From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:21 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Bureaucracy & Game Balance I'm doing it again, responding to a collection of posts... Heaven forbid that this turns into a "he said..." / "no, you said..." waste of time. No one's really interested. The point here is that there is a healthy discussion about places the DG setting can be taken. The Man in Black wrote: > > From: Rob Shankly > > > I disagree with the MiB that the next phase of the game > >should have the "legal" DG confronting the mounting Endtimes >paraphrasing wildly, but that seems to be the thrust of his posts>. > > No, I said that the ENDTIMES will see powerful offical Delta Green > opposing the mythos. Nothing I said ANYTHING to the point that gaining > official status for DG will immediately spark the ENDTIMES. That is > something that you have fabricated, and I hate it when people put words > in my mouth. So you should, but with roughly 60 DGML posts to read I didn't have the time to cut and paste quotes. I don't think anything I wrote suggested that DG becoming official would catalyze the Endtimes. But I have the impression from your posts that you envision a setting where an official, political, largely covert DG confronts the Endtimes almost immediately. A thousand pardons from your house if I'm being obtuse, but I have not noticed you suggesting a lag between current events and the End. "I think that the ENDTIMES will see a dissolution of the social fabric > that holds governments together. Thus, as society breaks apart at the seams, the activities of the New Delta Green will be shattered as it falls apart from within. Much as you've deliniated actually." Ta muchly. But I see the descent being very gradual, with mass disruption such as falling governments not happening for decades. I want the to milk more out of the themes available right now (which can include the political insider aspect if you are keen on it), then start to include some cyberpunk ideas, then maybe some stuff in near space, the Moon and possibly Mars. "You can win over Majestic. It's quite possible, because it's a human conflict. In fact, it's the only thing that will keep suspension of disbelief going in the next 10 years of "Real History"... A victory over Majestic is the key to continuing the intellectual property... If you want to make a campaign where Delta Green is shattered... Of course, that game is simply Cthulhu Now, not Delta Green." Absolutely! DG as it currently exists cries out for "victories" over Special-K, Tiger Transit, Majestic etc. The PCs should be given a shot at beating the bad guys if they have the stuff to do it. The victories will ultimately be hollow: what is the greater horror, to be condemned without hope, or to struggle and achieve apparent safety and then have the rug pulled out when the bigger picture becomes clear? The setting allows GMs to bring their players screaming back to earth. I also don't buy the assertion that DG has to usurp or destroy MJ-12 in order for the game to be kept fresh. I agree that there would be a major shake-up in the DGverse due to current events, but I do not agree that that is the only course of action or the most likely. Which is the likelier scenario in the wake of 9/11: a well-established part of the Military Industrial Complex is gutted in order to re-establish a group that was disbanded under a cloud, or an illegal conspiracy would be treated as de facto terrorist cells and quietly swept up? I think the most likely change for DG would be the loss of some key personnel and the disruption of the cell system. DG would change from a conspiracy of Feds running Friendlies, to a headless confederation of friendlies desperately scrambling to get reorganized. A return to the Cowboy Years with a whole new cast of characters and a whole new methodology." In the short term I think you are absolutely right, but I believe DG would put it's house in order within one or two years at worst. The chaotic period DG is experiencing now is damn convenient for GMs, too, because it gives us a breathing space to run our games until there is a bit more known about changes to US Govt agencies in the wake of 9/11. GMs can run about like headless chickens, not knowing what is most accurate or where things are going, and this will _add_ to believability in the short term. All clouds have silver linings if you wear the right spectacles. The current DG setting is great for the 1990s, but is very hard to sustain after 9/11. To an extent we are stuck, because all the events have not played out. But having acknowledged that the institutions we use in our stories are changing in ways we can't predict, we still need to consider where DG is going. Games which cover September and past that date _have_ to include 9/11: there's no way a game can sustain a believable story in the "real" world and ignore the attacks. There might be an interesting alternate reality where the hijacks were stopped, or only 1 tower fell (and perhaps the fourth aircraft hit it's target) but I think that would be hard to sell to new players and GMs. "...we'd just be playing Cthulhu Now with badges. Not quite as entertaining as what I have in mind, IMHO. I want Delta Green to break new ground, and reflect the 21st Century's New World Order a little better than it does now." Once again, I think we agree more than we disagree. There is a dramatic necessity for longer DG campaigns to end up head-to-head with Majestic, and I think the PCs should have a shot at contributing to a DG victory. If they fail then the campaign is over and there is no need to worry about what comes after, unless they end up in Outlook and we know where that story goes. If they succeed, however, even partially, we need to know what happens next. Majestic has *lots* of cool toys, resources, friends and enemies to be inherited- there will be something that rises in its place. If the PCs are brilliant enough to have a hand in shaping the new organisation, then good for them, but I want to meet the team of genius players good enough to survive DG, take on Majestic and win, and still have enough left over to influence what happens next! Returning to Mark's comments above, I think the easiest way for DG to obtain control of Majestic Mk II is for senior members of the conspiracy to inveigle themselves in as part of the new broom sweeping out the dust. This encourages and explains accommodations with surviving members of Majestic (like Lepus). These DG-insiders will still have all their guilty secrets. Because of the cell structure they won't know each other. Some may over time become corrupted in the way I have described before. It should not be difficult to create situations where the PCs have a choice between towing the line and enabling further corruption, or disobeying their instructions and coping with the consequences. "A Cowboy Delta Green in today's world would get chopped off at the knees and die trying to hold in it's guts. This might make a nice short term campaign, but it kills off the chance to do anything with Delta Green over the long term." Once again I agree, and wonder if there are other possibilities? I'm looking for a long-term game, and the most likely story which allows that appears to be one where DG is given some kind of sanction. I'd love to hear some alternative ideas. Cheers, -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au Better living through reckless experimentation. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of James Knevitt [psipsina@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:13 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Bureaucracy: The Enemy Within. > DG, for me, was never about search warrants, civil rights, or being > environmentally sound. It always felt more "Section 31"... those who do > Horrible Things so that others may sleep soundly, at least for a while. > > The only difference between that and jackbooted thugs is a matter of > perspective. Ditto. I always thought the main attraction of DG was the fact that you must do the wrong things in order to do the right things. You, as government agents with a second agenda, must break, lie, steal and even murder in order to protect the unwitting public from something they could never comprehend, as well as having to protect the public from your own employer, the institution that by its very nature needs to be trusted for it to work. That's the appeal of DG for me. That, and there's creepy things. James ------ Coroner: "Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go and remove a javelin from some guy's chest." Lenny Brisco: "Sometimes I wonder why you like this job." Coroner: "Free javelins." - Law & Order _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:30 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] OT -- Jason King Awhile back there was some discussion of "Department S" and Peter Wyngarde. Too bad none of it was available stateside (AFAIK), it looks like it was a lot of fun. I got looking around for resources for some DG\Invisibles crossover type stuff I'm sporadically working on. At least now I understand the joke when John Byrne had a droopy-mustached charactrer named Jason Wyngarde as a member of the Hellfire Club in X-Men. Anyhow, since there are fans on the list, you might want to check out this site: Jason King's Groovy Pad http://members.tripod.com/~waynetiki/jkmainframe.html I'm starting to see where some of Austin Powers came from as well. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of James Knevitt [psipsina@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:22 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] DG and the New World Order Courtesy of the MiB: > I want Delta Green to break > new ground, and reflect the 21st Century's New World > Order a little > better than it does now. Dear god, yes! One must agree (regardless of political affiliation or opinion on current world events) that the US Govt at the moment is an environment where Majestic would thrive. The fact that there is a Republican President in the White House means that there is an increase in right-wing policies and actions, and we all must agree that Majestic is the kind of organisation that would not only condone these actions, but would possibly even orchestrate their execution. Majestic is an organisation filled with bitter old men and psychpaths. Who better to condone and encourage today's more conservative, right wing opinion? This needs to be reflected in Majestic's increasing infiltration of this very institution. Majestic won't weaken in this new era, they'll be stonger than they ever were. James ------ Coroner: "Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go and remove a javelin from some guy's chest." Lenny Brisco: "Sometimes I wonder why you like this job." Coroner: "Free javelins." - Law & Order _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: RevolutionSF [owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:46 AM To: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: BOUNCE deltagreen@revolutionsf.com: Non-member submission from ["Dagon" ] >From serendipity@wanadoo.nl Sun Dec 9 03:46:01 2001 Received: from smtpg.casema.net (smtpg.casema.net [195.96.96.160]) by revolutionsf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA02285 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 03:46:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (qmail 10252 invoked by uid 0); 9 Dec 2001 09:19:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO serendipity) (212.64.82.117) by smtpg.casema.net with SMTP; 9 Dec 2001 09:19:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c1808f$8145d2c0$8441fea9@serendipity> Reply-To: "Dagon" From: "Dagon" To: References: Subject: Re: [DG] Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:47:45 +0100 Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:57:16 +0100 Organization: Dagon's OmniVortex WebZone (II) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Expanding horizons? | >Material which touches upon Lovecraftian themes, KULT, | >WoD, Cyberpunk and (hence) Delta Green. | >http://home.wanadoo.nl/serendipity | | Hi Dagon! | | J. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:24 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: Queen of Hearts Diana is an interesting RL study. She really was beloved by ordinary English people - And I think it's *because* she was so utterly fucked up. Ordinary women of her age identified with her completely. I suspect she has a throne somewhere in the Dreamlands that metamorphises into a toilet she can throw up into. I remember going for a drive on the day of her state funeral. Not a car anywhere, for miles. The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: "jon.turner" To: Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [DG] White Dwarf > I played Fergie too... actually, I thought it was dreadfully dull. But thar > ya go... > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order Good Afternoon. James Knevitt schrieb: > > Dear god, yes! One must agree (regardless of political affiliation or > opinion on current world events) that the US Govt at the moment is an > environment where Majestic would thrive. The fact that there is a Republican > President in the White House means that there is an increase in right-wing > policies and actions, and we all must agree that Majestic is the kind of > organisation that would not only condone these actions, but would possibly > even orchestrate their execution. You could use the same argument to support the idea of bringing DG back into official status. As far as I am concerned I think that the current US government is the one that would be the most likely to reestablish DG as an official though secret agency. Not only because of the events of September 11th, but also because of the people involved: September 11th has changed the world. People are concerned about their safety, the word "WWIII" lingered in the air after the retaliation began. The 8 years before everything seemed happier, the presidency of Mr. Clinton will be remembered as an era of economic successes, relativ peace and discussions about the legal definiton of sex. The world has become darker. It began with the weird way Mr. Bush got elected. And it has reached a climax with September 11th and its aftermath. The Western World feels threatened by the outside world. Citizens of darker complexion or even Arabian heritage seem suspicious to the regular John Doe [ what actually remembers me of the Lovecraftesque racism that can be witnessed in some of his works ]. And because of the failure of agencies to even *warn* of the possibility of something like 09-11, these agencies now follow every trace that might lead to terrorists or their supporters. The result might very well be that they end up not discovering a terrorist cell, but an organisation of mythos relevance. The chances have simply gotten that better that mythos organisations or creatures are discovered! And if those things are discovered, someone will remember that the US once had an organisation to fight these horrors... > > Majestic is an organisation filled with bitter old men and psychpaths. And you can say the same about Delta Green. eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of trueprophet@talk21.com Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:11 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Plea for information(was re: The Astral Plane) the MIB wrote: > I'm conducting a probe of Psychotronic Weaponry, Project PANDORA, the >STARGATE Remote Viewing Project, and Soviet-era Psychic research. The >link between all these things, the legendary energies of Vril, AZATHOTH, >and Project RAINBOW will become apparant all too soon. > >What I need now is a synopsis of the Astral Plane as described in >Pagan's Golden Dawn book, as I've convinced myself that such information >can be extrapolated to fit into the morass of insane insights that I'm >weaving. > No dude, what you need now is a lie down, some of those pretty pink pills, a nice white jacket which ties up at the back and some of that green jello. Don't forget to wipe your mouth afterwards. BTW, quick links in the Ice Cave or something to any of these BIG CAPITAL names which I can only assume come out of the novels(which I haven't been able to get my hands on yet)? (eg PARIAH) Oh, and anyone want to point me in the direction of info on Project RAINBOW? It's not that I'm incompetent(well, not totally) just that they aren't in any of the books I *do* have(a slim list, I'm afraid; namely Delta Green and Countdown for 1990s gameplay)and I don't have any way of finding out which books they are in so I can get them: well, except for a mailing list of Delta Green junkies, gunfondlers and a dribbling guy wearing an Armani suit, shades and a very fetching straitjacket. Voidchaser, Consuming Bandwidth Like There's No Tomorrow. 'Si hoc legere scis nimium erudtionis habes.' -------------------- talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:38 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order From: Eckhard Huelshoff > The Western World feels threatened by the outside world. This has been the primary dividing conflict in the world even during the cold war. Capitalism and Consumer Culture eroding and consuming everything unlike itself. Now, we're seeing it turn more towards religious and tribal cultures. The result has been violence and isolationism. The book "Jihad vs. McWorld" by Benjamin Barber explores the conflict between tribalism and globalism, and comes to the dangerous conclusion that both opposing principles threaten freedom and democracy. The Middle Way shines through the bones of the battlefield once again... > The result might very well be that they end up not discovering a terrorist cell, but > an organisation of mythos relevance. > The chances have simply gotten that better that mythos organisations or > creatures are discovered! > > And if those things are discovered, someone will remember that the US once > had an organisation to fight these horrors... Delta Green remembers. I think Delta Green should explore the possibility of coming clean to the Administration, and providing him with an objective, unbiased history of America's experience with the supernatural. Granted, you'd have to determine that he wasn't a Majestic pawn before doing anything of the sort. This puts Delta Green in the unenviable position of spying on the President of the United States. If it can be determined that the President can be trusted, Paul Maclester could have Delta Green conduct a National Security Finding and brief the president on it. Presumably, the result of such a meeting would be a small, obscure, and very top secret branch of the Office of Homeland Security. Done properly, it would slip right under Majestic's radar, until it was too late... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Man in Black" > This has been the primary dividing conflict in the world even during the > cold war. Capitalism and Consumer Culture eroding and consuming > everything unlike itself. > > The book "Jihad vs. McWorld" by Benjamin Barber explores the conflict > between tribalism and globalism, Ah yes. Good book. But there is one point you miss, or don't mention; Capitalism and Consumer culture is eating itself as well as everything else. This is a major aspect of the EndTimes The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:24 PM To: DGML Subject: [DG] Psychic Warfare for Delta Green (PART ONE) Psychic Warfare for Delta Green by the MAN IN BLACK Part One: WALLS OF FIRE "The mind has no firewall." - Timothy L. Thomas In the early 1960's the Soviet Union engaged in an aggressive program of psychic research. The Soviet Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medical and Biological Research pursued and uncovered many minor psychic talents. The KGB applied discoveries such as remote viewing to penetrate western secret projects like Majestic-12 and PISCES. For a few brief years during the Cold War, the Soviet Union maintained supremacy in the astral theatre of conflict. However, the enormous scope of the threat the Soviet Academy of Sciences unleashed with their psychic research has never been made public. Their otherworldly terror originated in Nazi Germany, in the secret researches of an amoral scientist named Dr. Williem Eisenbien. Eisenbein had in his possession a prototype Tillinghast Resonator he had obtained from Franklin Rathke in the summer of 1937. Combined with his work in advanced acoustics, Eisenbein was able to maintain strict control over the N-Space field and the things from beyond that it revealed. When he returned to his beloved Germany in the fall of 1937, he continued to develop the bizarre technology, and eventually attracted the attention of the Karotechia. The Karotechia concluded that the resonator was a reinvention of an ancient Atlantean device that tapped into the invisible energies of the Black Sun (which they also knew as AZATHOTH) and the White Rays that permeated the unseen cosmos. The Nazi masters of the Karotechia were convinced that the Resonator generated the mystic energies of Vril. Exposure to this radiation could unlock hidden powers of the Secret Masters, the Vril-Ya, also known as the Kn'Yan in certain writings. Most of the so-called Aryan supermen died of massive brain hemmorages as a result of deadly T-Radiation literally expanding their minds. Undaunted, the researchers continued their program using victims pulled from the concentration camps. Eventually, working with Dr. Eisenbein, the Karotechia continued to develop acoustic controls over the Vril field, hoping to minimize casualties and successfully mutate Aryan ubermensch. The process was unpredictable and worked on very few exeptional individuals. Most of the Vrilfolk were jewish prisoners related to each other in one way or another, and possesed dangerous, uncontrollable supernatural powers. This led the Nazis to the irrationally belief that the device only worked on those with a specific racial and genetic heritage somehow linked to Atlantis and Ultima Thule. The newly empowered Vrilfolk were themselves uncontrollable and unpredictable. The Karotechia relied upon sorcery to control or eliminate the Vril mutants, including supposedly "Aryan" volunteers driven insane by their saturation in other dimensions. By 1945, there were three Vril Ubermensch ready to fight against the allies at Castle Wevelsburg. Their fate remains unknown. The Vril researchers of the Karotechia informed the fuhrer that they were ready to begin the manufacture of an unstoppable army of gods, a new German Pantheon. Their research had nearly reached operational status when it was seized by Smersh in 1945. Delta Green sent a SUMMER BREEZE team to eliminate Dr. Eisenbein, and managed to watch the scientist fade into a gossamer mist before their very eyes. He was never seen or heard from again. Unfortunately, the Soviets had obtained the Vril Generator and research files of Dr. Eisenbein and they put their new findings into practice over the course of the next few decades, shattering space and time with newfound powers of the mind. VRIL SOCIETY LINKS: http://www.crystalinks.com/vril.html http://www.geocities.com/mevlevi2000/vril-society.htm COMING SOON: Part Two: WALLS OF IRON The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 1:59 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order <> Back off, cheif, and enough with this goosestepping Republicans caricature. If I read Gen. Fairfeild's final statement correctly, he much more fits the profile of a die-hard conservative than Kroft, Lepus, and their cronies, who are mere bureaucrats. And lets not forget that it was Truman [a Democrat] who dibanded Delta Green along with the OSS, founded Majestic [with Delta Green thrown in to shut old OSSers up], and, in real life, the modern intelligence apparatus. Or that Delta Green was disbanded by by a Democratic administration. It would have been much easier for Majestic to exist in the winding maze of bureacracy brought about by Clinton's term in office [how many times was he guilty of sleight-of-hand when it came to PR?] than under the authoritarian rule of "bitter old men" like Ashcroft and Rumsfeld. Not that any of that should matter... --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 4:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] DG In, Majestic Out If you're looking for a reversal-of-fortune scenario, try this: Assume (as some folks have speculated) that George H. Bush ("Big George") is aware of Majestic, and George W. ("Little George") isn't. In the wake of Sept 11th, members of Delta Green spring into action and starts looking for Gray or Mythos influence behind the attacks. You don't get to Little George, though; you go for Ashcroft. You don't tell him about DG; you DO make him aware of what we've got - Deep Ones and data on a conspiracy inside the Government working with Grays. You also show him information about the Necronomicon, written hundreds of years ago by a "mad Arab", and true or not, you draw parallels between al Qaeda and a Mythos cult. It's a tough sell, but if you can convince him... You then manipulate Ashcroft et. al. to create a unified Homeland Security agency, which intertwines all law enforcement agencies who have any information or operations that touch the topic of terrorism. DG, of course, has had an inter-agency agenda operating for almost a decade; it wouldn't take much to get DG agents into the right places. DG is still a secret. But they now operate inside of Homeland Defense, and have more obvious reasons for personell from different agencies to be cooperating, or even stationed together. We have more resources, but not unlimited; DG's actual agenda is still limited. But DG begins to build a larger power base with which to compete with MJ12. We've got a thousand "suspected terrorists" locked up, and Ashcroft won't give names or details in the interest of "National Security". Who's he really rounding up? Deep One hybrids? Grey hybrids? Majestic agents? Mythos cultists with middle eastern connections? This is the perfect time to start rounding up unfriendlies. If DG can build a connection between terrorism and the grays (actual or falsifed), and they can present that case to Little George before Majestic briefs him on their existance, DG could, concievably, get MJ12 shut down, or at least get their official status taken away and drive them underground, putting DG on nearly equal footing. How to do this? Go back a couple of years, to right after the embassy bombings, and have an undercover DG agent or friendly representing himself as MJ12 peddle captured/stolen Gray technology to al Qaeda. This is off the top of my head. I already see holes I could drive a Hummer through, but those can be fixed. Feedback? -berin ******** http://unclebear.com/deltagreen "According to Gallup polls, only 10% of Americans say they hold a secular view of the world, while 44% believe in strict biblical creationism. Four million also believe they have been abducted by Aliens. The Economist urges [presidential] candidates to address the vital question this finding raises. Should schools teach survival courses for those threatened with alien abduction?" -- From the Economist, regarding the teaching of evolution in schools _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@eircom.net] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 4:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order Me smells a Democrat V Republican arguement... it was Truman [a Democrat] who dibanded Delta Green along with the OSS, founded Majestic [with Delta Green thrown in to shut old OSSers up], and, in real life, the modern intelligence apparatus. Or that Delta Green was disbanded by by a Democratic administration. > > It would have been much easier for Majestic to exist in the winding maze of bureacracy brought about by Clinton's term in office [how many times was he guilty of sleight-of-hand when it came to PR?] than under the authoritarian rule of "bitter old men" like Ashcroft and Rumsfeld. I'm afraid you're wrong there. Liberal and left wing governments, since they spend more time out of power than in, tend to attempt to make government functions less complex, more transperant and more answerable. Right wing governments thrive on bureaucracy and "I'm sorry, the file you requested has been withheld on grounds of public benifit". DG may have been put out by a democrat, and may be back in business due to a republican, but that doesn't mean break out the Elephant badges. Far from it. When politicans set up institutions, its usually so the organisation will be at their beck and call. And when that founding politican leaves office, the structure is designed so his replacement won't be nearly as powerful (case in point: MJ-12's don't inform the president rule). Dev (effectively) wrote the Irish constitution, as well as reshuffled the Gardai and Army to men who followed him, and introduced broad and vague "public good" legislation during WWII. Such men don't make Delta-Green's for the public good, its to ensure their world is safe. logistically speaking, Bush is a better president for DG and MJ-12 than Gore would have been, because he's more likely to set up something like the Office of Homeland Security - delegate authority to someone who has a vague notion of what to do. Anyway, even though I can't affect American politics, I'd go Democrat - its what The Doctor prescribes. - The Nuge The Captain is a One-Armed Dwarf He's throwing dice along the wharf In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 4:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order >From: "The Nuge" >Me smells a Democrat V Republican arguement... Yep. Quel surprise. >I'm afraid you're wrong there. Liberal and left wing governments, since >they spend more time out of power than in, tend to attempt to make >government functions less complex, more transperant and more answerable. >Right wing governments thrive on bureaucracy and "I'm sorry, the file you >requested has been withheld on grounds of public benifit". DG may have been >put out by a democrat, and may be back in (gales of laughter) I'll be content with, yet again, my Nuge nudge. OT, chum. -=Will _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 5:47 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG In, Majestic Out From: Berin Kinsman >In the wake of Sept 11th, members of Delta Green spring into action and starts looking for Gray or Mythos influence behind the attacks. You don't get to Little George, though; you go for Ashcroft. You don't tell him about DG; you DO make him aware of what we've got - Deep Ones and data on a conspiracy inside the Government working with Grays. Majestic isn't the conspiracy. They ARE the Government. Delta Green is the conpiracy. Also, Ashcroft is the man in charge of the Justice Dept. The Office of Homeland Security is a White House run by Tom Ridge. It really doesn't have any prior american equivalent. http://www.whitehouse.gov/homeland/ >You also show him information about the Necronomicon, written hundreds of years ago by a "mad Arab", and true or not, you draw parallels between al Qaeda and a Mythos cult. It's a tough sell, but if you can convince him... If you take my position that the Karotechia used their arab bauer to orchestrate the first of their mass sacrifices, with others on the way (all of which having been prevented by Delta Green and it's allies thus far of course) then it becomes a lot easier to establish an anti-occult group within the Office of Homeland Security. All you have to do is obtain evidence against the Karotechia. This is one reason why military tribunals, secret imprisonments and other trappings of fascism may have been set up, to keep occult secrets away from FOIA requests. The irony of using fascism to successfully destroy the Karotechia should not be lost to fans of Nyarlathotep. >You then manipulate Ashcroft et. al. to create a unified Homeland Security agency, which intertwines all law enforcement agencies who have any information or operations that touch the topic of terrorism. DG, of course, has had an inter-agency agenda operating for almost a decade; it wouldn't take much to get DG agents into the right places. > >DG is still a secret. But they now operate inside of Homeland Defense, and have more obvious reasons for personell from different agencies to be cooperating, or even stationed together. We have more resources, but not unlimited; DG's actual agenda is still limited. But DG begins to build a larger power base with which to compete with MJ12. > >We've got a thousand "suspected terrorists" locked up, and Ashcroft won't give names or details in the interest of "National Security". Who's he really rounding up? Deep One hybrids? Grey hybrids? Majestic agents? Mythos cultists with middle eastern connections? This is the perfect time to start rounding up unfriendlies. > >If DG can build a connection between terrorism and the grays (actual or falsifed), and they can present that case to Little George before Majestic briefs him on their existance, DG could, concievably, get MJ12 shut down, or at least get their official status taken away and drive them underground, putting DG on nearly equal footing. This is exactly my plan for Delta Green over the next decade. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 5:14 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: In NATURE today .... Some cool diagrams of Lake Vostock http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6864/fig_tab/414603a_F1.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6864/fig_tab/414603a_F2.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6864/fig_tab/414603a_F3.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v414/n6864/fig_tab/414603a_F4.html The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:37 PM To: DGML Subject: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green We all know that Delta Green did a lot in WW2 under the OSS. But the years from 1947 to 1970 (and especially 1970-1994) remain largely unexplored with a scattershot of interesting tidbits. Delta Green operated under the Pentagon, reporting directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. For the most part, the postwar Delta Green faced no "unifying" threat like Majestic or the Karotechia. The major undertaking of the postwar years saw a cleanup of the Karotechia (SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS, SUMMER BREEZE, SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY) followed by a slow erosion of personel and sanity in the malaise of the late 50's. The 1960's saw military operations conducted against Devil's Reef (Operation RIPTIDE, 1963) and further investigation into Deep Ones, who were believed to be responsible for sinking submarines in the Western Mediterrainean. Operation KURTZ in 1964 saw action against a mythos outbreak in the Belgian Congo. The 1960's also marked Delta Green's increased committment to domestic operations with aggressive (albeit haphazard) recruitment from the law enforcement community. The history of the Pentagon-era Delta Green was capped by Vietnam, and ended with sanction being stripped from the organization. Some rampant speculation on the facts: 1) Could the encroaching influence of Carcosa and Hastur have had a serious effect on the late 1950's Delta Green? Entropy, social decay, malaise, the insanity of Daniel Fries and the retirement of Martic Cook, it all points to a problem that may have gone beyond the "eight-martini-results" of investigation into the paranormal. 2) What if Deep Ones had nothing to do with the Western Mediterrainean situation? Gloon, Carcosa, and Soviet psychotronic warfare are all valid alternate theories. Perhaps Gloon and Carcosa have a dreamlands connection, this ties in nicely to my first point. On the other hand, Conspiracy Literature suggests the Soviet connection, which I'm developing in gradual little spurts here and there. 3) The primary conflict of the 1970's post-Vietnam-era Delta Green could have been the Soviet psychic warfare establishment. While GRU and Majestic were dodging each other in the 60's and 70's, Delta Green could have been mucking about with the KGB and their pet psychics. The distraction of dangerous psychics with mythos abilities may have distracted the GRU enough to allow Majestic to blindside Soviet Military Intelligence into believing that Majestic had been disbanded. It could also allow Delta Green to convince the GRU that they were an official US Government program. The irony of such a situation is rich with the potential for tragic-comedic misadventure, a black budget, black comedy. Given the possibility that a Nazi version of the Tillinghast Resonator could be responsible for the proliferation of Soviet psychics, time travel also comes into the mix, with psychic mutants jumping forward in time (into the 1980's) to escape the GRU's Delta Green assisted purge of them during the 1970's. To combat this time-traveling menace, Delta Green may have founded STARGATE and related remote viewing programs to track down inhuman Soviet psychics. This opens the possibility that Majestic (through it's MKULTRA contacts) could start the manufacture of psychic mutants with their own Project TELL or Project WELLS. Given their access to Grey Biotechnology and Justin Kroft's reckless ambitions, this seems highly likely. The few people with clearance to the MIB's report on Project CONTOUR will realize that Neo-Tissue could be used in conjunction with the Milk of Shub-Niggurath to produce truly horrible human-alien hybrids. Combined with Project TELL and the Soviet "psychic factory", Majestic could give these godchildren of Ubbo-Sothla and Shub-Niggurath the ability to generate vast amounts of T-Radiation. The prospect is not a pleasing one. A replay of the Soviet psychics jumping into the future to escape their persecutors could again occur, only this iteration would involve incredibly dangerous creatures that resemble a cross between a Shoggoth, a Dark Young and a Hound of Tindalos. The possibility that one or more members of the Soviet psychic warfare establishment could have had ties to the Skoptsi is also something that should not be overlooked. An Eaten of God with T-Radiation abilities is something that would give most investigators pause. The Man in Black is : glad he got to use the phrase "time-traveling menace" Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:49 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green Pardon me while I check my dormant SANDMAN notes for a snooping MiB's fingerprints.... ;) > 3) The primary conflict of the 1970's post-Vietnam-era Delta Green could > have been the Soviet psychic warfare establishment. While GRU and > Majestic were dodging each other in the 60's and 70's, Delta Green could > have been mucking about with the KGB and their pet psychics. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 6:59 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green From: Shane Ivey >Pardon me while I check my dormant SANDMAN notes for a snooping MiB's >fingerprints.... ;) I am shocked and appalled by this baseless accusation. I think it's common knowledge that the MIB have this excruciatingly painful chrome device that erases our fingerprints, you can see it in the documentary with Tommy Lee Jones. If you need corroboration, it's even lyrically documented in Will Smith's perennial MIB theme song! Send me your SANDMAN files. I need to see them... The Man in Black is : clearly a "no names and no fingerprints" MIB. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of James Knevitt [psipsina@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 7:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order From: : > < better to condone and encourage today's more conservative, right wing > opinion? >> > I'm well aware that DG shares some very strong conservative streaks. My point was that the old guard so to speak were just like Majestic in the sense that they belonged in the 1950s, not in the 1990s. The new guard are more liberal and open-minded than their predecessors, that's all. They have women, for god's sake! :) James _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:38 PM To: DGML Subject: [DG] Psychic Warfare for Delta Green by the MAN IN BLACK, PART TWO Part Two: WALLS OF IRON "None can compute what has been called 'the unestimated sum of human pain.'" - Winston Churchill The 1950's saw Soviet investigation of Karotechia Vril research hindered by serious Soviet scientists sceptical of Nazi occult gibberish involving the Black Sun and AZATHOTH. However, the effects of the Vril Generator could not be denied. They placed Semyon Kirlian , the Armenian Electrician who discovered Kirlian Photography, in charge of the Vril Research. Kirlian was unwilling to sacrifice human pawns to the device, and this slowed development. The KGB, however, did not suffer from such reluctance. They manipulated prisoners from the gulags into volunteering for the project with promises of freedom. In 1961, after a disappointing string of cerebral hemorrhages and nightmarish interdimensional accidents, the Soviets had their first success. His name was Yuri Kasavin. Kasavin was a small-time Moscow hood who had been detained for desertion and looting during the Hungarian revolution of 1956. He was sent to spend the rest of his days incarcerated in the gulag system, where he quickly made enemies with a pack of ruthless gangsters in a temporary Novosibirsk Gulag. To escape certain death, he jumped at the chance to be exposed to the acoustically focused radiation of the Nazi Vril Generator. Yuri quickly gained the ability to see beyond, witnessing the horrible creatures that existed in the spaces between our own. This slightly unhinged Yuri's mind, but such visions were nothing compared to the supernatural abilities he developed. During months of ever increasing exposure to the machine Yuri gained the ability to render himself invisible, intangible, to produce a visible aura, to charge objects with T-Radiation and move those objects with the powers of his mind, to partly project himself into N-Space and the Astral plane, to temporarily stop the passage of time, and to set things ablaze by partially charging them with T-Radiation, allowing interdimensional friction to ignite them. The scientists and their KGB handlers were greatly impressed with Yuri's phenomenal powers. They were even more impressed when, in the middle of a supposedly harmless demonstration of those powers, he was devoured from the inside out by some sort of invisible creature, showering visiting party officials (including a KGB General) with an bloody explosion of gore and viscera. This established the pattern of Soviet Psychic research for the two decades to follow: dramatic results followed by equally dramatic disaster. The KGB quickly came to regard the manufacture of psychics as a suicidal prospect with an enormous cost in human life and sanity. They resolved themselves to pay that terrible price. For the Rodina, the motherland, and for Communism -- they sold their souls to meet the butcher's bill. GRU-SV8 became aware of the KGB's catastrophic activity in 1968 at the First Moscow International Conference on Parapsychology. By this time, the KGB had greatly refined their psychic manufacturing techniques, and had managed to recruit a few actual talents. Among their refinements was a device designed by Semyon Kirlian that used an electrically generated acoustic field to purge a subject of T-Radiation. The KGB had constructed a secret "Science City" in the Ural mountains to continue their psychic research. Unknown to the KGB, their experimentation had saturated the entire area with T-Radiation, and the poisoned land became a magnet for all sorts of paranormal interdimensional phenomenon. ******* COMING SOON: ASTRAL AMERICA: MKULTRA, Project PANDORA, and the STARGATE Remote Viewing program. "Mister Gorbachev! Tear down this wall!" - President Ronald Reagan. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:46 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order In a message dated 12.10.2001 9+07+58 AM, psipsina@iprimus.com.au writes: << I'm well aware that DG shares some very strong conservative streaks. My point was that the old guard so to speak were just like Majestic in the sense that they belonged in the 1950s, not in the 1990s. The new guard are more liberal and open-minded than their predecessors, that's all. They have women, for god's sake! :) >> OK. Point dropped. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 9:46 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] (OT) Writing for 2000 AD, Warhammer Monthly Hey folks Is there anyone on the DG list who's succeeded - or failed - in getting scripts published in either Warhammer Monthly or 2000 AD? If so, I'd like to know how it went, and any advice you could give me. Feel free to answer off-list, so as not to clutter others' boxes. Thanks! J. Edward ialdaloboth@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green Its good stuff, but the huge amount of Mythos involvement dillutes the Lovecraft horror effect with a bunch of references to Outre Horrors. What I'm trying to say is that it becomes too pulpish -- and I know I'm asking for it with that statement, given that Lovecraft defined PULP and much of DG comes from disreputable conspiracy sources. But take the following: <> You have the KGB making psychics using a Karotechia version of the Tillinghast resonator, then Majestic making similar psychics but adding Mother's Milk and neotissue that makes them alien mutants, then Delta Green founding Project STARGATE to track the Soviets... And then everyone goes for a temporal safari. This may just be my taste in plotlines, and I am in no way criticizing this as a campaign, but as a sketch of a KGB-Majestic-DG confrontation, I think its way too complex. The KGB-produced psychics, however, are awesome. Once Majestic and DG become involved, the plot becomes loses focus (or rather becomes too focused on name-dropping). Personally, I'd be content seeing Majestic squaring off against the GRU, while Delta Green -- with old anti-communist links from the OSS days -- would go at the KGB. BUT: Regarding the KGB... Try this for background on the project: In May 1938, NKVD agent Pavel Sudoplatov hands Ukrainian nationalist leader Evhen Konovalets a bomb disguised as a box of candies in a Rotterdam cafe. History records that Konovalets is killed and Sudoplatov walks away. But Sudoplatov doesn't. Indeed, he is killed, only to be Resurrected by Smersh. Sudoplatov goes on become the head of the NKVD Fourth Directorate during WWII, which is in charge of partisan activities behind enemy lines. He uses NKVD partisans to harass the Ukrainian nationalists that he died trying to destroy. In January 1946, the Soviet intelligence apparatus is reorganized, and Sudoplatov is placed in charge of the highly-secretive MGB Special Bureau Number 1 (or, the Spetsburo), which is in charge of wetworks. A section of the Spetsburo, dubbed the Chamber, is responsible for thinking up the gadgets used by Soviet security. Of course, since Sudoplatov is a high-ranking member in Smersh, the Spetsburo and the Chamber are used to study the mythos and dream up applications for what is found. One of the major sources of mythos knowledge is the defunct Karotechia: Edwin Peis ends up in the Chamber's clutches, as should -- it's up to you -- Eisenbein's resonator. I've come up with material for the resuscitated casualties project, but I won't discuss that here. Anyway, Sudoplatov and the Spetsburo are cleaned up by the GRU after Khrushchev comes to power (Sudoplatov goes on to lead a "normal" life after prison and ends up writing his memoirs in 1994), and the Chamber is shut down. But not for long. Khrushchev soon reactivates it as part of the NKGB's Section 9, and then as the aptly-named KGB Department 13. In effect, Department 13 becomes the successor to Smersh. I don't see why Dept. 13 wouldn't have the Tillinghast resonator and wouldn't be the ones messing with it in your plotline. You take it from there. Email me if you want any more info. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:36 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Psychic Warfare for Delta Green by the MAN IN BLACK, PART TWO This stuff is good. Maybe it just makes more sense when you explain it at length. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 10:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green On 9 December 2001, "The Man in Black" maintains: > >Pardon me while I check my dormant SANDMAN notes for a snooping MiB's > >fingerprints.... ;) > >I am shocked and appalled by this baseless accusation. I think it's >common knowledge that the MIB have this excruciatingly painful chrome >device that erases our fingerprints, you can see it in the documentary >with Tommy Lee Jones. If you need corroboration, it's even lyrically >documented in Will Smith's perennial MIB theme song! I thought you folks simply wore special gloves like the ones "Cavenaugh" describes in the novel "Puppet Masters": "...Agent's gloves. Wearing these, I could have stirred boiling acid, yet picked up a dime and told you whether it was heads or tails..." Also helps keep DNA traces from skin cells from ending up on those files you're examining! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Keith Potter [kpotter@columbus.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:01 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green on 12/9/2001 19:48, Shane Ivey at shane@revolutionsf.com wrote: >> 3) The primary conflict of the 1970's post-Vietnam-era Delta Green could >> have been the Soviet psychic warfare establishment. While GRU and >> Majestic were dodging each other in the 60's and 70's, Delta Green could >> have been mucking about with the KGB and their pet psychics. > > Pardon me while I check my dormant SANDMAN notes for a snooping MiB's > fingerprints.... ;) I KNEW it! I knew it all along!! :) --Agent MARK _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: RevolutionSF [owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:34 PM To: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: BOUNCE deltagreen@revolutionsf.com: Non-member submission from [The Man in Black ] >From mib@cyberspace.org Sun Dec 9 23:34:12 2001 Received: from hnlfe3.hawaii.rr.com (hnlfe3.hawaii.rr.com [24.25.227.115]) by revolutionsf.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03193 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 23:34:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from compaq.cyberspace.org ([66.8.149.187]) by hnlfe3.hawaii.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:33:37 -1000 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.0.20011209192326.00aa9710@pop-server.hawaii.rr.com> X-Sender: scrogginl001@pop-server.hawaii.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 19:33:59 -1000 To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: [DG] The Hollow History of Delta Green In-Reply-To: <17f.7550ff.294594c3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:32 PM 12/9/01 -0500, you wrote: >Its good stuff, but the huge amount of Mythos involvement dillutes the >Lovecraft horror effect with a bunch of references to Outre Horrors. What I'm >trying to say is that it becomes too pulpish -- and I know I'm asking for it >with that statement, given that Lovecraft defined PULP >and much of DG comes from disreputable conspiracy sources. The description is meant to sound pulpish. However, the actual STARGATE and GRU operations against the EVIL DEPT. THIRTEEN will take on a much more horrific feel. You just have to rewrite the scenarios in your head that's all. >You have the KGB making psychics using a Karotechia version of the >Tillinghast resonator, then Majestic making similar psychics but adding >Mother's Milk and neotissue that makes them alien mutants, then Delta Green >founding Project STARGATE to track the Soviets... And then everyone goes for >a temporal safari. That's pretty much it. Except it's really NWI misappropriating Majestic resources to produce new versions of humanity. That and the bizarre Tunguska-like events that might result from the Soviet Psychic City. >This may just be my taste in plotlines, and I am in no way criticizing this >as a campaign, but as a sketch of a KGB-Majestic-DG confrontation, I think >its way too complex. Well, I've been accused of many things, but simple-mindedness is rarely one of them. > The KGB-produced psychics, however, are awesome. Once >Majestic and DG become involved, the plot becomes loses focus (or rather >becomes too focused on name-dropping). Majestic isn't involved at all if you'll notice. Project CONTOUR is very recent (started in 2000) and will conclude in 2012 or thereabouts. >Personally, I'd be content seeing Majestic squaring off against the GRU, >while Delta Green -- with old anti-communist links from the OSS days -- would >go at the KGB. Um... that's exactly what's going to happen in the ASTRAL AMERICA portion of the writeup. >I don't see why Dept. 13 wouldn't have the Tillinghast resonator and wouldn't >be the ones messing with it in your plotline. You take it from there. > >Email me if you want any more info. Of course I want more info! send me links! From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:09 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order At 02:59 PM 12/9/01 -0500, ElLocoToro@aol.com wrote: >Or that Delta Green was disbanded by by a Democratic administration. DG was disbanded in 1969 - Nixon. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:55 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG In, Majestic Out Good Morning! The Man in Black schrieb: [snip] > Majestic isn't the conspiracy. They ARE the Government. Delta Green is > the conpiracy. Also, Ashcroft is the man in charge of the Justice Dept. I think that Ashcroft might be the easiest to convince to make DG an official thing once again. He's a devoted [ close to fundamentalist imho ] Christian after all! And since the mythos does not really easily fit into Christian traditions and values, Ashcroft would definitely - upon being confronted with this reality - feel the urge to do something against it. I'm sure he would wrongly thing of it as a demonic or satanic threat and probably confuse the GOOs with demons and devils, but nonetheless he would be eager to fight them. He'd probably even like the idea of having the chance to play a major role in the ultimate crusade against the forces of hell. And since DG once played a major official role in this crusade, he could be convinced to get them back where they belong. On the good side DG would have all the benefits of an official organisation. On the bad side they would have to reduce their drinking-, dancing- and gambling-habits. eckhard _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:27 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] DG and the New World Order In a message dated 12.10.2001 3+12+35 PM, furrylogic@mindspring.com writes: << At 02:59 PM 12/9/01 -0500, ElLocoToro@aol.com wrote: >Or that Delta Green was disbanded by by a Democratic administration. DG was disbanded in 1969 - Nixon. >> Ouch. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:34 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] My mistake... I know, I know... 1969 was Nixon and Republicans are evil. You don't have to post anything correcting me. If I were Clinton, I'd be bombing Iraq right now... --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman [trollboy@shoggoth.net] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] My mistake... If I where Bush, I'd be bombing France right now... Matt "TrollBoy" Wiseman Webmaster: Shoggoth.net Site Designer: phpslash.org The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown. -H.P. Lovecraft --------------------------------------------------------- Please do not resell my e-mail address to anyone or send me unsolicited e-mail --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:33 AM Subject: [DG] My mistake... > I know, I know... 1969 was Nixon and Republicans are evil. You don't have to > post anything correcting me. If I were Clinton, I'd be bombing Iraq right > now... > > --Mark > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/