a triple-classed Doctor-Accountant-Tribal Fisherman" wonkiness. And I think I heard that they're ditching level-based hit points (personally I would be happy with a Star Wars RPG-style "vitality points" variant instead, but even that may be too D&D-ish to fit the Cthulhu genre). I think the SAN system is being imported almost unchanged into d20, but that may have been me misreading someone else's report. * DG's John Tynes is involved in writing the d20 adaptation for Chaosium, so there will definitely be a Delta Green d20 variant, perhaps in an upcoming edition of the core Delta Green book. * If I got any of that wrong, others will certainly correct it. Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ -----Original Message----- Anyway, I was wondering if anyone on the list knew if the D20 Call of Cthulhu game that is going to be released soon will have information about running the game in a more modern setting (such as the one described in Delta Green). _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shannon [darklord@pophost.alaska.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 1:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green >You just missed the latest D20 thread by a couple of days. To sum up: > >* Many people are curious about the d20 adaptation. [SNIP] >Shane Ivey >Producer, RevolutionSF >http://www.revolutionsf.com/ >From a press release at w.shoggoth.net: Call of Cthulhu (d20) available for pre-release! Contributed by trollboy on Monday August 13, @ 01:56PM from the Lets-check-it-out-baby!! dept. This just in, the famous (or infamous) Call of Cthulhu (D20) rulebook is now available for pre-order from Amazon.com. Typically, Shoggoth.net boycotts this vender due to thier unscrupulous patenting policies, but as they are currently the only ones offering it and this is a major release, we're telling you about it here. The new book is available on pre-order and is set to come out March 2002. Credited with its creation are Monte Cook and John Tynes. John Tynes, as many of you already know, is editor-in-chief and graphic designer for Pagan Publishing. Pagan Publishing has brought us Delta Green, The Hills Rise Wild, and a host of both fiction and non-fiction books, the majority of which is licensed to them by Chaosium, makers of the Call of Cthulhu game we all know and love. John's experience includes working with Wizards of the Coast on their Magic: The Gathering game, Daedalus Entertainment, Steve Jackson Games, Acclaim Entertainment, and of course The Unspeakable Oath. Monte Cook, worked for TSR/Wotc and his company Malhavoc Press has brought us the the new D20 Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbook. As an old friend of Chaosium's he along with John will be doing their best to bring us a new system worthy of the tentacles adorning its pages. Good Luck Monte!! The coming of this book has brought much comotion to the Mythos Community, between the rumors of "levels" in the CoC D20 rules, a concept popular in other RPG's such as Dungeons and Dragons (where D20 was first introduced) but unsupported in previous versions of CoC due to the fact that the focus was more on role-playing and that investigators seldom live or stay sane long enough to gain any levels or experience. The fact that WotC (Wizards of the Coast), will be publishing this product, not Chaosium, also troubles a great many, including your beloved author, as the creator and maintainer of the RPG for the last 25 years, is passing the reigns onto a noticeably much younger upstart. Personal experience has taught me that when role playing Dungeons and Dragons, the focus is generally a tad more on rule mongering than actual role playing (we jokingly referred to it as "An accountants guide to the Dark Ages") and the CCG by WotC is really just a collection of rules and creative rule mongering.. thus the apprehension. However, the idea of having a gaming system compatible across all games as well as a "open source" gaming system intrigues many, once again the author included. The official D20 page is located here. The announcement from WotC is located here. Editors note: This article modified after posting due to comments by Simon Taylor. Thanks for keeping me on my toes Simon! xxxxxxxxxxxx shoggoth.net also have an interview with Tynes & Cooke re: CoC d20. I've gone ahead and pre-ordered one ... just to help out with the numbers -- I figured it couldn't hurt (and Amazon didn't ask for any money and said the order could be cancelled). I doubt I'll be concerned with the actual d20 system (though the insanity rules could be fun) since I'm going to be starting my campaign using a mix of Unknown Armies and some other purloined ideas. Hope that helps. Shannon _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/