From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 2:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: knowledge, skills (was: RE: [DG] Internet stuff) At 02:55 PM 12/31/2001 -0500, Rayburn, Russell E. wrote: >Damn, but I miss the jack-of-all-trades skill from traveller... *grin* Wouldn't the Know score cover this? That's how I use it, and I tend to use it a lot in my game. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Rayburn, Russell E. [RERayburn@cmhmetro.net] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 2:25 PM To: 'deltagreen@revolutionsf.com' Subject: RE: knowledge, skills (was: RE: [DG] Internet stuff) I tend to use Know more within the framework of the skills a character has... JOAT was fun because it let you do almost anything, but nothing well. Then again, it's been a while since I was in a game, let alone ran one.. demands of work, significant others, and all that... *sob*. -----Original Message----- From: Gil Trevizo [mailto:furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: knowledge, skills (was: RE: [DG] Internet stuff) At 02:55 PM 12/31/2001 -0500, Rayburn, Russell E. wrote: >Damn, but I miss the jack-of-all-trades skill from traveller... *grin* Wouldn't the Know score cover this? That's how I use it, and I tend to use it a lot in my game. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew Gable [empirion33@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:42 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) I once liberally ripped off an X-Files plot for a DG scenario, with some minor changes. The episode was an older one, the one in which Mulder & Scully were investigating a Russian serial killer who apparently kept killing after his incarceration... after some allusions to a supernatural explanation (he claimed he was in contact with some demon, and constantly sculpted gargoyles), it was revealed that the killer was actually an FBI profiler who was doing copycat killings. ===== Soraidh, Andrew D. Gable empirion33@hotmail.com, empirion33@yahoo.com THE CRYPTOWEB v3.0: http://come.to/the_cryptoweb/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Russell [c-jeffru@amazon.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 4:26 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? Overall my players and I have no problems with the Coc rule system, the exception being the automatic weapons rule. When running a 20's campaign this was relatively easy to work around by simply placing heavy limits on any access to the few automatic weapons of the era. Now that we're playing DG though, the players have automatic weapons available pretty much whenever we need them. Our feeling is that the rules as presented in the rulebook make the weapons far too powerful; particularly after an agent single handedly dropped a Dark Young by emptying a clip at it. Has anyone experimented at all with alternate rules for these weapons? Anyone know of somewhere where alternate rules might be available? Alonmg the same lines, we're keeping an eye out for good hit location rules. I seem to remember Unspeakable Oath doing something along these lines at one point but I can't seem to find it in my back issues. My apologies if this has been discussed recently-I'm new to this list. Didn't see it covered in the Ice Cave archive though. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Gil Trevizo [furrylogic@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 4:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? At 02:25 PM 12/31/2001 -0800, Jeff Russell wrote: >Our feeling is that the rules as presented in the rulebook make the weapons >far too powerful; particularly after an agent single handedly dropped a Dark >Young by emptying a clip at it. Has anyone experimented at all with >alternate rules for these weapons? Anyone know of somewhere where alternate >rules might be available? There is a rather complicated set of auto-fire rules, and hit location rules, at Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall/cthulhu.htm If you want the official hit location rules, try to find a copy of the out-of-print 1990's Handbook. To be honest though, I tried to integrate them in my game and found that they just made combat more slow and less exciting. As for auto-fire, what I did with my group was to get rid of the whole +5% per bullet fired in a burst rule, which is the really obscene part. It is limited in part by not allowing the SMG or MG skill to be upped more than double (so no matter how many bullets fired, a skill of 20% can only be upped to 40%), but that means that someone with a 50% skill has about a 99% chance to hit - that's ridiculous. Instead, all burst fire is done with the Machine Gun skill, regardless of it's on a bipod/tripod or not. This means if you want that 99% chance to hit, you have to pay the skill points and roll the skill learning to get it. Sure, it might be easier to hit with 20 rounds fired than just 3, but even that's debatable. The more rounds you fire, the harder it is to control a weapon. Hell, even just firing a 7.62mm NATO semiauto rifle quickly can be a bitch to control. If you do this, auto fire is still very deadly but not the instant death ray the regular CoC rules make it out to be. But what can really tame auto-weapons fire, both in gaming and in real-life, is cover and suppressive fire. Those two techniques are what allow someone to outflank an automatic weapon and take it out, and those two techniques are completely absent in the CoC rules. I have plans to work something up for them with the DG WWII project, but that's still on the to-do list. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Jeff Russell [c-jeffru@amazon.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 5:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? Good suggestions and I like that site. Will definitely give me a basis to work with. -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Gil Trevizo Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 2:42 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? At 02:25 PM 12/31/2001 -0800, Jeff Russell wrote: >Our feeling is that the rules as presented in the rulebook make the weapons >far too powerful; particularly after an agent single handedly dropped a Dark >Young by emptying a clip at it. Has anyone experimented at all with >alternate rules for these weapons? Anyone know of somewhere where alternate >rules might be available? There is a rather complicated set of auto-fire rules, and hit location rules, at Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall/cthulhu.htm If you want the official hit location rules, try to find a copy of the out-of-print 1990's Handbook. To be honest though, I tried to integrate them in my game and found that they just made combat more slow and less exciting. As for auto-fire, what I did with my group was to get rid of the whole +5% per bullet fired in a burst rule, which is the really obscene part. It is limited in part by not allowing the SMG or MG skill to be upped more than double (so no matter how many bullets fired, a skill of 20% can only be upped to 40%), but that means that someone with a 50% skill has about a 99% chance to hit - that's ridiculous. Instead, all burst fire is done with the Machine Gun skill, regardless of it's on a bipod/tripod or not. This means if you want that 99% chance to hit, you have to pay the skill points and roll the skill learning to get it. Sure, it might be easier to hit with 20 rounds fired than just 3, but even that's debatable. The more rounds you fire, the harder it is to control a weapon. Hell, even just firing a 7.62mm NATO semiauto rifle quickly can be a bitch to control. If you do this, auto fire is still very deadly but not the instant death ray the regular CoC rules make it out to be. But what can really tame auto-weapons fire, both in gaming and in real-life, is cover and suppressive fire. Those two techniques are what allow someone to outflank an automatic weapon and take it out, and those two techniques are completely absent in the CoC rules. I have plans to work something up for them with the DG WWII project, but that's still on the to-do list. Gil _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Marcy [sarnath7@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 10:15 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? Another idea I found was using the automatic fire rules from Top Secret and Top Secret:SI by TSR. The games were mostly crap, but had an interesting combat idea. For each bullet fired beyond the first, a 10% penalty is applied to each subsequent shot. For each round of un-interrupted full automatic fire, more penalties apply. With a little tweaking, it works well in CoC/DG and doesn't slow down combat too much. I especially like the -10 for submachineguns. A short-barreled full auto 9mm is very hard to control. I haven't had the opportunity to fire a full auto 7.62 Nato, but imagine it would be just as difficult. ACM If anyone would be willing to part with their copy of Project Rainbow, or know anyone who would, let me know off-list. I would be willing to buy it, pending condition. I don't really want to buy the new compilation of several books coming out, but would rather have just Rainbow. >From: "Jeff Russell" >Reply-To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com >To: >Subject: RE: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? >Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:02:09 -0800 > >Good suggestions and I like that site. Will definitely give me a basis to >work with. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com >[mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of Gil Trevizo >Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 2:42 AM >To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com >Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? > > >At 02:25 PM 12/31/2001 -0800, Jeff Russell wrote: > >Our feeling is that the rules as presented in the rulebook make the >weapons > >far too powerful; particularly after an agent single handedly dropped a >Dark > >Young by emptying a clip at it. Has anyone experimented at all with > >alternate rules for these weapons? Anyone know of somewhere where >alternate > >rules might be available? > >There is a rather complicated set of auto-fire rules, and hit location >rules, at Goodall's Grotto: > >http://www.vex.net/~agoodall/cthulhu.htm > >If you want the official hit location rules, try to find a copy of the >out-of-print 1990's Handbook. To be honest though, I tried to integrate >them in my game and found that they just made combat more slow and less >exciting. > >As for auto-fire, what I did with my group was to get rid of the whole +5% >per bullet fired in a burst rule, which is the really obscene part. It is >limited in part by not allowing the SMG or MG skill to be upped more than >double (so no matter how many bullets fired, a skill of 20% can only be >upped to 40%), but that means that someone with a 50% skill has about a 99% >chance to hit - that's ridiculous. > >Instead, all burst fire is done with the Machine Gun skill, regardless of >it's on a bipod/tripod or not. This means if you want that 99% chance to >hit, you have to pay the skill points and roll the skill learning to get >it. Sure, it might be easier to hit with 20 rounds fired than just 3, but >even that's debatable. The more rounds you fire, the harder it is to >control a weapon. Hell, even just firing a 7.62mm NATO semiauto rifle >quickly can be a bitch to control. > >If you do this, auto fire is still very deadly but not the instant death >ray the regular CoC rules make it out to be. But what can really tame >auto-weapons fire, both in gaming and in real-life, is cover and >suppressive fire. Those two techniques are what allow someone to outflank >an automatic weapon and take it out, and those two techniques are >completely absent in the CoC rules. > >I have plans to work something up for them with the DG WWII project, but >that's still on the to-do list. > >Gil > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 12:10 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) I really liked the 'gargoyle' episode. That was one of those cases where an X-files episode came out in Scully's favor rather than Mulder's (as in, the "normal" explanation won out over the "weird" one) But hey - let's put this on the table, here. There was a time when the X-files was one of the best, most engaging shows on TV. Now, from everything I'm hearing (I've not seen an episode in ages, so I'm bearing on others' opinions, here) it's going downhill badly. Why? Is this a case of "nothing gold can stay," or has Carter just run out of ideas, or... what? I ask this here because I think it's good for those involved in constant creative endeavors (like running a game every week) to see where other folks are doing good, doing okay or doing badly, and then learn from their mistakes or triumphs. I mean, who HASN'T had a game that started out pretty well, and then started to meander, and eventually got to the point where only the die-hards would show up, or else people just came to see where it was going to end but could have really cared less by that point? Something to consider, anyway! How do you keep your game from going stale? J. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 12:29 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) I really liked the 'gargoyle' episode. That was one of those cases where an X-files episode came out in Scully's favor rather than Mulder's (as in, the "normal" explanation won out over the "weird" one) But hey - let's put this on the table, here. There was a time when the X-files was one of the best, most engaging shows on TV. Now, from everything I'm hearing (I've not seen an episode in ages, so I'm bearing on others' opinions, here) it's going downhill badly. Why? Is this a case of "nothing gold can stay," or has Carter just run out of ideas, or... what? I ask this here because I think it's good for those involved in constant creative endeavors (like running a game every week) to see where other folks are doing good, doing okay or doing badly, and then learn from their mistakes or triumphs. I mean, who HASN'T had a game that started out pretty well, and then started to meander, and eventually got to the point where only the die-hards would show up, or else people just came to see where it was going to end but could have really cared less by that point? Something to consider, anyway! How do you keep your game from going stale? J. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* [ialdaloboth@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 12:37 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? Heh. I happen to remember a time when a certain fellow player dropped a shoggoth using a railgun. After that, the Keeper realized he'd given that fellow a bit too much leeway, and gave him some nasty derangements that dealt with his inventions, and his need to be surrounded by them. IIRC, when we pried him out of the body armor, said character was a wasted, grimy yellow thing who was skinny as a rail, allergic to sunlight and went fetal on contact with air. I think he spent the rest of the campaign huddling under a wide-brimmed hat and mewling... If guns get to be a problem, give your investigators problems with guns! : )_ moo hoo ha ha J. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:33 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Twilight Zone One of the new traditions that I appreciate is the TV show marathons some channels have on holidays. New Year's Eve and Day on the Sci Fi Channel is a non-stop Twilight Zone marathon. It's odd watching shows you think you know by heart after seeing reruns ever since grade school. It's easy to dismiss them when you know all the "surprise" endings, and Sturgeon's Law applies of course. The majority were not all that great, but some had a power that made them cultural icons. It wasn't the repetition that made them part of the mass culture, it was the strength of those few that got all of them repeated again and again and again. Case in point: the one that is on as I'm typing this. "Third From the Sun." Everyone knows the ending; its become a part of the mass culture like Grimm fairy tales. You don't even remember when you first saw it, its like you've always already seen it. Like nursery rhymes and fairy tales, you can't remember when you first heard them or even if you really did, you just pick them up through osmosis. "Time enough at last." Oh yeah -- Burgess Meredith, nuclear war, broken glasses. Bummer. Third from the Sun. Duh. Imagine a time when that title didn't give the ending away, when most people didn't incorporate the Solar system in their world view. Watching it today is an education in film making. The lighting is moody, utilizing faces lit from underneath and the deep shadows you only get from B&W. If you look carefully you will notice that every frame is skewed, the camera is never level or aligned normally. Wide shots are often from floor level, ceilings appear lower than normal. Even in close-ups you can see the background is tilted. Sometimes the effect is enhanced by the camera being aligned with the actor with the background tilted. Right now the episode on is "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street." Another well-crafted piece. Think of it as an OUTLOOK cascade experiment with mass hysteria. You have to do some mental time travelling to appreciate Zones properly. Try to imagine a time when no one ever saw that story before. A time before Shatner was Shatner. I can vividly remember the night "Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" was first on. Living in San Diego. Uncle Bill was babysitting. Had Cornish pasties for dinner in front of the TV. Sure, the monster was a lame albino gorilla suit, but the atmosphere was electric. Pure magic. The Peanut Gallery will be quick to point out that most of the best Zones were classic sci fi and fantasy stories in their first incarnation. Well, duh. Check the credits sometime. Very often the original story was adapted for TV by the original writer. I credit The Twilight Zone for lowering the barricades at the sci fi ghetto. It mainstreamed themes and conventions that were segregated in the magazines in those dark days before a sci fi section at the chain bookstore. The circle of writers that made some of the best Zones called themselves the Green Hand, and were later dubbed the California Sorcerors. Richard Matheson, George Clayton Johnson, Ray Bradbury (in the avuncular role), Earl Hamner Jr. and always always the brilliant, doomed Charles Beaumont farming out ideas to younger writers as his faculties closed down on him. Others in the circle include Robert Bloch and Harlan Ellison. And of course, Rod Serling churning out an avalanche of stories with the occasional gold in the dross. Lessee, which Zone taglines need no expansion? Which have become part of mass culture? "Time enough at last." "There's a man on the wing!" "It's *good* that you did that Anthony." "It's a cook book!" "That one. The third planet from the sun." "Room for one more, honey." "People are alike all over." "Next stop, Willoughby." "Kick the can." "He came in, fell asleep on the couch, then jumped through the window." "Fr-ank-lin (chi-ching)!" And let's not forget the glove cleaner that's also a love potion antidote. Or the visual kickers: The bandages are removed and it's everyone else that is hideous. The caricature face of Cliff Robertson as a ventriloquist dummy. The hitch-hiker. The mad look on the face of the double at the bus depot. A normal day at the office interrupted by a director calling "Cut!" and the set opening up. The physicist-next-door outlining the opening into the fourth dimension on the bedroom wall in chalk. Lights coming on and engines starting on Maple Street. It's hard to imagine what a shock The Twilight Zone was when it first appeared. Rod Serling was at the height of his career, a TV writer that was getting his award-winning teleplays adapted into films. Known for tackling big subjects and challenging the status quo, and apparently abandoning it all for a half-hour weirdo show. Serling stated that part of the inspiration for "abandoning" "serious" work was the effort it took to get anything controversial on TV against the pressure of censors, standards and sponsors. He had an epiphany during a story conference for a story about racial tension in America, when it occurred to him that if he changed the setting to the future and the tension between different species he could say what he wanted to say and pass under the sponsor's radar. It was "just" science fiction, nothing to worry about or keep a close eye on. The hip would get it and everyone else would only see the surface they expected. ObDG? Well, although it was by no means the first, it was undeniably the most popular presentation (at the time) of some of the mind-bending tricks that science fiction and fantasy and horror and the other ghettoized (at the time) genres deal in. It introduced surreal themes to water cooler conversation at the office. Was it the first signs of Carcosan thinking invading TV Land? Was it all part of an MK-ULTRA project? Since I like most of the players, I opt for it being part of the Resistance. Inoculating minds with tolerable levels of weirdness, like cowpox to build up resistance to smallpox. If Carcosa wants to encroach on the late 20th Century it's going to have to work at it. Yeah yeah, skewed perspective and a breakdown of cause and effect. Been there, done that. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of R W [moonduck@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:59 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) >I mean, who HASN'T had a game that started out pretty well, and then >started >to meander, and eventually got to the point where only the die-hards would >show up, or else people just came to see where it was going to end but >could >have really cared less by that point? > >Something to consider, anyway! How do you keep your game from going stale? Hmmm, good question, and one that I've been worrying about for a bit as well. I've an ongoing battle with one of my players regarding this very topic. My average game length is about 8-10 months per campaign (played once a week). His idea of what it should be is closer to 3-5 years (played as little as once a month). Short campaigns irritate him greatly. I prefer the 8-10 month level simply because it is difficult for it to go stale in that amount of time, yet I can really hammer out a good, intense story. I prefer quality over quantity, whereas he'd rather have quantity. This is a battle I'm having the devil's time fighting. Luckily, being the GM (I won't say Keeper simply because I run all sorts of games), I set the game length, thus I win. But he whines constantly. As far as keeping the game from going stale in some way other than simply limiting the length, I like a sea change. Change virtually anything serious about the game and you will freshen it up. I usually like severe changes in geography, if a game is too staid, simply because it gives me the oppurtunity to land the players in an environment that can be utterly alien without even vaguely resorting to Mythos trickery. I can usually find some off the wall locale and pull off a plausible portrayal of the setting, given some research. Luckily, one of the standard old hat tools in a CoC game is the exotic, beautiful setting hiding misshapen local evil, thus when the locals turn out simply to be wierd in a more mundane sense, it throws the PC's off. Some of the more base tricks I play would be things like screwing with the players heads. If I know things are getting slow, I'll pull out some book that I know they all _hate_ (in my group, that's anything with CoC on it, "Blood Dimmed Tides" for an Albino Fleabag game, or a random Palladium book if I want truly non-sequitor bloody-minded wierdness). The appearance of one of the many Hated Tomes gets the _players_ nervous and thus they pay attention. Another psych trick is props. I know GM's that make up props constantly. Little handouts with background on it, printouts from e-mail the PC's recv'd, fake blueprints, newspapers, etc. I love it as a player, really do, but overuse lessens the impact. When I do a prop, the players take notice, simply because they know that I won't do it unless it is important for some reason or another. Currently, I'm running a momentously odd game wherein the PC's are currently in a very pulp influenced 1913 setting, and thus I make up the various telegrams they get. They love getting em, but agonize over every word, searching for hidden meanings. Basically, anything that shakes up the status quo will help a game keep a game from going stale, but always keep in mind that you can perk the players interest as easily as you can their characters. R Cell -- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 10:38 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Twilight Zone Something else about the "inoculation" theme you are suggesting. Note that all these highly effective "vaccines" were actually presented as Plays. In a restricted environment, with the massive changes in the background only suggested. They are quite different from realistic SFX driven fantasias. They are Plays, perhaps, because that is necessary, for them to bear on the potency of the Play. I can imagine stuff like "Demon with a Glass Hand" innoculating against Carcosa. But by no stretch of the imagination could I conceive of Star Wars doing so. The Glove Cleaner (( This post made me reflect how much some TV SF **benefits** from being treated as a Play. Building on that, there is written SF that benefits from the same sort of thing. My favorite SF writer, Cordwainer Smith, set story after unforgettable story in small, restricted, stage-like environments: in the 20 by 10 by 10 meter cabin of a sailship on a 400-year voyage: in the pinlighting room of a starship, no bigger than a living room. Scenery was deliberately eschewd. Even in the longer and more complex stories he often fell into the play-telling mode, describing how this company of artists presented the martrydom of D'Joan *this* way, another used a robot body, another left the fire empty and untenanted - while at the same time looping back to describe how the grainy original tapes show what acually happened. Partly, it's that the important elements, which are the human emotional currents and the Exception that makes it SF, benefit from being put in a frame.)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Lizard King" > ObDG? Well, although it was by no means the first, it was undeniably the > most popular presentation (at the time) of some of the mind-bending tricks > that science fiction and fantasy and horror and the other ghettoized (at the > time) genres deal in. It introduced surreal themes to water cooler > conversation at the office. _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [shane@revolutionsf.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 12:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Keeping it Fresh HORRIFIC NEW YEAR, everybody! > My average game length is about 8-10 months per campaign > (played once > a week). His idea of what it should be is closer to 3-5 years (played as > little as once a month). Short campaigns irritate him greatly. Interesting - it sounds like you both like campaigns of close to the same length (appx. 30-50 sessions), just played at different frequencies. This has probably been discussed some before and archived in The Ice Cave, maybe even by me for all I know, but I'm too busy to go digging. Please forgive any duplication. My players and I usually have difficult schedules, so that kind of staying power in a single campaign is impossible to sustain. The last time I could do it was the online SANDMAN game, but we didn't complete that and it's still on hiatus (pacing is difficult on that one, too - long-as-hell campaigns don't lend themselves to IRC). Before that it was a short Delta Green campaign, alternated with a 1920s Innsmouth campaign and Amber and GURPS with the same group. That was five or six years ago in a different state. These days my local group manages to hook up about twice a month on average and it's strictly episodic: a D&D3 scenario, a short Star Wars campaign, a Feng Shui scenario, Sengoku, BESM. Once we get over the holidays we'll dive into GODLIKE, and I have another game in development that will need testing, not to mention several DG scenarios that need finishing and testing. That's one way to keep things from getting stale - do the RPG shuffle. But that doesn't help if you're looking to keep a long-term campaign afloat. The longest continuous campaign that I've ever been in was ages ago, a 1920s game that opened with "Terror from the Stars," went completely through "Shadows of Yog Sothoth," and ended cataclysically halfway through "Masks of Nyarlathotep" when most of the characters died and the survivors gave up and ran for it. The number one reason that game stayed fresh so long was that the players loved their characters. With the game's typical mortality rate that's a hard thing to do (Call of Cthulhu is infamous for its gleeful destruction of player characters), and I expect the Keeper allowed a lot of leeway to avoid random deaths and keep the players from getting frustrated and bored. Not many players get their greatest kicks out of spectacular death scenes week in and week out. Having the player characters around for a long while kept the players engaged as the characters got injured, gradually lost their mental footing, and lost social standing for their bizarre activity and secrecy. That campaign also was prop-heavy, and that definitely contributed to the fun. A few of us kept in-character diaries, there were plenty of printed-out clues, and the Keeper even printed Monopoly-style money for each player to keep track of their character's finances, with pictures of Tsatthaghua or Cthulhu or Yog Sothoth in place of the presidents and the Elder Sign in the margins. Goofy but fun. How does that apply for Delta Green? Well, a little differently. The props are pretty easy to handle, especially in a government-oriented game where you can pull out the "TOP SECRET" and "NOFORN" stamps. And it's not hard to grab images off the web to use for illustration. CTHULHU LIVE: DELTA GREEN can help at length with this kind of thing. But making what happens to the characters personal to the players is a little trickier. How many Delta Green games have featured in play the investigators' private lives? An investigator in a day at the office or after hours? A few of mine, but not many. (When I get another long-term DG campaign going sometime I'm going to try that and see how it works out; that will be the game where it will start off as a non-Cthulhu game, using a completely different system and springing the DG conspiracy on them by surprise.) Shaking up the setting and status quo is great advice, and it's applicable to Delta Green. The player characters' situations don't need to be static. Let the umbrella of Delta Green protection and cover-ups fail. Let an investigator get fired or brought up on charges or railroaded into psych review. What will that FBI agent do when he's kicked out of the Bureau and can't get work on a local police force for all the red flags in his background? Bring the consequences home to them. Devote a session to an investigator getting stalked and deciding how to respond to it: do they call for mundane help? Do they call their DG cell? Do they take extreme action? What if it's not a cultist or covert government operative, but a harmless conspiracy theorist from Phenomen-X or SaucerWatch? How does the investigator cope with a real or perceived threat to his or her family that stems from their DG operations? How do the investigator's family and friends respond to his or her deteriorating sanity and increasingly callous disregard for the lives and rights of suspects? So: Shake things up. Use props. Make it personal. What else? - Shane Ivey _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of ElLocoToro@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:32 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [OT] Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (single episode spoilers) In a message dated 1/1/02 1:12:07 AM, ialdaloboth@hotmail.com writes: << But hey - let's put this on the table, here. There was a time when the X-files was one of the best, most engaging shows on TV. Now, from everything I'm hearing (I've not seen an episode in ages, so I'm bearing on others' opinions, here) it's going downhill badly. Why? Is this a case of "nothing gold can stay," or has Carter just run out of ideas, or... what? >> Its not as bad now as it was when David Duchovny got bored and seemed to give up. A couple of years ago, it was like every other week was a gag episode, and the ones in between were just plain dumb. I agree with eckhard (I think it was him) who said that its gotten better after Doggett got into the mix. Its still not as strong as the first three seasons, though. Thank god for DVDs. --Mark _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of R W [moonduck@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:37 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Keeping it Fresh >Interesting - it sounds like you both like campaigns of close to the same >length (appx. 30-50 sessions), just played at different frequencies. This is one of the major reasons why even I admit that our battle is fairly pointless =) *Snip long and solid section of ideas on keeping it fresh* We do the RPG shuffle quite a bit, as well, never running the same thing back to back. In the past 5 years, I've not had more than three months in a row where I was not running something. I am pretty much the main GM for my group, though I consider myself lucky, nonetheless, simply because this means that I've gone no longer than three months without some sort of game (I'm a game-junkie, I admit). I keep some continuity by revisiting old NPC's when I revisit a game system or setting. I refrained from mentioning the RPG shuffle only out of respect for this list being a DG/CoC list =) Another tactic that I forgot to mention was to use and abuse the players for their creativity. Ask your players on an occassional basis for material, ie "Hey, anything you want to see in game?", or "Where would you like to see you character heading?". Another fun tactic, seen in many fantasy novel, is to play Heromaker. In other words, pick an unlikely PC and give them a destiny. See if they rise to the occassion. Depnding on the player, you'll either have a dud that might not hurt the game much, or you'll have a rocket that'll tow the rest of the game screaming in its' wake - ie, good clean fun. The best game I ever ran (an Arcanum game, sort of White Wolf's version of CoC). The big key was my best player deciding that his character had a driving obssession to find the "Seven Seals of Solomon". When I asked him what those were, he said "I dunno. You figure it out" and grinned mischieviously. It was quite exciting for me to have such an oppurtunity, to fill in all the blanks with such an evocative name like that. His character was a raving lunatic by the end of the game, yet incredibly potent, mystically. Another player, who had the obligatory combat machine, had been put through the Heromaker and was the first PC's bodyguard and prison guard. If the first stepped out of line, the second whacked him. Great story. All in all, giving the players input is a great thing, properly handled. I make it a point to ask for "Questions? Comments" after EVERY session, as a result. Sorry about being so long-winded. It's a habit, and made doubly worse because I am work and dead-bored. As always, if you see my go over already covered ground, please forgive me. I've read the archives as much as possible, but am still new to this excellent list. R Cell -- _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 2:47 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] Random Name Generator http://www.kleimo.com/random/name.cfm -berin ******** Conspiracy and Modern Horror Resources http://unclebear.com/deltagreen Delta Green: De Profundis http://deltaprofundis.blogspot.com _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Shane Mclean [Shane.Mclean@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:08 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? > Another idea I found was using the automatic fire rules from Top Secret and > Top Secret:SI by TSR. The games were mostly crap, but had an interesting > combat idea. For each bullet fired beyond the first, a 10% penalty is > applied to each subsequent shot. For each round of un-interrupted full > automatic fire, more penalties apply. With a little tweaking, it works well > in CoC/DG and doesn't slow down combat too much. I especially like the -10 > for submachineguns. A short-barreled full auto 9mm is very hard to control. > I haven't had the opportunity to fire a full auto 7.62 Nato, but imagine > it would be just as difficult. The thing is, you have to look at the fact there are really two types of auto fire - autofire for accuracy (hose to hit) and autofire for effect (put 'em all on target). We really need a/f rules that allow either choice. I know Cyberpunk has rules about them, but can't remember off the top of my head how they work. It's something like autofire for accuracy boosts your chance of getting one or two rounds on target, and autofire for effect gives you a really low chance of getting a lot on target. For DG/CoC it could work something like this: (roll for the rounds as a group, or in groups of five with penalties/bonuses accumulating - the latter my prefered) Accuracy: +5% per round fired (max +25% or so), roll 1d3 to determine rounds on target (irrespective of number fired - that only adds to hit chance). Effect: -5% per round fired (-50% tops - I impose a penalty limit as you aren't going to just let the weapon jump about, you are going to try and control it), roll % dice for the number hit as a % of the number fired - keep it to groups of 5 for ease of math). Take care, Shane _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Berin Kinsman [deltagreen@unclebear.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:05 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Twilight Zone ABC Family, formerly FOX Family, formerly the Family Channel, formerly the religious right channel run by the 700 Club, is running an Alias marathon Jan 1, all 10 episodes to date. Very Delta Green. -berin ******** Conspiracy and Modern Horror Resources http://unclebear.com/deltagreen Delta Green: De Profundis http://deltaprofundis.blogspot.com --- "The Lizard King" wrote: > One of the new traditions that I appreciate is the TV show marathons some >channels have on holidays. New Year's Eve and Day on the Sci Fi Channel is a >non-stop Twilight Zone marathon. > > It's odd watching shows you think you know by heart after seeing reruns >ever since grade school. It's easy to dismiss them when you know all the >"surprise" endings, and Sturgeon's Law applies of course. The majority were >not all that great, but some had a power that made them cultural icons. It >wasn't the repetition that made them part of the mass culture, it was the >strength of those few that got all of them repeated again and again and >again. > > Case in point: the one that is on as I'm typing this. "Third From the Sun." >Everyone knows the ending; its become a part of the mass culture like Grimm >fairy tales. You don't even remember when you first saw it, its like you've >always already seen it. Like nursery rhymes and fairy tales, you can't >remember when you first heard them or even if you really did, you just pick >them up through osmosis. "Time enough at last." Oh yeah -- Burgess Meredith, >nuclear war, broken glasses. Bummer. > Third from the Sun. Duh. Imagine a time when that title didn't give the >ending away, when most people didn't incorporate the Solar system in their >world view. > > Watching it today is an education in film making. The lighting is moody, >utilizing faces lit from underneath and the deep shadows you only get from >B&W. If you look carefully you will notice that every frame is skewed, the >camera is never level or aligned normally. Wide shots are often from floor >level, ceilings appear lower than normal. Even in close-ups you can see the >background is tilted. Sometimes the effect is enhanced by the camera being >aligned with the actor with the background tilted. > > Right now the episode on is "The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street." Another >well-crafted piece. Think of it as an OUTLOOK cascade experiment with mass >hysteria. > > You have to do some mental time travelling to appreciate Zones properly. >Try to imagine a time when no one ever saw that story before. A time before >Shatner was Shatner. I can vividly remember the night "Nightmare at 20,000 >Feet" was first on. Living in San Diego. Uncle Bill was babysitting. Had >Cornish pasties for dinner in front of the TV. Sure, the monster was a lame >albino gorilla suit, but the atmosphere was electric. Pure magic. > > The Peanut Gallery will be quick to point out that most of the best Zones >were classic sci fi and fantasy stories in their first incarnation. Well, >duh. Check the credits sometime. Very often the original story was adapted >for TV by the original writer. I credit The Twilight Zone for lowering the >barricades at the sci fi ghetto. It mainstreamed themes and conventions that >were segregated in the magazines in those dark days before a sci fi section >at the chain bookstore. > > The circle of writers that made some of the best Zones called themselves >the Green Hand, and were later dubbed the California Sorcerors. Richard >Matheson, George Clayton Johnson, Ray Bradbury (in the avuncular role), Earl >Hamner Jr. and always always the brilliant, doomed Charles Beaumont farming >out ideas to younger writers as his faculties closed down on him. Others in >the circle include Robert Bloch and Harlan Ellison. And of course, Rod >Serling churning out an avalanche of stories with the occasional gold in the >dross. > > Lessee, which Zone taglines need no expansion? Which have become part of >mass culture? > > "Time enough at last." > "There's a man on the wing!" > "It's *good* that you did that Anthony." > "It's a cook book!" > "That one. The third planet from the sun." > "Room for one more, honey." > "People are alike all over." > "Next stop, Willoughby." > "Kick the can." > "He came in, fell asleep on the couch, then jumped through the window." > "Fr-ank-lin (chi-ching)!" > > And let's not forget the glove cleaner that's also a love potion antidote. > > Or the visual kickers: > The bandages are removed and it's everyone else that is hideous. > The caricature face of Cliff Robertson as a ventriloquist dummy. > The hitch-hiker. > The mad look on the face of the double at the bus depot. > A normal day at the office interrupted by a director calling "Cut!" and the >set opening up. > The physicist-next-door outlining the opening into the fourth dimension on >the bedroom wall in chalk. > Lights coming on and engines starting on Maple Street. > > It's hard to imagine what a shock The Twilight Zone was when it first >appeared. Rod Serling was at the height of his career, a TV writer that was >getting his award-winning teleplays adapted into films. Known for tackling >big subjects and challenging the status quo, and apparently abandoning it >all for a half-hour weirdo show. > Serling stated that part of the inspiration for "abandoning" "serious" work >was the effort it took to get anything controversial on TV against the >pressure of censors, standards and sponsors. He had an epiphany during a >story conference for a story about racial tension in America, when it >occurred to him that if he changed the setting to the future and the tension >between different species he could say what he wanted to say and pass under >the sponsor's radar. It was "just" science fiction, nothing to worry about >or keep a close eye on. The hip would get it and everyone else would only >see the surface they expected. > > ObDG? Well, although it was by no means the first, it was undeniably the >most popular presentation (at the time) of some of the mind-bending tricks >that science fiction and fantasy and horror and the other ghettoized (at the >time) genres deal in. It introduced surreal themes to water cooler >conversation at the office. > Was it the first signs of Carcosan thinking invading TV Land? Was it all >part of an MK-ULTRA project? > Since I like most of the players, I opt for it being part of the >Resistance. Inoculating minds with tolerable levels of weirdness, like >cowpox to build up resistance to smallpox. If Carcosa wants to encroach on >the late 20th Century it's going to have to work at it. Yeah yeah, skewed >perspective and a breakdown of cause and effect. Been there, done that. > >Mark McFadden > >_______________________________________ >The Delta Green Mailing List >http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ _____________________________________________________________ UNCLE BEAR: news, commentary and community for the escapist mind http://unclebear.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:25 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? From: Shane Mclean >The thing is, you have to look at the fact there are really two types of >auto fire - autofire for accuracy (hose to hit) and autofire for effect (put >'em all on target). We really need a/f rules that allow either choice. I >know Cyberpunk has rules about them, but can't remember off the top of my >head how they work. It's something like autofire for accuracy boosts your >chance of getting one or two rounds on target, and autofire for effect gives >you a really low chance of getting a lot on target. GURPS covers this adequately. There is a recoil penalty applied to consecutive groups of 4 bullets, or groups of 20 for weapons with very high rates of fire. The recoil penalties are doubled if you're too scrawy and weak to match the weapons minimum ST, and there is a bonus to aiming for successive groups (the garden hose effect), and there are rules for suppressive fire in an area of effect. In actual play, I rarely use all the Advanced Combat rules, just tell em to make a Guns roll and then the monster eats em. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew Gable [empirion33@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:51 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Ripping a scenario from X-Files (minor spoilers for current season) --- ialdaloboth *genzundheit!* wrote: > Why? Is this a case of "nothing gold can stay," or > has Carter just run out > of ideas, or... what? I'll agree with Mark when he says that the X-Files is looking pretty good again now. The latter two seasons have been pretty decent. Now, it's IMHO nowhere near the quality of XF back in the day, mind you. Since Doggett came in and the roles are reversed (with Scully as the believer and Doggett as the skeptic), it's gotten more interesting. I wanna see what happens with Scully's telekinetic child. ;-) But yeah - the end of Duchovny's run was truly abysmal, although even that period produced some interesting episodes. ===== Soraidh, Andrew D. Gable empirion33@hotmail.com, empirion33@yahoo.com THE CRYPTOWEB v3.0: http://come.to/the_cryptoweb/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Andrew Gable [empirion33@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:55 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: [DG] My Thoughts on the Cult of Transcendence I don't really mind the fact that the sourcebook's not available yet; as I see it, everyone's favorite Swedes are kind of the Illuminati of the DG world. And any good conspiracy theorist will tell you, the Illuminati are behind EVERYTHING; as I see it, make up whatever details you want. After all, an Illuminati sourcebook is just plain unneeded... ===== Soraidh, Andrew D. Gable empirion33@hotmail.com, empirion33@yahoo.com THE CRYPTOWEB v3.0: http://come.to/the_cryptoweb/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of David Rodemaker [dar@horusinc.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:11 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: RE: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? In CP term it is follows: 3rnd Burst gets a +3. Random # of shots hit. Direct Autofire gets a +1 to het per 10rnds at short range, -1 at all other ranges. In addition, you hit with 1rnd for each number you exceed the 'to hit' number by. Supressive fire works different. Take the total number of rounds that are put into the area and divide it by the number of meters (by arc) that the area is. That is the number that an 'Athletics' roll is needs to meet or exceed in order to evade the shots. It you are fail the Athletics roll, then you are hit by 1-6 rnds. David Rodemaker > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > [mailto:owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com]On Behalf Of The Man in Black > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:25 PM > To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com > Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? > > > From: Shane Mclean > > >The thing is, you have to look at the fact there are really two types > of > >auto fire - autofire for accuracy (hose to hit) and autofire for effect > (put > >'em all on target). We really need a/f rules that allow either choice. > I > >know Cyberpunk has rules about them, but can't remember off the top of > my > >head how they work. It's something like autofire for accuracy boosts > your > >chance of getting one or two rounds on target, and autofire for effect > gives > >you a really low chance of getting a lot on target. > > > GURPS covers this adequately. There is a recoil penalty applied to > consecutive groups of 4 bullets, or groups of 20 for weapons with very > high rates of fire. The recoil penalties are doubled if you're too > scrawy and weak to match the weapons minimum ST, and there is a bonus to > aiming for successive groups (the garden hose effect), and there are > rules for suppressive fire in an area of effect. > > In actual play, I rarely use all the Advanced Combat rules, just tell em > to make a Guns roll and then the monster eats em. > > The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins > Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum > http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] > http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > > _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@eircom.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 5:06 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Newage > Saint Patrick expels the snakes from Ireland. Before that, the land > just won't become Christian. > Actually, technically its not Christian due to him, since there is a somewhat obscure quasi-Christian entity who has a name that sounds made up (something like Triongrfar Triongle) who is a 30 foot gold giant who "noticed the blackening of the sky due to the Crucifixion". But this is going somewhat off the point. Question is, in Voodoo Dhamballah Whedo is a snake and ultimate being, so how are the two notions, of snakes=evil and Big Snake=Good, reconciled? Bar the idea of same gods, new logos. - The Nuge (and happy new year too) _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Nuge [jessthecatasc@eircom.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 5:20 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] My Thoughts on the Cult of Transcendence > I don't really mind the fact that the sourcebook's not > available yet; as I see it, everyone's favorite Swedes > are kind of the Illuminati of the DG world. And any > good conspiracy theorist will tell you, the Illuminati > are behind EVERYTHING; as I see it, make up whatever > details you want. After all, an Illuminati sourcebook > is just plain unneeded... I've has something of an idea called the Cult of Self, which to be honest due to the lack of specifics on the COT, could be the same or different: something on the lines of a Fight-Club type subcultural cult, with a very obvious manifestation of Nyarlathotep going around cities in the West, telling nobodies why they are unspecial and irrelevant, destroying their notions of self-identity, only for them, lacking any form of moral or social doctrinal code or dogma of action, turn into a nice cult of Nyarlathotep, albeit one without religious notions and more a base self-awareness ideals and anarchic tendencies. Again, Fight-Cult if you want to call it that, but without the specific medium of violence: more Nyarlathotep coming up to you while you're somewhat enjoying lukewarm milky tea in a cafe in Newcastle on a damp Thursday afternoon in the form of an unremarkable but charismatic person, who asks "is anyone sitting there?" (which there never is, due to the quagmire and needless anguish of relationships in this meaningless cosmos), he sits, pulls out a paper, goes "tut tut" about some article on unemployment, and proceeds on his rant, which invisibly mutates into a mindwarping flux which consumes the superego of the individual cornered. A cult of quasi-intellectualism, social ennui and apathy with no strict form of ideology bar the notion of the irrelevance of the human individual. Thus, a nice smattering of reasonably competent and entirely mallable minions, one or two of which might transcend to Godhood. - The Nuge The Captain is a One-Armed Dwarf He's throwing dice along the wharf In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of H. Todd J. Moore [htoddjmoore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 5:44 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] New automatic weapons rules? I think I have some recollection of that campaign, there, Jim. ;P Todd wrote: > Heh. I happen to remember a time when a certain > fellow player dropped a > shoggoth using a railgun. After that, the Keeper > realized he'd given that > fellow a bit too much leeway, and gave him some > nasty derangements that > dealt with his inventions, and his need to be > surrounded by them. > > IIRC, when we pried him out of the body armor, said > character was a wasted, > grimy yellow thing who was skinny as a rail, > allergic to sunlight and went > fetal on contact with air. I think he spent the rest > of the campaign > huddling under a wide-brimmed hat and mewling... > > If guns get to be a problem, give your investigators > problems with guns! : > )_ moo hoo ha ha > > J. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > http://mobile.msn.com > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of H. Todd J. Moore [htoddjmoore@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:00 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] auto weapons and TS Those games may have been crap, but I recall having a lot of un playing them. Built as an "espionage" system, it served more along the lines of a fire-arm combat system, and that's all. But with that... damn it was fun. Todd > > Another idea I found was using the automatic fire > rules from Top Secret > and > > Top Secret:SI by TSR. The games were mostly crap, > but had an interesting > > combat idea. For each bullet fired beyond the > first, a 10% penalty is > > applied to each subsequent shot. For each round > of un-interrupted full > > automatic fire, more penalties apply. With a > little tweaking, it works > well > > in CoC/DG and doesn't slow down combat too much. > I especially like > the -10 > > for submachineguns. A short-barreled full auto > 9mm is very hard to > control. > > I haven't had the opportunity to fire a full > auto 7.62 Nato, but imagine > > it would be just as difficult. > > The thing is, you have to look at the fact there are > really two types of > auto fire - autofire for accuracy (hose to hit) and > autofire for effect (put > 'em all on target). We really need a/f rules that > allow either choice. I > know Cyberpunk has rules about them, but can't > remember off the top of my > head how they work. It's something like autofire > for accuracy boosts your > chance of getting one or two rounds on target, and > autofire for effect gives > you a really low chance of getting a lot on target. > > For DG/CoC it could work something like this: > > (roll for the rounds as a group, or in groups of > five with penalties/bonuses > accumulating - the latter my prefered) > > Accuracy: > +5% per round fired (max +25% or > so), roll 1d3 to determine > rounds on target (irrespective of number fired - > that only adds to hit > chance). > > Effect: > -5% per round fired (-50% tops - I > impose a penalty limit as > you aren't going to just let the weapon jump about, > you are going to try and > control it), roll % dice for the number hit as a % > of the number fired - > keep it to groups of 5 for ease of math). > > Take care, > > Shane > > _______________________________________ > The Delta Green Mailing List > http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:41 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] My Thoughts on the Cult of Transcendence From: Andrew Gable >I don't really mind the fact that the sourcebook's not >available yet; as I see it, everyone's favorite Swedes >are kind of the Illuminati of the DG world. And any >good conspiracy theorist will tell you, the Illuminati >are behind EVERYTHING; as I see it, make up whatever >details you want. After all, an Illuminati sourcebook >is just plain unneeded... http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Illuminati/ You mean it's been done. But that aside, the Cult of Transendence seems to be what I originally had in mind for the Fate early in Delta Green's history: The Cult of Cults. In other words, it is a cult whose rank and file members all lead or infiltrate other organizations, and they are led by Nyarlathotep directly. The little info we have on them states "It controls a bewildering number of front organizations in America, dedicated to reducing the US populace (and then the world) to a state of sociopathy through a variety of means to pave the way for the End Times." In other words, take ANY cult or organization (Purity, Genetic Agricultural Products, The Dire Group, Tiger Transit, The Karotechia, the Fate, Delta Green) and then initiate a member or two into the Cult of Trancendence. This serves as the first stage to gaining control of the group, as part of the CoT's network. Information gathering "moles" in all manner of mythos related (or even unrelated) organzations will then proceed to recruit more CoT members into their respective cults and consolodate power within them. I'd say that the Cult needs a much more international focus, as we have no real European villainous conspiracy to fight. Perhaps read the above quote as "...controls a bewildering number of front organizations in Europe and the rest of the World". Until the Cult of Trancendance is actually published, the safest course will be to assume that most major mythos cults have a few Cult of Transcendance members, and some are entirely controlled by them. It would be extremely difficult to investigate a "shadow cabinet" like this as it's mere existence would be nearly impossible to discover. So a few hints at the illuminati (easily recognized and dismissed as an inside joke if you have hardcore GURPS players) while developing the public front organizations should do us fine for now. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of Julian Breen [jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 7:38 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Twilight Zone The Lizard King wrote: > "He came in, fell asleep on the couch, then jumped through the window." Ah, "Perchance to Dream". That one in particular stuck in my mind as a youth. Creepy dream sequences and atmosphere reminiscent of Ealing's "Dead of Night". -- Julian Breen -- Still fears somebody _looking back_ from his rear view mirror... _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 11:02 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Twilight Zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Breen" > The Lizard King wrote: > > > "He came in, fell asleep on the couch, then jumped through the window." > > Ah, "Perchance to Dream". That one in particular stuck in my mind as a > youth. > > Creepy dream sequences and atmosphere reminiscent of Ealing's "Dead of > Night". Incidentally, the midway and roller coaster in that episode no longer exist. They were both at "the Pike" which was like a carny that put down roots and stayed in Long Beach. Across the street from the locker clubs (back when there was a big honkin' Navy Base in Long Beach) and tattoo parlors and all the accoutrements of a Navy town was this permanent carnival by the ocean. The roller coaster was briefly the biggest of its time. Being one of the cool old wooden ones, it creaked and shook theatrically, and when combined with knowledge of its age and the no-doubt sterling nature of inspection and upkeep it gave you a great scary ride. I loved that thing. As time marched on and the Navy base was scaled down and eventually closed, the Pike reinvented itself by chasing away the prostitutes and tattoo parlors (well, most of them) and calling itself Queen's Park. It tried fencing itself in to guarantee safety from the mean streets and charged at the gate. It closed down and spent a few years as a creepy empty lot on the ocean. Then all the waterfront real estate changed hands and got spruced up. Now (The horror! The horror!) there is a marina and an artificial shopping\eating area where the office workers come for Happy Hour at the ubiquitous chain watering\eating hole. Buffalo wings guaranteed not to distress the most pedestrian palate and enormous overpriced sweet drinks in souvenir glasses. Gag. Bring back the hookers and sailors and 3-card monte dealers. Give me the tattoo parlors and the grifters and the threat of death by collapsing roller coaster. Sex and death and risk, baby. Now it's a cluster of posturing suits with a snoot-full getting loud and sweaty and too familiar with the waitress before going home to whatever woman is putting up with them at the moment. Or maybe they'll spot a temp secretary depressed enough over the recent death of her cat to crave a little contact and be willing to see them in a flattering light if the Mudslides keep coming. Love is indistinguishable from large quantities of chocolate, especially when mixed with alcohol. I dunno. The whores and sailors seemed cleaner somehow, and the corndogs had more flavor. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of R W [moonduck@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 11:21 PM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Newage >But this is going somewhat off the point. Question is, in Voodoo Dhamballah >Whedo is a snake and ultimate being, so how are the two notions, of >snakes=evil and Big Snake=Good, reconciled? Bar the idea of same gods, new >logos. Easily, marketing. Basically, you have the early Catholic Church, you have pagans nearby. The Church wants to convert said pagans. They do so by selling their faith, subsuming the pagan holy days, then villifying the pagans deities. Not being harsh on religion, just recounting its' history. The snake was right important to the Egyptians, thus its' symbology was important to the Jews. Then again, I simply cannot think of a faith that held cephalopods as supreme... R Cell -- _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of AC M [sarnath7@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:02 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Auto Weapons w/ TS I forgot about the suppressive cover fire vs. shoot to hit auto fire. I like whomever's suggestion it was (sorry, deleted the email) about the max penalty of 50%. It is true that you retain some amount of control. Oh, by all means, TS and TS/SI were lots of fun. My problem with them, and as you noted, it was basically a combat game, and characters and non-combat skills seemed an afterthought. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the James Bond game existed, where combat was more painful for the players than the characters. For a pure combat system with no messy non-combat skills to clutter up a character sheet, Boot Hill 2E is the best. If the players think DG/Coc is not lethal enough, mix in some Boot Hill action. It was the only game I have ever played that caused more characters to die than CoC. ACM >Those games may have been crap, but I recall having a >lot of un playing them. Built as an "espionage" >system, it served more along the lines of a fire-arm >combat system, and that's all. But with that... damn >it was fun. > >Todd _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Man in Black [scrogginl001@hawaii.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:06 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] Newage From: R W >Then again, I simply cannot think of a faith that held cephalopods as >supreme... "Kanaloa is the old Polynesian sea god of death, darkness, water, and squid... ...Kanaloa is associated with the Christian devil. His name is associated with various legends of strife against Kane in which Kanaloa and his spirits rebel and are sent down to the underworld. In the legend of Hawaii-loa belonging to the Kumu-honua epic account of the Kane tradition, Kanaloa is the leader of the first company of spirits placed on earth after earth was separated from heaven. These spirits are “spit out by the gods.” They rebel, lead by Kanaloa, because they are not allowed to drink awa, but are defeated and cast down to the underworld, where Kanaloa, otherwise known as Milu, becomes ruler of the dead. The legend places Kane and Kanaloa in opposition as the good and evil wishers of mankind." http://www.uwgb.edu/galta/mrr/hawaii/gods.htm The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum http://home.hawaii.rr.com/maninblack/seven/ : [SPIRAL CHALICE] http://www.emerald-hammer.org/ : [EMERALD HAMMER] _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/ From: owner-deltagreen@revolutionsf.com on behalf of The Lizard King [lizardrex@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 12:41 AM To: deltagreen@revolutionsf.com Subject: Re: [DG] My Thoughts on the Cult of Transcendence ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Gable" > I don't really mind the fact that the sourcebook's not > available yet; as I see it, everyone's favorite Swedes > are kind of the Illuminati of the DG world. And any > good conspiracy theorist will tell you, the Illuminati > are behind EVERYTHING; as I see it, make up whatever > details you want. After all, an Illuminati sourcebook > is just plain unneeded... To show something is to diminish it. The Illuminati were more fun to think about before there was anything available at the chain bookstore about them. Back when hardly anyone heard of them and they were the mysterious force behind everything rather than a generic term for conspiracies. One approach to a Cult of Transcendence sourcebook might be to never ever show the man behind the curtain. Don't specify a GOO patron, don't reveal it's true history. Or reveal several mutually exclusive histories and never indicate which one is canon. Keep it a mystery. Instead, present tales and rumors of the COT, many of them contradictory. Present a timeline and history that is impossible, but has many points that seem probable and seem to explain some questionable mundane history. Take the venerable onion layers and make a "blossom." With a selection of dipping sauces. Bring back the mysterious "Illuminati" that designed the dollar bill *and* the Russian Revolution while controlling the Rothschilds and Gnomes of Zurich and thoroughly infiltrating the intelligence community and immanentizing the Eschaton while running the Mafia. From the Ivy League. With Masons. Descended from the Adepts of Atlantis and the many bastard children of Adam Weishaupt after he replaced George Washington. The MiBs "cult of cults" would be one interpretation, but so would a militant K'n-yan or a cabal of Serpent Men who've replaced world leaders. Or it could all be a George Kaplan construct by some savvy human conspirators; a Keyser Soze to haunt the dreams of would-be shakers and movers. Maybe they are the Spiders *and* the Snakes. Or the Brightly Shining. Maybe all of those things are true, but the underlying truth is *really* mind-blowing. Maybe when you finally understand the Cult of Transcendence you realize that you are a member and key player in the *real* conspiracy. Look, it all falls into place when you can see how it all interconnects. 2D paper won't properly show how the structure works, that's why I've set up this room for the flowchart and table of organization. I've got a system of colored threads to distinguish between direct connections, inherited connections, virtual connections and undetectable connections through remote influence. Careful there, you almost severed the link between the Second Russian Revolution and Wall Street. Oh yes, and there are these threads indicating facets of the conspiracy controlled from the future. When you start analyzing this you are through the looking glass in no time. "No time," get it? Cause and effect is just a local phenomenon in the Big Picture. Fact and fiction depend on the POV or who got to write the history books. "This is the west, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." John Ford knew, which means Kurosawa saw it too. Really *good* fiction is stronger than fact. Who's more real to the world, Sherlock Holmes or Leon Trotsky? Stalin was a Holmes fan you know. Where was I? Oh yes, the threads -- watch it! Now you've done it. Damn. Did you see where that broke loose? It's a long one, so it must go to one of those up by the ceiling. Hmmm. Probably from that big knot over the Templars. Or the Carbonari. Shit. What's at the other end? Oh, the Rotarians. Attach it to that big knot on the Order of the Garter. No, don't *tie* it, use a pin. Here, I'll get the stepladder. You can't make any of the connections permanent because of the reality quakes. I've got a closet full of conspiracies that got cut loose by the last one. Well, the last one I remember at least. It's complicated. Man, I coulda shit when I found the Vatican in *Rome*. Yeah, Rome, not Reme. And this time Spartacus was a slave and Krakatoa is west of Java and Emperor Norton was a street person and Roy Hobbs was fictional. Huh? Yeah, I tried putting all of it in the computer, but the AIs in the future kept rewriting and reconnecting the facts to suit them. Fuckers. I'll stick to string and 3x5 cards and things that don't depend on quantum phenomena. Wipe the pin on one of those lodestones before you use it, it helps to confuse the Editors and Revisionists. Spiders and Snakes have nothing on those fuckers. Where's the Cult of Transcendence? Look around you. They manufacture 3x5 cards and cornered the market in colored thread. You know, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he was invented by Geraldo Rivera for sweeps week. Mark McFadden _______________________________________ The Delta Green Mailing List http://www.delta-green.com/comint/dgml/