From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 2:24 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff Gil Trevizo wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > At 02:04 PM 12/28/2001 +0100, Janusz A. Urbanowicz wrote: > >Because 'computer use' is a completely different thing that making a > >successfull query into search engines. > > You do realize that in the United States, most searches in libraries are no > longer done with paper card catalogs but with computerized search engines, > which, in my experience, work almost exactly like Internet search engines. I realize, but we differ in experiences :-) I do used computerized library catalogs, but the software the univ was using was developed by UNESCO and was, well, very interesting to use. Finding a book was similar to execution of a rather complicated SQL query by hand, but, unlike SQL, it _lacked_ the simple, natural, substring search, damn. And then you had to 'store' the query results to reference actual catalog entries. In short, it was a complete abomination of database user interface design. So I overgeneralized a little. But remember, checking entries in a catalogue isn't the only aspect of Library Use. There are other things - interlibrary loans, getting access to the books in 'special collections' - _not_ listed in the public catalogue (I don't think that there is a standard library card of Necronomicon at Miskatonic U Library), etc. But, counting all the changes etc, I thing the best thing we can do is to drop Library Use and use Research. Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 2:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff - since we are talking about it . . . Greetings. The Glove Cleaner sees it from a distance and writes.... >Splendid! > >It is good to know that the blood that flowered in the Borgias has not yet >run thin. How proud you must be of your people! I have to admit that being on the receiving end of these people's machinations instills in me other sentiments than pride. Just for the record, the man now happily planning to thrash Micro$soft was once suspected of being one of the minds behind the "message" sent in the '70s to politically-embarrassing playwright/actor/jester Dario Fo. To let him know his tales about political corruption and social mayhem were damaging Italy's reputation, a group of secret service men assaulted and gang-raped Fo's wife, actress Franca Rame. So no, pride is no part of it. But from a very clinical POV, yes, we still have some elements of the old blue-blood cloak-and-dagger politicians hereabouts. The fact that they ran rampant through our recent history basically doing what they wanted out in the open could lead some less-enlightened soul to think this might cause the Italian public to be extremely cynical, politics-wise. facts sadly show daily that it is not so - this country is peopled by a silent majority composed of the most credulous, politically inept individuals ever seen around. Italians are still suckers for something - anything - to believe in, to the point of masochism - witness the current state of the nation. Oh, I better climb down my soapbox. sorry. Davide Mana Looking for a job _abroad_ Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Ross Howard [r.howard@angelfire.com] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:53 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] CoC : Things you'd change in a New Edition. -- On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 05:03:41 ReflectingSkin wrote: >I'd like to see all HTH skills reduced to a Brawling skill with fist/punch, >kick, headbutt, etc. being manuevers >that modify the base Brawling Skill Level. (ie, Brawl of 10% but Your >PUNCHING add +15% or something) >HTH is not that common in CoC, and it takes to many skill points to be even >half-way decent in a fistfight Hear hear! I must admit, one of the few things that bugs me about the COC system is the difficulty of making some characters as good as they should be. Skill proliferation doesn't help. The hand to hand skills are a prime example: sure I can punch, and even kick, but sadly I have no ability to grasp and my head just flops about uselessly. And if you want to be a decent martial artist you end up being incapable of pretty much anything else. Regarding the Computer Use skill, I find it works fine as it is, but then I am not at all technically minded and tend to fudge a lot in that area. However, it would be great to see some hacking guidelines such as those Alex was suggesting. I'd also suggest that rather than the 'google' skill existing at base INT level, that all modern characters be given Computer Use at INT level, unless they're specifically computer illiterate. Library Use - it's a classic name, but Research definitely sounds better for a modern game. >And I'd like to see the Sanity System revised...The San System in >Unknown Armies, strikes me as so much better, some sort of horrible hybrid >San System would probably be best. The Unknown armies sanity system is probably the best I've seen (although I've been told good things about the one in SLA industries - anyone checked that out?) However, as it stands, it suits UA much better than COC. Isn't there something buried in the ICE cave? Must go and poke aroound... Ross Howard England "Never, ever, f*** with an antiques dealer." Is your boss reading your email? ....Probably Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail. Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 4:48 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff From: Janusz A. Urbanowicz >I'm also toying with the idea of dropping Computer Use at all. Why? >Drop 'Computer Use' completely. For everyday things we can use appropriate >skills, like Accounting or Mathematics for doing calculations, Navigate for >using Mapquest, Track or Research (I like the idea) for doing background >check via Internet etc. For doing computer intensive things like writing a >program that does so and so that is not covered by the other skills, >analyzing a program, and the things that I covered via INFOSEC, use >'Hacking' (as in the banging out code) which in fact represents the ability >of computing-oriented analysis of problem and converting it into code (or >vice versa). GURPS (the best system ever) handles it in the following way: Computer Operation (mental/easy) Computer Programming (mental/hard) Computer Hacking (mental very hard) Computer operation is rapidly becoming the equivalent of literacy though, as the internet worms its way into every aspect of life. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Davide Mana [michelina.ponsetto@tin.it] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 5:21 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff Greetings. The MiB wrote.... >GURPS (the best system ever) After wading through D&D 3rd. ed. I'm ready to agree with you ;-/ Pity the books are getting more expensive (here in Europe at least). >handles it in the following way: > >Computer Operation (mental/easy) >Computer Programming (mental/hard) >Computer Hacking (mental very hard) > >Computer operation is rapidly becoming the equivalent of literacy >though, as the internet worms its way into every aspect of life. And yet, when it comes to Linux/Unix machines, that's not that easy anymore. Sure, you can start a Windows-like app from the prompt - provided you know what to do when facing the Great Black Screen. I was rather surprised when I discovered no-one of the kids in my Japanese classes (Born in the late '70s) ever handled Windows 3.11, let's don't even mention DOS . They are great when it comes to Win)x or whatever, but faced with the classic C:\> they suddenly get sweaty palms. Now put down that flamethrower - I'm not gonna start a My System's Better Than Yours thing on this list. I just point out the fact that the comparison with Literacy works, as long as you allow for different languages. Am I stating the obvious? Yes, I'm stating the obvious. Davide Mana States the obvious like no other Torino, Italy _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ReflectingSkin [reflectingskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 5:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 Okay. I'd like to get a team of our nitpicky rules-heads, flavor geeks, etc. To start a little in-house project. Anyone want to start a Private Yahoo Club for this? Or should I do it? Anyone wanna donate non-yahoo web-hosting? Here's the plan; (as I see it. you may see more. Please add) Re-worked San Rules Re-worked combat rules SKILL REVISIONS/DESCRIPTIONS Anything else? -ReSkin _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 5:40 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Historical dicks I often like to make references to the urban legend that the Smithsonian has John Dillinger's dick somewhere on a shelf. Probably in the Special Collection and under tighter security than the copies of the Necronomicon. The idea tickles me, and it's got a lot of warm associations for me since it was one of the first urban legend I encountered with the knowledge of urban legends. Reminiscing about all the clues pointing to Dillinger's dick in the Smithsonian is like watching "It's a Wonderful Life" at Xmas for me. It turns out that the subject was introduced to me by Robert Anton Wilson before I was consciously seeking stuff by Robert Anton Wilson, when he was writing for Oui Magazine back when it was cool. In the early 70s it was the home of articles by people like Wilson and Timothy Leary. Introductions to conspiracy theory and Leary's account of his conversations with Charles Manson in prison. Over the course of months there were short articles tracking down the provenance of the Dillinger's dick legend. Hey, people dipped their handkerchiefs in his blood at the site of his death; the guy was an icon and everyone wanted a souvenir. But would someone go so far as to abscond with the willy? Well, it was legendary during his lifetime as well. Let's just say he died by firing squad but was well hung nonetheless. Historical revisionists claim that the legends sprang from his habit of tucking a sawed-off shotgun down the front of his trousers during bank robberies, but I think they are just jealous. Anyone who feels that I spend an inordinate amount of time yalking about dicks should remember that classical Greek comedy was performed in shorter tunics that left the willies exposed. Dicks are a staple of comedy. To paraphrase Sir John Falstaff: "Deny dicks and deny the world." Well, it seems that stealing the privates of public figures is not an American innovation. From http://cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~morin/misc/np/ : "For the uninitiated, Napoleon's penis is said to have been taken from him by the Abbé who delivered last rites. Since then it has been sold, inherited and auctioned many times." Think about that. It wasn't a family member that saved the familiar member, and it wasn't a lone nut. The *Abbé* did it. "The current whereabouts of Napoleon's penis is still a matter of some dispute, though by most accounts it is in the posession of an american urologist named John Kingsley Lattimer who paid $38,000 for it at a 1969 auction. In addition to alledgedly owning Napoleon's penis, Lattimer is famous for supervising the health of german war criminals during the Nuremberg trials and writing several investigative pieces about the assasinations of John F. Kennedy and Abraham Lincoln." A ha! Makes you wonder if he has the Lincoln Log and PT 109 stashed away as well. No wonder the details of Kennedy's autopsy are so disputed. Lessee, the bullet entered behind his head, emerged from his throat, dove for his groin and blew his dick off, then went for John Connelly. Now THAT is a Magic Bullet. I hear he dressed back and to the left. From http://www.urbanlegends.com/sex/napoleons_lost_bonaparte.html: "French historian Jean Tulard says: "It is profane! Incredible but possible.... There is not a single significant document authenticating this claim ... only, perhaps, a note from Vignali", a cleric Napoleon insulted when offered the last rites. The note reportedly said, "Voila'! I have it."" OK, fun time over. Sure, dicks are funny, but they are also powerful magickal icons. Even more powerful than the original owner probably thought it was. A Hand of Glory would be nothing compared to a Dick of Glory. Once the spectre of the penis stealers is invoked, you can't help wondering if the various Unknown Soldiers were buried intact. What's buried in Grant's Tomb? Most of Grant. Now we know why Lenin is entombed publicly behind glass, with guards 24\7. Pictures only, please. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Tim Betz [vag@arsimagica.net] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 6:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, Davide Mana wrote: > I just point out the fact that the comparison with Literacy works, as long > as you allow for different languages. > I think you'll find the majority of people above 25 learned to use computers at work, and they know how to use whatever environment that the company uses (MS Office perhaps). Sit them down with another system (say Lotus) and they will stare at it for a bit before going and asking a co-worker how to do something. I'd hope the current bunch of highschoolers would cope better, but they'll probably just end up knowing enough about computers to be dangerous... At any rate, I would suggest something along the lines of subtract your character's age from 40. If you have anything left, that's your base Computer Literacy. Of course what is really needed is a complex mathematical formula so I can ensure all my players take 40 year old characters :) -- Tim _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 6:12 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davide Mana" > I was rather surprised when I discovered no-one of the kids in my Japanese > classes (Born in the late '70s) ever handled Windows 3.11, let's don't even > mention DOS . > They are great when it comes to Win)x or whatever, but faced with the classic > > C:\> > > they suddenly get sweaty palms. Imagine my surprise when I'd coach technicians and Help Desk staff who could bring up Edit to edit an autoexec.bat or somesuch, but could not navigate in it without a mouse. Never learned the keystrokes to move around or cut&paste. When confronted with a C:\ they would freeze, unaware of commands such as dir or cd. They had been through school, had enough credentials to be hired to support the users, but only knew the latest versions of hardware and software. Computer Use isn't rapidly becoming a given for the general public; only in our little world. Most of the users are at the "monkey see monkey do" level. They know how to access and use specific things that never move, but they don't play with it and do not *want* to know how any of it works. I would get calls asking how to get an icon off of a desktop. The Delete key is the most frightening thing on the keyboard, to be used only by people who know what they are doing. Better to just call the Help Desk than risk doing something wrong. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 5:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] dicks ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > OK, fun time over. Sure, dicks are funny, but they are also > powerful magickal icons. Even more powerful than the original > owner probably thought it was. A Hand of Glory would be nothing > compared to a Dick of Glory. We live in a profoudly anti-sex and anti-reproduction culture. You have made a start, O Lizard King, but it is still impossible for us to easily or naturally adopt a *realistic* attitude to sex and the bits of us that are involved in it. In sober fact, begetting children is the nearest most people ever get to existential godhood. It is creating a new conscious being and arguably creating a whole new universe. Well, am I right, or am I right? What else is it? It's a scientific fact, damn it. I know every Tom *ick and Harry can do it, but the essential nature of some thing has nothing to do with its frequency. And it is funny, what strange things we are. Some people want this to be a meaningless lollipop of sensaation. Some believe it should be a matter of shame. It just makes me reflect again how enslaved we are, how far from just being ourselves. The Glove Cleaner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 7:24 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 Perhaps revised combat rules? CoC combat is always, at best, sketchy. Mabey a system with no significant lag compared to the present one, but that runs much smoother and more realistic? Yeah, yeah, pipes dreams, I know. But it could/would be interesting to see if a team can pull it off. Oh, and I'll definitely volenteer some spare time if you need it. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of TheGreatCthulhuz@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 7:25 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 Sorry about that...I meant magic, not combat. I don't know what got into me. My offer still stands. From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:30 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 ReflectingSkin wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > I'd like to get a team of our nitpicky rules-heads, flavor geeks, etc. > To start a little in-house project. Damn! I opened the can of worms. Yet another project to monitor, yet another list I'd like to be subscribed to... > Anyone want to start a Private Yahoo Club for this? Or should I do it? > Anyone wanna donate non-yahoo web-hosting? Don't do it, don't use the bloody Yahoo! I'll setup the mailing list at one of the sites I'm root at and ca do this legally. Stay tuned, this should be ready on Sunday (its three at the morning here, I need to sleep some). > Here's the plan; (as I see it. you may see more. Please add) > > Re-worked San Rules > Re-worked combat rules > SKILL REVISIONS/DESCRIPTIONS > > Anything else? I think that the stuff can be divided in two groups. One is - ironing the wrinkles of BRP as we know it. This is the skills revisions stuff. BRP is not very good mechanics but it is lightweight and playable (the sketchiness is a feature, not a bug). The second approach is to rewrite it heavily, and personally, I wouldn't do that. If one doesn't like BRP, port CoC/DG to a modern mechanics with skills and difficulty levels, and don't reinvent the wheel. Yes, I have the likely cancidates - one is my favourite GDW system (as in Twilight 2000 and Traveller the New Era), the second is very modern stuff - Greg Porter's Conspiracy Oriented Role Playing System (CORPS). Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:33 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff The Man in Black wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > From: Janusz A. Urbanowicz > > > I'm also toying with the idea of dropping Computer Use at all. Why? > > Drop 'Computer Use' completely. For everyday things we can use > > appropriate skills, like Accounting or Mathematics for doing > > calculations, Navigate for using Mapquest, Track or Research (I like the > > idea) for doing background check via Internet etc. For doing computer > > intensive things like writing a program that does so and so that is not > > covered by the other skills, analyzing a program, and the things that I > > covered via INFOSEC, use 'Hacking' (as in the banging out code) which in > > fact represents the ability of computing-oriented analysis of problem > > and converting it into code (or vice versa). > GURPS (the best system ever) handles it in the following way: > > Computer Operation (mental/easy) > Computer Programming (mental/hard) > Computer Hacking (mental very hard) > > Computer operation is rapidly becoming the equivalent of literacy > though, as the internet worms its way into every aspect of life. I agree. But CoC/BRP is sketchy and we shouldn't split just this theme to a fine skills just because it seems important for us. It was MiB that wrote: | Stat and Skill proliferation is a bad thing, so why replace an existing | skill? Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff Davide Mana wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > I just point out the fact that the comparison with Literacy works, as long > as you allow for different languages. > > Am I stating the obvious? > Yes, I'm stating the obvious. It is the same with almost any subject covered by CoC skill system. I'd say the same thing for Handgun. Personally I'm quite familiar with Walther Olympia, and little less with Makarov, but for using more exotic guns I would have to bring my little pocket Jane's hand weapons guide (sorry, don't have the original title handy) where it is decribed how to lock, unlock and unload almost all guns produced by humans. And then the same for Physics. And so on and so on. So, there is no direct projection that such and such value of a skill is equivalent to any distinct range of knowledge on the skill. Personally I take the statistical approach. The skill is less the chance of doing something right. It is more a chance of knowing how to do something (at least the skills in the Thought group. Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:50 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Historical dicks There was a punk song called "They Saved Hitler's Cock." I can't remember whether it was by the Replacements, the Descendents or the Dickies, though. But does it really matter? ; ) J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 12:39 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Historical dicks ----- Original Message ----- From: "ialdaloboth *genzundheit!*" > There was a punk song called "They Saved Hitler's Cock." I can't remember > whether it was by the Replacements, the Descendents or the Dickies, though. > > But does it really matter? ; ) Not in the Big Picture. But the band was "Angry Samoans," circa 1978. Check http://www.angrysamoans.com/gif/FamilyTree.gif to see where they fit in the L.A. punk scene. Hehe. They may have saved Hitler's cock, but we got one of his nuts! Taunted the Nazis with it at Bastogne, too. "Nuts" meant "we have one, and we'll get the other," a major spell that turned the Battle of the Bulge around. Why do you think they called it the Battle of the Bulge? You see, it's these details you never get on the History Channel. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jesper Anderson [jesper@pobox.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 3:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Historical dicks On Sat, Dec 29, 2001 at 02:50:16AM +0000, ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* wrote: > There was a punk song called "They Saved Hitler's Cock." I can't remember > whether it was by the Replacements, the Descendents or the Dickies, though. Angry Samoans. > But does it really matter? ; ) Oh yes! Gotta know your old school hardcore!@! Btw, it's good to be back! Jesper -- If I had any humility I would be perfect. -- Ted Turner _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Aardvark of Fnords [nyar@fnord23.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 4:46 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Hacking for Case Officers On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 11:52:36AM -0500, Rayburn, Russell E. wrote: > I did try using 'cracker' a few years ago... most people thought I was > insulting people from the southeastern united states. Help out a poor old limey, and explain how/why "cracker" would insult somebody from the SE USA? [Embdedded links in documents] > Some people seem > to have gotten code to execute on remote machines with similar methods (via > calling an executable in an IMG tag) but I'd have to play with that before > I'd say it worked. I've never seen it download code, but I _have_ seen embedded links to ActiveX controls, which (if you haven't changed your default security settings in IE) can silently download and install software. Of course, I was using mutt on a Solaris system, and was having to read the damn HTML visually, and saw this funky little link. Cute. > > 2) The Default Password. > Douh! Yeah, that's tasty... and so obvious it got by me. Also, when > looking for places to try default passwords, never forget the database > itself... I forgot the database one, as did some online trading companies, leaving credit card details open to all and sundry. Lotus Domino was the culprit I think... [Back Orifice] All hail Cult of the Dead Cow http://www.cultdeadcow.com/ - also to stay even more relevant, read this recent press release: http://cultdeadcow.com/details.php3?listing_id=425 > > 4) The Heist. Basically this is breaking the internet Domain > > Name Service (DNS) to make a website's address, and point it > > at your own. > An effective DOS... but your average ISP's DNS server is (usually) better > defended than the target system. Not always... but usually. You can actually do far more than DOS. You can _pretend_ to be the target site, and garner all forms of interesting data. (Click to enter our secure site...) Jon -- Ying-tong-yiddle-I-po! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Aardvark of Fnords [nyar@fnord23.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 5:13 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] dicks On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 11:41:01PM -0000, Andy Robertson wrote: > And it is funny, what strange things we are. Some people want this to be > a meaningless lollipop of sensaation. Some believe it should be a matter > of shame. It just makes me reflect again how enslaved we are, how far from > just being ourselves. /me puts on his pointy hat, picks up wand, and opens his (very battered) copy of Starhawk "The Spiral Dance": "One of the great disservices a culture of domination has done to all of us is to confuse the erotic with domination and violence. [...] Men in patriarchal cultures are taught to worship the erect phallus, firm and hard. But an eternally hard penis would be awkward to live with, uncomfortable, and unsatisfying. A real, living penis is soft more often than it is hard. The magic quality of the penis is that it moves from soft to hard and back again, that it embodies the cycle of birth, growth, death, and rebirth as it rises, swells, spurts and falls, hopefully to rise again. That is why the Gods are often dying and reviving Gods." Take Starhawk with a Dead Sea's amount of salt. She's a bit too new-age and far too fluffy for me, but the above has both good ideas on culture, and some nice feeders for CoC/DG concepts. I must admit that reading those last two scentances for the first time in a few years, I am suddenly in mind of a resonance of that couplet that everybody on this list should know. Jon, who once had a partner who called their dildo "The Rod of Rassilon" -- Ying-tong-yiddle-I-po! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Aardvark of Fnords [nyar@fnord23.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 5:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff On Fri, Dec 28, 2001 at 04:11:55PM -0800, The Lizard King wrote: > Imagine my surprise when I'd coach technicians and Help Desk staff who > could bring up Edit to edit an autoexec.bat or somesuch, but could not > navigate in it without a mouse. Never learned the keystrokes to move around > or cut&paste. *grin* It used to terrify my fellow techies that when confronted with a mis- behaving Winbloze box, my first course of action was boot into DOS, fire up edlin, and hack with the .ini files :-) - I usually knew what the problem was straigt away, and couple fix/remove the offending config line in seconds. I hate M$ for many, many reasons. However my dislike first turned to hatred with the removal of edlin from Windows. If you want a quick laugh, and know a little *nix, try this page: http://www.very.net/~nikolai/penix/ Jon -- Ying-tong-yiddle-I-po! _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Anarchy [Anarchy@agentsofchaos.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 11:18 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 > Okay. > I'd like to get a team of our nitpicky rules-heads, flavor geeks, etc. To > start a little in-house project. > Anyone want to start a Private Yahoo Club for this? Or should I do it? > Anyone wanna donate non-yahoo web-hosting? > > Here's the plan; (as I see it. you may see more. Please add) > > Re-worked San Rules > Re-worked combat rules > SKILL REVISIONS/DESCRIPTIONS If you want the skills (the DG versions), I have a copy of them on my site - http://www.agentsofchaos.org/DGSkills.doc for Word format and http://www.agentsofchaos.org/DGSkills.rtf for RTF format. Scott _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 6:35 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Newage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aardvark of Fnords" > /me puts on his pointy hat, picks up wand, and opens his (very battered) > copy of Starhawk "The Spiral Dance": [snip quote] > Take Starhawk with a Dead Sea's amount of salt. She's a bit too new-age > and far too fluffy for me, but the above has both good ideas on culture, > and some nice feeders for CoC/DG concepts. I know. It's a shame that Newage is so often squishy-soft, because they write about shit that would give HPL the feys and vapors. Secret history, reptiles among us, galactic empires, alien DNA in ours, things waiting for us on the Moon and Mars, the solar system being arranged like a living room suite, secret masters, transcendance and so on. It's like a secular humanist Lovecraft universe, if that isn't a contradiction. Naturally, I treat it all as disinformation for gaming and fictional purposes. It's all true to some degree or another, and badly presented from and for the lunatic fringe to get it all dismissed by "rational" minds. David Icke anyone? Those reptilian tales in particular. Has anyone else noticed that the reptoids are coming on stronger than ever before in UFO writings? Reptilian Greys are a new wrinkle. It's like reptiles have become the core of a Unified Weird Theory. Very gratifying for your humble narrator, as I caught the wave when it was just a swell. When the fringe consensus finds that the reptoids *are* the Illuminati we'll have come full circle. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 5:47 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The Future of Delta Green I was cleaning my mailbox and found this not very fresh thread that I wanted to join on one subject. Gil Trevizo wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > So, what more does Delta Green need? > > A Players Handbook with a bunch of tradecraft would be sweet, but it's > hardly necessary. The Cult of Transcendence book would also be sweet, but > the DGverse has existed fine without knowing the details of CoT and none of > the avenues of exploration in the DGverse seem to lead toward CoT. Another > Mythos threat would be nice to play with, but it's not a missing component > of what is Delta Green. I agree, but lately I realized that I miss the (promised in the main book) Cult of Transcendence material much. Why? I have one issue with the DG - it is a wonderful set of amazing RPG ideas, but the setting is US-centric. I'm not against US, but I don't like to place my campaigns there. I've never been in US, and my view on the country is very eclectic, some of it coming from the popculture (the movies and books), some of it coming from first-hand statements (my father been there on a stipend back in the 70s), and some (and the part I like most) from 'public unconsciousness' - the slips of information that come here, come in factual books (been rereading "Cuckoo's Egg" lately) etc. But, even armed with this all info I can't answer a single simple question: "what it is like to be an American in his home country". If I'd run a scenario in US, we would be roleplaying Americans, like we do roleplay Elves, or halflings in Warhammer FRP. But I prefer to place my campaigns in places well known to me an to my players, so we can concentrate on the plot and athmosphere, and not on thinking 'what would John Wayne do'. And I still want it to be DG. I try to address the issue in DIASPORA, in GLASS DOOR, but all in all it is stretching of the setting. But the Cult of Transcendence isn't described as much US-centric. Its headquarters are a stone throw from here, in Stockholm. They will definitely be active across the EurAsia. The DG and PISCES will be fighting them, the PCs would have the chance to meet (and fight or join) either side. It would be more natural to employ Cult of Transcedence instead of imagining a Majestic operation here (as in GLASS DOOR). I already toyed with the idea of Esoteric Order of Dagon-like sect (dangerous sects are a hot topic here) masking as New Age and trying to gain some foothold here in Poland, and used it in a campaign. But I likely would replace my few ad-hoc ideas with a well researched CoT source. I don't have the grim and twisted imagination of DG Partnership. Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 9:52 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 Write it, I'll covert it to PDF and make it available for download at UncleBear.com -berin ******** Conspiracy and Modern Horror Resources http://unclebear.com/deltagreen Delta Green: De Profundis http://deltaprofundis.blogspot.com --- "ReflectingSkin" wrote: >Okay. >I'd like to get a team of our nitpicky rules-heads, flavor geeks, etc. To >start a little in-house project. >Anyone want to start a Private Yahoo Club for this? Or should I do it? >Anyone wanna donate non-yahoo web-hosting? > >Here's the plan; (as I see it. you may see more. Please add) > >Re-worked San Rules >Re-worked combat rules >SKILL REVISIONS/DESCRIPTIONS > >Anything else? > >-ReSkin > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Anarchy [Anarchy@agentsofchaos.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 10:03 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Hacking for Case Officers > On Mon, Dec 24, 2001 at 11:52:36AM -0500, Rayburn, Russell E. wrote: > > I did try using 'cracker' a few years ago... most people thought I was > > insulting people from the southeastern united states. > > Help out a poor old limey, and explain how/why "cracker" would insult > somebody from the SE USA? Offensive. 1.. Used as a disparaging term for a poor white person of the rural, especially southeast United States. 2.. Used as a disparaging term for a white person. Hehehe... The term "cracker" here in America, especially in the south, is a derogatory term for a white person, particularly one that fits the stereotype of being a "hick" or a "redneck", i.e. southern drawl in their voice, walking around barefoot, chewing on a straw, farming, etc.. If you've heard of "nigger", then "cracker" would be the opposite, i.e. the version of it for white people. Scott _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of balance@tubas.net Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:21 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 11:00 PM, The Man in Black wrote: > > This skill IS an Internet-equivalent of the Library Use skill. Stat and > Skill proliferation is a bad thing, so why replace an existing skill? > Just say that if you have Computer Use 15%-25% or more then you get an > additional Library Use roll to represent the Search engine findings, > which ought to take anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours. By the > way, Library Use should really be renamed "Research" in the next edition > of CoC. My copy of the Keeper's Companion actually suggests treating Library Use as Library use/Internet for modern campaigns.. The logic appears to be that any modern day researcher would have some internet search skills. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:56 AM To: DG List Subject: [DG] Blackhawk Down This is a good reference for the 1993 mission into Mogadishu: http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/sitemap.asp It may be useful scenario or character background, and contains enough detail about organisation and techniques to be quite helpful to anyone that needs to stage a similar event in game. Cheers, -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au Better living through reckless experimentation. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 12:07 PM To: fictionmags@yahoogroups.com; deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Re: Remember the Afghans? http://e-sheep.com/spiders/ Hit me hard. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:55 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] The UnOfficial CoC Now Re-Write and Rules Addendum Beta .1 ReflectingSkin wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Okay. > I'd like to get a team of our nitpicky rules-heads, flavor geeks, etc. To > start a little in-house project. > Anyone want to start a Private Yahoo Club for this? Or should I do it? > Anyone wanna donate non-yahoo web-hosting? here it is: https://imbryk.esensja.pl/mailman/listinfo/dg-rules all you need (subscription, unsubscription, etc is there) Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Yossi Gurvitz [ygurvitz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:33 AM To: The Lizard King Subject: Re: [DG] Newage TLK> Those reptilian tales in particular. Has anyone else noticed that the TLK> reptoids are coming on stronger than ever before in UFO writings? I don't know about stories about reptiles being modern. They seem much more ancient to me. Delphi was sacred to Apollo - but before he came there, it was a snake temple, and he slew the snake. The Israelites were being attacked by snakes in the desert; Moses creates a Bronze Serpent, which has the power to heal. Much later, when Jehovite priests begin the purification process known as Judaism, King Hezekiah destroyed it (2 Kings 18:4, "He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan." - "Nehushtan" means "made of Bronze" or "Brazen" in Hebrew - YG). Saint Patrick expels the snakes from Ireland. Before that, the land just won't become Christian. Dragons are basically large snakes. In the New Testament, they represent the Devil. I won't even bother mentioning the Paradise story. Serpents, everywhere, as enemies of civilization. And almost always related to women - and to the disempowerment (is that a word?) of women. Apollo's cult destroyed a women's cult - but left the Pythia behind; and soon after Hezekiah, the worship of the Queen of Heaven was forbidden in Jerusalem (not always a popular move - Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. Jeremiah 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.") Hmm. Yours, Yossi _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Marshall Gatten [marshall@thegattens.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:52 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) I've been amazingly busy of late. So busy, in fact, that I've completely lost track of X-Files - a sin never to be forgiven, I know. But last night I managed to catch an episode and it was so DG-like that at the first commericial I ran and got a pen and pad of paper for note taking. The episode was "Via Negativa". Within the next two weeks I'll be starting a new DG campaign with completely fresh meat - these guys have never played DG at all. And I'm also certain that they missed last night's X-Files, so I think I'm going to use it as their starting adventure. If you didn't see Via Negativa, then this will make little sense to you. But if you did happen to catch it last night, I'd love any additional ideas you could throw my way. First off, I'll be replacing the Lone Gunmen with a Phenomen-X reporter who has come snooping around asking questions and providing some vague leads. This guy is going to draw an incorrect connection between this cult trying to open their third eye and the Army of the Third Eye. Following this lead will be the reddest herring of all time, but will eventually introduce the characters to PICSES, et al. Of course, they'll be so off-track that the Tippet issue will be long-over by the time they realize they've gone astray. The tree whose bark distillation assists in opening the via negativa to it's user will not be African - it will be Asian. The drug dealer will have gotten it for Tippet from an Asian contact that he has in a Chicago gang. Following this lead will introduce the characters to the Tcho-Tcho. Most everything else I'm thinking of keeping the same as in the X-Files episode, except for the ending of the dream with the agent waking up just before killing himself. Any thoughts from those of you who saw the show and have further ideas? Thanks, Marshall From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 1:56 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: knowledge, skills (was: RE: [DG] Internet stuff) Both Davide and Alex make good points. There could be another factor as well, although I'm not sure if it would be a skill, or a combination of INT/EDU... With both handguns and computers (two of my favorite things!) I've seen people who, without training but a background in the field, 'figure out' what to do when faced with something new... they seem to just monkey with it until it does what they want. (Done that myself, from time to time). There are limitations... such as users familiar with windoze using the mac gui, yet unable to deal with a mac OSX command prompt, or a friend figuring out the strange button on the side of my beretta tomcat was the magazine release, but unsure how to disassemble it for cleaning. Damn, but I miss the jack-of-all-trades skill from traveller... *grin* -----Original Message----- From: Janusz A. Urbanowicz [mailto:alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Internet stuff Davide Mana wrote/napisał[a]/schrieb: > I just point out the fact that the comparison with Literacy works, as long > as you allow for different languages. > > Am I stating the obvious? > Yes, I'm stating the obvious. It is the same with almost any subject covered by CoC skill system. I'd say the same thing for Handgun. Personally I'm quite familiar with Walther Olympia, and little less with Makarov, but for using more exotic guns I would have to bring my little pocket Jane's hand weapons guide (sorry, don't have the original title handy) where it is decribed how to lock, unlock and unload almost all guns produced by humans. And then the same for Physics. And so on and so on. So, there is no direct projection that such and such value of a skill is equivalent to any distinct range of knowledge on the skill. Personally I take the statistical approach. The skill is less the chance of doing something right. It is more a chance of knowing how to do something (at least the skills in the Thought group. Alex _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 2:08 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) At 09:52 AM 12/31/2001 -0800, Marshall Gatten wrote: >Any thoughts from those of you who saw the show and have further ideas? I didn't see the episode except for glancing at one part (the Lone Gunman speech on third eye imagery to Doggett) that almost overcame my complete and utter disgust at what The X-Files has become... almost. But just from what you're describing, I'd have one bit of advice - be careful how much of the DG Mythos you give out to the PC's at the beginning of your campaign. In mine, which started a few months ago, I gave out clues leading to the Karotechia, Tong Shugoran, MJ-12, Stephen Alzis and the Fate, the Order of the Sword of Saint Jerome, Natalia Chermeninko (from the Skoptsi chapter), the Hounds of Tindalos, and Y'golonac. And since I ran Puppet Shows and Shadow Plays as the introductory scenario, they're still interested in finding out what the Traveller is. It's all way too much to tie up in a few sessions, and now I'm just trying to end the Tong Shugoran chapter of this campaign as soon as possible. I've found it's important that the PC's don't get fed clues about an aspect of the DG Mythos and then spend months waiting to figure out what it's all about. While DG works best as an ongoing campaign, each session needs to have some sense of closure, and ending with a gunfight only works so many times before it gets stale. The PC's need to learn *something* - that's what puts the fun in investigation. It's good to leave a few hanging threads that the PC's can follow when they finish with the main baddie, but you just want to be careful that you don't split their attention into too many different directions that will exhaust their interest. JMHO, Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/