From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. -----Original Message----- From: The Lizard King > If you want to include the MiB's organizational Dilbertism to your games, >keep that part of the profile in mind. Your PCs might be prepared to come up >with alibis and explanations for behavior connected with a Night at the >Opera, but are they prepared to be interrogated by the Spanish Inquisition >looking for the sins of Sodom? Well of course not, no one expects... The real reason for painting all sorts of folks with the tarbrush of homosexual preversion, is that in order to acquire a security clearance, one must state one's sexual preference. Of course, no one is stupid enough to put down that they like same-sex partnerships. Therefore, the quickest way to revoke someone's security clearance and kick someone you're witchhunting out of the service is to tar and feather them with the stigma of homosexuality. After all, who's going to stand up for a child molesting homosexual prevert? That is the basis for such acts of character assassination, it removes allies who might otherwise be tempted to initiate a bureaucratic fight. The seemingly mindless obsession with homosexuality is often simply a pretense to purge and remove undesirables for whatever reason. Hoover, McCarthy and Nixon did it with Communism, and their ideological inheritors continue the tradition today with homosexuality... or terrorism... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. At 10:21 AM 12/3/2001 -1000, The Man in Black wrote: Excellent material. The only wrinkle I'd throw in is that winning THE GREY WAR might not be a very good thing. One of themes in DELTA GREEN is that while MJ-12 and DG might seem to be natural enemies, the conflict between them has and will do more to prevent any chance of doing anything about the Endtimes from succeeding. MJ-12 can have a good short run exploiting the Mythos till it engulfs them, and DG can die well and true to its Cowboy ideals, but the only hope humanity has against the Mythos is if the Bronsons and the Cowboys work together. THE GREY WAR would only focus their efforts on destroying each other, allowing the Mythos to fester at a greater rate, and somewhere Nyarlathotep is laughing. If Delta Green can get rid of MJ-12 with nothing more than alerting IOB and pushing for a Senate investigation, the whole thing looks quick and easy; but it won't work that way. IOB was unsuccessful in stopping the CIA from supporting death squads, running drugs for the contras and Laotian warlords, performing MKULTRA and biowarfare experiments within the United States, and ushering terrorists through immigration. It would be a lot less successful against something like MJ-12, which is so effective in the DG world it can keep most of its dirty tricks off the front page of the New York Times, something the CIA still can't handle. As for Senate investigations, MJ-12 has proved very effective in manipulating the political process to achieve its ends. If big tobacco and Microsoft can stall and sometimes squash Senate investigations, MJ-12 would have no problem whatsoever. MJ-12 can only be brought down by DG through covert operations: subversion, blackmail, and assassination. That would mean breaking the Rules of Engagement, which would means taking on Lepus and his Bronsons in a straight-up streetfight - DG's not equipped to do that. Even if DG is able exploit the Terror Scare created by Sept. 11th and fostered by the Bush administration, MJ-12 (which already has ties to Papa Bush) is in a much better position to exploit more from it and be stronger against DG because of it. The only way DG has any chance of taking on MJ-12 is through outside support. And there is only one significant player that wants to bring down the Mi-Go/Grey/MJ-12 operation as much as Delta Green. The Brotherhood of the Yellow Sign. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:15 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] GODLIKE and DG WWII I gotta run off for a class, but I just stumbled across something on the new website for GODLIKE, the WWII "superhero" game Pagan is putting out: http://www.hobgoblynn.com/PARA.html "Stephen J Whelan"? Wonder if he's related to the Colonel Whelan that was the head of P Division during the Innsmouth Raid. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. -----Original Message----- From: Gil Trevizo >Excellent material. The only wrinkle I'd throw in is that winning THE GREY >WAR might not be a very good thing. One of themes in DELTA GREEN is that >while MJ-12 and DG might seem to be natural enemies, the conflict between >them has and will do more to prevent any chance of doing anything about the >Endtimes from succeeding. MJ-12 can have a good short run exploiting the >Mythos till it engulfs them, and DG can die well and true to its Cowboy >ideals, but the only hope humanity has against the Mythos is if the >Bronsons and the Cowboys work together. THE GREY WAR would only focus >their efforts on destroying each other, allowing the Mythos to fester at a >greater rate, and somewhere Nyarlathotep is laughing. My position is that there is NOTHING that ANYONE can do to either hasten or delay the ENDTIMES. It is inevitable and it will occur when it occurs, regardless of the actions of a bunch of uppity primates. The Mi-Go are hastening their exploitation of humanity because the ENDTIMES are rapidly approaching, and even they can't or won't do anything about it. I doubt an unlikely alliance of humans could do anything to affect a natural shift in the local space/time continuum resulting in the ressurection of godlike alien entities. >If Delta Green can get rid of MJ-12 with nothing more than alerting IOB and >pushing for a Senate investigation, the whole thing looks quick and easy; >but it won't work that way. I never said it would be that easy. I merely stated that that would be how it ends. There is a lot of work to do before Majestic loses the political capital to defend itself from such an assault. OUTLOOK must be suborned, Steering Committee members must be purged, replaced or outright assassinated, influential politicians and members of the administration must be recruited and exploited, etc etc. > IOB was unsuccessful in stopping the CIA from >supporting death squads, running drugs for the contras and Laotian >warlords, performing MKULTRA and biowarfare experiments within the United >States, and ushering terrorists through immigration I disagree. The CIA has been emasculated. The majority of the things you mention occur well before William Colby's famous 1975 "family jewels" report that brought down the more unrestrained aspects of the CIA, and brought about things like the IOB (estb. 1976). Note that Iran-Contra (selling arms to Iran to fund the Contras) was conducted under the auspices of the National Security Council (of which the IOB is a subdivision). IOB simply reports to the president on the legality of Intelligence Operations. Whether or not the President acts on their advice is another matter entirely. >MJ-12 can only be brought down by DG through covert operations: subversion, >blackmail, and assassination. That would mean breaking the Rules of >Engagement, which would means taking on Lepus and his Bronsons in a >straight-up streetfight - DG's not equipped to do that. Even if DG is able >exploit the Terror Scare created by Sept. 11th and fostered by the Bush >administration, MJ-12 (which already has ties to Papa Bush) is in a much >better position to exploit more from it and be stronger against DG because >of it. The weakness of Majestic is that they've grown too big to keep secret. Only the miracle manipulations of OUTLOOK are able to keep them under wraps, which is why OUTLOOK needs to be suborned away from the Majestic Umbrella. If Majestic exploits the Terror Scare in any significant way, they only increase the chances of their exposure by increasing the scope of their operations. >The only way DG has any chance of taking on MJ-12 is through outside >support. And there is only one significant player that wants to bring down >the Mi-Go/Grey/MJ-12 operation as much as Delta Green. > >The Brotherhood of the Yellow Sign. I'd say that the only chance DG has of destroying MJ-12 is through an inside job, suborning them from within. Allying with Mythos Cults like the BOYS makes my skin crawl, it goes directly against our mission statement. Didn't ANDREA's briefing teach you anything? Seriously now... I'll give her a call and have her stop by your place for a quick remedial session. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:55 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] dastardly hybrid clone experiments From: " Andrew John Farrow" > http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_462557.html > yikes , farnel san please investigate and report back . Well, I checked it out in the Daily Yomiuri (motto: "Mouthpiece of the Liberal Democratic Party and Proud of It!"), but it doesn't add much to the Ananova article. Here's a quote, though: "The guidelines allow the implanting of human cells into fertilized animal eggs for medical purposes only, and will go into force Dec. 5. They prohibit human cloning, but lift the freeze on other types of cloning research. "The release of the guidelines has increased expectations among medical researchers that studies of the aggregate embryos could lead to rejection-free organ transplants. "The hope is that human organs could be grown in other species and later transplanted into humans." I guess the most surprising thing here is that, culturally, Japan has usually let other countries do this kind of controversial research for a few decades first, before allowing its own doctors to take it up. I mean, we only got heart transplants a couple of years ago! But now I finally have the seed of a conspiracy theory connected with the birth of the new Princess! Her mother, Masako, had to go to a fertility clinic near here called Saint Mother (somebody tell them that's a silly name for a hospital) to get help with getting pregnant because, according to rumor, the Prince is nearly infertile. I'll leave it at that for the moment, as, like Gil, I gotta run off to class. But this has more potential than the fact that the baby was born on the same day Harry Potter opened in Japan. Think Manimal Empress! Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:56 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] dastardly hybrid clone experiments DOH! Forgot the URL: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/index-e.htm Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 6:50 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Interception procedures On 3 December 2001, His Saurian Majesty "The Lizard King" said: > All four of those planes should have had a fighter escort before entering >New York or D.C. airspace, even if there were no plans to shoot anything >down. The unprecedented behavior was not just the hijackings, but the >deviation from Standard Operating Procedures. My guess is that a Board of Inquiry is asking these questions as well, and some Generals may end up taking early retirement. The regulations dictating intercept of flights over the CONUS were likely written back during the Days of the Addled ADIZ (Air Defense Identification Zone), when there were a large number of AOI (Areas of Interest) and restricted airspace zones within the CONUS. These, of course, were the days when ADC (Air Defense Command) had large numbers of fighter squadrons to keep on alert, and intercept any suspiscious seeming planes that got off course. Stray off your flight path, and you could expect to find an F-106 off your wingtip, and another at your six, his missile bay doors closed, but you know he's got you in his sights, and all it will take is the push of a couple of buttons! Unfortunately, the Washington bean-counters decided that "missiles make bombers obsolete" and "due to this, the air intercept mission is obsolete as well". The money spent on keeping those squadrons on high alert could be better spent on office furniture -- er, I mean, on high-tech missiles! The drawdown of ADC assets was already underway when it was worsened by the too-deep cuts of the post Cold War era. Deja vu... 1920s all over again... There Will Never Be Another War! The Dread Commie Menace is Kaput! Everybody in the World is _Friends_! Why do we need all these fighter planes on standby, for a threat which will never materialize? Even most of those air-defense squadrons which were retained were ANG -- which a lot of the regular AF called "weekend warriors", giving an idea of how vital the mission was seen as. The regulations were still on the books, of course, but it cost money to keep even the remaining interceptors on alert -- money that could be spent on more important things than combat readiness! There were offices to furnish, inspections to pass! Readiness was permitted to decline, but it didn't matter to the chairborne personnel -- who allowed this -- for who would attack the remaining Superpower? There may have even been some sort of protocol (official or unofficial) established during the Clinton years that bucked the decision for interception of a domestic flight up to JCS, SecDef, or even Oval Office level. It makes about as much sense as security guards being forbidden to load, or even carry ammo for, their weapons... This suggests a mad scramble after the second plane hit the WTC, while things went up the chain of command, and various people decided it was Somebody Else's Problem, Somebody Else's Responsibility... And an even madder scramble after the fact, as the hunt began within the echelons of DoD and official Washington for Someone To Blame. There were undoubtedly people who had warned of the hazards of letting air-defense readiness decline, and who had even postulated scenarios similar to what played out on 11 September. But, for them to have been right, too many Important People would have had to have been wrong, and we can't have _that_. Admittedly, it won't happen again -- not the way it did! Now, a plane that strays off course can expect an F-16 off one wingtip, with another in his six, guns hot. The visible problem is fixed, and now the brass can go on to the _real_ problem -- determining which of their own to blame, which of their own to throw to the wolves. Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "No combat ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat." -- Murphy's Rules of War _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 8:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Interception procedures ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > The regulations were still on the books, of course, but it cost money to > keep even the remaining interceptors on alert -- money that could be spent > on more important things than combat readiness! There were offices to > furnish, inspections to pass! Keeping interceptors on alert consists of parking them fueled convenient to the runway with a huffer and generator connected. I used to be one of the plane captains that occasionally got that duty. It's simply a matter of having one of the air-ready aircraft parked in a different location with the standard on-hand equipment kept handy. Everybody involved is already on duty and being paid the same as always. The pilots stay suited up and in the Ready Room rather than getting in everyone's hair. ;-) It's just another watch to be stood for everyone involved. The only extra cost is the consumed fuel if a flight is needed, but since planes are going up and down all day written off as training time anyhow it wouldn't cause a spike in a squadron's budget. It's not as if they have to buy extra aircraft or hire extra pilots. It's just another watch or duty that you get scheduled for. Sometimes you sweep the barracks out 3 times that day, and sometimes you have the Ready watch for 8 hours. There's no extra charge for people in the military, they are all on call 24/7 and getting paid whether they are sitting over here waiting or toting those barges and lifting those bales over there. Perhaps permission to fire at an airliner now requires permission from some stratospheric authority. Flight 007 and the airliner taken down by the Vincennes might have made everyone a little touchy, but that has nothing to do with putting a fighter up to have a look-see with human eyeballs. That is SOP and it is a *daily* occurence. It is so commonplace that it isn't even considered a military mission so much as aid to civil aviation. They go up to check the status of landing gear, herd planes back on course when there are communications problems and things like that. But they also are taught to look at the situation in the cockpit for signs of a hijacking and call back for instructions. You don't have to tell them whether they have permission to shoot before launching, they will not be maintaining radio silence. They are going up to look at an airliner, not doing picket duty in a no-fly zone. When I was in a recon squadron with planes armed only with cameras they took their turn on schedule along with everyone else. Frankly, any fuel or parts burned up performing those services is easier to justify in the squadron's budget than all those "training flights" that somehow end up in Fallon outside Vegas every Friday and don't return until Monday. How do you think all those clowns got to Tailhook? Ya think a shit hot rootin' tootin' Top Gun fighter jock takes the bus? > This suggests a mad scramble after the second plane hit the WTC, while > things went up the chain of command, and various people decided it was > Somebody Else's Problem, Somebody Else's Responsibility... That's why it was made SOP so long ago. The planes should have been up while everyone in the chain of command was scrambling to see who would take responsibility for having them do something while up there. And what I mean by "should have" is that on any other day they would have been there. Admittedly, my experience with Ready aircraft was in the mid-70s and a lot could have changed in the meantime, but damn. This wasn't directly war-related stuff, this was part of the civilian air safety infrastructure. Oh wait, that would include air traffic controllers too, wouldn't it? Never mind. But... the War on Drugs was also utilizing Ready aircraft to look at planes deviating from the flight path. Checking landing gear, intercepting hijackers and corraling smugglers all utilized the same planes and pilots and protocols. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 8:48 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > The seemingly mindless obsession with homosexuality is often > simply a pretense to purge and remove undesirables for whatever reason. > Hoover, McCarthy and Nixon did it with Communism, and their ideological > inheritors continue the tradition today with homosexuality... or > terrorism... Sombunall. Much of the seemingly mindless obsession is really a mindless obsession. We went over a lot of the same material back when we were discussing racism within the Nazi Party. (And you LOST that argument if anyone is keeping score! Pow! Zing! Straight to the Moon MiB! Kneel before me son of Jor-El.) Everyone smugly concluded that only the brutes on the streets were really racists, but since the guys on the inside were sharp (if sociopathic) cookies, they were only using racism to further their careers and agendas. Y'see, when the meme that racist=dipshit is reinforced again and again and again, and no one wants to create a stupid villain, well, then they can't be racists can they? It's axiomatic. Nope, the whole thing was just cynical manipulation of the mob. So let me again pose the challenge. Show me your evidence that otherwise intelligent people cannot have stupid beliefs. Further, show the historical evidence that they don't act on those beliefs, in spite of their intelligence. Playing the "homo card" to get an easy way of pulling security clearances and getting rid of undesirables is only one facet of a widespread practice. Yes, it can be cynically used to skip a bunch of tiresome evidence gathering and cut to the chase, but that does not explain aaaaalllll of the feverish activity going on the rest of the time. All that surveillance of softball players is not in the course of investigating anything, they were trolling for homosexuality. Not because of complaints or even anonymous accusations, just profiling. Look hard enough at any women's athletic team and eventually ya get one. It's Miller Time. Organizations have personalities and profiles just as individuals do. The Navy is not the Air Force is not the Marines is not the Army. They all have their own "personality" just as you can spot the differences between majors in college. Every organization has it's own culture to some degree, and those that deviate from the profile had better be exceptionally good at the job to make up for not being a "team player." "One of us. One of us. One of us." NIS has a "thing" about homosexuality. Maybe they think it is a greater threat to the Navy because of duty on ships. Maybe they are still sore about the Village People making fools of them when the USN thought "In The Navy" made a great recruiting campaign. Perhaps it's a good thing the YMCA doesn't have an investigative branch. I've seen them in action. When the NIS swooped down on our squadron because one fellow asked for a discharge (a cynical use of the system BTW. He wasn't gay but hated being in the Navy and wanted out) the parallels to "The Crucible" became evident. Everyone got questioned, and it was very hostile questioning with the attitude that you had better start proving your hetero credentials right quick or you would be in custody for a more leisurely interrogation. Now, based on your experience with human nature, do you think perhaps one or two people might have taken the opportunity to make life difficult for someone they didn't like? It was easy to do. You didn't have to accuse anyone, you just had to hesitate in verifying that they were undeniably hetero. They'd drop a name on me and when I'd hesitate (shit, I didn't know what they did with their dick and didn't care) they'd pounce. What? Is he secretive? Doesn't hang out with the others on his off time? Seems to have a secret? Bought track lighting? Accessorizes? Hums show tunes? Tell us! Anyhow, if anyone was planning on having a NIS bad guy being obsessed with the vast prevert conspiracy to pollute his precious bodily fluids, it would be fun and would fit the profile. Mark McFadden Oh, and if I have inadvertently insulted any current or former NIS personnel... oh well. ;-) Smiley! Sombunall, remember, sombunall. And that includes NIS pukes, uh, personnel. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Ewing [ambjpe@gis.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Interception procedures On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 00:43:52 -0800, The Lizard King wrote: > OK, I'm off again about 9/11, but dammit there are some big >questions that >need asking. > Please, don't take my word for it. Check out the FAA site at >http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap5/aim0506.html#5-6-4 to read the >procedures before that site disappears too. Make a copy. Great link. Two of the many interesting things about it are: 1) "aim0506.html" -- Provocative that AIM is the designation for air-to-air missiles (eg "AIM-54A Phoenix" ref. http://www.danshistory.com/arms.html), is it not? 2) The only response a plane can make is "Understood, will comply." There's no sign for "I'd prefer not to do that because this guy will shoot me if I do." > The unprecedented behavior was not just the hijackings, but the >deviation from Standard Operating Procedures. Agreed! -- Jeff Ewing, ambjpe@gis.net on 12/03/2001 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:49 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What Happened to the MiB? Folks, Sorry to consume bandwidth with this, but I just tried to get in touch directly with the MiB at the scroggin1001@hawaii.rr.com address he is currently using for his posts, only to be told by postmaster @hawaii.rr.com that no such user exists! No, I didn't misspell it -- I spelled it exactly the way he gives it in his address (see below)! Also, the 7th Chemical Group at Yahoo has apparently gone away, because I just attempted to post there, re the MiB's very recent suggestion that this PBEM might be revived... and Yahoo says "no such group"! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com (which, despite some odd problems itself today, still exists... I think...) >From: "The Man in Black" >Reply-To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com >To: >Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. >Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:52:29 -1000 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [Re: [DG] What Happened to the MiB?] >"Michael Layne" wrote: >Folks, > Sorry to consume bandwidth with this, but I just tried to get in >touch He was on Yahoo IM in the last week user name mib_dg Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:54 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. At 01:52 PM 12/3/2001 -1000, The Man in Black wrote: >IOB simply reports to the president on the legality of >Intelligence Operations. Whether or not the President acts on their >advice is another matter entirely. Then it gets down to whether or not one believes that this President would support MJ-12 or IOB. What kind of evidence could IOB provide that would convince the President to shut MJ-12 down? I could think of a dozen reasons, but I could also see a dozen more reasons that MJ-12 could use to justify their actions. And keep in mind that even the most Bush-friendly conservatives admit that the man defers greatly to his advisors, virtually all of whom were significant members of the previous Bush administration which was well-aware of MJ-12 and approved of the Accord. >The weakness of Majestic is that they've grown too big to keep secret. >Only the miracle manipulations of OUTLOOK are able to keep them under >wraps, which is why OUTLOOK needs to be suborned away from the Majestic >Umbrella. If Majestic exploits the Terror Scare in any significant way, >they only increase the chances of their exposure by increasing the scope >of their operations. I can't agree. The Terror Scare has increased American acceptance of covert operations and can only help MJ-12 in covering-up their activities. But let's go with this... MJ-12 gets cocky and overextends themselves so that DG can easily expose the true nature of their activities to IOB. IOB is part of a bureacracy, and any official action will take time between when DG draws its card and plays it - time where MJ-12 will recognize the threat and neutralize it, both politically (getting the President to tell IOB to lay off) and tactically (killing/blackmailing/tarring as a prevert anyone in IOB or helping IOB in their investigation). It might even be so flagrant a violation of the Rules of Engagement that MJ-12 lets slip the Bronsons of war and lays the final smackdown on DG. But suppose DG gets lucky and IOB works quickly and the case against MJ-12 is built fast enough that Majestic is caught unaware and solid enough that the President is too pissed to listen to what these alien-lovers tell him about the nifty new weapon tech that will win his undefined Mideast war just like it did for Daddy and make his missile defense plan something other than an expensive joke and how the Greys really love Jesus and only work on non-fetal stem cells. And he ignores the advice of Cheney, Powell, and his father, who specifically supported MJ-12 during his administration "faithfully." And he ignores the lobbying of whatever political action committees MJ-12 has in their pockets. And the Bronsons can always just chamber some magic bullets and arrange an easy-to-explain cowardly attack by Al-Queda sleeper agents and 20-year rule the Shrub. And DG can still insinuate itself back to official status in a political environment where having a government agency work with paranormal entities and events has proved to be a disastrous idea. And the CIA, the FBI, NSA and the Office of Homeland Defense all let some outsider horn in on their alphabet soup. And the elements of MJ-12 are completely purged so that none of them can fade into shadows and set up shop with some foreign government or worse, go into the private sector, where they can work against DG and subvert *them* the bureaucracy. And the assassination of hundreds of government employees by a new official DG still in the process of establishing itself doesn't get leaked to the press... unlikely, but it could happen if MJ-12 gets as fucked up as DG was in 1969. If DG can, as you say, suborn MJ-12 from within, they might have a chance. DG can exploit the conflicts in MJ-12 enough that they can pull enough members of the Steering Committee to their side and weaken so MJ-12 that they cannot provide a united political front when IOB comes knocking. The problem I see is that the only members that would might think of switching sides is Gavin Ross and Eustis Bell, and Ross only wants to use DG to take over the Steering Committee, not to end the Accord. And no matter who DG can subvert on the Steering Committee, if they don't bring in Lepus or at least kill him, it's all for shit. Lepus knows DG, knows who to hit, and will recognize who's to blame long before MJ-12 get taken down - he can destroy DG in a heartbeat. As for subverting Lepus, forget it - Lepus wants to replace Ross, and if DG begins to pose a tangible threat, he can use that and their relationship with Ross to bring the man down and elevate his own position. So, for the Grey War to succeed, DG has to get to Lepus. Either turn the man (unlikely) or kill him and somehow replace him with someone friendly to DG. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:15 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" Wrote all kinds of stuff. Now we're talkin' conspiracy. First up, the two (or more) DGs. There is Delta Green the government project that had a mandate and then lost it, and Delta Green the conspiracy of Cowboys. Restarting Delta Green doesn't imply that all the Cowboys will be gathered in the Chief's office to get their guns and shields back. If they have any involvement in a new improved Delta Green it will be through quiet PAPERCLIP-like channels. The conspiracy as a conspiracy will continue, but with more confusing terminology. I still see ONI as the agency that will stand the best chance of surviving purges and pulling strings. They know all the players, unlike all the other players. In fact, a reading of their history with MJ-12 (given the right spin) would portray them as trying to rein-in a covert group rapidly spinning out of control. C'mon, the head honcho was making filthy lucre for his private hoard from MJ-12 technology. Throw him to the wolves. Any of the players that didn't trust those little Grey bastards will be a hero, anyone else will be seen as soft on alien terrorism and be given a swift and just trial... somewhere. But it will be just and fair and won't bother anyone's pretty little heads with icky details of things that must remain confidential in the interest of national security. The biggest thing MJ-12 has going against them is the fact that they never acted like they worked for anyone else. The Accord would be another issue entirely, but the Steering Committee would be replaced with people who will do what the Executive branch says. It doesn't matter if this is a good idea or not, it doesn't matter if it's good tactics or in anyone's best interest, this is how purges work. I think everyone is overestimating Lepus. The guy is good and knows where most of the bodies are buried, but he is only as dangerous as the resources he has at his beck and call. If the Steering Committee is under fire, his logistics get hosed. I know, I know, I love him too, but unless we slip into movie logic where one rogue spook can threaten the whole world Lepus can only threaten what he can get into his sights. If he attempts to use aaallll the blackmail material he probably has, he will probably find his movements severely curtailed when he becomes Public Enemy #1 as the lone nut that sent the anthrax letters. The FBI has determined that the samples they have investigated are purer and more concentrated than anything they expected from overseas. They are hypothesizing (true, BTW) that the source of the spores was US military stockpiles. Bingo! Lone nut who has a record of working for Wackenhut. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:14 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Interception procedures On 3 December 2001, Jeff Ewing said: >Great link. Two of the many interesting things about it are: >1) "aim0506.html" -- Provocative that AIM is the designation for >air-to-air missiles (eg "AIM-54A Phoenix" ref. >http://www.danshistory.com/arms.html), is it not? AIM in the case of the above reference was "Airman's Information Manual", a standard reference source for aviators. My first exposure to it was back in the 60s, but it probably is even older. The AIM designation for missiles designed for an airborne launch platform and target was settled on about 50 years ago, when the USAF decided that, no, they could not sensibly assign an "F" designation to each air-to-air missile. (And, even if they wanted to really complicate things by doing so, it would send the wrong kind of message -- that the unmanned missiles were the fighter aircraft now, rather than the jets that launched them... And did they really want to change the song to "Off _It_ Goes, Into the Wild Blue Yonder"?):) No sinister intent here, just coincidence! The FAA (or it might have been its predecessor, the CAA) wrote a manual with a set of initials, while the USAF came up with a designation for (as I recall) Airborne Intercept Missile, with the same initials. They didn't cross-check with each other -- why should they have? Maybe if Mycroft Holmes had been still around and working for the US...:) And I don't think either government entity had anything to do with Advanced Idea Mechanics!:) > >2) The only response a plane can make is "Understood, will comply." >There's no sign for "I'd prefer not to do that because this guy will >shoot me if I do." The assumption (perhaps a bit naive) seems to be that a hijacked aircraft will be in radio contact with the ground and/or the interceptor aircraft, and that point can be made verbally. Of course, if the hijackers are now flying the plane, they will need to be able to tell the interceptor "No way! I'm going to fly over to that important place over there, and play Who Wants To Be a Kamikaze..." Fortunately for them, there is precedent for such communications. By longstanding custom, the intercepted aircraft's signal for "I will not comply with the interceptor's instructions" is to continue on its present course, or to execute a sharp 90 degree turn straight into the AOI (Area of Interest), preferably with an increase in speed. Making this turn directly into the interceptor aircraft off your wingtip is optional, especially as (being more maneuverable) he will probably be able to keep clear of you, and you have only made him mad... This action will most likely be punctuated by a "whoosh" (as the aircraft on your wing breaks away to make sure his buddy doesn't lock him up by mistake), a different "Whoosh" (together with the radio call "FOX One" or "FOX Two", as appropriate) from your six, a loud "BOOM!", and a shower of aluminum debris, in about the time necessary to say "Weapons released!" > > > > The unprecedented behavior was not just the hijackings, but the > >deviation from Standard Operating Procedures. > >Agreed! I just wonder if the inevitable inquiry is going to uncover the fact that this was not the first day SOP was not followed -- just the first day that it mattered! (And how political will it get? Will the emphasis be on solving the problem, or on finding someone to blame?) With the end of the Cold War, a lot of people in the US became very complacent -- perhaps _too_ complacent... It's just a question, in the end, of how high up the ladder the scapegoat will be found now... I wonder if the Commanding General NORAD, for example, has been replaced since 11 September? Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:30 AM To: DG List Subject: [DG] Inside the FBI HRT Greetings- I have not had a chance to look at this book yet, but an ex-member of the FBI HRT has written about his experiences: "Cold Zero, Inside the FBI Hostage Rescue Team", Christopher Whitcomb, (Little Brown 2001), ISBN: 0316601039. The book is reviewed at: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/books/reviews/20011130_dorsen.html and at Amazon (sorry about the url): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316601039/qid=1007447239/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/107-8921773-8314160 Has anyone had a chance to look at this? -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au Better living through reckless experimentation. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > Everyone smugly concluded that only the brutes on the streets > were really racists, but since the guys on the inside were > sharp (if sociopathic) cookies, Eh? Was I around then? > Y'see, when the meme that racist=dipshit is reinforced again > and again and again, and no one wants to create a stupid villain, >. well, then they can't be racists can they? It's axiomatic. Nope, > the whole thing was just cynical manipulation of the mob. Oh clever sharp Lizard King!! ;-)> > So let me again pose the challenge. Show me your evidence that otherwise > intelligent people cannot have stupid beliefs. Slight qualifier. Intelligent people can indeed have stupid beliefs. But they often have "stupid" beliefs - beliefs which are considered evil by the dominant classes of our society and are strongly propagandised against, the propaganda including countless images of how people who hold these beliefs are stupid, witless, etc. propagated through the media. Which is why bright people are often "eccentric". I guess that is what you are saying. > that does not explain aaaaalllll of the feverish > activity going on the rest of the time. All that surveillance of softball > players is not in the course of investigating anything, they were trolling > for homosexuality. My speculation, and it is only that, is that the prohibition on homos actually *IS* necessary, for reasons I don't understand, having never been in the military. That is to say the grunts at the bottom (aahem) are deeply convinced that they have got to keep homosexuality out, but the clever people at the top have bought in to the tolerance and inclusion thingy. What you have is an accurate rational inarticulate deep dread of homosexuality overlaid by a theoretical "don't ask don't tell" policy which is sabotaged at every turn by the folk who actually carry it out. --- *** --- Hmmm. ObDG. Let's assume for the sake of argument that tolerance of homosexuals in the military really **would** wipe it out as a fighting force (I am NOT going to debate whether this is true RL or not). Let's assume that the only thing stopping this disaster is the ignorant, insinctive, inarticulate, resistance of the grunts, who just know it ain't right. --- *** --- Then you have a paradox: the only thing keeping this organisation running is the brute tradition. But that tradition is headless - the directives coming from above tend to undermine it and destroy it. The "immoral" homophobic grunts are correct. The "tolerant" career officers are wrong. --- *** --- Leaving aside the question of homos in the armed forces in RL, I think this is a frequent pattern in modern society. An organisation is decapitated and career beaurocruds take over. These people are concerned with upping their own status and consequently look for things to change and ways to set themselves apart from the "inferior" folk they govern. Often, this takes the form of setting themselves against the fundamental beliefs of the governed, and manipulating the legal forms and the media to make it seem that these beliefs are ignorant, stupid, etc. Show trials and such follow. The degree to which the governed have to suffer agonies becomes a measure of the governers' moral virtue and consequently their status. --- *** --- In a DG situation? Easy. Imagine an organisation where the *effective* covert anti-Mythos acivity depended on something massively non-PC. For example, racial profiling, aborting certain children on genetic grounds, or excluding certain classes of people from the ranks for reasons that the officers just cannot be told. Such as - foreign, monoraciaal, (eg Hiatian or Mongolian) Mythos cults, - Deep One babies occurring in a non-white ethnic group where abortions bring about charges of ethnic genocide from racial campaigners. - The Tcho-Tcho infiltrating aa police dept. in an area with many Asians. Then introduce a radical media campaigner for civil rights, and a set of officers who respond to political pressure and Institute Reforms. This allows for a situation where the cop, soldier or social worker who is actively fighting the Mythos is also doing something that is immoral by the standards of his/her social group. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:19 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What Happened to the MiB? Michael Layne wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > Folks, > > Sorry to consume bandwidth with this, but I just tried to get in touch > directly with the MiB at the scroggin1001@hawaii.rr.com address he is [] > >From: "The Man in Black" To spell it in block letters: this is SCROGGINL001 and you wrote to scroggin1001. Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 7:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What Happened to the MiB? From: "Michael Layne" > Sorry to consume bandwidth with this, but I just tried to get in touch > directly with the MiB at the scroggin1001@hawaii.rr.com address he is > currently using for his posts, only to be told by postmaster @hawaii.rr.com > that no such user exists! > > No, I didn't misspell it -- I spelled it exactly the way he gives it in > his address (see below)! Sorry, Michael (or is it your alternate personality?)--the MiB's address isn't SCROGGIN1001, it's SCROGGINL001 (in caps so it's easier to see the difference). You've really got to get that Copy & Paste thing down. It would save you a lot of time in typing, and remove the need for posting multiple corrections to long URLs in those highly detailed and very informative posts. > Also, the 7th Chemical Group at Yahoo has apparently gone away, because > I just attempted to post there, re the MiB's very recent suggestion that > this PBEM might be revived... and Yahoo says "no such group"! Haven't checked that out, but Yahoo often goes temporarily buggy. Or the Secret Service might be breaking down his doors this very minute!! Dave > >From: "The Man in Black" _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:38 AM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Interception procedures Brought back memories of the Marine guards at Naval Station Yokosuka... empty magazine wells in their M9's... Base police carried no sidearms, but did have a single twelve gauge (either Remington 870 or Mossberg 590) in their patrol vehicle. Presumably they had ammo for that... somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Layne [mailto:theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:50 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Interception procedures On 3 December 2001, His Saurian Majesty "The Lizard King" said: <> _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 5:59 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] More on Enron Well, it appears I'm not the only one that sees the magickal themes in the new business paradigm. Here's an URL to an article about Kenneth Lay, the fella what got Enron going. "The Man Who Screwed The World" http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12005 "Why was Lay so successful? The Economist magazine described Enron as an "evangelical cult," with Lay its "messiah." It didn't hurt that Lay was preaching the gospel of deregulation, a gospel widely shared by both political parties." "And this missionary had clout. Lay had worked for FERC and was Deputy Undersecretary for energy matters for the Department of Interior. In the 1980s he became a principal fund raiser for President Bush and later his son. His board of directors included Wendy Gramm, wife of Senator Philip Gramm of Texas. A month after they left office, Enron put former Secretary of State James Baker and former Secretary of Commerce Robert Mossbacher on the Enron payroll. Lay golfed with President Clinton." "Like topsy, Enron kept growing, creating global markets not only in gas and electricity but in pulp and paper and most recently, in Internet bandwidth. In the past two years Enron traders have handled more than $1 trillion in transactions." "With his doctorate in economics, Lay undoubtedly will argue that he has improved efficiency. But now middlemen are everywhere in the energy system. A kilowatt hour of electricity can be bought and sold ten times between the time it is produced and the time it is consumed. As Wall Street has discovered to its chagrin, it is sometimes impossible to understand the transactions of a company like Enron." " In the last l2 months California alone has lost some $50 billion largely as a result of deregulation. Enron's collapse represents a loss of $70 billion in debt and equity. In other words, Kenneth Lay turned a sleepy, even stodgy energy system (which, nevertheless, was the world's lowest cost and most reliable system) into a go-go, take-no-prisoners, wildly competitive landscape." In other words, energy transactions became the province of primates shrieking in a pit. For a taste of "Invisibles" themes, remember that Bucky Fuller proposed world peace through a connected energy grid. Of course, that was with a boring dependable grid, not a commodities market. Prior to the Enron revolution, power was a stodgy rather uninteresting business to invest in. The only thing that could be said for it was that it was reliable. Not so anymore. If this was happening in a fictional world, my team of eccentric analysts would have been tracking the story and wanting to know more about this shaker&mover. We'd have our Tiger Team stalking him from a distance and getting Imint, then checking to see if he cast a shadow, or had a reflection. If he did, we'd want to know if he was meeting with any mysterious business people that seem to have come from nowhere and don't get in the papers. Analysts would check to see if public stances by public officials do a 180 after a golf game with him. Researchers would backtrack his life looking for oddities, interviewing former classmates, getting cozy with former associates. "Geez, he was pretty much a grind and a non-entity prior to joining that fraternity, then it was like he was a whole different person. A real dynamo." "No, I don't remember him lobbying for that Deputy Undersecretary position, someone just put his name on the short list I guess." "No, I don't remember him giving any lavish parties or anything, but now that you mention it he was invited to a lot of them for a Deputy Undersecretary." "He networked well." "I can remember a couple of times when he was able to turn the vote around at meetings. Everyone thought the vote was a slam-dunk before he got talking, then before you knew it everyone was agreeing with his points and changing sides. He was one eloquent son-of-a-bitch. Huh? No, I can't really remember just what it was he said, it was sort of the *way* he said it I guess. Very convincing. I suppose I'd be bitter if I had taken the stock options instead of the golden parachute, but que sera sera. That means "let the buyer beware" or something." Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 7:26 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, The Lizard King wrote: > I think everyone is overestimating Lepus. The guy is good and knows where > most of the bodies are buried, but he is only as dangerous as the resources > he has at his beck and call. Without my books to check this up, but as I understand it, he is head of security for MJ-12. If the sterring committee were to meet, he would be in charge of making sure they were safe. He would hand pick the NRO Delta boys who would guard the room. If DG were able to piece together enough decent evidence that they can convince Lepus of the Mi-go grey connection and that the steering committe needs purging, he can walk in to the meeting as it is underway with his handpicked, loyal to him, soldiers and stage some sort of Military Coup style takeover. Kill off the fanatics and the people who are selling humanity down the river for personal gain and try convince the others to see the light. This probably wont work very well (if at all), it probably isn't something Lepus would try unless he was absolutely sure it would work, but hey, catch Lepus and feed him to Nancy, if you can manage that without anyone noticing I think you've got a whole different ball game. Unfortunately there isn't much room to involve the players in this... -- Tim _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:19 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: "Tim Betz" > If DG were able to piece together enough decent evidence that they can > convince Lepus of the Mi-go grey connection and that the steering > committe needs purging, Or just convince him that MJ-12 is going down no matter what, and he can get in on the ground floor of the new, improved, government-approved Delta Green, with a guaranteed position of importance. Imagine how your players will feel when they find out Lepus is now their new best buddy? (most effective if he's been seen as the Ultimate Evil Bastard for several games before this happens) > he can walk in to the meeting as it is underway > with his handpicked, loyal to him, soldiers and stage some sort of > Military Coup style takeover. Kill off the fanatics and the people who are selling > humanity down the river for personal gain and try convince the others to > see the light. > > This probably wont work very well (if at all), it probably isn't something > Lepus would try unless he was absolutely sure it would work, but hey, > catch Lepus and feed him to Nancy, if you can manage that without anyone > noticing I think you've got a whole different ball game. Ah, MJ-12 probably has some sort of sniffer tech to defeat shapeshifters. > Unfortunately there isn't much room to involve the players in this... Actually, I like the idea of Lepus executing half of the Steering Committee so much, my imagination went off on how to get the players in on it. So how about this: At the beginning of a gaming session, you tell the players they're going to play a different character, "just for a little intro scene--then it's back to your regular characters, I promise." You hand them out character sheets of the MJ-12 Steering Committee members. That'll grab 'em! Include background info and roleplaying notes, and then start playing out the meeting so they can get into character. Let 'em start having fun with some wheeling and dealing. Then Lepus walks in and starts shooting certain members in the head... Then switch back to their regular characters, who, of course, know nothing of this. But work in little aftershocks of this event, which the players will be able to see as connected but will leave them wondering. Then, a couple of sessions later, Lepus is their new CO... Be sure to have extra sets of dry underwear handy for that moment. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:57 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. > Ah, MJ-12 probably has some sort of sniffer tech to defeat shapeshifters. I don't know they necessarily would, given that they're largely Mythos unaware. In a way they're sort of bizarre Mythos script kiddies, they have these cool toys for breaking the laws of the physics, but they don't know how or why these tools do what they do. I can think of anything they've come across that would lead them to take these sort of precautions, and if they did, if anyone has the knowledge required to circumvent it, it's Lepus :) Then again, my players are pissed enough at Nancy as it is. If I had her pretend to be Lepus I think they'd kill me for it... > > > Unfortunately there isn't much room to involve the players in this... > > they're going to play a different character, "just for a little intro > scene--then it's back to your regular characters, I promise." [snip: rest of neat idea] That's better than what I came up with, which was Lepus getting the PCs the right clearance and IDs etc. to pretend to be the security detail. (He wants people he's absolutely certain will follow through with killing the steering committee members) I really like your idea though, I don't think it'll fly with my current game, but I might steal it for the intro (or endgame) for a convention scenario if you don't mind... -- Tim Who must write his existing Con scenario first or Rob will kill him... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Who knows what? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Betz" > > Ah, MJ-12 probably has some sort of sniffer tech to defeat shapeshifters. > > I don't know they necessarily would, given that they're largely Mythos > unaware. In a way they're sort of bizarre Mythos script kiddies, they have > these cool toys for breaking the laws of the physics, but they don't know > how or why these tools do what they do. Hmmmmm. Let's just who knows what. Players, go away now, it's SPOILER time. [cue Final Jeopardy music] S P O I L E R MJ-12: Greys and Grey tech. Mi-Go biotech they think is Grey tech in Cookbook. Tillinghast Resonator, T-radiation and beasties it unveils. Really arcane human psych stuff. Intel via the Accord. ONI: Greys and Grey tech. Aware but probably not hands-on. Mi-Go biotech they think is Grey tech in Cookbook. Aware but probably not hands-on. Tillinghast Resonator, T-radiation and beasties it unveils. This is what they traded with MJ-12 to get a seat at the Big Table. Legacy of the Philadelphia Experiment. Really arcane human psych stuff. Not just through MJ-12. Might not be privy to OUTLOOK (compartmentalization) but had a piece of MK-ULTRA. Might not have OUTLOOK stuff derived from Cookbook. Intel via the Accord. Maybe not an uncensored report. Then again, since they have a foot in the door they might know more than they have been given. Remember, the ONI is the oldest intelligence organization in the US and has had more time to become a world unto themselves. Remember, right about the time CIA was trimming back and handing over the Family Jewels, ONI was regularly tapping Soviet underwater phone lines and briefing Reagan for his talks with Gorbachov. DELTA GREEN: Greys are Mi-Go constructs. The existence of the Accord. MJ-12 is dinking with Mi-Go tech and biotech. Amphibious humanoids exist and they want our women! Ghouls. Dreamlands. PARIAH hangs at a place called Club Apocalypse. He's probably from Outside. Some magic works. There are things from Outside. If you include the events in "Angel", "Patient Zero," "Night Rooms," "Tiger Air" etc. (feel free to add to the list), add: King in Yellow and Carcosa. Tillinghast Resonator, T-radiation and beasties it unveils. Tcho-Tcho (and split willies). Y'Golonac. Hounds of Tindalos Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:01 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Have you seen the productive afternoon I had at work? http://www.arsimagica.net/~vag/dg/murp/invite.png *sigh* if only I'd realised earlier that the pattern wasn't coming out straight... I think now that I have a copy of the pattern I might do it with a gold pen and a fountain pen on card, rather than just a printout. -- Tim _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jussi Marttila [velcrokf@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:23 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: Tim Betz >On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, The Lizard King wrote: > > > I think everyone is overestimating Lepus. The guy is good and knows >where > > most of the bodies are buried, but he is only as dangerous as the >resources > > he has at his beck and call. > >Without my books to check this up, but as I understand it, he is head of >security for MJ-12. If the sterring committee were to meet, he would be >in charge of making sure they were safe. He would hand pick the NRO Delta >boys who would guard the room. > >If DG were able to piece together enough decent evidence that they can >convince Lepus of the Mi-go grey connection and that the steering >committe needs purging, he can walk in to the meeting as it is underway >with his handpicked, loyal to him, soldiers and stage some sort of >Military Coup style takeover. Kill off the fanatics and the people who are >selling >humanity down the river for personal gain and try convince the others to >see the light. Ooh. I'm having a vision of Lepus' NRO Delta crew as the praetorian guard which stands aside to allow the emperor to be assassinated. Reading tip: I, Claudius. Should Lepus decide to clean up the committee, I would think he would even allow DG to do the actual purge, thus leaving him in a position where his hands aren't (visibly) bloody and he could go for leadership of what's left of the steering council. There would be some neat gaming material in here, I think. First a clandestine part where every member of the steering council is evaluated for future use (except for MJ-1 & MJ-2, they need to go by default). Then the bloody carnage which begins when the DG gunmen land their helicopter at the Country Club in light rain. Lepus steps forward and says: "All yours, gentlemen". Ooh. Now I know where my campaign will be going. Jussi Marttila This E-mail dedicated to G. Gordon Liddy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:19 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Mi-Go\Serpent Men connection In the course of studying up on all things reptilian I was looking up the Hopi legends of Lizard People. The Hopi, BTW, are descendants of the mysterious Anasazi people. Rather advanced among Native Americans, they were also builders of Pueblos. They believe that as a people, they migrated from a series of previously-extant "worlds," usually interpreted as "ages" or "epochs;" but these are also seen as subsequent cavern-worlds, each one lower than the next, each one eventually abandoned and destroyed in turn. This seems to link with K'n-Yan of the red- and blue-lit caverns. Well, the Serpent People also have a history in K'n-Yan, where they dabbled in biotech and created new life forms to serve them. According to Hopi legend, around 3,000 B.C. after a fire or meteor (or war?) nearly destroyed the Lizard People, they built three undergound cities along the Pacific coast. The capitol city was built under what is now Los Angeles, another was built under Mount Shasta. No one knows where the third one is. OK, so far we have Serpent People underground in Oklahoma in the multi-level city of K'n-Yan. They experimented with genetics and produced servitor races. They also, naturally, kept up with their sorcery. But, Serpent People didn't start out in K'n-Yan, they moved there from Valusia when their previous empire receded. This is not to say that there were no Serpent People already on the continent. Let's say that there were already Serpent People on the frontier, the empire of the Serpent People was at one time the dominant race on Earth and there is nothing that says they didn't have colonies and plenty of indications that they would. So, let's postulate a Serpent People colony in the American Southwest, and as the empire collapsed those that could moved to the frontier and took over K'n-Yan. The Lizard People (let's make that distinction; Serpent People from the old empire in K'n-Yan, New World Lizard People on the surface) on the surface got peppered with meteors or flying polyps or something and decided to make some bomb shelters, so they move west and do so. Now, let's look at some Serpent People on another continent. In India there are legends of the Nagas, a race of serpent-people or lizard-men who make their homes in two major underground cities (or civilizations) named Patala and Bhogavati. Bhogavati is said to be under the Himalayas. The Well of Sheshna in Benares (and read up on that city some time) is said to contain an entrance to Patala. The Nagas are described as a very advanced race, with a highly-developed technology. Now, here's where the gun starts smokin'. Nagas are said to abduct and interbreed with human beings, and this interbreeding has led to a wide variety of forms, ranging from completely reptilian to nearly human in appearance. It gets better. Legends say they fly disk-shaped aerial craft called "vimana." These craft are described at length in many ancient Vedic texts, including the Bhagivad-gita and the Ramayana. They are also said to possess "death rays." OK, ready? Newspaper accounts in the state of New Mexico in the years before the beginning of World War II indicated that the Germans were "all over" the state exploring caves and mines, buying up land, and engaging in other activities suggestive that they were preparing for something big. There is a very famous cave complex in New Mexico called Dulce. Heard of it? Now, Mi-Go have been here for awhile. They cultivate isolated groups of people to dink with and to provide protection for their mining operations. Since the Mi-Go arrived some time during the Jurassic period, the isolated groups of people they would have dealt with would include Serpent People. It's beginning to look as if the Grey facade was inspired by Nagas and their flying saucers, or Serpent People were working for Mi-Go and using Mi-Go equipment. Perhaps it also explains some other flying disks with swastikas on them. Greys could be clones of Naga\human hybrids. The glyphs in the Bucket might be Serpent tech rather than Mi-Go tech. How was that sirs? Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of david wienecke [dwienecke@usa.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:16 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within.] >There would be some neat gaming material in here, I think. First a >clandestine part where every member of the steering council is evaluated >for future use (except for MJ-1 & MJ-2, they need to go by default). >Then the bloody carnage which begins when the DG gunmen land their >helicopter at the Country Club in light rain. Lepus steps forward and >says: "All yours, gentlemen". Ooh. >Jussi Marttila Then of course there is the obligatory "One of the steering committee member found out about the hit, sent a vat grown look-alike to the meeting and is still out there somewhere plotting" twist. Dave W. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dan Allard [dan@jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Mi-Go\Serpent Men connection > > According to Hopi legend, around 3,000 B.C. after a fire or meteor (or > war?) nearly destroyed the Lizard People, they built three undergound cities > along the Pacific coast. The capitol city was built under what is now Los > Angeles, another was built under Mount Shasta. No one knows where the third > one is. In doing some gaming research on LA I found this interesting link, on the Los Angeles Public Library page of all places: http://www.lapl.org/central/urbanleg.html Scroll down to "The Lizard People" It's rather out of whack with the other "urban legends" on the page; come to think of it, not one thing on the page is an urban legend (only that one is a legend, and it's not exactly urban) dan _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 2:27 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/2/42056/2147 "Is your son a hacker?" Section headings include such gems as: 1. Has your son asked you to change ISPs? 2. Are you finding programs on your computer you don't remember installing? 3. Has your child asked for new hardware? 4. Does your child read hacking manuals? 7. Is your son becoming argumentative and suly in his social behavior? --8-- is a gem, and if you took it seriously for 15 seconds, it could make halfway decent DG material. ObDG: Seriously. His backstory for 8 _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me On 5 December 2001, "talaphid" said: >http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/2/42056/2147 > >"Is your son a hacker?" Not having, or ever having had, or likely to ever have, a son, I checked the above reference anyway. At that address, I found... a blank page! Perhaps this is because of the above situation with the son (or lack thereof)... Or possibly it is due to the evil AI hackers Osama bin Circam and Aardvark Ratnik hacking into the site and deleting all the data! Or the Fractals from (CLASSIFIED) got in there, and had all the 1s and 0s (but not the ls) for lunch! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:51 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me Greetings. >>http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/2/42056/2147 >> >>"Is your son a hacker?" > > Not having, or ever having had, or likely to ever have, a son, I > checked the above reference anyway. At that address, I found... a blank page! > > Perhaps this is because of the above situation with the son (or lack > thereof)... I found it, and I'm still seriously asking myself - this is a joke, right? They have this poll thingie by the page side Poll I'm scared of hackers because... They hack into NASA They steal things They are violent sociopaths They use amphetamines and speed They help Osama Bin Laden They're un-American They smell bad Tell me this is all a joke, please. Meanwhile, I'll seriously check out those "hacker operating systems". My gateway into computer piracy iawaits.... Davide Mana would be unable to hack a toaster Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me > >>http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/2/42056/2147 > >>"Is your son a hacker?" > > Not having, or ever having had, or likely to ever have, a son, I > > checked the above reference anyway. At that address, I found... a blank page! I've had a number of troubles accessing it, I've had the link a little while. It finally pulled up, for me, and wow. > I found it, and I'm still seriously asking myself - this is a joke, right? Alas. Both sides to this coin make for good cult/socio dealing, no? I feel the urge to respond to the poll items. > They steal things That would be kleptomaniacs, not hackers. > They are violent sociopaths This, as a poll option, is the same as a complex question fallacy, and this sort of association scares the bebeejus out of me. Reading stories where American "villagers" storm "the mad scientist's" lab and immediately kill, take a moment and hang him, or or or... And what if we are the sort of well informed, esoteric researching, slightly odd character that An Angry Mob would target? > They use amphetamines and speed Ravers. > They help Osama Bin Laden I remember a news story about some 14 or 15 year old kid who hacked India's nuclear research program. Not to build his own, mind you. He was indignant at the prospect they could be researching nuclear weapons while they had a large starving population. > They're un-American And so is anyone who disagrees with me! BURN THEM! > Meanwhile, I'll seriously check out those "hacker operating systems". Well, you know, those crazy Fins, they're Soviets in disguise. *talaphid-lite: Now in an equally ignorant version* _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/