From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Children's Lit Arjun Roy wrote: > > Anybody heard of a new series called Dark Matter? I haven't gotten a chance > to > actually read one of the books (I think there are two or three out by now) > but one of my friends thinks it's /very/ good. And atypical, intelligent, > and > useful (slightly) for a DG campaign. That's my friend-- I haven't read them > yet. The Dark Matter series is based on the setting of the same name for WotC's Alternity RPG, and your friend is right - they're excellent books, and useful for DG. The most recent one, "Of Aged Angels", has cybernetically augmented Russian PSI spies, chaos magic, ancient entities returning after aeons beyond, and a lost piece of alien technology - the Holy Grail. Much of the Dark Matter material can easily be used for DG, and they're still reasonably easy to get hold of. Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Children's Lit You know, not a Child Lit, but a good idea is a novel called the Blade of Tyshalle, the sequel to Hero's Die (I guess because I haven't read it) by Matthew Stover. Very bad synopsis: Basically about the interaction between some sort of another dimension where magic works and it is sort of a 'fantasy setting' and the earth where we (the earthlings) send over people who have camera's planted in thier heads and the earth uses it as a type of mass-media entertainment. This novel decribes the first 'war' between the two realms and has gods and all sorts of wierd stuff going on. Could make for a very neat Dreamlands setting for the near future... David _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jessthecatasc@eircom.net Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:57 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Casting Call > Now, for the supporting characters: Christopher Walken for Adolph Lepus? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 7:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit From: "Nick Brownlow" >>> Wheras I can't condone all this Harry Potter nonsense (Dave, pull yourself together man ;)),<<< At first I ignored it, following my dictum that "If it's hyped that much, it ain't worth reading." Then my daughter (who can only read Japanese, not English) asked me to buy the first book for her in Japanese, so I picked up the English version so we could read it together (I can't read Japanese--yes, it's an interesting family situation). I fell for it. Not terribly hard, but I did really enjoy it. Eventually I read the next two books and liked them, only I started to suspect that the series was petering out...it was getting repetitious. But I've just read the 4th book and was quite impressed--definitely the best. Much more complex, a bit darker, plus a bit of romance. As children's lit, it's really quite good--perhaps not the best out there, but good. The hype is annoying, though. Anyway, my opinion of the book's quality is not on-topic here--sorry. For DG purposes, though, it would make a great Child's Dreamlands. Say you've got a child who's a very powerful Dreamer, who takes over a corner of the DLs, and populates it with the characters and settings from all those books she loves--Harry Potter, Narnia, Curious George, Wonderland, The Monster at the End of This Book. All, of course twisted in ways both good and bad. And then your agents have to go in there for some reason... That could be a mission just as dangerous as any other, but with a wistful, childhood-memory feel to it at times--when it's not in *terrifying* childhood-memory mode. It would also be a good basis for a Slumberpunk (see Davide Mana's upcoming article in _The Black Seal_) scenario. >>> Philip Pullman's 'Dark Materials' trilogy comes highly recommended. A lot like the Potter stuff, but much much darker. Northern Lights is the first in the series (may have been printed under another title in the States though), followed by The Subtle Knife and then The Amber Spyglass.<<< Just finished the 3rd book of that a couple of weeks ago. The first volume is called _The Golden Compass_ in the American edition. Overall, I liked these too, although I couldn't get into it as deeply as I like to. Part of the problem was Pullman is really quite unsubtle about beating the reader over the head with his philosophy--a philosophy I somewhat agree with, but I still find it annoying to get whacked with it every few pages. Knocks me out of the story. But yes, there is much to mine for DG here. The whole War in Heaven bit would fit into a DLs setting easily, and the Subtle Knife would make a very cool artifact--basically, it's a knife that can make Gates between dimensions, though there's a lot more to it than that. And the Shadows are terrifying. BTW, there's a discussion about CS Lewis vs. Philip Pullman here: http://www.revolutionsf.com/forum/read.php?f=9&i=148&t=148 You'll recognize a couple of names there. Another great dark kid-lit series (well, *I* read it as a kid) is the Earthsea books (most people think of them as a trilogy, but a 4th book came out some time back). Gave me nightmares. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 7:15 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit Ah. I've recommended it before. "Marianne Dreams" by Catherine Storr. One of the first examples of a properly understood Dreamspace in popular childrens' literature. Filmed as PAPERHOUSE. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 8:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Farnell" > Another great dark kid-lit series (well, *I* read it as a kid) is the > Earthsea books (most people think of them as a trilogy, but a 4th book came > out some time back). Gave me nightmares. Yes indeedy. I read them in college and enjoyed them. There's not much difference between the straightforward style of something for children and Hemingway. ;-) What I mined from that series is the importance of names. I think every magic system I've written about since has included that element. If you don't know the word, you can't think the thought. At least for left side functions. I've even dabbled with formulating left hemisphere\right hemisphere magic in place of left and right hand. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:28 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit On 17 November 2001, still about two hours in the future for me here in Charleston, "Dave Farnell" said (or will say): >I fell for it. Not terribly hard, but I did really enjoy it. I haven't read it yet, myself, though 'Becca, the 10 year old daughter of a good friend of mine, apparently is very fond of Harry Potter! (She'll probably grow up to be a powerful Mage someday...) I also know somebody who may not be fond of Harry... Allegedly, an airport security guard in Philadelphia, a few weeks ago, refused to allow a young man to board his flight. The Harry Potter book the young man was carrying "looked suspiscious", so it was confiscated temporarily, while the kid (who did not have a beard, and who was not wearing a black turban) was interrogated for most of an hour, and the security man leafed through the book and took lots of notes. The kid was eventually sent home, and, when the inevitable call came from his (the kid's) mother, the guard insisted the kid "was making jokes about bombs". (The kid knew better than that, and the next call was from the parents' lawyer... I hope they throw the book at this guard -- he's giving good guys a bad name!) So be careful about trying to take Harry Potter onto your next flight!:) >Anyway, my opinion of the book's quality is not on-topic here--sorry. For >DG >purposes, though, it would make a great Child's Dreamlands. Say you've got >a >child who's a very powerful Dreamer, who takes over a corner of the DLs, >and >populates it with the characters and settings from all those books she >loves--Harry Potter, Narnia, Curious George, Wonderland, The Monster at the >End of This Book. Narnia... When I was much younger, I often wished I could find a way of really traveling there, outside of the pages of a book! (Well, with some of my interests, even then, I suppose that should be expected...):) I've heard rumors of a TV mini-series, but have never seen anything on TV other than an animated version, a few years ago, of "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". I was very amused back around 1980, when GDW (for their RPG Traveller) named a species of felinoid alien the "Aslan"! (Someone else in the audience asked Marc Miller (the game designer) the question I was about to: "Do they speak Narnian?"):) And almost no one could understand why, in one RPG, I named my starship the "Dawn Treader"... (I think most people try and forget the tales they read in their childhood!) Curious George was one of my favorites, too, when I was a child! It took me awhile to get into the Wonderland tales -- I was really more fond of Oz! If we're going to be encountering the Seuss type beasties, let's not forget the Cat in the Hat, or Sam-I-Am! (It is rumored that General Fairfield's favorite breakfast was an omlet made of Green Eggs and Ham!):) And the Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote! (Those investigators had better be careful around these two -- they do interesting things to the laws of physics! And whatever you do, whatever heavy ordnance or gadgets you are packing, _do not attempt to attack or capture the Road Runner_!!):) Also, My Father's Dragon... (My mother read that to me as a bedtime story when I was about four or five, and I still have the book itself in storage...) If the young Dreamer is anything like I was when I was young, the investigators may encounter a few surprises... My childhood heroes included Horatio Hornblower (I read my first Hornblower novel -- "Hornblower and the Hotspur" -- while in the 3rd grade, and it inspired me to hunt down technical data on sailing ships to better understand Forester's technical terms...):), Captain Nemo, Robur, and several heroes from the Heinlien juveniles! >All, of course twisted in ways both good and bad. And then >your agents have to go in there for some reason... > >That could be a mission just as dangerous as any other, but with a wistful, >childhood-memory feel to it at times--when it's not in *terrifying* >childhood-memory mode. It would also be a good basis for a Slumberpunk (see >Davide Mana's upcoming article in _The Black Seal_) scenario. Now _there_ is a new genre! Just as Jules Verne is credited with being the "creator" of SF, and Tom Clancy of technothrillers, Davide will be considered the "father of Slumberpunk"!:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "'Dawn Treader'? What kind of name for an exploration ship is 'Dawn Treader'?" -- player in a long-ago Star Trek RPG _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Chris Womack [jcwomack@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:39 PM To: deltagreen revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Children's Lit on 11/16/01 8:07 PM, Dave Farnell at superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp wrote: > Another great dark kid-lit series (well, *I* read it as a kid) is the > Earthsea books (most people think of them as a trilogy, but a 4th book came > out some time back). Gave me nightmares. Actually, LeGuin's put out a collection of Earthsea short stories (and essays, IIRC), called appropriately enough _Tales from Earthsea_, and a fifth novel, called _The Other Wind_ in the past year. Gotta keep up, Dave. Okay, so I haven't actually gotten hold of either book yet, but the blurb from the latter sounds like it ties into our thread on using children's lit to fuel a DG DL/Slumberpunk scenario nicely: "The sorcerer Alder fears sleep. He dreams of the land of death, of his wife who died young and longs to return to him so much that she kissed him across the low stone wall that separates our world from the Dry Land ‹ where the grass is withered, the stars never move, and lovers pass without knowing each other. The dead are pulling Alder to them at night. Through him they may free themselves and invade Earthsea." Gotta love the Dry Lands. Another place to look for a couple more Earthsea short stories is in a collection LeGuin put out some years back called _The Wind's Twelve Quarters_. One of the shorts in there is a Dry Lands tale. As for Harry Potter, I'll agree with Dave's last remarks: good, not fantastic, over-hyped but not necessarily over-rated; the most recent shows real promise in making a big jump in the level of sophistication and darkness. (Digression time: As for the casting in the film, I'll give you Alan Rickman, but they really should've cast Nick Brimble in the role of Hagrid. To tie this into the other pointless thread that's in progress, you gotta use Brimble if you're looking to describe some wooly, wild-eyed chunk of muscle for the Army of the 3rd Eye--I can just see him holding down some squirming, frothing MP with one beefy arm and lowing that drill to his forehead with the other...) In all the casting about for titles to put on the shelf beside the Harry Potter books, I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci books (_Charmed Life_, _The Lives of Chrisopher Chant_, _The Magicians of Caprona_, and _Witch Week__; Chrestomanci shorts also appear in some of her short story collections). I've only actually read the first book (in order of publication, not necessarily in series chronology), _Charmed Life_, but that made quite an impression. There's one scene in which the spectres of the young protagonist's murdered alternate selves are summoned forth, including his first death as an infant who was (IIRC) drowned, described as this bloated thing with a much-too-big head bobbling along on little chubby wobbly legs. Quite the inspiration for nightmares for the lunchbox-and-bookbag crowd, and possibly an image worth swiping for the hypothetical DG gig we're discussing. C Chris Womack jcwomack@earthlink.net Keeper of the DGML (Ret'd.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:50 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Casting Call I don't know. Walken is... well, he's Walken... but he can't do Southern, and Southern is integral to Lepus. I think Tommy Lee Jones is as close as you're going to get. He's not skinny enough, and he's spent too many recent years being vulnerable underneath the gruff, but if he can switch that around he could make it work. Agent "K" is a surly tough guy with a soft spot; Lepus is all smiles and murder. Lepus is Delta Green if it didn't give a shit. If TLJ got plumb mad-dog mean and happy about it, he'd be right. Shane Ivey Producer, RevolutionSF http://www.revolutionsf.com/ -----Original Message----- > Now, for the supporting characters: Christopher Walken for Adolph Lepus? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Casting Call At 10:50 PM 11/16/2001 -0600, Shane Ivey wrote: >I don't know. Walken is... well, he's Walken... but he can't do Southern, >and Southern is integral to Lepus. I think Tommy Lee Jones is as close as >you're going to get. He's not skinny enough, and he's spent too many recent >years being vulnerable underneath the gruff, but if he can switch that >around he could make it work. Agent "K" is a surly tough guy with a soft >spot; Lepus is all smiles and murder. Lepus is Delta Green if it didn't >give a shit. If TLJ got plumb mad-dog mean and happy about it, he'd be >right. Jones is just too damn virtuous (though Jones circa '70s might fit) and you're right, Walken can't do Southern. http://us.imdb.com/Name?Patton,+Will If you want Lepus, look know further than Will Patton. That man *is* Lepus. All he needs is the gold teeth and a pair of lifts, he's good to go. As for Alphonse, I'm partial to Philip Baker Hall. He's about the right age, got the swarthy look, and while he might not be as husky as the description, he's got the bags underneath the eyes that could only be earned by a man that's seen the kind of horrors that Alphonse has. http://us.imdb.com/Name?Hall,+Philip+Baker Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Casting Call I saw tom baker as Prof Dumbledore. DG... er... Tom Sizemore goes good with any 'heavy' role, and he can play fucked up fairly well when he wants to. I go great with milk. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Casting Call ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" > If you want Lepus, look know further than Will Patton. That man *is* > Lepus. All he needs is the gold teeth and a pair of lifts, he's good to go. Not a bad choice. He's not quite big enough, but then Alan Ladd was rather small. But he could deliver the performance. > As for Alphonse, I'm partial to Philip Baker Hall. He's about the right > age, got the swarthy look, and while he might not be as husky as the > description, he's got the bags underneath the eyes that could only be > earned by a man that's seen the kind of horrors that Alphonse has. After seeing 'From Hell' my mind traveled back to 'Cracker.' I'm getting partial to Robbie Coltrane as Alphonse. Check the selection of pics at http://images.google.com/images?q=Robbie+Coltrane&hl=en for the looks, 'Cracker' for the angst and 'From Hell' for his management style. I don't doubt that he could be as American as Gary Oldman. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:43 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Children's Lit Wrinkle in Time and its sequels Some of the Hardy Boys, both before and after Dixon's death Van Alesburg (sp)'s stuff. He did one some time ago that dealt with pictures in a house and some of them were bang-on. Dr. Seuss has his moments (what is the occult signifigance of the cat in the hat?) Not quite children's 'lit,' but I had a running theory about Beavis and Butthead's 'the great cornholio' being Beavis possessed by one of the lesser-known loa. The God of Feces did appear in a cloud in an earlier episode, so there are precidents for divine intervention. Jojo Blows Off the Goat by William Impossible, which hasn't been written yet and probably never will, since William Impossible's head is in my fucking refrigerator and will stay there until he stops talking like a bug. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 4:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Slumberpunk correction [was [DG] Children's Lit] Greetings. >That could be a mission just as dangerous as any other, but with a wistful, >childhood-memory feel to it at times--when it's not in *terrifying* >childhood-memory mode. It would also be a good basis for a Slumberpunk (see >Davide Mana's upcoming article in _The Black Seal_) scenario. Sorry, Dave - excellent idea, but wrong reference. My piece about Slumberpunk was in the last "Whisperer". The Black Seal powers that be are too smart to allow me a free hand in the collective subconscious ;> But I'm happy to see the definition is catching. Incidentally, almost time for another story, I think. God knows I've had quite some weird dreams lately - apart for the usual return of a certain recurring character and locations (as usual, when I'm under stress), there was a bit about a sitting for the Certamen Pedemontanum in which I was asked by a highly aggressive referee to translate from Latin a terribly convoluted piece about the origins and traditions of the Savoia Cavalleria horse guards. Crazy. Now I'm carefully checking sources, as I can remember a fair chunk of the text (hey, I did translate it, right?), and, hell, it's proper Latin - if clearly very late in structure and extremely nasty - lots of passive verbs and stupid stuff the Romans never used. Sounds exactly as the kind of fake thing someone would have put in a 19th century textbook to torment students and impress them with the past glories of the royal house. Did my brain make up a fake 19th century text? Or did I dream an actual document I'm pretty sure I never read? Both alternatives are pretty weird. Davide Mana started waking up in a sweat again Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of SGlancy12@aol.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 4:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Casting Call John Tynes once confided that his inspiration for Lepus was Willem Dafoe's role in Lynch's "Wild at Heart." As for me, I was thinking of Leo Mackern when I dreamed up Alphonse, although Wilfred Brimley would do in a pinch. A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Lee Williams [leewilliams@demonground.org] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:55 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit /lurk off/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Layne To: Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 3:28 AM Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit > Narnia... When I was much younger, I often wished I could find a way of > really traveling there, outside of the pages of a book! (Well, with some of > my interests, even then, I suppose that should be expected...):) I've heard > rumors of a TV mini-series, but have never seen anything on TV other than an > animated version, a few years ago, of "The Lion, the Witch, and the > Wardrobe". > Didn't the BBC do the Chronicles of Narnia as a Sunday afternoon serial sometime back in the late Eighties? Those might be avaialable on video somewhere. There again I might have dreamed it all... Lee Williams ICQ 25628876 Associate Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future http://www.demonground.org leewilliams@demonground.org /lurk ON/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:48 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit Yeah. My chldren love them. They are available on AMAZON in VHS. But I don't feel this adaptation captures much of the religious feeling of the original. And, as I doubt I need to say, the religious message of the original, while it is completely a part of the story, is *not* a Lovecraftian one. It is explicitly and powerfully anti-Lovecraft. It's a Christian, or more succinctly, a Catholic, one. The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Williams" > > Didn't the BBC do the Chronicles of Narnia as a Sunday afternoon serial > sometime back in the late Eighties? Those might be avaialable on video > somewhere. > There again I might have dreamed it all... > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:25 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Casting Call In message , Shane Ivey writes >I don't know. Walken is... well, he's Walken... but he can't do Southern, >and Southern is integral to Lepus. I think Tommy Lee Jones is as close as >you're going to get. He's not skinny enough, and he's spent too many recent >years being vulnerable underneath the gruff, but if he can switch that >around he could make it work. Agent "K" is a surly tough guy with a soft >spot; Lepus is all smiles and murder. I always picture Lee Van Cleef "Ol' Angel-Eyes" as Lepus. -- Julian Breen _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:27 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: [DG] Casting Call <> [snip] <> You obviously never caught 'The Bogie Man' (although in all fairness he was playing a Scotsman who only *thought* he was Humphrey Bogart, so perhaps he was hamming it up on purpose...). I'm with Glancy - Leo McKern is who I see whenever anyone mentions Alphonse. -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: LOTR LORD OF THE RINGS? You can't dodge it. Not superficially Lovecraftian, no. But . . . I mean, it's a myth, nearly a religion for our time. And you wait till the films come out. Well, what do people think? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:33 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit <> [snip] <> Yes, I'm kind of hoping that PISCES will hurry up and locate this Hogswart's place and send in the SAS. I kind of like the sound of 'Harry Potter and the Insects from Shaggai'. -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:02 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: LOTR Cheers. The Glove Cleaner rattled my chain and wrote.... >LORD OF THE RINGS? > >You can't dodge it. > >Not superficially Lovecraftian, no. But . . . I mean, it's a myth, >nearly a religion for our time. And you wait till the films come out. > >Well, what do people think? Mixed feelings is my byword when LOTR is concerned. The book is good (should have read it three times, both in Italian and English), and a feat of world-building etc etc etc. Fact is, I fear I've outgrown it, and there's fantasy books that, while being less ambitious, I do like much better. So sue me. The roleplaying game was too damn complicated. About the movie, mixed feelings again - I'm pretty eager to catch it as I'd be eager to catch any major fantasy movie. The little I saw was pretty impressive in terms of effects and stuff, and they can't have messed with the story-line that much. My fear is, as usual, the fans. Lotries as trekkies, if you catch my drift: people that will run around in silly clothes and rubber pointy ears, learning Elvish grammar, buttonholing you to explain that the stuff that guy Dunsany wrote were basically cheap rip-offs of Tolkien's, and all the rest sucks, and no I did never read anything else but LOTR is the greatest. You know what I'm taliking about. "Science Fiction" is already synonymous with "Star Trek" for the public at large. I'd hate to see "Fantasy" turned into a subgenre of Tolkien's donnish ramblings. And I'm scared as hell at the merchandise and spinoffs. As for Mythos possibilities, I generally give LOTR a reading time of about 1 month and a SAN loss of 1d4. No spells acquired, but certainly traces of derangement, and the unnerving habit of drastically separating Good and Evil. 1d8 SAN loss if you actually learn speaking Qenia or Sindarin. +2 Cthulhu Mythos - you understand Detail is no guarantee of Reality (and should read Dick at this point, only most Lotries won't). Davide Mana Torino, Italy PS - and then LOTR is obviously a Star Trek rip-off. Or the other way around. . _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:59 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: RE: [DG] Children's Lit > > Didn't the BBC do the Chronicles of Narnia as a Sunday afternoon serial > > sometime back in the late Eighties? I'm not sure if they were BBC, but I remember one of them. Tom Baker played "puddleglum." And I'll echo the standard info - CS Lewis' Narnia books were very christian. They came from the standpoint that there was good and evil in the world, and you were either on one side or the other with no grey. I'm not a Catholic (though I play one on TV) but I have to hand it to the man for writing in that style. There's a reason his books are considered classics. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:31 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Casting Call I'm not sure who he'd be, but Daniel Von Bargen ... a beefy older guy, who can do evil real easy (or good, I think) Was in Lord of Illusions as Nix (the evil undead guy), in the Postman, and in loooots of other things. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Nerva Vels [nerva.ramos@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 8:44 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Children's Lit I know this has been said before, but frankly, and forgive me those of you who are deeply faithful, but isn't religion in itself slightly creepy? I mean, think of it, generations of mankind conditioned to believe in something larger, older, greater, more powerful than themselves, some'one' who's coming soon to cleanse the earth, and certain people shall survive in a paradise. Who's paradise? All is just a veneer of whitewash to lull the masses for when the GOOs come back they can have an almost willing population. It's been said they're above good and evil but that doesnt' mean they can't USE the simple concepts for subjugation. They got all the bases covered! I loved CS Lewis's books. Not only the narnia stuff, but also the perelandra stuff. Yet, they were oddly disquieting..... and as for children, Dreamland and Carcosa.. and I know this has been said before - they are the richest source for the stuff in there - dunno about you, but I would NOT want to meet the stuff they see on the telly in any of my Dreamland quests! (Using Blue of Blue's Clues as a bonny little blue pup who tries to continuously draw you away from the path to play with you.....) okay, it's too early in the morning for me and I'm going back to bed. ciao. Oh, and wish me a happy b'day, y'all, I'm a year older and none the wiser.. LOL! nana nervy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 9:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Children's Lit > I know this has been said before, but frankly, and forgive me those of you > who are deeply faithful, but isn't religion in itself slightly creepy? I > mean, think of it, generations of mankind conditioned to believe in > something larger, older, greater, more powerful than themselves, some'one' > who's coming soon to cleanse the earth, and certain people shall > survive in > a paradise. Taking this away from the Western religious tradition, it is *equally* creepy for the very overgeneralized Eastern religious traditions desire to untie with the god-head. Or the Daoist 'be one with nature and live forever' > Who's paradise? All is just a veneer of whitewash to lull the masses for > when the GOOs come back they can have an almost willing population. It's > been said they're above good and evil but that doesnt' mean they can't USE > the simple concepts for subjugation. > They got all the bases covered! > I loved CS Lewis's books. Not only the narnia stuff, but also the > perelandra stuff. Yet, they were oddly disquieting..... Doh! Forgot about the Peralandia books... Excellent for an PISCES campaign. > and as for children, Dreamland and Carcosa.. and I know this has been said > before - they are the richest source for the stuff in there - dunno about > you, but I would NOT want to meet the stuff they see on the telly > in any of > my Dreamland quests! (Using Blue of Blue's Clues as a bonny > little blue pup > who tries to continuously draw you away from the path to play > with you.....) Television: Johnny Quest? Some of the wierd Japanese Live Action that I remember from my childhood (Spectreman IIRC...) Or how about the figures from Sesame Street??? Heck, the Teletubbies or Barney should be worth a little San loss right of the bat. > Oh, and wish me a happy b'day, y'all, I'm a year older and none > the wiser.. > LOL! It doesn't change, you just get better at covering up the lack David _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] CNN: Sitcom for Great Old Ones Okay, this is a breaking story so no one can say "oh, yeah, we talked about this two years ago..." :) This guy got the busiest airport in the world evacuated and shut down, and delayed flights across the country for three hours. Why? Because this jerk didn't want to miss a football game. I can just hear his inner monologue: "Me me me, it's all about me. And football. Me and football." And I can see Nyarlathotep kicked back with his feet on the coffee table, munching popcorn and watching CNN, chuckling to himself about how the stupid humans just make it far too easy. -b. _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Children's Lit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nerva Vels" > I know this has been said before, but frankly, and forgive me those of you > who are deeply faithful, but isn't religion in itself slightly creepy? I > mean, think of it, generations of mankind conditioned to believe in > something larger, older, greater, more powerful than themselves, some'one' > who's coming soon to cleanse the earth, and certain people shall survive in > a paradise. Nervy, I'm so glad it was you that brought this up. I still cringe about some thoughtless comments I made awhile ago. Now let's see how many people I can alienate with some thoughtful comments. ;-) Bill Hicks once questioned the wisdom of considering a Christian (I was going to use the term "devout", but that would send crossed signals) to be a good choice for President. Wouldn't you want someone who *doesn't* believe in an afterlife with his finger on The Button? Someone who *doesn't* think Armageddon is inevitable? The dominant faiths in American politics (or politicians) teach that trying to make a better world is futile, the Apocalypse is predestined. No heaven on Earth until *after* the carnage. There doesn't seem to be much incentive for delaying the inevitable, especially for those sure they will disappear in the blink of an eye when the going gets rough. Suicide had to become a mortal sin to keep the serfs from opting out of their short brutish lives. The heavenly carrot required a hellish stick to keep the kine treading the grain. Of course, that was back when destroying all life on Earth wasn't within the grasp of mortals. > Who's paradise? All is just a veneer of whitewash to lull the masses for > when the GOOs come back they can have an almost willing population. It's > been said they're above good and evil but that doesnt' mean they can't USE > the simple concepts for subjugation. If the Toetapper can appear as Frederick the Great to counsel Hitler, and as a transcendant Hitler to counsel the Triumvirate, it doesn't seem farfetched to imagine a few other masks he could wear while influencing events. Islamic scholars with sanity intact wonder how the Koran could be so misinterpreted that terrorism can be justified. Why does the KKK leave burning crosses? > I loved CS Lewis's books. Not only the narnia stuff, but also the > perelandra stuff. Yet, they were oddly disquieting..... His depiction of pure evil fascinated me when I read them. "Ransom." "Ransom." "Ransom." "Ransom." "What?" "Nothing." > Oh, and wish me a happy b'day, y'all, I'm a year older and none the wiser.. > LOL! Happy Bidet! Ba dum ching. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:33 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Children's Lit Okay... the separation of church and state part, because some consider witchcraft a religion, is what blew my mind in the story below. That, and the cult-leader-like power local radio personalities have over communities. *** >From http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20011116/en/film-potterschool_1.html FARGO, N.D. (Reuters) - A witchcraft controversy brewing in a North Dakota town forced a local school to cancel a field trip to a screening of the new Harry Potter movie Friday. About 100 students from Agassiz Middle School in Fargo were slated to attend the opening day of the widely anticipated movie, ``Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone,'' which revolves around the adventures of a young wizard in a world of nonmagical mortals known as muggles. All the students, mainly aged between 12 and 15, had parental permission to attend the trip to a local movie house during school hours. But a few concerned parents and one local radio personality successfully killed the trip after raising concerns about the movie's depiction of witchcraft. The fact that some consider witchcraft a religion, the protesters said, meant that the school-led trip to the movie theater would constitute a violation of the separation of church and state and possibly lead to legal action. ``It's a little bizarre,'' said Fargo School Superintendent David Flowers, who supported the field trip. ``We believe that we were on firm ground in letting the kids go. But (the school) made the decision ... that they would just as soon not be embroiled in a controversy.'' Meanwhile in Memphis at least two Catholic schools said they were keeping the series of ``Harry Potter'' books by author J.K. Rowling out of their libraries because of the witches and wizardry content. --- stabernide@netscape.net (Nick Brownlow) wrote: ><> >[snip] ><> > >Yes, I'm kind of hoping that PISCES will hurry up and locate this Hogswart's place and send in the SAS. I kind of like the sound of 'Harry Potter and the Insects from Shaggai'. >-- > > > > >__________________________________________________________________ >Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ > >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:02 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Children's Lit >From: "The Lizard King" > > I loved CS Lewis's books. Not only the narnia stuff, but also the > > perelandra stuff. Yet, they were oddly disquieting..... > > His depiction of pure evil fascinated me when I read them. > > "Ransom." > "Ransom." > "Ransom." > "Ransom." > "What?" > "Nothing." I found this fascinating and inspiring, myself. Evil that just was whatever it had to be. The devil plucked the legs off of small animals and other innocent beings in Venus, which was in a state of grace. Long story. The Devil was tempting this woman, and being perfectly charming and sweet and intelligent to her. Ransom told the devil 'you can't fool me'. The devil didn't bother. It just ... tormented him. It couldn't attack him without being obvious, so it just... bugged him. It was elemental evil that would be childish or animalistic or suave or whatever... whatever it needed to be to accomplish evil. I can't possibly capture the feeling it evoked, but it's great reading. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Ewing [ambjpe@gis.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:16 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Children's Lit On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:31:57 -0800, The Lizard King wrote: > Now let's see how many people I can alienate with some thoughtful >comments. >;-) > > The dominant faiths in American politics (or politicians) teach >that trying >to make a better world is futile, the Apocalypse is predestined. No >heaven >on Earth until *after* the carnage. There doesn't seem to be much >incentive >for delaying the inevitable, especially for those sure they will >disappear >in the blink of an eye when the going gets rough. Whoa, whoa, whoa! You're alienating me and I'm a cheerful agnostic! You have failed to grasp an important distinction between pre-and post-millenarian strains in Protestant thought. Many Xians believe that Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years or so, and everything will grand, and *then* will come the judgement. And of course many believers do *not* think the end times are right around the corner, or at least confess that they don't know when they'll be. It's just the raving James Watt types you characterize above that get all the press. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Ewing [ambjpe@gis.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: EOWM and The new Masters On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:51:29 -0000, Andy Robertson wrote: > >However. The relevant thing is this. > >One aspect of this "retribalisation" is the way upper class people >more and >more consider themselves a separate "tribe" from the lower class. "D" in Modern Political Philosophy, Mr. Robertson. What you're proposing is nothing new. It's called "class consciousness," and no one who has given it any thought has failed to notice that it's the upper classes that developed it first, have held onto it through the putative "democratization" of the west post WWII, and continue to develop and maintain it. However, I'd argue that it was at it's full flower a hundred years ago. -- Jeff Ewing, ambjpe@gis.net on 11/17/2001 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 2:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Children's Lit > Read "The Lemonade Trick" ; it will probably be at the local library and > can be read at one sitting. I defy you not to think of amphetamines or > cocaine as the active ingredient in most cases, with some hints > of Electric > Kool-Aid at the school dance. > Go on, what occured there? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 2:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Children's Lit > You know, not a Child Lit, but a good idea is a novel called the Blade of > Tyshalle, the sequel to Hero's Die (I guess because I haven't read it) by > Matthew Stover. > > Very bad synopsis: > > Basically about the interaction between some sort of another > dimension where > magic works and it is sort of a 'fantasy setting' and the earth where we > (the earthlings) send over people who have camera's planted in thier heads > and the earth uses it as a type of mass-media entertainment. This novel > decribes the first 'war' between the two realms and has gods and all sorts > of wierd stuff going on. Could make for a very neat Dreamlands setting for > the near future... There was a good book, I think a trilogy, that I read in high school. I think the first volume was called Godslayer. Basically it was an adaptation of Norse myth with a twist -- a young soldier in Vietnam is, at the moment of his death, transported back to the Norse time. This was the work of one of the good gods, I forget which. My synopsis looks stupid upon reading it over but the book was actually very good. Here's the link to amazon but it's really not of much more use. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0886773725/qid=1006017810/sr=8-4/ref= sr_8_3_4/107-9274574-5256509 The thing I've noticed in my time of reading is that I've gotten a bit more cynical about badly written books and the good ones can look just like the bad ones on the outside. I have less time to read now that I'm older and I am much more annoyed when I run into a crappy book, it's a thief of time from more deserving books. The other thing that's sad is how books just go out of print, forgotten. When I first started reading I didn't really have a sense of time for the books, they were simply there when I became intrested. Looking back it's scary to see how books I tresured are now forgotten in the libraries. It's sort of like when video stores became popular, the collection of movies could be counted on to be there; the supermans, the rocky's, campy but fun comedies and horror movies. Now you have to go to non-blockbusters to find those. Well, enough of that. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/