From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Kindred [kindred@wizard.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] SPY GAME Agents, I saw SPY GAME at a sneak preview Monday night. Nice, solid, old-fashioned, old-school espionage thriller. Not an action flick, but more an old style spy flick of outsmarting the opponent rather than outgunning him. Very interesting stuff. lots of nice tradecraft and paranoia for DG fodder. Particularly interesting is a bit on running unauthorized ops. Another amusing thing is that in the current pro-CIA mood of the country, this movie could probably not be made today... Kindred _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Sean McGuinness [seanmcguinnessuk@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:09 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? Matter of interest, aren't neutrinos produced by nuclear reactions? Hints of Azathoth, anyone? Sean __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: LOTR Greetings. >For that matter, what about Mythos fans? I think there's still too few of us to be entitled to a nickname. And we get very little visibility, probably because we are not that radical - never met someone dressed-up as Cthuga, or someone trying to convince me "The Exorcist" was just a cheap rip-off of "The Dunwich Horror". And there's no sex worth mentioning, no short-skirted lieutenants, no chick-of-the-week for the captain. I mean, c'mon - trekkie females debate the multifarious charms of Will Shatner's backside at conventions, we debate Derleth's take on the Mythos or Lumley's approach to it. Who ever heard Derleth's ass mentioned outside of the literary critical field? No leather and fetish Klingons, for us, no fake foreheads. We do not get hobbits, either. What Howard called halflings was short and bruitish, slightly reptilian and wholly hostile. Pipeweed and limerick-trading were never part of that. And we can't learn the lingo - while "Ia, ia, Cthulhu ftaghn" is all right and fine, you can't actually buy the grammar (even if Chaosium's "Mountains of Madness" campaign had some write-up of the Elder Thing writing system). And we do not use pointy rubber ears. Finally, where Roleplaying systems are concerned, our own does not suck. So, let's face it - we have still a long way to go before we graduate as a subculture proper. Davide Mana Still convinced Prof. Wilmarth could kick Spock's ass any day. Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:26 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Taliban abandon surrender plan after 'prophetic dream' > > Let us not forget the hazards of Prophecy: does "There will be a great > > victory" ring any bells? > > >Which horrible cockup was that from? The Trojan War. I believe that was the Oracle of Delphi prophesying to... um... shit. Someone help me out here. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:54 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: LOTR >From: Davide Mana >I think there's still too few of us to be entitled to a nickname. >And we get very little visibility, probably because we are not that radical >- never met someone dressed-up as Cthuga, or someone trying to convince me >"The Exorcist" was just a cheap rip-off of "The Dunwich Horror". Hey, "The Darkest Thickets of the Hillside" dress up as Mi-GO/lobsters for gigs. >And there's no sex worth mentioning, no short-skirted lieutenants, no >chick-of-the-week for the captain. We do have ANDREA, the ultimate freudian figure. And Shubby. And the DGML even has gerbils. If this is good or bad, I do not know. Jussi M God bless John Wayne. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of philip.ward@yestelevision.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:50 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Law Enforcement Source A virtual library full of dry-facts and PDF's with which to improve the realism of your PC's investigations: http://virlib.ncjrs.org/LawEnforcement.asp For example: Guide for Explosion and Bomb Sccene investigations http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/181869.pdf Cheers, Phil ********************************************************************** This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain confidential or privileged information and should not be read, copied or otherwise used or disseminated by any unauthorised person. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Yes Television (Europe) Ltd . If you are not the named recipient, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail from your system. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jürgen Hubert [jhubert@gmx.de] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:13 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? > Matter of interest, aren't neutrinos produced by > nuclear reactions? Hints of Azathoth, anyone? > > Sean Since I just had to learn more about Neutrinos than I really wanted to know for some of my physics finals (which kept me off the List since the beginning of September - and my, did I miss out on some interesting world developments), I'll field that question... Yes, neutrinos are produced by nuclear reactions. Basically, anytime an electron is created from nuclear processes, an anti-electron neutrino is also created (or an electron neutrino is destroyed in the process, but since neutrinos rarely interact with matter, this hardly ever happens). And anytime an anti-electron (or positron) is created, an electron neutrino is created as well. These types of reactions are commonly referred to as beta radiation. There are other types of neutrinos as well. As the electron neutrionos are linked to electrons, so are the other types of neutrinos linked to other Leptons (a class of particles to which electrons belong). These other Leptons, the myons and the tauons, have the same electric charge as the electron, but have a much higher mass and are unstable. They are usually only created in high-energy situations, like matter-antimatter destruction... - Juergen Hubert -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: LOTR Greetings. >>And we get very little visibility, probably because we are not that radical >>- never met someone dressed-up as Cthuga, or someone trying to convince me >>"The Exorcist" was just a cheap rip-off of "The Dunwich Horror". > >Hey, "The Darkest Thickets of the Hillside" dress up as Mi-GO/lobsters for >gigs. Kid, I'm talking about a guy that did the Venice-Turin train trip wearing a Federation Admiral's uniform, and once in Turin crossed the city by bus dressed as a dummy, going to a friend's house where he was _not_ expected, saluting his host's mother with the Live Long and Prosper sign before asking permission to board (the same permission he asked the bus conductor, by the way). Oh, did I mention the uniform was home-made, using his mother's poker table mat? By comparison, the Thickets are sane professionals doing their thing, and I respect that. We are debating plain weirdos. >>And there's no sex worth mentioning, no short-skirted lieutenants, no >>chick-of-the-week for the captain. > >We do have ANDREA, the ultimate freudian figure. And Shubby. And the DGML >even has gerbils. If this is good or bad, I do not know. Gerbils apart, I would not ogle Shub-Niggurath, nor I think hitting on Andrea would be a good idea. But I can concede we might get some kinky sex in the Fate, and a few assorted cults. Yet again, in the same field, the Skoptsi are the ultimate conversation killer, if you catch my drift. And here I cut this nonsense short ;> Be seeing you. Davide Mana Torino, Italy PS: Sauron - Nyarlathotep wannabe? I'd love to get HPL's opinion on Tolkien's books. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Taliban abandon surrender plan after 'prophetic dream' > > > Let us not forget the hazards of Prophecy: does "There will be a great > > > victory" ring any bells? > > > > >Which horrible cockup was that from? > > The Trojan War. I believe that was the Oracle of Delphi prophesying to... > um... > > shit. Someone help me out here. > Was there *ever* a case of the Delphic Oracle giving a bit of prophecy that was of immediate use to those who heard it and were able to act upon it appropriately? Most anything they said either made sense after the event occured (concerning the big-ass war with Persia) or just made things worse for the people who asked (anything having to do with Oedipus.) In fact and fiction, it looks like the Delphic is an evil bastardette. :) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:48 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Taliban abandon surrender plan after 'prophetic dream' >Was there *ever* a case of the Delphic Oracle giving a bit of prophecy that >was of immediate use to those who heard it and were able to act upon it >appropriately? I can't think of one, but remember, we just know about the misfortunes of the big, powerful and tragic (read 'doomed'). We don't know if Busterus Hymen, raker of cowshit, went to the temple and got a good omen that came true without irony or a hidden catch. Busterus Hymen lived up to his name, raked shit till he died and was buried, and we only now learned of his name. There's a reason why news is usually bad - everyday people don't make good sources for plays. The pattern seems to be: big powerful moron gets to a quandry and can't think his way out of it; said moron goes to the Oracle to get advice; said Oracle writhes on the floor and says the first thing that comes to mind; said moron interprets this verbal vomit any way he chooses - most likely in his favor; tragedy occurs; 100+ years later, the playwright's audience chuckles knowingly, wondering why the schmuck in the king's mask didn't see it coming. Often times, when watching movies when a person's folly brings great, Jerry Bruckhiemer-style destruction, I hear a voice in my head saying "And this is how the Gods say 'fuck you.'" The Gods used to be able to say 'fuck you' in person, a long time ago. Now we just call it dumb luck. J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Stuart Gordon's DAGON The first trailer's out! http://movies.fantasticfactory.com/dagon/trailer-eng.htm -berin ******** http://unclebear.com/deltagreen Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:50 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Ultimate Dual NPC Backstory Generator He's a maverick small-town librarian from the 'hood. She's a chain-smoking streetsmart pearl diver prone to fits of savage, blood-crazed rage. They fight crime! Lol! 'Chaser. > http://www.rain-street.org/fightcrime.htm > >Ha ha ha. Ha. Ha. > >J. > >Ha. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:17 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] SAN in the age of irony --- Davide Mana wrote: >Kid, I'm talking about a guy that did the Venice-Turin train trip wearing a >Federation Admiral's uniform, and once in Turin crossed the city by snip >By comparison, the Thickets are sane professionals doing their thing, and I >respect that. >We are debating plain weirdos. snip Are you inferring that on some levels, Mythos fans are *more* sane that (at the very least) other fans? :) This draws me to a tangent about SAN loss. I've wondered if, in the present day, SAN loss should still be the same as it was in the 1890s and 1920s. I mean, with all of the violence on TV (mostly the news, but movies and video games, too), there is a certain level of desensitization. We're jaded. In spite of news reports, we're still living in the age or irony. And yes, I realize, it's not the violence that causes most of the SAN loss, it's about being exposed to concepts outside ability of the human mind to normally grasp. But I consider violence at least a contributing factor. For example, a horrific act that might have used to cause 1d6 might only cause 1d4. I'm not talking about for everything, but if the cause of SAN loss relates to something the person takes for granted in the "real world", the impact might be lessened. So does the "real life" horror make Mythos horror easier to take? Or (and this is what I believe, to some degree) should starting SAN be lower *because* we've already been exposed to so much more? Have most of us already lost a fair chunk of SAN coming into the game (literally and figuratively)? I'm just looking at the number of people I know in therapy for one reason or another. For some of them, exposure to the Mythos might throw them right over the edge. For others, I think they'd shrug and mumble something like "yeah, that F@#$%figures" as they were eaten alive. And apologies if this was already discussed before I jointed the group; I found nothing in the archives, though. _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:40 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? In a message dated 11/20/01 4:16:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: > Very high energy neutrinos > actually interact with matter slightly. Neutrinos can blow a star apart if > there are enough of them and they are high enough energy. > > The Glove Cleaner > Yes, but what are the odds of that happening? One would think that the chances (via Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle) would be indeed there, but is there even a prayer of this happening during the lifetime of our universe? From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jürgen Hubert [jhubert@gmx.de] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:06 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? > In a message dated 11/20/01 4:16:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, > andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: > > > > Very high energy neutrinos > > actually interact with matter slightly. Neutrinos can blow a star > apart if > > there are enough of them and they are high enough energy. > > > > The Glove Cleaner > > > > > Yes, but what are the odds of that happening? One would think that the > chances (via Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle) would be indeed there, but > is > there even a prayer of this happening during the lifetime of our universe? I sense a confusion about Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle here. While this principle states that yes, the location of a given particle become more uncertain the more you know about its impule, in practice this still means that the location of a particle is confined to a very small area. In other words, don't hold your breath for galaxy-hopping neutrinos... If enough neutrinos can blow up a star (and I haven't heard about this theory before, though I wouldn't discount it), then they have to be created by nuclear processes within the star itself - that, or GOO involvement. But I am sure you knew that already. More fun facts about neutrinos: - some astronomers speculate that they make up part of the "missing mass" that is supposed to glue our universe together. - As far as we know, the sun emits only a third of the neutrinos it is supposed to according to our current understanding of solar nuclear fusion processes. Most scientists take this to mean that we need to improve our understanding of solar nuclear fusion processes. Others take this to mean that our sun is running out of fuel, and that its transformation into a red giant is immanent, destroying the Earth in the process. You make your own call... - Juergen Hubert -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:51 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] SAN in the age of irony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berin Kinsman" > > So does the "real life" horror make Mythos horror easier to take? Or (and this > is what I believe, to some degree) should starting SAN be lower *because* > we've already been exposed to so much more? Have most of us already lost > a fair chunk of SAN coming into the game (literally and figuratively)? Violence was much more common in the past, in the sense that people suffered premature death far more often. At least if you go back a century or so. People do suffer a great deal of "SAN loss" in ordinary life nowadays, but it is IMHO not because life is more violent, but because it is more fragmented and anomic. Andy R _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:03 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? >From: Jürgen Hubert >- some astronomers speculate that they make up part of the "missing mass" >that is supposed to glue our universe together. There is considerable question on whether neutrinos have rest mass, which figures prominantly in this speculation. >- As far as we know, the sun emits only a third of the neutrinos it is >supposed to according to our current understanding of solar nuclear fusion >processes. Most scientists take this to mean that we need to improve our >understanding of solar nuclear fusion processes. Others take this to mean >that our sun >is running out of fuel, and that its transformation into a red giant is >immanent, destroying the Earth in the process. You make your own call... Actually, there is recent evidence that suggests that what is happening is that the neutrinos are shifting into the other types of neutrinos. Three major types, only one type detected by the original detectors. They confirmed the other types are there. Now, only one type is supposed to be produced through fusion (as far as I understand it), and it's hard to detect the other two types, so the physicists weren't just being stupid. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:27 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: LOTR On 21 November 2001, "Jussi Marttila" wrote: >>From: Davide Mana >>I think there's still too few of us to be entitled to a nickname. >>And we get very little visibility, probably because we are not that >>radical >>- never met someone dressed-up as Cthuga, or someone trying to convince me >>"The Exorcist" was just a cheap rip-off of "The Dunwich Horror". > >Hey, "The Darkest Thickets of the Hillside" dress up as Mi-GO/lobsters for >gigs. Or else they are actually Mi-Go, who normally wear clever Human disguises, removing them for their gigs? Will we see people at HPLCon wandering around in the froglike diving suits from the pilot episode of Johnny Quest, saying they're Deep Ones? And real Deep Ones wandering around at the con claiming to be people in froglike diving suits claiming to be Deep Ones? ("Fred over there won Costume Call for his Deep One outfit, but he never removed the mask the whole con, even when he was scarfing down all the tuna salad in the Con Suite!"):) Other entrants in Costume Call might include Percy, whose Cthulhu costume was so good it drove the judges insane! People in three-piece suits, or in uniform, claiming to be DG personnel, and getting into midnight Laser Tag battles in the 3rd floor corridor with those claiming to be Deep Ones? (Real DG Agents, disguised as fans disguised as DG Agents, hunting real Deep Ones disguised as fans disguised as Deep Ones?) Real Greys and Men in Black among the hall costumes? Classified vehicles out in the parking lot? Is that an RV over there, or an EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle? That minivan has an Area 51 sticker -- maybe it really did come from there? (Some of the new minivans look more like shuttlecraft than some of the shuttlepods on some of the Star Trek series... A friend of mine, who owns one, is talking about getting some magnetic Starfleet markings to put on his to see if people really pay attention...):) I've worked as a Gofer and Security at cons -- I can all too easily imagine this happening! > >>And there's no sex worth mentioning, no short-skirted lieutenants, no >>chick-of-the-week for the captain. > >We do have ANDREA, the ultimate freudian figure. And Shubby. And the DGML >even has gerbils. If this is good or bad, I do not know. Some believe there were gerbils on Star Trek, to run in a wheel and generate auxiliary power while Mr. Scott works to bring the main engines back on line... However, most students of Treknology seem to believe that even by Kirk's era, the auxiliary power system of Federation starships was powered by the larger and arguably more energetic _hamster_, although gerbils may have powered the generators aboard some of the larger, warp-capable shuttles. In "Enterprise", however, a case can be made for a gerbil-powered auxiliary generator aboard Captain Archer's less-advanced starship. It is speculated that the Chief Engineer, in between bouts of yelling about how he distrusts Vulcans, may soon cobble together the first hamster-powered generator for a Terran starship... whereupon, an episode will be devoted to the crew's efforts to capture or purchase a hamster to run in the wheel!:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? ----- Original Message ----- From: William Timmins >>Others take this to mean >>that our sun >>is running out of fuel, and that its transformation into a red giant is >>immanent, destroying the Earth in the process. You make your own call... > Actually, there is recent evidence that suggests that what is > happening is that the neutrinos are shifting into the other types of neutrinos. Yeah, neutrino mixing. I believe a fairly small cooling (neutrino emmissions increase very fast with temperature) would have explained the missing neutrino problem, but there was no way of getting that cooling out of solar models. But neutrino mixing explains it :-( I was kinda disappointed by this. I love the idea of some Thing sitting in the heart of the Sun, sucking the life out, bringing a red giant before its time. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:51 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] SAN in the age of irony I mean, with all of the violence on TV (mostly the news, but movies and video games, too), there is a certain level of desensitization. We're jaded. In spite of news reports, we're still living in the age or irony. One thought: with TV, video games, et. al., the violence is depicted only visually & auditorially. Witnessing a real-live SAN buster is another matter, in part because other senses are involved. Fires = smell of burnt flesh. Witnessing a knife / claw attack at close range = Agent splattered with warm blood. Find old corpse = smell, perhaps sound of maggots humming away. And yes, I realize, it's not the violence that causes most of the SAN loss, it's about being exposed to concepts outside ability of the human mind to normally grasp. True. Perhaps with some, who think they're imune to the effects of witnessing violence since they did so well with the simulations, a freak-out caused by the smell / feel could be worse. should starting SAN be lower *because* we've already been exposed to so much more? Have most of us already lost a fair chunk of SAN coming into the game (literally and figuratively)? I'm just looking at the number of people I know in therapy for one reason or another. For some of them, exposure to the Mythos might throw them right over the edge. For others, I think they'd shrug and mumble something like "yeah, that F@#$%figures" as they were eaten alive. Now that reminds me of an older thread... something about Humanity being a lock which keeps some of the Old Ones in check. 'The Stars are Right' really meaning 'When all are as the Great Old Ones are'. As the end times approach (as humanity becomes more and more like the great old ones) initial / average SAN is lower and lower... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:57 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] SAN in the age of irony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Robertson" > Violence was much more common in the past, in the sense that people suffered > premature death far more often. At least if you go back a century or so. And witnessed a lot more wife-beating and child abuse first hand. Also saw a lot of gnarly "industrial accidents," public executions, floggings and such. Which is more desensitizing, a starved corpse on the street or a game of Quake? Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] OOPS (re CBF 2 Pt III) I have just realized that I accidently split "Lance" Morton into Lance and Morton. The error was all mine - I misread that part of part II and thought there were two people. I'm terribly sorry to have given the rest of the writers the chore of dealing with a fellow with a rolicking case of MPD. Feel free to have him find his medication in the next few parts. Past that, I hope part III was enjoyable. Feel free to send criticism and/or compliments to me, either privately or over the list. thanks, and OOPs J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:07 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Modern cultists for modern times >From http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/16/wvid16.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/16/ixhome.html "Despite all this flashiness, bin Laden seems hardly flamboyant as an orator - certainly not modern. Yet his grasp of spin, of product-packaging, is chilling. If you did not understand his hateful and ugly words, you could easily believe he is simply a preacher. His body language is gentle and controlled: only his right hand moves, and then never farther than six inches from his body. Rarely does he shake his fist, a gesture familiar in all propaganda. When he does, it is with weary anger: his cause is so self-evident that he does not need an indignant mime show. But it is those eyes that grab you - otherworldly, luminous eyes that remind me of Charles Manson's. They never meet the camera. It is as if he doesn't see this world - only the spiritual dimension." It's the last sentance that give me chills. Substitute another name for "bin Laden", and you've got a perfect description of a 21st century Mythos cult leader. -berin ******** http://unclebear.com/deltagreen Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Mclean [Shane.Mclean@t-online.de] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:17 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] SAN in the age of irony > So does the "real life" horror make Mythos horror easier to take? Or (and this is what I believe, to some degree) should starting SAN > be lower *because* we've already been exposed to so much more? Have most of us already lost a fair chunk of SAN coming into the > game (literally and figuratively)? I'm just looking at the number of people I know in therapy for one reason or another. For some of > them, exposure to the Mythos might throw them right over the edge. For others, I think they'd shrug and mumble something like > "yeah, that F@#$%figures" as they were eaten alive. Actually, I'd say that the san loss for everyday horrific stuff owuld be lower due to desensitisation, etc, and the san loss for Mythos/wierd stuff would be higher, due to the fact we are a less superstitious and more scientifically rational people in the modern world. Take care, Shane _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman [trollboy@shoggoth.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] SAN in the age of irony I showed "In the mouth of Madness" to a 14 year old girl for the first time and after it was over, explained the fulll mythos implications of the whole thing.. She was never the same.. after I was done she actually started crying... I had no idea at the time that it would have that effect on her I assure you. SAN is relative, but one thing you should realize, as one 14 year old may shrug off genocide after years of quake, another may collapse from witnessing a single mugging after years of having MTV spoon feed her her emotions. Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Site Designer: phpslash.org The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. -H.P. Lovecraft --------------------------------------------------------- Please do not resell my e-mail address to anyone or send me unsolicited e-mail --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berin Kinsman" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:17 AM Subject: [DG] SAN in the age of irony > --- Davide Mana wrote: > >Kid, I'm talking about a guy that did the Venice-Turin train trip wearing a > >Federation Admiral's uniform, and once in Turin crossed the city by > snip > > >By comparison, the Thickets are sane professionals doing their thing, and I > >respect that. > >We are debating plain weirdos. > snip > > Are you inferring that on some levels, Mythos fans are *more* sane that (at the very least) other fans? :) > > This draws me to a tangent about SAN loss. I've wondered if, in the present day, SAN loss should still be the same as it was in the 1890s and 1920s. I mean, with all of the violence on TV (mostly the news, but movies and video games, too), there is a certain level of desensitization. We're jaded. In spite of news reports, we're still living in the age or irony. > > And yes, I realize, it's not the violence that causes most of the SAN loss, it's about being exposed to concepts outside ability of the human mind to normally grasp. But I consider violence at least a contributing factor. For example, a horrific act that might have used to cause 1d6 might only cause 1d4. I'm not talking about for everything, but if the cause of SAN loss relates to something the person takes for granted in the "real world", the impact might be lessened. > > So does the "real life" horror make Mythos horror easier to take? Or (and this is what I believe, to some degree) should starting SAN be lower *because* we've already been exposed to so much more? Have most of us already lost a fair chunk of SAN coming into the game (literally and figuratively)? I'm just looking at the number of people I know in therapy for one reason or another. For some of them, exposure to the Mythos might throw them right over the edge. For others, I think they'd shrug and mumble something like "yeah, that F@#$%figures" as they were eaten alive. > > And apologies if this was already discussed before I jointed the group; I found nothing in the archives, though. > > _____________________________________________________________ > UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind > http://unclebear.com > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman [trollboy@shoggoth.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Doctor Fungus even stranger, docotorfungus.org (owned by the same guys) and doctorfungus.com are both AWOL right now... a traceroute to doctorfungus.org times out negotiating the first hop.. a NS-lookup does the same.. thier host even has disappeared.. Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Site Designer: phpslash.org The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. -H.P. Lovecraft --------------------------------------------------------- Please do not resell my e-mail address to anyone or send me unsolicited e-mail --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berin Kinsman" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: [DG] Doctor Fungus > I apparently have too much time on my hands. I found a site called DoctorFungus.com, "your on-line reference to all things mycological". It's got some interesting news, like "Mold Killed Daughter, Sues Landlord for $65M" and "460 million years old Fungi Fossils Found", as well as obvious propeganda like "Fungus Friend, not Foe". > > I typed "Yuggoth" into their search engine and got nothing, but when I typed in "Mi-go", it got 300 hits! Strangely, "Mi-go" does not actually appear on any of the pages I looked through, but if you look at the source code, there's a message urging you to STOP! > > -berin > ******** > http://unclebear.com/deltagreen > Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur > > _____________________________________________________________ > UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind > http://unclebear.com > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:41 PM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] DG:OT Latin help needed Not DG related, but I'm stumped. Can anyone translate the following phrase from latin into english: Vita brevis gloria aeterna If yes, let me know off list. Thanks. Graeme Normal service will now resume. -- graemep@immag.mcg.edu _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG: Neutrino Observatory Destroyed: Why? On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/20/01 4:16:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, > andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: > > > > Very high energy neutrinos > > actually interact with matter slightly. Neutrinos can blow a star apart if > > there are enough of them and they are high enough energy. > > > > The Glove Cleaner > > > > > Yes, but what are the odds of that happening? One would think that the > chances (via Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle) would be indeed there, but is > there even a prayer of this happening during the lifetime of our universe? In a type 2 supernova, the vast number of neutrinos are generated within the star by nuclear reactions transforming protons and electrons into neutrons, as the star itself converts to neutron-star matter. Each electron eliminated in this process gives rise to an electron-neutrino. For a solar mass or so of protons and electrons, this is a lot of neutrinos, enough to give a big kick to the surrounding matter, and enough for the neutrinos released in Supernova 1987a, in the Large Magellanic Cloud, to be detected by the forerunner to the SuperKamiokande neutrino detector. ObDG: This does mena that energetic processes a long way off can be detected with SuperKam. As suggested elsewhere, this may mean that Azathoth is up to something, possibly via the Shan... Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:27 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] OOPS (re CBF 2 Pt III) On 21 November 2001, "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" wrote: >I have just realized that I accidently split "Lance" Morton into Lance and >Morton. The error was all mine - I misread that part of part II and thought >there were two people. > >I'm terribly sorry to have given the rest of the writers the chore of >dealing with a fellow with a rolicking case of MPD. Feel free to have him >find his medication in the next few parts. > >Past that, I hope part III was enjoyable. Feel free to send criticism >and/or >compliments to me, either privately or over the list. > >thanks, and OOPs A few possibilities: 1. LCDR Morton Lane really does have Multiple Personality Disorder (though not as bad as one gentleman of my acquaintance in the SCA who (to the dismay of us Heralds) has (thus far) gone through seventeen SCA personae -- "none of them female or nonhuman, but 'watch this space'!"). Rumor has it that Morton once used this ability to completely crew a Foxtrot-class diesel sub he stole from Libyan extremists. Hopefully, this MPD problem can be controlled by appropriate medication, or he will be able to serve as a DG cell all by himselves... 2. "Lance", in the conversation, was not another facet of Morton's personality, but was the AI which -- among other things -- serves as the autopilot (pun intended) for Morton's Navy-blue 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. (This vehicle, with aftermarket modifications by CCS (http://www.spyzone.com) has Connecticut license plate SSN-571, and has bumper stickers saying "This vehicle speeds up to run over zombies!", "My other car is a nuclear submarine!", and "Go Navy! Beat Army!") 3. "Lance" in this case, wasn't Morton, but was Morton's PISCES contact, Leftenant-Commander The Honorable Lord Launcelot Holland, Royal Navy, certified bug-free and late CO of HMS "Triumph" (http://www.warships1.com/BRssn093_Triumph_frt.jpg). "Lance" to his Yank friend, the British submarine officer is named for his famous ancestor, Vice Admiral Sir Launcelot Holland, who went down with HMS "Hood" when that vessel engaged KMN "Bismarck" in May of 1941. He is distantly related to USN Captain Michael Holland (known to Delta Green as Agent HORATIO). For even more confusion, LCDR Holland, RN has occasionally used the code-name "Morton"! 4. "Lance" is the ghost of Lance Lane, Morton's uncle, who haunts his favorite nephew, a little like Briscoe County Jr.'s father's ghost haunted the hero of that series. A veteran submariner as well as a veteran of ONI's Division P, and recipient of numerous high decorations for valor and service, Vice Admiral Lance Lane passed away some years ago, but he still appears to his nephew at dramatically appropriate moments to discuss things with him, or to warn him of problems. He can only be seen by Lance, unless it becomes important to the plot that others see him. Uncle and nephew are both said to be related to Lois Lane, a reporter married to Clark Kent...:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:36 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] OOPS (re CBF 2 Pt III) Or 5. It's not really MPD but a common trait taken to a ludicrous extreme. "Lance" in this case is Morton's pet name for an entity others might call "Little Morton." This is why he won't discuss the worst thing he ever did, and seems to be in control of the car. But really, he just *seems* to have a mind of his own. ;-) Mark McFadden "There's videocameras everywhere in an airport. You can't take a piss without someone noticing. You can't buy a ticket without leaving a trail. If you've got them looking for you..." He let the point trail off, but Lance shook his head. "Man, come on. We're them, remember?" _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:54 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG:OT Latin help needed In a message dated 11/21/01 5:42:24 PM, graemep@immagene.mcg.edu writes: << Vita brevis gloria aeterna >> short life, eternal glory [I think] --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:36 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] SAN in the age of irony > Violence was much more common in the past, in the sense that > people suffered > premature death far more often. At least if you go back a > century or so. > > People do suffer a great deal of "SAN loss" in ordinary life nowadays, but > it is IMHO not because life is more violent, but because it is more > fragmented and anomic. > I agree. We face the anonymous nihilistic terror of being a cog in the machine of big business today but that is only horrific because we believe we really aren't cogs in the machine. Back in the past people not only were aware they were powerless, they had it made rather manifest with violence and death. I'd say there's less san loss in the past only because they never would of had a chance to accrue much san in the first place. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:16 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] OOPS (re CBF 2 Pt III) From: "Michael Layne" > A few possibilities: 6. Lancelot Link, Secret Chimp. Can't believe y'all left out that one. Dave re-reading that part of the chapter with "Lance" doing a bad Humphrey Bogart impression in my head now...oog _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] OOPS (re CBF 2 Pt III) >From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" I have just realized that I accidently >split "Lance" Morton into Lance and >Morton. The error was all mine - I misread that part of part II and thought >there were two people. > Actually, I think that error is my responsibility. I just reread what I had written and thought "oops, should have made that clearer". So, not your bad, my bad, I'll buy you a drink should we meet by chance. Jussi M God bless John Wayne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/