From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:37 PM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] DG: One for the Green Box This little toy, as reported by Auntie, ought to be right up there in the useful gadgets section: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1692000/1692059.stm Personally, I would like to get my hands on one of these just for the entertainment value (although think of the havoc you could wreak by hiding one of these in a hospital.... all those pagers that suddenly go offline. Teach the bastard housestaff to bring live pagers and cell phones to my seminars!). Graeme -- graemep@immag.mcg.edu _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:47 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] DG: One for the Green Box Nice! here's another link: http://www.sesp.co.il/newjammer2.html I like the note at the end of the original link re: jamming police signals. Can see players having a field day with that... -----Original Message----- From: Graeme Price [mailto:graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:37 PM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] DG: One for the Green Box This little toy, as reported by Auntie, ought to be right up there in the useful gadgets section: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1692000/1692059.stm Personally, I would like to get my hands on one of these just for the entertainment value (although think of the havoc you could wreak by hiding one of these in a hospital.... all those pagers that suddenly go offline. Teach the bastard housestaff to bring live pagers and cell phones to my seminars!). Graeme _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: In NATURE today .... "NASA engages outside help for mission to Pluto" Evocative title!! I still have not given up on Pluto=Yuggoth The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] GRU SV-8, Post Cold War I had the following e-mailed to me by a friend. I'm not sure how reliable it is real-world wise, but its perfect for DG. --Mark ________________________________________ TV describes recruitment of Ukrainian mercenaries to fight in Africa Kiev ICTV Television in Russian 26 Nov 01 A Ukrainian commercial TV channel has broadcast a documentary about Ukrainian mercenaries fighting in Central Africa. According to the film, a worldwide network of illegal arms trade and human trafficking has been created by officers of the former Soviet Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GRU). The programme, filmed with the assistance of the Security Service of Ukraine, described how mercenaries are recruited and transported to Africa. The following are excerpts from the film entitled "No Man's Land" and broadcast by Ukrainian ICTV television on 26 November 2001: [Presenter Mark Hres] Central Africa supplied the world with black slaves until the middle of the 19th century. White traders bought them for rifles. Present-day African rulers demand combat aircraft and missiles and offer gold, diamonds and concessions in exchange. In addition to weapons they want people, white slaves of war who are called mercenaries. [Unidentified correspondent] Citizens of CIS states participate in hostilities on the territory of Congo, Sierra-Leone, Angola, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti and Sudan. There are about 10,000 of them. Their main speciality in operating and maintaining fighter planes and helicopters, armoured vehicles, rockets and anti-aircraft missile systems. Military experts arrive in conflict areas illegally. They are not protected by international conventions on the treatment of POWs. A mercenary can be instantly executed if captured. On their return, they can be brought to justice under Ukrainian law. The Ukrainian Criminal Code provides for six to 10 years in prison for such actions. [Passage omitted: Hres says that former officers who lost their jobs because of army cuts are forced into hired work by poverty and unemployment; former mercenary's wife, speaking to camera with her face disguised, says the same] [Hres] Since the mid-1990s, several companies involved in illegal arms trade with Third World countries and recruitment of mercenaries have been permanently working in the CIS. [Unidentified officer of the Security Service of Ukraine, speaking to camera in disguise] In 1997, the Slovak firm Joy Slovakia [as heard] began actively operating in Ukraine through its representatives. It had no official representation in Ukraine, but sent in its emissaries. It also had its representatives in Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, UAE and Congo. The recruiters introduced themselves as government officials so that former officers could trust them and believe that everything was legal. In many cases they acted on behalf of the Defence Ministry, the Security Service of Ukraine or local military registration and enlistment offices. [Hres] In August 1997, one Col Tarasenko met five of his former colleagues, jobless helicopter pilots, at a bus stop one kilometre off the military compound. [Passage omitted: one of the five, speaking off camera, says that he was offered a three-month contract for working in Africa as an instructor pilot for 5,000 dollars per month] A representative of Joy Slovakia, Kyrgyz general Rashid Urazmatov, came to the meeting with Tarasenko. The pilots asked him to show the terms of the contract. He showed them the documents in which it was written that they would repair helicopters and train local pilots. The papers did not contain a word about participation in combat action. [Passage omitted: another group of former pilots was hired in another military base at the same time] I am standing outside the building of the Ukrainian Defence Ministry. It is strange, but future mercenaries were given money, tickets to Moscow, documents and final instructions right here, near the Ministry's gate. Who knows, maybe it was not a mere coincidence? The instructions were short and clear. In Moscow, the mercenaries would be met and escorted to a secret flat. When the entire group got together, they would fly to Tashkent or Bishkek. After several days in barracks, they would be taken to a military airfield. [Former mercenary, off camera] The Il-86 [cargo plane] carrying us and a disassembled Mi-24 helicopter on board took off in Tashkent and landed in Termez. In Termez we underwent passport control. [Correspondent, off camera] Did they put visas in your passports? [Former mercenary] What visas are you talking about? We did not even leave the plane. [Hres] The absence of visas in passports was a key point. This made it very difficult to establish the fact of a suspect's participation in military actions in a foreign country. According to his papers, he never left Ukraine. [Former mercenary] The flight was very long. We landed for refuelling somewhere, presumably not far from Cairo, then took off again and eventually arrived in Point-Noire. [Hres] In 1997 the methods of transporting mercenaries were not as perfect as now. Today they travel through Abu-Dhabi. [Passage omitted: former mercenary says that he and his colleagues were met in Congo by some people of Kyrgyz origin who told them that they would have to participate in combat actions; they were paid 5,000 dollars per month plus 5,000 dollars for each mission; that they had to fly very old helicopters presumably bought from Central Asian countries; that he was satisfied with living conditions at the military base; presenter's remarks about political instability in Africa; mercenaries from the CIS often fight on both sides; former missile engineer from Kiev says that in 1998 he was recruited to Ethiopia by an Israel-based firm; former mercenaries speak about their adventures] These organizations can easily push planeloads of weapons and people without passports around the world. Where did they come from? The answer is simple. After the collapse of the USSR its powerful military intelligence, GRU, was practically out of work. Its agents scattered over dozens of countries lived in permanent fear of being unmasked, but time passed and nobody came to detain them. A giant mechanism did not stay idle for long. Experienced spies began offering their services to various military regimes and opposition groups. They began with arms trade. The highest demand for Soviet weapons was in Africa. They [ Africans] bought everything, even decommissioned military hardware. While former peasants could be taught to use Kalashnikovs [assault rifles], they were absolutely unfit to operate combat aircraft or missile launchers. [Passage omitted: former mercenary tells more African stories, says local soldiers were lazy] African rulers demanded specialists in addition to weapons, while in the former Soviet Union there were dozens of thousands of jobless officers. The law prescribes punishment for recruiting mercenaries or acting as a mercenary, but the appropriate charges are almost never brought because it is too difficult to collect evidence. The security services of CIS states could only helplessly watch former GRU officers creating a network to export military servicemen. Wars in Zaire, Angola, Congo, Liberia, Djibouti, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Sierra-Leone made sure the conveyer belt never stopped. [Omitted: mercenary wages recently dropped to 1,500 dollars or even 900 dollars per month because of excessive supply; the characters of the film escaped prosecution in Ukraine for lack of evidence] In 1998, the activity of Joy Slovakia and several other recruiting agencies in Ukraine was cut short. [Security Service officer, speaking to camera in disguise] Its general director, Aleksandr Raulevich Islamov, was banned from Ukraine for five years. This ban will expire in 2003. Two foreigners, the above-mentioned Islamov and Kyrgyz general Rashid Tursunovich Urazmatov were banned from entering Ukraine for their involvement in recruiting mercenaries. [Omitted: some former mercenaries now live in poverty] [Hres] In the last two years, the Security Service of Ukraine stopped nearly 200 people [mercenaries] from going abroad. [Omitted: some former mercenaries are recruiting new ones] [Former mercenary's wife, speaking to camera in disguise] I know how he makes money. He tells me a lot, but I won't talk. [Hres] According to latest information, a group of helicopter pilots from the Poltava garrison recently appeared in Angola. [Passage omitted: general remarks about hard life in the Ukrainian military] [Video shows African troops] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:25 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" > I found it, and I'm still seriously asking myself - this is a joke, right? Sure. All of the links pretty much nail it down. But it's best to open them in a separate window, because the Adequacy.org site is suh-looooow. A classic case of being too-hip-for-the-room. That guy is too-hip-for-the-continent. The fact that it reads like the sort of panicky misinformed prose that is usually reserved for warnings about Bart Simpson lick&stick LSD tattoos sells it admirably. But he maintains a rational facade by eschewing INAPPROPRIATE CAPITALS and numerous exclamation points!!!!!!!! Just look at all of those replies. So many earnest point-by-point refutations. Um, the link "Soviet computer hacker" brings up http://www.goldeneye.com/julian/boris.html , picture and profile of Boris Grishenko (Alan Cummings) from "Goldeneye." Now, I suppose that you could argue that Dad got that link while scrubbing his son's bookmarks, but then we are through the Looking Glass. Real people are not that unintentionally funny. "Linyos Torovoltos" is the kicker. "They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, using the "mp3" program." Classic. Admittedly, irony doesn't travel well. I bristled a bit when Davide warned me away from irony (my favorite "ny." I've cut down on gluttony and misogyny in order to make room for more irony) in contributing to the DGML FAQ, but this has really driven the point home. Look at all of those replies. People read it closely enough to deconstruct it a line at a time in order to refute it, and still didn't realize that it was a joke. And English is their native language. In the sequel to "Paradise Lost," Damien Echols muses on Death Row that he didn't take the charges seriously enough when he was first accused. He said he thought the situation was ridiculous and played up his eccentricities as a hoot for the cameras while waiting for the authorities to come to their senses. Consequently he lived up to their expectations and ended up providing them with more "evidence" against himself. I used to have pages from The Onion outside my office for people to read while waiting for me to get off the phone. I was naive enough to be amazed at how many people had to ask me if they were "real." I'm starting to understand the deeper meaning to the phrase "sense of humor." I'm becoming convinced that there are more people out there that require some sort of label or warning for the presence of humor than you'd suspect. Most of the time the show is labeled Comedy so they know nothing is to be taken seriously, but without a program they are lost. Imagine them scratching their heads at "Spinal Tap" if they came upon it without notes -- they'd think they were watching a documentary. To them all humor is a riddle ("oh, that's funny because...") requiring a sort of left brain working through the equation (situation + setup + punchline= ha ha ha). They need to know that it is meant to be funny for it to be funny to them. Luckily, the overwhelming majority of entertainment and interactions state their intent up front. This is not to say that everyone that was taken in is humor-impaired. Another sad fact of the primate existence is a notable lack of humor about things they care about. Don't expect someone who's brother died from an overdose to see any humor in "Trainspotting." I pick up traces of unhappy encounters with parents in some of the replies. The other theme is actually (somewhat) relevant to DG, and that is the tendency to believe in the stupidity of those that disagree with you. Racism= stupid, top Nazis weren't stupid, ergo they weren't racists but canny manipulators. Of course Werner von Braun wasn't anti-Semitic, he was a scientist. You can't hold anti-Semitism and science in your head at the same time, because anti-Semitism is *stupid* and the science would flush it away. Now, if he was a *bad* scientist maybe I could buy that anti-Semitism thing, they were Nazis after all. Mark McFadden BTW, I have no knowledge of von Braun's opinions about Jews. I'm not sure you could get any accurate information after PAPERCLIP rewrote history. I want him to be a canny manipulator just to keep the uplifting finale to "October Sky" intact. I also have this slap-happy optimism that one of the signs of a first-rate mind is the ability to change your opinions when given more information, but that's probably naive. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me The response is slow, but reading all the replies to the original post is an education in the human condition, at least on the Internet. Look at the time and verbiage spent on tearing the fictional parent apart. Posts begin with a rational deconstruction of the facts he got wrong, but as the lines progress CAPITOLS accumulate, and exclamation points!!!!!!!! abound. Soon they are devoting lines to calling him a FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and recommending that he be flushed from the gene pool, or shot in the head. Then they hope that God will save poor Cindy and Peter from that awful man before their dreams are crushed by his small-minded ways. I think there are a lot of folks out there in desperate need of a hug. ;-) Then there is the sub thread obsessing on his misogyny in addressing it to parents with sons, and devoting a lot of strident time to cataloguing the abilities of women with computers. Which are of course answered with sniping from the Peanut Gallery about the dearth of women in programming, followed by more stridency peppered by quick comments that everyone is a FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for not getting the joke. These are usually answered with the observation that there is nothing funny about sexism. Then we're back to what a clueless, *dangerous* fanatic that FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't know shit about computers is. And AOL sucks. And people like that should be shot in the head, but not with a BFG because THERE'S NO SUCH THING YOU FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People devote a lengthy paragraph analyzing the myriad ways in which he is a hopelessly moronic Luddite and troglodyte for thinking that "mp3" will steal songs out of his stereo. Did you connect any wires between your computer and stereo you FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Maybe you did, because you're a FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's pretend that some of the most bombastic commentary is really more cool people playing up the joke with razor-sharp satire of the usual Internet commentary. What the hell, I'm generous. But that leaves the other 90% that really feel that way and spend their lives looking for the sort of thing that calls for them to anonymously (usually anonymously) vent their spleens and add their valuable input to the mix. Someday, they will vote. They will drive cars and enlist in the military, buy handguns and recreational vehicles. Don't count on their apathy to even things out; they have an axe to grind and sure as shit will vote for whatever they perceive as the lesser of two evils just to show that other FUCKING MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they mean business. Think about that sad observation. Let's say over 90% of the people that read the original message felt something or other, but didn't feel compelled to respond. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter what they think about it, because most of them don't "vote." They don't feel strongly enough about it to bother with responding. This leaves the dialogue to the zealots. "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." Sounds like a program for the Endtimes. Mark McFadden Kinda puts those pisseramas about the MiB being mean to newbies in perspective, dunnit? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Mi-Go\Serpent Men connection > > How was that sirs? Erich von Daniken would be proud : ) Thanks for the info! J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:44 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: In NATURE today .... On 5 December 2001, Glove Cleaner "Andy Robertson" reported: >"NASA engages outside help for mission to Pluto" > >Evocative title!! I still have not given up on Pluto=Yuggoth This opens a new dimension (or several in the "Grey War"! "In an address at Cape Canaveral, shortly following the launch of Space Shuttle 'Endeavor', the President said (in part): '...And we must remember that not all terrorists come from our planet, and not all are Human! 'I know it is difficult for many to believe, but, in the last century, beings from Pluto observed our world and our activities, spying on us as though they were voyeurs peeping through a keyhole, or biologists studying stem cells under a microscope. They have studied us, and have cast covetous eyes upon our globe... 'These alien terrorists -- the 'Greys', as they call themselves -- have ruthlessly kidnapped and mutilated countless US citizens and domestic animals in their ruthless assault upon America. Their ships have overflown our airspace without permission, and have paid no heed to the instructions of Air Traffic Control, or communications from the Defense Department. They have attemped to illegally immigrate to our great nation at Roswell and elsewhere. We have evidence that they illegally invaded America in 1938, in Grover's Mill, New Jersey, and that they invaded our foremost ally, Great Britain, in the closing years of the 19th Century. In these invasions, they freely used weapons of mass destruction. Like the evil men who destroyed the World Trade Center and part of the Pentagon, they have shown they have no respect for the lives of defenseless civilians... 'I hope these aliens are listening to my words now, because I tell them -- as I tell every one of you -- that we will no longer tolerate such actions. We have declared war on terrorism, and this does not mean simply terrorism originating on Earth! 'There are those among us who have made 'accomodations' with these alien terrorists, collaborating with the would-be conquerors for temporary gain. This will no longer be tolerated. 'Today, I am ordering the establishment of an Office of Homeworld Security, to be known also as 'Delta Green' and 'X-Com'. This will be headed by Dr. Joseph Camp, an authority in the field, and will have the highest priority on equipment and personnel to prosecute this new war. They will have the authority to set up military tribunals to try captured aliens for crimes against Earth civilization. Civil libertarians should not be unduly concerned about this -- not only is this an extraordinary measure taken in time of extraordinary emergency, but these special tribunals will only concern themselves with space aliens committing acts of aggression against the citizens of our Earth... 'I call upon all nations to support America in this new battle, just as they have supported us in our quest for justice in Afghanistan! It will not be a short war, or an inexpensive one, and we must accept that it will not be without casualties, but it will end in the triumph of Earth over the alien terrorist menace. 'One day, historians will look back on December 5, 2001, and be able to say that, this day, the liberation of the Solar System began!'" Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com P.S.: Just kidding, above. The President was not actually at the Cape to watch the Shuttle launch... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Greg Muir [gregmuir@adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:35 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Re: In NATURE today .... > > 'One day, historians will look back on December 5, 2001, and > be able to > say that, this day, the liberation of the Solar System began!'" > > Michael Layne > DGGF#688 > theherald@hotmail.com > > P.S.: Just kidding, above. The President was not actually at the Cape to > watch the Shuttle launch... > You had me going there for a second. :) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Anarchy [Anarchy@agentsofchaos.org] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me ----- Original Message ----- From: "talaphid" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me > "Is your son a hacker?" If my son follows me to the Hacker meetings at the Citicorp building, I'd REALLY know. But that article was good for a laugh at least. ;) Scott / Anarchy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: In NATURE today .... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Layne" > > "In an address at Cape Canaveral, shortly following the launch of Space > Shuttle 'Endeavor', the President said (in part): > > '...And we must remember that not all terrorists come from our planet, > and not all are Human! Soon afterwards thousands of illegal aliens were quietly moved to 23 REX84 detention centers and held incommunicado. No names or figures have been released, though in a press conference John Ashcroft later said "Hey, they're aliens. You're not an alien lover are you?" The INS has been given carte blanche to search the homes, vehicles, possessions and body cavities of any suspected aliens. "It feels good to be probing those little bastards for a change," said Border Patrol officer Billy Bob Bobilly. Across the land rural and trailer park residents breathed simultaneous sighs of relief, feeling their nether parts were safe for the first time since Roswell. Mobs of former abductees took to the streets to burn effigies of Steven Spielberg and Shwag novelties. A planned retrospective of the paintings of Margaret and Walter Keane was cancelled. "I think we'll look for subjects with smaller eyes instead," said Robert Huntington of the prestigious "Awwwww, Isn't That Cuuuute?" galleries. In a related story, newspapers have pulled the daily "Love Is" cartoons for the duration. At a press conference in Hollywood, Sony Pictures announced that John Milius would be at the helm of a reworking of the ending of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" for a Extra Special Edition Different Director's Cut. They would not confirm rumors that the new scenes would star Steven Seagal, Dolph Lundgren, "Hulk" Hogan, Christopher Lambert and Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura. Universal responded with the announcement of the production of E.T. II: The Revenge starring Freddie Prinz Jr., Jennifer Love Hewitt and the voice of Robert Englund as E.T.. Steven Spielberg was unavailable for comment, but is believed to be hiding in the subterranean facilities of the Skywalker Ranch in the hills outside Marin. Whamm-o has announced the discontinuation of the Frisbee (TM) line of toys, and bakers across the country have switched to square pie pans. Anime fans have voiced concerns about being mistaken for alien sympathizers. "I was wearing, like, a Speed Racer T-shirt? And, like, these people were all ooooooo and stuff? And it was getting all, you know, intense? And so I, you know, got out of there? I don't think the eyes are that big. I think he looks like Charlie Sheen," said a teen that would prefer to remain nameless because of his fear of reprisals against his parents, Fred and Norma Hutchins of Glendale, CA. Charles (formerly Charlie) Sheen was unavailable for comment, and is believed to be hiding in the subterranean facilities of Hollywood Madame Heidi Fleiss in the Los Feliz hills. Not all Alien-Americans have been intimidated by recent events and the backlash. Retired Warner Bros. star Marvin T. Martian says that he will not be changing his routine, which luckily includes going everywhere armed with a powerful energy weapon. "I am always e-quipped with my Lin-e-ar Sub-Atomic Dis-rupting Oblit-or-a-tor. Isn't that love-ly? Hmmmmm?" Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:47 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me There's some amusing articles on the page along with this one - and given that the description they gave of hackers is really a description of a Raver, I tend to think it's a joke. But then, I thought Demon: the Fallen was a joke. So what do I know? J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@markelintl.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:05 AM To: 'theblackseal-writers-forum@yahoogroups.com'; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] RE: [TBSWF] Re: Op EERIE 2: Through the Bookcase jon.turner wrote: > Sorry, but I just had to post the name of my mate's CoC in > Vietnam scenario: "Cthulhu by Arclight..." Is it on the web? Is there a URL? Enquiring minds most know and compare against Davide's excellent but unfinished 'Nam efforts. Davide - is Across the Wire on hold temporarily or indefinitely? Is there going to be more good stuff? AFC _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:50 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: In NATURE today .... re: The Layne and McFadden Show--Agent Christopher, I think that's one for Section 8! Thanks guys. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Mi-Go\Serpent Men connection From: "The Lizard King" > In the course of studying up on all things reptilian I was looking up the > Hopi legends of Lizard People. [much else snipped] Very nice. This came just after I got a flash idea that somebody probably brought up on the list before, and I've simply forgotten-- In _The Annotated HP Lovecraft_, editor ST Joshi makes the following observation in a footnote on p193: "Lovecraft himself was notoriously sensitive to cold, although the causes for his ailment are not well understood. He was uncomfortable when the temperature dropped below 70 [degrees F], and would lose consciousness in temperatures below 20 [degrees F]." Of course, this is something I've known for a long time, but only on reading that last night did I make the connection: HPL was a Lizard Man! For more HPL conspiracy theories, see here (you'll need to be a Pyramid subscriber): http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/article.cgi?1017 Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 8:04 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] RE: [TBSWF] Re: Op EERIE 2: Through the Bookcase Cheers. >Is it on the web? Is there a URL? Enquiring minds most know and compare >against Davide's excellent but unfinished 'Nam efforts. >Davide - is Across the Wire on hold temporarily or indefinitely? Is there >going to be more good stuff? Across the Fence is on temporary hold, and possibly I'll be able to play another game during the Christmas period (I've this idea about New Year in Na Thrang). For the moment, anyway, nothing's gonna go up on the web for a while. Sorry. Davide Mana currently typing players handout on a defective Word program Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Bill Nichols [themaninawhitecar@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:51 AM To: Delta Green List Subject: [DG] John Nash movie Hey all: A movie coming out later this month may be of interest. "A Beautiful Mind" is based on a biography of John Nash, the mathematician who founded the game theory of economics. Having suffered through trying to learn just what the hell a "Nash equilibrium" is, I for one look forward to seeing it. ObDG? Hmmm, brilliant mathematician, who can understand concepts no one else can, descends into madness, specifically paranoid schizophrenia. "Delusions" involving vast conspiracies and persecution. I think we need no more. Here's some links: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Cinema/1501/maxcrowe_beautifulmind.html http://www.murphsplace.com/crowe/mind/mind.html Here's one about the book the movie is based on: http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1998/06/29sneaks.html I especially like the quote about "'abstract powers from outer space, or perhaps it was foreign governments, were communicating with him' through the newspaper." Ah, just what some people have long suspected about the New York Times. Bill __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:21 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] John Nash movie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Nichols" > I especially like the quote about "'abstract > powers from outer space, or perhaps it was > foreign governments, were communicating with him' > through the newspaper." Ah, just what some > people have long suspected about the New York > Times. Ah, he saw the fnords did he? People who see the fnords should stay away from the Times crossword puzzle. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dan Allard [dan@jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:53 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me > Poll > I'm scared of hackers because... > They hack into NASA > They steal things > They are violent sociopaths > They use amphetamines and speed > They help Osama Bin Laden > They're un-American > They smell bad > > Tell me this is all a joke, please. Me, I'm just hoping someone hacked into the site and put that up... dan _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:51 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. Living proof that Crack doesn't smoke itself, David Farnell wrote: >Actually, I like the idea of Lepus executing half of the Steering Committee >so much, my imagination went off on how to get the players in on it I don't imagine that there will be anything like a mass execution at all. The only member of the Steering Committee that needs to be taken down by armed assault is Justin Kroft. It's a dramatic necessity that Kroft go down like a James Bond villain, with a elite strike force invading his secret underground lair. Dr. Ringwood, Dr. Lounds, Dr. Correlo and LT GEN Deerhausen will be removed by more subtle means: poisoning, institutionalization, forced resignation due to unrelated incidents, etc. The key to this sort of thematic development isn't so much a short burst of catastrophic violence, but a sinister and gradual encroachment upon Justin Kroft. Despair and creeping paranoia are the watchwords to the downfall of Majestic. After all, we need to minimize our organization's DELTA GUNZ reputation. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:58 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: Tim Betz >Unfortunately there isn't much room to involve the players in this... If you co-op the OUTLOOK Group, who psychologically screen NRO DELTA Agents, then it becomes possible to infiltrate NRO DELTA with shooters loyal to Delta Green. An excellent start for people who want to be part of the operations side of an official, sanctioned Delta Green. It is these sorts of possibilities that makes Dr. Yrjo "defection" so tasty to Delta Green. Regardless of whether or not Yrjo is earnest or not, DG HAS to take the chance at potentially infiltrating Majestic in this fashion. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [The 7th Chemical] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: Tim Betz >> Ah, MJ-12 probably has some sort of sniffer tech to defeat shapeshifters. > >I don't know they necessarily would, given that they're largely Mythos >unaware. In a way they're sort of bizarre Mythos script kiddies, they have >these cool toys for breaking the laws of the physics, but they don't know >how or why these tools do what they do. >I can think of anything they've come across that would lead them to take >these sort of precautions, and if they did, if anyone has the knowledge >required to circumvent it, it's Lepus :) Given MJ-12 Project DELPHI's Sub-Project ARCHINT, Lepus' mythos experience, and Delta Green sniffing around Majestic activities (and vice-versa), it would seem only a matter of time before Majestic became "mythos-aware". The only thing stopping it so far is the Mi-Go's policy of keeping Majestic in the dark regarding Mythos matters and Justin Kroft's quashing of anything that might jeopardize his wealth and power. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:36 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > The key to this sort of thematic development isn't so much a short burst > of catastrophic violence, but a sinister and gradual encroachment upon > Justin Kroft. Despair and creeping paranoia are the watchwords to the > downfall of Majestic. After all, we need to minimize our organization's > DELTA GUNZ reputation. Further, the bio of Lepus in the sourcebook and his depiction in Pagan fiction doesn't indicate that he would ever try for the top spot. Lepus is Security and he appears to be satisfied with that. He might be a sociopathic monster, but he knows what he is good at and knows his limitations. The choices in tactics boil down to: Chop Kroft's legs out from under him by going for the others first, get him holed up in his bunker with no support. or Go for the head shot and take out Kroft cleanly, then clean up the rest with administrative maneuvers. Actually, I like a combination. Have a face-to-face meeting of all the Steering Committee members. Everyone but Kroft has been previously briefed with their own personal file gathered by the firm of Soze & Kobayashi detailing the myriad ways in which they have been placed in check, with golden parachutes and alternative retirement plans presented as carrot and stick. 8x10 glossies of the remains of people opting for the alternative retirement plans should be included. Back, and to the left. The meeting is called to order and the minutes are read. The first new business is a proposal by Mr. Lepus. Lepus does pretty much what he did to get the Steering Committee's attention in the first place. Nice grouping. Hmmm. The second piece of new business is choosing a new chairman. Is there a motion to choose whoever walks through that door next? Second? All in favor? Opposed? Motion is carried. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > > Given MJ-12 Project DELPHI's Sub-Project ARCHINT, Lepus' mythos > experience, and Delta Green sniffing around Majestic activities (and > vice-versa), it would seem only a matter of time before Majestic became > "mythos-aware". The only thing stopping it so far is the Mi-Go's policy > of keeping Majestic in the dark regarding Mythos matters and Justin > Kroft's quashing of anything that might jeopardize his wealth and power. Good analysis, but I think I'd make a distinction between mythos-aware and Mythos-Aware. The Mi-Go appear to do more than keep Majestic in the dark, they get proactive and make sure that whatever is seen is interpreted to suit their purposes. DG already saw what's behind the Grey mask, they didn't believe in little gray men from the git-go. Majestic has only seen everything through a Grey interpretation. ARCHINT would therefore be interpreted in a Chariots of the Gods model. No godlike beings from Outside in their philosophy. Ghouls? Alien parasitic, uh, virus that changes metabolism. Haven't you seen vampires in Marvel Comics, or seen "The Omega Man?" I don't know why they make such a big deal out of this "Dreamlands" stuff. It's just dreams, and I don't remember mine. Magic? Get real, it's physics we don't have the math for yet. Gods don't exist, it's axiomatic. Don't you recognize *symbolism* to fool the ignorant superstitious masses in the ignorant superstitious past? Deep Ones? Obviously another alien race. We need more funding. Unlike the sexless Greys that are pure intellect and therefore peaceful since they are free of all those sticky bodily functions that disrupt rational thought, those Amphibious Humanoids rut and are therefore out to pollute and impurify our precious bodily fluids. PARIAH? Good man. Very presidential. Met him at the Bohemian Grove. Our sort, if you know what I mean. You don't? Oh, that's right, you're not a member. As for Lepus, what do you expect from a cracker that never went to an Academy or any other proper school? He was an *enlisted man*. But he is useful since he knows his place. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:00 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. At 10:36 AM 12/6/2001 -0800, The Lizard King wrote: > Further, the bio of Lepus in the sourcebook and his depiction in Pagan >fiction doesn't indicate that he would ever try for the top spot. From that bio: "[Lepus] privately hopes that a fight with Delta Green will give him the prestige he needs to replace Ross as Project GARNET's director." Lepus is a player. If DG doesn't offer him a better deal and subvert him, then he will have to be neutralized. I find it interesting that folks now want to move DELTA GREEN from being about a ragtag conspiracy to turning them into "Men in Black vs. the Mythos." I'm not saying this is bad - whatever floats your boat - but to do so seriously changes the essential nature of DELTA GREEN. For me, it destroys the appeal of the game, from X-Files/James Ellroy conspiracy to James Bond/Tom Clancy political thriller, as well as cripples many of the game balance issues that so many vanilla CoC'ers have criticized DELTA GREEN unfairly for - that the PC's can just call in a SEAL team and airstrikes when they find the Deep One village. If DG becomes official, they may still have to play in secret, but they'll certainly have resources far beyond what they would have before. More down-to-earth threats like Tong Shugoran, the Skoptsi, the Karotechia, and maybe even PISCES wouldn't stand much chance against DG flying in to save the day from their helifortress, Tillinghast Resonator blasters blazing. Maybe things won't be that ridiculous, but it would make the game farther removed from reality, which, for me, makes the essential suspension of disbelief harder, turns the feel more far-fetched, and ruins whatever horror might have been possible. You might as well be playing GURPS Black Ops with slightly harder-to-kill targets. But if DELTA GREEN stays the same, it'll get stagnant (maybe it already has), and it needs something like this evolve. I would just hope that the basic feel of DELTA GREEN - gritty realism, ultraviolence instead of action-film violence, and basic Lovecraftian loneliness - remain. And beyond all this, it's interesting from a metagame perspective that we all wanted to play the whistleblowers in the postmodern '90s, and now we want to play the jackbooted thugs in postmillenial 00's. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:25 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. The Lizard King was GOING to make sense, but then he got high, but then he got high... then he got high: > DG already saw what's behind the Grey mask, they didn't believe in little >gray men from the git-go. Majestic has only seen everything through a Grey >interpretation. ARCHINT would therefore be interpreted in a Chariots of the >Gods model. No godlike beings from Outside in their philosophy. This changes when Dr. Jensen Wu of the American Museum of Natural History is tapped by the OUTLOOK Group to head Sub-Project ARCHINT. More on that later... > Ghouls? Alien parasitic, uh, virus that changes metabolism. Haven't you >seen vampires in Marvel Comics, or seen "The Omega Man?" I don't know why >they make such a big deal out of this "Dreamlands" stuff. It's just dreams, >and I don't remember mine. When I finish my Project PANDORA stuff, which involves the STAR GATE remote viewing project, Psychotronic Weaponry, N-Space Resonators, HAARP, the OUTLOOK Group, MKULTRA, The Crystal Matrix, Psionic Gestalts and the INVISIBLE Global Overmind, the Brotherhood of the Yellow Sign, Blue Litten Kn'Yan, Carcosa, the Dreamlands, and the Heralds of Hypnos... this "Dreamlands Stuff" will become much more important. It will probably take effect after Majestic is disbanded and Delta Green is once again an official government agency. The Man in Black is : Just Saying No. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:58 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] GRU SV-8, Post Cold War --- ElLocoToro@aol.com schrieb: > I had the following e-mailed to me by a friend. I'm > not sure how reliable it > is real-world wise, but its perfect for DG. > TV describes recruitment of Ukrainian > mercenaries to fight in Africa very probable. except for waiting úntil they come to france, that´s exactly where the french foreign legion nowadays get´s their recruits. trained, grateful for low money and not as spoiled as those westerners. festus __________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510. Verrücktes Design! Toller Sound! Entdecke und gewinne es auf http://de.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ Gewinnspiel endet am 16. Dezember 2001. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 2:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: Gil Trevizo >I find it interesting that folks now want to move DELTA GREEN from being >about a ragtag conspiracy to turning them into "Men in Black vs. the >Mythos." I'm not saying this is bad - whatever floats your boat - but to >do so seriously changes the essential nature of DELTA GREEN. This is exactly what a good "epic" roleplaying campaign does. It alters the Status Quo, or at the very least, threatens to do so in a major way. > For me, it >destroys the appeal of the game, from X-Files/James Ellroy conspiracy to >James Bond/Tom Clancy political thriller, I'd say there's a long way between James Bond and Tom Clancy. But regardless of that, Thrilling Politics is not an impossibility for the current unofficial Delta Green. What do you think being investigated by the United States Senate Sub-Committee on Intelligence is? What do you think guys like Agent ERNIE (Paul MacLester, Special Assistant to the President for National Security) or Lisa Simpson (Asst. US Attorney) do? They certainly don't go out and spy on cultists at 0'Dark-Hundred Hours, shooting and looting when the flare goes up... It's simply a difference in Gamemastering styles. I think Delta Green could use a shift in gears. It's been nearly seven years since initial publication, and I think Delta Green is getting a little bit stale. Even the creators seem to have moved on to other projects (Unseen Masters, GODLIKE, Our Darkest Hour, etc). My big fear is that will turn into some sort of self-indulgent Meta-Game crap like White Wolf likes to put out. The feel that you MUST immediately return Delta Green to an official status in your game is not what I want. I want a campaign outline of how the DGML would do it. But it makes perfect sense for A-Cell to move towards a return to official status. It's exactly what's needed to effectively combat international threats like the Cult of Trancendance, Severn Aerospace, and the Black Brotherhood. It a logical progression of the history, allowing for a defeated Majestic and a well-maintained bulwark against the Mythos. > as well as cripples many of the >game balance issues that so many vanilla CoC'ers have criticized DELTA >GREEN unfairly for - that the PC's can just call in a SEAL team and >airstrikes when they find the Deep One village. I disagree. The importance of Secrecy forgoes this sort of Cowboy Operation. Clandestine airstrikes are a logistical impossiblity, and SEAL teams are much too high profile in the modern age. Blowing Things Up Real Good might be how things were handled in the 1950-1994 period, but Delta Green is unlikely to return to those tactics overnight. Sending in a US Navy SEAL Team with Naval Aviators "dropping bombs on their moms" will only result in a swift return to unofficial status for the official Delta Green. > If DG becomes official, >they may still have to play in secret, but they'll certainly have resources >far beyond what they would have before. More down-to-earth threats like >Tong Shugoran, the Skoptsi, the Karotechia, and maybe even PISCES wouldn't >stand much chance against DG flying in to save the day from their >helifortress, Tillinghast Resonator blasters blazing. My assumption is that these threats will have been dealt or are in the final stages of being dealt with by the time the GREY WAR gets into full swing. EMERALD HAMMER presupposes that the Karotechia lasts for exactly ONE campaign after all. The Skoptsi always seemed like a single adventure threat to me, at least their main compound seemed that way. The tracking down of survivors and fallout from the initial raid would make for a nice mini-campaign. As for Tong Shugoran, they are part of a larger conspiracy of Organized Crime, Government Corruption, Biotechnology Corporations, and Mythos Worship that would make an excellent challenge for an up and coming Official Delta Green to cut it's teeth on... I can see Die Lebenstentoten of the Columbian Cocaine Cartel insinuating themselves into the Bolivian La Corporation as part of EMERALD HAMMER's aftermath. I can see New World Industries using Tiger Transit as part of their protomatter distribution network (part of the ANTARCTIC CONSPIRACY). I can see Washington insiders supporting Tiger Transit because of their membership in Cthulhu Cults such as the Black Brotherhood, or simply because they're corrupt. If you go along with my theory that N-Space has something to do with the Hounds of Tindalos, then you can throw Project RAINBOW into the mix as well.. > Maybe things won't >be that ridiculous, but it would make the game farther removed from >reality, which, for me, makes the essential suspension of disbelief harder, >turns the feel more far-fetched, and ruins whatever horror might have been >possible. You might as well be playing GURPS Black Ops with slightly >harder-to-kill targets. I think wide-ranging political ramifications of Clandestine Operations adds an extra layer to the conspiracy, rather than stripping anything away. The biggest difference is that with a return to official status, Delta Green has much more to lose. In the 21st Century, the stakes are higher, the game takes on greater importance, and the repercussions of failure much more catastrophic. Actual Operations will probably remain essentially unchanged. Equipment might be a little more standardized, but since everything is Clandestine, the feel of "As always, should you or any of your DG Force be caught or killed, the Director will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This recording will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, MIB." Plausible Deniability becomes your catchphrase. Just because you work for an official government agency doesn't mean you get unlimited resources or even support. After all, most of Delta Green's CURRENT agents work for official government agencies, and their resources are far from unlimited. Half-hearted commitment and token support of important missions will gradually insinuate themselves into DG missions. As administrative overhead grows and Delta Green becomes more top-heavy, with less shooters and more paper-pushers, bureaucratic rivalries will develop. You'd have a Cowboy faction which wants to slash and burn everything, an Analyst faction that shrinks from decisive action, and a Political Faction that spends most of it's time jockeying for position. The biggest problem of the New Delta Green could be creeping corruption as a faction which desires exploitation of the mythos gains momentum. >And beyond all this, it's interesting from a metagame perspective that we >all wanted to play the whistleblowers in the postmodern '90s, and now we >want to play the jackbooted thugs in postmillenial 00's. Four legs good, two legs bad... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gil Trevizo" > But if DELTA GREEN stays the same, it'll get stagnant (maybe it already > has), and it needs something like this evolve. I would just hope that the > basic feel of DELTA GREEN - gritty realism, ultraviolence instead of > action-film violence, and basic Lovecraftian loneliness - remain. > > And beyond all this, it's interesting from a metagame perspective that we > all wanted to play the whistleblowers in the postmodern '90s, and now we > want to play the jackbooted thugs in postmillenial 00's. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. A new official Delta Green would be Majestic with a new name and some new agendas. Don't expect the Cowboys to be recruited or taken back into the fold. They are illegal loose-cannon conspirators, and besides they don't have the right sponsors. The new Delta Green would have to be infiltrated or doubled whenever possible. "Wild" Bill Donovan is gone, as is his protégé Bill Casey. Delta Green before the conspiracy was not an organization, it was a clearance level within an organization. It would probably return to that, although probably directly under Homeland Security rather than once removed. A multi-agency, multi-jurisdictional task force. Expect political appointees rather than recruiting mavericks. So, based on the performance of US intelligence and military planners in the RW, what are the odds of a gritty no-holds-barred fight toe-to-toe with the forces of the Mythos? They would be part of the problem just as fast as you can say "Accord." Maybe someday fighting the forces of the Outside will be the province of gentlemen, but this is here and now and these Tcho-Tcho advisors, many of whom are Vietnam veterans, have some valuable information and connections. And there is that chronic problem of local governments saddled with the cost of disposing of deceased homeless. It's a win\win. The difference between cremation and a bar-b-que followed by burial at sea is only a matter of degree and taste and modern plumbing. Speaking of the homeless problem, we've received overtures from representatives of a religious sect practicing "Mordiggianism." We feel that the enemy of our enemy is our friend and propose that we divert funds and other materiel to the rebel forces. Naturally, this will be black budget. We realize that they are creepy, but you have to remember "different culture, different mores," and they are certainly preferable to some of the other factions. Further, they have interrogation techniques for prisoners that make anything we taught at the School of the Americas obsolete. We're talking 100% recovery of intel and memories. As you know, part of the corrupting influence in the previous organization centered upon a quest for immortality utilizing ill-advised non-human techniques and technology. However, there are other programs utilizing more holistic, natural procedures derived from the native medicine of the Anziques of the Belgian Congo. 100% organic and derived from replenishable resources. Naturally, this is Eyes Only information at this time and until we can work out the logististics of immortality for the public. Diplomatic relations with the area known as Carcosa are problematic, as they have many vocal supporters in the artistic community. Rather than direct confrontation, we propose establishing clandestine agreements with members of the royal family with an eye to sponsoring a coup. At least when dealing with royalty you don't have to worry about them being Communists. Some valuable resources were missed by PAPERCLIP. Preliminary negotiations have begun with a triumvirate in South America, all 100% human and therefore strongly anti-Mythos. The technology they have offered so far as proof of intent is provocative, and included the information concerning the holistic treatments of the Anzique. In addition, they offered some techniques that would sidestep the controversy in cloning organs for transplants, requiring nothing more than refinements in refrigeration. We have all seen the legacy of the policy of Mutually Assured Destruction when dealing with weapons of mass destruction. We have been working through back channels to achieve a policy of detente with the entity known as Azathoth. Working with a think tank from Whole Earth Enterprises we have outlined a strategy derived from game theory and the Prisoner's Dilemma until we can outspend it, resulting in it's inevitable collapse. As you can see from the chart, projected Azathoth power is red and stumpy, while our plan is green and much taller. Mark McFadden Doesn't like jackboots. Jackboots are for girly-men too flabby to harden their feet through martial arts. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:14 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] -This- is the sort of reading that scares me ---- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > I'm starting to > understand the deeper meaning to the phrase "sense of humor." In medaeval times they attempted to map the mind, delineating various "senses". These were not things like sight and hearing, but various parts of mentation: the bit that distinguishes an object from the medium it's in: the bit that remembers; the imagination; and so on. The only remenant of this parlance in speech now is the term "common sense" (susis communis). This was one of the central elements - taking stuff from the outer world and interpreting it literally. I wonder if "sense of humour" is a remenant of that thinking? There was a current in medaeval thought that interpreted miracles as God's Jokes. I would be interesting to trace the phrase back > > In the sequel to "Paradise Lost," Damien Echols muses on Death Row that he > didn't take the charges seriously enough when he was first accused. What has Milton to do with this? The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:24 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: Gil Trevizo [mailto:furrylogic@mindspring.com] <> For me, even making DG official again wont do that. The need to maintain DG secret from the general public (and much of the government) will still necessitate a large degree of creative financing, cover-ups, and all the other dirty tricks we've come to know and love. <> I'd expect to see more standardization, better information sharing, but not necessarily more funding. Even with $400 hammers, there is only so much you can hide in a black budget. And having DG official only blurs the line between outright theft and law (think of sized funds from a raid on a Tong distributor). Even RW, IRAN-CONTRA had to gain funding from arms sales, dope sales, etc. ... and this had the support of the NSC. <> DG, for me, was never about search warrants, civil rights, or being environmentally sound. It always felt more "Section 31"... those who do Horrible Things so that others may sleep soundly, at least for a while. The only difference between that and jackbooted thugs is a matter of perspective. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:53 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. At 04:23 PM 12/6/2001 -0500, Rayburn, Russell E. wrote: >For me, even making DG official again wont do that. The need to maintain DG >secret from the general public (and much of the government) will still >necessitate a large degree of creative financing, cover-ups, and all the >other dirty tricks we've come to know and love. Okay, let me put it another way. A Delta Green cell finds a cult. It is well-established and close to doing something nasty too soon for sophisticated methods to put into effect. Action is required now. Under the current DG, the only resources the cell can bring to bear is what they have themselves or can scrounge from a Green Box. They might be able to bring in more personnel through whatever Friendlies might be in the area. They could use their law enforcement powers to call in official resources, but they need just cause (easy to make up) and good reason for the paperwork and review boards (some impossible). And whatever official help they bring in will be facing the Mythos unprepared - the agents will be sending unsuspecting people to get their minds warped or worse. And whatever they do, there is always the threat of inquiry by other government agencies and the media, and DG doesn't have much resources to deal with that (they can barely deal with a fly-by-night outfit like Phenomenon-X). Under the new official DG, the cell has significantly more resources to bring in. At the very least, this new DG will create some kind of rapid-reaction force, a Mythos HRT. Such a team will be well-prepared with heavy weapons (for a commando force) and will be much more aware of what kind of threat they are facing than a local SWAT team. They cannot use these resources without caution, but they can be much less cautious than old DG, because whatever government inquiry can limited because these guys now have proper clearance, and whatever media attention will now be subject to government stonewalling - it's not just DG's butt on the line if the raid gets on CNN, it's also the butts of every govt official that signed off on this new outfit, probably including the President himself. There are wrinkles than can be thrown into this, and I'm not saying it is bad idea. All I'm saying is that we should start thinking as much as to how the cause of DG can be harmed by going official as we are to thinking of how this now makes DG into SHIELD. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. At 01:22 PM 12/6/2001 -0800, The Lizard King wrote: > Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. > A new official Delta Green would be Majestic with a new name and some new >agendas. Exactly. In fact, the only way I think DG can subvert MJ-12 would be by handing the reins over to Lepus. ALPHONSE retires, ADAM is dead, no one has ever heard from ANDREA (and lived), and A-Cell becomes a one-man show. ADOLPH uber alles. Forget the geopolitical maneuvering - that could be a great campaign. Sure, DG now has resources it only dreamed of before, but the old DG agents would be as out-of-place in the new agency as the OSS boys were in the CIA. And who knows what kind of deals Lepus would make in his role as Director. The man is not as Mythos-aware as ALPHONSE was (though he might be), and whatever he does find out about the coming Endtimes, Lepus will only be interested in his perserving his own ass. And this is the government - Mideast terrorists kill hundreds of American civilians, and the first thing they think up is to hand out free pardons so that the key players will snitch on the street-level trash and walk away to plan another massacre. Lepus and crew will only be interested in the final option when the cultist is so far down the totem pole that he'll have nothing to deal. Alzis is gonna make a killing. "But there's still a few of us from the old days, who remember the good fight before it went bad. We don't cotton to Adolph and his politicking, and these Bronsons might say they're on our side but you look in their eyes and you know they ain't right. ALPHONSE says this was the only way, but way I figure, the old man just got tired. So we're getting it back together, starting up the cells and rebuilding the Green Boxes. They gave us clearance and budget, but by god, we're gonna use 'em in ways they never imagined. Maybe one day... hell, there's talk that ANDREA's still out there, waiting for that day when enough of us come to our senses, saddle our ponies, and head for a ride." Basically, this is turning DG into PISCES with the Shan replaced with good ol' fashioned primate behavior. This... good. Mission Impossible with Deep Ones... bad. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Gil Trevizo wrote: > I find it interesting that folks now want to move DELTA GREEN from being > about a ragtag conspiracy to turning them into "Men in Black vs. the > Mythos." I'm not saying this is bad - whatever floats your boat - but to > do so seriously changes the essential nature of DELTA GREEN. Ah, see, if I were to go ahead with something like this it would be the end of the campaign. I would finish having the players pull this off and get everything worked out and ready for the move to officaldom. Then I would describe to them how the new official DG kicks Mythos ass, get them feeling good about what they've managed to achieve, then when I think I've got them feeling as good as I can get them to, yank the rug out from underneath them with the endtimes... It's as good a final victory as I think the PCs can get... -- Tim _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/