From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:25 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG, WWII Style At 01:36 PM 12/8/2001 +1030, James Knevitt wrote: >Can anyone tell me where I can get the details for the DG WW2 mailing list? You can join online at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dgww2/ Or by sending a blank email to: dgww2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG, circa 1942 (was Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within.) At 08:52 PM 12/7/2001 -0500, SGlancy12@aol.com wrote: >Ken, why are you assuming that the raid on the Karotechia was a battalion >sized action? In Dennis Detwiller's upcoming DG novel, the raid is more >like a company sized action and the majority of the raiders we French >resistance fighters with a sprinkling of OSS and Rangers thrown in to >stiffen the mix. Well, that blows my vision of LIFEGUARD out of the water. I saw it as couple dozen French resistance, a few PISCES liason officers, and a handful of DG-clearance OSS agents. A company is what, about 120-150 people? Any ETA on Dennis' DG novel? Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:30 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Ursus Mark VI vs a Kodiak bear From: "The Man in Black" > The MIB thinks this candy ass better borrow SuperDave Farnell's Giant > Hamster Ball if he wants to keep his pretty face intact from Smokey the > Yukon Mauler's clawrific assault. Er, I THINK I fixed that electric-sparks-shooting-everywhere-and-setting-your-hair-on-fire problem, but you might want to wear an asbestos hat. And never, ever press the SUPER-SCAMPER button. Just trust me on that, brah. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:11 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG, circa 1942 (was Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within.) -----Original Message----- From: SGlancy12@aol.com >to becoming capable of mounting a Battalion sized force against the >Mythos in less than a year. > > >Ken, why are you assuming that the raid on the Karotechia was a battalion >sized action? In Dennis Detwiller's upcoming DG novel, the raid is more like >a company sized action and the majority of the raiders we French resistance >fighters with a sprinkling of OSS and Rangers thrown in to stiffen the mix. Because a huge force like a Battalion supports my point better! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: ElLocoToro@aol.com >In a message dated 12.07.2001 11+11+28 AM, scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com writes: > ><< After all, the whole > >point to regaining official status is that Delta Green has finally WON! > >Majestic has been beaten. It should be a New Era, and everything should > >be different. >> > >That is something that can NEVER happen! You can win over Majestic. It's quite possible, becasue it's a human conflict. In fact, it's the only thing that will keep suspension of disbelief going in the next 10 years of "Real History". Delta Green isn't going to kick the Great Old Ones off the planet, or prevent the ENDTIMES, but in order to maintain it's relevancy to the world, Delta Green is going to have to change. A victory over Majestic is the key to continuing the intellectual property. If you want to make a campaign where Delta Green is shattered and destroyed by the various challenges facing it, that's your problem. More power to you. Of course, that game is simply Cthulhu Now, not Delta Green. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:30 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Game Balance in DG From: Gil Trevizo >How many published scenarios involve the PC's facing the raw amotic energy >of Azathoth? The amount of mythos sorcerers with the knowledge to "Summon Azathoth" is rather a long list actually. The rampage of Cthulhu?> Cthulhu and R'yleh haven't really been active since the 1920's (Dream Choronzons and such aside). However, every scenario involving Deep Ones has the potential to include a Star Spawn at some point or other. Of course, during Operation RIPTIDE, a coast guard cutter machine-gunned the Star Spawn after it had been torpedoed by a submarine. The New Delta Green would be unable to mount an operation like RIPTIDE in this modern age however. The need for secrecy would be too great. On the other hand, we'd probably see something like a Tactical Nuclear Torpedo headed towards Y'ha'Nth'lei. The double flash of a nuclear detonation is much easier to conceal underwater, even if the seismic signature and radiation is still a dead giveaway. If supercavitating underwater weaponry gets off the ground (and why shouldn't MJ-6 PLUTO have stuff like that?) we might see some of that as well. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:50 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: DG, circa 1942 (was Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within.) From: Gil Trevizo >Well, that blows my vision of LIFEGUARD out of the water. I saw it as >couple dozen French resistance, a few PISCES liason officers, and a handful >of DG-clearance OSS agents. A company is what, about 120-150 people? That's 120-150 Shooters (people with BIG GUNZ) with quite a bit of logistical support on the Battalion (mortars), Regimental (artillery) and Division (airstrikes and reinforcements) level. Since this was a commando raid, you're looking at a much leaner operation than a standard infantry Company, but I imagine what little supply chain you have would be leeched off of the UK Special Operations Executive or obtained locally. It might even be necessary to raid a German Armory prior to the raid. You'd certainly want to make diversionary strikes during the strike to tie-up German reinforcements. Of course, I have no idea how much time DG had to plan the operation, but I imagine it wasn't much. Then again, if the Abwehr got wind of the Karotechia's plot and decided to betray them to the allies, Delta Green might have been in on the whole mass sacrifice thing from the beginning. I've been playing around with the idea that the Antarctic Covenant (email me for details, as this is deep background non-player stuff for SPIRAL CHALICE/7th Chemical) established by Acacia Lexington and the Thule Society backers of the Barnsmeier-Faulken expedition might have been exchanging intelligence during the war period. PISCES was tipped off to the Karotechia's existence by the Antarctic Covenant, who used their Thule Society contacts as a 5th Column inside the Karotechia. Thus the information flows look like this: Karotechia -> Thule Society -> Antarctic Covenant -> PISCES -> Delta Green | Abwehr -> British Intelligence -> PISCES -> Delta Green Clearly, Delta Green would want to infiltrate the Antarctic Covenant in order to get closer to the original source of intelligence... Hmm... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 10:29 AM To: DGML Subject: [DG] Tales of Terror for Delta Green? I was thinking... How to Organize such a project. The previous Tales of Terror volumes have been basically a haphazard collection of random mythos outbreaks. For Delta Green, one would expect a little more focus. My conclusion is that the best way to organize a collection of Delta Green Tales of Terror would be to have one Tale of Terror for each Investigative Priority of the various Agencies that make up Delta Green. You could even call the series "Investigative Priorities" as it would focus more on Tradecraft. This would be organized very much like Appendix G of the core book. The scope of such a project is fairly large, therefore, it might be wise to divide them into sections. I forsee five distinct areas: Law Enforcement, the Intelligence Community, the Armed Forces, International (Global Policemen), and Miscellenaneous (for things like the EPA and CDC). "INVESTIGATIVE PRIORITIES: Law Enforcement" is easy. Law Enforcement operates in the open, they are subject to public scrutiny, and testimony about their activities fills court records. Furthermore, they tell us exactly what it is they do: US Marshalls: http://www.usdoj.gov/marshals/ Protecting the Federal Judiciary Protecting Endangered Federal Witnesses Apprehension of Federal Fugitives Transporting Federal Prisoners Managing Forfeited and Seized Criminal Assets FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/fbinbrief/todaysfbi/investigative.htm Background Checks (DOE, NRC, DOJ, Presidential Appointees, Federal Court personnel) Civil Rights Domestic Terrorism Kidnapping National Foriegn Intelligence Organized Crime/Drug Cases. Violent Crime (Serial Murder) White Collar Crime "INVESTIGATIVE PRIORITIES: The Intelligence Community" is much more difficult to research. The only operations the general public is privy too are the ones that fail. Successful Intelligence Operations never see the light of day. Not only that, but Intelligence Operations are not limited in scope as Law Enforcement. The Intelligence Division of the CIA is relatively open and subject to scrutiny, but the Operations Division is subject to all sorts of lies, damn lies and statistics. Whether or not Delta Green should blend the conspiracy material written about CIA Operations with "factual" tradecraft is something that needs to be discussed. Given the lack of available truth concerning CIA Operations, it would seem expedient, if somewhat irresponsible, to accept certain of the more plausible sounding, if unconfirmable, things published about the CIA. The Central Intelligence Agency Front Corporations in Foreign Nations Domestic Front Corporations Recruiting Foreign Agents Overthrow of Hostile Govenments Hmm.. what else would the CIA do? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New Private-Sector Ally > faired over. I believe > Jacques Cousteau had a plane very much like this, yep. though the best thing costeau owned was the several-hundred-liters-of-red-wine-tank installed on his converted minesweeper calypso. obdg: sedating deep ones and other aquatic mythos creatures? or just one of those frogeaters extravaganza again? festus __________________________________________________________________ Nokia 5510. Verrücktes Design! Toller Sound! Entdecke und gewinne es auf http://de.promotions.yahoo.com/nokia/ Gewinnspiel endet am 16. Dezember 2001. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 12:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] How to get to the next Operatic performance On 8 December 2001, Rob Shankly pointed out: >"The U.S. Army TACOM National Automotive Center >(http://www.tacom.army.mil/tardec/nac/index.htm ), in partnership with >the International Armoring Corporation ( http://www.armormax.com/ ) and >Integrated Concepts & Research ( http://www.icrc-hq.com/st.htm >),introduces the SmarTruck, a warrior-worthy vehicle packed with all the >spy goodies and optional weapons the on-the-go armorer could want. Another good place to get spy goodies and other DG-usable aftermarket accessories for your Spy Car (tm) is CCS (http://www.spyzone.com). While many of the sections there provide interesting spy gear (and if this stuff is commercially available, it makes you wonder how far along the secret stuff used by government spooks is...), one of my favorite sections is under "Bulletproof Products", where you can check their Bulletproof Car (which is even available in kit form). It offers just about everything that Bond's Aston Martin had -- except the ejection seat, tire shredders, and machine guns, all of which you would have to buy from another distributor! When you activate these devices from the secret control panel (IIRC, Q didn't even label the buttons in the Aston Martin), remember to start the Bond music (background music, very important!) before pushing the buttons, and try to use them on the villains in the same order that Q explained them to you (as Bond did with "Little Nellie"'s ordnance in the movie version of "You Only Live Twice")! (Too bad that Desmond Llewellyn, who played the one and only Major Boothroyd, is no longer with us...) >Go here >(http://www.tacom.army.mil/tardec/nac/projects/smartrck.pdf ) to see >some specs or, if .pdfs are too slow, see the news story >(http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,47860,00.html ) from >Wired." The US Army already has precedent for such vehicles -- during the latter part of the Cold War, for example, it fielded the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle! A slightly fictionalized version of one of its first operational missions appears in the film "Stripes". A variant of this vehicle was apparently used for a time by Mack Bolan/COL John Phoenix, and is mentioned a number of times in Pendelton's accounts. The USAF didn't want to feel left out, and brought into service the Land Master, which we saw operational in "Damnation Alley". While this vehicle had more mobility than the EM-50, it was considerably more conspicuous. During the post Cold War military drawdown under the Clinton regime, a number of these vehicles were sold to the Morrow Corporation. Morrow is rumored to have in turn developed an improved version for some Project of his... It has been suggested that another organization used the Land Master as the basis for its ARK II project. On the other side of the Atlantic, the Vatican developed the Popemobile, refusing to respond to inquiries about whether its garage was in the Popecave under St. Peter's... If your Agents have lots of money, they can (as one player in a local game did) build a reproduction 1938 Phantom Corsair (http://www.automuseum.org/1938corsair.html)(AKA "The Flying Wombat" (http://www.flyingwombat.com/flyingwombat.html)) to install all their Neat Spy Stuff in! This six-passenger coup would fit right in with the Gotham City traffic, and looks even more like a Batmobile than many of the Batmobiles! One retired Intelligence officer allegedly maintained that his preference for a Spy Car (tm) would be a Volkswagen Rabbit -- "The Other Side will be looking for some chap in a tuxedo, driving an Aston Martin!" Personally, considering how many of these Monster Sightings and UFO landings take place in the boonies, my choice for a Spy Car (tm) would probably be a Jeep Grand Cherokee, or possibly a Hummer! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Horror Express Historywallah@aol.com wrote: > It was some sort of outer space parasite that had 'infected'/inhabited > the caveman which Lee's character had recovered. Didn't it say that it had inhabited the proto-human because it couldn't cope with our atmosphere? > High speed horror > hi-jinks ensue when caveman defrosts, allowing the parasite freedom to > move from body to body. Brilliant stuff. Some of the better touches included the creature picking up the habits and skills of the people it possessed and carrying them on to the next form. For some reason, I really liked the whole "memory in the eye" bit and the way the draining of knowledge from it's victims resulted in their brains becoming completely smooth. > I always find this an incredibly cheesy but entertaining film. The > scene in which Lee and Cushing explain that they can't *possibly* be > infected by the parasite because they're 'British, dammit' was a > constant source of fun for my uni flatmates, who for some reason would > would chortle and point at me... :) "Monsters? I'll have you know we're British!" Always gets a laugh in our house... Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:09 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] White Dwarf jon.turner wrote: > Ooh, ooh! I SAT at that table and played Diana Fighting Princess. It's a hoot, isn't it? Marcus originally called it "Diana, Amazon Princess", but got all paranoid about being sued by DC Comics. Played a game of that with Marcus at Gen Con 2000 and laughed so hard I nearly threw up (I played Fergie). Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] White Dwarf philip.ward@yestelevision.com wrote: > And the evidence, Marcus Rowland is indeed a beardy! > > http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/pix/dm01/02.htm Nice pictures, Phil. As all can see, Marcus is indeed a beardy. Later in the evening it was suggested that he should shave his head for charity next year, but he wasn't into it. I pointed out he was about two thirds of the way there already, but he wasn't having it :-) Shame you didn't get any pics of Matt Goodman approaching terminal befuddlement during the "Mornington Crescent" game. Since it was his birthday the following day, I got him a couple of books on the subject. He still has no clue, but the books are pretty funny. To keep this vaguely on topic, Marcus mentioned that there might be a possibility of releasing a collection of the Cthulhu stuff he did for White Dwarf, but he couldn't tell me more than that (actually, he said he could, but then he'd have to feed me to his snakes). Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 2:27 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New Private-Sector Ally On 8 December 2001, "Dirk R. Festus Festerling" wrote: > > I believe > > Jacques Cousteau had a plane very much like this, > >yep. though the best thing costeau owned was the >several-hundred-liters-of-red-wine-tank installed on >his converted minesweeper calypso. >obdg: sedating deep ones and other aquatic mythos >creatures? > >or just one of those frogeaters extravaganza again? Probably frogeaters extravaganza... Wouldn't the French only serve white wine to fish? The French seem to believe in bringing wine along wherever they go, sort of like Good Old Boys bringing guns! In the "Brigade Quartermaster" catalog (or was it the one from "Sportsman's Guide"?), I recently saw for sale some special jerrycans the French Army used to hold wine for the troops! (The Cousteau PBY may have carried a couple of these, though divers' manuals warn of the danger of Diving Under the Influence!):) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 2:48 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] How to get to the next Operatic performance From: Michael Layne > Another good place to get spy goodies and other DG-usable aftermarket >accessories for your Spy Car (tm) is CCS (http://www.spyzone.com). I'm an old school sort of guy, I like the car from Spyhunter: Machine Guns, Missiles, Oil Slick and Smoke Screen. The Ford P.O.S. that MIB offers as standard issue is fine I suppose, but when I practice my offensive driving skills I want the Peter Gunn soundtrack as my theme music. > (Too bad that Desmond Llewellyn, who played the one >and only Major Boothroyd, is no longer with us...) But they replaced him with John Cleese, who is an altogether satisfactory substitute. The new tradition for Q branch should be to make some atrocious inside joke referring to an old Monty Python sketch in every movie. > If your Agents have lots of money, they can (as one player in a local >game did) build a reproduction 1938 Phantom Corsair The greatest vehicle ever made. All MIB's operating in the Our Darkest Hour era will be required to drive these. This is the vehicle the MIB drives when visiting Carcosa. BTW: there are versions of the batmobile which for all intents and purposes are Phantom Corsairs. > Personally, considering how many of these Monster Sightings and UFO >landings take place in the boonies, my choice for a Spy Car (tm) would >probably be a Jeep Grand Cherokee, or possibly a Hummer! My choice for Spy Car for that sort of thing is the X-COM Equilateral Interceptor Mk VII. I think your SpyHUMMER is going to have problems engaging the UFO in high speed pursuit, unless you have some sort of wacky Aerial Ultra Pursuit Mode or something. However, tooling about in a flying hummer is pretty ridiculous when you could be pulling 7G aerial acrobatics in a sleek black triangle don't you think? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:29 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Game Balance in DG On 8 December 2001, "The Man in Black" wrote: >Cthulhu and R'yleh haven't really been active since the 1920's (Dream >Choronzons and such aside). However, every scenario involving Deep Ones >has the potential to include a Star Spawn at some point or other. Of >course, during Operation RIPTIDE, a coast guard cutter machine-gunned >the Star Spawn after it had been torpedoed by a submarine. Probably, the SSN and the cutter constituted a "covering force" for the main strike, which I posited (one of the earlier times RIPTIDE was discussed) was carried out with a Mk 101 NDB, delivered by P-5 Marlin ASW aircraft. Given the presence of the Star Spawn, the necessity of the covering force was proven, and we can hope the personnel involved were quietly given commendations (with citation "classified"). Star Spawn (or something very like them) allegedly appeared again during the ill-fated WALLABY expedition in the Pacific (an account of which appears in "Grace Under Pressure"). While the appearance of the Star Spawn during RIPTIDE might be attributed to "Happenstance", that cannot explain the WALLABY incident, and I think we should proceed through "Coincidence", directly to "Enemy Action"! Future operations against Deep Ones, larger than squad-sized actions, should probably include contingency provisions for Star Spawn appearances. > >The New Delta Green would be unable to mount an operation like RIPTIDE >in this modern age however. The need for secrecy would be too great. On >the other hand, we'd probably see something like a Tactical Nuclear >Torpedo headed towards Y'ha'Nth'lei. The double flash of a nuclear >detonation is much easier to conceal underwater, even if the seismic >signature and radiation is still a dead giveaway. The fish for the job (so long as the planner is not aboard the firing sub):) would have been the Mk 45 ASTOR (http://www.warships1.com/Weapons/WTUS_PostWWII.htm (this will give you data on all US WWII fish -- scroll down to Mk 45)). The Mk 45 was wire-guided, with no homing systems built into the fish itself. (They depended on the firing vessel's active sonar to provide firecontrol data.) It had a top speed of 40 knots, and a range of 11,000 to 15,000 yds. The nuclear warhead was command-detonated. (The fish required the wire anyway, for guidance signals, and the idea was that using the wire to tell the warhead to detonate constituted "positive control over the nuclear detonation"...) The Mk 45 was approved for service use in FY61, and began entering fleet service in FY63. It was withdrawn from service in 1976, for a variety of reasons, including: Increased emphasis on use of passive vs. active sonars on the SSNs; High noise level after the unit is launched (though this was, and is, a characteristic shared by the Mk 48); Proven effectiveness of the Mk 48 as a precision weapon, as contrasted with the area effect of the Mk 45; Doctrine changes making use of tactical nukes in ASW less likely; Possible complicity in the loss of USS "Scorpion"; Submariners were joking (with some justification) that the Mk 45 had "a Kill Probability of 2.0 -- target vessel and _firing vessel_", with the warhead's kill radius perilously close to projected engagement distances for the fish! Another possibility would be the SUBROC, which carried a nuclear warhead, but no SUBROCs are left in service, and, even if you found one in a Naval Ordnance Depot somewhere, current SSNs' firecontrol systems are no longer compatible with it! That system was pulled from the early 688s to make room for Tomahawk-related equipment, and later boats don't include it at all. ASROC might do the job. The earlier version, using the box launcher or the Mk 26, has been withdrawn from service. However, the VLA (Vertical Launch ASROC) is operational with various VLS-equipped warships. It apparently doesn't include a nuclear version, but it might be possible to backfit an older ASROC nuclear warhead onto a VLA round. (This won't be a nuclear torpedo, but, like the SUBROC warhead, would be an NDB -- a Nuclear Depth Bomb.) >If supercavitating >underwater weaponry gets off the ground (and why shouldn't MJ-6 PLUTO >have stuff like that?) we might see some of that as well. Before firing that rocket off from _my_ SSN, I would want to be satisfied that it won't sink my boat, like the Shkval being tested by the "Kursk" may have! A Kill Probability of 1.0 is nice, but I would prefer it to be the _target_!:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Clayton A. Oliver [bad_karma@mindspring.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Tales of Terror for Delta Green? At 06:28 AM 12/8/01 -1000, The Man in Black wrote: > >US Marshalls: > >http://www.usdoj.gov/marshals/ > >Protecting the Federal Judiciary >Protecting Endangered Federal Witnesses >Apprehension of Federal Fugitives >Transporting Federal Prisoners >Managing Forfeited and Seized Criminal Assets You left out: "Transporting Nuclear Weapons." - C. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Clayton A. Oliver All the kung fu in the world can't bad_karma@mindspring.com help you when it comes to women. www.mindspring.com/~bad_karma/ - The Defender _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 3:58 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Tales of Terror for Delta Green? -----Original Message----- From: Clayton A. Oliver >>US Marshalls: >You left out: "Transporting Nuclear Weapons." I'm pretty sure that this falls outside the Marshal Service's jurisdiction: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/dodd-4540_5.htm Looks like this is the province of the Defense and Energy departments, not Justice. What's your source for this info? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Tales of Terror for Delta Green? From: The Man in Black >http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/dodd-4540_5.htm > >Looks like this is the province of the Defense and Energy departments, >not Justice. What's your source for this info? NEVERMIND! I found it. http://www.usdoj.gov/marshals/specops.html How do I miss these things? Sheesh! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dagon [serendipity@wanadoo.nl] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:47:45 +0100 Material which touches upon Lovecraftian themes, KULT, WoD, Cyberpunk and (hence) Delta Green. http://home.wanadoo.nl/serendipity _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:23 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Game Balance in DG ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > > >How many published scenarios involve the PC's facing the raw amotic > energy > >of Azathoth? > > The amount of mythos sorcerers with the knowledge to "Summon Azathoth" > is rather a long list actually. Which is not the same thing as a scenario where a sorcerer actually uses it and the PCs have to confront it, and you know it. Answer the question Mib, Yes ... or No. Don't wait for the translation. I am prepared to wait until hell freezes over. > The New Delta Green would be unable to mount an operation like RIPTIDE > in this modern age however. The need for secrecy would be too great. On > the other hand, we'd probably see something like a Tactical Nuclear > Torpedo headed towards Y'ha'Nth'lei. Yes, the use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction detected by every nation with seismographs would be so much more easy to explain away than a conventional military operation with no reporters present. Uh, we were, uh, *testing*. Yeah, that's it. If the French can do it, we can do it, so there. Nothing to see here, all you protesters go home. I also don't buy the assertion that DG has to usurp or destroy MJ-12 in order for the game to be kept fresh. I agree that there would be a major shake-up in the DGverse due to current events, but I do not agree that that is the only course of action or the most likely. Which is the likelier scenario in the wake of 9/11: a well-established part of the Military Industrial Complex is gutted in order to re-establish a group that was disbanded under a cloud, or an illegal conspiracy would be treated as de facto terrorist cells and quietly swept up? I think the most likely change for DG would be the loss of some key personnel and the disruption of the cell system. DG would change from a conspiracy of Feds running Friendlies, to a headless confederation of Friendlies desperately scrambling to get reorganized. A return to the Cowboy Years with a whole new cast of characters and a whole new methodology. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:29 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Game Balance in DG -----Original Message----- From: The Lizard King > Which is not the same thing as a scenario where a sorcerer actually uses it >and the PCs have to confront it, and you know it. Answer the question Mib, >Yes ... or No. Don't wait for the translation. I am prepared to wait until >hell freezes over. I dunno, I always have sorcerers with Call Azathoth use it as soon as everything goes pear shaped. Sort of a retaliatory strike sort of thing. > Yes, the use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction detected by every nation with >seismographs would be so much more easy to explain away than a conventional >military operation with no reporters present. Uh, we were, uh, *testing*. >Yeah, that's it. If the French can do it, we can do it, so there. Nothing to >see here, all you protesters go home. If it's good enough for Isreal and South Africa (see the Vela Flash Incident) then it's good enough for me. > I also don't buy the assertion that DG has to usurp or destroy MJ-12 in >order for the game to be kept fresh. I agree that there would be a major >shake-up in the DGverse due to current events, but I do not agree that that >is the only course of action or the most likely. I never said it was. I simply think it's the most fun and unexpected way to take things. Besides, I want to run a political game. > I think the most likely change for DG would be the loss of some key >personnel and the disruption of the cell system. DG would change from a >conspiracy of Feds running Friendlies, to a headless confederation of >Friendlies desperately scrambling to get reorganized. A return to the Cowboy >Years with a whole new cast of characters and a whole new methodology. That's QUITE likely, but then we'd just be playing Cthulhu Now with badges. Not quite as entertaining as what I have in mind, IMHO. I want Delta Green to break new ground, and reflect the 21st Century's New World Order a little better than it does now. A Cowboy Delta Green in today's world would get chopped off at the knees and die trying to hold in it's guts. This might make a nice short term campaign, but it kills off the chance to do anything with Delta Green over the long term. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 4:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:47:45 +0100 -----Original Message----- From: Dagon >Material which touches upon Lovecraftian themes, KULT, >WoD, Cyberpunk and (hence) Delta Green. >http://home.wanadoo.nl/serendipity This site has some excellent graphic design, but suffers from a lack of coherent organization. All the information is presented without any context, and there are many dead links. Style has triumphed over substance. I suppose this fits in with a "cyberpunk" ethos, but the interface is difficult to understand. Is it a house campaign? A Personal Website? A White Wolf _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dagon [serendipity@wanadoo.nl] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 5:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:47:45 +0100 | This site has some excellent graphic design, but suffers from a lack of | coherent organization. All the information is presented without any | context, and there are many dead links. Style has triumphed over | substance. I suppose this fits in with a "cyberpunk" ethos, but the | interface is difficult to understand. Is it a house campaign? A Personal | Website? A White Wolf Yeah, I know. Been working on it and will be for years to come. Personal Setting, New York By Night, in 2045. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of jon.turner [jon.turner@ntlworld.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] White Dwarf I played Fergie too... actually, I thought it was dreadfully dull. But thar ya go... JT Horses... for courses... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doctor TOC" To: Sent: 08 December 2001 19:09 Subject: Re: [DG] White Dwarf > jon.turner wrote: > > > Ooh, ooh! I SAT at that table and played Diana Fighting Princess. > > It's a hoot, isn't it? Marcus originally called it "Diana, Amazon > Princess", but got all paranoid about being sued by DC Comics. Played a > game of that with Marcus at Gen Con 2000 and laughed so hard I nearly > threw up (I played Fergie). > > Doctor TOC > -- > The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" > Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs > ICQ # 4814586 > Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ > Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar > alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days > The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@eircom.net] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:27 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The new feudalism His Saurian Majesty wrote: > I'm working on the idea that civilization as we know it is the product of > Nyarlathotep. Everything that we think DG is fighting for is actually > continuing the program for the Endtimes. It was designed that way. As I see it, Nyarlathotep represents Self-awareness/selfishness. Yog-S may be Science/order/Male/John and Shub-N is Life/chaos/female/Paul and theire correspondance to one another can be argued until the Glove Cleaner mutates into Johnny Carson, but Nyarlathotep has, despite his avatar, shown him/her/its/theirself to be independent. So, while machines and animals are obedient to whatever god they hold, humans have the nasty notion of self, thus creating the need to enforce ones own perspective, or improve one's one position, or even remove one's own inferiority from the genepool. Nyarlathotep, is, to use the title of the evil deity of Zoroastroanism, is the "Author of Evil", because Evil requires malice, and malice requires the capacity to hate, and hate comes from arrogance, and arrogance comes from a sense of personal betterness, which requires self-awareness. No Nyarlathotep? Then the Universe would be filled with conveniently spinning rocks in space. - The Nuge (who is 23 in roughly 3 hours time. Huzzah) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@eircom.net] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 8:36 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG Down under? >I am not sure if this has been mentioned but check out the >movie 'Bad Taste' for a look at a DG op gone bad. Actually, the first DG adventure I ran, back in 1998, was with my DG-Gardai, and was based on Bad Taste. Albeit with Galway for New Zeeland (very similar topography, actually), Men from Leng instead of 3rd-rate zombie-aliens, a Moon-beast instead of a fat bastard in a suit, and a trans-dream device rather than a space-ship. Went rather well, only difference was that the Derek survived (he wasnt quite as mental). It works well for a less gung ho (yes!) environment, like Ireland, PISCES in Scotland, or anywhere where guns are a little more talked about than fondled. - The Nuge _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 9:14 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:47:45 +0100 Oh my goddess... it's captain bootleg! >Material which touches upon Lovecraftian themes, KULT, >WoD, Cyberpunk and (hence) Delta Green. >http://home.wanadoo.nl/serendipity Hi Dagon! J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 9:25 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The new feudalism From: The Nuge >No Nyarlathotep? Then the Universe would be filled with conveniently spinning rocks in space. I have some breaking news for you: the Universe IS filled with conveniently spinning rocks in space. I was born on one, I live on one, and I'll probably die on one. If I were you, I'd check for inconveniently non-spinning rocks in your head... >- The Nuge (who is 23 in roughly 3 hours time. Huzzah) I wish you were never born. The Man in Black is : 29 years old as of 6 DEC 2001. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 9:34 PM To: DGML Subject: [DG] The Astral Plane. I'm conducting a probe of Psychotronic Weaponry, Project PANDORA, the STARGATE Remote Viewing Project, and Soviet-era Psychic research. The link between all these things, the legendary energies of Vril, AZATHOTH, and Project RAINBOW will become apparant all too soon. What I need now is a synopsis of the Astral Plane as described in Pagan's Golden Dawn book, as I've convinced myself that such information can be extrapolated to fit into the morass of insane insights that I'm weaving. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@eircom.net] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 9:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The new feudalism > I have some breaking news for you: the Universe IS filled with > conveniently spinning rocks in space. I was born on one, I live on one, > and I'll probably die on one. If I were you, I'd check for > inconveniently non-spinning rocks in your head... Urrmm, "filled with" usually denotes that they occupy the area entirely, and exclusively. And we all know that we're actually inhabiting the massive gravitational eddy created by the illicit copulation of Anne Widdicombe and Brian Cowen. > I wish you were never born. > > The Man in Black is : 29 years old as of 6 DEC 2001. Cracking 30, eh? Gettin' old, eh? Looking for an elasticated waist on them black pants? Soon you'll be the man in wee, wee I tells ya! (Gibber gibber foam) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 10:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The new feudalism ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > The Man in Black is : 29 years old as of 6 DEC 2001. So, one day after his birthday the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor. See what happens when they don't use the western calendar? Off by decades. Mark McFadden And a belated Happy [Biological Process of Some Sort] Day to you MiB. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:47 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] DG: One for the Green Box Nice! here's another link: http://www.sesp.co.il/newjammer2.html I like the note at the end of the original link re: jamming police signals. Can see players having a field day with that... -----Original Message----- From: Graeme Price [mailto:graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:37 PM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: [DG] DG: One for the Green Box This little toy, as reported by Auntie, ought to be right up there in the useful gadgets section: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1692000/1692059.stm Personally, I would like to get my hands on one of these just for the entertainment value (although think of the havoc you could wreak by hiding one of these in a hospital.... all those pagers that suddenly go offline. Teach the bastard housestaff to bring live pagers and cell phones to my seminars!). Graeme _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:24 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. From: Gil Trevizo [mailto:furrylogic@mindspring.com] <> For me, even making DG official again wont do that. The need to maintain DG secret from the general public (and much of the government) will still necessitate a large degree of creative financing, cover-ups, and all the other dirty tricks we've come to know and love. <> I'd expect to see more standardization, better information sharing, but not necessarily more funding. Even with $400 hammers, there is only so much you can hide in a black budget. And having DG official only blurs the line between outright theft and law (think of sized funds from a raid on a Tong distributor). Even RW, IRAN-CONTRA had to gain funding from arms sales, dope sales, etc. ... and this had the support of the NSC. <> DG, for me, was never about search warrants, civil rights, or being environmentally sound. It always felt more "Section 31"... those who do Horrible Things so that others may sleep soundly, at least for a while. The only difference between that and jackbooted thugs is a matter of perspective. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/