From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Mclean [Shane.Mclean@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 2:36 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Hit Points and Guns in D20 CoC Hey all, On the off-chance they do the normal hit point system (unlikely, or those tentacled horrors become less intimidating), or create an alternative that doesn't work for you, I submit these links to an alternative set of rules on a site called The Sleeping Imperium. The setting doesn't do anyhting for me, but the Grim and Gritty Hit Point Rules and the Firearms rules are interesting. I intend to use the HP rules in a D20 Legend oft he Five Rings game, as they do dangerous rather well, and appear to work... Enough blathering and on with the links: http://www.sleepingimperium.rpghost.com/downloads/GrimNGrittyHitPointRules.p df http://www.sleepingimperium.rpghost.com/downloads/firearms.pdf Hope these are of interest. Take care, Shane _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Chris Womack [jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:05 PM To: deltagreen revolutionsf.com Subject: Current Events in Campaigns (was Re: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green) on 11/12/01 2:25 PM, Randell.Wolff@kctcs.net at Randell.Wolff@kctcs.net wrote: > [...] I'm thinking about starting up my old Delta Green > campaign. (It's been about six months since we've played.) With the > current state of affairs in the world (terrorist attacks, war in > Afghanistan), I'm not sure how to go about a campaign involving government > agents. Should I incorporate the attacks and war into the storyline > somehow, or would that be in bad taste (as I fear it would be). Should I > just leave it alone? Ignore that it happened? Okay, so I'm not actually involved in a campaign at present, but here's an argument in favor of somehow including recent events in a game, at least in the background. Last night I watched the season opener of the X-Files, and the thing that struck me (aside from a general distaste for how terminally lame the show has become) was the fact that *nowhere* was there the least mention of events of the past two months. Granted, the show was scripted and filmed long before, and hell, in the show's timeline it was even *set* before those events (picking up, as it did, a nebulous "48 hours later" from where last season left off), but nevertheless it just struck me as way wrong that a crew of FBI agents would have their collective knickers in a twist over any piddly little internal investigation when there are now officially bigger fish to fry. I just felt like all preexisting conspiracies were just sort of rendered lame and meaningless by recent events. I can't shake this notion that, for all the usual suspects we like to focus on in the DG-verse, the events of 9/11--and more importantly, all the boatloads of follow-up investigation work--must now be, if not an overriding priority, then at least this big hulking *thing* standing there in the background that won't go away and won't let you ignore it. Now, whether these events should be worked into your game as the signs and/or results of horrible Mythos activity is up to you, but at the very least it should stand in as a preoccupation for PC's. They've now got all this 9/11-related crap to wade through *on top of* their regular case load, weighing them down before they can even begin thinking about Mythos nasties. This would definitely be a bad time to be a DG agent. As if the Mythos weren't bad enough, everyday reality is now just as nasty, depressing, and SAN-blasting. The intelligence community has just had a whole new protracted war of at-best-questionable outcome dumped in their collective lap, and has been told "you get to be in the vanguard on this one." Now, if this war and the secret one that DG fights turn out to be the same war, well, that's bad. But even if they're not, it's *still* bad. The only thing worse than trying to save humanity in a futile struggle against unfathomable alien horror that I can think of is trying to save humanity in a futile struggle against unfathomable alien horror while humanity is hard at work trying to destroy itself from the inside out. Apologies for rambling; to get back to the question at hand, while I can't speak for every potential player, for my part even if it might be in bad taste to capitalize on current events in a campaign, it's now to the point where it would be in worse taste to ignore them, as witnessed by my reaction to the season opener of the X-Files, which did just that. Okay, so I shut up now. Carry on. Chris Womack jcwomack@earthlink.net Keeper of the DGML (Ret'd.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:47 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: Current Events in Campaigns (was Re: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green) I like the idea of Agents unable to go after the Mythos because they're too bogged down with 9/11. If your players are agreeable (or even if they're not *snicker*) have them be Friendlies. Not law enforcement officers per say, but someone recruited by an active agent to deal with Really Bad Things (tm). In other words, Agents now become more like case officers. Any Friendly who survives might become more like an agent. This could come complete with fake id (so the friendlies have something to show the nice policeman when he notices the gauge under the trench), secret code words, etc. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Womack [mailto:jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 5:05 PM To: deltagreen revolutionsf.com Subject: Current Events in Campaigns (was Re: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green) I can't shake this notion that, for all the usual suspects we like to focus on in the DG-verse, the events of 9/11--and more importantly, all the boatloads of follow-up investigation work--must now be, if not an overriding priority, then at least this big hulking *thing* standing there in the background that won't go away and won't let you ignore it. They've now got all this 9/11-related crap to wade through *on top of* their regular case load, weighing them down before they can even begin thinking about Mythos nasties. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Stevens Dustin [zoom2baba@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:54 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Current Events in Campaigns (was Re: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green) --- Chris Womack wrote: > Apologies for rambling; to get back to the question > at hand, while I can't > speak for every potential player, for my part even > if it might be in bad > taste to capitalize on current events in a campaign, > it's now to the point > where it would be in worse taste to ignore them, as > witnessed by my reaction > to the season opener of the X-Files, which did just > that. I've had a campaign idea bumping around my head for about a year now due to the intifada that I wanted to play but never fully fleshed out. Thanks to the events on 9/11 its rendered my campaign fairly impotent, and also needing to be reworked in a bad way. It was to involve Jerusalem, the Templars, the Assassins, the Holy Grail, the Mossad, the Karotechia, and the Palestinians. After reading The Coming Anarchy by Richard Kaplan, I was gonna move the climax of the action into Africa with a nod toward unstable tribal countries like Somalia or Sierra Leone. But, now, thanks to Osama I'm practically back at square one. Thanks, jerk. What makes it worse is that 9/11 makes a lot of scenarios anti-climatic. The next step is the nuclear bomb (or the unleash of Azathoth). And now that has become much closer to reality, I don't know if I have the stomach to roleplay what could be THE future catastrophe within the next 20 years. The easiest way to address current actions, without having to tread on the grave of thousands, is to now run that Vietnam SEALS DG game everyone's been thinking of, only switch it to Afghanistan (especially during the winter, when major fighting is likely to lull). I'm sure there's plenty of hidden valleys, caves, cultists, and GOOs in the Hindu Kush Mountains. Plateau of Leng or Tsang, anyone? Steve Dustin zoom2baba@yahoo.com ===== _______________________________________________________ Ancient Evil: A Call of Cthulhu Website http://www.ancientevil.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 6:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Antarctic station silenced by fires http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/2001/11/13/FFXAA944XTC.html A series of fires caused loss of communications with Australia's Antarctic Station. DG raid perhaps? Something more nefarious? All eaten and replaced by shoggoths? "Ever-y one is fine. Please send us more of this mus-tard substance." -- Tim Betz _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:21 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Current Events in Campaigns (was Re: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green) In a message dated 11.13.2001 6+54+39 AM, zoom2baba@yahoo.com writes: << It was to involve Jerusalem, the Templars, the Assassins, the Holy Grail, the Mossad, the Karotechia, and the Palestinians. >> I'm workin on something similar also. A good book on the Templars is, well, "The Templars" by Piers Paul Read. << After reading The Coming Anarchy by Richard Kaplan, I was gonna move the climax of the action into Africa with a nod toward unstable tribal countries like Somalia or Sierra Leone. >> I gave the book to my roommate when he couldn't come up with a topic for an essay for his African politics class. His professor blasted both the book and the author, calling it -- a direct quote -- "drivel." He attributed this to the fact that Kaplan was a mere journalist and was not qualified to make the kinds of "broad" conclusions he did. I thought that, as a journalist (ideally an impartial observer), he was pretty objective. But then again, professors rule my world right now. I dunno, for what it counts (and it doesn't), I thought the book was pretty good... By the way, ever thought of using the Kenya chapter of Masks of Nyarlathotep as the basis for an African game? Or how 'bout the DG op in the Congo (Operation KURTZ)? --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:28 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: Current Events in Campaigns (was Re: [DG] D20 CoC and Delta Green) ----- Original Message ----- From: > > << After reading The Coming Anarchy by > Richard Kaplan, > > I gave the book to my roommate when he couldn't come up with a topic for an > essay for his African politics class. His professor blasted both the book and > the author, calling it -- a direct quote -- "drivel Just for listmembers' info there are some extracts at http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/foreign/anarchy.htm Why do you think this professor disliked the book? Is he a pinko who doesn't like seeing Africa dissed? or what? I sense a backstory here. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:31 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote Shoulda posed it with the last, sorry, The Glove Cleaner The cities of West Africa at night are some of the unsafest places in the world. Streets are unlit; the police often lack gasoline for their vehicles; armed burglars, carjackers, and muggers proliferate. "The government in Sierra Leone has no writ after dark," says a foreign resident, shrugging. When I was in the capital, Freetown, last September, eight men armed with AK-47s broke into the house of an American man. They tied him up and stole everything of value. Forget Miami: direct flights between the United States and the Murtala Muhammed Airport, in neighboring Nigeria's largest city, Lagos, have been suspended by order of the U.S. Secretary of Transportation because of ineffective security at the terminal and its environs. A State Department report cited the airport for "extortion by law-enforcement and immigration officials." This is one of the few times that the U.S. government has embargoed a foreign airport for reasons that are linked purely to crime. In Abidjan, effectively the capital of the Cote d'Ivoire, or Ivory Coast, restaurants have stick- and gun-wielding guards who walk you the fifteen feet or so between your car and the entrance, giving you an eerie taste of what American cities might be like in the future. An Italian ambassador was killed by gunfire when robbers invaded an Abidjan restaurant. The family of the Nigerian ambassador was tied up and robbed at gunpoint in the ambassador's residence. After university students in the Ivory Coast caught bandits who had been plaguing their dorms, they executed them by hanging tires around their necks and setting the tires on fire. In one instance Ivorian policemen stood by and watched the "necklacings," afraid to intervene. Each time I went to the Abidjan bus terminal, groups of young men with restless, scanning eyes surrounded my taxi, putting their hands all over the windows, demanding "tips" for carrying my luggage even though I had only a rucksack. In cities in six West African countries I saw similar young men everywhere--hordes of them. They were like loose molecules in a very unstable social fluid, a fluid that was clearly on the verge of igniting. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:11 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote At 01:31 AM 11/13/2001 +0000, Andy Robertson wrote: > >In Abidjan, effectively the capital of the Cote d'Ivoire, >or Ivory Coast, restaurants have stick- and gun-wielding guards who walk you >the fifteen feet or so between your car and the entrance, giving you an >eerie taste of what American cities might be like in the future. Now this part is "drivel". The crime rate in the United States has been dropping steadily, to the lowest rates it has been since the FBI started tracking crimes effectively in the 1960's. And the data before then is flaky at best. We often talk about how safe and crimeless it was in the '50s, but it might very well be that the current era is as crime-free as it has ever been in the United States. Is this because we have had a good economy and now the crime rate will skyrocket under this new recession? Maybe. Could the rate jump when all those criminals that were locked up under heavy sentences during the '90s are now released because their sentences are up? Maybe. Will the welfare reform of the past administration and the cuts in social spending from the current administration criminalize the ever-growing underclass in American society and the rate goes up again? Maybe. But all "maybes" aside, the crime rate in the United States has never been better, except of course on television sets. As part of a polisci paper on this, I recorded twenty-four hours of TV and fast-forwarded through the tapes marking down all the violent acts committed on-screen *outside* of news reports and "reality" programming. If we had as much crime that is televised nationally, America would be swimming in murders, rapes, and robberies. Which is exactly what every voter believes, and why crime is either the number one issue or the number two after the economy. Left-wing media, my ass. Goebbels couldn't have done half the job Hollywood has done electing hang-em-all conservatives, excusing police brutality, feeding the prison industry, and demonizing the ACLU. That said, West Africa is one seriously effed-up place. It ain't all the white man's fault but isn't all "jungle savagery" either. Enough people may have died in the Congo already to stain this era almost as bad as the Holocaust did our grandfathers. ObDG: Don't need the New World Order if there isn't a Scare to be Ordered against. Paranoia is the midwife of tyranny. And tyranny will keep the cattle in line till the feast begins. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] RE: Current Events First, hello, I'm new, and I apologize if this ground has been covered in the past two months. I've been thinking of Mythos explanations for the past two months, more as an intellectual exercise, because I think the wound is still to raw to actually go there. Touchy subject, matter of taste, and all that. Anyway, the basics: We know there are lost cities hidden under the sands. We also know that various factions of Afghanis use an ancient system of tunnels and caves as their base of operations. Who found what down there? What if "al Qaeda" refers to that specific place? We know that the Islamic fundementalists aren't practicing Islam as actually taught by the prophet Mohammed. The Koran advocates everyone, including women, getting an education. Mohammed worked for a woman (later his wife) and his daughter was a political leader. So we can assume that any Goddess cults are going to be opposed to this. We know that the hijackers operating in America weren't exactly Islamic fundementalists. They were heavilty into booze and whores, and Mohammed Attar was reportedly a homosexual. They were cultists pretending to be Islamic fundies. The WTC makes one hell of a sacrifice. Throw in all of the 11s, the mystical significance of twins, etc. Don't forget that "face of satan" pic in the smoke pouring from the burning building. The Pentagon was the obvious target, the White House was never the target. Everyone knows the Pentagon was constructed as a giant containment circle to imprison... what? Break the circle, and unleash... who? I think we all know. Delta Green agents certainly would have their hands full. How many mundane terrorist plots have been foiled by the FBI, CIA and "normal" law enforcement; imagine the Mythos ploys being foiled daily, around the globe, by DG. And look at all the false leads -- hunting down terrorists who only want to release chemical or biological weapons with no actual mythos-based ulterior motive. Those are blind alleys for DG agents, a waste of time and resources, but, you never know ,one of those terrorist cells might actually BE a cultist cell. Berin Kinsman unclebear.com _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nerva Vels [nerva.ramos@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:39 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ah, fuck... Far too easy to use this incident as a rallying cry for any of the major 'issues' bandied about today. 'twas nothing but poor maintenance on an already suspect vehicle (the Airbus) that cost the lives of innocents. I'm not afraid of terrorism. I'm not afraid of crime. I'm afraid of the hapless carelessness and inattentiveness to detail, nay, the inability for people to pride themselves in doing a good job, no matter what, that seems to be pervasive. The person who goes through their workday without taking pleasure in REALLY working frightens me; so much room for mishap and mayhem.... I hate knowing so many people when something like this happens; yes, people I know died. Part and parcel of the damaging effects of the Endtimes: the world is smaller, you know more people in it, the tragedies get closer... can make a body paranoid, dagnabit. nana nervy disturbed P.S. Just WHAT were those odds on the plane falling in that SMALL strip of land???? Guess better than on the bridge not too far from there..... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Explosive Food Parcels On 10 November 2001, Glove Cleaner "Andy Robertson" wrote: >http://www.emperors-clothes.com/ > >page down a bit, make your choice of the two yellow parcels > >I believe, I really do believe, that it's stupidity, not malice, but it's >geting harder to keep the faih. Stupidity, compounded by compartmentalization. You get some of this in the government (or any big organization), partly due to security and turf considerations, and partially due to the sheer size of the establishment and the amount of information handled. One official, in one department, decided that the food packages should be yellow. (They had to be some color, and yellow shows up against natural terrain and flora better than most other colors except possibly International Orange... better than the dark OD the military uses on the MREs they issue to the troops.) Meanwhile, another official, in another department, decided to have the cluster bomblets painted yellow, for whatever reason. (Possibly so that unexploded ones could be identified and dealt with once friendly forces had secured an area...) The two officials, of course, did not communicate with one another -- it was not in their job descriptions! (One was handling rations, another munitions -- ordinarily, why would they exchange memos?) I'm reluctant to attribute to deliberate malice something that can be so easily explained by human foolishness... And, by the way, someone finally pointed this problem out to the second of these bureaucrats (or perhaps his supervisor), and, starting last week, the food packages are now using _green_, while the bomblets remain yellow! (Of course, there are still numerous rations in yellow packages that will need to be repackaged, or distributed to places where no bombs fell... and it won't do a thing for those already on the ground in country... But it's a step in the right direction!) The late SF author and editor John Campbell once said (shortly after the Big NY Blackout) that mistakes fall into three categories: Cat 1: The Pure Goof. As long as we're not omniscent, there are things we are not going to know, until something brings them to our attention, generally in an embarrassing way. Cat 2: A Failure to Put It Together. This is when you have all of the information to do it right, but -- for whatever reason, you don't put it together in the proper manner. Cat 3: SEP. You have the information. You have put it together, and you realize the relationship between the various items of data. And you decide it is Someone Else's Problem, and don't do anything about it. In Campbell's opinion, Category 1 and 2 Mistakes warranted investigation, so that a way could be found to avoid repeating them. ("Always a new mistake...") Category 3, however, not only warranted investigation, but assignment of the blame to those responsible. In my opinion, the matter of the food packages and the cluster munitions was a Category 2 mistake. Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Yossi Gurvitz [ygurvitz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 2:22 PM To: Delta Green Subject: [DG] Pretty basic, but... Something that has been bothering me lately: When you call Yog-Sothoth, why does he come? Why does a deity deigns to reply to a summoning? What do puny humans have to offer to a cosmic being? Yours, Yossi _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 10:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Pretty basic, but... At 10:22 PM 11/12/2001 +0200, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: > When you call Yog-Sothoth, why does he come? Why does a deity deigns >to reply to a summoning? What do puny humans have to offer to a >cosmic being? My understanding is that Yog-Sothoth is not a cosmic being, but the cosmos itself. It is the universe revealing its face. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:34 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Pretty basic, but... On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Gil Trevizo wrote: > At 10:22 PM 11/12/2001 +0200, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: > > When you call Yog-Sothoth, why does he come? Why does a deity deigns > >to reply to a summoning? What do puny humans have to offer to a > >cosmic being? > > My understanding is that Yog-Sothoth is not a cosmic being, but the cosmos > itself. It is the universe revealing its face. > Maybe if we are cosmic bugs, then the summoning ritual is the equivilent of a cosmic insect bite, or buzzing, and Soggy turning up, or Azathoth renting holes in space to spew nuclear fire about the place is their way of swatting at us. If a fly is annoying you, you keep trying to hit it, 'til you get it or it goes away right? Or maybe, as my housemate's theory goes, the Earth is a Giant bowl of M&Ms and we are the snack food in the giant cosmic party. Of course this probably means that all the GOO are stoned. Except Cthulhu, who has been locked in his room by his brother... Then again, maybe, given as though they're all pretty much mindless (except Narly) they might not have a very long memory, and so can't remember that not much happened last time they showed up. Which of course makes them cosmic goldfish. Maybe they can't not come. You speak the magic words and wave the magic widget and the fundamental, as yet not understood, laws of the universe bring the deity to you. Explains why they wreck the joint every time they show up. Maybe they are alien and unknowable and therefore have reasons that are alien and unknowable. . Or maybe they're just in it for the virgins... -- Tim Betz wondering who supplies the fish flakes... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:36 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Pretty basic, but... >From: Yossi Gurvitz > When you call Yog-Sothoth, why does he come? Why does a deity deigns >to reply to a summoning? What do puny humans have to offer to a >cosmic being? > > Yours, > Yossi > I'd agree with Gil: when speaking about summoning an Outer God, it's not really about entity A showing up from Dimension Z, but instead, the summoning ritual makes Y-S visible for mortal eyes/makes Y-S take a visible form , when normally he is in a form, which in fact is no form but a cosmic principle. He is the principle known as space, room etc. So, Y-S appearing is a bit like Allah, Yahwe or Elvis making an appearance in holy texts. They can have a visible form though they are everything. Jussi M "Memes don't exist. Go tell your friends." P.S. Sorry 'bout the Elvis part. Got carried away. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Sylvain Clément [sylvain.clement@wanadoo.fr] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:34 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Pretty basic, but... From: "Yossi Gurvitz" > When you call Yog-Sothoth, why does he come? Why does a deity deigns > to reply to a summoning? What do puny humans have to offer to a > cosmic being? In my humble opinion, it is all, mainly, a question of mind-reality interface. We puny mortals (including sorcerers) may have the means to summon an extremely tiny fraction of such an all-encompassing cosmic power, but hyper-geometry (or medieval metaphysics, or whichever name you choose) is such an otherworldly thing to us that our brains have to shroud its effects in a kind of animist veil. Yog-Sothoth, the very name or the globular thingy, could be viewed as an icon, the kind of representation of such a raw, real power that our mind can handle. We have to name the unnamable if we are to use it despite our limited comprehension, by circumventing a bit of the unknowability of such an impersonal and fundamental power. This way, our multi-layered mind can handle the "revelation interface" called Umr-At-Tawil with minimal resources, in order to grasp as much as possible of its relevant teaching/contents. With the disastrous effects we know ... SC _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of philip.ward@yestelevision.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 5:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Hit Points and Guns in D20 CoC > Enough blathering and on with the links: > > http://www.sleepingimperium.rpghost.com/downloads/GrimNGrittyHitPointRules.p df > >http://www.sleepingimperium.rpghost.com/downloads/firearms.pdf > Funnily enough, I too was going to post these links... Until the real thing comes out and I can _fool_ my playesr into another DG game, I'm using the sleeping imperium rules, some of this: http://www.geocities.com/rpcore/CoD/index.html and my own additions.. ********************************************************************** This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or privileged information and should not be read, copied or otherwise used or disseminated by any unauthorised person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Yes Television (Europe) Ltd . If you are not the named recipient, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail from your system. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:07 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Elvis eats boats ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jussi Marttila" > P.S. Sorry 'bout the Elvis part. Got carried away. You can never be too carried away by the power of Elvis. Or in the words of Mojo Nixon: Elvis Is Everywhere When I look out into your eyes out there, When I look out into your faces, You know what I see? I see a little bit of Elvis In each and every one of you out there. Lemme tell ya... Weeeeeeeeeellllllll... Elvis is everywhere Elvis is everything Elvis is everybody Elvis is still the king Man o man What I want you to see Is that the big E's Inside of you and me Elvis is everywhere, man! He's in everything. He's in everybody... Elvis is in your jeans. He's in your cheesburgers Elvis is in Nutty Buddies! Elvis is in your mom! He's in everybody. He's in the young, the old, the fat, the skinny, the white, the black the brown and the blue people got Elvis in 'em too Elvis is in everybody out there. Everybody's got Elvis in them! Everybody except one person that is... Yeah, one person! The evil opposite of Elvis. The Anti-Elvis Anti-Elvis got no Elvis in 'em, lemme tell ya. Michael J. Fox has no Elvis in him. And Elvis is in Joan Rivers but he's trying to get out, man! He's trying to get out! Listen up Joanie Baby! Elvis is everywhere Elvis is everything Elvis is everybody Elvis is still the king Man o man What I want you to see Is that the big E's Inside of you and me Man, there's a lot of unexplained phenomenon out there in the world. Lot of things people say What the heck's going on? Let me tell ya! Who built the pyramids? ELVIS! Who built Stonehenge? ELVIS! Yeah, man you see guys walking down the street pushing shopping carts and you think they're talking to allah, they're talking to themself. Man, no they're talking to ELVIS! ELVIS! ELVIS! You know whats going on in that Bermuda Triangle? Down in the Bermuda Traingle Elvis eats boats. Elvis needs boats. Elvis Elvis Elvis Elvis Elvis Elvis Elvis needs boats. Aahh! The Sailing Elvis! Captain Elvis! Commodore Elvis it is. Yeah man, you know people from outer space, people from outer space they come up to me. They don't look like Doctor Spock. They don't look like Klingons, all that Star Trek jive. They look like Elvis. ELVIS! Everybody in outer space looks like Elvis. Cause Elvis is a perfect being. We are all moving in perfect peace and harmony towards Elvisness Soon all will become Elvis. Everything everywhere will be Elvis. Why do you think they call it evolution anyway? It's really Elvislution! Elvislution! Elvis is everywhere Elvis is everything Elvis is everybody Elvis is still the king Man o man What I want you to see Is that the big E's Inside of you and me That's right ladies and gentlemen, The time has come! Time has come to talk To that little bit of Elvis inside of you. Talk to it! Call it up! Say "Elvis, heal me!" "Save me, Elvis!" "Make me be born again in the perfect Elvis light" That's right! You've got that Elvis inside of ya and he's talkin to ya He says he wants you to sing! Everybody's got to sing like the king! Like the king Get that leg going now Get your lip too. Not no fool Billy Idol lip either Everybody! Yeah, we're rockin now! Elvis is with us. He's with us and he's speaking to us. He says "Peoples!" "Peoples!" "Everybody!" "Everybody got to sing!" Elvis is everywhere Elvis is everything Elvis is everybody Elvis is still the king Man o man What I want you to see Is that the big E's Inside of you and me Elvis is everywhere Elvis is everything Elvis is everybody Elvis is still the king Man o man What I want you to see Is that the big E's Inside of you and me Elvis! Mark McFadden Thangyewverruhmush The King has left the building! The King has left the building! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bomias1@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote In a message dated 11/12/01 9:12:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, furrylogic@mindspring.com writes: << Paranoia is the midwife of tyranny. >> Is that a quote or is that a furrylogic original. It's pretty damn good. I think I'll have to use it. The Thug Whisperer "Back off Man! I'm a scientist." ------- Peter Venkman _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Lawyer\client confidentiality NY Times "Legal experts differ sharply on the new Justice Department policy of monitoring communications between people the government says have been involved in terrorism and their lawyers." Note all of the weasel phrases in that statement alone. "People the government *says* have *been involved* in terrorism and their lawyers." That might not seem like much, until you remember that people can lose their property or business because a tenant or customer dealt drugs unbeknownst to the (former) owner. Base on an anonymous tip that gets to remain anonymous and cannot be confronted in court. If there was a trial, but there wasn't. Credit cards, bank accounts, all assets can be frozen, businesses can be padlocked then sold at auction without any trial because no crime was committed by the person being punished. It's all administrative stuff. The IRS, after all, is not a law enforcement agency. They answer to a higher power. Nothing to see here, everyone go home. And all of that was happening before 9/11. Now they've got "terrorism" as the Bogey Man. The harm that could be caused by a hypothetical terrorist communicating to his cell through his lawyer is nothing, NOTHING, compared to the harm caused by forgetting for the sake of convenience that everyone, EVERYONE, is innocent until proven guilty. Not "should be treated as if" but *is*. This is fundamental. Like "all men are created equal" it might not be literally true, but we must treat it as truth or the whole structure collapses like a house of cards. "But the Justice Department measure also won support from some legal experts and former prosecutors who said it was carefully designed to protect the public while impinging as little as possible on the rights of people to confer with their lawyers." What is happening is that a type of crime is being singled out as so heinous that it must be separated from common law. It's happened already with the drug laws, with mandatory sentencing for dealing and asset forfeiture for anyone peripherally involved. What happened is an arbitrary amount became de facto evidence of *intent* to deal. Mandatory life sentence for anyone unwise enough to try to get a volume discount on stuff for personal use. BTW, we're not talking about bales or pallet loads here, we're talking about quantities over an ounce in most cases. The only thing that has to be proven is that it was in their possession, the amount is "proof" of *intent* to deal. Did he buy it from someone in the back of your bar? From someone in your apartment building? Rental property? Kiss it all goodbye until YOU prove that you are innocent. "Irwin H. Schwartz, a Seattle lawyer and president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said the measure would most likely be challenged in court. "We call ourselves a nation of laws," Mr. Schwartz said, "and the test of a nation of laws is whether it adheres to them in times of stress."" Or as I like to say, "You are only as good as you are acting *right now*." "Some critics said they were most troubled by the fact that the policy permits officials to monitor communications without getting prior approval from a judge." When you consider that most Federal warrants can be obtained in one day (it's a pathetic agency that doesn't have a roster of tame judges), there doesn't seem to be much excuse for wanting to avoid a review by a presumably cooler head. That is, if everything is kosher. "George Rutherglen, a legal ethics specialist at the University of Virginia, said the monitoring was unnecessary because "there are ways to get this information now." Agents could get a court-approved wiretap, he said, if they had probable cause to believe that a lawyer was involved in furthering a crime." See what I mean? ""It gives the government significant justification for conduct that in other circumstances might not be totally in accordance with longstanding practices," Mr. Obermaier said. "Sept. 11 changed a whole lot."" So did the Reichstag fire. Mark McFadden ObDG: short of shooting people, everything your agents do will soon be part of their day job. Just remember, every cult is now a terrorist cell and every behavior is now suspected terrorist activity. Drop a dime on Club Apocalypse, the results should prove interesting. That swarthy Alzis fella fits the profile. The sub-basements will make good practice for Afghanistan. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:48 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] This cost me a few points of SAN http://www.bme.freeq.com/people/addsub/index.html _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote The book is a very effective piece, very well written, but on rereading one indeed becomes aware that it is a writerly work, a construction . . . I was interested in whether it did indeed represent the conditions in west Africa, or whether here was much exaggeration there. More interesting, from a DG point of view, is the idea that our current society is irreversably bound in that direction for some deepseated internal reason. I cannot agree with you **entirely** about present crime rates: I know they have fallen enormously since the 1980's, but the relevant point is that the US now has about one percent of its population behind bars, whearas in the 1950's the proportion was far lower. Arguably there is an underlying trend towards more and more violence that has only been hindered, perhaps temporarily, by some very expensive and very in-your-face policing. Arguably. I don't have a real-world axe to grind here, not because I don't have opinions, but because I am not sure enough about them to be dogmatic. However I will observe that the salient point about the societies involved in "The Coming anarchy" is that they are very poor **and rapidly and continuously getting poorer**. I can well believe that if we faced a continuous 2% per annum drop in living standards (as the West Africans have) things would get very hairy very fast indeed. The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" > Now this part is "drivel". The crime rate in the United States has been > dropping steadily, to the lowest rates it has been since the FBI started > tracking crimes effectively in the 1960's. And the data before then is > flaky at best. We often talk about how safe and crimeless it was in the > '50s, but it might very well be that the current era is as crime-free as it > has ever been in the United States. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nerva Vels [nerva.ramos@verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] This cost me a few points of SAN more SAN loss.. this remind you of anything? Fate Catches up with Money Whiz who missed 9/11 http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-11-13/News_and_Views/City_Beat/a-131937.asp nana nervy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of SGlancy12@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] This cost me a few points of SAN Limb swapping! If that's not a photoshop/afterefffects wank job, then somebody better get the fucking dynamite. A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 2:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote At 06:17 PM 11/13/2001 +0000, Andy Robertson wrote: >I cannot agree with you **entirely** about present crime rates: I know they >have fallen enormously since the 1980's, but the relevant point is that the >US now has about one percent of its population behind bars, whearas in the >1950's the proportion was far lower. > >Arguably there is an underlying trend towards more and more violence that >has only been hindered, perhaps temporarily, by some very expensive and very >in-your-face policing. I do believe that the crime rate will worsen as the economy continues to go south and those who were locked up in the '90s will be released when their sentences are finished. It's also not gonna help if the new police-state mentality in law enforcement overrides the very good changes towards community policiing that were taken in the '90s, and/or if it blocks the very painful but necessary reforms due to revelations of police brutality. It's hard to weed out those in the NYPD that empty magazines into unarmed suspects and shove towel handles into perp's rectums while hailing the very real heroes in the same department - it can be done, I just don't think our society has the complexity to do that. What I see is an ever-widening of the gap between those in power and those outside. Just the thing for creating a regime to keep the barbarians outside the gates, or to foment the barbarians to storm the gates. The Endtimes will probably result from a mix of both. >Arguably. I don't have a real-world axe to grind here, not because I don't >have opinions, but because I am not sure enough about them to be dogmatic. Though I do believe the crime rate will worsen, I also have a great aversion to the notion that crime is a problem now. When the rates are so low, I don't understand how we can put crime within the top five issues, much less as number one. Too many bad politicians of both stripes have been elected on tough-on-crime platforms. It's government by paranoia. >However I will observe that the salient point about the societies involved >in "The Coming anarchy" is that they are very poor **and rapidly and >continuously getting poorer**. I feel this is much more an global affair than one on our home streets. Through colonialism then neo-colonialism then counterinsurgency then the IMF and global economy and NAFTA and so on - we in the First World have ghettoized the Third World. It's only a hop-skip-and-a-jump between a ghetto and a concentration camp. There will be resistance, but it doesn't really matter if the violence comes from the rioters or the police - when a "barbarian at the gates" mentality becomes law, life isn't worth much on either side of the gates, and the Endtimes are nigh. Gil p.s. Whisperer, the quote was mine. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Stevens Dustin [zoom2baba@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:15 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote --- Andy Robertson wrote: > > The book is a very effective piece, very well > written, but on rereading one > indeed becomes aware that it is a writerly work, a > construction . . . I > was interested in whether it did indeed represent > the conditions in west > Africa, or whether here was much exaggeration there. > What caught my attention was the dramatic-ness of third world chaos. >From a roleplaying perspective being in a country that is suffering a spectacular cultural implosion, like Sierra Leone's night of the hand-chopping, could be an unbelievably tense night of gaming. I was considering running my Templar/Nazi/Palestine campaign with a climax in a fictional African country, and suddenly having the PCs being caught up in the middle. Just the thought of the incident is horrifying enough, can you imagine being there? > I cannot agree with you **entirely** about present > crime rates: I know they > have fallen enormously since the 1980's, but the > relevant point is that the > US now has about one percent of its population > behind bars, whearas in the > 1950's the proportion was far lower. > I'm under the impression the rising prison population can be attributed to our Drug War. > Arguably there is an underlying trend towards more > and more violence that > has only been hindered, perhaps temporarily, by some > very expensive and very > in-your-face policing. > > Arguably. I don't have a real-world axe to grind > here, not because I don't > have opinions, but because I am not sure enough > about them to be dogmatic. > > However I will observe that the salient point about > the societies involved > in "The Coming anarchy" is that they are very poor > **and rapidly and > continuously getting poorer**. I walked away with a perception that it wasn't so much poor-ness, but that certain third world nations were culturally more likely to devolve into tribal chaos, then others. The haves and the have-nots are certainly an issue, but in America, we have suitable distractions (media: TV, music, roleplaying) to keep us pre-occupied so we don't notice the erosion of our rights and power. My current theory is that we won't even know we don't have a democracy when its gone. > > I can well believe that if we faced a continuous 2% > per annum drop in living > standards (as the West Africans have) things would > get very hairy very fast > indeed. > Indeed it would. But I think the power-brokers know this. They're moving at snail's pace, and keeping it out of the headlines. We're a frog slowly being heated in a saucepan. Steve Dustin zoom2baba@yahoo.com ===== _______________________________________________________ Ancient Evil: A Call of Cthulhu Website http://www.ancientevil.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] This cost me a few points of SAN on 11/13/01 3:43 PM, SGlancy12@aol.com at SGlancy12@aol.com wrote: > Limb swapping! > > If that's not a photoshop/afterefffects wank job, then somebody better get > the fucking dynamite. I'm of the mind that it's a hoax, albeit a very well thought out one. The theoretical aspects of transplantation between identical twins is one nice touch. It is _theoretically_ possible to do such radical surgery with little in the way of immunological complications, but in practice I'm not convinced that it would be as smooth as they state. As Adam mentions, creative photoshop would be able to produce a reasonable mock up of such effects (a lot more easily, cheaply and less permanently as well... especially considering what proven involvement in this venture would do the "practitioner's" medical license). But the real giveaway, IMHO, is the small footnote at the bottom: "This interview posted April 1, 1999". Highly, suspect. Graeme -- graemep@immag.mcg.edu _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stevens Dustin" > From a roleplaying perspective being in a country that > is suffering a spectacular cultural implosion, like > Sierra Leone's night of the hand-chopping, could be an > unbelievably tense night of gaming. Yeah. But even more so if it was made believable that it was happening in *this* country - your own country - not some foreign land. And that things were going to stay that way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" > > What I see is an ever-widening of the gap between those in power and those outside. Just the thing for creating a regime to keep the barbarians outside the gates, or to foment the barbarians to storm the gates. The > Endtimes will probably result from a mix of both. > If we are talking real world here - I do believe that there is a good chance that the world economy is in serious (not fatal) longterm trouble, because the era of very cheap oil is over. So we might be facing that 2% a year decline, at least until we make some major adjustments. And this will shake things up. While I don't anticipate anything like Sierra Leone in the short term, I do think that things will get rougher (as indeed they already have, arguably). The perhaps slightly cheerful thing about this is that people *can* react extremely well to privation. In fact we have such an easy time of it materially right now that there is a lot of slack that might be taken up. A poorer nation might even be more compassionate, just and peaceful. But that's in the Real World. Speaking Delta Green . . . One plausable near future scenario is that resource and energy depletion could lead to really severe economic and social problems, and a population "crash" where the worldwide population drops several-fold in a few decades. If you want a really OTT take on this you might check out .dieoff.org - there is a lot of information there that can be "mined" - but I hasten to add I don't credit the site, except as a source for ideas. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] This cost me a few points of SAN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Price" > I'm of the mind that it's a hoax, albeit a very well thought out one. The > theoretical aspects of transplantation between identical twins is one nice > touch. It is _theoretically_ possible to do such radical surgery with little > in the way of immunological complications, but in practice I'm not convinced > that it would be as smooth as they state. I could sort of conceive of a limb being attached without rejection between identical twins, but I had trouble with the picture and some other thoughts. How was the bone grafted to the rest of the skeleton? Even if arteries of the limb could be grafted to to some near the pectoral or under the armpit (which it didn't show) I have trouble believing sufficient bloodflow would be available to keep the limb healthy. It would almost certainly atrophy instead of being the buff specimen shown. Without a connection to the host skeleton we're looking at several pounds of flesh hanging from sutures and staples.He certainly wouldn't be able to pose as shown. Photoshop or way bitchin' SFX makeup. > But the real giveaway, IMHO, is the small footnote at the bottom: > "This interview posted April 1, 1999". Doh! That pretty much clinches it. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: "The Coming Anarchy" - quote Cheers. The Glove Cleaner is slipping. After all, "All I Ever Needed To Know I Learned from the Pulps" >More interesting, from a DG point of view, is the idea that our current >society is irreversably bound in that direction for some deepseated internal >reason. "Barbarism is the natural state of mankind. Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always ultimately triumph. of man." Robert E. Howard, Beyond the Black River, in Weird Tales, May/June 1935. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Beyond the Po River Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 5:18 PM To: DGML Subject: [DG] SF Workshop Lexicon Bruce Sterling has sent us the latest version of his famous Workshop Lexicon. Many of you will be old hats with this document, but it's great fun for writers either way: http://www.revolutionsf.com/index.html Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 5:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Delta Green: Barbarians or Gatekeepers? At 11:51 PM 11/13/2001 +0100, Davide Mana wrote: >"Barbarism is the natural state of mankind. Civilization is unnatural. It >is a whim of circumstance. And barbarism must always ultimately >triumph. of man." >Robert E. Howard, Beyond the Black River, in Weird Tales, May/June 1935. Now where in all this does Delta Green fit? Obviously, MJ-12 are gatekeepers, propping up and fostering an authoritarian New World Order that will give them greater powers and opportunities to carry out their exploitation of the Mythos. Does that make Delta Green the barbarians, creating disorder from within the system as an illegal conspiracy, sponsoring distrust and paranoia that (however justified) will still leave us all divided against the final struggle of the Endtimes, revelling in the bloodthirst of crusaders no matter how noble their intentions when the killing began? Until or unless OUR DARKEST HOUR fills in the blanks, modern Delta Green seems borne of Reggie Fairfield and Joe Camp. Fairfield seems pretty much a lock for the REH type - kill-em-all-let-Crom-sort-em-out, virtuous as a Cowboy but slightly fascist nonetheless, and seeming to live more for the blood of the struggle than whatever "good" it does. Camp is more like Lovecraft in his Randolph Carter guise (and for his wide social network yet outward appearance of complete loneliness). Camp/Carter is more pragmatic than Fairfield/REH but pragmatism in the face of the Mythos is simply prolonging the inevitable. Even after Camp's reforms, how many DG ops begin with the pragmatism of Camp but end in the hollow violence of Fairfield? MJ-12, the Karotechia, PISCES - all exist to serve the Mythos in some way. Any such organization that attempts to deal with the Mythos and serve it somehow never amounts to more than a joke (ie. GRU SV-8). DG has had too much success against the Mythos to not wonder if it serves some secret purpose as well. If MJ-12 hastens the Endtimes as gatekeepers fostering or forcing up the evil within man, to what end do the barbarians of DG? Who's running this cattle drive? It can be no coincidence that Nyarlathotep was in Innsmouth when the Marine Corps barbarians painted the town red and Delta Green was born. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 5:34 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Elvis eats boats On 13 November 2001, His Saurian Majesty "The Lizard King" said: > > P.S. Sorry 'bout the Elvis part. Got carried away. > > You can never be too carried away by the power of Elvis. Or, as E.L.V.I. Singer, Cardinal of the Church of Elvis (Orthodox Reformed) said, recently, speaking to Darth Bin Laden and Grand Moff Omar in a teleconference: "The power to topple big buildings, or to blow up entire planets, is nothing compared to the power of the Elvis!" In Robert Asprin's "Pfule's Company" series of novels (quite good, though I wish he would write the next book in the "Myth" series, so we could see Skeeve encounter Harry Potter and Cthulhu), Captain Jester's "Omega Company" is assigned a unit chaplain -- from the Church of Elvis! (His pin-on device, worn on the uniform collar, was a gold guitar...) And, on Babylon 5, there were the Three Elvises in the line at Customs! An acquaintance of mine thought that the "King" in the title of Tolkien's "Return of the King" was "obviously Elvis"... (He was a bit disappointed to find out this was not actually the case!) At Pennsic, the sheet-wall of one group's encampment proclaimed: "Elvis Lives!" A novel whose title I don't presently remember included a time-traveling train, based in a future Nashville which had become a sort of Vatican for the followers of Elvis! > The King has left the building! The King has left the building! And apparently even the Marine Corps Aviator flying the "liberated" alien ship for the strike on the ID4 Mother Ship was of the Church of Elvis, for he stated as he and his partner made their escape: "Elvis has left the building!" Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/