From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Re: Adam and Eve Greetings. >It's strange how deep the claim of this legend is upon us. > >What does the Fall truely represent? The first awakwning to human >consciousness, out of blissful animal ignorance? First time a guy got in trouble because of a woman. ... which is not so politically correct. Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:19 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green On 13 December 2001, "Anarchy" reported:: >I can't speak for actual setting material, but I'm currently writing an >Equipment guide that I'm hoping to get published for DG. Mr. Tynes has >expressed an interest, and I'm being very thorough with it. Some chapters >are Surveillance, Surveillance Countermeasures, Disguised Weaponry, >Automobile Modification, Poisons & Toxins, Night-Vision Equipment. I should >have a preliminary copy finished soon. Now, _that_ definitely sounds interesting! When it gets printed, I'll be interested in getting a copy! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Justices Weigh Law Barring Virtual Child Pornography The Lizard King wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > During the Vietnam war some strange ways of avoiding the draft came about. > One worked with the fact that people found guilty of a Federal crime are not > eligible for the draft. Soooo, some law student pointed out that conspiring > to kill a bald eagle is a Federal crime. Not actually killing it, just > conspiring to kill it. So, back to the law books to find the Federal > definition of a conspiracy. Three or more people planning a crime is a > conspiracy. Therefore, make sure that the Feds are listening-in to your > phone call as three of you talk about when you're going to get that eagle. > It was easy back then to be sure the Feds were listening, just make the call > from the local SDS HQ. Did it work? Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:14 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? [MY PLAYERS - GO AWAY!!!] [No idzcie sobie, nie czytajcie tego] Last Sunday I ran first draft of GLASS DOOR on 1 to 1 session (it was supposed to be two players session but the other one did not show up so I replaced him with an NPC). Plot aside, it finished in the point that the PC was sent a cloned and improved version of his girlfriend that was supposed to kill him. She had two personalities - one of the woman and one of the trained killer. He _talked_ her into being his girlfriend (she could be in two mental states and he stabilized one). So she thinks she is the original girlfriend, and she lives with him. She was only a test model so she could be easily abandoned by the senders (the Majestic of course). But I have no idea what could happen next to slightly psychopatic youppie (the PC) and his split-personality girlfriend that is actually enhanced and somewhat unstable superhuman designed for undercover wetwork. Any ideas? Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? --- "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" slightly > psychopatic youppie (the PC) a kind of bateman character clichee? > and his split-personality girlfriend that is > actually enhanced and somewhat > unstable superhuman designed for undercover wetwork. why don´t you let the clone slip into her original function in expecially yuppiesque surroundings? splattering fashion victims, blowing up stylish shops during lunch breaks or while sleepwalking... festus > > Any ideas? > > Alex > -- > C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F > Framling | | * > ; (_O : > +-------------------------------------------------------------+ > --+~| > ! &~) ? | Płyn±ć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie > jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ > A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić > można aż po dno; | | > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:45 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? =?iso-8859-1?q?Dirk=20R.=20Festus=20Festerling?= wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > --- "Janusz A. Urbanowicz" > slightly > > psychopatic youppie (the PC) > > a kind of bateman character clichee? No. Just a random guy who works in advertising agency who had little too much and snapped inside. > > and his split-personality girlfriend that is > > actually enhanced and somewhat > > unstable superhuman designed for undercover wetwork. > > why don_t you let the clone slip into her original > function in expecially yuppiesque surroundings? > > splattering fashion victims, blowing up stylish shops > during lunch breaks or while sleepwalking... I don't like gore . I like it subtle. Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Frank Adams III [fmadamsiii@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? Alex, <> Then have her be like Kathleen Turner in Serial Mom. She seems all normal and nice, but has no real mechanism to tell her NOT to kill that annoying purfume lady at the mall or some door-to-door salesman who won't take no for an answer. Throw in a little cultured Hannibal Lector, balance with a touch of innocent child-like glee and you're up and running. She might see a neighborhood child bullying another one and throw a bizarre scare into the bully in some unexpected and highly professional way... or his parents or his pet... things like that. She might throw out bodies with the trash, or grind 'em up to make burgurs for the neighborhood hood bar-b-que or just leave 'em where they lay - like at the local mall or in the back row of a movie theater where a loud patron annoyed her. If she's good, she'll do it subtly and the randomness will stave off capture and police involvement for a while... or longer. Also, she might have strange work out and exercise routines that may become unnerving or downright dangerous... not to mention finely honed reflexive skills that may cause trouble in normal circumstances. Examples: breaking boyfriend's nose if he wakes her up wrong or during a dream, a throat punch to a friend kidding around and surprising her unexpectedly, etc. I'm not even mentioning what kinky new tastes the clone might have when it comes to their sexual relationship... Just a few thoughts from, The Quiet Man _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of balance@tubas.net Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:54 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? On Thursday, December 13, 2001, at 01:45 PM, Janusz A. Urbanowicz wrote: >>> and his split-personality girlfriend that is >>> actually enhanced and somewhat >>> unstable superhuman designed for undercover wetwork. >> >> why don_t you let the clone slip into her original >> function in expecially yuppiesque surroundings? >> >> splattering fashion victims, blowing up stylish shops >> during lunch breaks or while sleepwalking... > > I don't like gore . I like it subtle. I recently watched a special about multiple personalities that could provide inspiration for you. Essentially, it mentioned that the most common method of handling true multiple personality cases (which are believed to be highly exaggerated. (Some psychologists don't believe in the condition at all)) is to work to integrate the personalities. So, after a blood bath or other unpleasant situation is caused by the two highly individual personalities, the clone has to go to therapy... This is successful, and removes the violent mood changes, but the young lady now believes that killing and disposing of bodies is a very normal, everyday activity. Imagine a cat killing a mouse. Like the cat, she wants to be discreet about it, but she also subconsciously seeks praise for doing her job well, so... Admittedly, making a dependent a trained killer is verging on bending the rules way past breaking, but... Of course, the real question would be where does she get the victim's names? Scenes to ponder: Finding her little 'gifts' scattered around the dwelling while she's arranging disposal. (AGH! There's an arm in the freezer!) Worrying about ordering Thai because the PC is afraid his girl will kill the delivery boy. "Honey, there's a Deep One at the door. I know you're getting dressed for a nice dinner out, but could you help me out?" Enjoy! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Doctor TOC [otherchris@erols.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? balance@tubas.net wrote: > > I recently watched a special about multiple personalities that could > provide inspiration for you. Essentially, it mentioned that the most > common method of handling true multiple personality cases (which are > believed to be highly exaggerated. (Some psychologists don't believe in > the condition at all)) is to work to integrate the personalities. "When Rabbit Howls" is an excellent book on the subject (don't know how accurate it is, but there's a ton of creepy stuff in there), and was the inspiration for the "Crazy Jane" character from Grant Morrison's run on "Doom Patrol". Here's a fun factoid; I was reading about cases of MPD several years ago, and something that intrigued me was mention of a phenomenon that supposedly afflicts certain cases of MPD; when one personality submerges, and another takes over, some patients brains generate a sort of electromagnetic pulse, capable of stopping watches or even knocking out surveillance cameras within a couple of metres. Not sure how true this is, since I can't recall where I read it, but it's a neat idea to use to make life even more difficult for people. Doctor TOC -- The Reverend Doctor "The Other Chris" Secret Elf, Jive Talkin' Choirboy, God of Cowboy Spurs ICQ # 4814586 Daleks! 3D - http://users.rcn.com/otherchris/ Time War RPG - http://jump.to/TimeWar alt.tv.sevendays FAQ - http://welcome.to/7-Days The TOC Files - http://members.fortunecity.com/toc _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:04 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? Frank Adams III wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > to a friend kidding around and surprising her unexpectedly, etc. I'm not > even mentioning what kinky new tastes the clone might have when it comes to > their sexual relationship... I thought of this, but differently - when she is 'she', she's prettny normal, but when she killed (she already killed her other target for the mission) sho switches for the killer mindset (I imagine this as he was imprinted with mind of Majestic wetwork operator) with some weird sexual tastes like watching latex fetish videos on the night after. Alex -- C _-=-_ H| Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-F Framling | | * ; (_O : +-------------------------------------------------------------+ --+~| ! &~) ? | Płynąć chcę na Wschód, za Suez, gdzie jest dobrem każde zło | l_|/ A ~-=-~ O| Gdzie przykazań brak dziesięciu, a pić można aż po dno; | | _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Thule Society Does anyone have a date for when the Thulegesellschaft dried up? Also, can anyone who has the Cthulhu Live: Delta Green book please email me at ellocotoro@aol.com with a summary or something? I'm writing up some material concerning the Thule Society for DGWWII and I'd like to see what DGLive has to say about them. Also, if a respectable anthropolgist were to publish a radical article the origins of humanity in the late 1930s, where would he do so? --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of turner23@thehub.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 5:21 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? Doctor TOC wrote: > Here's a fun factoid; I was reading about cases of MPD several years > ago, and something that intrigued me was mention of a phenomenon that > supposedly afflicts certain cases of MPD; when one personality > submerges, and another takes over, some patients brains generate a sort > of electromagnetic pulse, capable of stopping watches or even knocking > out surveillance cameras within a couple of metres. Not sure how true > this is, since I can't recall where I read it, but it's a neat idea to > use to make life even more difficult for people. > Doctor TOC from a resource material from way back, there are even some cases of mpd whereby the persons brain scans change pattern when a new personality takes over. also there can be physiological changes between personae. the case in question that i'm thinking of here was found to actually require glasses in one personality, while the dominant personality had perfect 20/20 vision. bonus points for the person who can tell me the media source of that last factoid. the lizard should know if he kept up with his lore. agent fiend from the other down under. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:51 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green Has anyone used DG/Coc to play non-Mythos espionage scenarios? One of the things that excites me about DG is that I'm an old Victory Games James Bond 007 fan, and I can see potential to run very similar types of scenarios here -- with the players being CIA, FBI, etc, and no mention of DG. I'm also thinking of two ways to incorprate this into DG. First, advertise the campaign as "espionage using CoC rules" and not mention DG -- and after a "straight" adventure or two, introduce the Mythos and have the players be recruited; or run DG and put the agents through a totally straight espionage scenario with no Mythos or paranormal overtones, and watch them jump at shadows waiting for the weirdness to jump out. -berin ******** http://unclebear.com/deltagreen "According to Gallup polls, only 10% of Americans say they hold a secular view of the world, while 44% believe in strict biblical creationism. Four million also believe they have been abducted by Aliens. The Economist urges [presidential] candidates to address the vital question this finding raises. Should schools teach survival courses for those threatened with alien abduction?" -- From the Economist, regarding the teaching of evolution in schools --- "Anarchy" wrote: >> Is there any chance we'll see any Delta Green role-playing material in the >> near future? > >I can't speak for actual setting material, but I'm currently writing an >Equipment guide that I'm hoping to get published for DG. Mr. Tynes has >expressed an interest, and I'm being very thorough with it. Some chapters >are Surveillance, Surveillance Countermeasures, Disguised Weaponry, >Automobile Modification, Poisons & Toxins, Night-Vision Equipment. I should >have a preliminary copy finished soon. > > Scott / Anarchy > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:49 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] What the hell I'm supposed to do? ----- Original Message ----- From: > also there can be physiological changes between personae. the case > in question that i'm thinking of here was found to actually require > glasses in one personality, while the dominant personality had > perfect 20/20 vision. > > bonus points for the person who can tell me the media source of > that last factoid. the lizard should know if he kept up with > his lore. Actually, my original source was Paddy Chayevsky in his novel "Altered States," which had a very interesting bibliography. Anything I read after that sort of got filed away as confirming the observation. However, there was a NY Times article from 1988 entitled "Probing the enigma of multiple personality" by a D. Golman which I had in my notes as a source. That was probably in the footnotes of something else, or was collected in some source I read. But check it out, eyesight (which could conceivably be altered by muscle contraction) is only one altered body state. MPD personalities also display different eye colors (!?). Also, some personalities can have diabetes, allergies or asthma while the other is unaffected. Different personalities even show up differently under x-rays(?! Andy?). Severe schizophrenics also go through bodily changes, as if they are trying to become some sort of internal picture of themselves. When you consider that MK-ULTRA was trying to artificially create MPD in order to have perfect "Manchurian Candidate" moles, they probably saw all kinds of stuff like this, as well as exhibitions of psychic phenomena. Pushing a personality through stress to acquire new abilities was in the plot of "Rules of Engagement" as well. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Machiavelli132@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:55 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Thule Society <<<,,Also, can anyone who has the Cthulhu Live: Delta Green book please email me at ellocotoro@aol.com with a summary or something? I'm writing up some material concerning the Thule Society for DGWWII and I'd like to see what DGLive has to say about them.>>>>> Actually, I too am curious about this product. How much Delta Green source material does it have? Is anyone using it in their regular RPG campaigns? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of talaphid [isa@zerg.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Cryptonomicon I was thinking, most of the way through the Cryptonomicon, what if the gaffes of the CIA were, in fact, a part of a planned disinformation about the Agency's ability/competitency, something similar to, but far more audacious, than the Detachment 2702 of the text? That there have been no mistakes, no unknowns, and nothing above or beneath the radar, so to speak? _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:40 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Thule Society From: > <<<,,Also, can anyone who has the Cthulhu Live: Delta Green book please email > me > at ellocotoro@aol.com with a summary or something? I'm writing up some > material concerning the Thule Society for DGWWII and I'd like to see what > DGLive has to say about them.>>>>> > > Actually, I too am curious about this product. How much Delta Green source > material does it have? Is anyone using it in their regular RPG campaigns? I found CL:DG to be a very good investment, and I don't LARP (not that I wouldn't mind; I just don't have anyone to do it with). It has plenty of campaign expansion material, a good start on tradecraft (though I'd like to see something more detailed eventually), and a pretty cool alternate combat system which seems like it'd work well for both Live and Table-top RPGing. I don't have it here at the office--that's just what I remember from reading it a couple of months ago. In other words, well worth getting. Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green -----Original Message----- From: Anarchy >> Is there any chance we'll see any Delta Green role-playing material in the >> near future? > >I can't speak for actual setting material, but I'm currently writing an >Equipment guide that I'm hoping to get published for DG. Mr. Tynes has >expressed an interest, and I'm being very thorough with it. Some chapters >are Surveillance, Surveillance Countermeasures, Disguised Weaponry, >Automobile Modification, Poisons & Toxins, Night-Vision Equipment. I should >have a preliminary copy finished soon. For Delta Green, the overriding theme should be how all this high tech wonkery interacts with mythos creatures. In other words, the technical info is for players, but how the stuff can be used to increase the horror of it all is for the keepers. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:26 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green >On 13 December 2001, "Anarchy" reported:: > >>I can't speak for actual setting material, but I'm currently writing an >>Equipment guide that I'm hoping to get published for DG. Mr. Tynes has >>expressed an interest, and I'm being very thorough with it. Some chapters >>are Surveillance, Surveillance Countermeasures, Disguised Weaponry, >>Automobile Modification, Poisons & Toxins, Night-Vision Equipment. I >>should >>have a preliminary copy finished soon. > > Now, _that_ definitely sounds interesting! When it gets printed, I'll >be interested in getting a copy! Count me in on that one, too. But, given the current climate about terrorists and 'terror manuals,' I'd suggest giving it a fairly innocuous name... like, say, "Pat the Tweety-Bird." ; ) In all seriousness, I wish you amazing luck! : ) J. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@fukuoka-u.ac.jp] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:50 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green From: "Berin Kinsman" >>> Has anyone used DG/Coc to play non-Mythos espionage scenarios? One of the things that excites me about DG is that I'm an old Victory Games James Bond 007 fan, and I can see potential to run very similar types of scenarios here -- with the players being CIA, FBI, etc, and no mention of DG.<<< Back in the day, when I'd have 3 or 4 campaigns of various kinds running simultaneously, I'd adapt Basic Role-Playing (the core engine for CoC, Runequest, Ringworld, Elfquest, and others, most of which are sleeping with Cthulhu now) to just about any genre; I've run Westerns, espionage (way before I ever heard of DG), time-travel, and a weird little Highlander game, all using BRP. The nice thing about using DG as a sourcebook, you've got lots of background info. It doesn't talk much about how characters should act on a normal case, though--for that, I again recommend Cthulhu Live: Delta Green's "Tradecraft" section, and hopefully we'll soon see a supplement to expand on that. Me, I mostly want Tradecraft so that my players can avoid acting in ways that would get any realistic CIA/FBI/whatever agent fired (and possibly imprisoned). At least then they won't have an excuse when they become the object of a nationwide manhunt. "But you never told me I'd get in trouble for submachinegunning those apparently innocent Tcho-tchos to death in broad daylight in front of a crowd of witnesses!" The other applications will be nice too, but that's the main thing for me: how to play the role in ways that are not totally stupid. >>> I'm also thinking of two ways to incorprate this into DG. First, advertise the campaign as "espionage using CoC rules" and not mention DG -- and after a "straight" adventure or two, introduce the Mythos and have the players be recruited; or run DG and put the agents through a totally straight espionage scenario with no Mythos or paranormal overtones, and watch them jump at shadows waiting for the weirdness to jump out. <<< Sounds good to me, but with a caveat: Davide Mana did something like this in his Across the Fence campaign, set in the Vietnam War, and I seem to remember it worked out OK. However, the MiB took offense to the idea of "misinforming" the players about the genre. While I don't think most people, myself included, would have any problem with their GM doing that, I assume the MiB's attitude is not unique. Just be sure you know that it's the kind of thing that will entertain your players, rather than make them march out of the game in anger. I'd love it myself, but not everybody thinks like me. But they will as soon as I can get my mind-control lasers working... Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jürgen Hubert [jhubert@gmx.de] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:32 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green > From: "Berin Kinsman" > Me, I mostly want Tradecraft so that my players can avoid acting in ways > that would get any realistic CIA/FBI/whatever agent fired (and possibly > imprisoned). At least then they won't have an excuse when they become the > object of a nationwide manhunt. "But you never told me I'd get in trouble > for submachinegunning those apparently innocent Tcho-tchos to death in > broad > daylight in front of a crowd of witnesses!" > > The other applications will be nice too, but that's the main thing for me: > how to play the role in ways that are not totally stupid. The newly released "GURPS Cops" could help with that. Granted, it mostly focuses on local police rather than federal agent, but lots of it is applicable to FBI agents, too. But a whole book on Tradecraft _would_ be nice, I'll admit... - Juergen Hubert -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dave Farnell [superdave@jcom.home.ne.jp] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:12 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green From: "Jürgen Hubert" > The newly released "GURPS Cops" could help with that. Granted, it mostly > focuses on local police rather than federal agent, but lots of it is applicable > to FBI agents, too. > > But a whole book on Tradecraft _would_ be nice, I'll admit... Yep, I might be picking that up on my upcoming trip to America. But something for various Fed Agencies (with sections for PISCES and Saucerwatch, et al., too, maybe?) would be great. Hey, Tradecraft List folks--how's it coming? Dave _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of James Knevitt [psipsina@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:50 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Representing the CoC Genre (was: The Future of Delta Green) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berin Kinsman": > I'm also thinking of two ways to incorprate this into DG. First, advertise the campaign as "espionage using CoC rules" and not mention DG -- and after a "straight" adventure or two, introduce the Mythos and have the players be recruited; Heh. That reminds me of a story a friend told me way back of a GM who introduced his group to a new 1930's gangster game he was trying out. The best part was apparently when, halfway through the camapign, the GM dropped a full-on CoC adventure on them. This is when he politely informed them that they'd been playing a CoC game all along, and the actions of the characters had inadvertently led to their interaction with the Mythos at this point. By all accounts, the players loved it and it was a rather fantastic campaign after that. James --- "I can't believe what a bunch of nerds we are. We're looking up money laundering in the dictionary." - Office Space _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:59 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green On 14 December 2001, "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" said: >>On 13 December 2001, "Anarchy" reported:: >> >>>I can't speak for actual setting material, but I'm currently writing an >>>Equipment guide that I'm hoping to get published for DG. Mr. Tynes has >>>expressed an interest, and I'm being very thorough with it. Some chapters >>>are Surveillance, Surveillance Countermeasures, Disguised Weaponry, >>>Automobile Modification, Poisons & Toxins, Night-Vision Equipment. I >>>should >>>have a preliminary copy finished soon. >> >> Now, _that_ definitely sounds interesting! When it gets printed, I'll >>be interested in getting a copy! > >Count me in on that one, too. > >But, given the current climate about terrorists and 'terror manuals,' I'd >suggest giving it a fairly innocuous name... And the author's byline shouldn't be your list name of "Anarchy" -- men with dark glasses, three-piece suits, concealed radios with earbuds, and no sense of humor would grab it immediately if it were! These days, they would confiscate a Regency Romance, and spend hours taking notes and going "Hmmmmm...", if the author's name happened to be "Anarchy"!:) Even Harry Potter can be dangerous, these days! Allegedly, at the airport in Philadelphia, a college student was refused boarding on an airliner because a security type decided the "Harry Potter" book the student was carrying was "dangerous and subversive"... I'll have to be careful not to bring along my US Army Explosives and Demolitions Manual, the next time I use commercial transportation!:) like, say, "Pat the >Tweety-Bird." Shure, and with a name like "Pat", it must be an _Irish_ Tweety-Bird!:) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Brett Dixon [balance@tubas.net] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:17 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Cryptonomicon On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, talaphid wrote: > I was thinking, most of the way through the Cryptonomicon, what if the > gaffes of the CIA were, in fact, a part of a planned disinformation about > the Agency's ability/competitency, something similar to, but far more > audacious, than the Detachment 2702 of the text? That there have been no > mistakes, no unknowns, and nothing above or beneath the radar, so to speak? When I start the DG campaign i'm considering, the NSA will be a common central element. The idea of supercomputers quietly working in dark rooms in the basement, possibly calculating summoning spells for insane masters works for me. of course, the NSA will not be completely evil... Only a small core that has a very vaugely defined mission and doesn;t quite realize what they're doing. For scenery, I'm thinking of the old-style Crays that were these bizare round pillar shapes with what looked like a round bench around it ("Where's the supercomputer? You're sitting on it!") along with my own experiences working in a data center, albeit a small one. A fire fight with some thing in a large, warehouse-sized data center is another interesting idea... The chill temperatures, the rows of machines that make all sorts of different random noises, etc.. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Cryptonomicon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Dixon" > For scenery, I'm thinking of the old-style Crays that were these bizare > round pillar shapes with what looked like a round bench around it > ("Where's the supercomputer? You're sitting on it!") along with my own > experiences working in a data center, albeit a small one. A fire fight > with some thing in a large, warehouse-sized data center is another > interesting idea... The chill temperatures, the rows of machines that make > all sorts of different random noises, etc.. Not to speak of the possibility that neither side dare hit the computers; that someone might trip the halon system, asphyxiating both sides; or that one side might be desparately trying to program something into the computers (to stop/modify those Mythos calculations) while the fight is going on. Programming correctly with slugs whistling round your ears would be an interesting experience. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of balance@tubas.net Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:43 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Cryptonomicon On Friday, December 14, 2001, at 12:42 PM, Andy Robertson wrote: > Not to speak of the possibility that neither side dare hit the > computers; > that someone might trip the halon system, asphyxiating both sides; or > that > one side might be desparately trying to program something into the > computers > (to stop/modify those Mythos calculations) while the fight is going on. Very good points... The NSA still probably has a Halon system (They are illegal/expensive to maintain/plain unwanted in Maryland from what i hear by talking to the Data Center admin). > Programming correctly with slugs whistling round your ears would be an > interesting experience. Very critical idea. This scenario must be done in a way that makes swisscheesing the computer fruitless. of course, I can see PCs ventilating a terminal that means nothing to the computer, but an even better plan would be to require a binding spell be entered in the PC or simple that ending the endless calculation would be much worse. However, I want to avoid the default situations here. I don't want the Cray to be possessed (it's been done so many times before) and I think the idea of a machine that begins to rival the human mind in complexity endlessly computing has some sort of value to me. Kind of like the mythos imagery of an insane cultist endlessly repeating the h-word. Some more Data Center imagery: It's noisy, but in a weird way. There's a constant whir of fans with irregular beeps. the beeps come from all directions, so you tend to start looking all around the room wildly. In larger setups (Like a government shop where conformity may be valued over efficiency), rows may become so uniform as to resemble the 'gun room' from the matrix. Principle colors are often white and grey, with machines in white, nlack, and a range of colors in between, but some companies like Sun are known for the bright purple they use. Don't forget the floor, either. It's commonly raised with several inches of clearance beneath. The tiles (The ones we use are metal with a solid concrete core that is heavy and likely bulletproof) hide a rat's nest of cables for power, networking, and other materials as well as cooling and the like. it'd be near=impossible for a man to crawl around in the floor, but what about that /thing?/ The doors are secure... The one I work in has a large plate-glass window, but that has a garage-door style fire shutter. An important element is vision. You can't see more than a few feet unless you are looking straight down an isle. If you do that, your peripheral vision is blocked. Imagine a library, but much more cramped. This may be even worse if it's like some hosting facilities where the rows are not formed of computer racks, but over cages so that clients cannot access machines they don't own. In my work, lighting is standard office-style bright fluorescent made worse by the white walls, floor, and racks. In some places I've visited, the room is dark except where people are working, I worked at night for a while, and the data center at night can be unnerving. if you think you hear someone you have to attempt to find them which is often a difficult task due to the vision problems, the distorted sound, etc. If you are used to the data center, a shutdown is even more intimidating, although that may be because of the long night that usually means. As this idea is expanded. I'll probably add some 'grey area' material concerning civil liberties, free speech, and possibly even a data haven (Wow, cranking it back to Cryptonomicon here!) just to keep things interesting. On the one hand, DG would be for the idea of public strong encryption since it gives them their ability to coordinate, but on the other hand their government background might make them oppose it... and of course they will be frustrated when their NSA contacts take hours to decrypt files from those wacky cultists. --Brett (Hoping I didn't bore everyone too much with talking about work.) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green From: David Farnell >Sounds good to me, but with a caveat: Davide Mana did something like this in >his Across the Fence campaign, set in the Vietnam War, and I seem to >remember it worked out OK. However, the MiB took offense to the idea of >"misinforming" the players about the genre. While I don't think most people, >myself included, would have any problem with their GM doing that, I assume >the MiB's attitude is not unique. Actually a "shocking swerve" like a genre switch is something that can be very effective in a role playing game. The fact that the players told the Diabolical Dr. Mana that they were sick of horror gaming and wanted a break, and then he slapped the Cthulhu stuff on em anyway was what I objected to. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dan Allard [dan@jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green > Sounds good to me, but with a caveat: Davide Mana did something like this in > his Across the Fence campaign, set in the Vietnam War, and I seem to > remember it worked out OK. However, the MiB took offense to the idea of > "misinforming" the players about the genre. While I don't think most people, > myself included, would have any problem with their GM doing that, I assume > the MiB's attitude is not unique. Just be sure you know that it's the kind > of thing that will entertain your players, rather than make them march out > of the game in anger. I'd love it myself, but not everybody thinks like me. I have to agree that really knowing your group is vital if you're going to pull some kind of bait and switch (which this really is). I would never, for example, try this on my on-and-off again work gaming group which gets together at best once every two weeks; all of us are working parents for whom carving out one solid night is difficult enough, and pretty much everyone walks in geared up for whatever it is we're going to play (typically epic high fantasy). On the other hand, I lived with several regular gaming friends back in college so there were all sorts of one-shots and mulitple campaigns going on at the same time, a major switch like this one would likely have been considered a great night of gaming. dan _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Dirk R. Festus Festerling [festusdirk@yahoo.de] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Thule Society --- ElLocoToro@aol.com schrieb: > Also, if a respectable anthropolgist were to publish > a radical article the > origins of humanity in the late 1930s, where would > he do so? don´t know about the english-speaking world or even german periodicals, but the german places to publish books are leipzig (more traditional) or berlin (e.g. ahnenerbe founded its own berlin publishing house in the dahlem university suburb). festus __________________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:10 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green Greetings. SuperDave pointed out that > >the MiB's attitude is not unique. And the MiB clarified his position. >Actually a "shocking swerve" like a genre switch is something that can >be very effective in a role playing game. The fact that the players told >the Diabolical Dr. Mana that they were sick of horror gaming and wanted >a break, and then he slapped the Cthulhu stuff on em anyway was what I >objected to. To be even more precise - two players (out of seven) started lobbying because they found Call of Cthulhu (and not horror gaming in general) "too scary" or "too boring" (weird mix, eh?). One of the two only had one CoC game as previous experience and was simply following the cue of her friend, who wanted (and still wants) us to go back and play Toon. I listened to their objections and we discussed it with the rest of the team. I explained not all CoC was what they had seen up to that point. Considering I had this books called "Delta Something or Other" on the shelf, I asked them if they'd be willing to trust me and try one single one-nite game to see a different kind of approach to the setting. They replied verbatim "Tell us when that single night will be and we'll stay home". So I simply did not tell them. They enjoyed the game. So sue me. What we were dealing with back then (and later events demonstrated it) was one player in particular getting the "prima donna syndrome" - also known as "I'm so good and indespensable that I'm gonna be in charge from now on", or "Kostner's disease". Anyway, I do not want to get into that old discussion with the MiB again. Not when he's fresh back from wherever he was and has yet to thrash the newbies. I fully subscribe SuperDave's policy of taking your players feelings into account when planning a game. Just don't let that be a way for some sucker to try and morally blackmail you. End of rant. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:19 PM To: Dgrpg (E-mail) Subject: [DG] Majestic killing DNA researchers? While the conspiracy planet link sounds like the plot to Deus-Ex, there could be other reasons: * A leaking of cookbook data to unauthorized scientists is getting cleaned up. * The scientists are developing competing products to those manufactured by Justin Kroft's companies. * OUTLOOK just had some layoffs. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011214/ts/biophysicist_slain_3.html "Va. Biophysicist Killed; 3 Charged LEESBURG, Va. (AP) - Three friends are accused of fatally stabbing a prominent biophysicist with a 2-foot sword in a ``planned assassination'' that investigators said had ritualistic overtones." http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/ "Dead Scientists, Big Hoodoo by PATRICIA DOYLE Over the past few weeks several world-acclaimed researchers, geniuses by many accounts, specializing in infectious diseases, as well as DNA sequencing have been found dead or have been missing. I believe these scientists were unaware of their participation in the developing of a genetic bioweapon that will wipe out as much as one third of the population on planet earth." _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:21 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] The Future of Delta Green <> Is there a tradecraft list yet? Where can it be found? Shane Ivey www.RevolutionSF.com www.Delta-Green.com www.hobgoblynn.com/godlike _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:22 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Thule Society A book seems like a good idea. Thanks Festus. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/